Obama throws Cambridge cops under bus

[uncledoom]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly_29

At the end of the Healthcare Infomercial, Obama took a few minutes to bash the local cops referenced in the attached story. This issue had little to do with race and a more to do with an arrogant teacher who couldn't understand why these police officers didn't know who he was. Lets see how long the stretch this out since they received the Presidential Seal of Approval...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly;_ylt=ArYK4YKwuvMCq46 bSh5gJB1saMYA

This link has Obama's comments

[RogerDodger]

There's a nearly 400 post thread in WP on this subject.

[LouC]

Obama is a bigot.

I already knew that.

He also lied about the case.

I already knew he was a liar.

Planted softball question from alleged independent media person.

Same as previous administrations, I already knew there was no change.

Maybe others who had blinders on before 11-04-2008 could see in a new light last night.

[LouC]

There's a nearly 400 post thread in WP on this subject.

Thanks for the info.

Now there is a thread in GI.

[Gray]

There's a nearly 400 post thread in WP on this subject.

So what?

[Buffalo]

While it was similarly addressed by the mayor and the governor, I do not believe it was appropriate for Obama to comment as he did.

I do not believe that Gates should have been arrested and reading what circumstances of the arrest we have been provided, I may have acted similarly to Gates. That said, I do not believe the officer acted based on racial prejudices.

[ArmyMAJretired]

In the words of Rodney King:

"Can't we all just get along?"

If a black cop had arrested Obama's pal he wouldn't have said a word.

I though he was a post racial candidate.

I guess it's impossible for an elite professor to be a belligerant jerk.

[King Cantona]

If I had forgot my keys and had to break in I would have been happy if the police stopped me, it shows they're doing their job. After that it's incumbent on me to provide ID...

[LouC]

If I had forgot my keys and had to break in I would have been happy if the police stopped me, it shows they're doing their job. After that it's incumbent on me to provide ID...

Perhaps because you aren't a well respected Professor with accolades aplenty who happens to also be a bigot.

[ArmyMAJretired]

Perhaps because you aren't a well respected Professor with accolades aplenty who happens to also be a bigot.

The whole "You don't know who you're messing with" cracked me up.

Reminds me of Cynthia McKinney and the Capital Police.

[LouC]

The whole "You don't know who you're messing with" cracked me up.

Reminds me of Cynthia McKinney and the Capital Police.

Yes that did have shades of Cynthia McKinney arrogance, along with other displays of bigoted arrogance I have personally witnessed.

One would think such a learned man would not jump to such unfounded stereotypical conclusions.

[super cool ski instructor]

If I had forgot my keys and had to break in I would have been happy if the police stopped me, it shows they're doing their job. After that it's incumbent on me to provide ID...

But "don't you know who you are messing with"??????????


:neutral:

[King Cantona]

Perhaps because you aren't a well respected Professor with accolades aplenty who happens to also be a bigot.

True, I don't have any accolades that I know of and I'm not a bigot so I wouldn't have made a big deal of it...

[Wild Bill03]

I posted this in another thread.

During the primary election I was saying (Because of Obamas own words in his own book and 20 years of Rev. Wright) that if Obama was elected it would set back racial relations 40 years and I was right. Proof is all over the internet in confrontations like we saw in the earlier pages of this thread between Gunslinger and the pinhead that got booted and the press conference was only a few hours ago. (BTW Thanks for all you do Gunslinger!).

Its not the fact that hes black and hes President, its his beliefs and racial anger. If Bill Cosby had won the election it would have brought the races closer just like everyone incorrectly claimed it did when Obama won, and Cosby is just as qualified for the office as Obama.


If what I read is correct the professor teaches a class on the oppression of minorities, even if he doesnt its clear hes a race baiter. And when the idiot in chief said in his rant last night that the professor was a friend of his I knew what side he was gonna take since his own book says in his own words "Thats just how white folks will do ya". The professor being a friend of Obamas fits the template of the sort of people the idiot calls friends and mentors.


I knew after the election we were instore for the worst President in history and only six months he has done nothing but prove me right.

Thanks to everyone that voted for the admitted crackhead, there were plenty of warning signs and no real reason to vote for someone with no political or professional track record to go by. Your vote has ruined my country.

Enjoy the increased racial tensions (and riots if he is an illegal alien and removed from office, that warning was there too).

[Sinister Rouge]

While it was similarly addressed by the mayor and the governor, I do not believe it was appropriate for Obama to comment as he did.

I do not believe that Gates should have been arrested and reading what circumstances of the arrest we have been provided, I may have acted similarly to Gates. That said, I do not believe the officer acted based on racial prejudices.


I think the officer was out of line, but I won't touch the racial issue.
I also think the professor should have backed off. It appears that both sides were using too much testosterone and not enough brains.
And if Obama had just added the comment, I would say it was inappropriate. However, someone asked him about it, and he answered. Saying they were stupid was a little too much, however.

