Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

[toeknee]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

I know I sound like Andy Roony or Jerry Sienfeld but I want to know!

I may need to say GANSTA RAP has the N-Word and 4 letter words, not all rap!

http://www.1god1.com/images/andyrooney.jpg

[byzantine catholic]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

I know I sound like Andy Roony or Jerry Sienfeld but I want to know!

http://www.1god1.com/images/andyrooney.jpgIt is a derogatory term used against blacks and other races and ethnicities. Although I think that the young African American culture is ignorant using the "n-word" in their hip-hop.

[smyrna]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

I know I sound like Andy Roony or Jerry Sienfeld but I want to know!

http://www.1god1.com/images/andyrooney.jpg

Hatred.

[DRS]

So am I suppose to stop singing along with ruff ryders anthem?

[johnrocks]

I hate rap music so I never hear the word,don't listen or support things that you can't shout from the roof tops and be proud of,imho.

[super cool ski instructor]

Personally I am done caring....it is not a word that I use, but I will not censor myself either. If they can say....then I can say it...nobody has control over what I can and can't say.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

No one is keeping you from saying it. My question is why would you want to?

[Tulsa]

I don't listen to rap so I never hear it.

[Poisonshady313]

Hatred.

Really? A white kid listening to a Busta Rhymes album is hatred?

[Poisonshady313]

It is a derogatory term used against blacks and other races and ethnicities. Although I think that the young African American culture is ignorant using the "n-word" in their hip-hop.

Thank you for your commentary. Would you care to address the OP?

[Poisonshady313]

No one is keeping you from saying it. My question is why would you want to?

It would certainly make a great many more selections available on any list of karaoke songs.

[Alan J]

Thank you for your commentary. Would you care to address the OP?

They did address the OP. Although I kind of disagree. Of course, the term is derogatory and offensive. But neither of those facts prevent you from using it. So the OP's premise that white people can't use the word isn't true.

[Pauper66]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

I know I sound like Andy Roony or Jerry Sienfeld but I want to know!



It's only a word.

The only power it holds over you is the power you give it. If more people realized this, it would/could soon become just another meaningless word.

[Poisonshady313]

They did address the OP.

If the question were simply "Why can't white people use the N word", I'd agree with that... however, the question seemed to be a bit more specific than that, regarding why white people would listen to it, if/because they can't say those words.

[Alan J]

If the question were simply "Why can't white people use the N word", I'd agree with that... however, the question seemed to be a bit more specific than that, regarding why white people would listen to it, if/because they can't say those words.

Oh, that's pretty easy to figure out: they like the music, probably. But white people can use those words.

[captusa]

I think it's stupid to be using the euphonism "N" word.
I can't even say a person should not be called a -----------.
Recall the South Park episode where on password a character did not correctly answer for the letters N_GGERS "People who are annoying" was NAGGERS.
I personally think the "N' d should be used so often that it becomes desensitized.
(Anyone using it in the pejorative should be sanctioned)
The word is used by Afro-Americans in normal conversation.
Among my black friends I could not use the word no matter how often it was used.
I also recall that using the word "Canuck" north of Lake George, N.Y. would have produced similar results a using the "N" word on 125th St and Lenox Avenue.

[DRS]

I think it's stupid to be using the euphonism "N" word.
I can't even say a person should not be called a -----------.
Recall the South Park episode where on password a character did not correctly answer for the letters N_GGERS "People who are annoying" was NAGGERS.
I personally think the "N' d should be used so often that it becomes desensitized.
(Anyone using it in the pejorative should be sanctioned)
The word is used by Afro-Americans in normal conversation.
Among my black friends I could not use the word no matter how often it was used.
I also recall that using the word "Canuck" north of Lake George, N.Y. would have produced similar results a using the "N" word on 125th St and Lenox Avenue.

Hey who you calling a Canuck (can not call it the C word as something else has already claimed it)

By the way we named one of our hockey teams the Canucks

[captusa]

I hate rap music so I never hear the word,don't listen or support things that you can't shout from the roof tops and be proud of,imho.

I hate rap "music" too.
Interesting point.
I saw an interview with Ray Charles where he said rap was not really music.
Quincy Jones (who has done a lot of arrangement for Charles) not only says it's music but did a rap album with his son.

[Poisonshady313]

I personally don't care about the ultimate fate of the word. The word itself comes from that latin "Niger" meaning "black".

I just don't appreciate the double standard. It's either ok for everyone, or it's ok for nobody.

[captusa]

Hey who you calling a Canuck (can not call it the C word as something else has already claimed it)

By the way we named one of our hockey teams the Canucks

I know.
You can see how the word has been desensitized.
The same can be said about the word "Chicano"

Believe me.
If you called someone or referred to someone as a Canuck you would attract much unwelcomed attention from some very large people with French accents and you would be fortunate they left their axes at home.
It definitely was a pejorative.

[toeknee]

I hate rap "music" too.
Interesting point.
I saw an interview with Ray Charles where he said rap was not really music.
Quincy Jones (who has done a lot of arrangement for Charles) not only says it's music but did a rap album with his son.

So called rap (music?) is a lot of bashing of blacks and women,
I just dont get it! :doh:

[DRS]

I know.
You can see how the word has been desensitized.
The same can be said about the word "Chicano"

Believe me.
If you called someone or referred to someone as a Canuck you would attract much unwelcomed attention from some very large people with French accents and you would be fortunate they left their axes at home.
It definitely was a pejorative.

That is just the French they are grumpy at the best of times throw them some smokes and they will love you for life:D

[EnchantedFrog]

I don't listen to rap, but I've got an old Richard Pryor album that will make you laugh your ass off, and he used the n-word throughout.

[betwixt]

I remember having a conversation with my Father. He was not racist but did use a term the "old timers" used for blacks while my 14(?) yr old nephew was standing by. My nephew just had a blank look and later asked me who Grandpa was refering to so I told him....he didn't get it. This was in the early 80's.

It would be nice as our culture changes so does our slang.

[Samm]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

I know I sound like Andy Roony or Jerry Sienfeld but I want to know!

You are doing it wrong... According to the instructions on the packaging; if you are white you are supposed to stick your fingers in your ears and say "la la la la" whenever they use the N-word.

[OldSchoolConservative]

Personally I am done caring....it is not a word that I use, but I will not censor myself either. If they can say....then I can say it...nobody has control over what I can and can't say.

I am in total agreement.

[hillplus]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

I know I sound like Andy Roony or Jerry Sienfeld but I want to know!



IMO, it is because when they took the word and used it, then it lost some of it's power to hurt them. Case in point, I am LDS/Mormon. In the early years of the religion, the term "Mormon" was used as a derogatory term. When we take control of these words, they become less inflammatory. It hasn't worked as well for the n word, but I understand the desire to lessen the impact.

[Theranna]

While no one can stop you from saying the word, know that it is greatly offensive and it becomes 1000000000000 times more offensive when a white person says it. It sucks but that's what it is. It's a bad word all around, its history is too heavy toi dismiss as just a word.

[spearmaster]

My question is why do people of any color listen to rap in the first place?

[spinach]

My question is why do people of any color listen to rap in the first place?

rap in itself is not bad.
it's just a new style to America.
In fact, there are ancient cultures who used the form long before it came here.
It's just been adapted to modern tech.

what's bad is the content--
typically speaking of women in derogatory terms, and embracing drugs and crime.
Not much different than Rock.

