Pittsburgh Police: 3 Officers Killed in Shooting and Standoff

[Ballygrl]

This is really getting outrageous :evil: God Bless the families.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512560,00.html

Pittsburgh Police: 3 Officers Killed in Shooting and Standoff

Saturday, April 04, 2009

PITTSBURGH — A man opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, before barricading himself in the home, a police official said.

Three officers were killed, said a police official at the scene who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

At least five officers were wounded, police spokeswoman Diane Richard said. It's not clear if that included the slain officers.

The man who fired at the officers was arrested after a several-hour standoff. One witness reported hearing hundreds of shots.

Edward Perkovic, a 22-year-old who said he was the gunman's best friend, said he got a call at work from him in which he said, "Eddie, I am going to die today. ... Tell your family I love them and I love you."

"I heard gunshots and he hung up," Perkovic said.

The officers were called to the home in the Stanton Heights neighborhood at about 7 a.m., Richard said.

Tom Moffitt, 51, a city firefighter who lives two blocks away, said he heard about the shooting on his scanner and came to the scene, where he heard "hundreds, just hundreds of shots. And not just once — several times."

Rob Gift, 45, who lives a block away, said he heard rapid gunfire as he was letting his dog out.

He said the neighborhood of well-kept single-family houses and manicured lawns is home to many police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other city workers.

"It's just a very quiet neighborhood," Gift said.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

Two cops were wounded also.

The mayor is holding a press conference at 3 today.

[Ballygrl]

Two cops were wounded also.

The mayor is holding a press conference at 3 today.

I'm watching it on Fox now. Did you know the cops Tommy?

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

I'm watching it on Fox now. Did you know the cops Tommy?

They haven't released the names, but it's pretty much a guarantee I'm going to know a couple of them.

[Ballygrl]

They haven't released the names, but it's pretty much a guarantee I'm going to know a couple of them.

Wow, I'm really sorry. :(

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

Wow, I'm really sorry. :(

This has been a bad month to be a cop.

[Hadassah]

Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord. Give comfort and peace to the families and friends of those murdered. Heal those who were wounded and touch the killer's heart so that he may turn to You.

Amen.



That said........... :(( :(( :((

[Stuball]

I always hear how the domestic dispute cases are the most dangerous ones the police respond to

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I always hear how the domestic dispute cases are the most dangerous ones the police respond to

The call to the friend sounded like he was attempting suicide.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

I always hear how the domestic dispute cases are the most dangerous ones the police respond to

This was a straight-up suicide-by-cop.

[FidelisAdMortem]

He was captured alive. He didnt get his wish. **** him.

[RTchoke]

This was a straight-up suicide-by-cop.

Yep, and it ****es me off. If you don't have the guts to do it yourself then man up and deal with your life. Forcing others to take your life for you and taking others with you in the process is an act of cowardice IMHO.

:evil:

[uncledoom]

The updated story stated this guy was fearful of an Obama gun ban. What exactly does that have to do with killing cops?

[RTchoke]

The updated story stated this guy was fearful of an Obama gun ban. What exactly does that have to do with killing cops?

That's what his "friends" are saying. Somehow I'm skeptical of that line of reasoning. If you're really afraid of a gun ban, you think the best way to deal with that is take your guns and kill a bunch of cops? How is that going to help? Seems to me that would defeat your whole aim, which I assume would be to keep the AWB from becoming reality. :eh:

[uncledoom]

That's what his "friends" are saying. Somehow I'm skeptical of that line of reasoning. If you're really afraid of a gun ban, you think the best way to deal with that is take your guns and kill a bunch of cops? How is that going to help? Seems to me that would defeat your whole aim, which I assume would be to keep the AWB from becoming reality. :eh:

I'm thinking the same thing. Throwing in some political nonsense to make another senseless shooting mean something...

[FidelisAdMortem]

He could of been fearful of it, however it could have nothing to do with this incident.