[ExDem]

Why is anyone shocked that the mutt would throw the cop under the bus? His good buddy Ayres bombed the police station. Birds of a feather.

[SUVRon]

Obama is the ass I said he was when he was running for POTUS. He like many love to judge the police before he has any FACTS. Obama knows he screwed up when he called the offcers stupid. As an officer I didn't vote for him and I never would. There have been a few meetings here in Maryland among officers(black and white) who finally agree this guy is a turd. I'm ashamed of this president for what he stands for and what he's trying to lead us towards. What an ass

[sgtmac_46]

If I had forgot my keys and had to break in I would have been happy if the police stopped me, it shows they're doing their job. After that it's incumbent on me to provide ID...

No kidding....

'Don't you know who I am?'

'Uhm, if I knew who you were i wouldn't be asking for ID.'

[sgtmac_46]

Yes that did have shades of Cynthia McKinney arrogance, along with other displays of bigoted arrogance I have personally witnessed.

One would think such a learned man would not jump to such unfounded stereotypical conclusions.


Obama can identify with this situation because he has the same arrogant chip on his shoulder.

[sgtmac_46]

Yes that did have shades of Cynthia McKinney arrogance, along with other displays of bigoted arrogance I have personally witnessed.

One would think such a learned man would not jump to such unfounded stereotypical conclusions.

More evidence that 'learned' doesn't mean 'wise'.

[barbara]

Just another example of Obama's true character, when he doesn't have a Teleprompter. This guy will say anything, true or not, with or without the facts. (And he thinks the average Joe won't remember what he said before! He thinks we are all stupid. That assumes he thinks he is Superior to everyone.)

[sgtmac_46]

Just another example of Obama's true character, when he doesn't have a Teleprompter. This guy will say anything, true or not, with or without the facts. (And he thinks the average Joe won't remember what he said before! He thinks we are all stupid. That assumes he thinks he is Superior to everyone.)

It's hilarious that when he wanders off script, his little inner dictators comes shining through....:))

[LouC]

Obama can identify with this situation because he has the same arrogant chip on his shoulder.

Boy that was obvious, well it was obvious to anyone not with their face to the ground genuflecting to the "ONE".

Gates and Obama, friends and Blood Bigots.

[barbara]

We had a similiar case just recently in Maine. A State Representative, with his special car number plate, who was speeding, was stopped by a policeman. His first remark to the policeman was an arrogant, "Do you know who I am?" "Prada" news was printing all sorts of allegations about the Policeman! To heck with getting the FACTS.

[sgtmac_46]

Obama has a simple formula for determining right and wrong in situations like this.......all he has to know is the race of those involved and he can call it without any further inquiry.

[snagswolf]

A lot of you said, "So what if Bush had a "chip" on his shoulder for wanting to go after Saddam for wanting to assassinate his father."
Really? A lot of us said that?

Actually, my only response to that claim was calling the person who made it a dumbass.

Yet after 30 plus million African Americans died in the Transatlantic slave trade, and lynchings and beatings for whistling at white women, for wanting to learn to read and write, for wanting to vote, blacks should not have a chip on their shoulders; that's delusional thinking.
At what point does the guilt trip end?

My great-great-grandparents came to this country after the Civil War, and when they did, they faced oppression and bigotry also because of their nationality. Should I be entitled to carry a chip around on my shoulder because of what they had to go through?

Our God, my God, says to be compassionate and have mercy.

Yet you laugh and poke fun at blacks' innate anger...God has a special wrath for collective/national mockery.
Really? Can you show me in the Bible where it talks about God's 'special wrath' He reserves for 'national mockery'? Hell, it didn't even make it into the top ten when God was making up a list of commandments. ("11. Thou shalt not poke fun at angry black folks." Ooh, so close, but only made it to 11.)

What a joke. We're supposed to walk on eggshells around blacks because they're justified in having an 'innate anger'?

:)) :)) :))

[FlipFlop]

This is the most ridiculous nonsense i have ever heard. To begin, if the story is true as it is told on every news station, then it was wrong to point the finger at the cops. If the same thing happened to a white person this would never be in the news. This wasn't some Rodney King ****, a cop was just doing his Job. Had Gates complied with the law/cops, everything would have been fine. Secondly Fleet2Fire you made a good point, however in order for everything to move in a positive direction you have to either get rid of the chip or ignore it. Whether there is a chip on someones shoulder or not, it doesn't mean its right. History is something that has happened, and we should never forget. However, its there to learn from so that we don't make the same mistake, not to keep pointing fingers.
Who still holds grudges?

[Samm]

It's all ok now folks... I just heard on the news that Obama reached down and pulled the policeman up, dusted him off and invited him to come to the White House for a beer.

(Yeah... like that is ever going to happen... :rolleyes: )

[DuckSoupe]

I still don't know if the Policemans Momma was outside

[sgtmac_46]

I still don't know if the Policemans Momma was outside

I'm still amused that a 'learned' Harvard Professor believes that 'Yo' Momma' is the height of discourse! :)) :)) :))

[sgtmac_46]

Define what race relations is, and describe what positive race relations look like.

