Dearborn School Fired Coach over Religion? [Archive]

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 8:03 am

We should look into this a little more and find out if there is even one iota of truth about this. Reading the article in WND started alarm bells ringing for me.A high school hall-of-fame and Christian wrestling coach in Dearborn, Mich., claims he was muscled out of his long-tenured coaching job by the school's principal, a devout Muslim, because the administrator was furious over a student wrestler who had converted to Christianity from Islam.

Gerald Marsazalek has coached wrestling for 35 years at Dearborn Public Schools, amassing more than 450 wins and, in addition to being added to the Michigan High School Athletic Association Hall of Fame, was named "Sportsman of the Year" by the All-American Athletic Association.

Despite Marsazalek's success, however, Principal Imad Fadlallah of Dearborn's Fordson High School ordered the administration not to renew the coach's contract, allegedly in retaliation over the student's conversion and to continue a campaign of flushing Christianity out of the school.

"We are getting a glimpse of what happens when Muslims who refuse to accept American values and principles gain political power in an American community," said Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, which is representing Marsazalek. "Failure to renew coach Marszalek's contract had nothing to do with wrestling and everything to do with religion." Link to article: Dearborn (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105227)

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 8:54 am

Courtesy of the Thomas Moore Law Center (http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=19):
July 27, 2009

Lawsuit Filed Against Dearborn Schools and Muslim Principal Over Firing of Christian Wrestling Coach

http://www.thomasmore.org/graphics/sb_thomasmore/imag314.jpgANN ARBOR, MI – The Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan announced today that a federal lawsuit has been filed against a Dearborn, Michigan high school, Fordson High School, and its Muslim principal, Imad Fadlallah, over the firing of Gerald Marszalek because of Marszalek’s connection to a Christian volunteer coach.

Marszalek, who had coached wrestling for 35 years, had achieved a legendary status in the wrestling community. Earning more that 450 wins, and sending numerous wrestlers to various collegiate programs, he was elected to the Michigan High School Athletic Association Hall of Fame, named “Sportsman of the Year” by the All-American Athletic Association. Marszalek’s contract was not renewed because of his association with a Christian volunteer coach, Trey Hancock, who the principal accused of converting a Muslim student to Christianity during a summer camp not connected with the school or Coach Marszalek.

The lawsuit was filed by the Thomas More Law Center, and a private litigation firm of Cummings, McClorey, Davis & Acho, P.L.C. located in Livonia, Michigan. [http://www.thomasmore.org/graphics/sb_thomasmore/imag96.gifRead Complaint here (http://www.thomasmore.org/downloads/sb_thomasmore/FadlallahandDearbornSchoolsComplaint.pdf).]

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center commented, “We are getting a glimpse of what happens when Muslims who refuse to accept American values and principles gain political power in an American community. Failure to renew coach Marszalek’s contract had nothing to do with wrestling and everything to do with religion.”

The city of Dearborn is one of the most densely populated Muslim communities in the United States. An estimated 30,000 of its 98,000 residents are Muslims. It is estimated that 80% of the student population of Fordson High School is Arabic and most of those are Muslims. According to the lawsuit, Fadlallah has publically stated that he sees Fordson High School as a Muslim school.

Trouble started between Fadlallah and Marszalek when one of Coach Marszalek’s assistant coaches, Trey Hancock, held a summer wrestling camp in which a Muslim camper converted to Christianity. Principal Fadlallah was so upset by the conversion that he punched the student and informed him he had disgraced his family. Fadlallah also ordered Coach Marszalek to ban the assistant coach from the high school and all wrestling events. However, since the assistant had a son that wrestled on the team, this was an impossible order to enforce. After the wrestling season was over, Coach Marszalek was not allowed to reapply to his coaching position—in clear violation of Union rules. Unfortunately for Coach Marszalek, his teacher’s Union did not help him in his hour of need.

