water boarding vs. abortion

[USAF Medic]

Our pastor in the base Chapel on Sunday made an interesting point.
He was astounded how some people could be so against waterboarding, that has not killed one single person during interrogation, but at the same time support abortion, that has killed over 60 million unborn children to date.
I find the hypocrisy of the anti water boarders but pro-abortion camp to be beyond belief

[MrShotShot]

That's an interesting comparison.

I'm sure our friends on the left will be here momentarily to offer a half gajillion reasons as to why it's not an accurate comparison.

[angelicmadrigal]

Well when can tell me under what conditions waterboarding is medically necessary, I may think about this as being a valid argument.

[USAF Medic]

That's an interesting comparison.

I'm sure our friends on the left will be here momentarily to offer a half gajillion reasons as to why it's not an accurate comparison.

I'm sure you're right.
First reason being we are a nation of laws.
I question the wisdom, and even sane morality, of citizens that embraces the lawful killing of unborn children while trumpeting as unlawful making a would be terrorist mildy uncomfortable.

[USAF Medic]

Well when can tell me under what conditions waterboarding is medically necessary, I may think about this as being a valid argument.

Perhaps we can water board to medicaly save thousands from being injured or killed

[sgdp]

Just going to tell ya....

The crux of the abortion argument lies in whether or not the entity inside the woman is a human being...

I don't think you'll have a good go at it comparing the two.

[Alaric]

I'm sure our friends on the left will be here momentarily to offer a half gajillion reasons as to why it's not an accurate comparison.

Just going to tell ya....

The crux of the abortion argument lies in whether or not the entity inside the woman is a human being...

I don't think you'll have a good go at it comparing the two.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/darthtroy/nailedit.jpg

[sgdp]

^ What is that supposed to mean?

[Alaric]

Its a nail.

[slick_trip]

Our pastor in the base Chapel on Sunday made an interesting point.
He was astounded how some people could be so against waterboarding, that has not killed one single person during interrogation, but at the same time support abortion, that has killed over 60 million unborn children to date.
I find the hypocrisy of the anti water boarders but pro-abortion camp to be beyond belief

the state's actions incriminate us all - especially a republic where our officials are elected to act on our behalf. the individual's act only incriminates themselves.

the expectations of the state can and are different than the individual. that alone is how one can hold the opinion against waterboarding but for choice.

personally - i'm against waterboarding because we have already - as a nation - stated it's wrong. we are going against our own ideals....the 'morality' of torture aside.

[BrittleBullet]

I am pro-abortion and pro-waterboarding.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

I've told my wife many times that I'm so glad that we attend the church we attend. Not once has either minister raised hot button political issues. For this I am grateful.

[JimGP20]

I've told my wife many times that I'm so glad that we attend the church we attend. Not once has either minister raised hot button political issues. For this I am grateful.


Then your ministers are copping out. It is the duty of the Clergy to defend the sanctity of life.

[sgdp]

Its a nail.

Haha. I see it! :D

I couldn't figure out what the heck was in that photo, haha

[sgdp]

Then your ministers are copping out. It is the duty of the Clergy to defend the sanctity of life.

I know someone who attends a church that discusses that sort of thing. She says she is thinking about switching churches, because she goes to church to feel at peace, not to be reminded how cruel the world outside the stained glass is.

I can understand that.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

Then your ministers are copping out. It is the duty of the Clergy to defend the sanctity of life.

Yeah, they could turn our church into a political hot bed. I'm just glad they haven't.

[stoked]

Our pastor in the base Chapel on Sunday made an interesting point.
He was astounded how some people could be so against waterboarding, that has not killed one single person during interrogation, but at the same time support abortion, that has killed over 60 million unborn children to date.
I find the hypocrisy of the anti water boarders but pro-abortion camp to be beyond belief

I brought up this issue awhile back, the same people who fret about the waterboarding don't give a hoot about the babies. It's amazing.

[chip]

Well when can tell me under what conditions waterboarding is medically necessary, I may think about this as being a valid argument.

When you can prove all abortions are medically necessary............well....you know the rest.

[angelicmadrigal]

Perhaps we can water board to medicaly save thousands from being injured or killed

Not the same thing at all. Make a case for a direct medical link....see your scenario would require the plan be implemented effectively, and require some imminent proof that lives were in danger BEFORE the waterboarding to make it an equal scenario, but since you need waterboarding to get the proof, you can't really use that argument. With an abortion you can prove medical necessity PRIOR to the abortion.

[Talk2Bill]

Well when can tell me under what conditions waterboarding is medically necessary, I may think about this as being a valid argument.

most abortions are Not Medically necessary

[Talk2Bill]

the scary thing about abortion is how the pro-aborts have invented the idea that it is a right that can be enforced by the government and other regulatory agencies.

[ExDem]

Well when can tell me under what conditions waterboarding is medically necessary, I may think about this as being a valid argument.

Oh, please. Most abortions are for convenience, not because of a life-threatening condition.

[stoked]

How is this so called torture worse than aborture?

[JimGP20]

Yeah, they could turn our church into a political hot bed. I'm just glad they haven't.


Avoiding problems never get them solved.

[Rorus Raz]

I'm working on a way to waterboard fetuses so both sides can be outraged.

[angelicmadrigal]

Oh, please. Most abortions are for convenience, not because of a life-threatening condition.

Ah but if you outlaw unnessecary ones, what stops you from outlawing the medically necessary ones (because contrary to what you might believe they DO exist)?

[angelicmadrigal]

most abortions are Not Medically necessary

But some are, and there are those who would like to deny the medically necessary ones along with the medically unnecessary ones.

