ow I did not know there was still Anti-Catholicism in the United States!

[byzantine catholic]

Aside from the KKK and the Neo-Nazis who are ardent Anti-Catholics a recent Gallap Poll back in April 2008 which just interviewed normal people said that 45% said they had a favorable view of Catholicism, 38% was neutral, 15% had a negative view of Catholicism!, and 2% had a very negative view of Catholicism. How sad.

[sgdp]

That is curiously large of a number. I wonder why. :confused:

[byzantine catholic]

That is curiously large of a number. I wonder why. :confused:I do not know. Why?

[sgdp]

I do know a lot of people who were raised in the Catholic church and then converted. But I don't think it was necessarily out of hatred.

[byzantine catholic]

I do know a lot of people who were raised in the Catholic church and then converted. But I don't think it was necessarily out of hatred.No I am not saying that but it us sad how many normal people, 17% it seems has a negative view of Catholicism.

[Fitz]

Not all of those 15% are necessarily anti-Catholicism... I'm sure there's a decent chunk of people who have negative views of all Christianity or religions in general.

[byzantine catholic]

Not all of those 15% are necessarily anti-Catholicism... I'm sure there's a decent chunk of people who have negative views of all Christianity or religions in general.The survey only asked about if you have anything against Catholicism.

[hatman]

The survey only asked about if you have anything against Catholicism.

I'd have to see how the questions were worded, but it would be disappointing if it were true.
I could imagine what was asked was more like "do you agree with all Catholic tenets?" (or some equivalent.

I can disagree with a Catholic tenet without having "anything against" Catholicism or being "anti-Catholic".


I wouldn't be concerned about the 15%.
Maybe the 2% though.

[Gabby]

I'm Catholic. At different times in my life I lived in Atlanta, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Amarillo and Enid, OK.

I've lived in many other cities in the USA, Africa and Panama but those cities are the ones where I learned about anti-Catholicism.

I was in atlanta for part of elementary school. Poeple in our neighborhood did not like Catholics much. It was to the point that they would not allow their children to play with us. A similar think happened in Oklahoma. The most disturbing thing that happened was when a girl from school came home with me to study after school. Her mom called her about 15 minutes after we arrived home from school. Her mother called her, apperently her mom had just heard that we are Catholic. Old witch had her daughter ask me if I was Catholic. When I was she old her daughter to leave our house immediately and wait down the street for her mom to pick her up. The girl told me it was because her mother says that Catholics are devils.

While I thought that the mom was way out of line, I walked my friend to the end of the block and waited for her mom. The witch mother did not even acknowledge my existance. My 'friend' never talked to me again because she was not allowed to. Acutally most of the kids in my class ganged up against me because I am Catholic. This was in the 1966's.

IN Dallas there were many Baptists on the street we lived on. Turned out that they were no very keen on being our friends bause once gain, they thought Catholics are evil. This was in the early 1970s.

IN the early 1990's I lived in Amarillo. There is a very good/old Catholic community in the town. But there is a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment among the non-Catholics. It got to the point that the non-Catholics 'christians' who owned the Christians book stores got together and removed all of their Catholic books and replaced them with some pretty ugly anti-Catholic material. Eventually, at the threat of law suits, they removed the anti-catholic hate literature and returned the Catholic literature and items to the store. The anti-catholic crowd were pretty nasty over it.

I'm surprised to hear that it's only as low as 17% on that survey.

[byzantine catholic]

I'd have to see how the questions were worded, but it would be disappointing if it were true.
I could imagine what was asked was more like "do you agree with all Catholic tenets?" (or some equivalent.

I can disagree with a Catholic tenet without having "anything against" Catholicism or being "anti-Catholic".


I wouldn't be concerned about the 15%.
Maybe the 2% though.Well look you know how i do not want to talk about the evils of this country yadda, yadda since this is the greatest country ever but there has been Anti-Catholicism since the nation's founding.

[Gabby]

I'd have to see how the questions were worded, but it would be disappointing if it were true.
I could imagine what was asked was more like "do you agree with all Catholic tenets?" (or some equivalent.

I can disagree with a Catholic tenet without having "anything against" Catholicism or being "anti-Catholic".


I wouldn't be concerned about the 15%.
Maybe the 2% though.

All you need to do is to go to the religion form of this web site... it's a lot more than not agreeing with the tenants. Every read any of Chic's hateful garbage?

[Broseph]

I'm Catholic and I attend service every weekend.

Let me give you the two reasons why I believe there is 17%, according to this poll, negative view of Catholics.

1) Church rules regarding women and the priesthood. Say what you want, call it tradition, but not allowing a person to become a priest strictly because of sex is seen by many as discrimination. Personally, I believe they should be allowed to be priests and that priests should be allowed to marry.

2) The church is anti-gay marriage. Again, they call it values, but many see it as discrimination. Allowing one person to have x because of their gender preference but not another person.

I doubt that many people have a negative view of Catholics just because. It has more to do with what the church's ideas and policies are rather than what denomination you label yourself.

[byzantine catholic]

I'm Catholic. At different times in my life I lived in Atlanta, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Amarillo and Enid, OK.

I've lived in many other cities in the USA, Africa and Panama but those cities are the ones where I learned about anti-Catholicism.

I was in atlanta for part of elementary school. Poeple in our neighborhood did not like Catholics much. It was to the point that they would not allow their children to play with us. A similar think happened in Oklahoma. The most disturbing thing that happened was when a girl from school came home with me to study after school. Her mom called her about 15 minutes after we arrived home from school. Her mother called her, apperently her mom had just heard that we are Catholic. Old bitch had her daughter ask me if I was Catholic. When I was she old her daughter to leave our house immediately and wait down the street for her mom to pick her up. The girl told me it was because her mother says that Catholics are devils.

While I thought that the mom was way out of line, I walked my friend to the end of the block and waited for her mom. The bitch mother did not even acknowledge my existance. My 'friend' never talked to me again because she was not allowed to. Acutally most of the kids in my class ganged up against me because I am Catholic. This was in the 1966's.

IN Dallas there were many Baptists on the street we lived on. Turned out that they were no very keen on being our friends bause once gain, they thought Catholics are evil. This was in the early 1970s.

IN the early 1990's I lived in Amarillo. There is a very good/old Catholic community in the town. But there is a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment among the non-Catholics. It got to the point that the non-Catholics 'christians' who owned the Christians book stores got together and removed all of their Catholic books and replaced them with some pretty ugly anti-Catholic material. Eventually, at the threat of law suits, they removed the anti-catholic hate literature and returned the Catholic literature and items to the store. The anti-catholic crowd were pretty nasty over it.

I'm surprised to hear that it's only as low as 17% on that survey.Sad story though I would edit out the bad word. Yeah well it goes back to the Whore of Babylon as the Pope, the Vatican putting Catholics in the U.S. to destroy the Protestant population, etc. But there is plenty of good in this nation too and we must remember that as Catholics we can succeed just as well as any Christian here.

[byzantine catholic]

I'm Catholic and I attend service every weekend.

Let me give you the two reasons why I believe there is 17%, according to this poll, negative view of Catholics.

1) Church rules regarding women and the priesthood. Say what you want, call it tradition, but not allowing a person to become a priest strictly because of sex is seen by many as discrimination. Personally, I believe they should be allowed to be priests and that priests should be allowed to marry.

2) The church is anti-gay marriage. Again, they call it values, but many see it as discrimination. Allowing one person to have x because of their gender preference but not another person.

I doubt that many people have a negative view of Catholics just because. It has more to do with what the church's ideas and policies are rather than what denomination you label yourself.Sorry man but that is why I am a member of the Constitution Party and not the Libertarian Party. We must stand up for our Judeo-Christian values.:pray:

[sgdp]

Meeting a friend's large Polish family for the first time. 97-year-old Uncle Bernie didn't bother to say, "Well, hello! Nice to meet you. How are you?"

It was a scathing look and..."Are you.....Catholic?"

