What freedoms have you lost since Obama was inaugurated?

[yesterdaystomorrow]

Serious question. I hear a lot of panicky words and phrases being thrown around here. Like freedom and liberty are in grave danger and are dying, or we're heading towards being a "socialist" nation, or a "marxist one. Some are even talking about secession and revolution.

My question to you guys is :

What specific freedoms/liberties have you lost since Obama was inaugurated? Please no snarky remarks, put some thought into the posts.

[Buschb]

Serious question. I hear a lot of panicky words and phrases being thrown around here. Like freedom and liberty are in grave danger and are dying, or we're heading towards being a "socialist" nation, or a "marxist one.

My question to you guys is :

What specific freedoms/liberties have you lost since Obama was inaugurated? Please no snarky remarks, put some thought into the posts.

If I was a bond/share holder in GM....I would feel slighted

[darknessesedge]

lets see.
my money is going to the fed to pay for more crappola.

[Steel-W0LF]

Our freedom to not have the intrest on our National Debt be almost equal to our GDP...... The **** has not hit the fan yet, but I feel for the folks that dont see whats comming.

Having their head in the sand wont prevent the Mack Truck of social collapse from running them over.

[ThinkingMan]

Serious question. I hear a lot of panicky words and phrases being thrown around here. Like freedom and liberty are in grave danger and are dying, or we're heading towards being a "socialist" nation, or a "marxist one. Some are even talking about secession and revolution.

My question to you guys is :

What specific freedoms/liberties have you lost since Obama was inaugurated? Please no snarky remarks, put some thought into the posts.

The freedom of speech.

Although in all fairness, that was before he bought the presidency.

[SFC(R)L]

The right to buy a car, a house, or refinance a home without dealing with the federal government. And they are coming after my healthcare and house next.

[darknessesedge]

Our freedom to not have the intrest on our National Debt be almost equal to our GDP...... The **** has not hit the fan yet, but I feel for the folks that dont see whats comming.

Having their head in the sand wont prevent the Mack Truck of social collapse from running them over.

the left is taxing us and killing our economic base that gdp will be no longer used in the USA.

[Mountain Soldier]

Serious question. I hear a lot of panicky words and phrases being thrown around here. Like freedom and liberty are in grave danger and are dying, or we're heading towards being a "socialist" nation, or a "marxist one. Some are even talking about secession and revolution.

My question to you guys is :

What specific freedoms/liberties have you lost since Obama was inaugurated? Please no snarky remarks, put some thought into the posts.

I can't buy incandescent light bulbs any more.

[Jagergeist]

Almost all Americans have lost no personal freedoms or liberties. Some of the pre-election fears, like a comprehensive gun ban, have turned out to be false. Others however, like a massive increase in federal spending, are turning out to be completely true. I'm quite positive I won't lose any personal freedoms in Obama's 4/8 years in office but I am worried about the collective freedoms Americans will lose by high spending. In short, will I in later life or my kids and grandkids have the same standard of living tomorrow that I have today due to reckless spending.

[old guy]

If I was a bond/share holder in GM....I would feel slighted

gm stock was worthless before Obama took office.

[darknessesedge]

Almost all Americans have lost no personal freedoms or liberties. Some of the pre-election fears, like a comprehensive gun ban, have turned out to be false. Others however, like a massive increase in federal spending, are turning out to be completely true. I'm quite positive I won't lose any personal freedoms in Obama's 4/8 years in office but I am worried about the collective freedoms Americans will lose by high spending. In short, will I in later life or my kids and grandkids have the same standard of living tomorrow that I have today due to reckless spending.

my money IS a personal freedom.

[ThinkingMan]

gm stock was worthless before Obama took office.

Does that justify government takeover?

[No Spin Zone]

my money IS a personal freedom.

You mean 'right to hold?' No, I don't think he has taken away that freedom.

[No Spin Zone]

the left is taxing us and killing our economic base that gdp will be no longer used in the USA.

Okay name the last federal tax increase?

[ModerateVoice]

If I'm a banker who doesn't play ball............I'm out on the street

If I'm the CEO of a car company that the government doesn't like, I'm out on the street

My healthcare is going to be determined by the same people who can't run the DMV...........instead of having the freedom of choice to pick my own doctor. (despite the **** Obama keeps spewing)

Cap & Trade is going to tax me somewhere around $1200 year to fund something that will not improve my life, or the lives of my fellow Americans, one iota..........yet, we will lose the freedom to spend that $1200 in ways in which could have resulted in real & lasting impact upon our lives.

