Sick and tired of the Media -- Penn. pool story

[Silkworm19]

I very angry today at AOL, where the lead headline on their website reads "Banned over 'Complexion'" and shows a picture of a young black boy with a towel. The story beneath the clickable link is about ALLEGATIONS that a group of 65 black children were not allowed back to a private pool in Pennsylvania.

What gets me upset is that the headline is a statement, not a question. If there are just allegations at this point, why write it like that? We don't know the real story yet. I am against racial discrimination, but there is way more to this story. Anyone else agree here?

[penner01]

I very angry today at AOL, where the lead headline on their website reads "Banned over 'Complexion'" and shows a picture of a young black boy with a towel. The story beneath the clickable link is about ALLEGATIONS that a group of 65 black children were not allowed back to a private pool in Pennsylvania.

What gets me upset is that the headline is a statement, not a question. If there are just allegations at this point, why write it like that? We don't know the real story yet. I am against racial discrimination, but there is way more to this story. Anyone else agree here?It is disturbing, isn't it, how the media can embed an impression by the way they open a story regrdless of whether the truth of the story is even resolved yet. It's a practice they use regularly and totally dictates the slant of the story to create or convey a bias.

So, what's the story here? Why did the kids get kicked out and did they really get banned?

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

If there are just allegations at this point, why write it like that?

Because that was the excuse given by the president of the club.


So when 65 kids from a northeast Philadelphia camp were banned from taking a dip at a private swim club because of fears they would "change the complexion" and "atmosphere" of the club, they couldn't understand why.

Creative Steps Day Camp paid The Valley Swim Club more than $1,900 for one day of swimming a week, but after the first day, the money was quickly refunded and the campers were told not to return.

At first, there was no explanation, but some of the campers recalled overhearing comments about the color of their skin while at the club.

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion and the atmosphere of the club," swim club president, John Duesler, said.

[JudasGoat]

yep, lead headline but the family that was attacked by a bunch of racist, black thugs shouting "it's a black world" gets very little mention.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Creative Steps executive director Aletheah Wright says memberships were arranged through e-mail and paid for in advance, but when the kids showed up at the club, she says members made racially insensitive comments and took their kids out of the pool.

"One of the members was shouting out, 'We're gonna see to it that they don't come back anymore.' And two days later, Dr. John called me and said, 'Miss Wright, I truly apologize, I'm so embarrassed, but the membership has overthrown me in votes and you're not going to be able to come back to the club.'"

[jimjames418]

Statement posted on the club's website (http://www.thevalleyclub.com/).

The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism which are completely untrue.

We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.
I don't know the size of their pool, but having been an administrator in a school district with an olymopic sized swimming pool, I can tell you that 65 children would not be allowed at one time. State law says you must have one life guard for every 15 swimmers. And the more crowed the pool, the more danger for all involved.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Then perhaps he should have said that to start with rather than, "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion and the atmosphere of the club."

[John2598]

I very angry today at AOL, where the lead headline on their website reads "Banned over 'Complexion'" and shows a picture of a young black boy with a towel. The story beneath the clickable link is about ALLEGATIONS that a group of 65 black children were not allowed back to a private pool in Pennsylvania.

What gets me upset is that the headline is a statement, not a question. If there are just allegations at this point, why write it like that? We don't know the real story yet. I am against racial discrimination, but there is way more to this story. Anyone else agree here?

Maybe the headline is justified and then again maybe not. The word "complexion" doesn't have to apply to skin color, even though that's the first thing most people will think of when they see the headline and the picture together. One way or the other, the purpose was to attract attention and it did. It was a cleaver headline.

[Mojotiger]

Then perhaps he should have said that to start with rather than, "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion and the atmosphere of the club."

Yeah I don't see him getting out from under that one.

[jimjames418]

Originally Posted by EmmanuelGoldstein http://forums.hannity.com/firestorm/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=57540931#post57540931)
Then perhaps he should have said that to start with rather than, "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion and the atmosphere of the club."

Yeah I don't see him getting out from under that one.
If the club was set up for mostly adults, which a whole lot of those type clubs are, his statement makes sense.