One of the most uncomfortable, off-putting situations. I can see how if something like that happened to someone else, they'd view all Catholics negatively.

And I know that kind of thing happens a lot around here.

[Gabby]

I'm Catholic and I attend service every weekend.

Let me give you the two reasons why I believe there is 17%, according to this poll, negative view of Catholics.

1) Church rules regarding women and the priesthood. Say what you want, call it tradition, but not allowing a person to become a priest strictly because of sex is seen by many as discrimination. Personally, I believe they should be allowed to be priests and that priests should be allowed to marry.

2) The church is anti-gay marriage. Again, they call it values, but many see it as discrimination. Allowing one person to have x because of their gender preference but not another person.

I doubt that many people have a negative view of Catholics just because. It has more to do with what the church's ideas and policies are rather than what denomination you label yourself.
Strong Anti-Catholicsm has existed and was even law in the USA long before the idea of women priests and gay marriage every crossed people’s minds.

In some states… New York and Georgia for two, it was illegal and punishable by death to be a Catholic. And those were not the only colonies and later states, there has strong anti-Catholic leanings.

[byzantine catholic]

Strong Anti-Catholicsm has existed and was even law in the USA long before the idea of women priests and gay marriage every crossed people’s minds.

In some states… New York and Georgia for two, it was illegal and punishable by death to be a Catholic. And those were not the only colonies and later states, there has strong anti-Catholic leanings.Yeah and they did the English holiday Burn the Pope Effigy as well because well read my comments below.

[Gabby]

Sad story though I would edit out the bad word. Yeah well it goes back to the Whore of Babylon as the Pope, the Vatican putting Catholics in the U.S. to destroy the Protestant population, etc. But there is plenty of good in this nation too and we must remember that as Catholics we can succeed just as well as any Christian here.

Opps.. I thought that the bad world would be all ****'s... I changed it.


Yep the Protestants were pretty paranoid.. it was pretty stupid to put it mildly. They forget that there were 900 Catholic missions already in what is now the USA before the pilgrams even landed.

Yes Catholics can succeed here as well any anyone else.

I recall when Kennedy ran, people were sure that he could not be elected because of his religion. He made it though.

Leading up the 2004 election, there were acutaully a few posters in the religion forum here saying that they would not vote for a Catholic. It was pretty weird to see posters who are regular members of these forum talking like that.

[byzantine catholic]

Opps.. I thought that the bad world would be all ****'s... I changed it.


Yep the Protestants were pretty paranoid.. it was pretty stupid to put it mildly. They forget that there were 900 Catholic missions already in what is now the USA before the pilgrams even landed.

Yes Catholics can succeed here as well any anyone else.

I recall when Kennedy ran, people were sure that he could not be elected because of his religion. He made it though.

Leading up the 2004 election, there were acutaully a few posters in the religion forum here saying that they would not vote for a Catholic. It was pretty weird to see posters who are regular members of these forum talking like that.Well Gabby like I said it was pretty sad though Kerry was for abortion and gay unions but I just graduated from high school but there were a lot of kids who made fun of my religion even then.

[Gabby]

Well Gabby like I said it was pretty sad though Kerry was for abortion and gay unions but I just graduated from high school but there were a lot of kids who made fun of my religion even then.

Yea, there seem to be a lot of Catholics these days like Kerry, Palosi, and company.

While I bring up the anti-Catholicism here on the forum, in life I tend to let it be an opportunity to educate.

[byzantine catholic]

Yea, there seem to be a lot of Catholics these days like Kerry, Palosi, and company.

While I bring up the anti-Catholicism here on the forum, in life I tend to let it be an opportunity to educate.Well I was a pretty popular guy in high school so it was just like, "How do you sit through a service worshipping a statue (talking about the Monstrance and the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament), why do you believe a man like a priest can absolve your sins, and I would not trust the priests with the sex abuse scandal."

[byzantine catholic]

Yea, there seem to be a lot of Catholics these days like Kerry, Palosi, and company.

While I bring up the anti-Catholicism here on the forum, in life I tend to let it be an opportunity to educate.You mean a lot of Catholics that do not believe in what the Church teaches.

[sgdp]

Ahh. That's a good point Byzantine.

At work a few weeks ago, a co-worker started ranting about the Catholic church abusing children.

I bet that's a big reason.

[Dual867PowerMac]

I think a strong case can be made in the execution of Mary Surratt for her role in the conspiracy to kill President Lincoln — which really wasn't much of a role. She was Catholic, as was Dr. Samuel Mudd, who gave medical aide to John Wilkes Booth.

[byzantine catholic]

Ahh. That's a good point Byzantine.

At work a few weeks ago, a co-worker started ranting about the Catholic church abusing children.

I bet that's a big reason.Yeah an unfortunate scandal in the Church especially since some bishops protected those evil monsters who did that to kids!:snooty:

[byzantine catholic]

I think a strong case can be made in the execution of Mary Surratt for her role in the conspiracy to kill President Lincoln — which really wasn't much of a role. She was Catholic, as was Dr. Samuel Mudd, who gave medical aide to John Wilkes Booth.I think it was more of Nativism of Protestant Americans seeing European immigrants who were Roman Catholic coming into the U.S.

[historynut]

I converted to Catholicsm. I did not realize how bad Anti-Catholicsm was till after I convented.

Like in the public high school my kids went to, you could go out for any team you wanted to, you could even get on the team but you would never play in any of the games.

I think I notice things more because of the very different treatment I got before and after. A lot of Catholics I know don't seem to notice till I point it to them then they say "It happens all the time".

[byzantine catholic]

I converted to Catholicsm. I did not realize how bad Anti-Catholicsm was till after I convented.

Like in the public high school my kids went to, you could go out for any team you wanted to, you could even get on the team but you would never play in any of the games.

I think I notice things more because of the very different treatment I got before and after. A lot of Catholics I know don't seem to notice till I point it to them then they say "It happens all the time".Convert as well and yes you notice the difference. Since you are the history buff around here why is there Anti-Catholicism in the United States?

[Dual867PowerMac]

Convert as well and yes you notice the difference.
I'm a convert. I don't go advertising my faith, but when I've been in restaurants and I say grace, I can honestly say I've never noticed any bad responses.

[byzantine catholic]

I'm a convert. I don't go advertising my faith, but when I've been in restaurants and I say grace, I can honestly say I've never noticed any bad responses.Yeah well come down to the strict Baptist South Carolina!:))Which I have nothing against Baptists since my family is Baptist. I am the only Catholic.

[Gabby]

Ahh. That's a good point Byzantine.

At work a few weeks ago, a co-worker started ranting about the Catholic church abusing children.

I bet that's a big reason.

Have you done any research into the instances of child abuse in other Christian secs, in Muslim mosques and schools, in the public school system, etc?

As it turns out there is no difference between the level of abuse in the Catholic Church and in any other denomination, religion or secular situation. Furher, the instances of higher up covering up for the abuses is as likely in any non-Catholic institution.

The main difference is that media seems to have a field day when something comes out about the Catholic church.. after all they have a hierarchy that poeple can actaully find. Who are they going to point to and blame when non-Catholic Christians, Jews, Muslims and secular clergy/leaders engage in child and teen molestation? It's not as much fun as beating up on Catholic priests, bishops and the Pope.

Non-Catholics need to be looking at their own institutions and clean them up too.

A good example is that the JW's have some thing like 4200 cases that their leaders refuse to even look into . Instead they just kick those who bring out the abuse out of their congregation. That number is from about 4 years ago. I'm sure it's higher now.

Some 96% or more of all priests have never abused a child or anyone else. That is also a very important statistic.

[historynut]

Yeah an unfortunate scandal in the Church especially since some bishops protected those evil monsters who did that to kids!:snooty:

Sounds like the church I grew up in and quit when I was a teenager. While I was not abused I was a witness. Still can't forget.

The church I'm in now has problems but it's better then the one I came from.

[byzantine catholic]

Have you done any research into the instances of child abuse in other Christian secs, in Muslim mosques and schools, in the public school system, etc?