........yeah, that's a good start.

[darknessesedge]

Okay name the last federal tax increase?

they are working on it.

[No Spin Zone]

The right to buy a car, a house, or refinance a home without dealing with the federal government. And they are coming after my healthcare and house next.

You still have that right.

Basically the person who started the thread has been spot on with his post.

[No Spin Zone]

they are working on it.

Oh, okay you gotta be clear. So they haven't raised taxes?

Okay

And I assume you make over $250,000 a year?

[shannytown]

If I'm a banker who doesn't play ball............I'm out on the street

If I'm the CEO of a car company that the government doesn't like, I'm out on the street

My healthcare is going to be determined by the same people who can't run the DMV...........instead of having the freedom of choice to pick my own doctor. (despite the **** Obama keeps spewing)

Cap & Trade is going to tax me somewhere around $1200 year to fund something that will not improve my life, or the lives of my fellow Americans, one iota..........yet, we will lose the freedom to spend that $1200 in ways in which could have resulted in real & lasting impact upon our lives.



........yeah, that's a good start.
:clap::clap:Good one!

[darknessesedge]

Oh, okay you gotta be clear. So they haven't raised taxes?

Okay

And I assume you make over $250,000 a year?

if you think that the $250k + crowd are the only ones to feel it..you are wrong.

[Steel-W0LF]

:clap:If I'm a banker who doesn't play ball............I'm out on the street

If I'm the CEO of a car company that the government doesn't like, I'm out on the street

My healthcare is going to be determined by the same people who can't run the DMV...........instead of having the freedom of choice to pick my own doctor. (despite the **** Obama keeps spewing)

Cap & Trade is going to tax me somewhere around $1200 year to fund something that will not improve my life, or the lives of my fellow Americans, one iota..........yet, we will lose the freedom to spend that $1200 in ways in which could have resulted in real & lasting impact upon our lives.

........yeah, that's a good start.

:clap::clap::clap:

[No Spin Zone]

if you think that the $250k + crowd are the only ones to feel it..you are wrong.

Yeah I mean everyone making under 250 k felt it when Bush cut taxes. We lost a revenue of $500 billion, which increased the debt in this country. He also didn't cut spending, which you need to do when you decrease taxes. Were you complaining then?

[Cutiepie]

Okay name the last federal tax increase?



Clinton. I distinctly remember him saying that he was NOT going to raise taxes on the middle class and then coming back and saying, "well, I didn't want to do this but, I have to." He had the highest tax increase in history. But, the way GObama! the idiot is going he will have a higher tax increase then slick willy.

[ThinkingMan]

Yeah I mean everyone making under 250 k felt it when Bush cut taxes. We lost a revenue of $500 billion, which increased the debt in this country. He also didn't cut spending, which you need to do when you decrease taxes. Were you complaining then?

Were you applauding then, as they acted more like Democrats than Republicans?

[No Spin Zone]

Clinton. I distinctly remember him saying that he was NOT going to raise taxes on the middle class and then coming back and saying, "well, I didn't want to do this but, I have to." He had the highest tax increase in history. But, the way GObama! the idiot is going he will have a higher tax increase then slick willy.

Oh because that other guy said that left 'is' taxing us, which is present tense. Kind of confusing and the type of exaggeration I have come to expect from Republicans these days.

[Cutiepie]

Yeah I mean everyone making under 250 k felt it when Bush cut taxes. We lost a revenue of $500 billion, which increased the debt in this country. He also didn't cut spending, which you need to do when you decrease taxes. Were you complaining then?



I loved my tax cut under President Reagan, President Bush I, and President Bush II. However, I did NOT like the spending.

I don't like the raising taxes and spending at all. Don't take from me who is middle class and give to people who CHOOSE not to work. I know there are people who can't work and I don't have a problem helping them. It is the people who are more then capable of working that are sucking off the government's tit that **** me off.

[simssk]

The freedom to earn a good living, to dream the american dream, to desire to succeed. I can still do it right now but the successful people will be penalized. That is law that has been passed already but won't be felt for awhile. Will my grandkids have the desire to succeed if they are penalized for doing well?

By 2012, 2013 - they gotta wait until elections are over - taxes will increase to such an extent, it will not be worth the sweat and tears to be successful, only to have a large part of your income gone. The cap and trade bill said as much by providing rebates to low income families for loss of purchasing power. Not only is my purchasing power decreased but now I have to support someone else's purchasing power.

It is the future we are looking at that is so concerning. The legislation passed in the last several months are set to take effect after the 2012 elections. Since so many americans don't pay attention to what congress is doing until it begins to affect them - they won't feel it until it is once again, too late to do anything.

So many things will increase in cost because of this cap and trade. The freedom to drive a car of my choice will be limited if not removed completely. The ability to sell my house will be severely impacted.

Who is going to pay for the bailouts, the default mortgages, bad credit debt, increased cost of basic, daily necessities? Who is going to pay for that deficit?

My retirement fund has been cut in half. Many of my friends who planned to retire can no longer do so. Many are working two jobs. They refuse to go on governmental help.

The right to see fair and unbiased, honest journalism has gone the way of the highway. The media is so concerned about pleasing obama, investigative journalism is gone. Gerald Walpin, a man of character and integrity, is fired for investigating fraud committed by a a friend of obama's. Will any journalist investigate and report on this on one of the 3 networks? No.

Obama gets an hour infomercial and ABC does not allow a rebuttal. My right to know what other options are have disappeared unless I spend hours researching what this legislation could mean to our future.

The right to believe representatives of congress represent the desire of their district has also gone the way of the highway. Now, it's all about deals, 3:09 am amendments, corruption, threats, and dirty politics. Power and money. Questions aren't answered honestly, clear answers aren't given. Despite so many calls and emails during the debate today, with a large majority of those against this bill - it still passed. I've never seen as many angry americans as I have today. And its just beginning.

Our government was based on checks and balance. That is no longer there. It is a runaway, arrogant government that is not looking out for the people's best interest. To wit, the actual dealing for a vote on the house floor today. Disgusting.

Yeah, at the moment, my freedom is still intact. It's not that difficult to look down the road and see what the future has in store for individual freedom in this country. I no longer feel that extra income is disposable income. All income needs to be saved to weather the legislation this congress has passed.

[Cutiepie]

Oh because that other guy said that left 'is' taxing us, which is present tense. Kind of confusing and the type of exaggeration I have come to expect from Republicans these days.



the other guy? What are you talking about? Carter and Clinton raised taxes and it affected me the Middle class. You know how the dems ALWAYS promise to never ever raise taxes on the middle class and how they ALWAYS say they are going to give the middle class tax cuts. IT NEVER HAPPENS!!!! I am STILL waiting for my tax cut from Carter and Clinton.

[No Spin Zone]

Were you applauding then, as they acted more like Democrats than Republicans?

No, I'm a fiscal conservative. I can be convinced to vote Republican at anytime when Republicans grow up and start talking about policies other than tax cuts. I have seen no effort on their part to reduce spending, fix healthcare, or plan for environmental disasters to the economy (Not Global Warming). Its all talk and propaganda.

[ChaosControl]

The freedom of knowing I only had 1/300millionth share of 9 trillion in debt instead of 10 trillion.

[darknessesedge]

No, I'm a fiscal conservative. I can be convinced to vote Republican at anytime when Republicans grow up and start talking about policies other than tax cuts. I have seen no effort on their part to reduce spending, fix healthcare, or plan for environmental disasters to the economy (Not Global Warming). Its all talk and propaganda.

I agree with you.
the last 8 or so yrs of gop rule in congress/wh were not fiscally conserv.

[simssk]

Yeah I mean everyone making under 250 k felt it when Bush cut taxes. We lost a revenue of $500 billion, which increased the debt in this country. He also didn't cut spending, which you need to do when you decrease taxes. Were you complaining then?

Wow... which democratic office to you work for? For the House or the Senate. Just like to know who we are dealing with. It's always nice to see new people come and attack every single conservative post, as if they know everything.

[ThinkingMan]

No, I'm a fiscal conservative. I can be convinced to vote Republican at anytime when Republicans grow up and start talking about policies other than tax cuts. I have seen no effort on their part to reduce spending, fix healthcare, or plan for environmental disasters to the economy (Not Global Warming). Its all talk and propaganda.

Oh - sorry.

McCain called for an immediate spending freeze and was not going to let Bush tax cuts expire. Did you vote for him?

[Cutiepie]

No, I'm a fiscal conservative. I can be convinced to vote Republican at anytime when Republicans grow up and start talking about policies other than tax cuts. I have seen no effort on their part to reduce spending, fix healthcare, or plan for environmental disasters to the economy (Not Global Warming). Its all talk and propaganda.



and what GObama! the idiot and the dems are doing isn't all talk and propaganda?