I know what a RACIST is.....and Gates IS one.........arguing that his present racism is justified by his past experience is like arguing that an adult pedophile is justified by being a victim as a child.......go on and try the 'Historical victim' argument and see where it logically leads. ;)

[sgtmac_46]

This country has been unkind to blacks longer than it has been free, equal for all. How many veterans still have a chip on their shoulder about Vietnam and how that played out. I think a lot of you are unsincere and unempathetic with anything that is not conservative or white/European. Blacks and minorities are the dictated, and now that the pendulum begins to swing back, a lot of you are showing your true colors--hateful and unkind. A lot of you said, "So what if Bush had a "chip" on his shoulder for wanting to go after Saddam for wanting to assassinate his father." Yet after 30 plus million African Americans died in the Transatlantic slave trade, and lynchings and beatings for whistling at white women, for wanting to learn to read and write, for wanting to vote, blacks should not have a chip on their shoulders; that's delusional thinking.

Imagine Obama to truly be a dictator, and then imagine he orders that minorities represent 80% of this country by 2030, and orders the killing of whites/Europeans by the millions. Would those surviving whites/Europeans have a chip on their shoulder, even generations beyond their decimation? How would whites/Europeans celebrate and respond to having a white president after such an ordeal?

Our God, my God, says to be compassionate and have mercy.

Yet you laugh and poke fun at blacks' innate anger...God has a special wrath for collective/national mockery.

I laugh and poke fun and collective stupidity........spare me your 'an adult pedophile is justified by his childhood victim status' argument......it's pure delusional rationalization. ;)

As for 'the country' a country is it's PRESENT citizens, not something it's past citizens who are long dead and buried did.......to believe otherwise is a bit schizophrenic.



But, tell you what, whether you know it or not that line of logic is fundamentally racist.......lets PURSUE your that line of racist logic for a while........no one will EVER get over past historical slights.....ERGO why even TRY!

Why should we even bother trying to move on as a unified nation, if a minority population will always resent and hate those of another race? In fact to DO so is, in essence, cultural and racial suicide. Using THAT racist logic it is only logical for the dominant race to NEVER allow that minority race to gain any power......using YOUR logic the Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists are actually RIGHT!

Tell me.......how does it feel embracing an ideological point of view that fits comfortably in with that doctrine? It shouldn't come as any surprise that black racists and white racists have common ground.......Mohammad Ali spoke a Ku Klux Klan rally about the separation of races on behalf of the Nation of Islam.

"Muhammad Ali's meetings with Ku Klux Klan leaders revealed by documentary"

"Far from being embarrassed about sharing jaw-time with the Grand Chief Bigot or whatever the loon in the sheet called himself, Ali boasted about it."

"At the time he was taking his lead from the Nation of Islam, which, in its espousal of a black separatism, found its politics dovetailing with the cross-burning lynch mob out on the political boondocks."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxingandmma/3419060/Muhammad-Alis-meetings-with-Ku-Klux-Klan-leaders-revealed-by-documentary-Boxing-and-MMA.html




Here's a HINT........as long as a people identifies themselves by a RACE they will always be racist........I don't qualify myself, first and foremost, in my mind as a WHITE man......i'm a man, an individual, who happens to be white.......the fact that Black Americans had RACIST views pushed on them is ZERO JUSTIFICATION to continue to embrace those racist views now that they have the freedom to separate themselves from those racist views. In fact, to continue to embrace those racist perspectives once you are free to drop them is the HEIGHT of insanity given that those views were rooted in racism that put them in bondage in the first place...............so if one finds themselves hating someone of a different race because someone of a similar race victimized his ancestors........THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF RACISM!

[Lady Liberty]

Obama has a simple formula for determining right and wrong in situations like this.......all he has to know is the race of those involved and he can call it without any further inquiry.

It is so deeply embarrassing to have a president who is so blatantly racist... or, if that's not the case and we're all reading this wrong, a president who is not smart enough to hold his tongue until he has all the facts in order to at least appear fair-minded.

[Gabby]

I see you responded to everything accept the narrative about whites/Europeans walking around with a chip on their shoulder if the situations were reversed? Do folks walk around on eggshells when discussing the holocaust?

I apologize! Not people here was saying Bush went to war for that reason, but some Conservatives made that point outside this forum, right?

What happened to Egypt when they mocked the Hebrews and God's commandments?

In the Bible, it was a commandment for the Hebrews to pass down the story of Exodus from generation to generation, to never be forgotten.

I will not go back and forth with you...However, I hope that Karma is not the only way some of you will ever understand.
You miss the point entirely.

It is time for all people in this country to stop the racist nonsense.

The cop was not being racist when he went to a home to check out a report that two men were breaking into a home. And indeed two men were breaking into a home. The only thing is that one of those men lived there.

