Grandma get Tasered!

[Wookinstien]

A 72-year-old woman is pulled over for speeding, then tasered and sent to jail. Kathryn Winkfein says she drives to Austin about twice a month to do her shopping. But on a Monday afternoon, a Travis County Constable deputy pulled her over, on her way back to Granite Schoals.
The full article and is worth the time to read.
http://www.myfoxaustin.com/dpp/news/local/052909_Grandmother_Tasered_at_Traffic_Stop

Sorry but this is kinda funny. I just saw the police video on ABC. She was trying to push her way around the Cop onto the highway. The Cop warned her to stop, she threw a few more colorful metaphors and got zapped.

priceless.....

If a cop says stop, you stop. If you think its wrong take it to court.--simple.

[GA_LP]

"Here and here. Two places, side by side. It's unreal. It's like an electric shock," she said.:)):)) No, Grandma, it IS an electric shock. :rolleyes::doh:

[Wookinstien]

Grandma's saving grace was she didn't say

"Don't Tase me bro!"

[Wookinstien]

Here is the story I saw on ABC..

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7797141

This shows the police dash cam video of the incident. Lady gets agitated with the cop and tries to get back in her car. Cop tries to keep her from running out on the highway then warns her to stop she doesn't and gets zapped.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

"Step back or I'm going to taser you."

Bet next time she listens.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Grandma's saving grace was she didn't say

"Don't Tase me bro!"
:))

[Army Wife]

I'll bet she was shocked...just SHOCKED!! How dare he do what he said he was going to do...






:mrgreen:

[LouC]

"...pulled away from him I did not," she said,..."

What is she the mother of Yoda? :))

[Techgod]

I can see why he had to take her down with electricity. I doubt he could have physically restrained her.

It was either that or shoot her.

[Techgod]

Wow. She looks soooo dangerous and unstoppable!


Same way we take down 300lb crack heads works great on grandmothers to boot!

[LouC]

I can see why he had to take her down with electricity. I doubt he could have physically restrained her.

It was either that or shoot her.

I vote shoot the stubborn old Texas bitty.

One round in the leg and she would stay off the road.
----------------

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk296/bigoldfartdude/SarcasmOff.jpg

[RTchoke]

"...pulled away from him I did not," she said,..."

What is she the mother of Yoda? :))

:))

[MrShotShot]

If nothing else, this is a case for the safety of tasers.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

This little old woman standing next to that huge deputy/constable...and he had to use a taser because why again? She got mouthy? Wasn't following his orders locked step as he yelled at her? Wouldn't sign a ticket? Hmmmm...It all sounds like malarkey to me....Those two got intoa peeing contest..and the constable won. Maybe bubba constable will have to learn you can't yell at a 72 year old woman wihtout getting your mouth washed out with soap? Maybe 72 year old woman will have to learn that the constable will most certainly tase you if his ego is in question. Gads...what is wrong with people?

I feel sorry for the Judge in this case....can you imagine?

~Mysty

[Army Wife]

I vote shoot the stubborn old Texas bitty.

One round in the leg and she would stay off the road.

hey them old Goat Texas Ladies can be a mean bunch! I agree with Lou...fire one off into her knee cap and instant submission...then she can get a knee replacement and stop complaining about her arthritis. :)

[MrShotShot]

This little old woman standing next to that huge deputy/constable...and he had to use a taser because why again? She got mouthy? Wasn't following his orders locked step as he yelled at her? Wouldn't sign a ticket? Hmmmm...It all sounds like malarkey to me....Those two got intoa peeing contest..and the constable won. Maybe bubba constable will have to learn you can't yell at a 72 year old woman wihtout getting your mouth washed out with soap? Maybe 72 year old woman will have to learn that the constable will most certainly tase you if his ego is in question. Gads...what is wrong with people?

I feel sorry for the Judge in this case....can you imagine?

~Mysty

I've often noted a distinct disparity in the level of professionalism and training among LOEs in being able to handle these types of situations.

In Upstate New York, almost every little town has its own police force and you end up with a lot of individuals who aren't, in my opinion, really trained or prepared to handle a situation such as this without escalation. Aside from training, a great deal is determined by age, maturity level, and even intelligence. It simply takes a much more experienced individual to control a situation like this using their brains vs their brawn.

Perhaps this is part of the issue in this situation, perhaps not.

