PLEASE, help with legal advice on hospital not releasing minor

[Rupperov91]

Anybody with any legal expertise on the subject please help me out.

Our 15 year old daughter has had issues with depression. She has been extremely stubborn and rebellious recently and thoughts of hurting herself and has made littlecuts on her arms with pencils etc.. She had a therapy session and the doctor suggested she go to the hospital for evaluation. They sent her to U of M childrens psych hospital for a complete evaluation and they wanted her to stay. She was there for 2 weeks and learned some coping skills, developed and emergency plan in the event she tried to hurt herself and had daily therapy sessions. She was released after the two weeks and my wife enrolled her at a facility for out patient therapy (state owned Uuuugh). Its called Havenwych in Auburn Hills MI and owned by Psychiatric Solutions Inc. Upon her first therapy session she told the therapist everything she told them at U of M and they immediately called my wife and said she is suicidal "and we really hope you don't take her home". My wife left work and went to see Jordan and the therapist. They would not let my wife see our daughter til she signed highlighted portions of documents. My wife just wanted to see Jordan. Jordan intimated that they watch her go to the bathroom, shower, and everything. She a beautiful 15 year old kid that is physically mature beyond her years and she feels very uncomfortable with the staff watching her and patients because there are alot of substance abuse patients. My kid has emotional/mental issues. They have not given her the medication she was prescribed at UM, did not give her the clothes we dropped off. She slept in the clothes she wore when she went in for out patient therapy. They have not let her do homework provided by our school. We are not happy. The facility will not release her beacuse they deemed her a threat to herself. U of M just released her a day fricking earlier because she took the steps needed to deal with her issues. All she did was be honest about the thoughts she's had in the past and issues she has now. I'm about damn near ready to handle this my way. They say she won't be released unless a doctor says so or a court order telling them to do so.

Are there any legal ways to get my kid. Now.

[JenyEliza]

Call a LAWYER NOW. Don't post here. Get help and get her out of there.

NOW.

[Hadassah]

Yes, what Jeny said. Call a lawyer NOW!!!!!

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

They say she won't be released unless a doctor says so or a court order telling them to do so.


Contact a lawyer. I pm'd you.

[rhet 2]

Ditto the lawyer.

And I'm praying for some MAJOR divine intervention to secure a family against massive state disruption and destructionism! Let there be JUSTICE and MERCY, truth and honor.

And to reach out and give your daughter the Peace she needs to accept herself, understand and correct her flaws, and love her true potentialities, talents, skills, and abilities. To see herself as Christ sees her: the greatest treasure that exists in this insane world of ours.

[stoked]

Can you get a 'doctor says so' from U of M to release her?

[doodle5]

Call another Hospital Hot line!!

1. First talk to present doctor, they do not like conflict of interest.
2. Know your rights, consult an attorney.
3. One step at a time.

Carlene

[CMike11]

Maybe they are right. That's the most important question.

I understand form the institution's point of view, if they release her and she commits suicide who is at fault?

Speak to the doctor and get more information.

[Seanachie]

Darn good advice about getting an Attorney.

Another avenue worth approaching is to get a Court to approve and appoint a Guardian Ad Litem. This Attorney will represent ONLY your Child's interests. There are conflicting interests where the Hospital, Parents are concerned as to the Health and well being of the Child and the legal aspects. You can check with your local Bar Association to find Guardian Ad Litem Attorneys who have specialty backgrounds in the handling of these types of situations and cases.

DO NOT leave this in the hands of the Hospital. They also have conflicting interests. Contact your local Mental Health Association to see if there is any way they will assist you.

The needs and the 'best interests' of the Child are always Paramount in these types of situations. There are Pros who deal with this on a daily basis. Don't be afraid to seek help. That simple phrase 'please help me' will open doors you might otherwise think are closed to you. The same would apply to the legal profession and even filing your own Pro Se (representing yourself) petition with the Court. Asking a Superior Court Judge to appoint a Guardian Attorney representing your Child's interests will usually be met with compassion and the help you need in filing such a petition.

In short; BEAT DOWN every door you have to in helping your Daughter to get the help She needs.

Every State has some type of Law on the books which allows for 'temporary' types of commitments. Anything beyond 72 hours usually requires the filing of petitions with the Court to 'require' further 'involuntary' commitment. The Hospital can do this along with their attending physician. You're in for a 'crash course' of these legal logistical aspects if they choose to do so.

If it does wind up in Court, (verbally if you have to), petition the Court for the Guardian Ad Litem.

This is an expensive proposition and only you know where you stand on that issue. Resorting to 'self-help' to 'take' your Daughter back may just land you in the hoosegow. This would simply amplify an already tough situation and the Court could see fit to restrain you from any further action. ****ing off a Court and its Judge will get you nothing but more heartache or worse.

