Would you support Waterboarding ...

[Rurudyne]

... if it could be shown to be an effective tool for teaching politicians how to do basic accounting?

Imagine, Congresscritters who could actually run a House Bank for simple checking accounts!

Or who wouldn't misplace 100 million dollars worth of unspent appropriated funds (which actually happened a few years back ... I remember them drooling on how to spend it once it was found. Truly, every day is Lotto Winning Day if you're a Congresscritter. :( ).

[Rhonda]

Waterboard all libs before they vote

[Rurudyne]

Waterboard all libs before they vote
It isn't just "D" libs. I believe some of those drooling Congresscritters salivating over a paltry 100 million were "R" toos.

[Late2TheParty]

The politicians are only a reflection of the electorate.

[Rhonda]

The politicians are only a reflection of the electorate.

That is why all libs need to be waterboarded

[Late2TheParty]

That is why all libs need to be waterboarded

I'll volunteer all the liberal Republicans who voted for Bush the second time around then.

[political hack]

Sometimes you have to stop and reason things out. This in my NSHO on the difference between torture and waterboarding. Or, torture and any of the approved methods that have been revealed in the past week.

Torture is something that will permanently harm or damage an individual for the rest of his life, irregardless if that is physical, emotional or mental. I define it that simply. It's the best definition I've been able to find.

Waterboarding, which seems to be the harshest of the approved interrogation procedures can be used to encompass all the other procedures. So, let's make a life comparison.

You step off a curb and find a truck barreling down at you. You actually have to leap out of the way and land flat on your stomach. If the truck had hit you it could be the accidental equivalent of torture. But, seeing as it didn't hit you, what you have learned is to look before you step off the curb. There is no permanent physical, mental or emotional damage. However, if you are in that spot again you will realize the possible trauma of stepping off the curb without looking.

The correlation of stepping off the curb to waterboarding (et. al.) come in that someone who is waterboarded does not acquire permanent damage. What he does acquire is the overwhelming desire to avoid being waterboarded again. Hence, he may begin to turn over his secrets freely. If he avoids the waterboarding it is the same a remembering to look before you step off a curb.

Hence, this puts waterboarding and all of the 'lesser' tortures out of the realm of torture.

Well, that's just my analysis of the issue.

[JerryN]

The politicians are only a reflection of the electorate.

Well then the electorate is pretty damn stupid about waterboarding.

All these naive people acting all uppity about something that was taught to everyone taking SERE training before Vietnam FORTY YEARS AGO!

You'd think this was a new hydrogen bomb the way the politicians and media are carrying on.

War is nothing like a boxing match, you fools!

Get over it, these people were just trying to KILL our people, and we should be nice???!!!

[brody]

Waterboarding?! Is that an Olympic event?

[Rurudyne]

Waterboarding?! Is that an Olympic event?
I'm not even sure boogieboarding is an Olympic event....

[Jags~Beach]

War is hell. If we are at war, then that means our soldiers are authorize to kill, now if we are authorizing our soldiers to kill the enemy, then toruring them by any means ought not to be leading us any further off of our moral bearings track as killing soldiers or even civilians caught in the line of fire for that matter.

This is political staging by the Obama administration, they know no bounds when it comes to using any vehicle neccessary to maintain control of power.

We kill, that is the tip of the moral spectrum, torturing give's a victim an opportunity to save his life, the moral obligation then fall's on the enemy being tortured to comply with the interigation so as not to be tortured to death. Taking death out of the equation can take away the effectiveness of interigation, interigations mind you aimed at one sole purpose, to save live's.

We kill in war to save live's, torturing is part of war's equation to save live's it is a highly effective form, to remove this form in light of being politically correct in war. We kill in war, and torture is a way to save an enemy from being killed for their attempt to kill us, by them complying with us.

It is one thing if we killed them for complying with us after they were tortured, and another if they recieved humane condition's for complying.

The terrorist enemy will torture us, because the effect's of torture give's an opponent a huge intelligence advantage in war, taking that advantage away, is something only an enemy who has taken over us would do to give the opponent the ultimate intelligence advantage.

[Rurudyne]

I'm not sure Congresscritters deserve 'humane treatment' even if they could learn sound accounting principals (which they probably can't).

Just getting back to the op....

[ComeHomeAmerica]

I don't follow the GOP with waterboarding isn't torture, because that is laughable... If it's not torture why doesn't Sean bring back Alan for an episode and have it done a few hundred times to Alan C. on air....? And then we'll ask him.:lol:


However, you can't follow a bunch of "rules" in a war. War is HELL!

Now, the question is: how do we know who is who, and if these waterboarded terrorists are in fact "bad guys?" And wouldn't you say anything if you thought you were going to die, or you were being tortured? Not all would, but most would just say anything....