But I do know from my own experience, I would much rather deal with, say, the New York State Police vs anyone on the 5-man police force in my little town.

[MrDuffy]

Didn't think he'd do it, did ya Granny? Huh, did ya? Huh, did ya? Huh, did ya? Huh, did ya?
Boy he sure fooled you, didn't he? Huh? Fooled ya, didn't he? Huh? Didn't he.
Duh.
Life is like a bowl of cherries. Ya gotta look out for the pits.

[birddog1]

I've often noted a distinct disparity in the level of professionalism and training among LOEs in being able to handle these types of situations.

In Upstate New York, almost every little town has its own police force and you end up with a lot of individuals who aren't, in my opinion, really trained or prepared to handle a situation such as this without escalation. Aside from training, a great deal is determined by age, maturity level, and even intelligence. It simply takes a much more experienced individual to control a situation like this using their brains vs their brawn.

Perhaps this is part of the issue in this situation, perhaps not.

But I do know from my own experience, I would much rather deal with, say, the New York State Police vs anyone on the 5-man police force in my little town.

I don't know about TX but in my state Constables are un-paided elected positions. That means the only people interested in them are power hungry dim wits that can't even make the cut for small town police forces.

Several years ago one of those elected constables decided he didn't like a poor elderly man riding a golf cart to go get his groceries so he pulled him over and beat him with a Mag light. He would have gotten away with it if it had not been for the public outrage over the incident, he still got off rather lightly for what he did.

[LouC]

...Gads...what is wrong with people?...

Yes why did she escalate a simple thing, sign your name appear in court, into his having to tase her for her own good?

[Residential Bob]

She ought to thank them for possibly jump-starting her heart.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

I've often noted a distinct disparity in the level of professionalism and training among LOEs in being able to handle these types of situations.

In Upstate New York, almost every little town has its own police force and you end up with a lot of individuals who aren't, in my opinion, really trained or prepared to handle a situation such as this without escalation. Aside from training, a great deal is determined by age, maturity level, and even intelligence. It simply takes a much more experienced individual to control a situation like this using their brains vs their brawn.

Perhaps this is part of the issue in this situation, perhaps not.

But I do know from my own experience, I would much rather deal with, say, the New York State Police vs anyone on the 5-man police force in my little town.

Agree whole heartily!

As I watched that video from the constable's 'dash cam'..I noticed how escalated both individuals were. As I said...both got caught up in a peeing contest..and the taser won. Did it have to come to that? No..the 72 year old should have signed her ticked and took her case to the judge. The officer should have reeled in his 'bubba' ego and taken a different approach to said old bitty. Neither acted in their best interest.

~Mysty

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

Yes why did she escalate a simple thing, sign your name appear in court, into his having to tase her for her own good?

I agree she should have simply signed the darn ticket and taken her case to court. On the other side of the story..If I've got some punk nosed cop slamming me verbally...being disrespectful...and had stooped to actually yelling at me?..I'd not take it well either. Both are in the wrong here...however only one will 'pay' for the poor behavior.

~Mysty

[pattyk]

I saw it too.

That cop was HUGE! He had no reason to taze her and I hope she wins the lawsuit.

In my opinion, those tazers are used way too much on people.

what the hell did the cops use before tazers? what if she would have died like others have.

sickening video.

[MrShotShot]

I don't know about TX but in my state Constables are un-paided elected positions. That means the only people interested in them are power hungry dim wits that can't even make the cut for small town police forces.

Several years ago one of those elected constables decided he didn't like a poor elderly man riding a golf cart to go get his groceries so he pulled him over and beat him with a Mag light. He would have gotten away with it if it had not been for the public outrage over the incident, he still got off rather lightly for what he did.

I was wondering about that as well. I grew up in Mississippi and the Constable was an elected position.

[LouC]

I saw it too.

That cop was HUGE!

Well I guess he should have let her walk out into traffic and whatever she wanted to do while he called for diminutive female backup to deal with the little old lady.

He had no reason to taze her and I hope she wins the lawsuit.

Guess he could have body slammed her to keep her from going out into traffic an to get her to comply with simple commands like they used to do before they were issued tasers to avoid physical confrontations.

In my opinion, those tazers are used way too much on people.

I agree, I liked shooting and beating with batons instead.

what the hell did the cops use before tazers?

