Dangers of the Food Industry

[Arya]

Is our food making us sick? If you purchase food that is linked to factory farming, is processed, or has to be shipped over 500 miles to get to you-it probably is.

I have been well aware of the benefits of organic and locally raised produce/livestock as food sources. But the crap that is being offered to the general public as "food" is simply apalling. And the lack of response when people get sick or die from Salmonella and E. Coli outbreaks, as well as the difficulty in simply knowing what is in your food-or which country it is originating from (meat from China? Does anyone want this???) has to stop.

Obesity, Diabetes, Heart Disease and other Health Problems are at Epidemic Levels: The U.S. food system encourages the production of highly processed foods, high in sugar, calories and non-nutritional “fillers” like corn and soy ingredients. This heavily processed diet is leading to obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer among Americans.

Factory Farms: Of the 10 billion animals raised and killed for food in the United States every year, nearly all of them are raised on factory farms. Not only do these have inhumane conditions, but they pollute surrounding communities and contribute significantly to global warming.

Pesticides: Conventional farming relies on pesticides to grow crops, but these pesticide residues, which have been linked to cancer, autism and other neurological disorders, remain on your produce and in your animal foods.

Genetic Engineering: Genetically modified (GM) foods are grown from organisms that have had their DNA altered in a way that does not occur in nature. The three biggest potential concerns surrounding GM foods, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), are as follows:

Allergenicity. The transfer of genes from commonly allergenic foods could pose a problem for those already allergic. There is also a possibility of the creation of new allergies.

Gene transfer. Genes could potentially be transferred from GM foods to cells of the body or to bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract. This could have a negative effect on human health, such as the transfer of antibiotic-resistant genes to humans.

Outcrossing. Genes from GM plants can contaminate conventional crops in the wild through natural pollination and other processes (like wind). Further, seeds from GM and conventional crops can inadvertently be mixed. This "outcrossing" represents a threat to the future safety and security of the food supply, and has already occurred.

Cloning: The FDA has approved the sale of meat and milk from cloned livestock, despite the fact that Congress voted twice to delay the decision until further safety and economic studies have been conducted.

Transportation: The average food product travels 1,500 miles to get to your grocery store. In all, transporting food accounts for 30,800 tons of greenhouse gas emissions each year.

http://thephoenix.com/Boston/News/85578-Factory-food/
http://www.sixwise.com/Newsletters/2009/June/17/Is-Your-Food-Making-You-Sick.htm
http://www.foodincmovie.com/

[John2598]

Is our food making us sick?

I mostly agree with what you have said (except the part about global warming). But what do you suppose we should do about it? There's no nutrition education in the schools that I know of and parents, for the most part, aren't doing a very good job of teaching their kids. For the most part, the parents themselves are making poor food choices.

[DRS]

Problem is even with the so called healthy foods they are still transported over large distances

Even organic food is often coming in from south America, not for certain foods we have to bring them in. And out of season certain foods have to be brought in. The other thing is food is not only going to grocery stores but restaurants also and by and large we take food for granted at all levels

[MrShotShot]

I try to buy as much as I can from area farms.

I can usually get all of my summer vegetables and a good deal of my meat from less than 5 miles away - all organic, free range, and hormone free.

[Sinister Rouge]

Read Fast Food Nation.
The food industry engages in some pretty stomach-churning business practices.

[birddog1]

Is our food making us sick? If you purchase food that is linked to factory farming, is processed, or has to be shipped over 500 miles to get to you-it probably is.

I have been well aware of the benefits of organic and locally raised produce/livestock as food sources. But the crap that is being offered to the general public as "food" is simply apalling. And the lack of response when people get sick or die from Salmonella and E. Coli outbreaks, as well as the difficulty in simply knowing what is in your food-or which country it is originating from (meat from China? Does anyone want this???) has to stop.

Obesity, Diabetes, Heart Disease and other Health Problems are at Epidemic Levels: The U.S. food system encourages the production of highly processed foods, high in sugar, calories and non-nutritional “fillers” like corn and soy ingredients. This heavily processed diet is leading to obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer among Americans.

Factory Farms: Of the 10 billion animals raised and killed for food in the United States every year, nearly all of them are raised on factory farms. Not only do these have inhumane conditions, but they pollute surrounding communities and contribute significantly to global warming.

Pesticides: Conventional farming relies on pesticides to grow crops, but these pesticide residues, which have been linked to cancer, autism and other neurological disorders, remain on your produce and in your animal foods.

Genetic Engineering: Genetically modified (GM) foods are grown from organisms that have had their DNA altered in a way that does not occur in nature. The three biggest potential concerns surrounding GM foods, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), are as follows:

Allergenicity. The transfer of genes from commonly allergenic foods could pose a problem for those already allergic. There is also a possibility of the creation of new allergies.

Gene transfer. Genes could potentially be transferred from GM foods to cells of the body or to bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract. This could have a negative effect on human health, such as the transfer of antibiotic-resistant genes to humans.

Outcrossing. Genes from GM plants can contaminate conventional crops in the wild through natural pollination and other processes (like wind). Further, seeds from GM and conventional crops can inadvertently be mixed. This "outcrossing" represents a threat to the future safety and security of the food supply, and has already occurred.

Cloning: The FDA has approved the sale of meat and milk from cloned livestock, despite the fact that Congress voted twice to delay the decision until further safety and economic studies have been conducted.