[DocHolliday]

War is hell. If we are at war, then that means our soldiers are authorize to kill, now if we are authorizing our soldiers to kill the enemy, then toruring them by any means ought not to be leading us any further off of our moral bearings track as killing soldiers or even civilians caught in the line of fire for that matter.

This is political staging by the Obama administration, they know no bounds when it comes to using any vehicle neccessary to maintain control of power.

We kill, that is the tip of the moral spectrum, torturing give's a victim an opportunity to save his life, the moral obligation then fall's on the enemy being tortured to comply with the interigation so as not to be tortured to death. Taking death out of the equation can take away the effectiveness of interigation, interigations mind you aimed at one sole purpose, to save live's.

We kill in war to save live's, torturing is part of war's equation to save live's it is a highly effective form, to remove this form in light of being politically correct in war. We kill in war, and torture is a way to save an enemy from being killed for their attempt to kill us, by them complying with us.

It is one thing if we killed them for complying with us after they were tortured, and another if they recieved humane condition's for complying.

The terrorist enemy will torture us, because the effect's of torture give's an opponent a huge intelligence advantage in war, taking that advantage away, is something only an enemy who has taken over us would do to give the opponent the ultimate intelligence advantage.

The problem with the liberals like Obama is that they believe in moral relativism. They do not believe in good and evil. Hence, they do not see the threat of Al Queda and it's like.

What they see as the threat are those of us that know good and evil exists (i.e. those that acknowledge moral absolutes).

This is why Obama and Pelosi view the conservatives as the terrorists and the terrorists as somehow misunderstood.

[zantax]

I don't follow the GOP with waterboarding isn't torture, because that is laughable... If it's not torture why doesn't Sean bring back Alan for an episode and have it done a few hundred times to Alan C. on air....? And then we'll ask him.:lol:


However, you can't follow a bunch of "rules" in a war. War is HELL!

Now, the question is: how do we know who is who, and if these waterboarded terrorists are in fact "bad guys?" And wouldn't you say anything if you thought you were going to die, or you were being tortured? Not all would, but most would just say anything....

We waterboarded exactly three people, no real doubt as to whether they were actually terrorists either.

[Rurudyne]

Doc ... ever notice that they have no problem claiming the moral high ground they otherwise don't seem to believe in when it comes to interrogation techniques and how it is more moral for government to spend our money than for us to spend our money ... among others?

[zantax]

Liberal thought process

waterboarding terrorists to save American lives = immoral

killing Terry Shiavo by with holding food and water = moral

[DocHolliday]

Doc ... ever notice that they have no problem claiming the moral high ground they otherwise don't seem to believe in when it comes to interrogation techniques and how it is more moral for government to spend our money than for us to spend our money ... among others?

They try to claim the moral high ground. However, they lost that when they went the route of supporting the murdering of the unborn, while being against the death penalty of heinous murderers mind you.

Al Queda murders 3000 people on 9/11 including women and children. One of our soldiers puts a panty on the head of an Al Queda prisoner and the liberals try to equate the two.

These people are a work of art.

[DocHolliday]

Liberal thought process

waterboarding terrorists to save American lives = immoral

killing Terry Shiavo by with holding food and water = moral

No kidding.

The heads of these people are so twisted that they have to screw their hats on.

[Rurudyne]

These people are a work of art.
A meadow muffin by any other name would foul your boot too.

[Rurudyne]

WOW! Do you really believe that? Liberals and democrats are citizens of the country as much as you are.
Rhonda, like many people on both sides of the isle, will make over the top comments when trying to convey visceral distaste.

Elected Democrats are the uncontestable American champions of lawless and arbitrary governance, malfeasance, abuse of the courts etceteras ... and sometimes the emotions they inspire spill over onto the people who vote for them.

BTW ... this thread was actually about the low standard of accounting ethics and acumen of Congresscritters ... without any mention of party. Waterboarding only came into it because of all the waterboarding threads.

[Rhonda]

WOW! Do you really believe that? Liberals and democrats are citizens of the country as much as you are.

You obviously do not know that I was being sarcastic :))

[awakenedcitizen]

The Japanese who ran the POW camps my Dad was in, in WWII were executed for torture; experts agree torture does not gain any more intelligence than non-torture methods; the 10 things that were revealed by the Al Quada guy who was waterboarded 183 times were not even important; the Geneva convention rules are there for a reason; some guy on the radio today screeching that "now bin Laden knows our secrets about interrogation" is just laughable. The methods of "enhanced interrogation" have been in magazine articles I have seen in the beauty salon and online for years.

We are the better people when we do not torture. and it does not give us more and better intell

[awakenedcitizen]

No kidding.

The heads of these people are so twisted that they have to screw their hats on.
Actually, torture for torture sake, does not make sense. It made some people feel like we were "doing something".