[FernandoF]

No, I'm a fiscal conservative. I can be convinced to vote Republican at anytime when Republicans grow up and start talking about policies other than tax cuts. I have seen no effort on their part to reduce spending, fix healthcare, or plan for environmental disasters to the economy (Not Global Warming). Its all talk and propaganda.
A fiscal conservative would think it was the government's job to fix healthcare why exactly now?

[darknessesedge]

Oh - sorry.

McCain called for an immediate spending freeze and was not going to let Bush tax cuts expire. Did you vote for him?

to bad mccain didnt win.

[ThinkingMan]

to bad mccain didnt win.

Well, I think Mac was for cap and trade too.

But it would have still been a thousand times better.

[yesterdaystomorrow]

So far all talk of freedom "loss" has been about theoretical economic freedom for future generations related to an increase in taxation to compensate for spending increases.

[FernandoF]

So far all talk of freedom "loss" has been about theoretical economic freedom for future generations related to an increase in taxation to compensate for spending increases.Kinda like theoretical American homes being wiretapped? Things like that?

[ThinkingMan]

So far all talk of freedom "loss" has been about theoretical economic freedom for future generations related to an increase in taxation to compensate for spending increases.

And, the loss of free speech.

[RedStatePaPa]

A fiscal conservative would think it was the government's job to fix healthcare why exactly now?

I'd actually like a lib to tell me how it needs to be fixed.


Everytime I hear "fix healthcare" I think of the other lib talking point, "quagmire".

[darknessesedge]

Well, I think Mac was for cap and trade too.

But it would have still been a thousand times better.

that and
amesty was what I didnt care about mccain.
I still voted for him as the alternative was....eeewww

[ModerateVoice]

While Freedom of the Press still exists, the MSM is in the tank for Obama, and by extension has become a propaganda machine for Obama instead of reporting the news..........has the freedom of the press been lost, no, it hasn't. However, the responsibility of journalists to report news has been forever been replaced by editorializing the news in efforts to manipulate public opinion towards the bias of the media source.

Truth is a freedom lost via the relationship between LMSM media and the Obama administration.

[simssk]

So far all talk of freedom "loss" has been about theoretical economic freedom for future generations related to an increase in taxation to compensate for spending increases.

Not everyone lives in the here and now, instant gratification mode. Some of us actually plan on a theoretical future.

And not all loss has been economic. What part of the loss of journalistic integrity relates to increase in taxes, or obvious corruption and greed in congress, deals made right in public on the House floor during a debate.

You live in the here and now. We'll work on protecting YOUR freedoms in the future.

[ThinkingMan]

that and
amesty was what I didnt care about mccain.
I still voted for him as the alternative was....eeewww

As is typically the case in national politics.

Step 1: hold nose
Step 2: pull lever

[Wake-Up]

The right to buy a car, a house, or refinance a home without dealing with the federal government. And they are coming after my healthcare and house next.

These are rights or freedoms you have lost? Gee, wonder what country I live in then. I bought a car and a home in the last 3 months and I did not have to do anything differently than I did in mid-2008 when I last bought a car and some other real estate. For the cars I did not even have to prove my income, my credit score alone got the loan. For the house, standard mortgage application and last two years of W-2's.

No added government forms, no additional questions, two different banks between 08-09, car in 08 was a Toyota, this year a Mazda.

Healthcare is a concern but so is the uncontrolled annual increase in our expenditures for healthcare.

[darknessesedge]

As is typically the case in national politics.

Step 1: hold nose
Step 2: pull lever

agreed

[hatman]

I'd actually like a lib to tell me how it needs to be fixed.


Everytime I hear "fix healthcare" I think of the other lib talking point, "quagmire".

Let me preface by saying I have absolutely world-class health insurance through my company.

I don't know 'how' healthcare needs to be fixed, but something's wrong with the system if millions of uninsured people can use hospital emergency rooms for 'basic care' and those of us paying for insurance ultimately end up paying for it.

I'm at least willing to listen to all arguments how this can be 'fixed'.
Selfishly, I don't want any decrease in my benefits with my current plan.
p.s. My federal income tax marginal rate was 27.7% this year so I'm already paying more than my fair share.

[darknessesedge]

Let me preface by saying I have absolutely world-class health insurance through my company.

I don't know 'how' healthcare needs to be fixed, but something's wrong with the system if millions of uninsured people can use hospital emergency rooms for 'basic care' and those of us paying for insurance ultimately end up paying for it.

