San Francisco's new garbage law

[Alonzo Grimes]

Mr. Hannity spoke on his show a day or two back about his opinion of the new SF law requiring people to separate their waste into 3 categories: garbage, recyclable items, and food scraps. I forget the exact words but basically he thinks it's crazy. I assume he would also consider it an abridgement of people's right to throw their stuff AWAY.

It's funny, the people in charge of finding those places to serve as AWAY and in charge of getting the stuff to those places are getting nervous, in many locales, about finding adequate space for people to throw things AWAY.

Suitable MSW (municipal solid waste) landfills are difficult and time consuming to obtain because of the scarcity of appropriate land, high capital costs, local resident opposition, and government regulation. Several years are required to process an application, with no guarantee of success.

And that's in Texas, with more wide open space than many places:

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f0800/0873.pdf (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f0800/0873.pdf)

Solid waste officials here in California advertise a fair amount to encourage people to recycle because they know too well that landfill space is getting hard to find.

What's more, municipal food scraps are a valuable resource. The city of SF is making money from composted food scraps, while local farmers are using it to grow good crops for local consumption.

S.F.'s Scraps bring Joy to Area Farmers (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/01/MNF316N0CV.DTL)

Perhaps Mr. Hannity wants govt. to be our nanny and deal with the copious trash we produce but don't have time to intelligently dispose of.

[GA_LP]

Mr. Hannity spoke on his show a day or two back about his opinion of the new SF law requiring people to separate their waste into 3 categories: garbage, recyclable items, and food scraps. I forget the exact words but basically he thinks it's crazy. I assume he would also consider it an abridgement of people's right to throw their stuff AWAY.

It's funny, the people in charge of finding those places to serve as AWAY and in charge of getting the stuff to those places are getting nervous, in many locales, about finding adequate space for people to throw things AWAY.

Suitable MSW (municipal solid waste) landfills are difficult and time consuming to obtain because of the scarcity of appropriate land, high capital costs, local resident opposition, and government regulation. Several years are required to process an application, with no guarantee of success.

And that's in Texas, with more wide open space than many places:

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f0800/0873.pdf (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f0800/0873.pdf)

Solid waste officials here in California advertise a fair amount to encourage people to recycle because they know too well that landfill space is getting hard to find.

What's more, municipal food scraps are a valuable resource. The city of SF is making money from composted food scraps, while local farmers are using it to grow good crops for local consumption.

S.F.'s Scraps bring Joy to Area Farmers (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/01/MNF316N0CV.DTL)

Perhaps Mr. Hannity wants govt. to be our nanny and deal with the copious trash we produce but don't have time to intelligently dispose of.


Why is SF charging the TAXPAYER for hauling the garbage, then mandating the
composting which they then PROFIT from, by selling to the farmers? Try giving the taxpayer a break on his garbage bill and he/she might be more attentive to what is tossed. Personally, I composte, but then my wife and I also garden. BTW, they profit from the recyclables as well.

Typical government - always money hungry. I thought that trying for profits was evil capitalism?

[neoINDIE]

Dammit, your thread title had me excited there for a sec - I thought maybe they were getting rid of Pelosi.

[Dregun]

Why is SF charging the TAXPAYER for hauling the garbage, then mandating the
composting which they then PROFIT from, by selling to the farmers? Try giving the taxpayer a break on his garbage bill and he/she might be more attentive to what is tossed. Personally, I composte, but then my wife and I also garden. BTW, they profit from the recyclables as well.

Typical government - always money hungry. I thought that trying for profits was evil capitalism?

Yeah, the waste management system is a real commodity on the stock market!

The land isn't free, the garbage men don't work for free, the trucks are not free, the maintenence isn't free, the bulldozers arn't free, the staff doesn't work for free, the scales aren't free, the paper..computers..pens..pencils..health insurance..geez what is free?

Just because you didn't get a "taxpayer break" in your garbage bill doesn't mean this isn't a COST SAVINGS to you! Yeah, lets not recycle or seperate our garbage and fill up landfills twice as fast which means they need to buy more land but magically be able to absorb that cost and not charge the taxpayers more!

I don't advocate that people use TV for educational purposes but maybe you should watch some History Channel/Discovery Channel/Science Channel programs once in a while and see what is involved in "Waste Management".

Anything we can do to recycle or reuse more of our "trash" is a GREAT thing! It saves natural resources (the materials used to make those items) as well as keeping more land available for private use instead of landfill. The Government isn't using waste management as a means to produce massive profits off us. That is just another form of anti-governement fear mongering that is becoming very rapant lately.

[DRS]

I am not sure what the big deal is, here we already seperate our garbage into 3 different typer

Wet waste and food

Dry Recyclable

Non Recyclable

[GA_LP]

Yeah, the waste management system is a real commodity on the stock market!