It was racist of the professor to assume that the cop was harassing him only because he is a black man.

Here we have a 58 year old black man who has apparently never been harassed by the police before. ( I make that assumption because I’m sure that if he had been we would have heard about it by now with all of his interviews and justifications for his racist assumptions.) So once in 58 years a police man asks him for an id and he automatically thinks it’s because of racism???? Keep in mind too that this is a rich, successful black man who has risen to a high social standing in a predominately white university and college. So apparently this man is more than accepted and respected by the whites around him… yet he harbors racist mistrust towards those very same whites? If he has not learned that most whites today are not racist by now… it’s only because he’s blind to the truth and somehow this serves him.

And no I’m not one of those white/Europeans you seem to have such distain for. I’m a black African. And by the way, Gates does not like blacks from Africa either. He’s written quite a lot about that topic too. He blames all of us because some individual blacks in Africa were and continue to be slave traders. He seems to have a problem with making gross generalizations about huge populations of people and branding them... this also seems to fill his needs.

[ogibillm]

i wish people understood what the phrase 'throw them under the bus' meant and didn't just use it to describe everyone obama has a disagreement with.

[FidelisAdMortem]

I wish a President of the US would get all the facts before callng something done by police as stupid.

[John2598]

The fact that Obama said anything at all about a local police matter makes him look small and lacking in judgement. He's the president!! He seems to forget that he's not a "community organizer" anymore.

It makes you wonder what kind of judgement he would have in an emergency, like a nuclear attack etc..

[sgtmac_46]

It is so deeply embarrassing to have a president who is so blatantly racist... or, if that's not the case and we're all reading this wrong, a president who is not smart enough to hold his tongue until he has all the facts in order to at least appear fair-minded.

Either way he is utterly unfit for the office.......hell, this would be embarrassing if he were still just a Senator!

[sgtmac_46]

As a counselor, most successful cases come by a person understanding how their past influence their behavior.

If you're a counselor, you sound like the kind that would prefer their clients remain slaves to their own demons, because it keeps them coming back and paying the hourly billable rate so you can benefit, rather than ACTUALLY getting the **** over it and moving on with a productive life......:think:......that Sounds EXACTLY like Jackson, Sharpton, Gates, Obama and the rest of the race pimps......profiting off illness, rather than encouraging health!


As for your argument about past ills.......that's the same justification the Hutu's used in slaughtering nearly ONE MILLION Tutsi's in Rwanda! Because in centuries past the Tutsi's were the big meanies, and we have to be true to our long racial vendetta's, right? PAST wrongs DO NOT justify PRESENT AND FUTURE WRONGS, not matter how self-righteous you think you are! ;)



As for the stupid 30 Million dead figure, which orifice did you pull that number out of? Between the 16th and 19th Century, 300 years, only 645,000 slaves were ever brought in to what became the United States (BY THE BRITISH, by the way). At it's height that population only grew to 4 million. Even if you calculated EVERY African in America in that last 400 years you wouldn't come up with 30 Million. There are only 39.9 million Americans of African decent living in the US right now!

As to the evils of slavery, only 4.8% of the US population at slavery's height ever owned a slave.......and all of THOSE people have been dust for a century or better..........and no living person in the US was ever legally owned AS a slave. My suggestion is that the de-markation point for 'GETTING THE **** OVER IT' is at the point at which NO LIVING PERSON WAS INVOLVED IN IT! After that it becomes simply an excuse for maladaptive beliefs and biases.

[sgtmac_46]

Help me with race relations, please...I want help; but please do not think it will happen by you telling me to bury my thoughts and feelings about slavery, and to move on and forget about it.

You can move on and get over it or not.......I could care less. It's your baggage, not mine, and quite frankly many folks tolerance for carrying that baggage is waning. You can call me cold hearted or whatever other perjorative gets you through the night.....I never owned a slave, I never trafficked in slaves, I bear ZERO responsibility for slavery, and it's a cross you're not going to hoist on my shoulders, skippy.

My feet are not going to be held to that fire, and you're not going to extract your pound of flesh from me, get it? ;)

[Gabby]

Again, it is disappointing to read how cold-hearted some of you are. Hannity asked the CEO Black Business of Commerce the other day why blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic. The answer has a large part to do with Conservative insensitivity and cold-heartedness.
Now that’s a load of nonsense. What people here are saying is that they are not racist and are sick and tired of being called racists.

Both sides in this have valid points. The ancestors of most American blacks were once slaves here. A few, very few, ancestors of American whites once owned those slaves. Most of the whites in this country in those days did not own slaves. Shoot, most of the whites in this country today have ancestors show came here AFTER the emancipation of the slaves. No black person alive today is a slave. No white person today owns a slave. It’s time for the generations today to live in today.

Both sides need to stop this nonsense.