I'm at least willing to listen to all arguments how this can be 'fixed'.
Selfishly, I don't want any decrease in my benefits with my current plan.
p.s. My federal income tax marginal rate was 27.7% this year so I'm already paying more than my fair share.

wait until obama starts to tax it..
and then either you have to pay, or your employer will cut it or do away with it.

[darknessesedge]

These are rights or freedoms you have lost? Gee, wonder what country I live in then. I bought a car and a home in the last 3 months and I did not have to do anything differently than I did in mid-2008 when I last bought a car and some other real estate. For the cars I did not even have to prove my income, my credit score alone got the loan. For the house, standard mortgage application and last two years of W-2's.

No added government forms, no additional questions, two different banks between 08-09, car in 08 was a Toyota, this year a Mazda.

Healthcare is a concern but so is the uncontrolled annual increase in our expenditures for healthcare.

Healthcare is a concern but so is the uncontrolled annual increase in our expenditures for healthcare

so letting the govt take it over and tax us is going to fix it?:)):))

[Major Jim]

To be honest, none.

There's a lot of fear mongering going on, this government and this president are not out to get everyone or destroy America.

GM was a failed company (as was Chrysler), it was going bankrupt and it would have been a disaster if the government allowed it to happen in a non-structured manner. However, in lieu of providing GM with taxpayer money to sustain them, the government had to get some assurances that it will get paid back. If you are to lend someone money, you'd request some collateral in return. I doubt the government has this evil intention of taking over car companies. If you notice, the government didn't force Ford to take loans or declare bankrupcty, Ford is a healthier company and is much better run than the likes of GM and Chrysler.

The financial system almost collapsed and it would have a disaster of tremendous magnitude had Bush/Paulson/Bernanke and Obama/Geithner/Bernanke not come to the rescue. The government has no intention of running or owning banks. Again, in return for getting taxpayer funds, the government had to get some collateral and make sure the CEO's are not continuing with their past practices. The banks are paying the money back, with interest, and it's being done in an orderly fashion.

I still own my guns, I am paying less in taxes than I did last year, and frankly I don't buy the gloom and doom stories about the impending collpase of our currency or standard of living. I don't like how much debt the government is taking, but I think Regan would have done the same things to save the economy from the brink of disaster. Going forward though, I do hope Republicans gain back the congress and put a halt to uncessary spending and keep our national debt under control.

The democrats treated President Bush with disdain and distrust and all he was trying to do is protect the country and improve the lives of our citizens, he was a decent and well-intentioned man. I see republicans doing the same to President Obama. Most of our Presidents are decent human beings who take their responsibilities to protect us and improve our lives very seriously. The politics are different and we can't always see eye to eye on everything, but the level of contempt for our leaders has gotten completely out of control over the past decade or so, it's really sad to see.

[darknessesedge]

To be honest, none.

There's a lot of fear mongering going on, this government and this president are not out to get everyone or destroy America.

GM was a failed company (as was Chrysler), it was going bankrupt and it would have been a disaster if the government allowed it to happen in a non-structured manner. However, in lieu of providing GM with taxpayer money to sustain them, the government had to get some assurances that it will get paid back. If you are to lend someone money, you'd request some collateral in return. I doubt the government has this evil intention of taking over car companies. If you notice, the government didn't force Ford to take loans or declare bankrupcty, Ford is a healthier company and is much better run than the likes of GM and Chrysler.

The financial system almost collapsed and it would have a disaster of tremendous magnitude had Bush/Paulson/Bernanke and Obama/Geithner/Bernanke not come to the rescue. The government has no intention of running or owning banks. Again, in return for getting taxpayer funds, the government had to get some collateral and make sure the CEO's are not continuing with their past practices. The banks are paying the money back, with interest, and it's being done in an orderly fashion.

I still own my guns, I am paying less in taxes than I did last year, and frankly I don't buy the gloom and doom stories about the impending collpase of our currency or standard of living. I don't like how much debt the government is taking, but I think Regan would have done the same things to save the economy from the brink of disaster. Going forward though, I do hope Republicans gain back the congress and put a halt to uncessary spending and keep our national debt under control.

The democrats treated President Bush with disdain and distrust and all he was trying to do is protect the country and improve the lives of our citizens, he was a decent and well-intentioned man. I see republicans doing the same to President Obama. Most of our Presidents are decent human beings who take their responsibilities to protect us and improve our lives very seriously. The politics are different and we can't always see eye to eye on everything, but the level of contempt for our leaders has gotten completely out of control over the past decade or so, it's really sad to see.

the only reason your taxes have not gone up..yet..is that the govt is using debt to pass its programs.
take away their credit card and you and me and everyone else would be taxed to death.