The lawsuit claims violations of both the U.S. and Michigan constitutions and statutes including Michigan’s Elliot-Larsen Civil Rights. Coach Marszalek is seeking his back pay, injunctive and declaratory relief, damages, and to be reinstated as coach of the wrestling team.

tropicseal

July 28th, 2009, 8:54 am

We should look into this a little more and find out if there is even one iota of truth about this. Reading the article in WND started alarm bells ringing for me.Link to article: Dearborn (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105227)
__________________________________________________ ____________

Is anyone surprised at this...? Just more of the same acedemic arrogance and racism by the leftist liberals. Under any other scenario this would be an affront and considered illegal at the very least. Have a look at London, England and what they have allowed to happen to their city's population based on PC. Wake up normal people !

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 9:00 am

Very interesting

The lawsuit was filed by the Thomas More Law Center, and a private litigation firm of Cummings, McClorey, Davis & Acho, P.L.C. located in Livonia, Michigan.

[http://www.thomasmore.org/graphics/sb_thomasmore/imag96.gifRead Complaint here (http://www.thomasmore.org/downloads/sb_thomasmore/FadlallahandDearbornSchoolsComplaint.pdf).]

Adlerian Thinker

July 28th, 2009, 9:10 am

Rut roh. This can not end well.

rgori4

July 28th, 2009, 9:27 am

All the more reason why we should close off our borders and not allow aliens into our country.

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 9:38 am

Perhaps it will not end well.

I recommend that President Obama invite Imad Fadlallah and Gerald Marszalek to the White House for hot tea (beer is out of the question because for a Muslim alcohol would be offensive and is haram, حرام .)

I am sure it is a misunderstanding that our leader can smooth out.... There are correct ways to smooth tribal conflicts.... And then we have Shari'ah courts to handle the apostate student who brought dishonor on his family and islamic brothers and sisters.....

See It Clearly

July 28th, 2009, 9:41 am

I just heard the bowing one respond to this case, he said, "While I don't know all of the facts in this case, the Coach acted stupidly."

Sorry, I had to inject a little humor into this. If this is true it is a sad sad case and a sad commentary on America.

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 9:42 am

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 9:45 am

Perhaps the President could invite them to the Whitehouse....

See It Clearly

July 28th, 2009, 9:55 am

If all the "aliens" went home, there would not be many left in America. I suspect that when we became a politically correct country and stopped assimilating immigrants into American culture (or perhaps we have lost our Judeo - Christian roots) we would fall apart like Rome did.

We are coming to an end of the late great United States of America.

I don't think the "aliens" are the problem. There is just something about the illegal part that doesn't sit right. :think:

It is interesting how the more "progressive" we get the worse things seem to be. I posted a thread about the different definitions of the word "politics" from 1913 to the present. Check these definitions out: http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1567791

When government started to get away from ethical and moral decision making it is easy to start tracking the decline.

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 10:02 am

I do not think aliens are a problem and in this case illegal aliens are definitely not an issue.

The principal is legal, the coach is legal, the assistant coach and I would venture to say the apostate student who converted to Christianity is legal.

Political correctness has gotten us to the point of reverse discrimination where one can invoke allah and talk about Muhammad, but, cannot invoke the Judeo - Christian concept of G-d or the name of Jesus.

Progressivism and liberalism are leading us down a slippery slope. Soft Jihad is at the root of skipping down that slippery slope.

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 10:09 am

Courtesy of Human Events Online: A Soft Jihad Grows in Brooklyn , 10/25/2007 (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23020)

Most Americans, except for die-hard liberals and leftists, are prepared to fight the terrorism that we call the “hard jihad.” The left, though, seems unwilling to fight the “soft jihad” assaulting our culture and way of life. Many Americans who in the past were proud of that unique American penchant for being outspoken and truthful are now being cowed into silence by being called a racist when they are trying to protect themselves and the institutions they admire and love from deliberate damage and obliteration.Nothing has changed, progressivism has gotten worse.....