Shooting, batons, physical contact.

what if she would have died like others have.

Besides not likely filing a lawsuit?

What if?

What if he had not insisted she move and a vehicle struck her when she entered the road cause she didn't like Bubba's attitude and he had not done anything to stop her cause he is Huge and she isn't.

sickening video.

What is sickening to me is people driving 60 mph in a construction zone.

Then their copping an attitude when they encounter a cop.

[Talk2Bill]

don't tase me sonny


she was on the local news and was given a trascript of the dash cam video and she sore it was all a lie.

she got what she deserved. the cop was in the right.

[Talk2Bill]

She ought to thank them for possibly jump-starting her heart.

Might be time for a song parody! "kick start my heart" by Motly Crue!

[Talk2Bill]

Tase-Start My Heart

When i go shopping
I drive at a high speed
Full sized Chevy truck's
A drug for me
My heart, my heart
Tase-start my heart
Always got the cops
Coming after me
45 MPHs too slow for me
My heart, my heart
Kickstart my heart


Ooh, are you ready to tase?
Ooh, i DARE YOU to tase me now!

Ooh, yeh
Tase-start my heart
Give it a start
Ooh, yeh, copper
Ooh, yeh
Tase-start my heart
Hope it never stops
Ooh, yeh, baby

Drive to Austin
to save on food
I'm a grandma
on a fixed income
My heart, my heart
Tase-start my heart

Say i got trouble
Trouble in my eyes
I'm just looking for
a really good buy
My heart, my heart
Tase-start my heart

When I left for AUSTIN
All I needed, needed was some milk
miles gone by...i'd relized i forgot the milk
(Tase Me)
When i'm enraged
I hit the gas
Adrenalin rushing
Through my varicose veins
And i'd say I still need some Milk!

Ooo, ahh, Tase-start my heart
I hope it never stops
And to think, we did all of this...
for Milk!

[Chucky]

Maybe there's an update coming for "Grandma got run over by a reindeer"...

[LouC]

Frankly I don't have sympathy for the crotchety old lady.

She says she goes that way shopping twice a week.

If there is construction work there in both directions then she has likely been speeding through there at least four times a week, since she sure doesn't seem to think rules apply to little old ladies.

Had she hit some construction worker and killed them people would be whining that the Constables didn't do their job.

"Where is a cop when you need one?"

How Significant is the Work Zone Safety Problem?

Work zone safety is a growing roadway safety concern. In 2007, there were 835 work zone fatalities; this figure represents 2.0% of all roadway fatalities for the year. Over four out of every five-work zone fatalities were motorists. In addition, there are over 40,000 injuries in work zones.

Can You Put This in Perspective?

* One work zone fatality every 10 hours (2.3 a day)
* One work zone injury every 13 minutes (110 a day)

Fed Dot LINK (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/wz/facts_stats/)

Heck the cop may have saved her life by putting the fear of Bubba and taser darts into her.

[uncledoom]

I was never a fan of the taser. Bring back the days of the 12 inch steel flashlights, lead-lined gloves, and the slap jack. A punch to the sternum would have put her ass in line.

[FidelisAdMortem]

After the police video was released, the so called innocent granny changed her tune. The video showed her to be a liar. Taser was justified via the video.

[AeroEngineer]

Both individuals are at fault for the outcome of the situation.

[ConstitutionHugger]

Its really a messed up situation all around, to be honest.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

what the hell did the cops use before tazers?

Guns, nightsticks, beatdowns.

Seriously, physically restraining someone (especially an older person) poses more risk of injury than being tased.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Shooting, batons, physical contact.Great minds :lol:



(I swear I hadn't read your post yet when I posted mine lol)

[LouC]

Great minds :lol:



(I swear I hadn't read your post yet when I posted mine lol)

Morning Emma :hug:

That is funny.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Morning Emma :hug:

That is funny.

Mornin' Lou :hug:

[Trinka]

Would this be so funny...if the 72 yr old what? Bitty? had died...?

And for what? Being mouthy? Stuburn..old lady? I question why the officer was so bent out of shape in the first place? When did we start hand cuffing a speeder? Oh she didn't want to sign the ticket...what ever....Attention All Grand Ma's Out There, Kiss an officers ....shoes or you'll be wearing cuffs, after being tased! If that had been my 72 yr old dad before he died...with his pace maker, he'd probably have been dead...this aint really funny.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Would this be so funny...if the 72 yr old what? Bitty? had died...?