[hatman]

To be honest, none.

There's a lot of fear mongering going on, this government and this president are not out to get everyone or destroy America.

GM was a failed company (as was Chrysler), it was going bankrupt and it would have been a disaster if the government allowed it to happen in a non-structured manner. However, in lieu of providing GM with taxpayer money to sustain them, the government had to get some assurances that it will get paid back. If you are to lend someone money, you'd request some collateral in return. I doubt the government has this evil intention of taking over car companies. If you notice, the government didn't force Ford to take loans or declare bankrupcty, Ford is a healthier company and is much better run than the likes of GM and Chrysler.

The financial system almost collapsed and it would have a disaster of tremendous magnitude had Bush/Paulson/Bernanke and Obama/Geithner/Bernanke not come to the rescue. The government has no intention of running or owning banks. Again, in return for getting taxpayer funds, the government had to get some collateral and make sure the CEO's are not continuing with their past practices. The banks are paying the money back, with interest, and it's being done in an orderly fashion.

I still own my guns, I am paying less in taxes than I did last year, and frankly I don't buy the gloom and doom stories about the impending collpase of our currency or standard of living. I don't like how much debt the government is taking, but I think Regan would have done the same things to save the economy from the brink of disaster. Going forward though, I do hope Republicans gain back the congress and put a halt to uncessary spending and keep our national debt under control.

The democrats treated President Bush with disdain and distrust and all he was trying to do is protect the country and improve the lives of our citizens, he was a decent and well-intentioned man. I see republicans doing the same to President Obama. Most of our Presidents are decent human beings who take their responsibilities to protect us and improve our lives very seriously. The politics are different and we can't always see eye to eye on everything, but the level of contempt for our leaders has gotten completely out of control over the past decade or so, it's really sad to see.

Nice post.
Welcome to the boards.

[Steel-W0LF]

Yeah I mean everyone making under 250 k felt it when Bush cut taxes. We lost a revenue of $500 billion, which increased the debt in this country. He also didn't cut spending, which you need to do when you decrease taxes. Were you complaining then?

It may not be a tax placed directly on anyone but companies. But when a companys cost of buisness goes up, who pays the bill??

Its not the companies, they will just pass the increased tax burden on to customers.

Now...who are the customers of power companies, shipping companies, and industry in general?? EVERYONE! Thats who...

So your little "You must make over 250K" wise crack is one of the dumbest, ignorant things I've seen in a long time. Take your head out of your 4th point of contact.

[WildGoose]

Serious question. I hear a lot of panicky words and phrases being thrown around here. Like freedom and liberty are in grave danger and are dying, or we're heading towards being a "socialist" nation, or a "marxist one. Some are even talking about secession and revolution.

My question to you guys is :

What specific freedoms/liberties have you lost since Obama was inaugurated? Please no snarky remarks, put some thought into the posts.

Primarily, economic freedom. The right to keep what we earn and not have it be stolen from us for things like Bailouts, Cap and Trade, and Universal Health Care.

Yes, I know it was started under George Bush; he fooled a lot of people into believing he was a conservative. But then again, we had to choose between a socialist traitor and a non-ideological muppet, so we went for the muppet. Frankly, I don't care about Rs and Ds anymore; they're all guilty. I'm so angry with the whole lot I want them all to be incarcerated at hard labor for the rest of their lives. If I had my way, half of them would be hanged with piano wire slowly, while their families watched, and their heads would be placed firmly and squarely in the entrance to the Capitol where all will learn from their example. That is how livid I am.

Every dollar that is taken from me through taxation and government fees and regulation is a dollar I can't use. That's means freedom is lost. That means I have to work extra hard and longer hours to enjoy the fruits of my labor and risk, which is lost time, and that's completely irreplacable.

Socialism takes away the most fundamental freedom we all enjoy, the right to keep and use what we earn as we see fit. It is more important than the right to free speech or the right to bear arms or the right to vote. A political vote is only done once a year, and often doesn't improve things. But without the right to keep what you earn and not have it be taken from you to bail out banks or auto companies or for pork or for subsidies or to pay for other people's retirement, welfare, medical care, or education, you have nothing! You are a slave. And I thought we outlawed slavery with the 13th Amendment.