Transportation: The average food product travels 1,500 miles to get to your grocery store. In all, transporting food accounts for 30,800 tons of greenhouse gas emissions each year.

http://thephoenix.com/Boston/News/85578-Factory-food/
http://www.sixwise.com/Newsletters/2009/June/17/Is-Your-Food-Making-You-Sick.htm
http://www.foodincmovie.com/

Which segment of the population do you propose we starve to death so that the rest of us will have enough locally grown organic produce? It is nice in theory to think that everyone should eat fresh organic foods but the truth is that organic farming won't keep everyone's belly's full.

I also disagree that "factory farms" are automatically inhumane.

[EnchantedFrog]

At this time of year, almost all of my fresh produce comes from 150 feet outside my back door.

[DRS]

Which segment of the population do you propose we starve to death so that the rest of us will have enough locally grown organic produce? It is nice in theory to think that everyone should eat fresh organic foods but the truth is that organic farming won't keep everyone's belly's full.

I also disagree that "factory farms" are automatically inhumane.

I think if we took out restuarants you would cut down the demand for factory farming

[Arya]

Which segment of the population do you propose we starve to death so that the rest of us will have enough locally grown organic produce? It is nice in theory to think that everyone should eat fresh organic foods but the truth is that organic farming won't keep everyone's belly's full.

I also disagree that "factory farms" are automatically inhumane.

What I find the most surprising is the belief that family farming is so unaccessible, or unrealistic a food source for a good portion of the US population. Organic or family farming is not THE answer-but a heck of a better deal healthwise than the common pratices of modern day industrialized farming. There is a portion of the population that currently cannot afford organic food, or hell, even produce as opposed to a couple burgers at Mickey D's. But for the majority of the US? Yes, we can do much better with our food choices.

Factory farms don't all=abuse, but a majority of them are just that. Inhumane, unhealthy, and not a very good method of providing safe food to the US population.

You may not like the facts, but they are out there-and coming from other sources than those provided. There are better choices, and our power as consumers is in our pocketbooks-where we choose to spend our money.

[Arya]

I think if we took out restuarants you would cut down the demand for factory farming

Bingo. Primarily the fast food and chain style restaraunts.

[Arya]

At this time of year, almost all of my fresh produce comes from 150 feet outside my back door.

Mine is farmer's markets, which are within 10 miles from my apt.

[Safiel]

The fast food industry exists because the consumers DEMAND fast food. They have shown this demand via their purchase choices. If adult citizens choose to eat fast food and these companies choose to serve it, than that should be that. It is NOT the government's business nor anybody elses to regulate the lives of other people. Isn't the government big enough as it is???

Unfortunately, some people won't be satisfied until the government is telling people how many squares of toilet paper they are allow to use to wipe with. :mad:

[DRS]

Bingo. Primarily the fast food and chain style restaraunts.

You never want to tour a farm contracted for KFC or one of the burger places, I remember one out west was feeding the chicken droppings in pellets to the cattles in their feed.

[Arya]

The fast food industry exists because the consumers DEMAND fast food. They have shown this demand via their purchase choices. If adult citizens choose to eat fast food and these companies choose to serve it, than that should be that. It is NOT the government's business nor anybody elses to regulate the lives of other people. Isn't the government big enough as it is???

Unfortunately, some people won't be satisfied until the government is telling people how many squares of toilet paper they are allow to use to wipe with. :mad:

You've hit the nail on the head with regards to what is actually fuelling factory farms and the destruction they're wreaking on people's health, the environment, and the animals caught in the quagmire-consumer dollars. We're (the consumer) the root of this evil.

And what is the best way of changing the way industries treat their "farms"? Stop eating at fast food restaraunts, and start buying more produce and meat from local butchers/farms/farmers markets, and supermarkets that purchase locally. There are also non-chain type restaraunts that serve local foodstuffs. The almighty dollar has a significant impact, and the fast food chain restaraunts will listen if people en masse stop going to their restaraunts because of how the food is "handled".

[Arya]

You never want to tour a farm contracted for KFC or one of the burger places, I remember one out west was feeding the chicken droppings in pellets to the cattles in their feed.

And people wonder why there are so many health issues with those that eat too much fast food? Not that the droppings are the primary cause, but if they're laced with PCB, Pesticies, Antibiotics, Anti-boitic resistant strains of Salmonella and E. Coli they definitely don't help!

I think many people would stop frequenting any chain restaraunt, Tyson and Perdue products, etc if they knew what was "in" their food :sick:

[curtis123]

You never want to tour a farm contracted for KFC or one of the burger places, I remember one out west was feeding the chicken droppings in pellets to the cattles in their feed.

That's actually a very common practice. Gross, but common. Some ranchers around here feed turkey **** to their cattle. Digestive systems of chickens and turkeys aren't very good, and their waste is very high in protein. Put a pile of turkey manure out in the pasture, and the cattle will come running to it.

Cattle eat off the ground where most animals take a dump anyway. At least the chicken and turkey farms de-worm them.

[curtis123]

And people wonder why there are so many health issues with those that eat too much fast food? Not that the droppings are the primary cause, but if they're laced with PCB, Pesticies, Antibiotics, Anti-boitic resistant strains of Salmonella and E. Coli they definitely don't help!

I think many people would stop frequenting any chain restaraunt, Tyson and Perdue products, etc if they knew what was "in" their food :sick:

As farms and ranches get bigger, so do the infection rates.