Otherwise, he put his foot in his mouth.

[uncledoom]

Bad PR from the club. Never mind the alleged statements by the parents (what are "they doing here, etc). Thye told the camp that they were refunding the money because the "atmosphere" and "complexion" had changed. That sounds like, "We don't want you here...sorry." Then after the **** hit that fan, it changes to a safety matter. If that is really the case, be up front and say that in the beginning.

Yes, they are a private club and can do whatever they want....but they can also give a more specific reason instead of "Sorry, changed our minds. Take your money and go."

[uncledoom]

Side note...this reminded me of "Caddy Day" 12:00 - 12:15 from "Caddyshack"....

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

If the club was set up for mostly adults, which a whole lot of those type clubs are, his statement makes sense.

Otherwise, he put his foot in his mouth.
"Some of the members began pulling their children out of the pool and were standing around with their arms folded," Wright said. "Only three members left their children in the pool with us."

A club member told a newspaper that she understood the problem was the size of the group, not race. But Wright rejected that explanation, saying the club covers 10 acres with a "nice-sized" pool and a separate pool for younger children. The board, she said, knew that her group included 65 children, and none of them had misbehaved.


Their site is down (except for the statement posted above). But here is a google cache of their website:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:lKgt9xK-TWgJ:www.thevalleyclub.com/facilities.html+The+Valley+Club+facilities&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:RWNgw5UQG_AJ:www.thevalleyclub.com/memberships.html+The+Valley+Club+memberships&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[FOX Watcher]

yep, lead headline but the family that was attacked by a bunch of racist, black thugs shouting "it's a black world" gets very little mention.

The problem is that particular story doesn't pass the SMELL test. 3 guys were in a yard celebrating the 4th of July weekend, and all of a sudden 50 Black guys jump them for no reason?

Give me a break.

[EnchantedFrog]

The problem is that particular story doesn't pass the SMELL test. 3 guys were in a yard celebrating the 4th of July weekend, and all of a sudden 50 Black guys jump them for no reason?

Give me a break.
"Give me a break?"

Uh.... are you saying the white guy didn't spend 5 days in the critical care unit?

Or, are you saying he deserved it?

[penner01]

Creative Steps executive director Aletheah Wright says memberships were arranged through e-mail and paid for in advance, but when the kids showed up at the club, she says members made racially insensitive comments and took their kids out of the pool.

"One of the members was shouting out, 'We're gonna see to it that they don't come back anymore.' And two days later, Dr. John called me and said, 'Miss Wright, I truly apologize, I'm so embarrassed, but the membership has overthrown me in votes and you're not going to be able to come back to the club.'"So it begins to look like this is exactly what was in the first appearances.

[penner01]

Bad PR from the club. Never mind the alleged statements by the parents (what are "they doing here, etc). Thye told the camp that they were refunding the money because the "atmosphere" and "complexion" had changed. That sounds like, "We don't want you here...sorry." Then after the **** hit that fan, it changes to a safety matter. If that is really the case, be up front and say that in the beginning.

Yes, they are a private club and can do whatever they want....but they can also give a more specific reason instead of "Sorry, changed our minds. Take your money and go."
Well, "do what they want" might not be true when it could involve racial matters. They could be in for a tough ride if this is taken to task.

[Camp]

So is the lesson here never to reach out to urban groups that lose their pool or perhaps the lesson here is for groups to hold on to their pools as much as is possible as they are even tougher to replace.

Either way this story smells rotten from both sides and it all started with the best of intentions...

[captusa]

Statement posted on the club's website (http://www.thevalleyclub.com/).


I don't know the size of their pool, but having been an administrator in a school district with an olymopic sized swimming pool, I can tell you that 65 children would not be allowed at one time. State law says you must have one life guard for every 15 swimmers. And the more crowed the pool, the more danger for all involved.

If that was the case a reasonably intelligent club official would have said there were too many children for the club to supply sufficient supervision and not some stupid reason about complexion of the club.
People rarely avoid the truth if it is reasonable.