We take this freedom so much for granted that we hardly think about it. But it's as important, I daresay, as life itself. Because your life doesn't belong to me, or to anyone else, least of all the Government. You should not recognize anyone's right to one instant of your life without your consent; and a simple vote is not a consent. Just because you voted for these thieves in Washington (we all did, Rs or Ds) doesn't give them the right to steal on your behalf or mine.

And really, they're not doing it on your behalf; they're doing it for theirs. To empower government to steal more money to line their pockets while the rest of us pays them.

Is that what you want? Because that's not what so many have fought and died for.

[old guy]

Primarily, economic freedom. The right to keep what we earn and not have it be stolen from us for things like Bailouts, Cap and Trade, and Universal Health Care.

Yes, I know it was started under George Bush; he fooled a lot of people into believing he was a conservative. But then again, we had to choose between a socialist traitor and a non-ideological muppet, so we went for the muppet. Frankly, I don't care about Rs and Ds anymore; they're all guilty. I'm so angry with the whole lot I want them all to be incarcerated at hard labor for the rest of their lives. If I had my way, half of them would be hanged with piano wire slowly, while their families watched, and their heads would be placed firmly and squarely in the entrance to the Capitol where all will learn from their example. That is how livid I am.

Every dollar that is taken from me through taxation and government fees and regulation is a dollar I can't use. That's means freedom is lost. That means I have to work extra hard and longer hours to enjoy the fruits of my labor and risk, which is lost time, and that's completely irreplacable.

Socialism takes away the most fundamental freedom we all enjoy, the right to keep and use what we earn as we see fit. It is more important than the right to free speech or the right to bear arms or the right to vote. A political vote is only done once a year, and often doesn't improve things. But without the right to keep what you earn and not have it be taken from you to bail out banks or auto companies or for pork or for subsidies or to pay for other people's retirement, welfare, medical care, or education, you have nothing! You are a slave. And I thought we outlawed slavery with the 13th Amendment.

We take this freedom so much for granted that we hardly think about it. But it's as important, I daresay, as life itself. Because your life doesn't belong to me, or to anyone else, least of all the Government. You should not recognize anyone's right to one instant of your life without your consent; and a simple vote is not a consent. Just because you voted for these thieves in Washington (we all did, Rs or Ds) doesn't give them the right to steal on your behalf or mine.

And really, they're not doing it on your behalf; they're doing it for theirs. To empower government to steal more money to line their pockets while the rest of us pays them.

Is that what you want? Because that's not what so many have fought and died for.
have your taxes gone up? Not WILL they go up in the future but have they gone up as of now?

[Mobulis]

It may not be a tax placed directly on anyone but companies. But when a companys cost of buisness goes up, who pays the bill??

Its not the companies, they will just pass the increased tax burden on to customers.

Now...who are the customers of power companies, shipping companies, and industry in general?? EVERYONE! Thats who...

So your little "You must make over 250K" wise crack is one of the dumbest, ignorant things I've seen in a long time. Take your head out of your 4th point of contact.


Then the problem is the companys that are passing the increased tax burden on to customers.

[EnchantedFrog]

have your taxes gone up? Not WILL they go up in the future but have they gone up as of now?
How many of these have gone up?

A LOT.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax

[old guy]

How many of these have gone up?

A LOT.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax


Other than the cigarette tax how many of those are federal taxes that have gone up since Obama took office? Oh yeah that would be NONE

[EnchantedFrog]

Other than the cigarette tax how many of those are federal taxes that have gone up since Obama took office? Oh yeah that would be NONE
So, old guy, do you perceive that NONE of the aforementioned taxes will NOT be increasing?

Take the tobacco tax, double it, then apply it to the US economy and you might get a fair picture of what is in store for your tax burden.

[Bluesgtr44]

Serious question. I hear a lot of panicky words and phrases being thrown around here. Like freedom and liberty are in grave danger and are dying, or we're heading towards being a "socialist" nation, or a "marxist one. Some are even talking about secession and revolution.

My question to you guys is :

What specific freedoms/liberties have you lost since Obama was inaugurated? Please no snarky remarks, put some thought into the posts.

Just as many if not more than those that were lost to liberals under Bush.......

[Clintville]

The freedom of speech.

And how does that make sense?

[agent_86]

Liberty - freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice

There isn't one aspect of your life that isn't regulated or considered off limits to those in Washington..

People have been duped into thinking that paying taxes are patriotic. So they willingly hand over their property and freedoms.