If a small family farm with a couple dozen head of cattle has an outbreak, it's a contained problem. If a large feedlot with a couple thousand head have an outbreak, it's a serious problem.

If you look, you can buy your beef from a small family farm. I do. There's still a few of them left. If they disappear completely, we're all in big trouble.

[Arya]

Goody, more additives to the processing of fast food. Actually, this is a reflection on the unsafe work hazards that workers go through in the processing plants for fast food restaraunts. There isn't much to go on with details of how it happened, but just the fact that she was found inside the machine is suspicion to the lax safety protocols in these places.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/354/story/997376.html

[DRS]

That's actually a very common practice. Gross, but common. Some ranchers around here feed turkey **** to their cattle. Digestive systems of chickens and turkeys aren't very good, and their waste is very high in protein. Put a pile of turkey manure out in the pasture, and the cattle will come running to it.

Cattle eat off the ground where most animals take a dump anyway. At least the chicken and turkey farms de-worm them.

I worked on a chicken farm when i was a kid and one thing that still sticks with me is the smell of ammonia, I know they do it I just try not think about while having a steak

[Arya]

As farms and ranches get bigger, so do the infection rates.

If a small family farm with a couple dozen head of cattle has an outbreak, it's a contained problem. If a large feedlot with a couple thousand head have an outbreak, it's a serious problem.

If you look, you can buy your beef from a small family farm. I do. There's still a few of them left. If they disappear completely, we're all in big trouble.

You are correct about this. Smaller farms also have a greater tendency to have free roaming/grass grazing cattle. These types of cattle are healthier for they are not fed on the super cheap, corn-based meal that is the primary food source for factory farming. This type of diet supports the growth of the antibiotic-resistant E. Coli strains that have resulted in numerous outbreaks and deaths annually in the US.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/2006-09-01/E-coli-Spinach-Outbreak-Caused-by-Cows.aspx

Info on why family farming is so important to us:
www.sustainabletable.org/issues/familyfarms

[DRS]

You are correct about this. Smaller farms also have a greater tendency to have free roaming/grass grazing cattle. These types of cattle are healthier for they are not fed on the super cheap, corn-based meal that is the primary food source for factory farming. This type of diet supports the growth of the antibiotic-resistant E. Coli strains that have resulted in numerous outbreaks and deaths annually in the US.

www.sustainabletable.org/issues/familyfarms

And if we stop feeding corn and grains to the animals and go with grass or hay and you can drop the price of those for people

[jeepers]

I have no problem eating locally grown food. Would prefer it. Have no problem supporting organic, I do but not across the board. Can't get everything that I want and what I want isn't always available or good. However, one thing that is NEVER EVER addressed with the whole romanticized notion of local slow food....

What is fresh and in season from November to May, in the Midwest? Six months out of the year, that farmland is a bunch of huge brown dirt squares, growing NOTHING. So if I don't buy tomatoes from Florida or grapes from 'Chi-lay' in the winter, my kids are basically not going to eat fresh fruit or vegetables.

Now one could say, 'oh eat organic frozen'. To that I say, okay YOU do it. I'd like my kids to eat food that doesn't come from a bag.

I'm not saying that to be argumentative, but I'm pretty blunt about this one.

People have a tendency to be incredibly ethnocentric when it comes to this foodie subject matter IMHO. They think about their own experience in their backyard, but they don't think about the challenges for those who don't live, say, in California.

Btw, tomatoes here on a good day, often suck rocks. We have a lot of humidity during the summer. We get the heat, but we also get the moisture which makes growing them sometimes a challenge. I've done it three years in a row with mixed results.

Same thing applies to having a lawn. Have the rain most of the time, but there is a fungus season here. Can't xeroscape, not an option in this burg. Can't even use something like Bermuda. Couldn't afford to relandscape right now even if I wanted to.

I tried going totally organic with lawn and garden here when we first came to town. Alfalfa meal on the lawn, corn gluten for fungus, that sort of thing. Even got beneficial, way over priced, nematodes for japanese bettle larvae.

But trying to grow things can make you rip your hair out and I can now see why some folks just say screw it and don't bother. More than once I've come into the house completely ready to quit on the whole thing.

I asked a local produce man about why farmers don't do greenhouse stuff for the winter, but was basically informed that the cost would be prohibitive to try to keep those things warm in close to zero weather.

Go organic. Eat healthy. Eat as close to the vine as possible. But also know that there are particular growing places in this country for a reason as the climate differences support it or prohibit it.

[Arya]

And if we stop feeding corn and grains to the animals and go with grass or hay and you can drop the price of those for people

You're right-even though corn right now is dirt cheap to use for feed (or in the multitude of processed foodstuffs we eat daily). What that does is help keep the farmers who grow the corn poor-there is a nasty revolving door with farmers, who are in debt, having to continuously borrow and "owe" those corporations that own the factory farms, just to survive.

What we are doing to our very own US farmers is deplorable.

[Arya]

I have no problem eating locally grown food. Would prefer it. Have no problem supporting organic, I do but not across the board. Can't get everything that I want and what I want isn't always available or good. However, one thing that is NEVER EVER addressed with the whole romanticized notion of local slow food....

What is fresh and in season from November to May, in the Midwest? Six months out of the year, that farmland is a bunch of huge brown dirt squares, growing NOTHING. So if I don't buy tomatoes from Florida or grapes from 'Chi-lay' in the winter, my kids are basically not going to eat fresh fruit or vegetables.