[RealityCheck TellTheTruth]

IMO, it is because when they took the word and used it, then it lost some of it's power to hurt them. Case in point, I am LDS/Mormon. In the early years of the religion, the term "Mormon" was used as a derogatory term. When we take control of these words, they become less inflammatory. It hasn't worked as well for the n word, but I understand the desire to lessen the impact.

+1
What young African Americans did was drop the ****(ER) and spelled it N.*.*.*.(A) which means [Never Ignorant Getting Goals Achieve].

It depends on how you use it and often white people use the (ER) meaning. Now if you grew up around African Americans who uses that word and you're able to relate to what they been through, then you might just get a pass.

[Fitz]

+1
What young African Americans did was drop the ****(ER) and spelled it N.*.*.*.(A) which means [Never Ignorant Getting Goals Achieve].

It depends on how you use it and often white people use the (ER) meaning. Now if you grew up around African Americans who uses that word and you're able to relate to what they been through, then you might just get a pass.

for a painfully awkward (nsfw) explanation of the difference, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uvJzr0zZvk

[RealityCheck TellTheTruth]

for a painfully awkward (nsfw) explanation of the difference, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uvJzr0zZvk

:))

[CID_0687]

I don't listen to rap, but I've got an old Richard Pryor album that will make you laugh your ass off, and he used the n-word throughout.
I was gonna mention the same thing...In fact, the two albums of his that I have, have the "N" word in the title.

I agree with Ski, nobody can tell me what I can and cannot say, but out of respect for other people I don't say it.

[sgdp]

It's a matter of context. :eh:

[mgifford]

Personally I am done caring....it is not a word that I use, but I will not censor myself either. If they can say....then I can say it...nobody has control over what I can and can't say.

Good for you Cool! Actually it's time that white people weren't the only people in America to be called racists and told what we can and can't do. I agree with you. Plus, the op is wrong about the name being against anyone. It's a "slang" name like many others.

[mgifford]

It is a derogatory term used against blacks and other races and ethnicities. Although I think that the young African American culture is ignorant using the "n-word" in their hip-hop.

No it isn't! It's a "slang".

[Ninjacorpse]

While no one can stop you from saying the word, know that it is greatly offensive and it becomes 1000000000000 times more offensive when a white person says it. It sucks but that's what it is. It's a bad word all around, its history is too heavy toi dismiss as just a word.

Just a white person or anybody that is not black? Seems I beat tommy here, I am sure he will wander in here when he gets on tomorrow :razz:

[mgifford]

I remember having a conversation with my Father. He was not racist but did use a term the "old timers" used for blacks while my 14(?) yr old nephew was standing by. My nephew just had a blank look and later asked me who Grandpa was refering to so I told him....he didn't get it. This was in the early 80's.

It would be nice as our culture changes so does our slang.

Many white Americans have been labled "racist" because they have used that word in the past. People who do the labling are ignorant and need to get a clue.

[mgifford]

IMO, it is because when they took the word and used it, then it lost some of it's power to hurt them. Case in point, I am LDS/Mormon. In the early years of the religion, the term "Mormon" was used as a derogatory term. When we take control of these words, they become less inflammatory. It hasn't worked as well for the n word, but I understand the desire to lessen the impact.

When they "who" used it?

[mgifford]

+1
What young African Americans did was drop the ****(ER) and spelled it N.*.*.*.(A) which means [Never Ignorant Getting Goals Achieve].

It depends on how you use it and often white people use the (ER) meaning. Now if you grew up around African Americans who uses that word and you're able to relate to what they been through, then you might just get a pass.

African Americans from where in Africa? The name African American has caused more division in America lately than anything else. If all Americans used a "hyphen" before their name "American" it would be ridiculous. What about "Brooklyn Americans" for a starter? I say that about "hyphenated words, because using the AA status is only a way for the "race pimps" to get notoriety and money from black people.

[RealityCheck TellTheTruth]

African Americans from where in Africa? The name African American has caused more division in America lately than anything else. If all Americans used a "hyphen" before their name "American" it would be ridiculous. What about "Brooklyn Americans" for a starter?

Lol like as if Africans were in search of the American title when they landed in Virginia. Culture, name, family, freedom were all striped away and now I can't say African? Caused more division? Explain

[Theranna]

I'm curious though, why do some of you want to use it that badly? I'm Black and never use it...

And non-Whites who are racial minorities can get a pass when it comes to using it. Depends on the context.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Lol like as if Africans were in search of the American title when they landed in Virginia. Culture, name, family, freedom were all striped away and now I can't say African? Caused more division? Explain

I'd like to hear that one, too.

I think it's damn interesting that we never heard complaints about [whatever]-American before 'African-American' came into use.

[mgifford]

Lol like as if Africans were in search of the American title when they landed in Virginia. Culture, name, family, freedom were all striped away and now I can't say African? Caused more division? Explain

If those Africans were here today, they could say anything they wanted. Hyphenated names are a disgrace to anyone who was born in America and sits at an American table to eat the pleasures of same. We're AMERICANS, not hyphenated anything. In fact, dig up a slave and let him call himself anything he wants.

[mgifford]

I'm curious though, why do some of you want to use it that badly? I'm Black and never use it...

And non-Whites who are racial minorities can get a pass when it comes to using it. Depends on the context.

I remember when black people decided that they wanted to be called "black". So the whole country called them black. Now it's changed, it must be AA. You're a very smart man/woman and you probably got that way by statements like these. "Kudos" to you, American.

[BrittleBullet]

My question is why do people of any color listen to rap in the first place?

I've wondered why white people love country music so much...

[BrittleBullet]

I remember when black people decided that they wanted to be called "black". So the whole country called them black. Now it's changed, it must be AA. You're a very smart man/woman and you probably got that way by statements like these. "Kudos" to you, American.

Um. I still call black people black. I grew up in a predominately black city...
Oh well.

[CID_0687]

I'd like to hear that one, too.

I think it's damn interesting that we never heard complaints about [whatever]-American before 'African-American' came into use.
I gotta agree with Giff...the whole thing is pretty damn stupid. It's the whole thing about being PC...when I was growing up it was; Black, White, Hispanic, Oriental, Indian, etc...

Now you can't say Indian, it's Native-American...Wouldn't any person regardless of skin color, born in America be a Native-American?

African-American- Very few of our Black population are from Africa, yeah they can trace their history back to Africa, but someone like Obama would be a true African-American though, with a father from Kenya and a mother from America.

White stays the same...but, when you feel out a job application, or anything else that may ask for your race it's "White (Not Hispanic)" Shouldn't white people be "Anglo-Americans"? Seems to me they should if we're hyphenating everybody else.

Most people I know say, I'm black, I'm white, I'm an Indian, I'm Hispanic (or Latino)...yet that means they are not respecting their race? Unless their white of course.

[mgifford]

I gotta agree with Giff...the whole thing is pretty damn stupid. It's the whole thing about being PC...when I was growing up it was; Black, White, Hispanic, Oriental, Indian, etc...

Now you can't say Indian, it's Native-American...Wouldn't any person regardless of skin color, born in America be a Native-American?

African-American- Very few of our Black population are from Africa, yeah they can trace their history back to Africa, but someone like Obama would be a true African-American though, with a father from Kenya and a mother from America.

White stays the same...but, when you feel out a job application, or anything else that may ask for your race it's "White (Not Hispanic)" Shouldn't white people be "Anglo-Americans"? Seems to me they should if we're hyphenating everybody else.

