Has Atlas Shrugged?

[neoINDIE]

I'm reading this book for the second time, just for the fun of it. The first time I read it, you could say I hedged towards the left in my political thinking. I happened to be at a point where I questioning why, and this book made me think even more.

Now it is making me think again. I asked my wife, name a public figure that is a great mind, inventor, producer, innovator, etc. The only name she could think of is Bill Gates. A great example. Now look at Bill Gates, and how is he generally looked at? With great admiration for his accomplishments, or with contempt?

Where are all the great thinkers? What kind of person does this country really look up to? How do we look at people who have achieved great things in the realm of business? As good or evil?

[Marleysdaddy]

Rand idealized the rational businessperson, someone who didn't let short-term greed hurt his or her finances over a long period of time (I think of someone like Rockefeller who might lower prices to prevent others from ever encroaching on his essential monopoly, rather than abusing the monopoly by increasing prices)...I think right now in this country, we have many James Taggarts and a few Hank Reardens

And I think the public perception of the Hank Rearden types is fairly good...

[neoINDIE]

Rand idealized the rational businessperson, someone who didn't let short-term greed hurt his or her finances over a long period of time (I think of someone like Rockefeller who might lower prices to prevent others from ever encroaching on his essential monopoly, rather than abusing the monopoly by increasing prices)...I think right now in this country, we have many James Taggarts and a few Hank Reardens

Is it becoming so that financial success in this country is frowned upon?

And I agree with your last statement. There are like 535 Taggarts I can think of off the top of my head....

[Marleysdaddy]

Is it becoming so that financial success in this country is frowned upon?


I don't think so...I think financial success gained at the expense of others (and I don't mean legimate, honest dealings...I'm talking Enron type stuff) is frowned upon, and should be. Remember, for Rand (and I agree with her here) humans are an end in themselves, not a means to someone else's end...

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

[Apatriot]

I'm reading this book for the second time, just for the fun of it. The first time I read it, you could say I hedged towards the left in my political thinking. I happened to be at a point where I questioning why, and this book made me think even more.

Now it is making me think again. I asked my wife, name a public figure that is a great mind, inventor, producer, innovator, etc. The only name she could think of is Bill Gates. A great example. Now look at Bill Gates, and how is he generally looked at? With great admiration for his accomplishments, or with contempt?

Where are all the great thinkers? What kind of person does this country really look up to? How do we look at people who have achieved great things in the realm of business? As good or evil?

Usually, it's both. Bill Gates is both looked up to for his accomplishments, but is also reviled for some of his questionable business practices.

That said, I think Atlas is thinking about shrugging.

[neoINDIE]

I don't think so...I think financial success gained at the expense of others (and I don't mean legimate, honest dealings...I'm talking Enron type stuff) is frowned upon, and should be. Remember, for Rand (and I agree with her here) humans are an end in themselves, not a means to someone else's end...

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

I see what you are saying, but I wonder of the line between the people who got rich by screwing others and those who earned it by producing is getting blurred - and people are being led to despise all of them.

Also, if you look at all the "we're in it together" and "patriotic duty to pay taxes" crap they we are being fed on a daily basis, it is freaky. Where is this headed?

Is personal responsibility dead, or on its last breath?

[jeepers]

Is personal responsibility dead, or on its last breath?

I think that it's in the unit on a ventilator.

Whether or not it's going to die, is up to us.

It doesn't look good from here, but the future remains to be seen.

[Marleysdaddy]

I see what you are saying, but I wonder of the line between the people who got rich by screwing others and those who earned it by producing is getting blurred - and people are being led to despise all of them.
Perhaps...some people can be led to anything...but there are still a lot of people using rational thought, and they recognize the difference between the two types.

Also, if you look at all the "we're in it together" and "patriotic duty to pay taxes" crap they we are being fed on a daily basis, it is freaky. Where is this headed?
I think Adam Smith thought we had a patriotic duty to pay taxes. The problem arises when the taxpayers don't decide on what to spend the money (either because they choose not to, or are prevented from doing so)

Is personal responsibility dead, or on its last breath?

I don't think so

[wayoverthehill]

I see what you are saying, but I wonder of the line between the people who got rich by screwing others and those who earned it by producing is getting blurred - and people are being led to despise all of them.

Also, if you look at all the "we're in it together" and "patriotic duty to pay taxes" crap they we are being fed on a daily basis, it is freaky. Where is this headed?

Is personal responsibility dead, or on its last breath?There is a sizeable faction in this country that thinks the only way to get rich is by screwing others. Many of them are on this forum.

I just finished re-reading AS last week and, like you, I was struck by how much nearer we are to ending up the same way as in the book. Government control over every aspect of our lives. Government taking over private businesses. Government control stifling innovation. Government policies reinforcing mediocrity and suppressing individual achievement. Corrupt leadership and an apathetic populace. All the pieces are there and the picture they make is not a pretty one.