As it turns out there is no difference between the level of abuse in the Catholic Church and in any other denomination, religion or secular situation. Furher, the instances of higher up covering up for the abuses is as likely in any non-Catholic institution.

The main difference is that media seems to have a field day when something comes out about the Catholic church.. after all they have a hierarchy that poeple can actaully find. Who are they going to point to and blame when non-Catholic Christians, Jews, Muslims and secular clergy/leaders engage in child and teen molestation? It's not as much fun as beating up on Catholic priests, bishops and the Pope.

Non-Catholics need to be looking at their own institutions and clean them up too.

A good example is that the JW's have some thing like 4200 cases that their leaders refuse to even look into . Instead they just kick those who bring out the abuse out of their congregation. That number is from about 4 years ago. I'm sure it's higher now.

Some 96% or more of all priests have never abused a child or anyone else. That is also a very important statistic.True since there was a case about an Episcopal deacon who molested his own daughter!:snooty:Sick!

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I'm Catholic. At different times in my life I lived in Atlanta, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Amarillo and Enid, OK.

I've lived in many other cities in the USA, Africa and Panama but those cities are the ones where I learned about anti-Catholicism.

I was in atlanta for part of elementary school. Poeple in our neighborhood did not like Catholics much. It was to the point that they would not allow their children to play with us. A similar think happened in Oklahoma. The most disturbing thing that happened was when a girl from school came home with me to study after school. Her mom called her about 15 minutes after we arrived home from school. Her mother called her, apperently her mom had just heard that we are Catholic. Old witch had her daughter ask me if I was Catholic. When I was she old her daughter to leave our house immediately and wait down the street for her mom to pick her up. The girl told me it was because her mother says that Catholics are devils.

While I thought that the mom was way out of line, I walked my friend to the end of the block and waited for her mom. The witch mother did not even acknowledge my existance. My 'friend' never talked to me again because she was not allowed to. Acutally most of the kids in my class ganged up against me because I am Catholic. This was in the 1966's.

IN Dallas there were many Baptists on the street we lived on. Turned out that they were no very keen on being our friends bause once gain, they thought Catholics are evil. This was in the early 1970s.

IN the early 1990's I lived in Amarillo. There is a very good/old Catholic community in the town. But there is a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment among the non-Catholics. It got to the point that the non-Catholics 'christians' who owned the Christians book stores got together and removed all of their Catholic books and replaced them with some pretty ugly anti-Catholic material. Eventually, at the threat of law suits, they removed the anti-catholic hate literature and returned the Catholic literature and items to the store. The anti-catholic crowd were pretty nasty over it.

I'm surprised to hear that it's only as low as 17% on that survey.

I know from personal experience that some fundamentalist protestant churches feel that way... that Catholics are not really Christian, they are 'evil', going straight to hell, etc.

[Gabby]

I think a strong case can be made in the execution of Mary Surratt for her role in the conspiracy to kill President Lincoln — which really wasn't much of a role. She was Catholic, as was Dr. Samuel Mudd, who gave medical aide to John Wilkes Booth.

That does not explain the centuries of anti-Catholicism to include laws such a death penalties that existed in the colonies and later in the USA before Lincoln was killed. I'll bet that most people today do not even know that some of those involved were Catholic. By the way, if some were catholic, that means that some were not Catholic. Did the assassination of Lincoln lead to anti-whatever-religion the non-Catholics were?

Nope, don't think so.. the anit-Catholicism already existed.

[historynut]

Convert as well and yes you notice the difference. Since you are the history buff around here why is there Anti-Catholicism in the United States?

A lot of the reason is England was very anti-Catholic and most the the people that settled here were from England.

[byzantine catholic]

I know from personal experience that some fundamentalist protestant churches feel that way... that Catholics are not really Christian, they are 'evil', going straight to hell, etc.Just go on Youtube and see how many Anti-Catholic videos there are which is absurd since we are the largest denomination in Christinaity. Wow Goldstein the liberal leftist we actually agree with eachother!:))

[Gabby]

I know from personal experience that some fundamentalist protestant churches feel that way... that Catholics are not really Christian, they are 'evil', going straight to hell, etc.
Yea I run into that all the time. I've even had members of these forums tell me that I need to convert out of Catholism for that reason. That really upset me.

[sgdp]

Have you done any research into the instances of child abuse in other Christian secs, in Muslim mosques and schools, in the public school system, etc?

As it turns out there is no difference between the level of abuse in the Catholic Church and in any other denomination, religion or secular situation. Furher, the instances of higher up covering up for the abuses is as likely in any non-Catholic institution.

The main difference is that media seems to have a field day when something comes out about the Catholic church.. after all they have a hierarchy that poeple can actaully find. Who are they going to point to and blame when non-Catholic Christians, Jews, Muslims and secular clergy/leaders engage in child and teen molestation? It's not as much fun as beating up on Catholic priests, bishops and the Pope.

Non-Catholics need to be looking at their own institutions and clean them up too.

A good example is that the JW's have some thing like 4200 cases that their leaders refuse to even look into . Instead they just kick those who bring out the abuse out of their congregation. That number is from about 4 years ago. I'm sure it's higher now.

Some 96% or more of all priests have never abused a child or anyone else. That is also a very important statistic.

I'm just responding to why people may view the church negatively. I don't.

For the record, I want to put that co-worker in a stranglehold sometimes. Most obnoxious person I've ever known.

But why do we think it is that Catholics get the bad rap in the media?

[Gabby]

Sounds like the church I grew up in and quit when I was a teenager. While I was not abused I was a witness. Still can't forget.

The church I'm in now has problems but it's better then the one I came from.
My husband is a Byzantine Catholic. One of his sisters had a protestant preacher's daughter for a best freind. As it turns out, the preacher and his wife molested the girl and my sister-in-law for years.... with threats of killing them if they told anyone.

No group is immune from having a few sicko's in the group who exploit the trust and access they gain from that trust.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Yeah well come down to the strict Baptist South Carolina!:))Which I have nothing against Baptists since my family is Baptist. I am the only Catholic.
Same here. Except my dad's side of the family is mostly from Kentucky and my mom's side of the family is mostly from Ohio.

I raised a minor stink back in 1984 when I openly supported Ronald Reagan in a family where Democrat is the official religion and FDR is revered as the fourth person of the Blessed Trinity.

I shoulda kept my trap shut. :doh:

I was baptized Baptist. I went a couple of years and never practiced after the church shut down until a couple of years ago when I made the decision to convert to Catholicism.

History proved to me that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16:18.

That's why.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Yea I run into that all the time. I've even had members of these forums tell me that I need to convert out of Catholism for that reason. That really upset me.

Which is why when I hear people rant about wanting school-led prayer put back (or any form of religion infused into government), I just laugh. Hell, Christians of different denominations can't agree with each other, how in the world are they going to manage that?

[byzantine catholic]

My husband is a Byzantine Catholic. One of his sisters had a protestant preacher's daughter for a best freind. As it turns out, the preacher and his wife molested the girl and my sister-in-law for years.... with threats of killing them if they told anyone.

No group is immune from having a few sicko's in the group who exploit the trust and access they gain from that trust.Hey that is my username!:))That IS TRUELY EVIL AND SICK!:snooty:I pray that God will comfort them from all the wrongs done to them!:pray:

[Gabby]

I'm just responding to why people may view the church negatively. I don't.
Yes I understand that…. Was responding more for the benefit of those many who read here and never post… they outnumber we who post by many times. They could read what you wrote and say ‘yea that’s right’. So I wanted to give some info as to the fact that Catholic priests are no more likely to moistest than anyone else, and catholic hierarchy is not more likely to protect than anyone else.