See It Clearly

July 28th, 2009, 10:18 am

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 10:28 am

:clap: Liberalism is a mental disorder. I feel like I am on a train with a window seat to destruction. I can see the washed out bridge up ahead.

I would like to share a quote from a great blues musician, "Not a day goes by that a man doesn't have to choose between what he wants and what he's afraid to lose" - Robert Cray

Somehow liberalism has lost touch with that reality.

jsmithers24

July 28th, 2009, 11:04 am

Isn't it amazing? If it were the other way around, (Christian becoming Muslim), no one would have any ground to stand on. It would be a "who cares" story. But, because the kid is a Christian now, it's a bad thing? Come on America. What happened to freedom of religion. It's now freedom of religion... except Christianity.

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 11:10 am

(Sarcasm on) Any time a believer leaves Islam it is a bad thing. It is forbidden and one must pay the price for apostasy. And the infidels who filled his head full of Kafir notions, well, they must pay as well.

The libs are going to have a hard time with freedom from religion when Shari'ah Law is introduced nation wide.

allah willing, in a few years it will iron itself out... (sarcasm off)

jimjames418

July 28th, 2009, 1:13 pm

There was a thread about this school district back in 2006 when the flap over the school not allowing the father in the building or allowing him to attend his sons athletic events, even at away events. There was a law suit filed in that case also.

Does anyone know what the results of that was?

ogibillm

July 28th, 2009, 1:18 pm

i doubt we have the full story. and as much as people were complaining about 'playing the race card' i'm inclined to believe that this may be a case of someone 'playing the religion card'

jimjames418

July 28th, 2009, 1:23 pm

i doubt we have the full story. and as much as people were complaining about 'playing the race card' i'm inclined to believe that this may be a case of someone 'playing the religion card'
Having worked as an administrator in the K-12 educational system in Michigan for 25+ years, I am inclined to go with the coach on this one. I think you will find, if it comes to that, that the principal is not really qualified to hold that job. :wall:

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 5:10 pm

ogibillm

July 28th, 2009, 5:14 pm

Having worked as an administrator in the K-12 educational system in Michigan for 25+ years, I am inclined to go with the coach on this one. I think you will find, if it comes to that, that the principal is not really qualified to hold that job. :wall:

what makes you believe that?

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 5:34 pm

What makes you believe what you believe happened?

jimjames418

July 28th, 2009, 5:42 pm

what makes you believe that?
Well, first thing is that he does not have any degree in education, or any training in the field either. I believe his educational background is in engineering.

The Dearborn teachers are afraid of this principal. Because he has threatened them if they report any of what he does. But it gets out anyway.

On 9/11/2001 he was the principal at an elementary school in the district. He refused to lower the flag to half mast as ordered and instead took the flag down and refused to fly it again. He refuses to let the teachers even talk about the events of 9/11 and any teacher who does is down graded on their eveluation.

Dearborn, being one of the wealthist districts in the state, pays it teachers 40% over the average teacher pay in the state, so no teacher wants to lose their job, of which a poor evaluation is the first step.

jimmyc123

July 28th, 2009, 10:14 pm

Well, first thing is that he does not have any degree in education, or any training in the field either. I believe his educational background is in engineering.

The Dearborn teachers are afraid of this principal. Because he has threatened them if they report any of what he does. But it gets out anyway.

On 9/11/2001 he was the principal at an elementary school in the district. He refused to lower the flag to half mast as ordered and instead took the flag down and refused to fly it again. He refuses to let the teachers even talk about the events of 9/11 and any teacher who does is down graded on their eveluation.

Dearborn, being one of the wealthist districts in the state, pays it teachers 40% over the average teacher pay in the state, so no teacher wants to lose their job, of which a poor evaluation is the first step.

According to this article he has a Master's in Educational Leadership -

They turned to 44-year-old Imad Fadlallah -- a former principal of Stout Middle School with a bachelor's degree in industrial education and a master's in educational leadership from Eastern Michigan University.

http://www.pressandguide.com/stories/011205/loc_20050112004.shtml

Do you have a link to info about his refusing to fly the flag at half-mast? I couldn't find anything about it.