Now one could say, 'oh eat organic frozen'. To that I say, okay YOU do it. I'd like my kids to eat food that doesn't come from a bag.

I'm not saying that to be argumentative, but I'm pretty blunt about this one.

People have a tendency to be incredibly ethnocentric when it comes to this foodie subject matter IMHO. They think about their own experience in their backyard, but they don't think about the challenges for those who don't live, say, in California.

Btw, tomatoes here on a good day, often suck rocks. We have a lot of humidity during the summer. We get the heat, but we also get the moisture which makes growing them sometimes a challenge. I've done it three years in a row with mixed results.

Same thing applies to having a lawn. Have the rain most of the time, but there is a fungus season here. Can't xeroscape, not an option in this burg. Can't even use something like Bermuda. Couldn't afford to relandscape right now even if I wanted to.

I tried going totally organic with lawn and garden here when we first came to town. Alfalfa meal on the lawn, corn gluten for fungus, that sort of thing. Even got beneficial, way over priced, nematodes for japanese bettle larvae.

But trying to grow things can make you rip your hair out and I can now see why some folks just say screw it and don't bother. More than once I've come into the house completely ready to quit on the whole thing.

I asked a local produce man about why farmers don't do greenhouse stuff for the winter, but was basically informed that the cost would be prohibitive to try to keep those things warm in close to zero weather.

Go organic. Eat healthy. Eat as close to the vine as possible. But also know that there are particular growing places in this country for a reason as the climate differences support it or prohibit it.


I share your fustrations-living in the northeast our growing season is but a few months out of the year. We do have some local farms that use greenhouses-but as you've already stated that can prove to be expensive. What I've relyed on are canned or frozen: canned for fruit, and frozen for veggies. Some of the canning/freezing can be done in your own house (if you have the time/space) or from specific stores or supermarkets-if you can find out where the produce comes from.

It's not a perfect system to have fresh, local foodstuffs year round. That's impossible for many of us in the northern climates. But there are alternatives to help make more responsible purchasing and eating decisions during the non-growing seasons.

http://www.paystolivegreen.com/2009/01/fresh-produce-hard-to-find-during-winter/

[Safiel]

In regards to numerous comments made about factory farming versus family farming. I grew up around small family farms in Northeast Pennsylvania. Many farms, including some owned by my relatives have gone by the wayside over the last thirty years.

But we have to understand something.

Back in the revolutionary era, many people were artisans of various kinds. Paul Revere was a silversmith. But as time went on that kind of individual production proved inefficient to serve the growing number of producers and was overtaken by factory production.

Factory farming is nothing more than the similar evolution in agriculture. Centralized factory farms can feed our growing population cheaper and more efficiently than can family farms. If we did not have factory farms and were still depending solely on family farms, many food items now abundant would be scarce and grossly expensive, particularly fowl and eggs.

Yes, factory farming has been inhumane in the past and continues to be inhumane in some aspects, but is rapidly improving. The process of beef slaughter has in particular been greatly improved as to minimize stress on the animal and modern stun guns with properly trained operators have a 99.99%+ successful first strike stun rate.

The only dark spot that remains is chicken farming and even there things are getting better by the day as new humane facilities come online and obsolete facilities are shuttered.

We can't live in the past. Family farming is a wonderful occupation and past time if you can pull it off successfully, but only factory farms are sufficient to feed America and the world, just as other factories are necessary to provide us with the many commodities we need and desire.

[birddog1]

In regards to numerous comments made about factory farming versus family farming. I grew up around small family farms in Northeast Pennsylvania. Many farms, including some owned by my relatives have gone by the wayside over the last thirty years.

But we have to understand something.

Back in the revolutionary era, many people were artisans of various kinds. Paul Revere was a silversmith. But as time went on that kind of individual production proved inefficient to serve the growing number of producers and was overtaken by factory production.

Factory farming is nothing more than the similar evolution in agriculture. Centralized factory farms can feed our growing population cheaper and more efficiently than can family farms. If we did not have factory farms and were still depending solely on family farms, many food items now abundant would be scarce and grossly expensive, particularly fowl and eggs.

Yes, factory farming has been inhumane in the past and continues to be inhumane in some aspects, but is rapidly improving. The process of beef slaughter has in particular been greatly improved as to minimize stress on the animal and modern stun guns with properly trained operators have a 99.99%+ successful first strike stun rate.

The only dark spot that remains is chicken farming and even there things are getting better by the day as new humane facilities come online and obsolete facilities are shuttered.

We can't live in the past. Family farming is a wonderful occupation and past time if you can pull it off successfully, but only factory farms are sufficient to feed America and the world, just as other factories are necessary to provide us with the many commodities we need and desire.

People are also over looking the fact that the family farm is still very involved in the factory farming practice. They are the ones actually raising the chickens and hogs which then get sent to slaughter.

Also beef cattle production is one area agriculture that has resisted the factory farming approach. Nearly all of the calves come from cow/calf operations that operate on pasture. The calves are raised up to a weaning weight of around 500 lbs and then are sold to a back grounding operation that usually feeds them a mixture of feed and grass until they reach around 900 lbs at which time they are sent to a feed lot to be fattened for approximately a month on a corn based diet before they are slaughtered.