Please seek Legal help by any means you can find. If all else fails, file your own petition. Most Courts' are sympathetic when they are petitioned reasonably.

You, Your Daughter and your entire Family are in my prayers to the Good Lord that he send you all the help you will need in this situation.

Try to be well,

Jim

[bella-day]

Rupp,
You need to consult an attorney to find out exactly what can be done to help your daughter.

My prayers are with you and your family.

[Seanachie]

Here are a couple of links for Guardian Ad Litems;

GUIDELINES FOR ADVOCATES FOR CHILDREN
IN MICHIGAN COURTS

http://www.rollanet.org/~childlaw/galstd/mi-intro.htm

This second link is from MI Courts for an ORDER appointing a guardian.

http://courts.michigan.gov/SCAO/courtforms/juvenile/jc03.pdf

You can google this term or choose another term such as MI Child advocacy law.

I hope this may help. I'm sure you have the abilities to do the further research in more specific terms. If ya need any help; just give a shout.

Jim

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

If they believe she is suicidal, then they are allowed by law to hold her for 72 hours. I find it rather odd that the other facility felt her safe to leave and this one doesn't. That alone should be enough to raise red flags, so an attorney to help you cut through all of this is a good idea.

Another thing to consider is that she may be telling them things she is reluctant to tell you and your wife; that happened with my oldest when she was a teen. There could be subtle clues the therapist is seeing that your daughter doesn't even realize she's putting out there. As frustrating as this can be at least they're playing it safe. I do hope this is quickly resolved.

[jwil59]

I agree, get yourself a lawyer

I am praying for your daughter bro.

[stoked]

Hang in there Rupp. And keep your cool. I know this is a rough time for you.

[Rupperov91]

Spoke to a lawyer and yes Emma is right, they can hold for 72 hours at which point if they deem her a danger she can be held. The court would then decide if she can go home if the guardians disagree with the eval.

We met with the psychiatrist (2nd one) yesterday. Not to get my business out for all to see but Jordan is where she needs to be. Erika and I both agree. When the initial interview with Jordan was read to us aloud and verbatim from Jordan's mouth, it was obvious why she was held. Jordan had a look on her face where she knew she was exposed in a way. Jordan thought Erika and Paul were going to save the day and get her out but the psychiatrist would not release her. And she shouldn't have. She said she has some well hidden and deep anger and severe depression issues that have turned dangerous. Based on her initial interview she should have and was right to be put on acute suicide watch. When Jordan found out she was going home it got real ugly. The words that came out of her mouth to wards the psychiatrist, Erika, and I, were shocking. I've never seen the girl that way. It was scary. 2 years ago she was a different person, the most conservative, shy, A/B student, almost dorky cute little girl you good ever want to see. She was adorable and you just wanted to hug her to death. Now at times we don't recognize her. In a nutshell this all goes back to her biological father walking out of her life at 6 and mom carrying guilt and giving her every single thing she EVER wanted and "no" was never an option from moms mouth when it came to Jordan. It was mom's way of making it right. Now, when Jordan is being told "no" by mom since we've been separated because I'm not the one there to counterbalance all the "yea's" it turns UGLY. Obviously there is a long road ahead for Jordan to getting better and I have serious doubts especially Erika's ability to deal with it while battling her own depression issues. So please pray for the both of them. I've asked in the past and all of you have been great. Thank you for the advice and I will be forever grateful.:pray:

[JenyEliza]

Rup...

You all have my prayers. I have 14 year old boy/girl twins and I am divorced from their father since they were babies.

It's *really* easy to give in and let them have everything they want. The guilt is (at times) overwhelming.

There's something about these miserable middle school years that changes them--they get moody, mouthy and difficult.

I will hold you and your family up in prayer. God bless your daughter, she needs you and her Mom now more than ever. Please, please, make sure you stay in her life. You *are* her dad. Not the man who walked away when she was 6.

She needs you. She is crying out for help--she wants you and her mom together, whether she says it verbally or not. She knows you are the counter-balance. She doesn't WANT to get away with murder, she wants someone around who will tell her NO. You.

How do I know this? My own daughter tells me all the time that she's glad I will tell her NO--even when she wants something badly and thinks she knows better than I.

Keep on loving that little girl. She loves her Daddy--even if she's acting like a pea-soup spewing hellion towards you. Teenaged girls are weird critters. I was once one myself. ;)

Praying hard for all of you! :pray:

Jen

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

Many many many prayers, Rup.

As a step-parent and a step-child, I know all too well what you are going through.

My only advice is be prepared to accept the hate and turn the other cheek. Her biological father is not there for her to hate, but you are.

If you want someone to talk to one on one, feel free to PM me and I will give you my phone number.

[jwil59]

Spoke to a lawyer and yes Emma is right, they can hold for 72 hours at which point if they deem her a danger she can be held. The court would then decide if she can go home if the guardians disagree with the eval.

