National Health Benefit ID Card

[Iggy]

Page 58 of the Health Care Rationing Plan:

‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real
time) determination of an individual’s financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility,
which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;"


You're going to get a card that tells what kind of treatment you can have and what doctor you're allowed to see and what your "financial responsibility" will be above and beyond the taxes you're going to already be paying for this atrocity.

Seriously, who wants the government to have this much control over our lives?

[Cutiepie]

Page 58 of the Health Care Rationing Plan:

‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real
time) determination of an individual’s financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility,
which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;"


You're going to get a card that tells what kind of treatment you can have and what doctor you're allowed to see and what your "financial responsibility" will be above and beyond the taxes you're going to already be paying for this atrocity.

Seriously, who wants the government to have this much control over our lives?




I won't be getting a card b/c I will NOT use GObama! the idiot's care. My ass will be sitting in jail. At least there I will have 3 meals a day, TV, A/C.

[Dr BloodMoney]

Page 58 of the Health Care Rationing Plan:

‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real
time) determination of an individual’s financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility,
which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;"


You're going to get a card that tells what kind of treatment you can have and what doctor you're allowed to see and what your "financial responsibility" will be above and beyond the taxes you're going to already be paying for this atrocity.

Seriously, who wants the government to have this much control over our lives?

The same as they do under Medicare, the same as they do with Tricare, the same as Insurance companies do under private insurance.

[Dr BloodMoney]

I won't be getting a card b/c I will NOT use GObama! the idiot's care. My ass will be sitting in jail. At least there I will have 3 meals a day, TV, A/C.

And Government medical care when your sick.....:rolleyes:

[DRS]

Page 58 of the Health Care Rationing Plan:

‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real
time) determination of an individual’s financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility,
which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;"


You're going to get a card that tells what kind of treatment you can have and what doctor you're allowed to see and what your "financial responsibility" will be above and beyond the taxes you're going to already be paying for this atrocity.

Seriously, who wants the government to have this much control over our lives?

If there are going to be different government plans then that makes sense and guess what I bet you have to be a citizen to get one also

[psyko kat]

I won't be getting a card b/c I will NOT use GObama! the idiot's care. My ass will be sitting in jail. At least there I will have 3 meals a day, TV, A/C.

3 h0ts and a c0t----that works......

[simssk]

The same as they do under Medicare, the same as they do with Tricare, the same as Insurance companies do under private insurance.

Umm no. Insurance companies and medicare do not have direct access to my financial accounts.

[Dr BloodMoney]

Umm no. Insurance companies and medicare do not have direct access to my financial accounts.

Neither does this, the card list your financial responsibility at the doctors office, i.e. co-pay or whatever concept the plan uses.

[jimjames418]

Back door way to get a national ID card.

Papers citizen? :evil:

[Iggy]

The same as they do under Medicare, the same as they do with Tricare, the same as Insurance companies do under private insurance.

This is not a private insurance company you sign up for. This is the government forcing you into their plan and dictating your doctor and treatment.

[jimjames418]

Neither does this, the card list your financial responsibility at the doctors office, i.e. co-pay or whatever concept the plan uses.
Read the other part where it says that access to your bank accounts is a requirement to transfer funds for payment. :evil:

[Dr BloodMoney]

This is not a private insurance company you sign up for. This is the government forcing you into their plan and dictating your doctor and treatment.

Your post from the bill does not show where you're forced into the Gov plan.

[Dr BloodMoney]

Read the other part where it says that access to your bank accounts is a requirement to transfer funds for payment. :evil:

Sure post a link. There are 4-5 bills, which one is this?

[Iggy]

If there are going to be different government plans then that makes sense and guess what I bet you have to be a citizen to get one also

Except that illegal aliens will be covered. So you lose that bet.

And as far as dffering plans go, Obama has been telling everyone that we'd all get the same health care he and Congress gets. Another lie, of course.

[simssk]

Neither does this, the card list your financial responsibility at the doctors office, i.e. co-pay or whatever concept the plan uses.