That said, as a Catholic, like most Catholics are on the case of our clergy to stop this horrible nonsense and holding them to a higher standard than the average… as we should.
For the record, I want to put that co-worker in a stranglehold sometimes. Most obnoxious person I've ever known.
Sounds like he needs and education… the info is out there.
But why do we think it is that Catholics get the bad rap in the media?
I think that Catholics get a bad rap because USA has always been predominately anti-Catholic. It’s built into the protestant foundations of this country. Don’t forget the very foundation of Protestantism is that Catholicism is evil. Most non-Catholics have been taught distorted things about the CC making it an easy target. Further it’s size makes it a very easy target.

There are over 20,000 protestant sects. If you want to pick on protestants who are you going to pick on? If you want to pick on Catholics or Christianity as a whole, there’s someone easy to find.. the Pope and the Vatican.

I had a friend years ago who was a 6’8” very well built, gorgeous man. He dated a friend of mine. Every time we went out dancing or to a bar some guy smaller than he would pick a fight and start hitting him. Now granted every guy in the place was smaller than he, but there was always at least one who wanted to beat up the big guy. This is how I see what goes on with the Catholic church and the press’ constant Catholic bashing.

[historynut]

Have you done any research into the instances of child abuse in other Christian secs, in Muslim mosques and schools, in the public school system, etc?

As it turns out there is no difference between the level of abuse in the Catholic Church and in any other denomination, religion or secular situation. Furher, the instances of higher up covering up for the abuses is as likely in any non-Catholic institution.

The main difference is that media seems to have a field day when something comes out about the Catholic church.. after all they have a hierarchy that poeple can actaully find. Who are they going to point to and blame when non-Catholic Christians, Jews, Muslims and secular clergy/leaders engage in child and teen molestation? It's not as much fun as beating up on Catholic priests, bishops and the Pope.

Non-Catholics need to be looking at their own institutions and clean them up too.

A good example is that the JW's have some thing like 4200 cases that their leaders refuse to even look into . Instead they just kick those who bring out the abuse out of their congregation. That number is from about 4 years ago. I'm sure it's higher now.

Some 96% or more of all priests have never abused a child or anyone else. That is also a very important statistic.

The media is very good at looking the other way when it's a church they like. It ends up with the public not hearing anything while the abused get a little money and are not allowed to talk to anyone. Sometimes the money lets them get treatment so they can live with themselfs. Sometimes the the treatment doesn't help.

[Gabby]

Which is why when I hear people rant about wanting school-led prayer put back (or any form of religion infused into government), I just laugh. Hell, Christians of different denominations can't agree with each other, how in the world are they going to manage that?

I'm ok with a basic prayer at school. In the 50's and 60's we'd say the pledge and a prayer every morning. There was nothing denominational about it. Just a few minutes of relection.

But there is no way I would agree to anything more than that. I certainly would not agree to religious classes in a public school. That the is for parents and the church to take care of.

[sgdp]

Yes I understand that…. Was responding more for the benefit of those many who read here and never post… they outnumber we who post by many times. They could read what you wrote and say ‘yea that’s right’. So I wanted to give some info as to the fact that Catholic priests are no more likely to moistest than anyone else, and catholic hierarchy is not more likely to protect than anyone else.

That said, as a Catholic, like most Catholics are on the case of our clergy to stop this horrible nonsense and holding them to a higher standard than the average… as we should.
Gotcha. Just making sure. :)


Sounds like he needs and education… the info is out there.

I never bring my personal/political life to work. It's a really bad venue. But, it's absolutely frustrating working with someone who has no sense of manners. When you work in a public forum, try not to pull your co-workers into, "Hey, don't you think Hillary is doing a great job? Isn't about time we had national healthcare?"

Et cetera.

I always deflect with humor.



I think that Catholics get a bad rap because USA has always been predominately anti-Catholic. It’s built into the protestant foundations of this country. Don’t forget the very foundation of Protestantism is that Catholicism is evil. Most non-Catholics have been taught distorted things about the CC making it an easy target. Further it’s size makes it a very easy target.

There are over 20,000 protestant sects. If you want to pick on protestants who are you going to pick on? If you want to pick on Catholics or Christianity as a whole, there’s someone easy to find.. the Pope and the Vatican.

I had a friend years ago who was a 6’8” very well built, gorgeous man. He dated a friend of mine. Every time we went out dancing or to a bar some guy smaller than he would pick a fight and start hitting him. Now granted every guy in the place was smaller than he, but there was always at least one who wanted to beat up the big guy. This is how I see what goes on with the Catholic church and the press’ constant Catholic bashing.

That's definitely true. It's just a shame we haven't gotten past it.

[Gabby]

The media is very good at looking the other way when it's a church they like. It ends up with the public not hearing anything while the abused get a little money and are not allowed to talk to anyone. Sometimes the money lets them get treatment so they can live with themselfs. Sometimes the the treatment doesn't help.

What always gets me in these cases is that the abused or their parents seem to go to the church leaders with it instead of the police.

If a clergy member were to abuse my child.. my first call is to the police and not the church leaders. Once the police are involved than i'll talk to the church leaders.

We had an incident here in town in which a Priest was prostituting out boys. It was a church that had a school attached to it. The situation was handled the right way. The parents and church leaders went to the police. The Church let the police have total access to the Priest's house. They held a sting, got him and the evidence. He's in prison now and no longer a priest.

That's how it's done.

I understand how things were different in say the 1950's. But any parent to day to just goes to church leaders and takes a payoff is , in my mind, further abusing their child to get money. And this leaves other children a risk.

[byzantine catholic]

What always gets me in these cases is that the abused or their parents seem to go to the church leaders with it instead of the police.

If a clergy member were to abuse my child.. my first call is to the police and not the church leaders. Once the police are involved than i'll talk to the church leaders.

We had an incident here in town in which a Priest was prostituting out boys. It was a church that had a school attached to it. The situation was handled the right way. The parents and church leaders went to the police. The Church let the police have total access to the Priest's house. They held a sting, got him and the evidence. He's in prison now and no longer a priest.

That's how it's done.

I understand how things were different in say the 1950's. But any parent to day to just goes to church leaders and takes a payoff is , in my mind, further abusing their child to get money. And this leaves other children a risk.Amen but actually that happened during the '60s and '70s. That is why the death penalty is good for those evil monsters.

[Gabby]

Hey that is my username!:))That IS TRUELY EVIL AND SICK!:snooty:I pray that God will comfort them from all the wrongs done to them!:pray:

What can I say? It's a good name.... :whistle::whistle:

[Rorus Raz]

If it makes you feel better, I still like Catholicism better than Mormonism and Scientology. It's the hats.

[khigh]

I'm ok with a basic prayer at school. In the 50's and 60's we'd say the pledge and a prayer every morning. There was nothing denominational about it. Just a few minutes of relection.

But there is no way I would agree to anything more than that. I certainly would not agree to religious classes in a public school. That the is for parents and the church to take care of.

Alright, so is it going to be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or pagan prayer? A Buddhist chant? Sorry, but I would just rather keep prayer out of public schools. Too complicated. If you want your kid to pray at school- send them to a private school.

It may not have been denominational, but I bet it was still Christian prayer. No thank you! I would pull my daughter out of school faster than she could finish that prayer. Nothing against Christianity, but I want to raise my daughter in a good Hindu home, not have another religion forced on her.

[sgdp]

Now they call it a "moment of silence."

You can think about how hungry you are, who stole your pen, how you're going to explain that you didn't finish your homework...

Or..Ya know.

You could pray.

Whatever.

[Dual867PowerMac]

If it makes you feel better, I still like Catholicism better than Mormonism and Scientology. It's the hats.
I don't know how anyone can put credence in their teachings. Especially Scientology.

A few years ago, I went in to the local "church" in downtown Cincinnati and all I wanted was a paperback copy of Dianetics. I'd heard about it for years and never read it.

The local whatever he was tried to sell me the basic Scientology course, which costs around $3,000.

:eek:

I said "no thank you," and likewise to the auditing and the E-Meter stuff.

[sgdp]

I don't know how anyone can put credence in their teachings. Especially Scientology.