[John2598]

The fast food industry exists because the consumers DEMAND fast food. They have shown this demand via their purchase choices. If adult citizens choose to eat fast food and these companies choose to serve it, than that should be that. It is NOT the government's business nor anybody elses to regulate the lives of other people. Isn't the government big enough as it is???

Unfortunately, some people won't be satisfied until the government is telling people how many squares of toilet paper they are allow to use to wipe with. :mad:

You made a valid point, but it doesn't go far enough to address the issue of the health and well being of the nation. And the health of the nation should be of concern to you.

To the extent that the average American is unhealthy, it costs you money. You pay taxes to fund Medicaid. Some day, if you don't already, you most likely will pay a Medicare premium (and it can be high or low depending on the lifestyles of others who are in it with you). If you buy your own health care insurance, the monthly premium will be based on your health and the health of others. The more unhealthy people there are, the higher premiums will tend to be in gereral.

Take the military: A few years ago I read that about 25 to 30% of all volunteers were rejected because they couldn't pass the physical, for being overweight etc.. So what did they do? They started offering large sums of money as an incentive, like $10,000.
Where does that money come from, the tooth fairy? We, the American taxpayers are paying the bill.

So, we need smart people like you to help with some creative ideas on how to encourage others the live a healthy lifestyle. What can we do to influence or discourage the "DEMAND" for fast food?

[Arya]

In regards to numerous comments made about factory farming versus family farming. I grew up around small family farms in Northeast Pennsylvania. Many farms, including some owned by my relatives have gone by the wayside over the last thirty years.

But we have to understand something.

Back in the revolutionary era, many people were artisans of various kinds. Paul Revere was a silversmith. But as time went on that kind of individual production proved inefficient to serve the growing number of producers and was overtaken by factory production.

Factory farming is nothing more than the similar evolution in agriculture. Centralized factory farms can feed our growing population cheaper and more efficiently than can family farms. If we did not have factory farms and were still depending solely on family farms, many food items now abundant would be scarce and grossly expensive, particularly fowl and eggs.

Yes, factory farming has been inhumane in the past and continues to be inhumane in some aspects, but is rapidly improving. The process of beef slaughter has in particular been greatly improved as to minimize stress on the animal and modern stun guns with properly trained operators have a 99.99%+ successful first strike stun rate.

The only dark spot that remains is chicken farming and even there things are getting better by the day as new humane facilities come online and obsolete facilities are shuttered.

We can't live in the past. Family farming is a wonderful occupation and past time if you can pull it off successfully, but only factory farms are sufficient to feed America and the world, just as other factories are necessary to provide us with the many commodities we need and desire.


I think the main point about this thread has been overlooked, at least with this post. The values of "factory farming" are far outweighed by the ill health and rise in life threatening diseases of those that frequent the fast food/chain restaraunts that sell this type of meat.

Plus the offage of the slaughterhouses has contributed to frequent (almost annual) E. Coli and Salmonella outbreaks that have resulted in deaths.

We cannot ignore these "facts". I'm not against factory farming, if the animals are treated humanely not only during the slaughter, but while they are alive as well. Plus the feed of mainly corn needs to be changed to offset the growth of anti-microbial resistant strains of E.Coli, and the spread of Salmonella which affects not only the meat industry-but other food sources as well (tainted spinach for one). I'm also not against factory farming if more allowances were given to the family farmers-so that they too can make a living and not get obliterated by the multi-mega corporations that currently dominate our food supply.

When you also take into account the rise in obesity, diabetes, and heart disease that is a direct result of eating a diet that consists mainly of fast/junk/processed foods-well, current practices in factory farming really isn't a good idea after all, is it?

When one weighs out the cost of medical care, the price of transportation to jet, ship, or truck processed food and meat across countries, plus the lack of nutrition one actually is consuming-the overall equation is that factory farming is not economical. It is not a deal.

[Arya]

People are also over looking the fact that the family farm is still very involved in the factory farming practice. They are the ones actually raising the chickens and hogs which then get sent to slaughter.

Also beef cattle production is one area agriculture that has resisted the factory farming approach. Nearly all of the calves come from cow/calf operations that operate on pasture. The calves are raised up to a weaning weight of around 500 lbs and then are sold to a back grounding operation that usually feeds them a mixture of feed and grass until they reach around 900 lbs at which time they are sent to a feed lot to be fattened for approximately a month on a corn based diet before they are slaughtered.

To clarify: "factory farms" may consist of those farms that may be run by private families-but their paychecks, and how they handle the animals, are governed by mainly four huge corporations. When refering to "family farms", the emphasis is on the privately owned and operated farms that do not sell their meat or produce to these corporations. They do not fall under the umbrella of the term "factory farmers".

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Arya, a couple of points. First of all, I agree with you on all the points that you presented, being the sychophant that I am. Second, it is so good to have you back!!!

[Arya]

You made a valid point, but it doesn't go far enough to address the issue of the health and well being of the nation. And the health of the nation should be of concern to you.

To the extent that the average American is unhealthy, it costs you money. You pay taxes to fund Medicaid. Some day, if you don't already, you most likely will pay a Medicare premium (and it can be high or low depending on the lifestyles of others who are in it with you). If you buy your own health care insurance, the monthly premium will be based on your health and the health of others. The more unhealthy people there are, the higher premiums will tend to be in gereral.