Most people I know say, I'm black, I'm white, I'm an Indian, I'm Hispanic (or Latino)...yet that means they are not respecting their race? Unless their white of course.

MJ became a pathetic misfit because he hated his color. What a shame.

[CID_0687]

I'm curious though, why do some of you want to use it that badly? I'm Black and never use it...

And non-Whites who are racial minorities can get a pass when it comes to using it. Depends on the context.
What's your definition of "Non-white?" I'm registered with the Cherokee Nation, my ancestry gives me somewhere between 1/8 and 1/16 Cherokee blood...I also have a small percentage of Patawotomi Indian blood...but to look at me, and to hear my last name you would think only that I'm white, excuse me, Anglo-American.

[CID_0687]

MJ became a pathetic misfit because he hated his color. What a shame.
Agreed. Be proud of who you are, be proud of your heritage, it's what makes you, you.

[mgifford]

Agreed. Be proud of who you are, be proud of your heritage, it's what makes you, you.

Yes sir!

[EnchantedFrog]

My mother was a Morman and my dad was an orphan whose heritage will never be known.

Guess I'm a racially-challenged American. :confused:

[mgifford]

Speaking of being proud of your country and heritage. My fine, upstanding nephew has decided to join the "Guard". He's the first of all my relatives to go to war since I/we went to Vietnam. My father, when he was alive so loved this kid (now 26). He's so happy that he's going to Fort ? OK. for his basic, just as my Dad did in 1945
My mother and my two siblings, took a train the OK. to visit with my Father before he was shipped from training to France Strangely enough, I was born in 1945, one month before the war ended. I guess that was my contribution to the effort. I was conceived at the base before he left.

[betwixt]

I'm curious though, why do some of you want to use it that badly? I'm Black and never use it...

And non-Whites who are racial minorities can get a pass when it comes to using it. Depends on the context.

I grew up in a ethnicly diverse neighborhood. I was at one of my childhood friend's house (he was black) we were playing in the back yard with his Grandfather. Something was said about Americans and my friend replied about "he was different, he was an African American, huh Grandpa?". His Granddad looked at us and said "No, we are black, we are American's, and I'm a black man."

Been a long time ago, but that was the jest of what was said. We went back to playing and did grow apart but I'll never forget his Grandfather's words.

[JohnRandolph]

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs with the N-Word but cant say it?

At the risk of losing post count when this goes north and is all deleted....

Why do WHITE people listen to Rap songs

Why would anybody listen to inarticulate angry drivel? There is so much more that is entertaining and available.

N-Word but cant say it?

I've never understood the jealousy involved in one group being allowed an invective that is not allowed another. Why would anyone WANT to say it?

[See It Clearly]

Speaking of being proud of your country and heritage. My fine, upstanding nephew has decided to join the "Guard". He's the first of all my relatives to go to war since I/we went to Vietnam. My father, when he was alive so loved this kid (now 26). He's so happy that he's going to Fort ? OK. for his basic, just as my Dad did in 1945
My mother and my two siblings, took a train the OK. to visit with my Father before he was shipped from training to France Strangely enough, I was born in 1945, one month before the war ended. I guess that was contribution to the effort. I was conceived at the base before he left.

:flag::clap::flag::clap:

[mgifford]

:flag::clap::flag::clap:

Thank you. Correction, my Dad went to Ok. basic in 1944. I was born in 1945.

[Theranna]

I remember when black people decided that they wanted to be called "black". So the whole country called them black. Now it's changed, it must be AA. You're a very smart man/woman and you probably got that way by statements like these. "Kudos" to you, American.

You're assuming I'm a USA American... I'm a North American by way of Canada and general American by way of Haiti.

African American or Afro-Canadian is a fallacy of the politically correct movement. I'm Black or rather Brown... coffee with a light dash of cream or milk... but mostly I'm (real name here), far too complex to be defined by my pigmentation.

And Michael Jackson didn't hate being Black as much as he hated looking anything like his father... and considering what he suffered, no one should blame him for it...

[jeepers]

I'm sure if I were in my 20's, I'd be listening to rap. I'm not, I'm in my 40's so to me, most of it is noise. I've heard a bit that is catchy, and I've heard stuff that mad me angry.

I have no artistic appreciation for those who indulge in the most base of human nature. Gangsters, degrading women and perjoratives sung to music make me think that the person singing about it is basically, well...an idiot. A negative idiot.

Not saying that all rap or hip hop is negative by any measure. I'm sure that it isnt' and I'm no expert in it, either.

But I will say that the whole 'take a negative, make it our own thing' is well, frankly, crap. Because it hasn't been. It's still around being used negatively and I don't like it.

I'm white. Don't use the word, don't want to use the word and for the life of me, don't see the positive in embracing it. Personally I think that it's a word that shoudl have a stake driven through it's heart at dawn, generations ago.

So don't use it in front of me and then tell me that I'm uncool if I react negatively.

And before it's offerred up, I think the same way about people who do rock videos where women look like pole dancers and the singers treat them like meat. Their only saving grace is that they're not using the N word, but considering how base that stuff is, that's not really saying much.

I think that it's not a product of race, it's a product of YOUTH. The very young walk around saying shocking things and act like they came up with that idea. They act out sexually and act like they invented sex. Trust me, they didn't invent any of that. They're just holding onto it for far too long with rap.

So to me, it's sort of a stupid debate. It's like the emperor has no clothes. Guess what, the guy is nekkid and he looks like a dork. Call it what it is. Behavior that doesn't work. Even Madonna once said years ago 'sooner or later, you have to get out of bed'.

Yep.

[BillBrown]

The term "African-American" is an absurdity.
It isn't merely irritating, it is confusing and often inaccurate.

There have been several lawsuits, where a white South African has sued because he was denied the status of "African-American".

In the OJ Simpson trial, a county forensic examiner stated that a hair from an "African-American" had been found at the crime scene.

Simpson's lawyers ripped into her and made a fool out of her.
"How did you determine that this Negroid hair belonged to an American"?
She stuttered and stammered and had no answer.

[super cool ski instructor]

I've never understood the jealousy involved in one group being allowed an invective that is not allowed another. Why would anyone WANT to say it?

JR it has absolutely nothing to do with jealousy. I have no desire to say the word. I do, however, hate double standards. And I am not a fan of a certain group of people shouting out "racist" if someone uses a word that they use all the time. Sorry if you are fine and dandy with that...but I am not.

[mgifford]

You're assuming I'm a USA American... I'm a North American by way of Canada and general American by way of Haiti.

African American or Afro-Canadian is a fallacy of the politically correct movement. I'm Black or rather Brown... coffee with a light dash of cream or milk... but mostly I'm (real name here), far too complex to be defined by my pigmentation.

And Michael Jackson didn't hate being Black as much as he hated looking anything like his father... and considering what he suffered, no one should blame him for it...

I'm with you!

[Mithrastan]

Are you planning on introducing it into your vocabulary? Or is this just a rhetorical question?

Nobody can explain this phenomenon.

Flavor Flave had a tune discussing his opposition to the word, and might have used it more than any other rapper in any other song in history.

Many will set up a distinction between -a and -r variations of the word. While there are definitely some differences in intent of usage, they are the same.

I am white, but sometimes black people will fulsomely ingratiate themselves to me with the term. Also, a couple of white southern rich-boys I knew in college called me the term derogatorily.