We met with the psychiatrist (2nd one) yesterday. Not to get my business out for all to see but Jordan is where she needs to be. Erika and I both agree. When the initial interview with Jordan was read to us aloud and verbatim from Jordan's mouth, it was obvious why she was held. Jordan had a look on her face where she knew she was exposed in a way. Jordan thought Erika and Paul were going to save the day and get her out but the psychiatrist would not release her. And she shouldn't have. She said she has some well hidden and deep anger and severe depression issues that have turned dangerous. Based on her initial interview she should have and was right to be put on acute suicide watch. When Jordan found out she was going home it got real ugly. The words that came out of her mouth to wards the psychiatrist, Erika, and I, were shocking. I've never seen the girl that way. It was scary. 2 years ago she was a different person, the most conservative, shy, A/B student, almost dorky cute little girl you good ever want to see. She was adorable and you just wanted to hug her to death. Now at times we don't recognize her. In a nutshell this all goes back to her biological father walking out of her life at 6 and mom carrying guilt and giving her every single thing she EVER wanted and "no" was never an option from moms mouth when it came to Jordan. It was mom's way of making it right. Now, when Jordan is being told "no" by mom since we've been separated because I'm not the one there to counterbalance all the "yea's" it turns UGLY. Obviously there is a long road ahead for Jordan to getting better and I have serious doubts especially Erika's ability to deal with it while battling her own depression issues. So please pray for the both of them. I've asked in the past and all of you have been great. Thank you for the advice and I will be forever grateful.:pray:

They are both in my prayer buddy. hang tough man

[Rupperov91]

Thanks all for the advice. Makes me realize Jordan will not understand or appreciate any of this until she a mature adult. But she'll "get it". It just takes time. Thanks again to everyone.

[bella-day]

Many many many prayers, Rup.

As a step-parent and a step-child, I know all too well what you are going through.

My only advice is be prepared to accept the hate and turn the other cheek. Her biological father is not there for her to hate, but you are.

If you want someone to talk to one on one, feel free to PM me and I will give you my phone number.


Hoobee,
I'm so glad you started posting her in the OO.

It's given me an opportunity to get to know the man behind the really scary avies and the tongue in cheek posts that are so hard to peg at times. You sir, are a good man with a big heart.

Rupp,
There isn't much you and I agree on politically speaking but I do feel that we are just one big (albeit disfunctional) family here on this website...especially those of us that have managed to hang around for years.

You and your family will be in my prayers. May God shine the warm light of his love and compassion on each and everyone of you.

[Hoobeedoo Bejesus]

Hoobee,
I'm so glad you started posting her in the OO.

It's given me an opportunity to get to know the man behind the really scary avies and the tongue in cheek posts that are so hard to peg at times. You sir, are a good man with a big heart.

Rupp,
There isn't much you and I agree on politically speaking but I do feel that we are just one big (albeit disfunctional) family here on this website...especially those of us that have managed to hang around for years.

You and your family will be in my prayers. May God shine the warm light of his love and compassion on each and everyone of you.

Thanks, bella-day. That means a lot to me.

I'm really a big softie in real life and would gladly give anyone in need the shirt off my back.

OO is a real special place. It is a shining beacon of humanity tucked away in a land of strife and opposition. It is quite humbling to see people who will argue tooth and nail bare themselves and ask for assistance. It's the least I can do to oblige them.

[Rupperov91]

Hoobee,
I'm so glad you started posting her in the OO.

It's given me an opportunity to get to know the man behind the really scary avies and the tongue in cheek posts that are so hard to peg at times. You sir, are a good man with a big heart.

Rupp,
There isn't much you and I agree on politically speaking but I do feel that we are just one big (albeit disfunctional) family here on this website...especially those of us that have managed to hang around for years.

You and your family will be in my prayers. May God shine the warm light of his love and compassion on each and everyone of you.

Thanks Bella. Yeah I agree on one big family analogy. Thats why my profile says you'd like me alot better if we didn't meet here. LOL.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Thanks all for the advice. Makes me realize Jordan will not understand or appreciate any of this until she a mature adult. But she'll "get it". It just takes time. Thanks again to everyone.
You're right. She won't. She's going to say and do some very hurtful things toward you and her mom. Just don't take it personally. She's going to come out on the other side just fine.

Obviously there is a long road ahead for Jordan to getting better and I have serious doubts especially Erika's ability to deal with it while battling her own depression issues.

Take it from someone who's been there... please strongly encourage her to get some therapy too. If need be, make her get help. I have a feeling I know her mindset... she's focused on her daughter, and not thinking of herself. She feels she can deal with it but trust me, she can't. It's ok to be selfish, and she needs to be just a bit and get into some therapy as well. If nothing else, remind her she certainly can't care for her daughter if she can't care for herself.