This
‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time
adjudication of claims;
15 ‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment,
16 response, and status reporting applicable to any
17 electronic transaction deemed appropriate by
18 the Secretary;

Page 58 and 59


coupled with this:

‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
order to allow automated reconciliation with the
22 related health care payment and remittance ad-
23 vice;

leaves that door opened for electronic access to my funds to determine what I can pay right on the spot.

[Iggy]

Your post from the bill does not show where you're forced into the Gov plan.
That's on page 16.

Have you read any of this this thing?

[Iggy]

This
‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time
adjudication of claims;
15 ‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment,
16 response, and status reporting applicable to any
17 electronic transaction deemed appropriate by
18 the Secretary;

Page 58 and 59


coupled with this:

‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
order to allow automated reconciliation with the
22 related health care payment and remittance ad-
23 vice;

leaves that door opened for electronic access to my funds to determine what I can pay right on the spot.This thing is downright Orwellian.

[Dr BloodMoney]

This
‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time
adjudication of claims;
15 ‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment,
16 response, and status reporting applicable to any
17 electronic transaction deemed appropriate by
18 the Secretary;


coupled with this:

‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
order to allow automated reconciliation with the
22 related health care payment and remittance ad-
23 vice;

leaves that door opened for electronic access to my funds to determine what I can pay right on the spot.

You're posting limited sections of the bill. Please post a link to the version of the Bill your posting from

Just guessing I'd say that if you want to use electronic funds transfer, then yes they need your bank info. Now please show us where electronic funds transfer is MANDATORY.

Link please.

[DRS]

Except that illegal aliens will be covered. So you lose that bet.

And as far as dffering plans go, Obama has been telling everyone that we'd all get the same health care he and Congress gets. Another lie, of course.

What will happen when you walk in without a card?

If there is going to exist the option to pick and choose coverages then you make end up with two different insurance plans and I went to the links for their coverage and and in their coverage they have options for their care.

[Dr BloodMoney]

That's on page 16.

Have you read any of this this thing?

Which Bill? There are 4 or 5 bills pending. Is this the version passed by the House? If so please list the bill number. Can't discuss without the actual information. Thanks.

[BillBrown]

Page 58 of the Health Care Rationing Plan:

‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real
time) determination of an individual’s financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility,
which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;"


You're going to get a card that tells what kind of treatment you can have and what doctor you're allowed to see and what your "financial responsibility" will be above and beyond the taxes you're going to already be paying for this atrocity.

Seriously, who wants the government to have this much control over our lives?

A lot of people want this kind of thing. That's why Obama was elected.

There are always those who want to turn their lives over to the government. The history books are full of it and they tell us the price these people wind up paying.

[Iggy]

Seriously, those of you defending this; Would you really be in favor of the government taking these kinds of powers away from the people if it were Republicans trying to pass it? Take off the partisan blinders for a second and realize that one day, the "other side" might be running this.

Those of you who were so afraid of Bush wire-tapping the phone calls of terrorists should be ****ing your pants over this.

[Dr BloodMoney]

Seriously, those of you defending this; Would you really be in favor of the government taking these kinds of powers away from the people if it were Republicans trying to pass it? Take off the partisan blinders for a second and realize that one day, the "other side" might be running this.

Those of you who were so afraid of Bush wire-tapping the phone calls of terrorists should be ****ing your pants over this.

Please post the bill number. Thanks.

[Iggy]

You're posting limited sections of the bill. Please post a link to the version of the Bill your posting from

Just guessing I'd say that if you want to use electronic funds transfer, then yes they need your bank info. Now please show us where electronic funds transfer is MANDATORY.

Link please.

Good lord. There is a stickie at the top of the WP forum with links in it. But for brevity's sake, I'll post the link to where I'm getting it from right here:http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

Warning, its a 1000 page PDF.

[DRS]

Seriously, those of you defending this; Would you really be in favor of the government taking these kinds of powers away from the people if it were Republicans trying to pass it? Take off the partisan blinders for a second and realize that one day, the "other side" might be running this.