Take the military: A few years ago I read that about 25 to 30% of all volunteers were rejected because they couldn't pass the physical, for being overweight etc.. So what did they do? They started offering large sums of money as an incentive, like $10,000.
Where does that money come from, the tooth fairy? We, the American taxpayers are paying the bill.

So, we need smart people like you to help with some creative ideas on how to encourage others the live a healthy lifestyle. What can we do to influence or discourage the "DEMAND" for fast food?

BUMP for the question presented by John here: "What can we do to influence or discourage the "DEMAND" for fast food?"

This was a very good question-any takers on good methods to discourage the "Demand" for fast food, and encouraging the current practices that are contributing to so many problems with US health as a result?

[outfromunder]

BUMP for the question presented by John here: "What can we do to influence or discourage the "DEMAND" for fast food?"

This was a very good question-any takers on good methods to discourage the "Demand" for fast food, and encouraging the current practices that are contributing to so many problems with US health as a result?

This "Onion" Clip oughta do it
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/taco_bells_new_green_menu_takes

If fast food wasnt "fast" any more nor "food" then the demand should go away.
Personally, I choose not to eat any more fast food. The govt shouldnt mandate or legislate these places out of business, our choice not to eat there should drive them out.

[Safiel]

BUMP for the question presented by John here: "What can we do to influence or discourage the "DEMAND" for fast food?"

This was a very good question-any takers on good methods to discourage the "Demand" for fast food, and encouraging the current practices that are contributing to so many problems with US health as a result?

This pretty much summarizes the posts from earlier, so I can answer them all in one shot.

My answer.

When you present the question "What should we do???" that automatically translates as "What should the government do???" since coercive policy is being contemplated.

We the People, meaning the government, should do absolutely NOTHING. Not a thing. It is not the governments place to nanny people. Any government action in this area is tyranny, pure and simple.

There are healthy restaurants arising in the marketplace, due to the increasing demand for such places. And of course, private organizations can inform and educate people as to a private diet.

But freedom must be preserved and that includes the freedom to make mistakes and bad choices.

The cost to "society" via health care has been previously mentioned. The solution to this is quite easy. Desocialize health care. If health care is a free market commodity as it should be, then those making bad choices will solely have to pay for the cost of their bad choices. Government should not do anything that takes a person's responsibility for themselves away from that person.

When you socialize things, you take away a person's incentive to behave responsibly.

[Paul Augie]

This thread makes it sound like we are eating tainted food everywhere we go. Feeding 300 Million does require processing and more than local farms.

I’m not familiar with farming but I am familiar with food processing. Our food processing plants are heavily monitored by the FDA. Each plant has to provide office space for a FDA rep on site. The plants can not run production without the rep’s approval who usually monitors and observes production. Plants follow FDA approved sanitizing procedures between production runs and are inspected before the next production. Procedures within the production are strict.

Plants are built in accordance with strict regulations including having a drain system that allows high pressure sanitization. Temperatures are constantly monitored, hot and cold process must be separated. Cross contamination is carefully controlled. Workers are dressed and sanitized like operating room doctors. Special equipment is required to scan for foreign materials. Even imported processed food plants must be in compliance with FDA regs.

We have the safest and cleanest processed food possible. Episodes of tainted processed food are a rare occurrence compared to the volume of food that is processed. Even at that we have a rapid “recall” system including a coding and record keeping system that allows quick tracking.

The healthiness of particular foods is another subject. But that is the consumer’s decision. Almost all processed foods are labeled with consumer information.

On the fast food industry obviously they serve “fast food”, not “healthy” food. Again a consumer’s decision. Tainted “fast food” episodes makes the headlines, but you are more likely to be poisoned at your local diner than your local McDonalds.

On the fruits and veggies, personally I only buy domestic.

[Arya]

This thread makes it sound like we are eating tainted food everywhere we go. Feeding 300 Million does require processing and more than local farms.

I’m not familiar with farming but I am familiar with food processing. Our food processing plants are heavily monitored by the FDA. Each plant has to provide office space for a FDA rep on site. The plants can not run production without the rep’s approval who usually monitors and observes production. Plants follow FDA approved sanitizing procedures between production runs and are inspected before the next production. Procedures within the production are strict.

Plants are built in accordance with strict regulations including having a drain system that allows high pressure sanitization. Temperatures are constantly monitored, hot and cold process must be separated. Cross contamination is carefully controlled. Workers are dressed and sanitized like operating room doctors. Special equipment is required to scan for foreign materials. Even imported processed food plants must be in compliance with FDA regs.

We have the safest and cleanest processed food possible. Episodes of tainted processed food are a rare occurrence compared to the volume of food that is processed. Even at that we have a rapid “recall” system including a coding and record keeping system that allows quick tracking.

The healthiness of particular foods is another subject. But that is the consumer’s decision. Almost all processed foods are labeled with consumer information.

On the fast food industry obviously they serve “fast food”, not “healthy” food. Again a consumer’s decision. Tainted “fast food” episodes makes the headlines, but you are more likely to be poisoned at your local diner than your local McDonalds.

On the fruits and veggies, personally I only buy domestic.



Unfortunately, you have painted the picture that most Americans get when on the subject of fast food/processed food/factory farming. There is one major subject that consistently gets overlooked: the quality of the food that we are eating-and the facts of why that food is making us sick that are consistently not made aware of. You may be aware of how food is processed, but you are not aware of how the FDA is NOT heavily regulating our food supply-and that is only the beginning of the problems that the US is suffering, healthwise.

