Oklahoma Troopers Pull Over Ambulance On Way To Hospital

[RogerDodger]

I'm sure this will be viewed as "cop bashing" by some, but this really seems over the line.

Story with video link here:

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2009/05/oklahoma-state-patrol-tries-to-arrest.html

The paramedic's statment here:

http://static.ktul.com/documents/emtstatement_0509.pdf

Luckily for the patient being transported, it apparently was not a life or death situation.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Welcome to last week.

[obomanation]

When did this happen? Any updates?

How does an ambulance fail to yield?

[OldSchoolConservative]

The first thing that came to my mind was that the Oklahoma Highway Patrolman needs to be aware of the fact that the FEDERAL courts have established that giving a law enforcement officer "the bird" is protected free speech that the officer is powerless to legally stop. Unless of course common sense dictates that an individual is possibly starting a possible riot by giving "the bird". One could argue that the cop maybe felt that what he perceived as the bird gesture was part of the defiance in the EMT not pulling over. However, the gesture itself is not illegal per the federal courts which are a higher authority than what the Oklahoma Highway Patrolman operate under(i.e state laws). The only defense I can see for the patrolman is that from what I understand the ambulance did not have its lights on. However, that is a slippery slope because I actually thought it comical when the EMT had to remind the Highway Patrolman about the Oklahoma statute in reference to interfering with an emergency medical vehicle. The major overall problem though is that the patient's rights were ignored by the apparent ego trip of the law enforcement officers. The irony is that if the patient had hypothetically had a more serious condition and possibly died than the state of Oklahoma and those officers could have faced possible federal civil rights charges which would have cost the state a lot of money and possibly new members of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons. In fact IMHO I think the U.S. Attorney should charge these officers with abusing their authority under color of law because this was just uncall for and ridiculous. If the officers had a problem than solve it after the hospital.

[LouC]

In my opinion the troopers both should perhaps go through academy again as part of their punishment then through EMT training and spend a year at that position at a beginning EMT wage.

But that is just my opinion.

I don't think patrol officers should be allowed to outwardly exhibit road rage.

I know it happens but if you can't keep it in check you might want to switch jobs.

[jimjames418]

in my opinion the troopers both should perhaps go through academy again as part of their punishment then through emt training and spend a year at that position at a beginning emt wage.

But that is just my opinion.

I don't think patrol officers should be allowed to outwardly exhibit road rage.

I know it happens but if you can't keep it in check you might want to switch jobs.
+1

[Safiel]

Another contemptible dreg of humanity wearing a badge.

Officers who abuse their authority in ANY way should be aggressively prosecuted and prohibited from ever taking up another badge.

[OldSchoolConservative]

Another contemptible dreg of humanity wearing a badge.

Officers who abuse their authority in ANY way should be aggressively prosecuted and prohibited from ever taking up another badge.

I realize that the federal government is a sore subject on these forums but I think the feds should step in and prosecute since the civil rights of the patient were possibly being violated in the ego power struggle.

[RogerDodger]

I didn't realize there was another thread on this. Mods, please merge with existing thread.

Welcome to last week.

Insightful, as always. :rolleyes:

[jimjames418]

I hope and pray that the cops have a dash cam of the incident that will show them in a more favorable light. Absent that I believe they are grass, and the public will be the lawn mower.

[dave rogers]

In Alaska there is a very powerful union that toopers are bound to. It's a real problem that needs to be addressed by some legal authority that can force a change in the system. Troopers up here are untouchable. And they know it.

[jimjames418]

In Alaska there is a very powerful union that toopers are bound to. It's a real problem that needs to be addressed by some legal authority that can force a change in the system. Troopers up here are untouchable. And they know it.
The final word in disciplinary actions involving police officers is not had by the chief of police, the mayor, or a civilian review board, but by an arbitrator. Using binding arbitration as a means of resolving disputes over attempts to fire or suspend sworn officers is very common.

To get a feel for how a police department takes disciplinary action, you must look at the final outcomes of the process. What a police chief or review board may order and what an arbitrator may ultimately decide can be very different.

[jimjames418]

Police Quarterly, Vol. 5, No. 2, 132-151 (2002) (http://pqx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/5/2/132)

In many cities, police discipline is subject to final adjudication through binding arbitration. Police agencies' intensive internal reviews of disciplinary actions suggest that arbitrations would likely uphold management most times. Instead, prior research showed that in Chicago, arbitrators "split the baby," with net reductions of discipline of almost exactly 50%. This research examines all arbitrations of sworn officers'discipline in Houston during a 5-year span (1994-1998). The findings are similar to those observed in Chicago: Arbitrators reduce discipline by approximately 50%. This was observed for discharge cases and temporary suspensions (15 days or less). The implications of this pattern are discussed.

[traditional_woman]

Unbeliavable! Glad they had a camera, nobody would have believed it otherwise. I know I wouldn't have.

''What, you mean patrol tries to arrest EMT's for failure to pull over, and b/c he mistakingly 'thought' the EMT flipped him off"? "Yeaaa, rigght".