Help me with race relations, please...I want help; but please do not think it will happen by you telling me to bury my thoughts and feelings about slavery, and to move on and forget about it.
How about a reality check on slavery. Between the years of 1400 and 1850 the blacks of North African enslaved over 125 million white Europeans. Yep, they constantly raided European coastal cities and European ships taking millions hostage and selling them into slavery in the North African and Middle Eastern slave markets. The men were castrated and forced to build cities/ports, work in the fields or fight to the death in their armies. The women were used as domestics and sex slaves (mostly sex slaves). The children they bore were killed to prevent the white blood from contaminating the black blood.

These numbers by the way do not include the huge number of white slaves taken before the year 1400. Do not forget that when the Moors invaded the Iberian Peninsula they took a huge percentage of the white European population as slaves back to African. Between the years 700 and 1400 they their treaties with the surrounding European cultures often included the random of a few hundred European virgins a year for the harems of the North African caliph.

So tell me, why shouldn’t whites have equally as much an issued about the blacks enslaving whites?

Why do you assume that slavery is a black only issue?

My ex’s grandmother was Italian. She was born in the late 1800’s in a village on the coast of Italy. She had a saying when we’d go out ‘Attenta ai’Mori’ (Watch out for the Moors). It was her way of saying be careful. Why? Because the Moors had raided her village so many times that the villagers lived in fear of them.

I was born in African. Slavery still exists there. It is the blacks enslaving the blacks. There are more salves in the world today than there every have been in the history of the world… over 25 million of them. I think that our attention should be on today… the salve and mistreatment of people today. For me, the reality is that slavery and racism are not white issues. They exist in every society and every race... always have and apparently always will.

Those who hang onto history, and allow hate to fill them based on history only perpetuate the hate to the next generation. It’s time for this nonsense to stop.

What you do not seem to realize is that many of the posters where who you seem to think are insensitive to blacks are not even white or are only partially white.

[Gabby]

As a counselor, I utilized the Solution-focused approach, which is the fastest of the approaches; the Narrative approach, which empowers the client, and I utilize Carl Roger's approach, the client is his own counselor.

Your tongue is bold and arrogant...only interested in spewing its rigidness, hate and disdain for any African American position.

Slavery

African American Slavery

In American Holocaust (1992), David Stannard estimates that some 30 to 60 million Africans died being enslaved. He claims a 50% mortality rate among new slaves while being gathered and stored in Africa, a 10% mortality among the survivors while crossing the ocean, and another 50% mortality rate in the first "seasoning" phase of slave labor. Overall, he estimates a 75-80% mortality rate in transit.

In Slavery A World History, Milton Meltzer estimates that 10 million slaves arrived in the Americas. This would be the residue after 12.5% of those shipped out from Africa died on the ocean, 4-5% died while waiting in harbor, and 33% died during the first year of seasoning.

In "The Atlantic Slave Trade and the Holocaust" (Is the Holocaust Unique, A. Greebaum, ed., 1996), Seymour Drescher estimates that 21M were enslaved, 1700-1850, of which 7M remained in slavery inside Africa. 4M died "as a direct result of enslavement".

Of the 12M shipped to America, 15%, or 2M more, died in the Middle Passage and seasoning year.
Jan Rogozinski, A Brief History of the Caribbean (1994): "[A]s many as eight million Africans may have died in order to bring four million slaves to the Caribbean islands."
Yep, that’s pretty bad. What is really appalling is that slavery of this sort has existed in Africa since the dawn of time. One tribe would raid the other and sell the captives into slavery. It’s an industry that has always existed and still exists. I saw it with my own eyes as a child.

It’s pretty close to the type of disaster that was visited upon the Europeans who were enslaved in much larger numbers by the North Africans.

It’s actually a lot lower than the disaster that was visited upon the people of southern Africa by the North African slave traders. The estimate is that for every one slave that lived through the march from southern Africa to North Africa 18 died. The North African slave trade records show about 125 million were sold in the market. Multiply that by 18 to get the about of carnage our black North African ‘brothers’ visited upon these slaves.

[sethwrkr]

Issues 2
I think this is an important window inot how important race issues are to this president and a window into most of our country currently consist of victims that require protection from the sofisticated private sector fleesing them.

Of course most of us conservatives think that citizens are not being victimized, but partake in the enourmouse wealth created by free market efficiency. I am sorry we just had a problem that may or may not have been created by a free market aberation. I think it was govt screwing up the mortgage market. But anyway...

Bottom line we have had tremendous success in this country even though we have underperformed in areas like education. Its the free market stupid.

2nd Issue... Unbelievably niave to comment on this issue without the facts. Couldnt his staff make a telephone call to do some basic fact checking - especially if the question is a setup. If not, he should have said, doesnt doon like and ideal situation. I do not know the facts. No comment at this time. That would be the basic mature thing to do. I would get my balls cut off in the business word if I went on at some lenght about something I know nothing about. "not my area" I will find out and get back to by X" John, is this your area. You canb speak on this inteligently? Speaking on it? I thought this guys was supposed to be smart. He is the one who acted stupidly!

Seth

[sgtmac_46]

Do you attribute these feelings to the PTSD soldiers, holocaust survivors and the New York citizens as well?

Your analogy is asinine......I would feel that way about ANY clown who would claim he has PTSD because his GRANDFATHER served in WWII! Which is EXACTLY what you're arguing......inherited RACIAL PTSD......and it's the dumbest idea since the PET ROCK!

Go buy yourself a clue. ;)

[sgtmac_46]

Slavery

African American Slavery

In American Holocaust (1992), David Stannard estimates that some 30 to 60 million Africans died being enslaved. He claims a 50% mortality rate among new slaves while being gathered and stored in Africa, a 10% mortality among the survivors while crossing the ocean, and another 50% mortality rate in the first "seasoning" phase of slave labor. Overall, he estimates a 75-80% mortality rate in transit.
In Slavery A World History, Milton Meltzer estimates that 10 million slaves arrived in the Americas. This would be the residue after 12.5% of those shipped out from Africa died on the ocean, 4-5% died while waiting in harbor, and 33% died during the first year of seasoning.
In "The Atlantic Slave Trade and the Holocaust" (Is the Holocaust Unique, A. Greebaum, ed., 1996), Seymour Drescher estimates that 21M were enslaved, 1700-1850, of which 7M remained in slavery inside Africa. 4M died "as a direct result of enslavement". Of the 12M shipped to America, 15%, or 2M more, died in the Middle Passage and seasoning year.
Jan Rogozinski, A Brief History of the Caribbean (1994): "[A]s many as eight million Africans may have died in order to bring four million slaves to the Caribbean islands."

You've got HALF the truth........the VAST MAJORITY of those slaves went somewhere other than to what became the United States of America.....I already gave you those numbers, skippy.

If you have an issue with the Atlantic Slave Trade, the core of those you have a disagreement with are the EUROPEAN NATIONS that profited off of it........NOT the country made up mostly of NON-SLAVE OWNING immigrants. ;)


And at ANY rate, until you PROVE that PTSD is a genetically inherited DISEASES that can be shared by a RACE, you are STILL stuck with the REALITY that NOT ONE SINGLE LIVING PERSON was involved in the Atlantic Slave Trade, either as a slave or a slave owner...........as I said before......the DEMARKATION point for 'GETTING THE **** OVER IT' is when everyone involved is CENTURY OLD DUST!

[sgtmac_46]

As a counselor, I utilized the Solution-focused approach, which is the fastest of the approaches; the Narrative approach, which empowers the client, and I utilize Carl Roger's approach, the client is his own counselor. You're not empowering the client, you're using his pain to enrich yourself.....much like the race pimps in our society.......if they ever DID actually get over it and move on, you'd be out of a job. ;)

Your tongue is bold and arrogant...only interested in spewing its rigidness, hate and disdain The irony of that statment coming from you is hillarious on MANY levels! :))

[RTchoke]

Your analogy is asinine......I would feel that way about ANY clown who would claim he has PTSD because his GRANDFATHER served in WWII! Which is EXACTLY what you're arguing......inherited RACIAL PTSD......and it's the dumbest idea since the PET ROCK!

Go buy yourself a clue. ;)

Oh, I don't know. That whole "Invisible Dog" idea was rather stupid too. :)

[sgtmac_46]

I am very familiar with the Moors invasion of Italy; also, thank you for making my point; like Gates is weary of police officers, your Grandmother is weary of Moors, Africans. So if your grandmother was in a situation with "Moor", that was intense, we do not know what she may say. Similar to the New Yorkers that saw Air Force One fly over New York; similar to veterans when they hear screaming or what sounds like gunfire. Past experiences influence future behavior. Your grandmother had a saying, or a warning; and blacks had warnings for their children as well, and like your grandmother warned of Moors, our grandparents were warned about whites, cops and so forth, and our grandparents warned us.

Again, this is so easy, but I do not know what is blocking some of you from understanding. Like if you concede, means alleviating blacks of their responsibility to uplift their culture.

Here we go with the inherited PTSD bull ****.....they must not require any serious training for counselors in your state! :))

By the way.......how STUPID is it to believe that cops are racist bullies who are out to abuse you, and simultaneously believe that the best defense against that is to be a jackass who does his best to INCITE the police to do just exactly that, by YOUR OWN ACTIONS, and provide them with LEGITIMATE justification! That's as intelligent as racial inherited PTSD! :))



You THINK I have no tolerance for black people........let me correct your error.......I have ZERO TOLERANCE for stupid THINKING........I don't give a damn WHAT color the person doing the stupid thinking is! That's the real issue....I don't call something SMART simply because it came from a black man......STUPID IS, as STUPID DOES!




Inherited PTSD........:)) :)) :)) :)) Can you get disability for that? :)) My great, great, great, great grandfather was at Shiloh and i'm having flashbacks, can I get a check?! :))


I know what it is, skippy........you're used to bouncing these STUPID arguments off a bunch of whiny socialists, and they just give you praise no matter HOW stupid whatever comes out of your mouth is, because it's expected of them......well no sale here! :))

[sgtmac_46]

Oh, I don't know. That whole "Invisible Dog" idea was rather stupid too. :)

Touche!

[Gabby]

I am very familiar with the Moors invasion of Italy; also, thank you for making my point; like Gates is weary of police officers, your Grandmother is weary of Moors, Africans. So if your grandmother was in a situation with "Moor", that was intense, we do not know what she may say. Similar to the New Yorkers that saw Air Force One fly over New York; similar to veterans when they hear screaming or what sounds like gunfire. Past experiences influence future behavior. Your grandmother had a saying, or a warning; and blacks had warnings for their children as well, and like your grandmother warned of Moors, our grandparents were warned about whites, cops and so forth, and our grandparents warned us.
No you missed my point. My ex’s grandmother used an old expression that came from her village in Italy. However it was not all Africans that were the concern, it was a specific group who had harassed and enslaved her people for centuries. She and her family moved to New York. As an adult she raised 5 daughters of her own and three children she took in. The three children she took in were black children. She never harbored any distrust towards blacks or Africans. She treated all people equally. She, like most Europeans, do not hold all blacks responsible for the horrible inhumane things the North African visited for centuries upon Europeans. That is why, as an African, I was accepted into the family when I married her grandson.
Again, this is so easy, but I do not know what is blocking some of you from understanding. Like if you concede, means alleviating blacks of their responsibility to uplift their culture.
It is true that for a long time blacks in American were not treated well by many whites. However, if blacks cannot accept that most whites are not racist how can the healing happen? How can we all live together in peace?

What Gates did was wrong because he assumed a man was acting in an racist manner simply because of the color of the man’s skin. No one is asking Gates to forget the past. They are expecting him and others to act on a case by case basis to the things that occur today.

Do you hold all whites responsible for what other whites did in the past?

[Gabby]

“Intergenerational or multi-generational trauma happens when the effects of trauma are not resolved in one generation. When trauma is ignored and there is no support for dealing with it, the trauma will be passed from one generation to the next.”
This is exactly what people are talking about here: It’s time for the trauma of the past generations to be shed. The only way to do this is for people today to deal with it and find a way to ‘get over it’.

Those who cannot deal with it and the ‘generational trauma’ that they harbor as an excuse for bad behavior will end up in trouble with the law.

Your example talked about children who are victims of child abuse. Some percentage of those children will not be able to get beyond their trauma and will themselves become abusers. And when caught they will pay the price for their actions according to our laws.

Their early trauma explains how they became abusers, it does not excuse their actions.

The same goes for Gates, we can look at history and things that Gates was exposed to you a child. But the world has changed dramatically since that time. The man is a professor at one of the best universities in the world. He is not a victim, not by a long shot. He has had more opportunities than most people regardless of their race. He is 100% responsible for his actions. He was out of line.

Personally I think his reaction was more based on his ego than his race. He could not believe that he, a man of such accomplishments had to deal with a lowly cop. I’ve taught at a university and worked with many PHD’s trough my career. They tend to be an arrogant lot. I think that is why he kept asking the cop if he knew who he was dealing with.

From my personal experience, in dealing with trauma from my youth… I was born into a war torn area… I have found that I have to often stand back and check my reaction to things. I’ve taught myself to do this. I mentally stand back and think things through. Perhaps Prof. Gates, if he is still so traumatized by things that are no longer in his life, would benefit from learning the same techniques.

However, no one should have to put up with his ranting nonsense and personal attacks. He’s responsible for his own back behavior.

[sgtmac_46]

Yep! New Yorkers having PTSD and some veterans having PTSD is bull****; you're absolutely right. Wives that are being beaten and killed are not victims either, and New Yorkers getting scared when a plane flies too low is bull**** as well. Yeah, Congress should scrap the funding for PTSD counseling for soldiers, because PTSD is bull****.

The fact that I said I do not think the cop was acting racists is beside the point, right?

Having PTSD because your ancestor was a slave is Bull ****......get the **** over it. ;)

[sgtmac_46]

Multigenerational Trauma: the effects of harms that have occurred but have not been resolved
and have been transmitted from one generation to the next. We recognize it as the hurt,
suffering and pain of injustice that when left unresolved continues to cause harm until it is finally
addressed.

HISTORIC TRAUMA TRANSMISSION
Over time, the experience of repeated traumatic stressors become normalized and incorporated into the cultural expression and expectations of successive generations, while trauma manifesting as culturally prevalent will not be necessarily and readily identifiable as a specific or individual disorder. It is accepted, however, that "traumatic events often have widespread and devastating impacts on health and national and community stability, even when only a few individuals are primary victims."