This was a domestic, in which turned into a gunbattle with the officers arriving being unable to return the type of fire that was being used against them.

We get a 9mm service weapon, some departments get .40 or . 45 cal. Perps have ak47s.

How can we compete?

Its a joke.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

He could of been fearful of it, however it could have nothing to do with this incident.

This was a domestic, in which turned into a gunbattle with the officers arriving being unable to return the type of fire that was being used against them.

We get a 9mm service weapon, some departments get .40 or . 45 cal. Perps have ak47s.

How can we compete?

Its a joke.

Pittsburgh cops carry Glock 17s.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

That's what his "friends" are saying. Somehow I'm skeptical of that line of reasoning. If you're really afraid of a gun ban, you think the best way to deal with that is take your guns and kill a bunch of cops? How is that going to help? Seems to me that would defeat your whole aim, which I assume would be to keep the AWB from becoming reality. :eh:

Apparently he was one of those Zionist Occupied Government loons.

[RTchoke]

I'm thinking the same thing. Throwing in some political nonsense to make another senseless shooting mean something...

Another friend, Joe DiMarco, said Poplawski had been laid off from his job at a glass factory earlier this year. DiMarco said he didn't know the name of the company, but knew his friend had been upset about losing his job.

I don't know about you, but I KNOW where my friends work. :eh:

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

That's what his "friends" are saying. Somehow I'm skeptical of that line of reasoning. If you're really afraid of a gun ban, you think the best way to deal with that is take your guns and kill a bunch of cops? How is that going to help? Seems to me that would defeat your whole aim, which I assume would be to keep the AWB from becoming reality. :eh:

Because some of those who claim this are freakin' nuts.

[RTchoke]

Because some of those who claim this are freakin' nuts.

Who claim what? That the threat of an AWB bothers them?

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Who claim what? That the threat of an AWB bothers them?

It's one thing to disagree with the ban, or even be worried it may happen, but reading some of the stuff here and elsewhere... there's some nutty people out there.

But regardless, I fail to see how shooting up cops and others will gain sympathy for your cause.

[LouC]

Prayers for the slain officers and for their grieving families.

[Samm]

Pittsburgh cops carry Glock 17s.

And I am guessing that many are also equipped with an AR and/or a 12 gauge in the trunk of their car for just such an occasion. If they are not... they should be.

Sorry for your loss Tommy... even if it turns out you did not personally know any of these fellows.

[RTchoke]

It's one thing to disagree with the ban, or even be worried it may happen, but reading some of the stuff here and elsewhere... there's some nutty people out there.

But regardless, I fail to see how shooting up cops and others will gain sympathy for your cause.

Which is why I asked who you were referencing as being nutty. There are nuts in all walks of life regardless of political affiliation, gender, profession etc. They're just nuts. :cool:

Which is why uncledoom and I mentioned we were skeptical of the "reasoning" behind why his "friends" (who don't know where he used to work but know his ideology in regards to guns :eh:) said he did this. If you are that afraid of another AWB, the last thing you are going to do is suicide by cop to further your viewpoint.

[DaGooseMon]

It's one thing to disagree with the ban, or even be worried it may happen, but reading some of the stuff here and elsewhere... there's some nutty people out there.

But regardless, I fail to see how shooting up cops and others will gain sympathy for your cause.


This guy was a lunatic, fighting with his own mother, who called the cops on him, like she has before. "Shooting up cops" as you put it has not one damn thing to do with a potential gun ban. This is a bad dude, that was probably threatening his mother, ended up killing 3 police officers. There's no connection between his "cause" and shooting these officers. So don't post as if there is. That's inappropriate.

[DaGooseMon]

This was a straight-up suicide-by-cop.