I never use the term, not because I was told so by the media or some other powers that be. No, it's because my dad told me it was the worst, ugliest, most hurtful thing I could say about a black person.

[DLaw911]

I'm not a fan of rap music although there are some artists who have crossed rap and pop and don't use N or F words.

In the 1970's I worked as a school bus driver taking all white kids and all black kids to mixed raced. The kids were middle school and high school aged. I got to know my groups of kids because when the N word was used it resulted in one of two things - a fight or laughter.

The white kids used the word in general towards all persons of negro ancesty. Maybe they thought I could not hear them because the only time they would say it loud was when a kid would occasionally yet it out the bus window at someone else (which was 30 days ban [and a parent conference] from the bus the first time it happened, and PERMA-banned after that). Ironically one of those kids I PERMA-banned is now a Deputy Probation Officer who has told me I did him a big favor because he felt he needed to be put down for his big mouth.

The black kids on the other hand used the word exclusively towards each other on the bus and in some ways maybe to dillute its impact so that when they heard it off the bus, in a pejoritive manner, they could deal with it better. But they did have one word (the G word, referring to the largest order of primates), and when you heard it used it was guaranteed to result in a fight that I had to break up. Usually by the time I got out of my seat one of the kids was in tears because it was the ultimate discrimination -- lighter skinned black kids putting down one or more of darker skin. It was a real education for me. I had my personal informants on the buses, mainly girls, who would rat on the boys. So I knew who needed a talking to. But while I kicked many black kids off the bus for starting fights, I never suspended any for using the N word to each other. It was considered part of their culture, even in the 1970's, and probably well before then as well.

You know, if you think about it, a lot of people would be offended by being called a dog. But Randy Jackson makes a living out of doing it on American Idol. To me it's all in context and almost any word can, or be part of an insult, a praise, a pejoritive or a royal put down.

[DLaw911]

JR it has absolutely nothing to do with jealousy. I have no desire to say the word. I do, however, hate double standards. And I am not a fan of a certain group of people shouting out "racist" if someone uses a word that they use all the time. Sorry if you are fine and dandy with that...but I am not.You're not serious are you? There is no double standard. It's not the word, but the manner of it's use. When Michael Richards was shouting out the word at a comedy club it was 100000% intended as a racist pejoritive towards a person in the audience he did not like who, by more than chance and coincidence, happend to be black. When the KKK used (or uses) the word it's not to make friends with black, but to create hostility.

It's jusst like the F word. Many of us, probably the majority for all I know, use it to tell jokes, to express ourselves, to show surprise, or to let someone know what we think about them. When someone shouts that word out the window of their car than can expect the finger, a fist or a bullet in return. Again, it's the context. I disagree with any black person who says the word should never be used because it [the N word] can be a word of art, of respect or of history.

It's funny to use these words here as one letter "you know what I mean" references because if the word was THAT bad, then even the one letter reference should be banned. I was always taught that the F word was one of lack of vocabulaty. I cannot say the same about the N word.

[DLaw911]

In the OJ Simpson trial, a county forensic examiner stated that a hair from an "African-American" had been found at the crime scene.Johnnie Cochran was more direct and called it a negroid hair from his opening statement on. Maybe he felt he was being honest and the SID expert was being politically correct.

[Poisonshady313]

You're not serious are you? There is no double standard. It's not the word, but the manner of it's use. When Michael Richards was shouting out the word at a comedy club it was 100000% intended as a racist pejoritive towards a person in the audience he did not like who, by more than chance and coincidence, happend to be black. When the KKK used (or uses) the word it's not to make friends with black, but to create hostility.

It's jusst like the F word. Many of us, probably the majority for all I know, use it to tell jokes, to express ourselves, to show surprise, or to let someone know what we think about them. When someone shouts that word out the window of their car than can expect the finger, a fist or a bullet in return. Again, it's the context. I disagree with any black person who says the word should never be used because it [the N word] can be a word of art, of respect or of history.

It's funny to use these words here as one letter "you know what I mean" references because if the word was THAT bad, then even the one letter reference should be banned. I was always taught that the F word was one of lack of vocabulaty. I cannot say the same about the N word.

So let me get this straight. You don't think there would be any controversy and outlash if Eminem used the word in a song, synonymously with the word homies?

Not every white person who utters the word is Michael Richards... to say there is no double standard is ridiculous.


Remember if you will the Chris Rock movie "Down to Earth"... where he's singing a Ruff Ryders song... only he happens to be in the body of a rich white man, so he gets punched out for singing along to a song blasting from a black guy's car stereo.

That there is the double standard. You really don't believe it exists?

[betwixt]

I'm not a fan of rap music although there are some artists who have crossed rap and pop and don't use N or F words.

In the 1970's I worked as a school bus driver taking all white kids and all black kids to mixed raced. The kids were middle school and high school aged. I got to know my groups of kids because when the N word was used it resulted in one of two things - a fight or laughter.

The white kids used the word in general towards all persons of negro ancesty. Maybe they thought I could not hear them because the only time they would say it loud was when a kid would occasionally yet it out the bus window at someone else (which was 30 days ban [and a parent conference] from the bus the first time it happened, and PERMA-banned after that). Ironically one of those kids I PERMA-banned is now a Deputy Probation Officer who has told me I did him a big favor because he felt he needed to be put down for his big mouth.

The black kids on the other hand used the word exclusively towards each other on the bus and in some ways maybe to dillute its impact so that when they heard it off the bus, in a pejoritive manner, they could deal with it better. But they did have one word (the G word, referring to the largest order of primates), and when you heard it used it was guaranteed to result in a fight that I had to break up. Usually by the time I got out of my seat one of the kids was in tears because it was the ultimate discrimination -- lighter skinned black kids putting down one or more of darker skin. It was a real education for me. I had my personal informants on the buses, mainly girls, who would rat on the boys. So I knew who needed a talking to. But while I kicked many black kids off the bus for starting fights, I never suspended any for using the N word to each other. It was considered part of their culture, even in the 1970's, and probably well before then as well.

You know, if you think about it, a lot of people would be offended by being called a dog. But Randy Jackson makes a living out of doing it on American Idol. To me it's all in context and almost any word can, or be part of an insult, a praise, a pejoritive or a royal put down.


It does have many meanings.
As I got into High School my black freinds would call me the N-bomb and i'd call them "cracker" or "whitebread" we all laughed and made fun of each other.
We never did this around other black or white kids......

[DLaw911]

So let me get this straight. You don't think there would be any controversy and outlash if Eminem used the word in a song, synonymously with the word homies?It would depend on the context but, in general, there would be a presumption of inappriateness. But let's face it. The word is protected by freedom of speech so long as not to be used to incide a riot. Everyone knows Eminem makes a living out of shocking lyrics. He was perceived as a person to hate by the gay community and it took Elton John on national TV to rescue him. So it would be more acceptable for HIM to use the word, within relative contextual signifigance, than if say, Madonna suddenly released an album referring to Al Sharpton by that word. That would be a career ender for her and probably another hit record for Eminem. By the way I can't stand Eminem and if someone gave me one of his CD's it would become instant trash.
Not every white person who utters the word is Michael Richards... to say there is no double standard is ridiculous.Amazing how you read what I said to mean I don't believe there are double standards. Of course there are. I was making a specific comment about a specific thing that SCSI said which translated literally to her belief that there is always a double standard. And IMO it depends on the context. I can think of many people in the black community who believe that the use of the N word by any person, black, brown, white, yellow or green, is ALWAYS wrong and to be condemned.