[captusa]

Their site is down (except for the statement posted above). But here is a google cache of their website:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:lKgt9xK-TWgJ:www.thevalleyclub.com/facilities.html+The+Valley+Club+facilities&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:RWNgw5UQG_AJ:www.thevalleyclub.com/memberships.html+The+Valley+Club+memberships&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The swimming area is approx 40' X 75' with an adjoining wading area 30' X40' using ruler on Google earth.

[tblaze]

I'm tired of the media putting the race card on everything.

""A couple of the children ran down saying, ’Miss Wright, Miss Wright, they’re up there saying, ’What are those black kids doing here?’""

What is wrong with that statement ? You get the answer "they are from a group that just signed up here" and then the conversation goes "cool"

What is wrong with that conversation ? why is it racist ? If a bunch of white kids show up at a predominatly black pool wouldn't they ask the same question ? I'm not offended from either side.

They state there were racial statements being made, Is that the worst they can come up with ? Besides that it is all heresay for one and for two it isn't the pool owners fault. Can they control what is being said ?

"Only three members left their children in the pool with us."

I really like this statement, a group outing, no one has a camera to take a picture of this so called incident ? Shouldn't that be the lead photo to the story ? So I'm not sure I believe it. Once again the pool owners have no control over what the patrons do, so why is it their fault ? Sounds overblown to me.

"The board, she said, knew that her group included 65 children, and none of them had misbehaved."

I heard they told the pool owners that they would probably bring 10 - 15 kids so wouldn't the safety concerns be true as mentioned ? If someone drowned wouldn't that be a problem ? A bunch of questions as to why they didn't do something or let that many people there at one time ?

Just like every racism story, the fact is you are guilty no matter what you do.

What I see happening is more businesses refusing to deal with such groups. Why take the chance ? If something goes wrong you are labeled a racist and shut down. Things go wrong and the world isn't perfect, if it isn't perfect the race card gets thrown out there.

"Wright said that the children were upset, and that she was looking for a psychologist to speak to them next week. Some have asked her whether they are "too dark" to swim in the pool, she said"

Really, are these kids really that traumatized that they need counseling to deal with it ? Get real ? They showed up to swim and told it was overcrowded they need to go home and now they need counseling, I've lived through much worse and didn't need counseling.

[captusa]

I'm tired of the media putting the race card on everything.

""A couple of the children ran down saying, ’Miss Wright, Miss Wright, they’re up there saying, ’What are those black kids doing here?’""

What is wrong with that statement ? You get the answer "they are from a group that just signed up here" and then the conversation goes "cool"

What is wrong with that conversation ? why is it racist ? If a bunch of white kids show up at a predominatly black pool wouldn't they ask the same question ? I'm not offended from either side.

They state there were racial statements being made, Is that the worst they can come up with ? Besides that it is all heresay for one and for two it isn't the pool owners fault. Can they control what is being said ?

"Only three members left their children in the pool with us."

I really like this statement, a group outing, no one has a camera to take a picture of this so called incident ? Shouldn't that be the lead photo to the story ? So I'm not sure I believe it. Once again the pool owners have no control over what the patrons do, so why is it their fault ? Sounds overblown to me.

"The board, she said, knew that her group included 65 children, and none of them had misbehaved."

I heard they told the pool owners that they would probably bring 10 - 15 kids so wouldn't the safety concerns be true as mentioned ? If someone drowned wouldn't that be a problem ? A bunch of questions as to why they didn't do something or let that many people there at one time ?

Just like every racism story, the fact is you are guilty no matter what you do.

What I see happening is more businesses refusing to deal with such groups. Why take the chance ? If something goes wrong you are labeled a racist and shut down. Things go wrong and the world isn't perfect, if it isn't perfect the race card gets thrown out there.

"Wright said that the children were upset, and that she was looking for a psychologist to speak to them next week. Some have asked her whether they are "too dark" to swim in the pool, she said"

Really, are these kids really that traumatized that they need counseling to deal with it ? Get real ? They showed up to swim and told it was overcrowded they need to go home and now they need counseling, I've lived through much worse and didn't need counseling.

I believe the situation was racially motivated and occurred pretty much as described.
I also think the charges of the level of trauma is financially motivated and not a fault of racism but of our litigenous society.

[grapabeaux]

There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion and the atmosphere of the club."

This doesn't say what you think it says. Read it again. There's nothing about race in this statement at all.

[uncledoom]

Well, "do what they want" might not be true when it could involve racial matters. They could be in for a tough ride if this is taken to task.

Exactly...

[ExDem]

Then perhaps he should have said that to start with rather than, "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion and the atmosphere of the club."

He said "a lot of kids, " not a lot of black kids. Of couse, libs ALWAYS look at people's skin color and make judgements based on that. :rolleyes: I understand that this isn't a water park that caters to children. A ton of kids could change the complexion and atmosphere. You do know that complexion has other meanings than skin color, right?

[uncledoom]

He said "a lot of kids, " not a lot of black kids. Of couse, libs ALWAYS look at people's skin color and make judgements based on that. :rolleyes: I understand that this isn't a water park that caters to children. A ton of kids could change the complexion and atmosphere. You do know that complexion has other meanings than skin color, right?

You can bet your bottom dollar that people will be watching to see if a large number of kids are ever allowed there again. Whether it be visitors, birthday parties for residents, etc.

[tblaze]

I believe the situation was racially motivated and occurred pretty much as described.
I also think the charges of the level of trauma is financially motivated and not a fault of racism but of our litigenous society.

I just wonder why you believe it was racially motivated. It very well could be but I think they knew ahead of time the club was made up of minority members. It could be because of the reaction of current members. It could also be alot of things. They accepted a club trying to help out when the public pools were closed, so it doesn't sound like the owners are racist to me. They tried to help out and something went wrong somewhere, so why throw out the race card ? You could also say they closed the public pools because they were used mostly by minorities. It's easy to make accusations. It's just too easy to throw out the race card nowadays. I don't believe this country is as racist as the papers and politicians would have you believe. Do you agree or not ? I think they have to make it an issue to write the news and have platforms to stand on.

I'll agree the trauma is financially motivated but also parents or adults trying to force their views on the kids, look at how many 4 year olds needed counseling after 9/11.

[StockMarket77]

The media will always portray black people as victims.

[OldSchoolConservative]

Bottomline at the end of the day is that ethics aside is that it is a private pool and they can do what they want. And quite frankly all the accusations whether true or not will probably NOT hurt this (clubs)pool's profitablity at the end of the day. Just the lastest sensationalist story for the media to cover.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

He said "a lot of kids, " not a lot of black kids. Of couse, libs ALWAYS look at people's skin color and make judgements based on that. :rolleyes: I understand that this isn't a water park that caters to children. A ton of kids could change the complexion and atmosphere. You do know that complexion has other meanings than skin color, right?
Yes. I also know that was a poor choice of words AND if the reason was safety (as they've claimed on the website), why did they not say this in the first place? Why did he tell Wright the members had over-ruled him and voted the kids out?

I don't know if it was racism or not. I suspect that it had something to do with at least some of the members' complaints. I also believe that some were offended by 'riff-raff' invading their private country club, regardless of color.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

You can bet your bottom dollar that people will be watching to see if a large number of kids are ever allowed there again. Whether it be visitors, birthday parties for residents, etc.

Yep. From the description, it was a very large L shaped pool. The director says the club knew there'd be ~65 kids using the pool.

[alexz2317]

yep, lead headline but the family that was attacked by a bunch of racist, black thugs shouting "it's a black world" gets very little mention.
Exactly, that's how bad the media is.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I just wonder why you believe it was racially motivated. It very well could be but I think they knew ahead of time the club was made up of minority members. It could be because of the reaction of current members. It could also be alot of things. They accepted a club trying to help out when the public pools were closed, so it doesn't sound like the owners are racist to me. They tried to help out and something went wrong somewhere, so why throw out the race card ? You could also say they closed the public pools because they were used mostly by minorities. It's easy to make accusations. It's just too easy to throw out the race card nowadays. I don't believe this country is as racist as the papers and politicians would have you believe. Do you agree or not ? I think they have to make it an issue to write the news and have platforms to stand on.