The land isn't free, the garbage men don't work for free, the trucks are not free, the maintenence isn't free, the bulldozers arn't free, the staff doesn't work for free, the scales aren't free, the paper..computers..pens..pencils..health insurance..geez what is free?

Just because you didn't get a "taxpayer break" in your garbage bill doesn't mean this isn't a COST SAVINGS to you! Yeah, lets not recycle or seperate our garbage and fill up landfills twice as fast which means they need to buy more land but magically be able to absorb that cost and not charge the taxpayers more!

I don't advocate that people use TV for educational purposes but maybe you should watch some History Channel/Discovery Channel/Science Channel programs once in a while and see what is involved in "Waste Management".

Anything we can do to recycle or reuse more of our "trash" is a GREAT thing! It saves natural resources (the materials used to make those items) as well as keeping more land available for private use instead of landfill. The Government isn't using waste management as a means to produce massive profits off us. That is just another form of anti-governement fear mongering that is becoming very rapant lately.:((:((:(( There now, do you feel better after that little tantrum of a post? I'm a civil engineer - I know far more about landfills from the required course I had to take as an undergraduate than you will ever learn from 45 minutes on Discovery (got to account for the commercials). It included 3 required field trips to differently run landfills, one of which was privately owned. Have you ever seen, or smelled, a solid waste management facility up close? Most larger cities that I know of provide garbage service and their costs are much higher than the private companies and they are the only game allowed in town. Private companies are far more efficient and cost effective - I have never had municipal service that wasn't more expensive than private service. Since they have a monopoly, they have no pressure to improve services or control costs. Anti-government fear mongering? That is an inflamatory piece of hyperbole; what was "fearful" of the government in what I wrote? You miss an important aspect of American governance - they work for us, WE don't work for them. They are NOT our Lords and Masters, but our hired help and they are long since "too big for their britches."

[LouC]

...I forget the exact words but basically he thinks it's crazy....

Tell ya what Alonzo, why don't you find Sean's exact words in context and provide them here so we can put your rant against him up against them for accuracy?

Could you do that?

I don't listen to Sean's show so I have no idea how way off base your portrayal is of what he actually said, but I do know people who go from their memory in presenting what they thought they heard someone say are notoriously wrong.

Thanks

[pattyk]

the only thing you can recycle here now is newspapers, cardboard, phonebooks and cans.

[Alonzo Grimes]

Why is SF charging the TAXPAYER for hauling the garbage, then mandating the composting which they then PROFIT from, by selling to the farmers? Try giving the taxpayer a break on his garbage bill and he/she might be more attentive to what is tossed. Personally, I composte, but then my wife and I also garden. BTW, they profit from the recyclables as well.

Typical government - always money hungry. I thought that trying for profits was evil capitalism?
Patience, patience. The progarm is not producing THAT much profit just yet.

And hauling trash away, sorted or otherwise, is a service.

If they don't get programs like this working, they're going to have to charge the TAXPAYER even more to find new landfill sites, which are getting more expensive and further away all the time.

[Alonzo Grimes]

Dammit, your thread title had me excited there for a sec - I thought maybe they were getting rid of Pelosi.
Oh STOP!!! You're killing me!! :whistle:

[Alonzo Grimes]

I am not sure what the big deal is, here we already seperate our garbage into 3 different typer

Wet waste and food

Dry Recyclable

Non Recyclable
Yeah, well, Canadians are more advanced than Americans.

[Alonzo Grimes]

:((:((:(( There now, do you feel better after that little tantrum of a post? I'm a civil engineer - I know far more about landfills from the required course I had to take as an undergraduate than you will ever learn from 45 minutes on Discovery (got to account for the commercials). It included 3 required field trips to differently run landfills, one of which was privately owned. Have you ever seen, or smelled, a solid waste management facility up close? Most larger cities that I know of provide garbage service and their costs are much higher than the private companies and they are the only game allowed in town. Private companies are far more efficient and cost effective - I have never had municipal service that wasn't more expensive than private service. Since they have a monopoly, they have no pressure to improve services or control costs. Anti-government fear mongering? That is an inflamatory piece of hyperbole; what was "fearful" of the government in what I wrote? You miss an important aspect of American governance - they work for us, WE don't work for them. They are NOT our Lords and Masters, but our hired help and they are long since "too big for their britches."Oh yeah, private waste management is the way to go. Sort of like the private Mafia hazardous waste disposal firms. They find a lonely country lane and open the spigots, standing by with major firepower to back up their methods if need be.

I'm sure there are many honest, legitamate waste disposal firms but some things cannot be disposed of profitably.

[Alonzo Grimes]

Tell ya what Alonzo, why don't you find Sean's exact words in context and provide them here so we can put your rant against him up against them for accuracy?

Could you do that?

I don't listen to Sean's show so I have no idea how way off base your portrayal is of what he actually said, but I do know people who go from their memory in presenting what they thought they heard someone say are notoriously wrong.