Take the one word [beginning with a consonant] used as hatred towards Jews. Can you think of that word ever used except as a pejoritive attack? I can't. That's because the Jewish culture has not come to embrace the word with any type of fondness. I only mention this because there has developed a certain level of social acceptability to the use of the N word to show both hatred, dislike AND respect. I htink the N word stands out as unique in that manner and, to a great extent, I give credit to the black community for turning an ugly word into something that most blacks now consider a "so what" if used in a respectful context.
That there is the double standard. You really don't believe it exists?To repeat I never said that. I said it is an issue of context. In some instances it is a clear double standard. BTW didn't Jessie Jackson use the N word (I won't quote the entire phrase) to describe then candidate Obama and get put down for it by his own son?

[Poisonshady313]

I htink the N word stands out as unique in that manner and, to a great extent, I give credit to the black community for turning an ugly word into something that most blacks now consider a "so what" if used in a respectful context.


And if a white person ever tried to use it in a similarly respectful context, they might either be scorned, labeled a racist as if they had used it in the context of a slur or threatened with violence because of it.

Do you disagree with that assessment?

[DLaw911]

And if a white person ever tried to use it in a similarly respectful context, they might either be scorned, labeled a racist as if they had used it in the context of a slur or threatened with violence because of it.

Do you disagree with that assessment?I agree with you because you used the word I underlined (might). If you take out that word I wound not agree.

BTW if a white supremacist used the word to show respect he would be condemned by his peers for NOT using it to show hate. I'm just saying ...

[Poisonshady313]

I agree with you because you used the word I underlined (might). If you take out that word I wound not agree.

BTW if a white supremacist used the word to show respect he would be condemned by his peers for NOT using it to show hate. I'm just saying ...

I believe it is a most rare case that a black person would hear a white person use the word in the most positive of contexts AND not react in a most negative fashion.

[DLaw911]

I believe it is a most rare case that a black person would hear a white person use the word in the most positive of contexts AND not react in a most negative fashion.When you say "react" that encompasses everything from getting a little ticked off to protesting and calling for sanctions.

I'm not going to put myself in the mind of the average black person. For me hearing the F pejoritive for homosexual goes in one ear and out the other and only when it is said by someone spitting it in my face am I going to get upset. This could be construed as being an unfair comparison but, like the N word is used freely in the black community, so is the F gay slur used in the gay community and people don't care. Go to a gay pride parade and there are the fundamentalists with bull horns shouting out that word and others DESIGNED in invoke a negative reaction, and gays and lesbians just look at them and laugh.

[CID_0687]

You're assuming I'm a USA American... I'm a North American by way of Canada and general American by way of Haiti.

African American or Afro-Canadian is a fallacy of the politically correct movement. I'm Black or rather Brown... coffee with a light dash of cream or milk... but mostly I'm (real name here), far too complex to be defined by my pigmentation.

And Michael Jackson didn't hate being Black as much as he hated looking anything like his father... and considering what he suffered, no one should blame him for it...

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[toeknee]

I may need to say GANSTA RAP has the N-Word and 4 letter words, not all rap!

[jeepers]

And Michael Jackson didn't hate being Black as much as he hated looking anything like his father... and considering what he suffered, no one should blame him for it...

Blame him for 'what'?

Hating what he looks like because of his father, or the acting out with the plastic surgery? Two different things.

I don't blame him for having issue with his features if that was what was going on. I do know that he was a grown man and needed to know that he needed therapy, not a knife to the face. If he didn't recognize it, folks around him should have.

The guy was seriously screwed up and needed mental health services, not pills. But becuase he was rich and powerful, he could easily do what he wanted to do. He ended up dying as a result.

Lots of kids are abused every day in this world. You support them to be healthy, you don't support self destructive behavior. You don't blame the victim for the emotional fallout of their childhood, but you can certainly support them to be healthy and if they can figure out right from wrong, you can hold them to a standard for THEMSELVES. To help them move towards health...

Else you get what happened with Jackson.

There is also a certain point in life where you have to take your life by the horns and ride it yourself. As someone said once, 'sooner or later you have to stop blaming your parents and live your own life'.

Being abused doesn't automatically mean a terrible life. There are choices one can make and should make in that regard. If you want to see abuse overcome, read this:

http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?detail=aboutProduct&sku=1558743669&id=4299787#aboutProduct

[Poisonshady313]

The guy was seriously screwed up and needed mental health services, not pills. But becuase he was rich and powerful, he could easily do what he wanted to do. He ended up dying as a result.


At one point he became addicted to the pain pills after he burned his scalp as the result of a pyrotechnic accident. It's true, the guy had mental issues, strange behavioral patterns, and no doubt he was screwed up as a result of the abuse... but I don't doubt that he was also in some real physical pain.

[jeepers]

At one point he became addicted to the pain pills after he burned his scalp as the result of a pyrotechnic accident. It's true, the guy had mental issues, strange behavioral patterns, and no doubt he was screwed up as a result of the abuse... but I don't doubt that he was also in some real physical pain.

Yep, at some point during that physical trauma, yes.

But arguing for his issues is sort of like saying that his physical or emotional pain was special because of who he was. There is no doubt that he went through some **** in his life, but if you say 'well that explains is' it's sort of a set up for folks to be self-destructive unless you add 'but here's what you need to do instead'.

Every addict has a good reason if ykwim. Understanding isn't the same thing as saying keep going with what you're doing because you can justify it. Not out of judgement but because it's self-destructive and can kill you in the end.

The only thing special about him that ****es me off is that he had all of the resources in the world where he could seek help. He coudl get any doctor, go to any therapist, be in any program, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

He used that to get drugs instead of trying to help himself.

[CID_0687]

At one point he became addicted to the pain pills after he burned his scalp as the result of a pyrotechnic accident. It's true, the guy had mental issues, strange behavioral patterns, and no doubt he was screwed up as a result of the abuse... but I don't doubt that he was also in some real physical pain.
He would have had to been...All those years of dancing had to be hell on his legs and back...then add all of the facial reconstruction that he had done...Looking at photos of him from 1979-2009 the only way the guy could be identified would be dental records or fingerprints...completely different dude...that much plastic surgery had to be painful...I heard that when they found him there were all sorts of scars on his face, that we would never see, because we always saw him in full makeup.

Yeah he was in pain...the pain pills were justified until he started abusing them, and then trying to find the "next best thing" which was even harder, and an even greater risk of ODing.

[spearmaster]

I've wondered why white people love country music so much...

White people aren't the only ones who listen to it. I knew of a couple black men in my unit when I was on active duty that listened to country. Of course one of them was from Oklahoma and he rode bulls. Personally I don't like the so called country they have out now. Give me some old Johnny Cash or Waylon Jennings, now that's country.

[JeffR]

There's only one song I can think of that I like the has the N-word. When I sing it allowed, I substitute in "Whitey" or "Cracka."

[RealityCheck TellTheTruth]

If those Africans were here today, they could say anything they wanted. Hyphenated names are a disgrace to anyone who was born in America and sits at an American table to eat the pleasures of same. We're AMERICANS, not hyphenated anything. In fact, dig up a slave and let him call himself anything he wants.

