Where would China be Today if Bush Sr. Intervened in 1989?

[DuoSoft]

For all the critics of Obama's reaction/handling of Iran, where would China or even the U.S. be today if Bush Sr. intervened with China during Tianamen Square in 1989?

Just a few facts... Bush Sr. had many, many, many critics. Even from his own side. He even said in such a manner "that we need to respect the government of China". In any event, big changes occured in China after that without our "meddling" or bringing freedom to the Chinese people to the tune where AMERICAN companies bailed out on hard working Americans for the cheaper Chinese citizen.

Can't we use this significant event as a benchmark? Is Obama really so EVIL to conservatives for not sending in our military to the rescue, using threats, etc?

[Clamp]

Where would China be Today if Bush Sr. Intervened in 1989?

Cleveland?

[johnrocks]

[/B]Cleveland?

:))

[DuoSoft]

[/b]Cleveland?

LOL.... Would Walmart even exist? :idea:

[Maxstake]

For all the critics of Obama's reaction/handling of Iran, where would China or even the U.S. be today if Bush Sr. intervened with China during Tianamen Square in 1989?

Just a few facts... Bush Sr. had many, many, many critics. Even from his own side. He even said in such a manner "that we need to respect the government of China". In any event, big changes occured in China after that without our "meddling" or bringing freedom to the Chinese people to the tune where AMERICAN companies bailed out on hard working Americans for the cheaper Chinese citizen.

Can't we use this significant event as a benchmark? Is Obama really so EVIL to conservatives for not sending in our military to the rescue, using threats, etc?

Where would China be today if America had not deserted Chiang Kai-Shek, thanks to the likes of Marshell, Rosevelt, Trumen and Eisenhower??? Read "None Dare Call It Treason-25 Years later" by John A. Stormer

[PredFan]

For all the critics of Obama's reaction/handling of Iran, where would China or even the U.S. be today if Bush Sr. intervened with China during Tianamen Square in 1989?

Just a few facts... Bush Sr. had many, many, many critics. Even from his own side. He even said in such a manner "that we need to respect the government of China". In any event, big changes occured in China after that without our "meddling" or bringing freedom to the Chinese people to the tune where AMERICAN companies bailed out on hard working Americans for the cheaper Chinese citizen.

Can't we use this significant event as a benchmark? Is Obama really so EVIL to conservatives for not sending in our military to the rescue, using threats, etc?

This thread is moot.

Nobody is calling for Obama to bring troops into Iran.

He needed to side squarely with the protestors, because he's an idiot and has surrounded himself with bigger idiots, he didn't.

Total fail.

[DuoSoft]

Where would China be today if America had not deserted Chiang Kai-Shek, thanks to the likes of Marshell, Rosevelt, Trumen and Eisenhower??? Read "None Dare Call It Treason-25 Years later" by John A. Stormer

Can we focus on Bush Sr first? It's more recent. Besides.... we can go back a little further and disect what happened when we played around in Iran in the 70's..... look at that outcome.

[DuoSoft]

This thread is moot.

Nobody is calling for Obama to bring troops into Iran.

He needed to side squarely with the protestors, because he's an idiot and has surrounded himself with bigger idiots, he didn't.

Total fail.

As you were.

[Gopher P]

china feared reagan as much as russia did. it was reagan who bravely took fast enough both the soviets and chinese which led to the destruction of one country and the inner turmoil of another. now we see a third installment with iran which happened because of george W. bush

[WildRose]

You can't make any comparisons to Iran and China from twenty years ago.

At the time China could have easily fielded an army of 300m men. The only effect we could have had on china militarily would have been by using nuclear weapons.

Instead, constructive engagement proved to be the correct strategy and China is a much more free and open place today than it was then.

Unfortunately they are also quickly becoming an economic and technological superpower as well, so IF they ever become belligerant there will be no way to stop them without nuclear weapons.

[DuoSoft]

china feared reagan as much as russia did. it was reagan who bravely took fast enough both the soviets and chinese which led to the destruction of one country and the inner turmoil of another. now we see a third installment with iran which happened because of george W. bush

Really? So we have AMERICAN companies grovelling all over COMMUNIST China for business. China is still a Communist nation.... you know. And everything you purchase that's "Made in China" supports the communists and American companies that bailed out on America. Do these companies even deserve the title "American"? Do they even qualify for protections under our laws once they abort Americans for cheap labor abroad?