[gdoane]

In my opinion the troopers both should perhaps go through academy again as part of their punishment then through EMT training and spend a year at that position at a beginning EMT wage.

But that is just my opinion.

I don't think patrol officers should be allowed to outwardly exhibit road rage.

I know it happens but if you can't keep it in check you might want to switch jobs.

Any man puts his hand on the throat of another man is trying to kill. I don't care if he's wearing a badge or not, that's attempted murder. The only reason to go for the throat is to kill. It's not a submission hold, it's not a place to put handcuffs, it's lethal force.

If lethal force isn't warranted then the charge is attempted murder.

The ambulance driver was in the wrong. If a cop says "you're under arrest" that's end of story. Put out your hands and surrender yourself. Court is the place to fight and win. You can't find justice on the street.

The choke hold is a firing offense. That's criminal assault, excessive force. The ambulance driver was resisting arrest, a crime on his part. For committing a crime while on the clock, I'd say fire him too.

What we have here is a situation where everybody thought they were above the law and nobody is. Wrong was done on all sides and punishment should be meted out to all sides.

[DRS]

The chief suspended the officer the cam in the patrol car was used by the police to render the decision

[FidelisAdMortem]

Ambulance did not have its lights/sirens on.

Patient was being transported for heatstroke.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

What I want to know is why they were pulled in the first place, and why --- when seeing they were transporting a patient --- the cops didn't step aside and allow the ambulance to continue on their way.

I don't care what happened with the paramedics after the stop... they never should have been detained in the first place.


Assistant District Attorney Maxey Reilly said Friday it may be next week before she decides what charges, if any, will be filed. She did note, though, that the interference with paramedics in the performance of their duties is against the law in Oklahoma.

But Reilly would not say if the troopers would be charged with that violation.

[samurai7]

Since when does an ambulence with it's lights flashing have to yeild with a patient in the back going to the hospital.

The cops are lucky that wasn't a life and death situation. It could have been.

These cops need to lose their job.

:rolleyes:

[samurai7]

Witness statement:

On Sunday, May 24th, 2009, my cousin and I were coming back from the Paden Cemetery and came to Main Street. Before we got to the stop sign at 62 highway and Main Street, we saw an ambulance pass and as we got to the stop sign, we say a highway patrol pass. We turned on highway 62 going west and we saw the ambulance pulled over in front of the bank and the patrol car behind it. The officer was standing in our lane of 62 highway talking to the driver and we could not pass since they were in our lane. The other EMT was in the ambulance with the patient. He opened the door and was trying to talk to the officer. The officer then came around the ambulance shouting, "I'll arrest you for obstruction of justice", and the EMT stated, "Hey Man, we need to get her to the hospital, follow us there." By this time the lady in the ambulance family were running to see about her, and the husband was pleading with the officer to get his wife to the hospital. The officer would not pay attention to them. He, the officer kept yelling at the EMT that he was going to arrest him and then the officer pushed the EMT against the ambulance and was going to handcuff him. The EMT Never tried to strike the patrolman, he kept his hands up as if protecting his face. Then the patrolman got the EMT in a head lock. We were horrified by the patrolman's behavior. He have NO thought to the poor woman in the ambulance or her family. As the patrolman was trying to handcuff the EMT, another highway patrolman came up and began to try to calm the situation down and in our opinion the first highway patrolman acted very unprofessionally. The EMT's were trying to do their jobs, and he was keeping them from getting that poor lady to the hospital. He was flat rude and hateful to the family. We felt both EMTs tried very hard to remain professional and wanted their patient to be cared for. That first highway patrolman should be ashamed of himself. The time wasted on his actions could have been the time that meant life or death for that lady. In our eyes, the EMTs did nothing wrong and were treated very badly. He should have to publicly apologize especially to the lady and the family as well as the EMTs who were only trying to do their jobs.


http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWS9/PDF/0905/witnessletter.pdf

I just noticed the name of the witness of who made this statement!

The LAST NAME OF THE WITNESS IS THE LAST NAME OF FAMILY I HAVE IN OK!!!!!!! :eek:

I have to call my sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

I bet she knows the witness!

EMT statement: http://static.ktul.com/documents/emtstatement_0509.pdf

And Ambulence driver statement: http://static.ktul.com/documents/franksstatement_0509.pdf

It looks to me like the evidence is against the cops.

[gdoane]

Ambulance did not have its lights/sirens on.

Patient was being transported for heatstroke.

Running Code 3 isn't always a good idea. Hospitals are declared a quiet zone, after all. I think we can safely assume that the ambulance was heading to a hospital.

I live in Arizona. Heatstroke is a real stroke. It's brain being damaged. It is absolutely a medical emergency.

Cops know where the hospital is and where the ambulance was going. Why even bother stopping the perp? Is getting the license plate number a lost art?

[samurai7]

Running Code 3 isn't always a good idea. Hospitals are declared a quiet zone, after all. I think we can safely assume that the ambulance was heading to a hospital.