Those of you who were so afraid of Bush wire-tapping the phone calls of terrorists should be ****ing your pants over this.

I said I had no problem with wiretapping either.

Until the final bill is put together and all the deatail put together than I see no point in getting upset , I think picking out things and complaining is going on also due to partisanship.

[Iggy]

Please post the bill number. Thanks.

Its the same freaking bill everyone in the US is talking about. OMG.

[Iggy]

I said I had no problem with wiretapping either.

Until the final bill is put together and all the deatail put together than I see no point in getting upset , I think picking out things and complaining is going on also due to partisanship.
Over 200 years ago, Americans died by the thousands to make this country the greatest, most free society in the world. Damned straight I'm going to get upset when a bunch of America-hating leftists take over and start trying to destroy it.

[simssk]

You're posting limited sections of the bill. Please post a link to the version of the Bill your posting from

Just guessing I'd say that if you want to use electronic funds transfer, then yes they need your bank info. Now please show us where electronic funds transfer is MANDATORY.

Link please.

The bill is downloaded on my computer.

The word "mandatory" is not located any where in this bill.

Yet, the provision that you will pay 2.5% of your income if you do not have insurance is there.

That makes it mandatory or pay fees.

Do you seriously think the word "mandatory" needs to be in this bill to make these provisions mandatory?

[DRS]

Over 200 years ago, Americans died by the thousands to make this country the greatest, most free society in the world. Damned straight I'm going to get upset when a bunch of America-hating leftists take over and start trying to destroy it.

So you are saying that it is partisan on your part to hate the bill since you see it as leftist?

[Cutiepie]

And Government medical care when your sick.....:rolleyes:



You are not getting this. I will NOT use government medical period. I would rather die. I would love to see someone come to my house and make me go to the doctor or tell me I have to use GObama! the idiot's care. I will tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[kat]

Page 58 of the Health Care Rationing Plan:

‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real
time) determination of an individual’s financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility,
which may include utilization of a machine-readable
health plan beneficiary identification card;"


You're going to get a card that tells what kind of treatment you can have and what doctor you're allowed to see and what your "financial responsibility" will be above and beyond the taxes you're going to already be paying for this atrocity.

Seriously, who wants the government to have this much control over our lives?


They can kiss my free autonomous ass. I FLAT REFUSE to submit my privacy and that of any of my family to this beast!

This will be used to determine your qualifications for HC. Overweight? Smoker? Thyroid Disease? Birth Defects? Genetics? Too bad lady, move to the back of the line!

[Iggy]

So you are saying that it is partisan on your part to hate the bill since you see it as leftist?
You missed the whole part about them destroying the country I love, I guess.:wall:

[BillBrown]

They can kiss my free autonomous ass. I FLAT REFUSE to submit my privacy and that of any of my family to this beast!

This will be used to determine your qualifications for HC. Overweight? Smoker? Thyroid Disease? Birth Defects? Genetics? Too bad lady, move to the back of the line!

I think resistance will be futile. Obama has the powers of the police state at his disposal.

[Dr BloodMoney]

Back to your original post.

It's from section:

‘‘SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE
11 TRANSACTIONS.

It's goal is:

IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall adopt
and regularly update standards consistent with the
goals described in paragraph (2).

The bill mandates that the Government set up a standardize way for Providers to use various electronic transaction systems. This section states that they are to be standarized, i.e. no multiple systems that can confuse and cost the provider money. This is a GOOD Thing.

The small section that you posted is no different that any Insurance company that mandates that your provider verify electronically that you are eligible for services. Nothing more.

Now, should we have national health insurance, good question, I've yet to see a plan under consideration that I approve of. However they need to keep working, current system is slowly failing.

If they do adopt a system, then the section we're posting about is a valid and industry standard technique. I'd hope that the government does not need to go about trying to invent a new way to do these things, private insurance and even Medicare already does.

[ValricoKate]

I won't be getting a card b/c I will NOT use GObama! the idiot's care. My ass will be sitting in jail. At least there I will have 3 meals a day, TV, A/C.

and free healthcare :))

One way or another they're gonna gitcha, they're gonna gitcha, gitcha, gitcha.