The original draft of the Declaration of Independence stated, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and property." It was only changed to the phrase, "the pursuit of happiness," so southern slave owners couldn't claim slaves as property.

By taking your money the government is taking your property and thus failing to uphold your god-given rights.

Obama has taken it to a whole new level with the amount of money he is printing which is, as I've pointed out, just another way to tax you.

You libs will figure it out sooner or later.

[AvgGuyIA]

We have all lost representation in Congress. Passing legislation without reading the Bill is not representative government.

[agent_86]

we have all lost representation in congress. Passing legislation without reading the bill is not representative government.

^^^ read that post!!!! This is what it boils down to folks!!! ^^^

[AvgGuyIA]

^^^ read that post!!!! This is what it boils down to folks!!! ^^^Thank you. Another Hannity poster pointed out that undeniable truth of life in another thread. I have taken it to heart and want to pass that message on to others. Because it is true, we have lost (or are losing) representative government.

[agent_86]

Thank you. Another Hannity poster pointed out that undeniable truth of life in another thread. I have taken it to heart and want to pass that message on to others. Because it is true, we have lost (or are losing) representative government.

I've been preaching that for a long time and have been laughed at repeatedly.

Join the choir. :hug:

[yesterdaystomorrow]

We have all lost representation in Congress. Passing legislation without reading the Bill is not representative government.

The people still vote for their representatives, thus, it is just as representative as it has ever been. When you have idiot people, you get idiot representatives.

[Charlie A]

The people still vote for their representatives, thus, it is just as representative as it has ever been. When you have idiot people, you get idiot representatives.

Good point, how many people have signed contracts without reading the fine print? Or even any part of it other than the title and the signature line? Isn't that in part responsible for the sub-prime crisis?

[EnchantedFrog]

Good point, how many people have signed contracts without reading the fine print? Or even any part of it other than the title and the signature line? Isn't that in part responsible for the sub-prime crisis?
They always miss that little part that says balloon payment. :))

[sgtmac_46]

Almost all Americans have lost no personal freedoms or liberties. Some of the pre-election fears, like a comprehensive gun ban, have turned out to be false. Others however, like a massive increase in federal spending, are turning out to be completely true. I'm quite positive I won't lose any personal freedoms in Obama's 4/8 years in office but I am worried about the collective freedoms Americans will lose by high spending. In short, will I in later life or my kids and grandkids have the same standard of living tomorrow that I have today due to reckless spending.

Turned out to be false?! :))

He's only been in office 5 MONTHS! :wall: :doh:

[Sneaky SF Dude]

Turned out to be false?! :))

He's only been in office 5 MONTHS! :wall: :doh:

Maybe he's saying it's over...

[old guy]

So, old guy, do you perceive that NONE of the aforementioned taxes will NOT be increasing?

Take the tobacco tax, double it, then apply it to the US economy and you might get a fair picture of what is in store for your tax burden.

well since most of the "taxes" you listed are state and local taxes how does that apply to Obama. And o fthe frderal taxes which ones has Obama said hes going to raise?

[agent_86]

They always miss that little part that says balloon payment. :))

No they don't. My mortgage broker tried to sell me on one and I refused and got a fixed rate loan.

If a politician says he's gonna legislate one way and then goes against his word, he's breaking his contract.

The problem is, congress does so much and hides so much inside a simple bill that most working people don't have the time or energy to catch it all.

We have lost representation because how washington now works.

[7ranz]

Ability to smoke clov cigarettes.

[Vaard]

Ability to smoke clov cigarettes.

thats not true......


you can order them from here....

http://www.clovecigarettesstore.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

United States customers may buy 1, 3 or 7 cartons or more as long for personal consumption only. Normally there is no duty taxes charged and passed custom clearance easily

[7ranz]

thats not true......


you can order them from here....

http://www.clovecigarettesstore.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

United States customers may buy 1, 3 or 7 cartons or more as long for personal consumption only. Normally there is no duty taxes charged and passed custom clearance easily
You. Are. Awesome.

I did not know that. Now if you'll excuse me I have some cancer to catch...

[tobybear]

Apparently we can be locked up indefinetly without trial if Obama deems it necessary!

[yesterdaystomorrow]

Apparently we can be locked up indefinetly without trial if Obama deems it necessary!

This was a policy of Bush, that Obama promised to alter, but did not. I'm ****ed about it, but that freedom was lost under the Bush administration.

There should be a provision in that law that states that American citizens can never be held indefinitely. Ideally, no one would be held indefinitely, but you have to start somewhere.