He was wearing a bullet proof vest, in possession of 3 weapons, the AK-47, a .22 long rifle, and a hand gun. The officers walked in the door, and he opened fire, and he eventually surrendered. That doesn't sound like suicide by cop to me.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

This guy was a lunatic, fighting with his own mother, who called the cops on him, like she has before. "Shooting up cops" as you put it has not one damn thing to do with a potential gun ban. This is a bad dude, that was probably threatening his mother, ended up killing 3 police officers. There's no connection between his "cause" and shooting these officers. So don't post as if there is. That's inappropriate.

I didn't say there was. I was referring to the statements by friends about his fears of gun banning and such---and stating that this would be a ****-poor way to make that point and gain sympathy for the cause.

[RTchoke]

He was wearing a bullet proof vest, in possession of 3 weapons, the AK-47, a .22 long rifle, and a hand gun. The officers walked in the door, and he opened fire, and he eventually surrendered. That doesn't sound like suicide by cop to me.

At the time, this information was not known and it did rather point in that direction with the "I'm gonna die today" phone call to his friend. I thought the same thing based on what little info there was at first.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

He was wearing a bullet proof vest, in possession of 3 weapons, the AK-47, a .22 long rifle, and a hand gun. The officers walked in the door, and he opened fire, and he eventually surrendered. That doesn't sound like suicide by cop to me.

That just means he decided to take out as many people with him as he could. Last stand and all that.

[LouC]

That just means he decided to take out as many people with him as he could. Last stand and all that.

I think he expected to go out in a blaze but was only wounded and ended up deciding he didn't want to die after all.

Scum.

[RTchoke]

I think he expected to go out in a blaze but was only wounded and ended up deciding he didn't want to die after all.

Scum.

Hence my other post about those who expect others to take them out because they are too cowardly to do it themselves. :evil:

[jimjames418]

Associated Press (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gxAP_ul1xtDvN-3H8XQ5EaI6_7cAD97BR6T00)

The three dead officers are Eric Kelly, Stephen Mayhle and Paul Sciullo III. Kelly had been on the force for 14 years and the other two only two years each. Another officer was shot in the hand and a fifth broke his leg on a fence.

[MrDuffy]

I was watching FNC this morning and after a while of listening to the two commentators, (they definitely can't be called journalists) for about 45 minutes began to wonder if Saturday is Liberal Day on Fox News.
The male commentator continually asked such questions and made such statements as to lead the viewer to believe "high capacity magazines" and "assault-rifles" are the sole reason for today's and yesterday's unfortunate incidents.
I was unable to pick out the facts between such descriptions as "horrific", "tragic", and "terrible tragedy", etc. etc.
First we're told there was a machine gun used. An AK-47. Then we're told it's something else, but whatever it is it's got to be bad. Well was there an illegal weapon used here or a semi-automatic spin-off? Important? Not unless you're trying to reach the emotions of the ignorant masses and spin your particular version of the story with your commentary.
Was this a terrible incident? Most definitely. The subject needs to be tried, convicted, and immediately executed. No coddling. No bull. No worrying about his self-esteem. Do it and get it done with, showing him the same mercy he gave to the Officers whose lives he stole.
My thoughts and prayers are most certainly with the wounded and the families of those whose lives were stolen, as well as with the others of the Brotherhood.
My point, I guess is this: When I turn on Fox News I do so to find out the latest news with the concise, factual reporting we've all come to expect. I don't however expect to see and hear a prolonged commentary that seems to be unbalanced in the direction the individual commentator seems to feel it should.
State the news with the available facts and move on to the next event. If I wanted to watch PMSNBC I'd turn to PMSNBC.
I find myself asking as Glenn Beck did yesterday: Why are you covering this story so?
In my case I was waiting to find out who the commentators were so I could blast away at FNC about them. I couldn't stand listening any more and cut them off. While channel surfing down through the channels guess who else was fascinated by this story. NO ONE.
None of the other channels were covering ( or should I say, smothering) this incident.
In the future, Fox, I hope you cover your stories with a real journalist who can touch on the story once an hour or so and keep us informed on the other events of the world.
I never did find the "news" on TV this morning. Thank goodness for the internet.
OK. Done ranting. Bye.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Pittsburgh cops carry Glock 17s.