A few years ago, I went in to the local "church" in downtown Cincinnati and all I wanted was a paperback copy of Dianetics. I'd heard about it for years and never read it.

The local whatever he was tried to sell me the basic Scientology course, which costs around $3,000.

:eek:

I said "no thank you," and likewise to the auditing and the E-Meter stuff.

Just because of the money? Consider it tithing, I suppose. As an atheist, they all kind of fall into the same category to me. Nothing crazier about scientology than there is about any other religion, IMHO.

No offense meant. At all. For serious. :mrgreen:

[Fitz]

Just because of the money? Consider it tithing, I suppose. As an atheist, they all kind of fall into the same category to me. Nothing crazier about scientology than there is about any other religion, IMHO.

No offense meant. At all. For serious. :mrgreen:

I was thinking something along the same lines, but couldn't think of a delicate enough way to put it... Had Scientology been thought up a few thousand years ago who's to say it wouldn't be one of the primary religions today?

[sgdp]

I was thinking something along the same lines, but couldn't think of a delicate enough way to put it... Had Scientology been thought up a few thousand years ago who's to say it wouldn't be one of the primary religions today?

Yeah, I struggled with it, too. I tried. :cool:

[King Cantona]

Well I'm Roman Catholic (Irish parents) and have never noticed any specific Anti Catholicism here other than people who are against organised religion as a whole ...

They see 'religion' as the cause of ALL the world's ills and while it's not strictly true I can empathise...

[GA_LP]

Just because of the money? Consider it tithing, I suppose. As an atheist, they all kind of fall into the same category to me. Nothing crazier about scientology than there is about any other religion, IMHO.

No offense meant. At all. For serious. :mrgreen:Funny, no Christian church I've ever attended charged me an admittance fee or ever denied me the teachings of the church for not paying a fee. Sorry, Scientology is a sucker's fleecing game.

[BillyBobUSA]

Yea I run into that all the time. I've even had members of these forums tell me that I need to convert out of Catholism for that reason. That really upset me.


It shouldnt upset you as it is simply a theological belief that these people have been taught by their clergy about a category of people.

The individual members likely do not understand the theology, nor want to if they could. They are simply members at a church that they feelcomfortable with when they worship God the best way they can and socialise with each other.

The Protestant church I grew up in teaches that people like me who have left it are going straight to hell, do not pass Go and do not collect $200.

It doesnt bother me one whit because I know it is not personal and I also know that they are wrong.

[Buffalo]

2 cents here. The pedo scandal probably upped that number. There has also been a tradition of exclusion in some parishes (although this is not limited to the Catholic Church nor is it a generalization of all parishes) . Personally, my ex girlfriend's story comes to mind. Her father met her mother in Korea and were married. He brought her and his new mixed race children back to Buffalo after his service in the military, and when he brought them to his Church, the clergy actually asked him to not come back. Now, like I said, this is not to imply that the RC Church is racist or bigotted, just that many converts away from RC have reasons like this, therefor they would not be fans of the Church. Lastly, our society is drifting away from organized religion, and the stigma of the RC Church may play stronger for those who have strayed. Just my opinion.

[Gabby]

Alright, so is it going to be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or pagan prayer? A Buddhist chant? Sorry, but I would just rather keep prayer out of public schools. Too complicated. If you want your kid to pray at school- send them to a private school.

It may not have been denominational, but I bet it was still Christian prayer. No thank you! I would pull my daughter out of school faster than she could finish that prayer. Nothing against Christianity, but I want to raise my daughter in a good Hindu home, not have another religion forced on her.

I'll bet that if you put some effort into it you could come up with a prayer that would be acceptable to any religion, or be just reflection for the non-religious.

I would not be offended if my children prayed a Hindu prayer with any hindu classmates they might have.

[Gabby]

It shouldnt upset you as it is simply a theological belief that these people have been taught by their clergy about a category of people.

The individual members likely do not understand the theology, nor want to if they could. They are simply members at a church that they feelcomfortable with when they worship God the best way they can and socialise with each other.

The Protestant church I grew up in teaches that people like me who have left it are going straight to hell, do not pass Go and do not collect $200.

It doesnt bother me one whit because I know it is not personal and I also know that they are wrong.
I am amused by those who think they know who will and will not go to 'hell'. It's not their choice but I guess making such judgements make them feel better about themselves.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[notluzn]

I would say it has to do with their Liking Illegals.

[Gabby]

2 cents here. The pedo scandal probably upped that number. There has also been a tradition of exclusion in some parishes (although this is not limited to the Catholic Church nor is it a generalization of all parishes) . Personally, my ex girlfriend's story comes to mind. Her father met her mother in Korea and were married. He brought her and his new mixed race children back to Buffalo after his service in the military, and when he brought them to his Church, the clergy actually asked him to not come back. Now, like I said, this is not to imply that the RC Church is racist or bigotted, just that many converts away from RC have reasons like this, therefor they would not be fans of the Church. Lastly, our society is drifting away from organized religion, and the stigma of the RC Church may play stronger for those who have strayed. Just my opinion.
There are more non-white Catholics than there are white Catholics. The prejudice in the church you talk about has more to do with the people in that church than about the Catholic Church. Of course such stories will not stop those who are already prejudice against the Catholic Church to use the actions on one priest or one small group of people to judge th 1.4 billion Catholics world wide.


I wonder if your ex-girlfriend's father went to those above that particular priest to deal with this?

[Buffalo]

There are more non-white Catholics than there are white Catholics. The prejudice in the church you talk about has more to do with the people in that church than about the Catholic Church. Of course such stories will not stop those who are already prejudice against the Catholic Church to use the actions on one priest or one small group of people to judge th 1.4 billion Catholics world wide.


I wonder if your ex-girlfriend's father went to those above that particular priest to deal with this?
Like I said, I didn't mean it to be indictment of the whole RC Church, just that one. And I've heard other stories concerning single Churches. I don't think that it is the sole, or even biggest reason there is anti Catholic feeling still around.

As far as I know, they just changed denominations.

[Greyclouds]

To the OP: It depends on how the questions were asked.

It appears that there are TWO degrees of negativity here: "negative view of the Church" and "VERY negative view of the Church."


Having been a former Catholic myself, I could be convinced to agree with a question that asked me if I disagree with the tenets of the Catholic Church (a "negative" view, persay). I still respect the Catholic faith, and I do not receive the Eucharist from the select services that my family has dragged me to, but I disagree with the Church dogma on several fundamental levels.

I think that if people disagreed with Catholic teachings, but did not actively HATE Catholicism, they'd be inclined to pick the "lesser" negative option.

Having said that, Catholicism HAS had a history of ostracism in this nation; it has gotten far better in more recent times, though.

[slick_trip]

Aside from the KKK and the Neo-Nazis who are ardent Anti-Catholics a recent Gallap Poll back in April 2008 which just interviewed normal people said that 45% said they had a favorable view of Catholicism, 38% was neutral, 15% had a negative view of Catholicism!, and 2% had a very negative view of Catholicism. How sad.


i have a negative view of catholicism - which isn't specific to catholics. i don't feel the church responded properly regarding cardinal law and as long as he holds any position within the church, i will hold the church in contempt.

[brouski]

I would say it has to do with their Liking Illegals.

Treating them like human beings, you mean?

[notluzn]

When aren't they treated like Human beings? They are also criminals and should be treated as such. Do you let people that broke into your house live there and eat your food and demand you pay they're health care? NOPE! You would scream and call the cops and possible if you had a gun shoot them in the head. Think about it!Treating them like human beings, you mean?

[byzantine catholic]

I would say it has to do with their Liking Illegals.Wrong!:rolleyes:I support keeping illegal immigrants out of the country with a fence and border patrol.

[byzantine catholic]

When aren't they treated like Human beings? They are also criminals and should be treated as such. Do you let people that broke into your house live there and eat your food and demand you pay they're health care? NOPE! You would scream and call the cops and possible if you had a gun shoot them in the head. Think about it!Because liberals want more vots for them.