Go tell that to the blacks that gets harrassed by the police. Go tell that to the blacks who end up dead or shot every year by cop. Tell that to the blacks who often get discredited due to the color of their skin. Just look at the job applications. AMERICA is what divides us when it comes to race. When those who are pulling the strings start treating blacks,brown and whites etc. as one, then we can reach an agreement.

[CID_0687]

white people aren't the only ones who listen to it. I knew of a couple black men in my unit when i was on active duty that listened to country. Of course one of them was from oklahoma and he rode bulls. Personally i don't like the so called country they have out now. Give me some old johnny cash or waylon jennings, now that's country.
+1000

[mgifford]

Go tell that to the blacks that gets harrassed by the police. Go tell that to the blacks who end up dead or shot every year by cop. Tell that to the blacks who often get discredited due to the color of their skin. Just look at the job applications. AMERICA is what divides us when it comes to race. When those who are pulling the strings start treating blacks,brown and whites etc. as one, then we can reach an agreement.

First off, you have a chip on your shoulder the size of Texas. Your way of still thinking that everyone's against blacks is why relations today aren't any better, exactly the problem today. You're still in the (can't get out of) the sixties and make my point exactly. In fact, your post sounds like a post from the sixties.

Cops shooting blacks? In my 23 years as a cop I never shot a black or anyone else. I never laid a hand on a black or anyone else. However, I arrested many, many blacks as they called me "pig" and said "you're just locking me up because I'm black", or "you we're just sitting there in your car, waiting for the first brother to come down the road, so you could write a black a ticket". Sometimes it was "why don't you find a white man to write a ticket to"? I wrote many whites also.

Of course talking to people who have a chip on their shoulder is impossible, so I'll just tell stories of my days policing days to anyone else who wants to listen. When my small city was very fast changing from almost "all" white to almost "all" black. I worked in one of the most wonderful, very low crime cities, of about 10000 citizens in my county.

Anyway, after I'd been there about two years, the blacks started leaving the "large city" to the North and moving into my county and city. As they came they brought the "hard drugs" and crimes with them. I never lived there and no longer work there, so I'm able to avoid that, no longer "wonderful city" at all costs.

Anytime a city goes 65% black around here, the mostly white, council, police chief and mayor are soon voted out. A few years ago the mayor, and the police chief, (both black females) nearly got into a fist fight, over missing money. In fact the mayor was on the news last week being accused of some shenanigans.

When my city made the change from a, "wonderful small town" to the best place to get drugs" in the area, I soon moved on and retired. Now were there always blacks in my city? There sure were, but they were good, hardworking American people, who strived to live the "American Dream" too.

Anyway, to get back to the beginning of my story. On weekends I sat in a certain spot where I could observe the traffic coming into the city, either from work, or from bars. I ran "radar" and was able to stop, or arrest for DUI, or simply write citations for speeding. At 1:am I wasn't able to distinguish the race of anyone that I stopped. However, I was generally confronted with, "you just stopped me because I'm black. Sometimes it was, "you were just sitting there waiting for the first innocent black man to come by". After a while officers started saying to them, "oh my wife's black", then all was pretty good.

Being a Christian man who strived to treat all people fairly, I became sick and tired of this very quick. To start with there's no way that I could tell what race the people in the cars were and didn't care. I was doing my best to "enforce the Law", which was what I got paid to do. Do I think these situations are some of the reasons that some people get mistreated? Probably, I didn't mistreat anyone, ever. Having just graduating from Bible college when I started policing, I wanted to help my fellow American as best I could.

The last time I did ride thru my former city, it reminded me of when Gerorge Bailey reentered his "wonderful" city to find it very, very different in, "It's A Wonderful Life". Am I accusing anyone of anything? I'm like Fox. I report you decide". I'm just telling my story. LOL!

One more point I want to make here. It's time you fellow police officers started standing up for your "honored" profession and giving it back to these people who accuse you of atrocities.

[poorblackman]

Personally I am done caring....it is not a word that I use, but I will not censor myself either. If they can say....then I can say it...nobody has control over what I can and can't say.

You think so? Try walking into some random black neighborhood and start call people that and you will see how long you will be able to say it.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

Just a white person or anybody that is not black? Seems I beat tommy here, I am sure he will wander in here when he gets on tomorrow :razz:

Don't even know where to start.

[RealityCheck TellTheTruth]

First off, you have a chip on your shoulder the size of Texas. Your way of still thinking that everyone's against blacks is why relations today aren't any better, exactly the problem today. You're still in the (can't get out of) the sixties and make my point exactly. In fact, your post sounds like a post from the sixties.

Cops shooting blacks? In my 23 years as a cop I never shot a black or anyone else. I never laid a hand on a black or anyone else. However, I arrested many, many blacks as they called me "pig" and said "you're just locking me up because I'm black", or "you we're just sitting there in your car, waiting for the first brother to come down the road, so you could write a black a ticket". Sometimes it was "why don't you find a white man to write a ticket to"? I wrote many whites also.

Of course talking to people who have a chip on their shoulder is impossible, so I'll just tell stories of my days policing days to anyone else who wants to listen. When my small city was very fast changing from almost "all" white to almost "all" black. I worked in one of the most wonderful, very low crime cities, of about 10000 citizens in my county.

Anyway, after I'd been there about two years, the blacks started leaving the "large city" to the North and moving into my county and city. As they came they brought the "hard drugs" and crimes with them. I never lived there and no longer work there, so I'm able to avoid that, no longer "wonderful city" at all costs.

Anytime a city goes 65% black around here, the mostly white, council, police chief and mayor are soon voted out. A few years ago the mayor, and the police chief, (both black females) nearly got into a fist fight, over missing money. In fact the mayor was on the news last week being accused of some shenanigans.

When my city made the change from a, "wonderful small town" to the best place to get drugs" in the area, I soon moved on and retired. Now were there always blacks in my city? There sure were, but they were good, hardworking American people, who strived to live the "American Dream" too.

Anyway, to get back to the beginning of my story. On weekends I sat in a certain spot where I could observe the traffic coming into the city, either from work, or from bars. I ran "radar" and was able to stop, or arrest for DUI, or simply write citations for speeding. At 1:am I wasn't able to distinguish the race of anyone that I stopped. However, I was generally confronted with, "you just stopped me because I'm black. Sometimes it was, "you were just sitting there waiting for the first innocent black man to come by". After a while officers started saying to them, "oh my wife's black", then all was pretty good.

Being a Christian man who strived to treat all people fairly, I became sick and tired of this very quick. To start with there's no way that I could tell what race the people in the cars were and didn't care. I was doing my best to "enforce the Law", which was what I got paid to do. Do I think these situations are some of the reasons that some people get mistreated? Probably, I didn't mistreat anyone, ever. Having just graduating from Bible college when I started policing, I wanted to help my fellow American as best I could.

The last time I did ride thru my former city, it reminded me of when Gerorge Bailey reentered his "wonderful" city to find it very, very different in, "It's A Wonderful Life". Am I accusing anyone of anything? I'm like Fox. I report you decide". I'm just telling my story. LOL!

One more point I want to make here. It's time you fellow police officers started standing up for your "honored" profession and giving it back to these people who accuse you of atrocities.


mg, I meant no disrespect towards you or any person in uniform who protected and served with honor. I wish every cop could tell a good story like yours but some feel that they are the law, so they can break them and for some reason it happens to be a black male who the police abuse their powers on. It happens a lot and I'm not just going by what's being said in the media, I'm talking about what I witnessed. Just being "AMERICAN" would be fine but its the system that is constantly reminding blacks who they are and how they got here.