Exactly my point.

I carry a Glock 19.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Westboro Baptist Church announced that they are picketing the funerals and memorials for the dead officers and are praising the shooter.

[James Juno]

Westboro Baptist Church announced that they are picketing the funerals and memorials for the dead officers and are praising the shooter.

What's their message? We are worthless *******s?

[ImNewHere]

Exactly my point.

I carry a Glock 19.

I gots me one of them. Fits in the front pocket of my Levis.

Not that I'd ever think to actually carry it there, but it fits.

[Samm]

I gots me one of them. Fits in the front pocket of my Levis.

Not that I'd ever think to actually carry it there, but it fits.

:D Why? Are you afraid you will be deluged with women asking: "Are you packin a Glock... or are you just glad to see me?" :razz:

[ScottFree]

Looks like the left finally has their ultra-right-winged nut job from whom to make their case for total gun confiscation:

http://kdka.com/local/officers.shot.Stanton.2.975820.html


Friends said 23 year-old Richard Poplawski feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Three officers were killed.

Police planned to release more details at a 3 p.m. news conference Saturday.

Poplawski was arrested after a several-hour standoff.

One witness reported hearing hundreds of shots.

The shootings occurred just two weeks after four police officers were fatally shot March 21 in Oakland, Calif., in the deadliest day for U.S. law enforcement since Sept. 11, 2001.

Poplawski's friends at the scene described him as a young man who thought the Obama administration would ban guns.

One friend, Edward Perkovic, said Poplawski feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon."

Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said he feared that President Obama was going to take away his rights, though he said he "wasn't violently against Obama."

[NascarGirl2448]

Westboro Baptist Church announced that they are picketing the funerals and memorials for the dead officers and are praising the shooter.

Those scum will show up anywhere they are not wanted, won't they? These losers have stooped to low before, but this is as low as it gets!! How can anyone praise some scumbag that killed 3 police officers?

[jeepers]

I can't wrap my brain around three more, so soon. :(

It's like the crazies are having a homicide party.

Prayers and good thoughts go out to the familes, the people of Pittsburgh and the entire LE community.

[ImNewHere]

:D Why? Are you afraid you will be deluged with women asking: "Are you packin a Glock... or are you just glad to see me?" :razz:

:))

.......... walked right into that one.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Westboro Baptist Church announced that they are picketing the funerals and memorials for the dead officers and are praising the shooter.

Link?

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

Westboro Baptist Church announced that they are picketing the funerals and memorials for the dead officers and are praising the shooter.

Westboro churchgoers are likely to get their ass kicked.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Link?
Yeah, right... Like I'm going to post a link to any of their sites on the open boards. :rolleyes:

[sgtmac_46]

I always hear how the domestic dispute cases are the most dangerous ones the police respond to Especially when it's some mental case still living with his mother in her basement.....seriously.

[sgtmac_46]

The updated story stated this guy was fearful of an Obama gun ban. What exactly does that have to do with killing cops? It doesn't, it's just the media trying to squeeze some innuendo out of it.

[sgtmac_46]

He could of been fearful of it, however it could have nothing to do with this incident.

This was a domestic, in which turned into a gunbattle with the officers arriving being unable to return the type of fire that was being used against them.

We get a 9mm service weapon, some departments get .40 or . 45 cal. Perps have ak47s.

How can we compete?

Its a joke. We've got M4 carbines and Remington 1100's in our patrol cars at my department.

Does the NYPD not put patrol carbines in their cars yet?

[sgtmac_46]

That just means he decided to take out as many people with him as he could. Last stand and all that.
Yep......he likely intended it as a suicide by cop, and it didn't work out that way.......then he lost his nerve like a coward and surrendered.