And for what? Being mouthy? Stuburn..old lady? I question why the officer was so bent out of shape in the first place? When did we start hand cuffing a speeder? Oh she didn't want to sign the ticket...what ever....Attention All Grand Ma's Out There, Kiss an officers ....shoes or you'll be wearing cuffs, after being tased! If that had been my 72 yr old dad before he died...with his pace maker, he'd probably have been dead...this aint really funny.

Well, I'm a grandma (I was a child bride! I swear! lol), and if I acted like she did I'd expect to be tased.

Especially after the cop said, "Step back or I'm going to taser you."

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

BTW

When did we start hand cuffing a speeder? Oh she didn't want to sign the ticket...what ever.

She wasn't cuffed for speeding or refusing to sign the ticket.

[ThrowCop]

His only options were to physically restrain the woman & the way she was acting, it seemed to me she was going to struggle & with someone of advanced age, that can mean physical injury.

The use of the taser took away her ability to struggle & the officer controlled her without having to use more excessive force.

Being tasered is not at all pleasant but it is better than the nightstick or a pain compliance hold.

The officer did the right thing, IMO.

[LouC]

Would this be so funny...if the 72 yr old what? Bitty? had died...?

And for what? Being mouthy? Stuburn..old lady? I question why the officer was so bent out of shape in the first place? When did we start hand cuffing a speeder? Oh she didn't want to sign the ticket...what ever....Attention All Grand Ma's Out There, Kiss an officers ....shoes or you'll be wearing cuffs, after being tased! If that had been my 72 yr old dad before he died...with his pace maker, he'd probably have been dead...this aint really funny.

Well if ones 72 year old dad was selfishly driving like an idiot with an above the law mentality through construction zones putting himself and other drivers plus younger mom and dad construction workers at risk for their lives, then they got an attitude of superiority and refused to follow simple directions of the officer who stopped them knowing they had a pace maker yet taunting the officer to go ahead and tase them, forcing him to tase them, because they felt they didn't need to comply it would be all on them if they died.

[LouC]

His only options were to physically restrain the woman & the way she was acting, it seemed to me she was going to struggle & with someone of advanced age, that can mean physical injury.

The use of the taser took away her ability to struggle & the officer controlled her without having to use more excessive force.

Being tasered is not at all pleasant but it is better than the nightstick or a pain compliance hold.

The officer did the right thing, IMO.

Tasers are issued with the object of minimizing the amount of physical contact / force between officers and the public and the resultant injuries to all parties that occur during such contact, at least I was under the impression that was the thinking behind them.

[Samm]

His only options were to physically restrain the woman & the way she was acting, it seemed to me she was going to struggle & with someone of advanced age, that can mean physical injury.

The use of the taser took away her ability to struggle & the officer controlled her without having to use more excessive force.

Being tasered is not at all pleasant but it is better than the nightstick or a pain compliance hold.

The officer did the right thing, IMO.

The cop did the right thing regardless of her age or gender. Being an old woman is not an excuse for disobeying an officer... or for being an *******.

[stodr]

Tasers are issued with the object of minimizing the amount of physical contact / force between officers and the public and the resultant injuries to all parties that occur during such contact, at least I was under the impression that was the thinking behind them.

One could argue it is more dangerouse to taser an elderly women then it would be to restrain them.

Seems to me a better course of action would have been to let her go and difuse the situation then arrest her later at a much better place then the side of the highway. that is of course with the benefit of hindsight.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

One could argue it is more dangerouse to taser an elderly women then it would be to restrain them.



Hardly.

[stodr]

Hardly.

You would know better then me. You probally have had to restrain a few, however this is where I got it from:

Benefits of TASER's

If properly used:

May reduce use of deadly force

May reduce injuries to suspects

May reduce injuries to officers by suspects

May reduce litigation by injured suspects

Recommendations

Only use TASER for physically assaultive subjects

Limit number of TASER exposures when possible (3 is probably a reasonable number)

Identify high-risk subjects: age extremes, pregnancy, excited delirium
If possible avoid using TASER on pregnant women, elderly and very young

Weigh the alternatives to the TASER (deadly force, baton…) and use TASER when preferable to alternatives

Allow appropriate exceptions to limits on TASER use: It is better to be "tasered" than shot!