ThanksRed herring. He spoke of it disparagingly. I doubt I could find the video and I'm not going to waste a half hour trying.

It originated in San Francisco. It involves recycling. It involves telling the public they must do this or that. Do you think Sean was in favor of it??

Give me a break . . .

[Getty Girl]

food scraps create the bacteria that break down all the other stuff.

[Alonzo Grimes]

food scraps create the bacteria that break down all the other stuff.
Yeah, right.

[hremom]

From composting on our own property (2 acres in Idaho) I have learned not all food scraps should go into the compost. Anything that is not plant based should not go into the compost pile. But I do give our none plant food scraps to the neighbors for their pigs.

The only problem I've ever had with a required recycling program is when they want us to do the work (the washing of cans, sorting of trash, and bundling of papers) and then want to charge me more for the "service".

[tislaw]

Patience, patience. The progarm is not producing THAT much profit just yet.

And hauling trash away, sorted or otherwise, is a service.

If they don't get programs like this working, they're going to have to charge the TAXPAYER even more to find new landfill sites, which are getting more expensive and further away all the time.


A service you PAY for.......thus NOT a service. Get it?

[tislaw]

Yeah, well, Canadians are more advanced than Americans.


If someone feels that way, they have the right/ability to immigrate to Canada.

[tislaw]

Oh yeah, private waste management is the way to go. Sort of like the private Mafia hazardous waste disposal firms. They find a lonely country lane and open the spigots, standing by with major firepower to back up their methods if need be.

I'm sure there are many honest, legitamate waste disposal firms but some things cannot be disposed of profitably.

I so want to use a filtered word here right now, especially as I personally know of the recycling business.

Demonize the majority who do it right by upholding the less than 1% who don't.

[tislaw]

Red herring. He spoke of it disparagingly. I doubt I could find the video and I'm not going to waste a half hour trying.

It originated in San Francisco. It involves recycling. It involves telling the public they must do this or that. Do you think Sean was in favor of it??

Give me a break . . .


This post espouses the kind of sentiment that makes me want to utter these words:

If you love government interverntion so much in your life, then go live under complete government rule.

Prisons are great for telling you that you must do this or that.

[DRS]

If someone feels that way, they have the right/ability to immigrate to Canada.

Checking checking checking

Sorry but we are all full up but if you leave your name and number I will call as soon as I have a vacancy :D

[BillyBobUSA]

If they ever do decide to t ake out all the garbage in San Fransisco, will there be anybody left?

[EnchantedFrog]

Around here I pay the city to pick up the garbage.

When I moved here 20 years ago, I set as many cans as I wanted next to my garage. The collectors took them down the driveway, dumped them and put them back.

Now, I have 1 single city-provided can. I must roll it to the curb or it doesn't get picked up by their robot can dumper truck. They have shaved their personnel from 4 people per truck to 1 driver. Yet, my fees have gone up repeatedly for decreased service.

And, if I want to recycle, they charge extra for that. They can kiss my big ole hairy ass before I will PAY them to help them do what I am paying for. I can imagine that they will just begin charging me anyway sooner or later.

[Alonzo Grimes]

A service you PAY for.......thus NOT a service. Get it?
What? Just about every service you receive, you pay for. The question is, do you get more bang for your back with this or that approach. I live in an area that's not primarily residential, I don't even pay for garbage pickup as it's privately contracted and I have the choice to pay or not pay.

It works out for me to store about a months worth of garbage along with debris from my various jobs, as well as recyclables in large garbage cans. I take all of it in one trip to the transfer station a few miles from my house. If I wasn't going to go anyway owing to my steady accumulation of construction debris, perhaps this would be less efficient than having curbside pickup. I can see that the efficiency of having curbside pickup for the average homeowner would likely be much more energy efficient than everyone making a special trip for their stuff.

Who knows. That's why people do cost benefit analysis.

But, any service you don't pay for, is a service you won't be getting for long.

[Alonzo Grimes]

If they ever do decide to t ake out all the garbage in San Fransisco, will there be anybody left?I live in the Bay Area and I think SF is over-rated: crowded, expensive, not real clean, and way too many street people.

However, it does have its nice points.

I'm not real impressed with people who don't have the honesty or guts to state where they are from in their profile slamming an entire city because of some widespread stereotype .

You've probably never been to SF, or were disappointed that you didn't automatically enter Shangri-la when you did.

[Alonzo Grimes]

If someone feels that way, they have the right/ability to immigrate to Canada.Oh yeah, some patriot I'd be, turning my back on the country of my birth in its hour of need. Plus, my mother is getting older, I'm not going to move thousands of miles away from her.

Your response above is tired and worn out. I see merit in observing the behavior of others when it appears to offer lessons in intelligent living.

[roger teekell]

Dammit, your thread title had me excited there for a sec - I thought maybe they were getting rid of Pelosi.

:)):)):))...Good one!