[Mimiheart]

Now they call it a "moment of silence."

You can think about how hungry you are, who stole your pen, how you're going to explain that you didn't finish your homework...

Or..Ya know.

You could pray.

Whatever.
Or by the time you pass 2nd grade, you spend it ignoring the "silence" part and chatting with the person next to you. I know we HAD a "moment of silence" in Jr. and High School, but I don't know of anyone who was actually silent during it unless they were finishing up a homework assignment.

[Socrates]

I'm Catholic and I attend service every weekend.

Let me give you the two reasons why I believe there is 17%, according to this poll, negative view of Catholics.

1) Church rules regarding women and the priesthood. Say what you want, call it tradition, but not allowing a person to become a priest strictly because of sex is seen by many as discrimination. Personally, I believe they should be allowed to be priests and that priests should be allowed to marry.

2) The church is anti-gay marriage. Again, they call it values, but many see it as discrimination. Allowing one person to have x because of their gender preference but not another person.

I doubt that many people have a negative view of Catholics just because. It has more to do with what the church's ideas and policies are rather than what denomination you label yourself.
That may account for one side of it. But there are many conservative Christians who have been taught to hate the Catholic Church for all sorts reasons. Quite a few of them have been posters on this forum. I recall the religion forum erupting with a bunch of anti-Catholic posters with piles of anti-Catholic cliches right after Pope John Paul II died.

[notluzn]

Wrong!:rolleyes:I support keeping illegal immigrants out of the country with a fence and border patrol. An Individual doesn't always believe the beliefs or policy which they belong too.

[notluzn]

That may account for one side of it. But there are many conservative Christians who have been taught to hate the Catholic Church for all sorts reasons. Quite a few of them have been posters on this forum. I recall the religion forum erupting with a bunch of anti-Catholic posters with piles of anti-Catholic cliches right after Pope John Paul II died.

I think the Catholic Church is beautiful. I just wish they didn't go against the Law of the Land.

[sgdp]

Funny, no Christian church I've ever attended charged me an admittance fee or ever denied me the teachings of the church for not paying a fee. Sorry, Scientology is a sucker's fleecing game.

Funny you might say that.

"A sucker's fleecing game" summarizes many peoples' attitudes toward religion of any variety.

[Broseph]

Sorry man but that is why I am a member of the Constitution Party and not the Libertarian Party. We must stand up for our Judeo-Christian values.:pray:

Standing up for values is okay. Forcing them on others is despicable.

[Dual867PowerMac]

I think the Catholic Church is beautiful. I just wish they didn't go against the Law of the Land.
How do they do that?

[notluzn]

They do not believe in Borders and Arresting Illegals nor deprting them. I don't blame the members. How do they do that?

[NascarGirl2448]

I know from personal experience that some fundamentalist protestant churches feel that way... that Catholics are not really Christian, they are 'evil', going straight to hell, etc.

Sounds like the belief of the baptist churches I was raised in. Of course I've gotten away from the baptists altogether and am now a methodist. However, some people it seems just have a hard time accepting catholics as Christians, even though the catholic church was the original Christian church.

I think if the anti-catholics would do a little study of world history, they might come to realize that catholics are not "evil" people. I am friends with several catholics, one of my cousins is even catholic, and really, I never cared about our religious differences. Its sad that some people still have such a prejudice towards their fellow human beings simply because of their being a different denomination of Christianity.

[angelicmadrigal]

Well, I was raised Catholic (attended catholic school K-12th grade) and I really have never run into issuses with people discriminating against me or treating me poorly because of how I was raised. In my life I have had a lot of religious discussions with people of different religions and I've never once felt attacked or threatened by them. In my opinion there's a lack of understanding, because the Catholic faith is very different. I find that people that have the most problem (as far as Catholics creating their own problems)are pre-Vatican II Catholics.

Honsetly, I've had more hostility towards me for being a gamer than I ever did growing up being Catholic.

[Apatriot]

Aside from the KKK and the Neo-Nazis who are ardent Anti-Catholics a recent Gallap Poll back in April 2008 which just interviewed normal people said that 45% said they had a favorable view of Catholicism, 38% was neutral, 15% had a negative view of Catholicism!, and 2% had a very negative view of Catholicism. How sad.


As a Catholic, I'm surprised it was that low.

[Apatriot]

Sorry man but that is why I am a member of the Constitution Party and not the Libertarian Party. We must stand up for our Judeo-Christian values.:pray:


The Constitution Party is a foolish one. I don't trust any political party that runs an active minister on their ticket. Chuck Baldwin, their pres. candidate in 2008, is a local (Pensacola) Baptist minister.

[Apatriot]

2 cents here. The pedo scandal probably upped that number. There has also been a tradition of exclusion in some parishes (although this is not limited to the Catholic Church nor is it a generalization of all parishes) . Personally, my ex girlfriend's story comes to mind. Her father met her mother in Korea and were married. He brought her and his new mixed race children back to Buffalo after his service in the military, and when he brought them to his Church, the clergy actually asked him to not come back. Now, like I said, this is not to imply that the RC Church is racist or bigotted, just that many converts away from RC have reasons like this, therefor they would not be fans of the Church. Lastly, our society is drifting away from organized religion, and the stigma of the RC Church may play stronger for those who have strayed. Just my opinion.


The story of the mixed race kids is strange to me. However, I am a Catholic raised in the South, and in the South (for the most part), the Catholic Church is about the most integrated church.

[notluzn]

What strikes me as amazing is one church talking crap about another church and saying they are the true church. Thats what amazes me.

[Buffalo]

The story of the mixed race kids is strange to me. However, I am a Catholic raised in the South, and in the South (for the most part), the Catholic Church is about the most integrated church.
You'd be surprised how much racism exists in my city.

[Gabby]

They do not believe in Borders and Arresting Illegals nor deprting them. I don't blame the members.

Gee, sounds like most democrates, most of those in Congress, Pres. Bush and Pres. Obama.

[Gabby]

i have a negative view of catholicism - which isn't specific to catholics. i don't feel the church responded properly regarding cardinal law and as long as he holds any position within the church, i will hold the church in contempt.

Do you feel the same way about the Jahova Witnesses and the other denominations that have done the same thing?

[Socrates]

They do not believe in Borders and Arresting Illegals nor deprting them. I don't blame the members.
But you have to distinguish between certain American bishops' personal opinions and "The Church." I don't think you'll find an official statement from the Church condemning border enforcement or condoning illegal immigration. You'll probably find lots of personal statements from Cardinal Mahony to that effect though, along with a lot of other problematic opinions.

[Socrates]

Do you feel the same way about the Jahova Witnesses and the other denominations that have done the same thing?

Not to mention the public school systems. (Those cases while far more numerous and common only seem to make the news when the abuser is a pretty young blond.)

[slick_trip]

Do you feel the same way about the Jahova Witnesses and the other denominations that have done the same thing?

certainly. i'm not aware of other examples and would allow that there's a difference between a isolated location - say a certain church or parish - the local actions that are dealt with and the example of cardinal law where the highest points of the organization chose to elevate him.

once i heard that cardinal law had involvement with the selection of the pope, i lost all respect for the religion.

[slick_trip]

Not to mention the public school systems. (Those cases while far more numerous and common only seem to make the news when the abuser is a pretty young blond.)

ok, let me see if we have this analogy straight.

the catholic church had priests that commited atrocities - for the sake of this comparrison a priest and a teacher would be synonymous.

those above the priest took actions to protect the church, not the children - a person as high up as cardinal law was involved in said actions - in my opinion - knowingly exposing innocent children to pedophiles preferring to protect the church first. for the sake of comparrison, cardinal law and a superintendent would be synonymous.

if you have examples where a teacher was kept in the system by a superintendent and shuffled around to hide their actions - and then have that same superintendent promoted once the scandal is exposed...then i'd be likely to condemn public school systems.

because what i see are perpetrators that are cast out of the system and any that aid them equally dealt with.