Train all officers in excited delirium recognition and management

Call EMS if high-risk subject

Call EMS if more than 3 TASER exposures

TASER's should not replace training and other weapons (defensive tactics, baton, firearm…)

When properly used, TASER is generally non-deadly force, but should be considered higher on the physical force scale than OC

Safest to avoid exposure during training, whether students volunteer to be exposed or not


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Czarnecki/Taser.Recommendations.htm

I am guessing your lawyers at the hospital would never allow you guys to taser elderly folks in lieu of restraining them due to fear of lawsuits from injuries.

[LouC]

One could argue it is more dangerouse to taser an elderly women then it would be to restrain them.

Why?

The tasering was part of restraining her.

One could also argue it would be best to take her license away if she has no greater respect for others safety when she drives and thinks she is above the law and not to be held to the same limits as others.

Seems to me a better course of action would have been to let her go and difuse the situation then arrest her later at a much better place then the side of the highway. that is of course with the benefit of hindsight.

Maybe the Constable should have checked his schedule and worked out a day with her that would have been better for her to have him swing by and arrest her for resisting arrest?

No that would not be a better course.

If we have officers letting everyone go just because they engage in defiant behavior, in order to diffuse situations, we will soon have chaos on the roads and people will be calling for someones head.

[GA_LP]

Would this be so funny...if the 72 yr old what? Bitty? had died...?

And for what? Being mouthy? Stuburn..old lady? I question why the officer was so bent out of shape in the first place? When did we start hand cuffing a speeder? Oh she didn't want to sign the ticket...what ever....Attention All Grand Ma's Out There, Kiss an officers ....shoes or you'll be wearing cuffs, after being tased! If that had been my 72 yr old dad before he died...with his pace maker, he'd probably have been dead...this aint really funny.When you are stopped, you are in a custodial arrest circumstance. By signing the ticket, you are in fact being released on "bail". If you refuse to sign the ticket, you get to go to jail and actually deal with the judge for bail. Grandma got what she deserved for violating the law and non-compliance with the lawful orders of the deputy - being 72, she should have known better.

[stodr]

Why?

The tasering was part of restraining her.

I don't know I am not a doctor maybe you ask the medical guy that participated in the police study I linked too

One could also argue it would be best to take her license away if she has no greater respect for others safety when she drives and thinks she is above the law and not to be held to the same limits as others.

That could be argued and I would agree with that, what is your point? did I say anywhere that she was not in the wrong.

Maybe the Constable should have checked his schedule and worked out a day with her that would have been better for her to have him swing by and arrest her for resisting arrest?

Officers have many options to diffuse situations. Ever hear of them halting a high speed pursuit because of the danger it presented to the public especially when they knew they could arrest him later? I have never stated the officer was wrong just that there was a better option in my opinion. And I formed that opinion with the benefit of hind sight like I said. however I was wrong I thought in TX the officer could sign "refuse to sign" and go from there. but that does not look like the case.


No that would not be a better course.

Thats fine that is your opinion and probally most others on here.

[LouC]

I don't know I am not a doctor maybe you ask the medical guy that participated in the police study I linked too

Not that interested in this to pursue it that far.

That could be argued and I would agree with that, what is your point? did I say anywhere that she was not in the wrong.

Hey simmer down there, I was just following your lead in mentioning things that could be argued, next time let me know if there is a lead that is off limits, okay?

Why don't you make some more wild idiotic analogies.

I was just following your idiotic lead of saying to let her go and arresting her later at a better place than the side of the road.

Again if you do not want me to follow your idiotic lead please do say so up front so I don't waste time doing so.

Officers have many options to diffuse situations.

So do those who have been pulled over, first of which is to not break the speed limit in the first place, second to just sign for the ticket and be on your way, third to not resist an officer as if laws do not apply to you.

In getting that drivers license you are agreeing to abide by the rules of the road, she was flat out wrong and she failed miserably to diffuse the situation.

He could have kneecapped her, that would have taken the wind out of her agitated sails.

Ever hear of them halting a high speed pursuit because of the danger it presented to the public especially when they knew they could arrest him later?

Yes but that is really relevant to those circumstances not this one.