The Bos'un

July 28th, 2009, 11:18 pm

jimmyc123

July 29th, 2009, 3:26 am

Gee I have a degree in education and development, but, I would not want to bogart my way into being a principal. :))

Come on Jimmy, I would look a little more into this story. Wonder what we will find unless the PC Police step in..

The coach says he was fired for being a Christian. The school says he was fired for preaching to the students. What more is there to know?

The Bos'un

July 29th, 2009, 8:28 am

What say you, Jimmy?

jimmyc123

July 29th, 2009, 1:04 pm

What say you, Jimmy?

Hell if I know - I wasn't there. He's filed a lawsuit so additional facts should come out in the course of the proceedings.

The Bos'un

July 29th, 2009, 1:40 pm

Hell if I know - I wasn't there. He's filed a lawsuit so additional facts should come out in the course of the proceedings.
Have you read the complaint that was filed by Thomas More Law Center, and a private litigation firm of Cummings, McClorey, Davis & Acho, P.L.C.?

http://www.thomasmore.org/graphics/sb_thomasmore/imag96.gifRead Complaint here (http://www.thomasmore.org/downloads/sb_thomasmore/FadlallahandDearbornSchoolsComplaint.pdf)

The Bos'un

July 29th, 2009, 2:00 pm

I would research to whom the principal is related to and also search on the principals past statements and actions. It would be wise to learn a little more about him and the coach.

I have a feeling that the court case may be settled out of court.

If that happens then it may be that the school does not want to bear expense of a court case or not want the publicity.

There may be a lot more to the story than one knows about at present...

ogibillm

July 29th, 2009, 2:13 pm

Have you read the complaint that was filed by Thomas More Law Center, and a private litigation firm of Cummings, McClorey, Davis & Acho, P.L.C.?

http://www.thomasmore.org/graphics/sb_thomasmore/imag96.gifRead Complaint here (http://www.thomasmore.org/downloads/sb_thomasmore/FadlallahandDearbornSchoolsComplaint.pdf)

complaints are not factual accounts

ogibillm

July 29th, 2009, 2:14 pm

what kind of school districts leave firing decision up to the principal?

WorldWatcher

July 29th, 2009, 2:25 pm

what kind of school districts leave firing decision up to the principal?

Depends on what type of position you are talking about. The OP refers to "long-tenured coaching job".

I think WND got that wrong (shock of shocks), because my understanding is that most school systems do not consider Coaching positions as "tenured" positions. Teacher is a "tenured" position, Counselor is a "tenured" position, Principal is a "tenured" position. Typically coaches (and other supplemental positions) are not considered "tenured". They typically fall into the same classification of employment as secretaries, custodians, maintenance workers, etc... Often teachers are hired into these supplemental positions, positions for some duties performed outside of the requirements of the primary job. They are "Exempt" employees under the Federal Fair Labor and Standards Act (FLSA). Because they are exempt, they are not subject to overtime laws. A non exempt employee who is selected as a coach is required by law to be paid overtime for any hours worked in BOTH jobs that exceed over 40-hours per week.

Now, to get back to your question. Typically Central Office has to be involved in the termination of "tenured" teachers or those whose termination is during the middle of a contract. However, for non-contract people, frequently the Principal is the hiring and firing authority.

>>>>

ogibillm

July 29th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Depends on what type of position you are talking about. The OP refers to "long-tenured coaching job".

I think WND got that wrong (shock of shocks), because my understanding is that most school systems do not consider Coaching positions as "tenured" positions. Teacher is a "tenured" position, Counselor is a "tenured" position, Principal is a "tenured" position. Typically coaches (and other supplemental positions) are not considered "tenured". They typically fall into the same classification of employment as secretaries, custodians, maintenance workers, etc... Often teachers are hired into these supplemental positions, positions for some duties performed outside of the requirements of the primary job. They are "Exempt" employees under the Federal Fair Labor and Standards Act (FLSA). Because they are exempt, they are not subject to overtime laws. A non exempt employee who is selected as a coach is required by law to be paid overtime for any hours worked in BOTH jobs that exceed over 40-hours per week.

