Boy oh Boy that Stimulus is kicking butt

[notluzn]

26 year high unemployment. Hows those job booming around you people? Is the Crystal Tower being built yet? Congrats to all that Voted for Obama. You get the Gold Star for Failure.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/05/biden-obama-announce-plan-ramp-stimulus-summer/

[zantax]

But how many jobs did he save????


Booosh!!!

Pre-emptive liberal strike.

[notluzn]

I love it. damn I love this crap. Wooooo Hoooooo It's freaking Magic Juice money. Woooo

[hayzooz]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

[notluzn]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression. So you spend money you don't have when you're Broke and expect to make money? Fantastic!

[Beccaria]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

Uh-uh. That's both impossible to prove and evading the issue.

[CaptainCrunch]

Don't concern yourself with how many jobs have been lost but how many jobs there still are! We're talking hundreds of millions of jobs!

Job well done Obama!!

[johnTD]

I'm waiting on some contracts to hopefully come through from a Federal Agency that is directly tied to the Stimulus, should find out next month. My income has dropped about 3/4s of what it was last year, and if these contracts come through, I'll be stoked

[pattyk]

the 21 Czars that Oblamuh hired are getting stimulus money to pay for their work.

I don't know how to search for a link for that one.........

[oldandtired]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

the ONLY recession that we did not recover from was the ONE recession government tried to stimulate with massuive amoiunts of money...and it resulted in a depression.

On the other hand, most recessions last about 16 months if untouched.

So you assume wrong.

[Ninjacorpse]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

Or how much worse it will be because of the actions of our government.

[Laura Fran]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

You got it! From time to time there is a voice of reason on this board....

[hayzooz]

the ONLY recession that we did not recover from was the ONE recession government tried to stimulate with massuive amoiunts of money...and it resulted in a depression.

On the other hand, most recessions last about 16 months if untouched.

So you assume wrong.


That's why unemployment nearly halved after the New Deal, right? Of course, it was FDR's fault.

[Beccaria]

You got it! From time to time there is a voice of reason on this board....

That's about as logical as a man beating his wife, breaking her bones, and somebody saying to her "Well, it could have been worse; he could have killed you."

[oldandtired]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

Seeing as very little if any of the money has been actually spent....I can comfortably say we would be no worse off without the stimulus at this point.

However, many economists said the recession should bottom out somewhere between the 2nd and third quarters of this year.....right about now.....and lo and behold...new unemployment applications DECREASED in may....a sign of bottoming out.

[oldandtired]

That's why unemployment nearly halved after the New Deal, right? Of course, it was FDR's fault.

FDR????


LMAO....you really need to find out when the depression started.

[oldandtired]

You got it! From time to time there is a voice of reason on this board....


And exactly what has the stimulus done?

[Beccaria]

That's why unemployment nearly halved after the New Deal, right? Of course, it was FDR's fault.
Uh no... world war 2 got us out of the depression, bub.

Save your big government tyranny fetish for a country that really wants it.

[oldandtired]

Uh no... world war 2 got us out of the depression, bub.

Save your big government tyranny fetish for a country that really wants it.

I find it quite sad how people are completely misinformed.

They made decisoions based on facts that were nothing but fiction.

The media kept so many people in the dark about history...and sadly, the internet is just a click away.

[Beccaria]

I find it quite sad how people are completely misinformed.

They made decisoions based on facts that were nothing but fiction.

The media kept so many people in the dark about history...and sadly, the internet is just a click away.

Quite right. People also forget that Hoover started the big government rescue during his term, and FDR initially ran on a platform that was AGAINST Hoover's big government solutions.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good political lie.

[johnTD]

Quite right. People also forget that Hoover started the big government rescue during his term, and FDR initially ran on a platform that was AGAINST Hoover's big government solutions.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good political lie.

Isn't building up for war the same exact thing, though done on a much larger scale? Ramping up the US industrial complex creating jobs instead of paying for some TVA type work? Its all big government solutions

[oldandtired]

Quite right. People also forget that Hoover started the big government rescue during his term, and FDR initially ran on a platform that was AGAINST Hoover's big government solutions.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good political lie.

Such was why I was kind of taken aback when he referenced FDR.....

People really weremisled about this stimulus package.

And many still call it the "Stimulus Bill" which shows you how they really did not dig into what it was really all about.

Sad...and our children and grandchildren will suffer for it.

Actually...let my children suffer for it....they've been making me suffer for years!