Backing off is done because it is seen at the time as safer for the public but does not always end in an arrest later, quite often it doesn't, or the person who does not feel the rules apply to them keep driving like idiots and speeding even after the police have "diffused" and they kill innocent people anyway in horrific crashes.

Let us play the game though.

He could have let her go to "diffuse" it as you say, although there was no good reason for letting her go.

But doing so was putting the public and her at greater risk than tasering her and arresting her, she showed without a doubt that she did not think the rules of the road applied to her, a 72 year old women.

She was indifferent to her safety and the safety of other drivers and their passengers and indifferent to the workers in the construction zone.

Heck letting an agitated, distracted, angry, above the law person get back in their vehicle and drive off would have been the height of reprehensible for the Constable.

I have never stated the officer was wrong just that there was a better option in my opinion.

Maybe there was, like her not speeding, or her just signing the ticket and being off on her way.

And I formed that opinion with the benefit of hind sight like I said.

But I am using hind and fore sight.

Quit being so obtuse

I am not being obtuse, I am being reasonably adamant.

Thats fine that is your opinion and probally most others on here.

Oh I don't know if I would say most others share my opinion about the sweet little old bitty?

[Samm]

When you are stopped, you are in a custodial arrest circumstance. By signing the ticket, you are in fact being released on "bail". If you refuse to sign the ticket, you get to go to jail and actually deal with the judge for bail. Grandma got what she deserved for violating the law and non-compliance with the lawful orders of the deputy - being 72, she should have known better.

Yep... and belligerently saying over and over to a cop "you gonna taze a 72 year-old woman?" is just plain stupid... particularly when the cop said he would. ;)

[Broseph]

Cops used to be trained to never use force unless absolutely necessary. Now, it's all about officer safety first and collateral damage... oh well.

As far as 'non-lethal' tasers go, that term is pretty much as oxymoron. They have induced death many times since their inception.

Also, remember that the police report is as objective as the defendant's version. It's not as if a computer without a stake in the game prints up the arrest report. It's written by a person that represents the state in the court case of the state vs the defendant. At least in this case, there is some video.

[AutoRacer55]

Didn't she also get run over by a reindeer?

[sgtmac_46]

Cops used to be trained to never use force unless absolutely necessary. Now, it's all about officer safety first and collateral damage... oh well.

As far as 'non-lethal' tasers go, that term is pretty much as oxymoron. They have induced death many times since their inception.

Also, remember that the police report is as objective as the defendant's version. It's not as if a computer without a stake in the game prints up the arrest report. It's written by a person that represents the state in the court case of the state vs the defendant. At least in this case, there is some video.

What do you know about officer training past or present? Old episodes of Hill Street Blues?

The rest of the post is equally asinine, including the notion that Tasers have 'induced death many times'.......a statement you can't remotely prove, because it's fallacious and illustrates a fundamental inability to differentiate causation with correlation..........I bet you think the sun causes your alarm clock to go off too.

This whole 'Taser Hysteria' crap everyone has is BS, pure and simple.....i've been Tasered dozens of times......I should be dead several times over according to some internet experts on this forum and elsewhere.




As for police reports......funny how this officers matched the video, while grandma's story wildly deviated from it......I LOVED the interview where she swore she in no way did any of the things she was alleged to have done.......then upon learning there was a video, and SEEING it........HAD NOTHING ELSE TO SAY! Who was the liar?! :))

[sgtmac_46]

His only options were to physically restrain the woman & the way she was acting, it seemed to me she was going to struggle & with someone of advanced age, that can mean physical injury.

The use of the taser took away her ability to struggle & the officer controlled her without having to use more excessive force.

Being tasered is not at all pleasant but it is better than the nightstick or a pain compliance hold.

The officer did the right thing, IMO.
I'd have grabbed her and spun her around if it came to that..........but that's not the same as calling his actions wrong. They were objectively reasonable. I would have chosen physical force for my own part.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Didnt an eldery person just blow away a heroic guard at the holocaust museum?

No matter age, anyone can be a threat and a deadly one.

Which is why I get baffled when children are involved, and armchair quarterbacks just like with old people believe children cannot be a threat.

Newsflash, officers have been shot and killed by children/young teens.

Age should never be taken into account when addressing a threatening situation. The situation rests solely on the individual and there threatening behavior.

The video here clearly shows the officer is justified, imagine if there was no video?

Something to think about before one rushes to judgement.