He should have ate the barrel.

[Gunslinger]

Especially when it's some mental case still living with his mother in her basement.....seriously.

This is truth.

Another Sad day for Law enforcement.

The way of Community policing is going to quickly be replaced by a swift swing back into taking names style policing.

It's the nature and cycle of the beast.

:frown:

[sgtmac_46]

This is truth.

Another Sad day for Law enforcement.

The way of Community policing is going to quickly be replaced by a swift swing back into taking names style policing.

It's the nature and cycle of the beast.

:frown:
Exactly!

A man pulls a gun on the police, the police need to gun him down in short order.......this is why i've long said that cops aren't SHOOTING ENOUGH PEOPLE! There are folks walking around alive who by all rights should have been shot dead by a cop for something they did, and for some reason, either a failure on the part of an officer to respond effectively, or shear dumb luck surviving the wounds.

[Gunslinger]

Exactly!

A man pulls a gun on the police, the police need to gun him down in short order.......this is why i've long said that cops aren't SHOOTING ENOUGH PEOPLE! There are folks walking around alive who by all rights should have been shot dead by a cop for something they did, and for some reason, either a failure on the part of an officer to respond effectively, or shear dumb luck surviving the wounds.

Preaching to the choir.

I'm doing my part and I'm sure you've done yours.

See my Sig(line).

:shhh:

[sgtmac_46]

We've got M4 carbines and Remington 1100's in our patrol cars at my department.

Does the NYPD not put patrol carbines in their cars yet?

I just thought about my own question.....how much money would it take to equip and train 40,000 police officers for police carbines? :eek:

[Gunslinger]

I just thought about my own question.....how much money would it take to equip and train 40,000 on police carbines? :eek:

We equiped 4000 Officers with M&P15 AR15s and ordered 4000 Glocks for our Officers to transition too (I refuse to carry a Glock and will keep my 3 Sigs on me, yes, 3..).

It cost so much that there is no over-time allowance for any units, regardless of reason.

Example : Sexual crimes detective who has built rapport being sent home and another one taking their place due to budget constraints...

[sgtmac_46]

We equiped 4000 Officers with M&P15 AR15s and ordered 4000 Glocks for our Officers to transition too (I refuse to carry a Glock and will keep my 3 Sigs on me, yes, 3..).

It cost so much that there is no over-time allowance for any units, regardless of reason.

Example : Sexual crimes detective who has built rapport being sent home and another one taking their place due to budget constraints... It doesn't surprise me.......money's tight these days.

That having been said, any department who doesn't outfit and train their officers in what is considered modern equipment, i.e. patrol carbines, is doing their officers a disservice.


I like the GLOCK myself, but one thing that constantly confuses me is why departments are always trading in perfectly serviceable guns for another model. Agencies all over seem to do it every few years, despite the fact that the sidearms they already have are still in excellent condition, and you then bringing in all knew training issues with the introduction of a new make/model of weapon.


As a firearms trainer, it would make more logical sense to stick with one gun, rather than to constantly have to train officers how to shoot a new one, when they didn't spend much time learning to use the old one that well to begin with.

[Gunslinger]

It doesn't surprise me.......money's tight these days.

That having been said, any department who doesn't outfit and train their officers in what is considered modern equipment, i.e. patrol carbines, is doing their officers a disservice.


I like the GLOCK myself, but one thing that constantly confuses me is why departments are always trading in perfectly serviceable guns for another model. Agencies all over seem to do it every few years, despite the fact that the sidearms they already have are still in excellent condition, and you then bringing in all knew training issues with the introduction of a new make/model of weapon.


As a firearms trainer, it would make more logical sense to stick with one gun, rather than to constantly have to train officers how to shoot a new one, when they didn't spend much time learning to use the old one that well to begin with.

My department currently allows Five different models/makes of Firearms in 9MM.

I carry a P226 Stainless on my hip, P226 SCT on my raid vest and a P239 on my ankle.