I'll agree the trauma is financially motivated but also parents or adults trying to force their views on the kids, look at how many 4 year olds needed counseling after 9/11.
I think it's clear the board (or maybe just the swim club president) approved it but the members clearly didn't; like I said above, I'm sure for some it was racist, for others it was more a class thing.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Bottomline at the end of the day is that ethics aside is that it is a private pool and they can do what they want. And quite frankly all the accusations whether true or not will probably NOT hurt this (clubs)pool's profitablity at the end of the day. Just the lastest sensationalist story for the media to cover.

If they 'rent' time out to groups outside their membership (which they did), then by law they cannot discriminate. Given his initial statement, the safety angle sounds more like CYA to me.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I saw a video of the pool. It's huge.

I bet people are going to be watching and counting how many go in that pool for the rest of the summer.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

State law says you must have one life guard for every 15 swimmers.

[John G. Duesler Jr., president of the swim club] said he was uncomfortable with the ratio of children to lifeguards - which was 10-1 when all the children were swimming at once.

[Talk2Bill]

if it was a matter of the ratio of kids to lifeguards then they would have said: the pool is full... and started a line. but they just refused to let them in. it was racism and the pool is going to get nailed over it.

[Samm]

if it was a matter of the ratio of kids to lifeguards then they would have said: the pool is full... and started a line. but they just refused to let them in. it was racism and the pool is going to get nailed over it.

How so? Would it have been racism if all the kids were white? I don't get your reasoning. If the pool is full or the life guard/swimmer ratio is at max it is full or at max - race does not come in to it.

BTW... This is a private pool... they have the right to refuse service to anyone for cause. Being at full capacity is cause.

[tblaze]

it was racism and the pool is going to get nailed over it.

I still don't understand why people just assume it's racism for a fact everytime it gets tossed out there.

I firmly believe that there is very little racism nowadays, just because they print it everyday and it looks bad doesn't mean it is really how the world is.

Am I wrong ? Do I just not notice it ? What do you think ?

On the other hand I'm not out looking to find it everyday, If you go around thinking everyone is being a racist your brain will find excuses to make you believe everything is that way.

[Samm]

I still don't understand why people just assume it's racism for a fact everytime it gets tossed out there.

I firmly believe that there is very little racism nowadays, just because they print it everyday and it looks bad doesn't mean it is really how the world is.

Am I wrong ? Do I just not notice it ? What do you think ?

On the other hand I'm not out looking to find it everyday, If you go around thinking everyone is being a racist your brain will find excuses to make you believe everything is that way.

Two words: Political Correctness.

[captusa]

How so? Would it have been racism if all the kids were white? I don't get your reasoning. If the pool is full or the life guard/swimmer ratio is at max it is full or at max - race does not come in to it.

BTW... This is a private pool... they have the right to refuse service to anyone for cause. Being at full capacity is cause.

It's not private if they rented the pool to outsiders.
Why didn't the club prsident mention the problem of capacity the FIRST time he was interviewed.
The words "complexion" of the club will be a shrine to his stupidity.

[captusa]

I saw a video of the pool. It's huge.

I bet people are going to be watching and counting how many go in that pool for the rest of the summer.

There won't be a lot of non-members around to do the counting.

[Samm]

It's not private if they rented the pool to outsiders.
Why didn't the club prsident mention the problem of capacity the FIRST time he was interviewed.
The words "complexion" of the club will be a shrine to his stupidity.

Lots of private clubs rent the use of their facilities to public groups. Doing so does not forfeit their private property status nor their right to refuse service for cause. As I said... an over crowded pool is cause to refuse entry.

I cannot answer as to why the club president did not mention that the first time. Maybe he did not think there was any reason to do so until this blew up in his face. Really... would it have made any difference to the witch burners?

[MrShotShot]

Private club, their rules, end of story.

[Remus Lupin]

Private club, their rules, end of story.

Well said!

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Well said!

Only until they offer their services to nonmembers...