[traditional_woman]

I was expecting to see a smaller, more frail, more hunch-backed,more submissive woman. I saw the opposite.She shouldn't have told him to taze her, NOBODY is exempt.

I don't think he tazed her for her own 'safety' as one of the articles elluded to, but b/c he was frustrated/agitated and wanted her to comply.

[Cav Scout]

Cops used to be trained to never use force unless absolutely necessary. Now, it's all about officer safety first and collateral damage... oh well.

As far as 'non-lethal' tasers go, that term is pretty much as oxymoron. They have induced death many times since their inception.

Also, remember that the police report is as objective as the defendant's version. It's not as if a computer without a stake in the game prints up the arrest report. It's written by a person that represents the state in the court case of the state vs the defendant. At least in this case, there is some video.

After reading your many responses to anything in a thread involving police, I have come to the conclusion that there will not ever be anything a Police officer can do that is right in your eyes. Me thinks you have been a frequent name to your local officers...

[smyrna]

The officer was in the right but he got into the situation of tasering her because he handled it very poorly. His youth, ego, pride and machismo definitely were not an asset in this situation. I am not saying that he is a bad cop, but there is room for improvement.

[sgtmac_46]

The officer was in the right but he got into the situation of tasering her because he handled it very poorly. His youth, ego, pride and machismo definitely were not an asset in this situation. I am not saying that he is a bad cop, but there is room for improvement.
Fair assessment.

[sgtmac_46]

Didnt an eldery person just blow away a heroic guard at the holocaust museum?

No matter age, anyone can be a threat and a deadly one.

Which is why I get baffled when children are involved, and armchair quarterbacks just like with old people believe children cannot be a threat.

Newsflash, officers have been shot and killed by children/young teens.

Age should never be taken into account when addressing a threatening situation. The situation rests solely on the individual and there threatening behavior.

The video here clearly shows the officer is justified, imagine if there was no video?

Something to think about before one rushes to judgement.

Yeah, he was 88 years old........another disturbing example.

<Warning....video is disturbing>

http://www.vidmax.com/video/57688/Texas_State_Trooper_Randy_Vetter_Killed_After_Traf fic_Stop/

It was a 72 year old man that killed Trooper Randy Vetter.

[sgtmac_46]

After reading your many responses to anything in a thread involving police, I have come to the conclusion that there will not ever be anything a Police officer can do that is right in your eyes. Me thinks you have been a frequent name to your local officers...

Me thinks you may be right!

In fact, i'm gonna bet when his address comes across the radio the officers responding roll their eyes with a collective 'Aw, geez, not again!'

[nortman]

Wookie, tell your grandma that she shouldn't speed and that she should obey the police officer and then she won't get zapped. :mrgreen:



I don't care how obnoxious the officer is, there are better ways of dealing with him than to give him an excuse to taser you.

[sgtmac_46]

The sad part is that the Taser is likely to cause less physical injury than other techniques, BUT officers are increasingly hesitant to use the Taser in these circumstances, not because it's more dangerous, but because it 'looks' worse......even if the other options cause more injury.

Bosepheus alluded to an earlier imaginary golden era when police officers let everyone do what they wanted, and kept their one bullet in their pocket........the reality is that, prior to the 1980's, police had a firearm and maybe a stick or sap........and resistance was met with a beating......NOT the attempt to use control methods, but often a belligerent drunk had his scalp laid open by an officers sap.

Since the 1970's law enforcement has applied a MORE restrained, yet measured and calculated view of controlling violently resisting subjects.

What I suspect drives some of the animus toward technology like the Taser, and before it, Pepper spray, is a kind of Neo-Luddism, a paranoia about technology, especially of the kind that can overcome an individuals physical ability to fight.........the claims that Tasers kill are wrapped in this belief, and driven by it......the reality, however, doesn't match the packaging.........at best the Taser critics can find a couple hundred deaths that have correlated to a recent use of a Taser............and by fixating on each individual anecdotal story that hope you FORGET that if Tasers really killed there would be THOUSANDS of Taser deaths, not hundreds.....as Tasers have been used literally MILLIONS of times in the last 10 years.

The reality about in-custody deaths is that they are inevitable regardless of the tools applied by the police........why? Because the mechanism of death is NOT the tools utilized by the police, but were, instead, set in motion by the individuals themselves! Specifically, the fact that in almost all cases, with very rare exceptions, the REAL cause of death is cocaine or methamphetamine usage........the very behavior that caused them to come in contact with the police in the first place (by, for example, trying to kill their girlfriend or walking naked down the street yelling at passing cars).

The mechanism of death is almost always hyper-stimulant usage......which naturally results in bizarre and aggressive behavior of the kind requiring Taser (or other force) intervention, so those levels of force are going to LOGICALLY be correlated with those deaths, not the CAUSE of those deaths.

In fact, much evidence exist to show that not only do Tasers NOT kill, but that they instead save many lives under these exact circumstances......by bringing these individuals under control quickly, thereby allowing medical personnel to start intervening with drugs that bring their heart rates and blood pressures down from the dangerous levels created by the hyper-stimulants.........there were far more in-custody deaths when we wrestled with subjects for 20 minutes.......the reasons should be obvious to anyone with half a brain.......20 minutes of massive exertion by someone who's heart rate is ALREADY skyrocketing is likely to result in cardiac arrest!

[sgtmac_46]

Wookie, tell your grandma that she shouldn't speed and that she should obey the police officer and then she won't get zapped. :mrgreen:



I don't care how obnoxious the officer is, there are better ways of dealing with him than to give him an excuse to taser you.

Yeah, no kidding........the words 'Go ahead and Taser me' actually make her more of a volunteer for the program.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Yeah, he was 88 years old........another disturbing example.

<Warning....video is disturbing>

http://www.vidmax.com/video/57688/Texas_State_Trooper_Randy_Vetter_Killed_After_Traf fic_Stop/

It was a 72 year old man that killed Trooper Randy Vetter.

*******it, why didn't they shoot that ************ instead of allowing him to walk about?

****.

And also, note where the hell that happened. In grandma's neck of the woods.

To hell with her. She deserved every volt.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

More evidence that it was God's will, Hale said, is that shortly before the shooting, he signed over his Kyle ranch to his friend Ed Bullock in an agreement that allowed Hale to live there until he died. The arrangement meant Cynthia Vetter could not take the land from him in her wrongful death lawsuit. And, he said, being in prison allowed him to receive free medical care for his heart disease, cataracts and leukemia, which is now in remission.

Yeah. Those cops made a huge mistake.

ETA: per ODMP...

The suspect was known to local officers for claiming he would shoot any officer who tried to write him a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.

[sgtmac_46]

Yeah. Those cops made a huge mistake.

ETA: per ODMP...

Yeah, they should have shot him graveyard dead when he refused to put the rifle down.

What is most difficult to watch is that the ambulance can't even get in to treat Vetter while Hale is still running around with a rifle......it appears that in the last part of the video brother officers are trying to load him in to his car to get him to the ambulance.

[FidelisAdMortem]

If someone has a mentality of **** the law at age 40, that mentality may still be with them at age 70, so age doesnt mean **** to me. A threat is a threat.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Yeah, they should have shot him graveyard dead when he refused to put the rifle down.

What is most difficult to watch is that the ambulance can't even get in to treat Vetter while Hale is still running around with a rifle......it appears that in the last part of the video brother officers are trying to load him in to his car to get him to the ambulance.

Honestly, I can (to a point) understand the first officer not shooting immediately when he sees the old man standing there with a rifle; I suppose it could be argued he didn't know if this was the guy who'd shot Vetter. But that point became irrelevant as it became obvious he WAS the shooter and was quite dangerous. I watch that video and couldn't keep my eyes off the seconds ticking away with Officer Vetter lying in that car while they tried to get the old man to put his weapon down.

Well, screw that all to hell. And no warning to drop it or they'd shoot, either. His warning was the police arriving on the scene.

Damn, I'm so glad my cousin retired last year.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

the ambulance can't even get in to treat Vetter while Hale is still running around with a rifleThat ALONE should have been reason enough to take him out.

[sgtmac_46]

If someone has a mentality of **** the law at age 40, that mentality may still be with them at age 70, so age doesnt mean **** to me. A threat is a threat.

True, that.

[sgtmac_46]

That ALONE should have been reason enough to take him out.

Exactly!

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I noticed that the news edited this dashcam video quite a bit (of grandma getting tased). Is there a full video of the incident available?

I also noticed that since its release, ol' grams has clammed up (no more interviews calling the police report a lie lol).