Now, to get back to your question. Typically Central Office has to be involved in the termination of "tenured" teachers or those whose termination is during the middle of a contract. However, for non-contract people, frequently the Principal is the hiring and firing authority.

>>>>
ah. i believed - based on the 'long tenured' that the coach was a member of the faculty as well as the coach.

and i see now his contract wasn't terminated... it just wasn't renewed.

this coach doesn't have a leg to stand on.

WorldWatcher

July 29th, 2009, 2:36 pm

ah. i believed - based on the 'long tenured' that the coach was a member of the faculty as well as the coach.

and i see now his contract wasn't terminated... it just wasn't renewed.

this coach doesn't have a leg to stand on.

No sweat, I work in Human Resources for a School system and I'm constantly bombarded with the incorrect use of terminology in terms of School employment. When we issue employment documents for the next year I frequently get calls from employees to answer questions. For example:

Caller: "My name is John Doe and I have a question about my contract."

Response: "Sure let me pull up your file and I'll see what I can do."

Pause:

Response: "Mr. Doe I see you are a Custodian at XXXXXXX High School, just to let you know you do not have a contract, you are under a Letter of Employment. How can I help you?"

Sometimes they ask what the difference is, sometime I know it goes in one ear and out the other. But I try. :angel:

>>>>

historynut

July 29th, 2009, 2:59 pm

ah. i believed - based on the 'long tenured' that the coach was a member of the faculty as well as the coach.

and i see now his contract wasn't terminated... it just wasn't renewed.

this coach doesn't have a leg to stand on.

If it was not renewed based on his religion he has a case.

Just like he would have a case if his contract was not renewed based on race.

One reason it was stated that it (the contract) was not renewed was because he did not prevent a follow coach from coming onto school property. Since the follow coach had a kid in the school and was there to sign the kid up for a program he had no right to prevent the from coming onto school property.

jimjames418

July 29th, 2009, 4:48 pm

Depends on what type of position you are talking about. The OP refers to "long-tenured coaching job".

Now, to get back to your question. Typically Central Office has to be involved in the termination of "tenured" teachers or those whose termination is during the middle of a contract. However, for non-contract people, frequently the Principal is the hiring and firing authority.

>>>>
A couple of things about Michigan, unions, and the law. The coach was working under a union contract which gave him first dibbs on the job, even over other teachers with less senority. Second, it is usually the Athletic Director who makes the recommendation to the board of education about who to approve or disapprove for a coaching position, per the union contract.

In this case the union contract called for the job opening to be posted in the high school for five days. It was not. Next, when the coach asked for an application for the job from the high school it was not given to him. When he submitted a hand written application for the job it was turned down. His name was never put before the board of education for approval or disapproval as the coach.

The Dearborn school district is a very wealthy district, always has been. They operate as if the laws of the state do not apply to them, and they always have. They don't receive state aid, they send money to the state, I believe it was just over $17 million last year.

Someone asked in an earlier post how I knew so much about this case. Because I am active in the state association of retired educational members. Since they are now retired, they are free to speak their mind without fear of losing either their senority or their retirement benefits. :think:

WorldWatcher

July 29th, 2009, 4:58 pm

A couple of things about Michigan, unions, and the law. The coach was working under a union contract which gave him first dibbs on the job, even over other teachers with less senority. Second, it is usually the Athletic Director who makes the recommendation to the board of education about who to approve or disapprove for a coaching position, per the union contract.

In this case the union contract called for the job opening to be posted in the high school for five days. It was not. Next, when the coach asked for an application for the job from the high school it was not given to him. When he submitted a hand written application for the job it was turned down. His name was never put before the board of education for approval or disapproval as the coach.