That reminds me ... I need to make my daily call to my Reps to let them know I still haven't changed my mind ...I do not want this.

[Dr BloodMoney]

You are not getting this. I will NOT use government medical period. I would rather die. I would love to see someone come to my house and make me go to the doctor or tell me I have to use GObama! the idiot's care. I will tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

Don't then. I hope you realize that once you retire you've got the money to not need Medicare.

[Iggy]

Back to your original post.

It's from section:

‘‘SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE
11 TRANSACTIONS.

It's goal is:

IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall adopt
and regularly update standards consistent with the
goals described in paragraph (2).

The bill mandates that the Government set up a standardize way for Providers to use various electronic transaction systems. This section states that they are to be standarized, i.e. no multiple systems that can confuse and cost the provider money. This is a GOOD Thing.

The small section that you posted is no different that any Insurance company that mandates that your provider verify electronically that you are eligible for services. Nothing more.

Now, should we have national health insurance, good question, I've yet to see a plan under consideration that I approve off. However they need to keep working, current system is slowly failing.

If they do adopt a system, then the section we're posting about is a valid and industry standard technique. I'd hope that the government does not need to go about trying to invent a new way to do these things, private insurance and even Medicare already does.

So the government grabbing this kind of power over individuals is no big deal to you?

[ValricoKate]

Please post the bill number. Thanks.

The main bill HR 3200 is linked in my sig.
I got tired of looking it up.

It will most definitely be amended though so I wouldn't waste time memorizing it.

[DRS]

You missed the whole part about them destroying the country I love, I guess.:wall:

Everybody thinks the everyone who does not agree with them is destroying their county, heck Michael Moore wrote a book Dude where's my country because he thought people whom he did not agree with were destroying the country he loved.

[Iggy]

Don't then. I hope you realize that once you retire you've got the money to not need Medicare.When people on Medicare try to pay for their own services, according to the government, they are committing fraud. I'm betting this will work the same way.

[Iggy]

Everybody thinks the everyone who does not agree with them is destroying their county, heck Michael Moore wrote a book Dude where's my country because he thought people whom he did not agree with were destroying the country he loved.
Difference is, I'm looking at the Constitution which is supposed to be the measure.

[Dr BloodMoney]

So the government grabbing this kind of power over individuals is no big deal to you?

Did you see this part of my post?

I've yet to see a plan under consideration that I approve off.

Once again the section you posted is not the issue, if we do adopt a national health care system then it is needed and a good thing.

The real issue is do we need NHC. Like I've said, none of the bills solves the current problems we have with health care in this country. So I don't support any of the ones that I've looked at.

What I find silly is when people post sections of the bill and then argue about them, usually we are not even posting about a actual issue.

[Dr BloodMoney]

When people on Medicare try to pay for their own services, according to the government, they are committing fraud. I'm betting this will work the same way.

Simple give up government money, SS and Medicare, else use it and obey the rules.

[kat]

I think resistance will be futile. Obama has the powers of the police state at his disposal.

And I have the powers of the LIBERTY at my disposal.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[Iggy]

Simple give up government money, SS and Medicare, else use it and obey the rules.

All those should be done away with.

[Dr BloodMoney]

All those should be done away with.

I assume then that you will refuse them?

[DRS]

Difference is, I'm looking at the Constitution which is supposed to be the measure.

Where in the constitution does it say the government of the people shall not bring about change in order to keep competitive on the global markets and because the people voted in a government who promised to do just this thing?

[PSBandit]

It would seem there are many on the left who have no concept of liberty and freedom.

[Iggy]

I assume then that you will refuse them?

When they pay me back all the money they stole from me we'll call it even. It'll never happen though. SS will be bankrupt soon.

[Iggy]

Where in the constitution does it say the government of the people shall not bring about change in order to keep competitive on the global markets and because the people voted in a government who promised to do just this thing?

Change on the order we're talking about here is supposed to come through the amendment process, not though "we won, you lost, nyah!"

[Iggy]

It would seem there are many on the left who have no concept of liberty and freedom.

