The "Fruits" of Affirmative Action

[DRF]

Look at the "great" citizens of our country affirmative action has produced:

Michele Obama - never proud of her country
Sonia Sotomayor - Admits herself that she was really not qualified to be in Princeton, doesn't understand the role of the Superement Court and a clear racist
Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. - A racist, just like his good friend, Obama

So glad my parents spent their tax dollars on these three!

[Greyclouds]

You are about 10% right, and not in the way that you think:

Educational segregation of the poor from the rich is something that needs to be stopped. Affirmative action is simply a roughshod bandaid meant to cover up the real issue which is that inequality of education potential of the rich vs. the poor.

"Legacy" status allowed my cousins to go to Yale. One now has a job at J.P. Morgan fresh out of college, a house bought for her by my uncle and is getting paid for completing her MBA while working.

Please note: race has little to do with the issue, but race has been the wool pulled over our eyes by such a program. Truly, it is the poor against the rich and equal education is the means by which we can end such bias. So, when you point to the "fruits" of the program, are you denying the accomplishments of the above individuals despite the bias of the system against them? Truly, their own abilities promoted them to such lofty status; affirmative action simply reduced the steep grade of the playing field.

Had they not been born into such desperate financial situations, do you not think they would have excelled regardless?

[ThrowCop]

Clarence Thomas...

[Greyclouds]

Clarence Thomas...

Yes, very odd that the OP does not mention him...

Also Edward P. Jones who was Thomas' classmate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_P._Jones

[DRF]

You are about 10% right, and not in the way that you think:

Educational segregation of the poor from the rich is something that needs to be stopped. Affirmative action is simply a roughshod bandaid meant to cover up the real issue which is that inequality of education potential of the rich vs. the poor.

"Legacy" status allowed my cousins to go to Yale. One now has a job at J.P. Morgan fresh out of college, a house bought for her by my uncle and is getting paid for completing her MBA while working.

Please note: race has little to do with the issue, but race has been the wool pulled over our eyes by such a program. Truly, it is the poor against the rich and equal education is the means by which we can end such bias. So, when you point to the "fruits" of the program, are you denying the accomplishments of the above individuals despite the bias of the system against them? Truly, their own abilities promoted them to such lofty status; affirmative action simply reduced the steep grade of the playing field.

Had they not been born into such desperate financial situations, do you not think they would have excelled regardless?


How do children get "born into desperate financial situation"? Here is a novel idea. Take responsibilty for yourself and if you are in a "desperate financial situation" don't have any children. Don't expect me to have to work twice as hard to pay for your children.

My family came here in a desperate financial sitation. However, they did not look for handouts or free rides, they worked hard. That is something everyone can do.

Choosing one college applicant over another due to race is RACISM.
Promoting one employee over another due to fill a racial quote is RACISM.

And don't you wonder why the three I mentioned are not appreciative of a country that gave them a boost above their couterparts? No, they have grown up to be RACISTS.

[Greyclouds]

How do children get "born into desperate financial situation"? Here is a novel idea. Take responsibilty for yourself and if you are in a "desperate financial situation" don't have any children. Don't expect me to have to work twice as hard to pay for your children.

My family came here in a desperate financial sitation. However, they did not look for handouts or free rides, they worked hard. That is something everyone can do.

Really? Well, did they receive ANY government assistance? Just how poor were they then?


Choosing one college applicant over another due to race is RACISM.
Promoting one employee over another due to fill a racial quote is RACISM.

Yes, but also failing to correct inner-city educational shortfalls is discriminatory as well. And note: I am not accusing you of discrimination, but rather our (as a nation) tendency to fail to adequately fund public schools in poor areas of the country.

Private investment in public schools in affluent areas furthers this discrepancy.


And don't you wonder why the three I mentioned are not appreciative of a country that gave them a boost above their couterparts? No, they have grown up to be RACISTS.

Do you know them personally? I think labels of racism are prone to inaccuracy when uttered by people who do not know the person in question.

[DRF]

Yes, but also failing to correct inner-city educational shortfalls is discriminatory as well. And note: I am not accusing you of discrimination, but rather our (as a nation) tendency to fail to adequately fund public schools in poor areas of the country.

At what point do people start taking responsiblity for themselves? Throwing money at inner-city schools has not solved the problem and will not solve the problem. The people there need to make the change. Children need strong families to succeed.