There have been changes to how the FDA regulates food inspection over the past decade, and that has made it easier for the bacterial outbreaks as stated in this thread to occur:
"USDA officials, along with scientists and consumer advocates, argue that the poke-and-sniff system wastes time looking for tuberculosis, brucellosis and other diseases that are extremely rare, while failing to detect pathogens in meat and poultry."
From: http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=16842&ref=rellink

"The FSIS allowed food processors too much control over the inspection process, failed to aggressively target high-risk establishments and didn't adequately verify the safety inspection of imported products, the report said. It recommended that FSIS do a better job of monitoring the testing procedures at plants, establish specific requirements for meat and poultry processors, and seek authority to impose monetary penalties or other sanctions if violations occur.

The report also said the USDA should increase the testing it does for the presence of dangerous pathogens, possibly adding tests for other scientifically detectable microbes."

From: http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Oversight-Meat-Poultry-Inspection.htm

http://www.mindfully.org/Food/USDA-Inspecting-Meat-Plants15aug02.htm

The point is that the quality of our food is not being regulated properly to ensure public safety. This is evident in the # of tainted food recalls, the # of outbreaks occuring, and the rise in deaths due to current practices that result in the tainted food getting out to the public in the first place.

It should be our HEALTH as a nation that is a primary concern with regards to our food supply-and our decline in health should never be considered a "by-product" of current food processing practices. The US consumer in general is in the dark about what is actually in our foods-a factoid that can be reversed through awareness and demand for better practices and awareness of what we are actually eating. It also involves the US to change their eating habits-eat out less and prepare our own foods more-or change where we decide to place our money when we do go out to eat.

The consumer dollar holds a lot of power-and we as consumers have the final word on what we put into our bodies. But I do believe that the consumer has been left in the dark about the unhealthiness of the food that we have been eating over the past decade, and we have the right to know what we are actually eating.

http://www.consumersunion.org/campaigns/notinmyfood/learn.html

[Arya]

This pretty much summarizes the posts from earlier, so I can answer them all in one shot.

My answer.

When you present the question "What should we do???" that automatically translates as "What should the government do???" since coercive policy is being contemplated.

We the People, meaning the government, should do absolutely NOTHING. Not a thing. It is not the governments place to nanny people. Any government action in this area is tyranny, pure and simple.

There are healthy restaurants arising in the marketplace, due to the increasing demand for such places. And of course, private organizations can inform and educate people as to a private diet.

But freedom must be preserved and that includes the freedom to make mistakes and bad choices.

The cost to "society" via health care has been previously mentioned. The solution to this is quite easy. Desocialize health care. If health care is a free market commodity as it should be, then those making bad choices will solely have to pay for the cost of their bad choices. Government should not do anything that takes a person's responsibility for themselves away from that person.

When you socialize things, you take away a person's incentive to behave responsibly.

It's interesting to see this come up as far as the question that was asked.

Is there anything that the US citizen can do to illicit changes in current processing practices? Things that do not require the goverment to directly become involved and "nanny" the people?

I agree with you that this is not the responsibility of the government to "fix". But I am also aware that the public in general is not aware of exactly what dangers have arisen over the past decade due to how their food is being processed and supplied to them-and they have a right to know.

[sgtmac_46]

What I find the most surprising is the belief that family farming is so unaccessible, or unrealistic a food source for a good portion of the US population. Organic or family farming is not THE answer-but a heck of a better deal healthwise than the common pratices of modern day industrialized farming. There is a portion of the population that currently cannot afford organic food, or hell, even produce as opposed to a couple burgers at Mickey D's. But for the majority of the US? Yes, we can do much better with our food choices.

Factory farms don't all=abuse, but a majority of them are just that. Inhumane, unhealthy, and not a very good method of providing safe food to the US population.

You may not like the facts, but they are out there-and coming from other sources than those provided. There are better choices, and our power as consumers is in our pocketbooks-where we choose to spend our money.

Organic food is a very clever marketing ploy.......nothing else.

Today we're going to put on our tie dyed shirt, grow our hair long and dirty, claim hatred for science and corporate America, then walk into the most expensive specialty supermarket in town and purchase one of the most overpriced products on the market today: Organic food.

Organic food is a conventional food crop (genetically exactly the same plant variety as the regular version) but grown according to a different set of standards. In this sense, organic food is really the same thing as kosher food. The food itself is identical, but it's prepared in such a way to conform to different philosophical standards. Just as kosher standards are defined by rabbinical authorities, the USDA's National Organic Program sets the requirements for foods to bear a "certified organic" label. Basically it forbids the use of modern synthetic fertilizers and pesticides in favor of organic equivalents, and for animals it requires that they have not been kept healthy through the use of antibiotics. There are other rules too, and the basic goal is to require the use of only natural products throughout the growth, preparation, and preservation stages.

Organic food is more expensive than conventional food, due not only to its lower crop yields and more expensive organic fertilizers and pesticides in larger quantities, but mainly because it's such a big fad right now and is in such high demand.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019?popular=true




"Although the organic movement has humble origins, today most of its food isn't produced on family farms in quaint villages or even on hippie communes in Vermont. Instead, the industry has come to be dominated by large corporations that are normally the dreaded bogeymen in the minds of many organic consumers. A single company currently controls about 70 percent of the market in organic milk. California grows about $400 million per year in organic produce -- and about half of it comes from just five farms." http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2334

You want to talk about the DANGERS of food products, so-called American factory farmed foods and pesticides aren't the danger......the pathogens produced in the kind of manure fields used to produce much so-called 'Organic' foods is, the kind that spread diseases like E. Coli. You see, THAT is what happens when you stop using modern synthetic E. COLI FREE fertilizers, and choose to use ANIMAL fertilizers (or, as in some countries NIGHT SOIL)!

... luscious breeding grounds for all kinds of nasty microbes. Take the dreaded E. coli, which is capable of killing people who ingest it. A study by the Center for Global Food Issues found that although organic foods make up about 1 percent of America's diet, they also account for about 8 percent of confirmed E. coli cases.

Organic food products also suffer from more than eight times as many recalls as conventional ones. Some of this problem would go away if organic farmers used synthetic sprays -- but this, too, is off limits. Conventional wisdom says that we should avoid food that's been drenched in herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides. Half a century ago, there was some truth in this: Sprays were primitive and left behind chemical deposits that often survived all the way to the dinner table. Today's sprays, however, are largely biodegradable. They do their job in the field and quickly break down into harmless molecules.

What's more, advances in biotechnology have reduced the need to spray. About one-third of America's corn crop is now genetically modified. This corn includes a special gene that produces a natural toxin that's safe for every living creature to eat except caterpillars with alkaline guts, such as the European corn borer, a moth larva that can ravage whole harvests. This kind of biotech innovation has helped farmers reduce their reliance on pesticides by about 50 million pounds per year.

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2334

[curtis123]

Nature has shown us that she has a very basic rule of population. Whenever there's a large population of some species, even plants, in a small area, there's inevitably a pathogen or some sort of disease that will eventually enter the area that will depopulate it. It's just the way nature works.

[sgtmac_46]

This is a timely topic given that it's the topic of the next episode of Penn and Teller's ******** is.

[Warning: The name of the show is ******** so some profanity may be involved......]
http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/home.do




....'The Organicson's'.....:)).....'Shaggy'....:))

[pennysworth56]

I share your fustrations-living in the northeast our growing season is but a few months out of the year. We do have some local farms that use greenhouses-but as you've already stated that can prove to be expensive. What I've relyed on are canned or frozen: canned for fruit, and frozen for veggies. Some of the canning/freezing can be done in your own house (if you have the time/space) or from specific stores or supermarkets-if you can find out where the produce comes from.

It's not a perfect system to have fresh, local foodstuffs year round. That's impossible for many of us in the northern climates. But there are alternatives to help make more responsible purchasing and eating decisions during the non-growing seasons.

http://www.paystolivegreen.com/2009/01/fresh-produce-hard-to-find-during-winter/

Actually frozen fruit and vegies are better for you than fresh from the market, as most times their
are frozen right from the farm. They are healthier as they have not lost their nutrients as when
they are shipped miles from the farm.

I use frozen all the time, they seem to taste better than fresh as they are riper than fresh too.

Other wise we have a garden in season.

penny

[Arya]

Organic food is a very clever marketing ploy.......nothing else.

You want to talk about the DANGERS of food products, so-called American factory farmed foods and pesticides aren't the danger......the pathogens produced in the kind of manure fields used to produce much so-called 'Organic' foods is, the kind that spread diseases like E. Coli. You see, THAT is what happens when you stop using modern synthetic E. COLI FREE fertilizers, and choose to use ANIMAL fertilizers (or, as in some countries NIGHT SOIL)!

What you are stating is interesting-has anyone died from these fertilizers used to grow organic food? Have they resulted in meat/produce recalls? Are they the cause or linked to diseases like Obesity, Heart disease, Diabetes, ADHD, Autism, and cancer? To the same extent as all of these have been linked with factory farming/processed food processes?

"Organic" food still isn't the perfect answer to our food industry and supply problems in the US. But foods that are at least 70% organic are still a helluva better deal than McDonalds, for example. The pesticides and pathogens that are produced as a by-product of farming can be improved-by both the industrial and "organic" growers overall.

The main contributors to the E.Coli and Salmonella outbreaks are still from factory farming processes, not the individual family/organic based farmers.

[Arya]

Actually frozen fruit and vegies are better for you than fresh from the market, as most times their
are frozen right from the farm. They are healthier as they have not lost their nutrients as when
they are shipped miles from the farm.

I use frozen all the time, they seem to taste better than fresh as they are riper than fresh too.

Other wise we have a garden in season.

penny


I agree-and during the non-growing season I do purchase more frozen or canned fruits and veggies. They have a tendency to taste better than what was picked and shipped across country and sold in supermarkets, IMO.

[Arya]

Nature has shown us that she has a very basic rule of population. Whenever there's a large population of some species, even plants, in a small area, there's inevitably a pathogen or some sort of disease that will eventually enter the area that will depopulate it. It's just the way nature works.

LoL. We've become a good agent for nature it seems.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

I don't know how relevant this is, but it is issues like these that have caused me to eat a largely vegetarian diet. What meat I do eat, I try to buy it as locally as is possible.

One thing that I dislike A LOT about most "fast food" is the added additives and chemicals. This on top of the excess (and in some cases, I would argue, dangerous) levels of fat in "fast food." These are major reasons why I tend to avoid establishments like Hardee's like the plague. (That and the fact that I don't like the taste of most fast food.)

I shall cease ranting and raving.....