The Dearborn school district is a very wealthy district, always has been. They operate as if the laws of the state do not apply to them, and they always have. They don't receive state aid, they send money to the state, I believe it was just over $17 million last year.

Someone asked in an earlier post how I knew so much about this case. Because I am active in the state association of retired educational members. Since they are now retired, they are free to speak their mind without fear of losing either their senority or their retirement benefits. :think:

Good enough, thanks.

Here in Virginia we don't have "union contracts". As a matter of fact the union has absolutely nothing to do with contracts.

>>>>

jimjames418

July 29th, 2009, 7:37 pm

Good enough, thanks.

Here in Virginia we don't have "union contracts". As a matter of fact the union has absolutely nothing to do with contracts.

>>>>
They may not be called contracts in Virginia, but you do have educational unions. They may be called association agreements, or in some cases just "agreements", but they are treated as contracts as far as the law is concerned.

Educational Association of Arlington (http://www.aeava.org/)

WorldWatcher

July 29th, 2009, 10:11 pm

They may not be called contracts in Virginia, but you do have educational unions. They may be called association agreements, or in some cases just "agreements", but they are treated as contracts as far as the law is concerned.

Educational Association of Arlington (http://www.aeava.org/)

Oh sure we have "unions", but in the school systems around here (Tidewater area), there are no contract negotiations. The standard teaching contract provisions are actually laid out in the code by the Department of Education. The unions basically provide some fairly cheap liability insurance, representation in the event of legal action, and third party representation during a grievance process. However, in the school system that I work in there are no "contract negotiations". Representatives are welcome to request to speak at public board meetings just like any other individual or organization, but contracts are neither voted on by the union or subject to union approval.

(Makes it kind of nice as a matter of fact.)

>>>>

The Bos'un

July 29th, 2009, 11:59 pm

The main thing is we go some real stinking going on at the school. Perhpas they should call the plumbers union to clear out the **** lines.

jimjames418

July 30th, 2009, 12:16 am

The main thing is we go some real stinking going on at the school. Perhpas they should call the plumbers union to clear out the **** lines.
The board approved a new superintendent for the 2009-2010 school year. Hopefully this will ease some of the pains in that district. It all depends on how well the Arab community accepts the new superintendent.

The Arab American News (http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=Community&article=1214)
DEARBORN – On July 1, Dearborn Schools Superintendent John Artis, who's run the complex district for the last six years, will turn over the reins to Brian Whiston, who the board of education unanimously approved as Artis' replacement in May.

Artis will move on to become administrative chief operating officer of the Arab American social services group ACCESS.

markd

July 30th, 2009, 9:10 pm

All the more reason why we should close off our borders and not allow aliens into our country.Man, if we woulda started that in the 1700's we coulda cleared out all the riff raff early. :rolleyes:

The Bos'un

August 11th, 2009, 3:55 pm

Well Well Well, another freedom from religion case in the news. I posted it hear as an added news item. Care to discuss this: School officials face jail time for meal-time prayers (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=638708) A principal and an athletic director are facing criminal charges for a lunch-time prayer.

Last year, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit against Pace High School in Santa Rosa County, Florida. The ACLU claimed some teachers and administrators were endorsing religion, but the school chose to give in to the ACLU's demands rather than fight them in court.

According to the settlement, all school employees are banned from engaging in prayer or religious activities before, during, or after school hours. Now two school officials are facing criminal charges for offering meal-time prayers at an appreciation dinner for adults who had helped with a school field house project. Principal Frank Lay and athletic director Robert Freeman are scheduled to go on trial next month on criminal contempt charges. If convicted, both are subject to fines and imprisonment. Link HERE (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=638708)

jimjames418

August 11th, 2009, 7:00 pm

... all school employees are banned from engaging in prayer or religious activities before, during, or after school hours.
Good-by first admendment rights is all I can say.

chemguy

August 12th, 2009, 1:10 am

I seriously doubt they are prohibited from private prayer. Most likely they are being told they can't lead a prayer - which seems pretty reasonable due to their positions.