[samsaysit]

A comparison of apples to apples perhaps in your eyes DuoSoft but, the truth be known it is not quite the same comparison.

The world was a bit of a different place in 1989 for one and whatever the threat one could have assigned to China at that time it was not of a type or as real as the threat that the current leadership of Iran poses to a much different geopolitical environment.

Also, Bush Sr. was not on any sort of apologize for America stint across the globe nor was he seeking "engagement" in unconditional terms with China as Obama has said he is prepared to do with the leadership of Iran.

For all of the evils of China in 1989 they were not postulating for the elimination of Israel, nor were they sponsoring terrorism against the US, Europe and Israel. Something you might find easy to forget in your comparison but some of us don´t miss those small differences.

Also, Bush knew something about the Chinese leadership that Obama cannot possibly know about the Iranian leadership. China was in the process of seeking access internationally because they saw the state of their economy and knew that they had to open up. These thugs in Iran do not have that same sense of reality since they are looking at things from a much different perspective, especially Mr. Ahmadinejad who believes he is to usher in the twelft Imman from the well in Qum. If you don´t know what that means or understand it´s significance then you should not ever again make any statements about Iran until you have taken the time to read up on this very fundamental aspect of his belief system and that of the other leaders.

The Chinese were not functioning at all in this kind of eschatological fundamental and if for no other reason this would make your comparison invalid.

So, sorry to say but you fail a test of knowing what you are talking about and in just launching off into what most of the media and team drinking kool-aid Obama fans would like you and the rest of us to accept as their justification for the position they have taken (one by the way that you will see change over the next days as they get some more poll numbers telling them they are missing it). I am not nor have I ever been nor do I plan to drink anyone´s kool-aid.

You should try and kick it too!

Iran is not your father´s China and Obama is not nor could ever be George Bush Sr.

[johnrocks]

I wonder where China would be today if his son had not made them one of our chief bankers?

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

For all the critics of Obama's reaction/handling of Iran, where would China or even the U.S. be today if Bush Sr. intervened with China during Tianamen Square in 1989?

Just a few facts... Bush Sr. had many, many, many critics. Even from his own side. He even said in such a manner "that we need to respect the government of China". In any event, big changes occured in China after that without our "meddling" or bringing freedom to the Chinese people to the tune where AMERICAN companies bailed out on hard working Americans for the cheaper Chinese citizen.

Can't we use this significant event as a benchmark? Is Obama really so EVIL to conservatives for not sending in our military to the rescue, using threats, etc?

Like the rest of the world, they would be recovering from the nuclear war that resulted when America tried to intervene in China's affairs directly.

[samsaysit]

Really? So we have AMERICAN companies grovelling all over COMMUNIST China for business. China is still a Communist nation.... you know. And everything you purchase that's "Made in China" supports the communists and American companies that bailed out on America. Do these companies even deserve the title "American"? Do they even qualify for protections under our laws once they abort Americans for cheap labor abroad?
DuoSoft, simple answer, YES and one more thing--get into the real world, especially as it relates to China and as China relates to the world.

You have one correct statement, China is still communist. But, you have to also know a bit of what you are talking about on this one.

Politically, they are by definition communist but most of the rest of their society is not. They function as a capitalist economic system under a communistic political system.

Don´t get me wrong, I am not at all saying they are a model for free men and women to aspire to nor for any society aspiring to individual freedoms and human rights to model but, they are not a theocracy governed by mad men, like your buddies in Iran.

Also, just for a dose of practicality, China happens to control at the moment most of the outstanding debt of the United States whereas Iran has I believe zero US debt on their books. So, for all the evil of American companies doing business in China at least around $2.25 trillion dollars have been sent back to the US in the form of purchases of US Treasuries, something that Mr. Geithner and Mr. Bernanke go to bed at night hoping they will keep doing, as a matter of fact they are hoping they will do tomorrow morning as the US seeks to "borrow" another round of muti-hundreds of billions of dollars to help Mr. Obama run a few more weeks.

Still doesn´t make them ideal but does tend to keep things in perspective.

By the way, since 1989 I have not heard China threatening anyone with elimination or denying any soverign nations´right to exist.