[Socrates]

ok, let me see if we have this analogy straight.

the catholic church had priests that commited atrocities - for the sake of this comparrison a priest and a teacher would be synonymous.

those above the priest took actions to protect the church, not the children - a person as high up as cardinal law was involved in said actions - in my opinion - knowingly exposing innocent children to pedophiles preferring to protect the church first. for the sake of comparrison, cardinal law and a superintendent would be synonymous.

if you have examples where a teacher was kept in the system by a superintendent and shuffled around to hide their actions - and then have that same superintendent promoted once the scandal is exposed...then i'd be likely to condemn public school systems.

because what i see are perpetrators that are cast out of the system and any that aid them equally dealt with.
How was Cardinal Law promoted?

[slick_trip]

How was Cardinal Law promoted?

promoted was my choice of words - i could be very wrong that the appointment to rome equates to a 'promotion'.

i see his appointment to rome and his involvement with the selection of the newest pope to certainly be an elevated position. whether his position in the church represents a move 'up' means little to me. the man violated key points of what the church supposedly stands for and the result was he got to be part of choosing the pope.

that speaks volumes to me about the church at the highest levels. that man belongs behind bars, not electing popes.

[Socrates]

promoted was my choice of words - i could be very wrong that the appointment to rome equates to a 'promotion'.

i see his appointment to rome and his involvement with the selection of the newest pope to certainly be an elevated position. whether his position in the church represents a move 'up' means little to me. the man violated key points of what the church supposedly stands for and the result was he got to be part of choosing the pope.

that speaks volumes to me about the church at the highest levels. that man belongs behind bars, not electing popes.
If you autonomously ran a large division of a multinational firm and then got placed in a minor staff position with little authority and in a location where the boss could keep a close eye on you, would you consider it a promotion?

His reassignment to Rome had nothing to do with his participation in electing the pope. It bugs the crap out of me every time I see him in his clericals as well, but his participation in the conclave was unlikely anything more than perfunctory.

[slick_trip]

If you autonomously ran a large division of a multinational firm and then got placed in a minor staff position with little authority and in a location where the boss could keep a close eye on you, would you consider it a promotion?

His reassignment to Rome had nothing to do with his participation in electing the pope. It bugs the crap out of me every time I see him in his clericals as well, but his participation in the conclave was unlikely anything more than perfunctory.

if i kept my employment and didn't go to jail - yeah, i'd consider that a promotion.

the fact the chuch kept this man says a lot. if i was in said position and violated the companies by-laws, i'd be fired - not 'tucked away where the boss can keep any eye on me'.

if i was a shareholder in a company that did such a thing - i'd pull all my stock. honestly - every time any catholic contributes they, in some small part, PAY that man's salary. they support him.

the fact he was even present at that conclave is disgusting.

[historynut]

ok, let me see if we have this analogy straight.

the catholic church had priests that commited atrocities - for the sake of this comparrison a priest and a teacher would be synonymous.

those above the priest took actions to protect the church, not the children - a person as high up as cardinal law was involved in said actions - in my opinion - knowingly exposing innocent children to pedophiles preferring to protect the church first. for the sake of comparrison, cardinal law and a superintendent would be synonymous.

if you have examples where a teacher was kept in the system by a superintendent and shuffled around to hide their actions - and then have that same superintendent promoted once the scandal is exposed...then i'd be likely to condemn public school systems.

because what i see are perpetrators that are cast out of the system and any that aid them equally dealt with.

How about being allowed to retire early with a nice recomendation in case he wanted to get a job at a different school.

[slick_trip]

How about being allowed to retire early with a nice recomendation in case he wanted to get a job at a different school.

certainly not trying to deny examples exist. what lacks is a central position such as cardinal law the allowed multiple situations to be perpetuated.

for a church - who's foundation is based on being there for the innocent - to support a man who willfully violated that foundation for the sake of protecting the church's image and his own....

the op asked the question about how negative opinions can still exist. this is my example why.

[historynut]

certainly not trying to deny examples exist. what lacks is a central position such as cardinal law the allowed multiple situations to be perpetuated.

for a church - who's foundation is based on being there for the innocent - to support a man who willfully violated that foundation for the sake of protecting the church's image and his own....

the op asked the question about how negative opinions can still exist. this is my example why.

What about the other churches where the same things happened. For some reason I don't see them on the front page or any other page. To me if you go after one you go after all.

[slick_trip]

What about the other churches where the same things happened. For some reason I don't see them on the front page or any other page. To me if you go after one you go after all.

i think the prevelance within the catholic church was a key difference. the volume of people affected certainly supported national attention. one person, one location - that doesn't talk so much about the overall group, just an isolated incident.

i also haven't seen examples where the church - as a whole - acted as the catholic church did here.

[historynut]

i think the prevelance within the catholic church was a key difference. the volume of people affected certainly supported national attention. one person, one location - that doesn't talk so much about the overall group, just an isolated incident.

i also haven't seen examples where the church - as a whole - acted as the catholic church did here.

When you talk about the prevelance within the catholic church a little seaching on the internet shows the catholic church is not alone.

Yes there are bad people in the catholic church and they should get what is coming to them.

But on one hand you have the catholic church where a guy (with no witness’s) comes out and says father X abused me 30 years ago and it’s on the front page.

With a different group of churches with a number of witness’s, video etc it does not even get in the newspaper.

When you go to the media with evidence and they will not even look at it there is something wrong. While you have different pastors at different church abusing kids on video there is something wrong. Telling people they are mistaken without even looking at the evidence or talking to the witness’s is also wrong.

[Gabby]

i think the prevelance within the catholic church was a key difference. the volume of people affected certainly supported national attention. one person, one location - that doesn't talk so much about the overall group, just an isolated incident.

i also haven't seen examples where the church - as a whole - acted as the catholic church did here.

The prevelance of child abuse within the Catholic Church has been no greater than among other Christian secs, Muslims or Jews.

The volume of abuse is the same if 10 Catholic Priests abuse as it is if 10 Prodestants, 10 Jews or 10 Mulisms abuse. The heirarchy of any of these groups has been as likely to protect their abusing clergy as Catholics.

It does not take much effort searching on line to find cases on line of not only clergy of other denominations who molest children but to find cases of the church heirarchy involved in cover ups. Here are a few I fond a only a few minutes of search. Of course none of these cases made national news.

------------------------------------------------------------
20 N.J. Men Allege Sexual Abuse By Lutheran Pastor
http://www.rickross.com/reference/clergy/clergy747.html

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Lutheran: 14 win sex abuse settlement for 38 million
http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/MYSA01_10B_2edlutheran0501_7fb288dd_html.html

More church coverup on this case
http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/bookreviews/index.ssf?/abuse/index.ssf?/abuse/more/1069936237100340.html
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Settlement reached in sex abuse case involving Lutheran pastor
http://religiouschildabuse.blogspot.com/2009/01/settlement-reached-in-sex-abuse-case.html
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Major sex abuse uncovered in Anglican Church, July 16 2003
A South Australian police task force into child sex abuse within the Anglican Church had identified 217 victims and 48 possible offenders, police said today.

However the number of victims could rise to more than 400 as investigations continued, Police Commissioner Mal Hyde said
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/AustrailianAnglicanScandal1.htm

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Jehovah's Witnesses congregation in Othello sued in sex abuse case
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/beliz1.htm
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Child abuse cases allege Jehovah Witness cover-up
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9859/child-abuse-cases-allege-jehovah-witness-cover-up
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[Gabby]

promoted was my choice of words - i could be very wrong that the appointment to rome equates to a 'promotion'.
He was not promoted. Being moved to Rome is not a promotion. It’s just a new duty assignment. He was put in charge of a Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, with the title of Archpriest. That means he in charge of several parishes. It’s mostly a clerical type position…. Sort of a working retirement. He’s pushing 80 now.
i see his appointment to rome and his involvement with the selection of the newest pope to certainly be an elevated position.
Church law states that all cardinals vote for the Pope. He would have been able to vote for the Pope whether or not he was in Rome. Cardinals live all over the world and still vote for the Pope. There are about 181 cardinals. He was one vote out of all of those. It’s like when congress persons vote. As long as they are still members of congress they get to vote.
whether his position in the church represents a move 'up' means little to me. the man violated key points of what the church supposedly stands for and the result was he got to be part of choosing the pope.
Since I was not in on the inner circle of all that happened, I have no idea if he violated the key points of what the church stands for. I know that the in other areas of the professional life he is considered a very accomplished man who helped a lot of people.

that speaks volumes to me about the church at the highest levels. that man belongs behind bars, not electing popes.
Hm, so you make the judgment that he belongs behind bars. But apparently he did not break any laws. There was plenty of opportunity to press charges against him and prosecute him. Yet no court of law ever considered anything he did as having broken any law.