Obviously.

[Cutiepie]

Don't then. I hope you realize that once you retire you've got the money to not need Medicare.



I won't need to worry about it. By the time I get to that age they were going to let me die anyway.

[Dr BloodMoney]

I won't need to worry about it. By the time I get to that age they were going to let me die anyway.

I didn't realize that people auto die at 65. Oh well.....

[kat]

it would seem there are many on the left who have no concept of liberty and freedom.

bingo!

[Iggy]

I didn't realize that people auto die at 65. Oh well.....

Well, we're not sure what the cut-off date for treatment of the elderly will be yet.

[DRS]

Change on the order we're talking about here is supposed to come through the amendment process, not though "we won, you lost, nyah!"

If you think it was simply we win you lose and we are going to do things our way then why have none of the wars ended?

Because it is not in the best interest of those in power for it to end.

You do not think the same is going on here with healthcare?

You do not think American businesses have gone to different politicians and through lobbyist to have this sort of thing drawn up so they can keep competing and keep people working and buying products?

[Cutiepie]

I didn't realize that people auto die at 65. Oh well.....




look at MJ, and Billy Mays. Both of them were 50 years old and died. No one knows at what age they are going to die. I might be like my grandma who was born in 1900 and she lived until she was 93 years old. I could die tomorrow, or next week or next month or next year.

[Iggy]

If you think it was simply we win you lose and we are going to do things our way then why have none of the wars ended?
Because no politician wants to be the one who lost a war, no matter which party they belong to. All the talk about pulling out of Iraq was just pandering to the lunatic fringe. Obama had no intention of cutting and running.

Because it is not in the best interest of those in power for it to end.
Agreed, but we're talking about domestic policy, not foreign policy and war. Two completely different issues.

You do not think the same is going on here with healthcare?I believe they think socialized health care is politically in their best interest because it builds a base of dependency. The more people depend on government, the more power they are willing to fork over. FDR and LJB proved this is a viable strategy. Obama is trying to produce the same power structure with his health rationing plan.

You do not think American businesses have gone to different politicians and through lobbyist to have this sort of thing drawn up so they can keep competing and keep people working and buying products?Some maybe. But the majority of businesses are scared to death of this.

[Dr BloodMoney]

look at MJ, and Billy Mays. Both of them were 50 years old and died. No one knows at what age they are going to die. I might be like my grandma who was born in 1900 and she lived until she was 93 years old. I could die tomorrow, or next week or next month or next year.

True, I guess then we all should avoid all medical care and insurance. We're going to die anyway.

[Dr BloodMoney]

Well, we're not sure what the cut-off date for treatment of the elderly will be yet.

There is not one.

[DRS]

Some maybe. But the majority of businesses are scared to death of this.

You really think so, what is the rates of taxation on businesses under this plan?

[Cutiepie]

True, I guess then we all should avoid all medical care and insurance. We're going to die anyway.



Look, I know when I die where I will be going so, I have no fear of dying. I know that Heaven will be a much better place then this old world. I am at the age that I am sick of putting up with the crap that is being dished out. I do NOT want government in my life period.

[E7ALR]

The same as they do under Medicare, the same as they do with Tricare, the same as Insurance companies do under private insurance.My Doctor doesn't currently swipe my Retired Military ID card to see if I can receive a treatment.

This is the tool, coupled with an eventual single payer government system and single nationwide health database that will be used to deny treatment.

Your doctor won't do anything more than diagnos your illness. After that a ridgid set of "best practice protocals" (with best meaning most cost effective, not medically effective) will automatically computer generated once your doctor enters the diagnosis. Any care you get will require you to present your card before you get it. And just like Canada, you won't even be allowed to offer to pay for different treatment if you are one of the masses.

[Iggy]

There is not one.

Not a set one yet.

[bigtwnvin]

I won't be getting a card b/c I will NOT use GObama! the idiot's care. My ass will be sitting in jail. At least there I will have 3 meals a day, TV, A/C.
Don't forget all the dates to the Penitentiary Prom too! ;)