Here is a prime example, the next school district over from where I live is made up predominantly of minorities, however, their school taxes are higher than mine. Yet with the extra money, this district is still failing. How come? I know teen pregnancy is an issue there.


Do you know them personally? I think labels of racism are prone to inaccuracy when uttered by people who do not know the person in question.

Do you not know that Michele and Barack sat in Rev. Wright's church for 20 year? Did you miss the "..it's time for white to make right" in Obama's inauguration?

Sotomayor - did you not hear are Latina comment that she stated over and over during many speeches?

Gates - Anyone who uses the word 'Whitey" seems to fall under the heading of "racist".

[Vaard]

clarence thomas, condi rice and colin powell are all "victims" of affirmative action......

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Affirmative Action quickly becomes a slippery slope conversation depending what side of the grassy knoll your looking at. The shot is still fired...but the witnesses all point in different direction as to the 'shot's origins. ;)

The three people that the OP mentioned may or may not have benefited from the many programs in affirmative action. We do know Judge Sonyamayor did benefit due to her status to be invited to go to school where most people could never dream of affording to send their kids to school. The other's...who knows what benignity or no benefit they may have received.

The larger picture here is as Greyclouds broke it down in this one area: The have's verses the have not's. It is that simple folks. Not all minorities are poor. Not all Caucasians are rich. It's the lie America told herself when affirmative action first hit..the lie of minorites are unable to do for themselves without a helping hand. It was a slap in the face to many proud minorities who more then held their own..and instead of equaling the playing field..it put them there on curry of favor of race...instead of what they should have been there for..effort/hard work/smarts. :snooty:

Affirmative Action today has turned into a hydra monster...you can slay a head..and three more pop up in it's place. Now with President Obama in place...I believe many of those heads will simply fall away into myth..or at least I have hopes of that happening. The few that remain should be re-identified as programs for those of promise that simply don't have money to make that promise bloom. But..that would be regardless of color..which won't set well with the NAACP.

~Mysty

[Andrew_980]

It creates a racial seperation that breeds a us vs them mentality that will never let racism die.

[croupier101]

Thomas Sowell, JC Watts, Michael Steele, Lynn Swann.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Thomas Sowell, JC Watts, Michael Steele, Lynn Swann.

I'm sure we could name some very important and influential people that could be applied to the topic of Affirmative Action..I have no doubt that list would be long. Would those people have succeeded anyway without Affirmative Action? Hmmmm...the human spirit is indomitable...we can concur anything we set our minds too. Right?

The real question is...Should Affirmative action be more broad based and cover simply those who are classified as have nots? Not by race...but by need. Wouldn't that loose the entire debate of race as it pertains too Affirmative Action? I think it would.

~Mysty

[captusa]

You are about 10% right, and not in the way that you think:

Educational segregation of the poor from the rich is something that needs to be stopped. Affirmative action is simply a roughshod bandaid meant to cover up the real issue which is that inequality of education potential of the rich vs. the poor.

"Legacy" status allowed my cousins to go to Yale. One now has a job at J.P. Morgan fresh out of college, a house bought for her by my uncle and is getting paid for completing her MBA while working.

Please note: race has little to do with the issue, but race has been the wool pulled over our eyes by such a program. Truly, it is the poor against the rich and equal education is the means by which we can end such bias. So, when you point to the "fruits" of the program, are you denying the accomplishments of the above individuals despite the bias of the system against them? Truly, their own abilities promoted them to such lofty status; affirmative action simply reduced the steep grade of the playing field.

Had they not been born into such desperate financial situations, do you not think they would have excelled regardless?

DRF's opinions aside when Bush discussed ending affirmative action the first to defend affirmative action were Condalisa Rice and Colin Powell.
You mentioned your cousins are successful because of Legacy status(aka Affirmative action).
I assumethey got in Yale through affirmative action. Their success impies they did not get through legacy.
I don't know about Prescott Bush but one might guess Legacy treatment helped George Bush I get through Yale and one can not imagine how George Bush II could have gotten through Yale without it.

[RickRhetoric]

America's number one social national priority and goal must continue to be that of total racial diversity and multiculturalism at any cost.

Reverse discrimination (affirmative action) will be needed and federally mandated until that noble goal is accomplished.

Thank you