Most of the cases that came to light occurred years before he even as appointed to Boston. Most of the cases were never proven in a court of law. Instead people came forward with accusations years, even decades, after they happened.

What gets me about these cases is that the victims and their parents did not press charges. Instead they simply sued the Church.

I’m with anyone who holds the Church’s feet to the fire on the sexual abuse cases. I’m glad that this all came to light so that we can end these horrible crimes. Even if they are done by a small percentage of the priests, one case to one case too many.

I also hold the parents of the victims responsible for allow this to go on. I don’t understand why the parents did not press charges. Most of the kids Catholic priest have molested are boys between the ages of 13 and 17. Many of the parents knew what was going on. They said that they went to the Church about it and the Church did nothing? Why didn’t they go to the police about it? I’d call the police first and go to the church second.

[slick_trip]

The prevelance of child abuse within the Catholic Church has been no greater than among other Christian secs, Muslims or Jews.

The volume of abuse is the same if 10 Catholic Priests abuse as it is if 10 Prodestants, 10 Jews or 10 Mulisms abuse. The heirarchy of any of these groups has been as likely to protect their abusing clergy as Catholics.

It does not take much effort searching on line to find cases on line of not only clergy of other denominations who molest children but to find cases of the church heirarchy involved in cover ups. Here are a few I fond a only a few minutes of search. Of course none of these cases made national news.

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20 N.J. Men Allege Sexual Abuse By Lutheran Pastor
http://www.rickross.com/reference/clergy/clergy747.html

------------------------------------------------------------
Lutheran: 14 win sex abuse settlement for 38 million
http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/MYSA01_10B_2edlutheran0501_7fb288dd_html.html

More church coverup on this case
http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/bookreviews/index.ssf?/abuse/index.ssf?/abuse/more/1069936237100340.html
------------------------------------------------------------


Settlement reached in sex abuse case involving Lutheran pastor
http://religiouschildabuse.blogspot.com/2009/01/settlement-reached-in-sex-abuse-case.html
------------------------------------------------------------
Major sex abuse uncovered in Anglican Church, July 16 2003
A South Australian police task force into child sex abuse within the Anglican Church had identified 217 victims and 48 possible offenders, police said today.

However the number of victims could rise to more than 400 as investigations continued, Police Commissioner Mal Hyde said
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/AustrailianAnglicanScandal1.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Jehovah's Witnesses congregation in Othello sued in sex abuse case
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/beliz1.htm
------------------------------------------------------------

Child abuse cases allege Jehovah Witness cover-up
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9859/child-abuse-cases-allege-jehovah-witness-cover-up
------------------------------------------------------------

uh...ok...abuse is a human condition. i see your point.

hope none of my posts came across as defending any other religion. the op is about the catholic church and i've kept my responses directed towards that topic.

[slick_trip]

He was not promoted. Being moved to Rome is not a promotion. It’s just a new duty assignment. He was put in charge of a Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, with the title of Archpriest. That means he in charge of several parishes. It’s mostly a clerical type position…. Sort of a working retirement. He’s pushing 80 now.

Church law states that all cardinals vote for the Pope. He would have been able to vote for the Pope whether or not he was in Rome. Cardinals live all over the world and still vote for the Pope. There are about 181 cardinals. He was one vote out of all of those. It’s like when congress persons vote. As long as they are still members of congress they get to vote.

Since I was not in on the inner circle of all that happened, I have no idea if he violated the key points of what the church stands for. I know that the in other areas of the professional life he is considered a very accomplished man who helped a lot of people.


Hm, so you make the judgment that he belongs behind bars. But apparently he did not break any laws. There was plenty of opportunity to press charges against him and prosecute him. Yet no court of law ever considered anything he did as having broken any law.

Most of the cases that came to light occurred years before he even as appointed to Boston. Most of the cases were never proven in a court of law. Instead people came forward with accusations years, even decades, after they happened.

What gets me about these cases is that the victims and their parents did not press charges. Instead they simply sued the Church.

I’m with anyone who holds the Church’s feet to the fire on the sexual abuse cases. I’m glad that this all came to light so that we can end these horrible crimes. Even if they are done by a small percentage of the priests, one case to one case too many.

I also hold the parents of the victims responsible for allow this to go on. I don’t understand why the parents did not press charges. Most of the kids Catholic priest have molested are boys between the ages of 13 and 17. Many of the parents knew what was going on. They said that they went to the Church about it and the Church did nothing? Why didn’t they go to the police about it? I’d call the police first and go to the church second.

first....

one person is responsible for said acts - the individual pedophile. the sick **** who thinks sex with children is appropriate.

beyond that, an organization with integrity would remove an authority figure who failed, on more than one occasion, to protect the children from the monsters he knew or had growing, supported suspicion were violating kids.

whether his paid position in rome is a knock down on the church ladder means nothing to me - he shouldn't be in the organization at all. he may very well be a man of accomplishment. he is also a man who failed here.

the explanation showing how many are involved with the selection of the pope also means nothing. the number should have been what it is minus one - mr. law. that is what i find most disturbing - that man was still allowed to influence the pinnacle of leadership within the church.

[captusa]

The prevelance of child abuse within the Catholic Church has been no greater than among other Christian secs, Muslims or Jews.

The volume of abuse is the same if 10 Catholic Priests abuse as it is if 10 Prodestants, 10 Jews or 10 Mulisms abuse. The heirarchy of any of these groups has been as likely to protect their abusing clergy as Catholics.

.........
------

The fact is that the other religions' heirarchy do not have the mechanism to protect or shield their abusing clergy as the Catholic church.
For example there is no Jewish heirarchy that could protect a rabbi in any way.
This is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism but a statement referring to ease of transfering errant priests without reasons or records.
In my experience the outrage of believing Catholics to the Catholic church's history in shielding child abusing clegy is far more intense than that of those outside the church.

[historynut]

The fact is that the other religions' heirarchy do not have the mechanism to protect or shield their abusing clergy as the Catholic church.
For example there is no Jewish heirarchy that could protect a rabbi in any way.
This is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism but a statement referring to ease of transfering errant priests without reasons or records.
In my experience the outrage of believing Catholics to the Catholic church's history in shielding child abusing clegy is far more intense than that of those outside the church.

The Catholic church is not the only religion with a heirarchy. The heirarchy of other churchs also have heirarchy that protected or shielded their abusing clergy by transfering errant clergy without reasons or records. "Pastor X has been transfered to a church in Alaska that has been without a pastor for 2 years, let us pray for him".

Anglican, Lutheran and Methodist churches have bishops and heirarchy similar to the Catholic church and there has been abuse in all. Check the internet.

[Fitz]

It is super funny. Sean Hannity would never question the rural right-wing religious zealot vote that RE-ELECTED GWB during a bad economy, a bad war, bad war funding etc, - but now that the same rural right-wing religious zealot vote has re-elected Ahmadinejad - he is all in support of the left-wing, big city, Tehran, liberal, elite, college-educated, secularist, anti-Ahmadinejad protestors - ignoring the views/votes of the religious, rural, conservative, farmer, fly-over Iranian conservatives.

Odd to me.

Just keep copy-pasting, you'll probably find a relevant thread eventually.