The Bos'un

August 12th, 2009, 1:24 am

I seriously doubt they are prohibited from private prayer. Most likely they are being told they can't lead a prayer - which seems pretty reasonable due to their positions.
I suppose that you can seriously doubt anything you want. America is still a relatively free country, unless one is a gun toting, bible carrying, Christian believing conservative. Then, it gets a little clouded.... ;)

Peace,
Bosun

The Bos'un

August 12th, 2009, 1:05 pm

:))

CaughtInTheMiddle

August 12th, 2009, 1:10 pm

i'll wait for all the facts and the court case before i'll comment.

sisyphus

August 12th, 2009, 9:22 pm

Is it time to open a thread "Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom from Religion. The difference between congressional acts and the choices of individuals."

WorldWatcher

August 12th, 2009, 9:59 pm

Is it time to open a thread "Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom from Religion. The difference between congressional acts and the choices of individuals."

Actually with the inclusion of the 14th Amendment, which according to the principal author (John Bingham), was to expand the application of the BOR, the tread would be "Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom from Religion. The difference between acts government acts and the acts of citizens in a private capacity."

Links to the actual case material haven't been provided, but I'd love to see it. Wanna bet the Court Order applied to acts in an official capacity (i.e. Principal of a School at a school function) and placed no restrictions on private acts (individual prayer before a meal).

>>>>

jimjames418

August 13th, 2009, 12:27 am

Links to the actual case material haven't been provided, but I'd love to see it. Wanna bet the Court Order applied to acts in an official capacity (i.e. Principal of a School at a school function) and placed no restrictions on private acts (individual prayer before a meal).

>>>>
The links are provided in this thread (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1592101&page=2)over in Washington Politics and in this post from that thread.

Originally Posted by Its any henna http://forums.hannity.com/firestorm/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=59234901#post59234901)
Contempt charges are what happens when a person violates a court order. Here is the court order (link here (http://www.pnj.com/assets/pdf/DP13449659.PDF)). Here is the contempt notice (link here (http://video.onset.freedom.com/nwfdn/knve2i-5contempt.pdf)). What did the school official think would happen if he violated the court order?

The Bos'un

August 13th, 2009, 2:30 am

Thanks JJ. I did not realize it was also posted in WP...

The Bos'un

August 15th, 2009, 2:09 pm

Finally Fox News has run this second story ( I suppose that you can... (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=59226511#post59226511) August 11th, 2009, 9:24 pm. ) . Took several days from when it was first released till it appeared on fox news. Glad it is getting the light of day....

Facing Jail for Prayer (http://forums.hannity.com/story/0,2933,539741,00.html)

Florida school principal and athletic director may be charged after they prayed before a meal at school event
Libs please explain jailing folks for praying in America. I am all ears... :eh:

chemguy

August 16th, 2009, 1:08 am

Three really important words in that quote: "at school event"

The Bos'un

August 16th, 2009, 7:05 pm

jimjames418

August 16th, 2009, 7:28 pm

Three really important words in that quote: "at school event"
My questions are: Was this in fact a "school event"? Where was the dinner held? Who paid for the dinners? And was attendance at the dinner mandatory?

All events held for and/or on behalf of a school are not "school events". And no matter how much the liberals wish it were so, it is not so.

historynut

August 17th, 2009, 12:06 pm

I know we cannot utter the word of G_d at a school event, or face arrest and jail time.

I bet our founding fathers are very happy with the way the country has turned out.....

PS: I wonder if we uttered "allah" or "Muhammad" if we would be subjected to the same political correctness scorn?

I don’t know about it being ok if you f we uttered "allah" or "Muhammad.

That did get me to thinking. When I went to school you could pray silently with your hands together but you could not make the sign of the cross and then pray silently with your hands together because that would show what church you went to.

They did not want you to influence anyone by showing what church you went to.