[NascarGirl2448]

I've told my wife many times that I'm so glad that we attend the church we attend. Not once has either minister raised hot button political issues. For this I am grateful.

Me too!!! The day my pastor starts talking politics is the day I know he's been abducted by aliens.

[USAF Medic]

Not the same thing at all. Make a case for a direct medical link....see your scenario would require the plan be implemented effectively, and require some imminent proof that lives were in danger BEFORE the waterboarding to make it an equal scenario, but since you need waterboarding to get the proof, you can't really use that argument. With an abortion you can prove medical necessity PRIOR to the abortion.

you're thinking it through too much.
It's a comparrison of the sancity of life and humane treatment of life.

[USAF Medic]

Me too!!! The day my pastor starts talking politics is the day I know he's been abducted by aliens.

when churches don't take a stand they don't stand for anything.

[USAF Medic]

I know someone who attends a church that discusses that sort of thing. She says she is thinking about switching churches, because she goes to church to feel at peace, not to be reminded how cruel the world outside the stained glass is.

I can understand that.

Church preaching is too lift us up and to CONVICT our us when needed.

[NascarGirl2448]

when churches don't take a stand they don't stand for anything.

Start preaching politics and you'll drive people away. The churches I have been the most irritated with are the ones that spewed politics from the pulpit. Churches want to spew politics, pay taxes.

[USAF Medic]

Start preaching politics and you'll drive people away. The churches I have been the most irritated with are the ones that spewed politics from the pulpit. Churches want to spew politics, pay taxes.

I'll take a church that preaches what is right over what makes people comfortable.
If you want to call that being politicol fine.
If you don't think a church should preach on a topic that might have a politicol root to it you are advocating for some mighty weak churches.
Lord knows we have enough of those as it is.

[angelicmadrigal]

you're thinking it through too much.
It's a comparrison of the sancity of life and humane treatment of life.

Oh god forbid I be accused of actually thinking. It's so horrible you know.

[NascarGirl2448]

I'll take a church that preaches what is right over what makes people comfortable.
If you want to call that being politicol fine.
If you don't think a church should preach on a topic that might have a politicol root to it you are advocating for some mighty weak churches.
Lord knows we have enough of those as it is.

All I know is that I have been in a church before where they don't care about anything BUT politics, and people have actually gotten up and walked out of the service because they were sick of it. If it makes a church "weak" to not talk about controversial issues, then the supposedly "strong" churches will collapse anyway, because a lot of people are getting irritated at preachers spewing their political opinions on Sunday morning.

[USAF Medic]

All I know is that I have been in a church before where they don't care about anything BUT politics, and people have actually gotten up and walked out of the service because they were sick of it. If it makes a church "weak" to not talk about controversial issues, then the supposedly "strong" churches will collapse anyway, because a lot of people are getting irritated at preachers spewing their political opinions on Sunday morning.

If there is a Biblicle basis for a politicol perspective then why not discuss it?
Those paritioners who walk out when the topic gets to tough for their sensibilities...well I question the depth of their faith and convictions

[Talk2Bill]

But some are, and there are those who would like to deny the medically necessary ones along with the medically unnecessary ones.

I am thinking those are rare exceptions to the rule that would allow them if deemed a medical need. 36ish weeks of discomfort embarrassment is not a medical reason.

[NascarGirl2448]

If there is a Biblicle basis for a politicol perspective then why not discuss it?

Because most people (that I know anyway) are sick and tired of politics from any source.

Those paritioners who walk out when the topic gets to tough for their sensibilities...well I question the depth of their faith and convictions

Could it be because they are sick and tired of everyone and his brother spewing their political opinions to captive audiences?

[Techgod]

I never attend any "church" or "religious" ceremonies where the goal is to talk **** about others.

If its not "here is where the poor are so we can help" then I run like enchiladas through my digestive track.

I can get political commentary and focused anger almost everywhere. I do not need church for it.

[angelicmadrigal]

I am thinking those are rare exceptions to the rule that would allow them if deemed a medical need. 36ish weeks of discomfort embarrassment is not a medical reason.

I don't think it's as rare as you think. I'd say if you're throwing up hard enough to hit your head against a toliet tank and end up with a skull fracture, that's more than just "discomfort".

Beleive it or not there are those people who think NO EXPECTIONS should be given.

[USMCmom]

I don't think it's as rare as you think. I'd say if you're throwing up hard enough to hit your head against a toliet tank and end up with a skull fracture, that's more than just "discomfort".

Beleive it or not there are those people who think NO EXPECTIONS should be given.

If you are 36 weeks and throwing up that hard...I have to assume most Dr's would do a c-section. Babies have survived as early as 22 weeks. That means that a Dr. could in theory perform a c-section as easliy as an abortion. Both are designed to remove the fetus without compromising the mother.

I found a poll on why women choose abortion and was shocked by how few were done due to "medical" complications!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States
Reasons for abortions

In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#cite_note-24) Another study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#cite_note-25)

25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby)
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child) will disrupt education (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education) or job (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment)
7.9% Want no (more) children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children)
3.3% Risk to fetal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal) health
2.8% Risk to maternal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal) health
2.1% Other
According to a 1987 study that included specific data about late abortions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_term_abortion) (i.e. abortions “at 16 or more weeks' gestation”),[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#cite_note-26) women reported that various reasons contributed to their having a late abortion:

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other
I agree that aborting a baby to save the mother should be legal, but to abort a child simply because a woman does not want to be bothered is not enough justification to abort a baby.

[biggles53]

you're thinking it through too much.
It's a comparrison of the sancity of life and humane treatment of life.

So, you're against capital punishment? Congratulations....

[stoked]

It's okay to suck a human out through a hose but it's not okay to put one underneath a hose. :wall: