Hasselbeck slapped around like a ragdoll by "The Body"...

[LoneStarHero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cyigU2bsV0

Score one for Jesse Ventura!

Don't call this guy a "lib" either. At the moment the pimping of his latest book is prominently displayed on the main Hannity page!

[Getty Girl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cyigU2bsV0

Score one for Jesse Ventura!

Don't call this guy a "lib" either. At the moment the pimping of his latest book is prominently displayed on the main Hannity page!


'slapped around'...?
nice.
:rolleyes:

[PredFan]

Please!

Al Mr. Venture does is shout over his opponents.

He's a libertarian so i agree with a lot of the things he says but he's wrong on many points too. I watched him on Hannity and all he did was shout over Sean when he was trying to make a point.

As much as I always liked Jesse, I'm not impressed.

[LoneStarHero]

Please!

Al Mr. Venture does is shout over his opponents.

He's a libertarian so i agree with a lot of the things he says but he's wrong on many points too. I watched him on Hannity and all he did was shout over Sean when he was trying to make a point.

As much as I always liked Jesse, I'm not impressed.

Yup, he does it better than Hannity.

Perhaps we have a #2 radio talk show host in the making :)

[notluzn]

I see a Blonde woman kicking his ass with facts and he hates it. Why else does he get mad.

[ImNewHere]

I see a Blonde woman kicking his ass with facts and he hates it. Why else does he get mad.

Sorry, dude. Lizzie got worked over. She's smokin' hot, but she lost that round.

[notluzn]

He needs to learn the facts. Besides he doesn't know ****.

[PaleoPaul]

I'm telling you GOP...you don't embrace libertarians or by the least libertarian ideals...and you'll be a minority till I'm in my middle age.

[PredFan]

I'm telling you GOP...you don't embrace libertarians or by the least libertarian ideals...and you'll be a minority till I'm in my middle age.

You mean a minority like the Libertarians?

Yeah, there's a sparkling endorsement.

[ImNewHere]

He needs to learn the facts. Besides he doesn't know ****.

I'm not sure what you're basing that post on. He was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam. He's also been a governor. He knows warfare, toture and politics. What part of his argument shows he does not know facts or ****?

[Getty Girl]

You mean a minority like the Libertarians?

Yeah, there's a sparkling endorsement.

:clap:

[notluzn]

I'm not sure what you're basing that post on. He was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam. He's also been a governor. He knows warfare, toture and politics. What part of his argument shows he does not know facts or ****? I still think Jesse was invited on the View so that there could be 5 women talking about things. :mrgreen:

[ImNewHere]

I still think Jesse was invited on the View so that there could be 5 women talking about things. :mrgreen:

Refute one part of his argument. I understand your take because I use the same M.O. sometimes. But point out where Ventura is wrong or doesn't know what he's talking about.

[PredFan]

Refute one part of his argument. I understand your take because I use the same M.O. sometimes. But point out where Ventura is wrong or doesn't know what he's talking about.

When he claimed on Sean's show that the economic mess is entirely Bush's fault.

[LoneStarHero]

When he claimed on Sean's show that the economic mess is entirely Bush's fault.

Where the hell is it Obama's fault? It was in full swing before he took office.

I can admit that despite the fact that I think Obama's reaction to the economic crisis is wrong.

[PredFan]

Where the hell is it Obama's fault? It was in full swing before he took office.

I can admit that despite the fact that I think Obama's reaction to the economic crisis is wrong.

It's not one person's fault.

That's the point. Ventura is dead wrong.

Obama is certainly making things much worse.

[Groundhog]

I'll take Ventura seriously when he stops contemplating if our government was responsible for orchestrating 9/11.

[LoneStarHero]

I'll take Ventura seriously when he stops contemplating if our government was responsible for orchestrating 9/11.


Why is Sean pimping the guy's book on the website?

[notluzn]

Why is Sean pimping the guy's book on the website?
I was just goping to post about this...

[ImNewHere]

When he claimed on Sean's show that the economic mess is entirely Bush's fault.

Apparently, you didn't read the OP or watch the video. I'll post the video link one more time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Tell me the time where he mentions Sean's show, the economic mess or George Bush. If you can't find it and show me where Ventura mentions any of that, then you're deflecting and trying to change the subject.

Tell me how Hasselbeck pwns Ventura in that video.

[Samm]

Sorry, dude. Lizzie got worked over. She's smokin' hot, but she lost that round.

I agree with very little that he said, but he did win the debate on points. His "Bush lied" routine is getting a bit old though...


Behar on the other hand, with here "waterborading was done to produce a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda" conspiracy theory is just plane wacko.


It was interesting to note, however, all of them agreed that Pelosi is lying... :think:

[PredFan]

Apparently, you didn't read the OP or watch the video. I'll post the video link one more time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Tell me the time where he mentions Sean's show, the economic mess or George Bush. If you can't find it and show me where Ventura mentions any of that, then you're deflecting and trying to change the subject.

Tell me how Hasselbeck pwns Ventura in that video.

Ventura said that on Sean's show. I did not see the one in the OP. I was talking about something else.

[terri910]

<snipped just in case>

Perhaps we have a #2 radio talk show host in the making :)
LoneStar....I think your post might be close to COH.

It isn't really germane to the subject of the thread....perhaps you should delete it?

[grapabeaux]

Refute one part of his argument. I understand your take because I use the same M.O. sometimes. But point out where Ventura is wrong or doesn't know what he's talking about.

The part where he says "waterboarding is torture". This is a factual misstatement of the law. His personal experience with it in training doesn't change the status of it as an interrogation device.

Nor does the rarity that it is used say anything about whether it's illegal or not.

[ImNewHere]

The part where he says "waterboarding is torture". This is a factual misstatement of the law. His personal experience with it in training doesn't change the status of it as an interrogation device.

Nor does the rarity that it is used say anything about whether it's illegal or not.

If it's not torture and an effective interrogation device, then why don't we use it on our own criminals?

[notluzn]

If it's not torture and an effective interrogation device, then why don't we use it on our own criminals?When are terrorist considered American Citizens? Do you even know anything about what took place and who it was used on? I'm guessing you think we used it on everyone of them and every terrorist we catch. Under NO letter of the US Law, are terrorist under our laws.

When we get hit again, don't cry about it if you see the terrorist as our buddies.

[ImNewHere]

When are terrorist considered American Citizens? Do you even know anything about what took place and who it was used on? I'm guessing you think we used it on everyone of them and every terrorist we catch. Under NO letter of the US Law, are terrorist under our laws.

When we get hit again, don't cry about it if you see the terrorist as our buddies.

Nope. You miss the point.

If it's not torture, then why don't we use it on American citizens under arrest?

Why wasn't Timothy McVeigh warterboarded if he was the worst domestic terrorist at the time? Do we waterboard people that are caught here? Did we waterboard the shoe bomber?

Ventura made a really great argument on that video that neither Lizzy or anyone else has been able to refute.

[ImNewHere]

When we get hit again, don't cry about it if you see the terrorist as our buddies.

And one more thing. If (and actually, when) we get hit again, it won't be because we have or have not waterboarded potential terrorists.

It's because Obama AND Bush have not done what they needed to do in order to secure our borders.

[ImNewHere]

Ventura said that on Sean's show. I did not see the one in the OP. I was talking about something else.

Fair enough. Then I'll wait for that opinion in another thread.

[notluzn]

:)) :)) :)) I never miss the point. McVeigh is dead if you didn't hear. The people that got water boarded are alive and have it nicer than any of our prisoners here in the United States. They also have it nicer than our Soldiers in Afghanistan. These terrorist have no right to even be alive and should have had Arm ripped off at the time of captured.

I don't know if you think that I don't know anyone in the inside of all of this so you would be wrong. 2 Friends are serving at Gitmo and 15 in Afghanistan and 8 in Iraq, Family at the Pentigon as well. Things are not told to the Public because it's a security risk.

Prisoners in the United States arn't the ones taking out buildings. What are you going to get out of a person that robbed someone? :)) :)) Your point is pointless as much as Jesse the messed up hair Ventura Nope. You miss the point.

If it's not torture, then why don't we use it on American citizens under arrest?

Why wasn't Timothy McVeigh warterboarded if he was the worst domestic terrorist at the time? Do we waterboard people that are caught here? Did we waterboard the shoe bomber?

Ventura made a really great argument on that video that neither Lizzy or anyone else has been able to refute.

[ImNewHere]

:)) :)) :)) I never miss the point. McVeigh is dead if you didn't hear.

Yes, executed in Terre Haute. But the point was if he was waterboarded for information before his execution, could he have exposed any more terrorists he was working with?

One guy with a truckload of fertilizer. And not that smart of a guy because he got caught. If waterboarding isn't torture, then we should have used it on him to find out who sent him there.

The people that got water boarded are alive and have it nicer than any of our prisoners here in the United States. They also have it nicer than our Soldiers in Afghanistan. These terrorist have no right to even be alive and should have had Arm ripped off at the time of captured.

Then we should provide that same service to people suspected of crimes here in the US. Why are we treating them better?

I don't know if you think that I don't know anyone in the inside of all of this so you would be wrong. 2 Friends are serving at Gitmo and 15 in Afghanistan and 8 in Iraq, Family at the Pentigon as well. Things are not told to the Public because it's a security risk.

You got me. I can't name one that is serving in any of those places. But knowing someone doesn't explain why we can waterboard some criminals, but not others.

Prisoners in the United States arn't the ones taking out buildings. What are you going to get out of a person that robbed someone? :)) :)) Your point is pointless as much as Jesse the messed up hair Ventura

So McVeigh just went in there for coffee? Name one Gitmo detainee that did more damage to any US building than McVeigh and we have an argument.

[notluzn]

I'm done, Pointless to argue with nonreasoning people. Everyone has Opinions but facts always **** someone off and they ignore them. Peace out peeps.

[ImNewHere]

I'm done, Pointless to argue with nonreasoning people. Everyone has Opinions but facts always **** someone off and they ignore them. Peace out peeps.

What reason have I failed to present?

Tell me why it's not OK to waterboard McVeigh and other domestic terrorists and it's OK to waterboard people in other countries?

If it's not torture, maybe that should be part of the interrogation techniques used here.

[Stuball]

:)) :)) :)) I never miss the point. McVeigh is dead if you didn't hear. The people that got water boarded are alive and have it nicer than any of our prisoners here in the United States. They also have it nicer than our Soldiers in Afghanistan. These terrorist have no right to even be alive and should have had Arm ripped off at the time of captured.

I don't know if you think that I don't know anyone in the inside of all of this so you would be wrong. 2 Friends are serving at Gitmo and 15 in Afghanistan and 8 in Iraq, Family at the Pentigon as well. Things are not told to the Public because it's a security risk.

Prisoners in the United States arn't the ones taking out buildings. What are you going to get out of a person that robbed someone? :)) :)) Your point is pointless as much as Jesse the messed up hair Ventura
Are you claiming you havve some sort of security clearence that allows this information to be told to you and no one else?
If the waterboarded prisoners have it so good at Gitmo you should be happy Obama is trying to close the joint
Maximum security Prisons are much worse

[notluzn]

Cough Cough Cough.... Ok let me tell you this once and I hope it is asorbed. They could have waterboarded McVeigh but he gave them all the info they needed relevant to the situation and event. They can do domestic terrorist but when caught, most of the "KNOWN MATERIAL" is already in hand and no further info is needed. Terrorist in Al Qaeda are trained very well actually. Now tell me, how many Terrorist and who were waterboarded. I'm waiting for your answer and your reason for protecting them from this Harmless way.What reason have I failed to present?

Tell me why it's not OK to waterboard McVeigh and other domestic terrorists and it's OK to waterboard people in other countries?

If it's not torture, maybe that should be part of the interrogation techniques used here.

[notluzn]

I could tell you a lot of stuff and it would blow your mind. You and other Libs seem to ignore facts until they smack you guys in the face and we get to watch you all cry for more protection and fill up message boards with more ignorant pointless questions that no matter what anyone says, you're always going to be the negative. It's not fun talking to Borg Liberals with no common sense or minds of their own. Reap what you SoeAre you claiming you havve some sort of security clearence that allows this information to be told to you and no one else?
If the waterboarded prisoners have it so good at Gitmo you should be happy Obama is trying to close the joint
Maximum security Prisons are much worse

[Stuball]

I could tell you a lot of stuff and it would blow your mind. You and other Libs seem to ignore facts until they smack you guys in the face and we get to watch you all cry for more protection and fill up message boards with more ignorant pointless questions that no matter what anyone says, you're always going to be the negative. It's not fun talking to Borg Liberals with no common sense or minds of their own. Reap what you Soe
Is that a Yes?

[captusa]

Please!

Al Mr. Venture does is shout over his opponents.

He's a libertarian so i agree with a lot of the things he says but he's wrong on many points too. I watched him on Hannity and all he did was shout over Sean when he was trying to make a point.

As much as I always liked Jesse, I'm not impressed.

I am not a wrestling fan but Jesse says what he thinks and I agree with a lot of what he says.
Was there anything inaccurate in his statements on the view?

[captusa]

I agree with very little that he said, but he did win the debate on points. His "Bush lied" routine is getting a bit old though...


Behar on the other hand, with here "waterborading was done to produce a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda" conspiracy theory is just plane wacko.


It was interesting to note, however, all of them agreed that Pelosi is lying... :think:

The fact that Behar is an idiot does not make the one who defended waterboarding any less stupid.
BTW Bush did lie when he said we did not torture prisoners then later justified it.

[LoneStarHero]

I was just goping to post about this...

I think you should start a thread on that one. Maybe you already have and I am slow to find it.

[Samm]

The fact that Behar is an idiot does not make the one who defended waterboarding any less stupid.
BTW Bush did lie when he said we did not torture prisoners then later justified it.

To paraphrase a Liberal Icon... It depends on what your definition of torture is.

I don't care how many times Jesse Ventura or anybody else says waterborading is torture, I, and a great many other people, do NOT consider it torture. Just saying it is, does not make it so.

Per the International definition, "torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession..."

The inability of the brain to separate the sensation of drowning from the logic that the interrogators are not going to kill you does not make the experience torture. Uncomfortable yes, even mildly painful in some subjects when their throat spasms, but by no stretch of imagination is the experience severe. If it were, there would not be journalist and others lining up to have it done so that they can have first hand knowledge of the practice.

And no amount of whining from Jesse or you or any other Bush basher is going to make me change my mind so there is no need to respond to this post. Personally, if it would save innocent American lives, I would light a fire in the crotch of these bastards like some of the plains Indians used to do, to get information. Waterboarding is too good for some of them.

[captusa]

To paraphrase a Liberal Icon... It depends on what your definition of torture is.

I don't care how many times Jesse Ventura or anybody else says waterborading is torture, I, and a great many other people, do NOT consider it torture. Just saying it is, does not make it so.

Per the International definition, "torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession..."

The inability of the brain to separate the sensation of drowning from the logic that the interrogators are not going to kill you does not make the experience torture. Uncomfortable yes, even mildly painful in some subjects when their throat spasms, but by no stretch of imagination is the experience severe. If it were, there would not be journalist and others lining up to have it done so that they can have first hand knowledge of the practice.

And no amount of whining from Jesse or you or any other Bush basher is going to make me change my mind so there is no need to respond to this post. Personally, if it would save innocent American lives, I would light a fire in the crotch of these bastards like some of the plains Indians used to do, to get information. Waterboarding is too good for some of them.

Of course your experience with waterboarding differs from Mr. Ventura's.
He considered it to be torture.
I assume you consider it pleasurable.

[BillyBobUSA]

Sorry, dude. Lizzie got worked over. She's smokin' hot, but she lost that round.


I really dont see how you say that.

Jesse could not justify why he considered waterboarding to be torture and not only that he called all 'enhanced interogation techniques' to be torture and said were it up to him he would prosecute everyone that did it, ordered it or had anything to do with it.

That would completely gut the morale of our intelligence community who acted on legal orders to do what they did and no, these techniques are not torture except in the minds of the niave, the partisan, the hate-America-firsters and the moonbats like Ventura.

[BillyBobUSA]

Of course your experience with waterboarding differs from Mr. Ventura's.
He considered it to be torture.
I assume you consider it pleasurable.

Coersion is not pleasurable, but it is not torture either.

Whats next, hartsh language is torture?

Oh, yeah, that is in the enhanced interogation techniques so yeah, Ventura and the libruls think it is torture, lol.

[BillyBobUSA]

Cough Cough Cough.... Ok let me tell you this once and I hope it is asorbed. They could have waterboarded McVeigh but he gave them all the info they needed relevant to the situation and event. They can do domestic terrorist but when caught, most of the "KNOWN MATERIAL" is already in hand and no further info is needed. Terrorist in Al Qaeda are trained very well actually. Now tell me, how many Terrorist and who were waterboarded. I'm waiting for your answer and your reason for protecting them from this Harmless way.

:clap:

[Samm]

Of course your experience with waterboarding differs from Mr. Ventura's.
He considered it to be torture.
I assume you consider it pleasurable.

Don't be silly. There is a LOT of ground between torture and pleasurable. :rolleyes:

[Samm]

I really dont see how you say that.

Jesse could not justify why he considered waterboarding to be torture and not only that he called all 'enhanced interogation techniques' to be torture and said were it up to him he would prosecute everyone that did it, ordered it or had anything to do with it.

That would completely gut the morale of our intelligence community who acted on legal orders to do what they did and no, these techniques are not torture except in the minds of the niave, the partisan, the hate-America-firsters and the moonbats like Ventura.

Maybe when he was waterboarded he wet his pants or cried like a baby and has never gotten over it... big macho man that he is.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

:)) :)) :)) I never miss the point. McVeigh is dead if you didn't hear. The people that got water boarded are alive and have it nicer than any of our prisoners here in the United States. They also have it nicer than our Soldiers in Afghanistan. These terrorist have no right to even be alive and should have had Arm ripped off at the time of captured.

I don't know if you think that I don't know anyone in the inside of all of this so you would be wrong. 2 Friends are serving at Gitmo and 15 in Afghanistan and 8 in Iraq, Family at the Pentigon as well. Things are not told to the Public because it's a security risk.

Prisoners in the United States arn't the ones taking out buildings. What are you going to get out of a person that robbed someone? :)) :)) Your point is pointless as much as Jesse the messed up hair Ventura

I noticed you didn't answer his question.

Oh, btw...

I don't know if you think that I don't know anyone in the inside of all of this so you would be wrong. 2 Friends are serving at Gitmo and 15 in Afghanistan and 8 in Iraq, Family at the Pentigon as well. Things are not told to the Public because it's a security risk.You've been in service for some time now, haven't you? Have you been deployed out of country?

[Greyclouds]

I really dont see how you say that.

Jesse could not justify why he considered waterboarding to be torture and not only that he called all 'enhanced interogation techniques' to be torture and said were it up to him he would prosecute everyone that did it, ordered it or had anything to do with it.

He was trained in the SERE program; while that does not make him an expert on torture, it certainly gives him more experience than Hasselbeck on the subject.

Also, each individual technique, if used once, would most certainly be a severe discomfort and possibly life threatening situation to a detainee (they had emergency tracheotomy kits on hand for the waterboarding, and frostbite/internal bleeding is a possibility for the other techniques). However, the documents show that each technique was used IN TANDEM with the rest. If we kept you in a freezing cell that did not allow you to fully stretch out and frequently took you into a room to waterboard you over the course of months, do you think that would constitute a non-cruel method of punishment for you as a captured POW?



That would completely gut the morale of our intelligence community who acted on legal orders to do what they did[...]

It's too bad that our own legal precedent at the Nuremberg trials turns around to bite our own intelligence officers in the rear ends. Oh, and our execution of Japanese officers for their use of the same techniques on our GI's.

Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.


[...]and no, these techniques are not torture except in the minds of the niave, the partisan, the hate-America-firsters and the moonbats like Ventura.

"naive?" "partisan?"

It appears that there is Republican support for an end to these "enhanced" techniques, so I fail to see how this is an absolute partisan issue. Nor do I see the naivety of calling the techniques what they really are. Or do you believe that torture is beating someone with a cane and everything else is a "tickle-fest?"

"Hate America First," is such a bogus label as well, but I digress.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Per the International definition, "torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession..."

The inability of the brain to separate the sensation of drowning from the logic that the interrogators are not going to kill you does not make the experience torture. Uncomfortable yes, even mildly painful in some subjects when their throat spasms, but by no stretch of imagination is the experience severe. If it were, there would not be journalist and others lining up to have it done so that they can have first hand knowledge of the practice.


By your own definition, it doesn't have to be physical pain.


but by no stretch of imagination is the experience severe
Have you experienced it?

[Greyclouds]

Cough Cough Cough.... Ok let me tell you this once and I hope it is asorbed. They could have waterboarded McVeigh but he gave them all the info they needed relevant to the situation and event.

How do they know? Terry Nichols (the co-conspirator) has siblings who might have been involved.

Water-boarding is the only way to really know what someone knows, right? Also, its not torture, so anything obtained is fair game under the Miranda warnings, right?

I see McVeigh as being a huge domestic terrorist with ties to a grander movement of militancy. Why weren't enhanced interrogation techniques used on him? Why isn't there a cry to adopt them for such cases of domestic savagery?


They can do domestic terrorist but when caught, most of the "KNOWN MATERIAL" is already in hand and no further info is needed.

How do they know that, and what if it isn't?


Terrorist in Al Qaeda are trained very well actually. Now tell me, how many Terrorist and who were waterboarded. I'm waiting for your answer and your reason for protecting them from this Harmless way.

KSM and Abu Zubaydah. And yes, it is still heinous despite the evil actions of the former (the latter was most likely a lower-ranked AQ operative who was simply narcissistic. He revealed very little to his captors).

Far more people were tortured at Abu Ghraib with stress positions, extreme heat/cold and intense pressure.

It is far harder to tell whether or not Abu Ghraib was directly ordered by the military Brass, though.

[captusa]

I really dont see how you say that.

Jesse could not justify why he considered waterboarding to be torture and not only that he called all 'enhanced interogation techniques' to be torture and said were it up to him he would prosecute everyone that did it, ordered it or had anything to do with it.

That would completely gut the morale of our intelligence community who acted on legal orders to do what they did and no, these techniques are not torture except in the minds of the niave, the partisan, the hate-America-firsters and the moonbats like Ventura.

And all the NAZIs that murdered people in the death camps and eizzesatz gruppen sp. were only following orders.
The Nuremberg trials set precedents for responsibility for war crimes.
AND Jesse Ventura is a LIBERAL ??????????????????
And of course Liberal John McCain was against torture including water boarding.
Watch the video.
Jesse Ventura said water boarding was torture because he experienced it in Navy Seal training.
When you have gone through water boarding you have the qualifications to doubt his expertise.

[captusa]

I really dont see how you say that.

Jesse could not justify why he considered waterboarding to be torture and not only that he called all 'enhanced interogation techniques' to be torture and said were it up to him he would prosecute everyone that did it, ordered it or had anything to do with it.

That would completely gut the morale of our intelligence community who acted on legal orders to do what they did and no, these techniques are not torture except in the minds of the niave, the partisan, the hate-America-firsters and the moonbats like Ventura.

I would love to see you tell Mr.Ventura who served in the military and underwent UD training and was honorably discharged that he is niave sic., a partisan, a hate-America-firster and a moonbat.


I am waiting for the chicken hawks like Cheney accept Mr. Ventura's offer to have him water board them to decide if enhanced interrogation techhniques are torture.

[Samm]

By your own definition, it doesn't have to be physical pain.
No it doesn't, but it does have to be severe pain.

BTW... that is not my definition. It is the UN definition.

Have you experienced it?

No, but then I have never had a baby either. However, I have witnessed childbirth. It is very clear to me that having a baby induces worse pain than waterboarding.

[chip]

I'm not sure what you're basing that post on. He was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam. He's also been a governor. He knows warfare, toture and politics. What part of his argument shows he does not know facts or ****?

How about where he says waterboarding was illegal.

[Samm]

You are comparing apples to oranges. The objective of waterboarding is not to cause pain (which it does to some degree), but rather to simulate drowning by inducing the gag reflex, "dry drowning" (inducing a laryngospasm reflex, causing asphyxiation and neurogenic pulmonary edema), and psychological torture.
No it is not apples to oranges. Pain is pain and psychological confusion is psychological confusion. Confusing the senses to make your mind "think" you are dying is why we love extreme amusement parks. We know that we are not going to die, yet our bodies exhibit all of the symptoms of impending death.

The terrorist also knows that he is not actually going to drown, but his physiology does not. The only significant differences between what we pay good money to experience is first that the amusement ride is not particularly unpleasant (for most people) once we accept that we are not going to die; and second, that the waterboarded terrorist is afraid that he won't be able to overcome his instinctual fears and will reveal his secrets.

I would never subject myself to it, but so far, two popular conservatives who supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and who were dismissive of waterboarding decided to put their money were their mouths were and were waterboarded. Both of them, Christopher Hitchens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58) and "Mancow" Muller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0) lasted only a few seconds before stopping the treatment and unequivicollay said "It was torture." (I linked the video of each of their waterboardings to their names so you can see for yourself).

I believe them.

I believe they thought it was torture too... that was very likely their mindset when they volunteered for the experience. Anything unpleasant that exceeds your tolerance can be described as torture if you are inclined to believe that going in. (What the hell did they expect anyway... that it was all a game? Of course it was going to be unpleasant... that is why the technique works.) I feel that way about watching Obama read from his teleprompters; as of yet, I have not been able to tolerate more than a couple of minutes of that "torture" yet others clap and cheer when he talks. Go figure.

[Samm]

How about where he says waterboarding was illegal.

Yeah... we all know Ventura is one of the great legal scholars of our day. ;)

And a great thinker as well... he is one of the 9/11 conspiracy nuts too... and I do not mean an Al Qaeda conspiracy.

Probably thinks the moon landings were fake too... ;)

Remember... he is known as "The Body"... NOT "The Brain." :razz:

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

He still sounds like a pro"rassler"/actor to me. It still amazes me how this guy got elected into a government office.

[CrusaderFrank]

I see a Blonde woman kicking his ass with facts and he hates it. Why else does he get mad.

Yeah, that's what I saw too

[chip]

The objective of waterboarding is not to cause pain (which it does to some degree), but rather to simulate drowning by inducing the gag reflex, "dry drowning" (inducing a laryngospasm reflex, causing asphyxiation and neurogenic pulmonary edema), and psychological torture.



So when our military waterboards its members in SERE training the objective is cause psychological torture?

:rolleyes:

[Samm]

He still sounds like a pro"rassler"/actor to me. It still amazes me how this guy got elected into a government office.

Hey... its Minnesota... look who they just elected (presumably) as Senator.

[captusa]

No it doesn't, but it does have to be severe pain.

BTW... that is not my definition. It is the UN definition.



No, but then I have never had a baby either. However, I have witnessed childbirth. It is very clear to me that having a baby induces worse pain than waterboarding.

You can't make that statement unless you've experienced both.

[captusa]

So when our military waterboards its members in SERE training the objective is cause psychological torture?

:rolleyes:

Actually it is to test the resistance of torture of personel that may have sensitive information.(like Navy Seals who engage in sensitive operations)

[captusa]

He still sounds like a pro"rassler"/actor to me. It still amazes me how this guy got elected into a government office.

I said the same thing about ex-actors like George Murphy and Ronald Reagan but what do I know.
(I didn't even know that trees cause pollution)

[chip]

Actually it is to test the resistance of torture of personel that may have sensitive information.(like Navy Seals who engage in sensitive operations)

I understand what its for, NoDice doesnt.

[captusa]

I understand what its for, NoDice doesnt.

Sorry.
I missed the sarcastic tone of your statement.

[BillyBobUSA]

Maybe when he was waterboarded he wet his pants or cried like a baby and has never gotten over it... big macho man that he is.

I dont know, but whatever the reason is (maybe he hopes to run for Prez in 2012?) he is doing a disservice to this country and its intelligence community.

[BillyBobUSA]

I would love to see you tell Mr.Ventura who served in the military and underwent UD training and was honorably discharged that he is niave sic., a partisan, a hate-America-firster and a moonbat.

Oh, Captain Crunch, I have done far dummer things in my life from pure audacity....and usually got away with it.


I am waiting for the chicken hawks like Cheney accept Mr. Ventura's offer to have him water board them to decide if enhanced interrogation techhniques are torture.


Yeah, right, like that has jack to do with the subject.

No one *wants* to get waterboarded except for some wacko S&M types, which is THE WHOLE POINT, capice?

[captusa]

Originally Posted by Samm
Maybe when he was waterboarded he wet his pants or cried like a baby and has never gotten over it... big macho man that he is.


FYI He passed the test and it was concluded that he was sufficiently able to resist torture to become a SEAL.

[captusa]

[/COLOR]

Oh, Captain Crunch, I have done far dummer things in my life from pure audacity....and usually got away with it.

.....

I would still pay the price of admission to see you do it.
BTW it's "dumber"

[Samm]

You can't make that statement unless you've experienced both.

Well then... there ya go... that rules out Jesse Ventura. :razz:

[Samm]

FYI He passed the test and it was concluded that he was sufficiently able to resist torture to become a SEAL.

That doesn't mean he didn't wet his pants... :razz:

[sgtmac_46]

Where the hell is it Obama's fault? It was in full swing before he took office.

I can admit that despite the fact that I think Obama's reaction to the economic crisis is wrong. Which office? President or Senator? Seems like Barry-boy was part of the same congress that helped make this situation possible.......and the same Democrat part of it that blocked meaningful reform that could averted the present situation.

[sgtmac_46]

Actually it is to test the resistance of torture of personel that may have sensitive information.(like Navy Seals who engage in sensitive operations)

Riddle me this.......why does the military limit itself to waterboarding? If it's ALL torture, why do they stop there with their own personnel? Is it because it's a far lessor form than many other methods available, and the military considers it acceptable to go that far, but no further?

[sgtmac_46]

I would still pay the price of admission to see you do it.
BTW it's "dumber"

I'll do it if you'll do it.......and the first one to break has to admit they were wrong. ;)

[captusa]

Well then... there ya go... that rules out Jesse Ventura. :razz:

Jesse Ventura did not say waterboarding was either more or less painful than childbirth.
He said it was torture.
I was pointing out the certainty comparitive pain of waterboarding to childbirth was questionable from someone who has not experienced neither.
BTW My ex delivered my son naturally after a period of many hours of labor.
She was offered the choice of discontinuing the pain and she declined.
I wonder how many people being waterboarded who refuse the opportunity to have it stopped.
And my ex was not offered $1,000 per second for her favorite charity.

[captusa]

I'll do it if you'll do it.......and the first one to break has to admit they were wrong. ;)

This is what I was (and am still) willing to pay admission to see:
Originally Posted by captusa
I would love to see you (BillyBobUSA) tell Mr.Ventura who served in the military and underwent UD training and was honorably discharged that he is niave sic., a partisan, a hate-America-firster and a moonbat.

[Samm]

Jesse Ventura did not say waterboarding was neither more or less painful than childbirth.
He said it was torture.
I was pointing out the certainty comparitive pain of waterboarding to childbirth was questionable from someone who has not experienced neither.
BTW My ex delivered my son naturally after a period of many hours of labor.
She was offered the choice of discontinuing the pain and she declined.
I wonder how many people being waterboarded who refuse the opportunity to have it stopped.
And my ex was not offered $1,000 per second for her favorite charity.

So we agree... neither childbirth nor waterboarding is considered torture by everybody. The fact that Jesse Ventura considers it torture is completely immaterial. He has no standing beyond his own personal opinion. The fact is, waterboarding does not come up to the international standard of torture set by the UN, so subjective appraisals by individuals mean nothing.

[captusa]

So we agree... neither childbirth nor waterboarding is considered torture by everybody. The fact that Jesse Ventura considers it torture is completely immaterial. He has no standing beyond his own personal opinion. The fact is, waterboarding does not come up to the international standard of torture set by the UN, so subjective appraisals by individuals mean nothing.

I did not agree that waterboarding was not torture.
I will take Mr. Ventura's word since he has the experience.
I will also agree that in most cases childbirth is painful.
I do know a few mothers (very few) whose deliveries were so easy they did not consider them painful.

[Samm]

I did not agree that waterboarding was not torture.
I did not say you did.

I will take Mr. Ventura's word since he has the experience.

Fine, but his opinion is no more valid than yours. What is torture and what is not is subjective regardless of personal experience with it.

I will also agree that in most cases childbirth is painful.
I do know a few mothers (very few) whose deliveries were so easy they did not consider them painful.

Good... we are making progress here. ;) To some people child birth/waterboarding is painful and to some people child birth/waterboarding is not painful. But that's why I said "So we agree... neither childbirth nor waterboarding is considered torture by everybody." in my last post.