Lol, I didn't mean to come off sounding like Al Sharpton.
I'm young enough to be your grand child ;)

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

The use of the N-word in lyrics is actually an interesting conundrum for me personally. I know hundreds of hip-hop records off by heart (I used it to beat my speech impediment), and of course I use the word if I'm reciting the lyrics, even if I'm with my black friends. I've gotten into a couple arguments over it, but the point is, why make music that I love and use the word so much if I'm not allowed to repeat it in the context of the song?

That said, I don't see how this is much different than "wop" or "dago;" if another Italian says it to me or referring to my people, it's all gravy, but if a non-Italian says it, I'm gonna bust his head.

And honestly, why would you want to use it outside of the lyrics of a song? There is really no reason for a white person to use it, because calling a black person that is likely to get you killed, and what's the point of calling a white person that? I can't tell you how many times I've been greeted by white suburban wannabe thugs like, "What's up my *****?" and I'm like, "Who are you talking to? Me? You can see me, right?" It's baffling.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I rap along to the lyrics when I know them. That's it. I don't care what they are.

Wife doesn't like it though, so when she's in the car I just don't bother listening to rap.

[super cool ski instructor]

You think so? Try walking into some random black neighborhood and start call people that and you will see how long you will be able to say it.

And THAT is the issue here. Thanks so much for proving the double standard.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

And THAT is the issue here. Thanks so much for proving the double standard.

Oh, let's not act like white people don't use the word when black people aren't around, whether as a pejorative or just quoting a Dave Chappelle line.

[super cool ski instructor]

Oh, let's not act like white people don't use the word when black people aren't around, whether as a pejorative or just quoting a Dave Chappelle line.

That's not the point and you know it.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Oh, let's not act like white people don't use the word when black people aren't around, whether as a pejorative or just quoting a Dave Chappelle line.
The only Dave Chappelle bit I can directly quote is the bit about the President being a cokehead

[jeepers]

mg, I meant no disrespect towards you or any person in uniform who protected and served with honor. I wish every cop could tell a good story like yours but some feel that they are the law, so they can break them and for some reason it happens to be a black male who the police abuse their powers on. It happens a lot and I'm not just going by what's being said in the media, I'm talking about what I witnessed. Just being "AMERICAN" would be fine but its the system that is constantly reminding blacks who they are and how they got here.

Lol, I didn't mean to come off sounding like Al Sharpton.
I'm young enough to be your grand child ;)

*young whippersnapper alert*

:lol:

[jeepers]

Oh, let's not act like white people don't use the word when black people aren't around, whether as a pejorative or just quoting a Dave Chappelle line.


Be careful there. This is the sort of thing that ****es me off. Implied racism even if it's not demonstrated.

I don't use the word. I think that I've heard it said in my presence about three times in my entire 48 years.

I don't use it, don't think it, don't make perjorative remarks. I also don't watch Dave Chappelle. I don't hear it in conversaton, either with the most liberal or the most conservative, no matter what the ethnic background. I've lived on the coast and currently am living in massive midwest suburbia. Been here five years, haven't heard it even once. NOT ONCE. Not the word, and not a negative word about african americans. Never.

I have had a couple of conversations about the usage of the word with close friends when it comes up in the media with regards to rap lyrics. We're sitting there going, we dont' get it. The only stories that I've heard are the rare 'this old fart was running his mouth' when I was 15, sort of thing.

Please don't kneejerk this attitude. Save it for those who actually do negative things. It hurts those of us that aren't like that and I daresay that there are a LOT more of us out here than you give credit to. A helluva lot more.

[DLaw911]

You think so? Try walking into some random black neighborhood and start call people that and you will see how long you will be able to say it.But that does not make it a double standard. You call that inciting a riot because there would be no other legitimate reason to use the word.

By the way the premise of this thread implies that the black community embraces rap, in particular N-rap, and I doubt that is true. Fortunately (or unfortunately) no one is going to post the actual lyrics here but it seems the use of the word, along with gratuitous references to rape and parts of the female anatomy, really have little context to anything except squeezing them all into a structure that can be vocalized to a repetitive beat. People who hate or don't like rap are probably more offended by these other words than they are the N word.

There is also the question of marketing and changing cultures. At one time the Grammys shunned rap, but they were finally admitted under a special category. Around the same time gangsta clothes became hip among teenagers. Clothing that was "probable cause" for cops suddenly became the style in the white community. I'm not even going to attempt to explain it except to say like anything else we have trends. Maybe next year the teenage fashion trend will be to dress like Bruno. What seems clear to me is that trends are a sign of rebellion of the status quo, and they are the perfect example of what not to wear and how not to look to be successful in the general business world.

Back to the use of the N word if you think about it the word has evolved into a verbal weapon for the exclusive use of the black community. Sort of like "We have nukes, we can use them and you can't." That gives them tremendous power, coming really close to "I can use that word but if YOU use it I'll kill you." To say "double standard" implies unintended. I believe the black community has developed by both accident AND design, enabled by civil rights leaders such as Sharpton, an embrace of the word into a major Catch 22. Sort of like suckering the white community into using the word and, when they do, seeking out and destroying those who do.

Take Michael Richards. I have to wonder if the flagrant use of the word in the black community somehow influenced his judgment into believing it was OK to use the word and direct it towards a black audience member in a hostile manner. Who knows?!? But in the end the only way to save his career was to come in on all fours like a female dog and plead to Al Sharpton for forgiveness. Same with Don Imus who let his lips run free and loose when commenting about black female basketball players. I cannot help but feel that HE felt secure using the words BECAUSE they have become acceptable in and among the black community. And then there was Don on all fours licking Sharpton's shoes. That's the pattern. The literally hijacking of a racial epithet by the every people who should be most offended by it, who now claim to have the exclusive license to use the word.

No, it's not a double-standard. It's OWNERSHIP of a word by the black community.

[notluzn]

I'll stop listening to my NWA CD.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

<snip>By the way the premise of this thread implies that the black community embraces rap, in particular N-rap, and I doubt that is true.

It's true. Anyone under forty just about. You can take that to the bank.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) no one is going to post the actual lyrics here but it seems the use of the word, along with gratuitous references to rape and parts of the female anatomy, really have little context to anything except squeezing them all into a structure that can be vocalized to a repetitive beat.<snip>

That's not true. Just because you don't understand what it means doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.

[DLaw911]

I'll stop listening to my NWA CD.I met Eric Wright on several occasions and I have represented a couple of gangsa rappers. To my ignorance I once walked into the Compton Courthouse with a client charged with DUI and he was hit on for autographs every where he went. Even the court bailiff got one. But you would never know by talking to them that they were into that type of music.

I got the impression that it was all about the love of performing and making money. Just like any other form of entertainment.

[DLaw911]

That's not true. Just because you don't understand what it means doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.But you have to first be able to understand the words and know what is being said. A lot of people miss everthing except the occasional H, F, N or B so out of context t hey don't make any sense and appear to be random.

I'm not a connoisseur of rap so for me to quote any lyrics I would have to look them up.

[FidelisAdMortem]

On a sidenote the wutangs gza is requesting police protection in New Jersey b/c he fears his life is in danger from rivals.

Hate the po po till you need the po po.

Holla.

[uncledoom]

On a sidenote the wutangs gza is requesting police protection in New Jersey b/c he fears his life is in danger from rivals.