[oldandtired]

Isn't building up for war the same exact thing, though done on a much larger scale? Ramping up the US industrial complex creating jobs instead of paying for some TVA type work? Its all big government solutions

Interesting point.

I need to do some research before I respond.

I m not the type to refute something with an off the cuff, made up theory.

[mrbungle888]

Isn't building up for war the same exact thing, though done on a much larger scale? Ramping up the US industrial complex creating jobs instead of paying for some TVA type work? Its all big government solutions

The difference was that demand for industry at that time was real instead of artificial. Actual goods and services were needed at that time.

[zantax]

I'm waiting on some contracts to hopefully come through from a Federal Agency that is directly tied to the Stimulus, should find out next month. My income has dropped about 3/4s of what it was last year, and if these contracts come through, I'll be stoked


Matches my personal experience, the only people I know that aren't worried about losing their jobs are government employees too.

[oldandtired]

The difference was that demand for industry at that time was real instead of artificial. Actual goods and services were needed at that time.

That was going to be my initial response....but exactly what difference would that make? For example, we may not NEED a monorail from LA to Vegas...but it WILL be used.

I am having trouble refuting his theory...it seems somewhat sound.

[zantax]

That was going to be my initial response....but exactly what difference would that make? For example, we may not NEED a monorail from LA to Vegas...but it WILL be used.

I am having trouble refuting his theory...it seems somewhat sound.

It wasn't the demand for war goods that got us out of the depression, it was pent up demand after the war was over. Things didn't rebound until after the war.

[oldandtired]

It wasn't the demand for war goods that got us out of the depression, it was pent up demand after the war was over. Things didn't rebound until after the war.

Yes..I can see that.

Much of a recession is based on market saturation...and then years of little to no purchasing of new goods, and the return of thousands to clothes that were old and did not fit, and new technologies, etc, increased demand and the rest is history.

Thanks...I was sitting here very perplexed over John TD's theory....

[zantax]

Yes..I can see that.

Much of a recession is based on market saturation...and then years of little to no purchasing of new goods, and the return of thousands to clothes that were old and did not fit, and new technologies, etc, increased demand and the rest is history.

Thanks...I was sitting here very perplexed over John TD's theory....

At least the relatives I have talked to about their experiences back then certainly never indicated to me that they considered themselves to be living it up during the war, they always told me it was a time of deprivation and sacrifice, not economic good times.

[oldandtired]

At least the relatives I have talked to about their experiences back then certainly never indicated to me that they considered themselves to be living it up during the war, they always told me it was a time of deprivation and sacrifice, not economic good times.


Yes...it absolutely makes sense.

Thanks. I was starting to think maybe the stimulus WAS the aanswer.....

Oh my God...no way...did I just say that?

I gotta go wash my mouth out with listerine...be right back.

[ThrowCop]

All we have done is prolonged the agony.

And passed the costs to our progeny.

Nicely done, DC. :rolleyes:

[zantax]

All we have done is prolonged the agony.

And passed the costs to our progeny.

Nicely done, DC. :rolleyes:

Yup, my kids are on notice to protect them from the propaganda at school that anything good they may be told Obama is doing they will be paying for in increased taxes when they come of age.

[Iggy]

Hey now, you guys aren't giving Obama enough credit. Why, that extra $13 in my paycheck will just about cover 5% of the rise in energy bills I'm expected to get this winter. I don't know how I would've survived without it.

Thank you Prez O! Yes we can!

[johnTD]

Yes..I can see that.

Much of a recession is based on market saturation...and then years of little to no purchasing of new goods, and the return of thousands to clothes that were old and did not fit, and new technologies, etc, increased demand and the rest is history.

Thanks...I was sitting here very perplexed over John TD's theory....

Pent up demand is currently here, the problem is the lack of money to buy the goods. I need a new watch, redo my hardwood floors, new clothes, but the money isn't there. If the stimulus kicks some money my way, my pent up demand will be unleashed on the local economy. I'm looking at you beer store!!! WWII provided the funds to the people through payment of their service (they couldn't spend much money while in the war field) or the manufactoring jobs that were ramped up.

[Centerist]

Uh-uh. That's both impossible to prove and evading the issue.

And it is hard to disprove, what does that say about the issue?

[harumph]

Yup, my kids are on notice to protect them from the propaganda at school that anything good they may be told Obama is doing they will be paying for in increased taxes when they come of age.

I'm pretty sure the 40% (+/-) who don't pay income taxes believe they are immune to these upcoming taxes. Ignorance must be bliss.