"Intergenerational or multi-generational trauma happens when the effects of trauma are not resolved in one generation. When trauma is ignored and there is no support for dealing with it, the trauma will be passed from one generation to the next. What we learn to see as "normal" when we are children, we pass on to our own children. Children who learn that physical and sexual abuse is "normal" and who have never dealt with the feelings that come from this, may inflict physical abuse and sexual abuse on their own children. The unhealthy ways of behaving that people use to protect themselves can be passed on to children, without them even knowing they are doing so."


Yes. I am a "race pimp" in rural Nebraska. I work with youth/victims of abuse and neglect, and they're mostly white/European youths.


What you are is the kind of enabler that ensures continued maladaptive behaviors by reinforcing them.

As for your 'multi-generational trauma'.........that's the kind of pseudo-scientific definition that has turned the social sciences in to the joke they have become in the hands of people like you! :)) 'Multi-generational trauma'........talk about custom made bull **** to reinforce custom made bull ****! :))

Here, let me help you out there, skippy........even your analogy argues against you........in your analogy of child abuse you quote this.....

"Intergenerational or multi-generational trauma happens when the effects of trauma are not resolved in one generation. When trauma is ignored and there is no support for dealing with it, the trauma will be passed from one generation to the next. What we learn to see as "normal" when we are children, we pass on to our own children. Children who learn that physical and sexual abuse is "normal" and who have never dealt with the feelings that come from this, may inflict physical abuse and sexual abuse on their own children. The unhealthy ways of behaving that people use to protect themselves can be passed on to children, without them even knowing they are doing so."

Yet the irony of that is that your quote is talking about the BEHAVIOR of CHILD ABUSE.........the ongoing repetative maladaptive traits that continue the cycle.........which exists WITHIN THE VICTIMS themselves! :)) Hence, the issue of the long dead progenitors of the cycle are entirely irrelevant as it is the MALADAPTIVE TRAITS within the victims TURNED victimizers that need to be changed..........NOT the behaviors or beliefs of ANYONE ELSE. It is only within the victim turned VICTIMIZER that change and growth and healing can occur! So applying that to the black community we find that ONLY WITHIN the black community itself does there exist the mechanism to improve the collective behavior of the black community.........and like many who are formerly victimized letting go of their past anger is key.........and thereby changing the cycle of self-victimhood.


But bottom line you're a SOCIALIST (as you've already admitted) and you THRIVE off pimping other people's weaknesses and turning them in to victims like ALL good socialists, so that they need YOU to rescue them.......you have a messianic complex, and can't make your way in the world without victims........:think: That sounds familiar! :))

Oh, and like all sorts of your ilk, you consider ANYONE who doesn't need your meddling 'Cold Hearted'.......the only way to STOP being a slave is to shed the slave morality........those who embrace a slave morality will ALWAYS be slaves because they can't live without a master........that's the reason why the socialist slave morality wants a government master........it needs a master, it only aspires that it has a BENEVOLENT master..........living life WITHOUT a master is too fearful for folks like yourself.


The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.--
Archibald Macleish That is the most amusing part of the thread considering your posts illustrate a mind that couldn't possibly think for itself.......Socialism is ALL about the herd, and trying to create as benevolent a shepherd as possible.........the idea of individual liberty is so alien to a socialist as to be from a different universe.

[uncledoom]

Wow...I mean...wow. Obama brought up health care as a reason why the cops shouldn't have arrested this guy. Now I'm reading about Post Tramatic Stress Disorders and Vietnam....

What does any of that have to do with the FACTS of THIS CASE??

[sgtmac_46]

wow...i mean...wow. Obama brought up health care as a reason why the cops shouldn't have arrested this guy. Now i'm reading about post tramatic stress disorders and vietnam....

What does any of that have to do with the facts of this case?? Viet-*******-nam!


Walter Sobchak: Those rich ****s! This whole ****ing thing... I did not watch my buddies die face down in the muck so that this ****ing strumpet...

The dude: I don't see any connection to vietnam, walter.

Walter sobchak: Well, there isn't a literal connection, dude.

The dude: Walter, face it, there isn't any connection.

[Lady Liberty]

Either way he is utterly unfit for the office.......hell, this would be embarrassing if he were still just a Senator!

True.

When he was campaigning for office I was concerned about his lack of accomplishments and the associations he kept. Now that he is in office his ineptitude is staggering. His policies aside, the CHARACTER he displayed by speaking publicly to side with the angry black professor against the police, before he even knew what had really happened, is telling and blatantly racist and anti-police.

A sad, sad thing for our president to have such a petty, racist thought process and not have the wisdom to keep his mouth shut.

Having a beer together, when no one apologizes, is a waste of photo-op. If our president was a real leader he would have acknowledged his own mis-speaking and made some statement that would help heal the country's racism wounds which he had sprinkled salt on by his words. Lead by example. Obama's example seems to be 'say whatever you want, as long as you can LOOK like you're being fair-minded, you don't have to worry about the fact you are not actually a fair-minded person'.

~