I live in Arizona. Heatstroke is a real stroke. It's brain being damaged. It is absolutely a medical emergency.

Cops know where the hospital is and where the ambulance was going. Why even bother stopping the perp? Is getting the license plate number a lost art?

In the 1980s I worked for a 3rd insurance company. As part of my job, they had us go through EMT training. It was a quick and inexpensive way to get up to speed on medical terminolgy without actually having to become a doctor.

You DO NOT use lights and sirens in every situation. Heart attack being another glaring example. The last thing you want is to panic the patient. It is absolutely imperitive the patient remain calm.

[RogerDodger]

Patient was being transported for heatstroke.

Yeah, nothing serious about that.

[RogerDodger]

The ambulance driver was in the wrong.

That's one thing I didn't understand. I thought the paramedic who drew the officer's ire was the one in the back with the patient. I thought the driver was the one you can see walking to the front of the ambulance with the other trooper.

[mgifford]

It's funny to me how when the news stories about "crooked politicians" begin to dwindle down, the trashers and bashers start looking at the news media to find stories about cops to rail on. of course next week it will be preachers. Then the dirty clammering will start all over again. Next time you bashers have someone who has molested your family or is trying to kill you, call a cab driver, or a plumber. It's getting old!

[FidelisAdMortem]

Since when does an ambulence with it's lights flashing have to yeild with a patient in the back going to the hospital.

The cops are lucky that wasn't a life and death situation. It could have been.

These cops need to lose their job.

:rolleyes:

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=55294611&postcount=17

[DRS]

It's funny to me how when the news stories about "crooked politicians" begin to dwindle down, the trashers and bashers start looking at the news media to find stories about cops to rail on. of course next week it will be preachers. Then the dirty clammering will start all over again. Next time you bashers have someone who has molested your family or is trying to kill you, call a cab driver, or a plumber. It's getting old!

Are you trying to say politician are above curruption or that police do not abuse their authority or that preachers do not betray trusts?

You ever think these things are news because they are not suppose to happen?

[mgifford]

Are you trying to say politician are above curruption or that police do not abuse their authority or that preachers do not betray trusts?

You ever think these things are news because they are not suppose to happen?

No, I'm saying that whatever you say I'm in agreement with.

[samurai7]

http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=55294611&postcount=17

Did you READ what we said about that?

A) A Heat stroke IS A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION.

B) Paramedics don't always transport with lights and sirens on.

:rolleyes:

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Yeah, nothing serious about that.

Bottom line? The paramedics (in consultation with ED) had determined this person needed transport to the ED for further evaluation and treatment. The 'heatstroke' may have been a preliminary diagnosis, may have been the final diagnosis, but symptoms of heat exhaustion/heatstroke can mimic other conditions and exacerbate them as well. It's especially dangerous in the elderly who often have co-morbidities.

[samurai7]

It's funny to me how when the news stories about "crooked politicians" begin to dwindle down, the trashers and bashers start looking at the news media to find stories about cops to rail on. of course next week it will be preachers. Then the dirty clammering will start all over again. Next time you bashers have someone who has molested your family or is trying to kill you, call a cab driver, or a plumber. It's getting old!

What's funny to me is that someone thinks there's a conspiracy in the simple fact that there is more than one forum on this "forum."

I don't see any let up in the talk on WP. But it's somehow proof we will bash anything if we also talk about GI topics?

It's getting old all right. Give me a break! :rolleyes:

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Did you READ what we said about that?

A) A Heat stroke IS A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION.

B) Paramedics don't always transport with lights and sirens on.

:rolleyes:

True on both accounts.

And regardless, once again, it doesn't matter what her eventual diagnosis was, the paramedics had determined she was in need of emergency care. End of story.

[mgifford]

What's funny to me is that someone thinks there's a conspiracy in the simple fact that there is more than one forum on this "forum."

I don't see any let up in the talk on WP. But it's somehow proof we will bash anything if we also talk about GI topics?

It's getting old all right. Give me a break! :rolleyes:

My grand mother raised me and she was a woman who believed in the "Golden Rule". If someone came to her and wanted to badmouth someone, she quickly put them on the road. I in turn have tried to raise my kids the same way.

She would give anyone who came to her with gossip the "third degree". Who told you that? How do you know its true, and take your gossip somewhere else. She also raised my mother, who is 85 years old.

I suppose it makes people feel better about themselves if they can cut others down, huh? However, I spent a lot of years policing and caring for the citizens, as well as many other cops have. I spent my time in the Military too, so that's no different to me.

[OldSchoolConservative]

True on both accounts.

And regardless, once again, it doesn't matter what her eventual diagnosis was, the paramedics had determined she was in need of emergency care. End of story.

Exactly. And in a hypothetical scenario if a patient were to have died in a situation like this the ramifications for the officers and the state would possibly be a huge lawsuit and possible prison time for the officers. Again the EMT did the smart thing by reminding that officer what the Oklahoma statute was concerning impeding an EMT performing his duties.