[oldandtired]

Pent up demand is currently here, the problem is the lack of money to buy the goods. I need a new watch, redo my hardwood floors, new clothes, but the money isn't there. If the stimulus kicks some money my way, my pent up demand will be unleashed on the local economy. I'm looking at you beer store!!! WWII provided the funds to the people through payment of their service (they couldn't spend much money while in the war field) or the manufactoring jobs that were ramped up.


That may be you....but a year ago, people put that check in the bank.

People have 5 TV's, 3 cars. cell phones AND Ipods....last years fashions are the same this year....

I dont know...I dont belkieve pent up demand exists yet...

But I may be wrong.

[oldandtired]

I'm pretty sure the 40% (+/-) who don't pay income taxes believe they are immune to these upcoming taxes. Ignorance must be bliss.

Yes...I am looking forward to the "shock" when there is no money at the end of the week for a night on the town.

[Centerist]

The difference was that demand for industry at that time was real instead of artificial. Actual goods and services were needed at that time.



What? you are funny.

[zantax]

Pent up demand is currently here, the problem is the lack of money to buy the goods. I need a new watch, redo my hardwood floors, new clothes, but the money isn't there. If the stimulus kicks some money my way, my pent up demand will be unleashed on the local economy. I'm looking at you beer store!!! WWII provided the funds to the people through payment of their service (they couldn't spend much money while in the war field) or the manufactoring jobs that were ramped up.

Oh I think most people are still fearful enough about losing their jobs that any stimulus money will be used to pay down debt or saved. Most people don't go on spending sprees when they are seeing their fellow workers being shown the door at alarming rates, at least in my experience.

[Iggy]

And it is hard to disprove, what does that say about the issue?

And just think of all the other disasters that Obama kept from happening by passing the pork-er, I mean- stimulus bill! 100% unemployment, complete stock market crash, businesses being able to run themselves, famine, pestilence, rise of the Anti-Christ, extinction level events and a myriad of other alternate-reality universes in which flowers are man's greatest enemy and pizza eats people!

BEHOLD HIS MIGHTY HAND!

[oldandtired]

And it is hard to disprove, what does that say about the issue?


So you agree...Obama created a no lose situation for himself...at the expoense of our children.

A wise selfless man would have said...."Lets commit ONLY what we will need to spend over the next couple of months and see if we get out of this recession the natural way....you know...like we always do.

Instead he forced us to commit a trillion dollars to be spent through 2012...and signed it into law.

[harumph]

Oh I think most people are still fearful enough about losing their jobs that any stimulus money will be used to pay down debt or saved. Most people don't go on spending sprees when they are seeing their fellow workers being shown the door at alarming rates, at least in my experience.

But, of course, Obama and Congress are not most people.

[Centerist]

And just think of all the other disasters that Obama kept from happening by passing the pork-er, I mean- stimulus bill! 100% unemployment, complete stock market crash, businesses being able to run themselves, famine, pestilence, rise of the Anti-Christ, extinction level events and a myriad of other alternate-reality universes in which flowers are man's greatest enemy and pizza eats people!

BEHOLD HIS MIGHTY HAND!


George W. Bush has left the building.

[zantax]

But, of course, Obama and Congress are not most people.


Like I said, the only people I know not fearful of losing their jobs right now are government employees.

[Centerist]

So you agree...Obama created a no lose situation for himself...at the expoense of our children.

A wise selfless man would have said...."Lets commit ONLY what we will need to spend over the next couple of months and see if we get out of this recession the natural way....you know...like we always do.

Instead he forced us to commit a trillion dollars to be spent through 2012...and signed it into law.

That can't be proven and evades the issue.

[harumph]

And just think of all the other disasters that Obama kept from happening by passing the pork-er, I mean- stimulus bill! 100% unemployment, complete stock market crash, businesses being able to run themselves, famine, pestilence, rise of the Anti-Christ, extinction level events and a myriad of other alternate-reality universes in which flowers are man's greatest enemy and pizza eats people!

BEHOLD HIS MIGHTY HAND!

That was spaghetti, not pizza. Wasn't it?

[Centerist]

Like I said, the only people I know not fearful of losing their jobs right now are government employees.


In some states not even gov't workers are safe.

[Iggy]

That was spaghetti, not pizza. Wasn't it?

Either way, it was a close call.

[harumph]

Like I said, the only people I know not fearful of losing their jobs right now are government employees.

Aren't GM workers government employees, now?

[oldandtired]

That can't be proven and evades the issue.

ahhh...that is a defelection.

Nothing can be proven as it was set up so nothing can be proven...not saying intentionally...but the way it was set up is such that nothing can ever be proven.

Like I said..

A wise selfless man would have trickled in the money slowly so we CAN decide what is best.....especially seeing as the money is beuing used very slowly anyway.

[fava]

The problem is nobody knows how bad it could have gotten if the bill didn't pass....

Which I assume would be =< the Great Depression.

We do know because Obama gave us a graph. Unfortunately, the graph did not live up to the hype.

[zantax]

ahhh...that is a defelection.

Nothing can be proven as it was set up so nothing can be proven...not saying intentionally...but the way it was set up is such that nothing can ever be proven.

Like I said..

A wise selfless man would have trickled in the money slowly so we CAN decide what is best.....especially seeing as the money is beuing used very slowly anyway.

With any luck we can change congress in 2010 and repeal a goodly portion of that porkfest.

[harumph]

With any luck we can change congress in 2010 and repeal a goodly portion of that porkfest.

That goal is doable.

[Getty Girl]

And just think of all the other disasters that Obama kept from happening by passing the pork-er, I mean- stimulus bill! 100% unemployment, complete stock market crash, businesses being able to run themselves, famine, pestilence, rise of the Anti-Christ, extinction level events and a myriad of other alternate-reality universes in which flowers are man's greatest enemy and pizza eats people!

BEHOLD HIS MIGHTY HAND!
you forgot the rising water thingie......

[oldandtired]

That goal is doable.

Im on board.
So thats me, You and Zan......so far so good.

[jprin]

Exactly eight years ago, right wing media blamed the recession on a "negative press" and Bill Clinton. And the solution? Why, just say, "I'm not going to participate!" That's right - it was just a mindset, no matter the unemployment or the markets. So what's different now?

[NightTrain]

26 year high unemployment. Hows those job booming around you people? Is the Crystal Tower being built yet? Congrats to all that Voted for Obama. You get the Gold Star for Failure.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/05/biden-obama-announce-plan-ramp-stimulus-summer/


Congrats on the 25 year record, Barry Zer0...

U Da Man...

[oldandtired]

Exactly eight years ago, right wing media blamed the recession on a "negative press" and Bill Clinton. And the solution? Why, just say, "I'm not going to participate!" That's right - it was just a mindset, no matter the unemployment or the markets. So what's different now?

So are you saying consumer confidence does NOT play a role in a recession?

[homiebrah]

Inherited. Crisis. Inherited. Crisis. See the pattern brewing here?

[nature shot]

Im on board.
So thats me, You and Zan......so far so good.

ME TOO ME TOO Please don't forget me:angel:

[harumph]

Im on board.
So thats me, You and Zan......so far so good.

It's a start.

edit: Ok, Nature. That makes... let's see... four.

[oldandtired]

ME TOO ME TOO Please don't forget me:angel:

OK...OK...we have room for you as well.
You're in!

[oldandtired]

Inherited. Crisis. Inherited. Crisis. See the pattern brewing here?

Gee...I wonder why consumer confidence dropped.

Dont ya just love it when a leader leads with pessimism?

All he had to do was simply say...

"we are experiencing a recession that has been complicated by the credit meltdown, but we are resilient and we will rebound as we always have in the past. Do not lose faith in American goods and services, and be patient. Do not overspend but do not sacrificie necessities."

THAT is honesty and leadership.

Crisis..CRisis.CRisis is fear mongering used when one has an agenda.

[muhadeeb99]

That goal is doable.
Although this would not fit in 2010, I would submit an amendment.
One amendment would the abolishment of czars, where the congress would be the overseer and cheif scrutinizer of executive branch, checks and balances.

Another amendment would be a selective rollback of programs that are "porkie".

[harumph]

Although this would not fit in 2010, I would submit an amendment.
One amendment would the abolishment of czars, where the congress would be the overseer and cheif scrutinizer of executive branch, checks and balances.

Another amendment would be a selective rollback of programs that are "porkie".

We'd have to remove most of the Congress as is, to get this to work, as most do not see any of this as pork.

[hayzooz]

That's about as logical as a man beating his wife, breaking her bones, and somebody saying to her "Well, it could have been worse; he could have killed you."

Yea, that's analogous. /sarcasm

[hayzooz]

FDR????


LMAO....you really need to find out when the depression started.


Sarcasm detector broken?

[spinach]

the bottom line is that "porkulus maximus" is a huge failure.

much like the liberal maggots that crafted it.