Hate the po po till you need the po po.

Holla.

Hip hop rivals?

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

But you have to first be able to understand the words and know what is being said. A lot of people miss everthing except the occasional H, F, N or B so out of context t hey don't make any sense and appear to be random.

I'm not a connoisseur of rap so for me to quote any lyrics I would have to look them up.

As opposed to rock lyrics? I don't understand what the hell most of them are talking about.

There's hip hop you dance to, and there's hip hop you sit and listen to.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

On a sidenote the wutangs gza is requesting police protection in New Jersey b/c he fears his life is in danger from rivals.

Hate the po po till you need the po po.

Holla.

Sounds like ninety percent of citizens, period.

[DRS]

Probably not a good idea to sing along when your headphones are on at the gym.

[Poisonshady313]

Back to the use of the N word if you think about it the word has evolved into a verbal weapon for the exclusive use of the black community. Sort of like "We have nukes, we can use them and you can't." That gives them tremendous power, coming really close to "I can use that word but if YOU use it I'll kill you."

A double standard is defined as: any code or set of principles containing different provisions for one group of people than for another


What you've described certainly sounds like a double standard to me.

To say "double standard" implies unintended. What does that even mean?


Take Michael Richards. I have to wonder if the flagrant use of the word in the black community somehow influenced his judgment into believing it was OK to use the word and direct it towards a black audience member in a hostile manner. Who knows?!?
I highly doubt it. He was simply angry at a heckler, and verbally wanted to slap him in the face for interrupting his show. He wasn't trying to use it in an endearing way like many black people do.


But in the end the only way to save his career was to come in on all fours like a female dog and plead to Al Sharpton for forgiveness. Same with Don Imus who let his lips run free and loose when commenting about black female basketball players.

No sir. The Michael Richards situation is nothing at all like the Don Imus situation.

I cannot help but feel that HE felt secure using the words BECAUSE they have become acceptable in and among the black community.

I agree with this.


The literally hijacking of a racial epithet by the every people who should be most offended by it, who now claim to have the exclusive license to use the word.

No, it's not a double-standard.

Actually, it is.

It's OWNERSHIP of a word by the black community.

That's just a fancy way of describing the double standard.


If there's a word that, when used in a particular context, with a particular tone, can be uttered by one set of people, but cannot be by another set of people (using the same context and tone)... it is a double standard.

[Poisonshady313]

While I don't agree with Don Imus being fired, here is something Obama has said that I can agree with (and when I don't agree with much of anything he says, it says something that I found something I can agree with).

Obama, the first presidential candidate to call for shock jock Don Imus to be fired for his racist comments about the Rutgers University women's basketball team, has said it's troublesome to condemn Imus' "nappy-headed hos" slur without addressing similar language used by rap and hip-hop musicians.

At a fundraising dinner for the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus in Columbia, S.C., Friday, Obama said, "We've got to admit to ourselves, that it was not the first time that we heard the word 'ho.' Turn on the radio station. There are a whole lot of songs that use the same language ... We've been permitting it in our homes, and in our schools and on iPods."

Obama added that "If it's not good for Don Imus, I don't know why it's good for us. If we don't like other people to degrade us, why are we degrading ourselves?"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3045077&page=1
(emphasis mine)


Even Obama knows it's a double standard.

[CID_0687]

While I don't agree with Don Imus being fired, here is something Obama has said that I can agree with (and when I don't agree with much of anything he says, it says something that I found something I can agree with).



http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3045077&page=1
(emphasis mine)


Even Obama knows it's a double standard.
Yep.

I seem to recall a couple of years ago that Bill Cosby was getting some ridicule by the black community for speaking his mind on this subject, as well as other things he saw wrong with many people's behavior of his race in this country.

[captusa]

A double standard is defined as: any code or set of principles containing different provisions for one group of people than for another


What you've described certainly sounds like a double standard to me.

What does that even mean?

I highly doubt it. He was simply angry at a heckler, and verbally wanted to slap him in the face for interrupting his show. He wasn't trying to use it in an endearing way like many black people do.




No sir. The Michael Richards situation is nothing at all like the Don Imus situation.



I agree with this.




Actually, it is.



That's just a fancy way of describing the double standard.


If there's a word that, when used in a particular context, with a particular tone, can be uttered by one set of people, but cannot be by another set of people (using the same context and tone)... it is a double standard.

Imus's remark was non-malicious bad taste.
Michael Richards had a totally irrational moment.
When someone gets into a that type of rant it exposed both racism and insanity.'

I recall a black NFL player objecting being described as a "tough monkey".
"Tough monkey" is a single term and a compliment implying strong work ethic.
When an intoxicated Howard Cosell said "Look at that monkey run" it was racist.

[Poisonshady313]

When Busta Rhymes uses the word 47 times in one of his songs (and upon a quick look, he uses the word several times in just about every one of his songs)...


Apparently the word isn't so devastating to black people.


In fact there's a song called "real ***** roll call" by lil' jon & the eastside boyz feat. ice cube... uses the word no less than 97 times (in a song 4 min and 46 sec long).


Everyone knows and loves lil' jon. For those who don't know, he's the guy who has that unique way of saying "WHAT!" "YEAH!" and "OK!" in songs such as "Yeah" by Usher (a relatively family friendly song about a guy who spots a very attractive girl at a dance club, can't resist her, but has to "keep it real" because he doesn't want it to lead to anything too serious )


This usher, lil jon, and ludacris song became platinum in two years, being the most played song in 2004... so let us not pretend that these people are by any stretch of the imagination "underground".

I'm not sure where I'm going with this post... but this info is probably meaningful to somebody in some way.

[DLaw911]

A double standard is defined as: any code or set of principles containing different provisions for one group of people than for anotherI see your point and while you CAN deem it a double standard, I believe it goes well beyond that is more appropritely called hijacking of the use of a word. It's almost like a dare - "we can use it, I can say it, and you better not say it."

[mgifford]

mg, I meant no disrespect towards you or any person in uniform who protected and served with honor. I wish every cop could tell a good story like yours but some feel that they are the law, so they can break them and for some reason it happens to be a black male who the police abuse their powers on. It happens a lot and I'm not just going by what's being said in the media, I'm talking about what I witnessed. Just being "AMERICAN" would be fine but its the system that is constantly reminding blacks who they are and how they got here.

Lol, I didn't mean to come off sounding like Al Sharpton.
I'm young enough to be your grand child ;)

This is the thing. If you/anyone violate my rights as a human, American, police officer or anything else you're wrong. When those jackasses ridiculed me as I stopped them, when they broke the law, I was mistreated. When we mistreat a person simply to make another person feel good, we've digressed as a nation.

[Poisonshady313]

I see your point and while you CAN deem it a double standard, I believe it goes well beyond that is more appropritely called hijacking of the use of a word. It's almost like a dare - "we can use it, I can say it, and you better not say it."

A double standard being taken more seriously and enforced severely doesn't make it any less of a double standard... it just makes it a particularly unjust and egregious double standard.

[King Cantona]

Well I've only seen one person (to the best of my knowledge) use th n word live at a gig I attended and I'm still a great fan of his, Elvis Costello...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD_wmYI32sM

It was about 20 years ago at The Manchester Apollo...

[DLaw911]

A double standard being taken more seriously and enforced severely doesn't make it any less of a double standard... it just makes it a particularly unjust and egregious double standard.I'm not saying you're wrong.