Much? Probably, but I can.

We have to buy our own weapons, or at least until this year, had too.

New recruits will be getting county issued weapons.

I'm grand-fathered in with mine and won't be giving them up in lieu of some space gun.

PS: I own a Glock 17 and had/sold my Glock 26.

I do not like it remotely. The trigger is terrible, the sights had to be replaced to be useful, the weight bothers me as it's entirely too light, the grip back strap feels too short for me and overall I only like the neat finish. Accuracy is also leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth after hundreds of rounds I can't group nearly as well as I can with my Sigs. My backup P239 shoots a tighter group then my Glock 17. /Glockhate. <3

[sgtmac_46]

My department currently allows Five different models/makes of Firearms in 9MM.

I carry a P226 Stainless on my hip, P226 SCT on my raid vest and a P239 on my ankle.

Much? Probably, but I can.

We have to buy our own weapons, or at least until this year, had too.

New recruits will be getting county issued weapons.

I'm grand-fathered in with mine and won't be giving them up in lieu of some space gun.

PS: I own a Glock 17 and had/sold my Glock 26.

I do not like it remotely. The trigger is terrible, the sights had to be replaced to be useful, the weight bothers me as it's entirely too light, the grip back strap feels too short for me and overall I only like the neat finish. Accuracy is also leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth after hundreds of rounds I can't group nearly as well as I can with my Sigs. My backup P239 shoots a tighter group then my Glock 17. /Glockhate. <3

You have to shoot what you're comfortable with. I carry a Glock 22C as my duty, and a Glock 27 as my backup. I've never found the accuracy to be a problem, as I can consistently keep all rounds well within the 8 ring from 0 to 35 yards.

I have a Sig 239, it is a beautiful gun (as all Sigs are) but it never felt good in my hand. Same with a Beretta Cougar that I own.

The issue with most modern quality firearms is not a difference in accuracy or reliability, but preference and comfort. Some guns fit individual hands better than others, some feel better balanced......and you'll shoot well what you like to shoot.

My preference is always a 1911, which my department has not approved. My custom Nighthawk 1911 feels like it was made as a custom extension of my hand, and I can eat the 10 ring out of a target at 25 yards with it.

[waynevan]

See my Sig(line).

:shhh:

Is that Roland the gunslinger? GREAT story.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Yeah, right... Like I'm going to post a link to any of their sites on the open boards. :rolleyes:

You never stated you got the info from their site. Its no uncommon for people to ask for links when a poster claims something.

Welcome to the board. Thats how it works here.

[FidelisAdMortem]

We've got M4 carbines and Remington 1100's in our patrol cars at my department.

Does the NYPD not put patrol carbines in their cars yet?

Nope, patrol officers overrall are way overpowered. Thats a fact.

[FidelisAdMortem]

So anyone else hear the 911 domestic call was a setup? I saw a interview with a spokesperson from Pitts. Police and that person stated the 911 call was a false call to police as a domestic and the individual was waiting for to ambush the police as they arrived.

If so, this takes on a whole other twist to the story.

[ogibillm]

So anyone else hear the 911 domestic call was a setup? I saw a interview with a spokesperson from Pitts. Police and that person stated the 911 call was a false call to police as a domestic and the individual was waiting for to ambush the police as they arrived.

If so, this takes on a whole other twist to the story.

i heard that he was ready and waiting to ambush the police, but i hadn't heard the call was a fake.

[FidelisAdMortem]

i heard that he was ready and waiting to ambush the police, but i hadn't heard the call was a fake.

That could be correct, I suppose knowing in certain who made that 911 call would put it to rest, whether it was his mother who called or the individual himself.

[James Juno]

Nope, patrol officers overrall are way overpowered. Thats a fact.

How can a patrol officer be "overpowered?" If it was up to me, all cops on all beats would be toting tommy guns.

Not trying to being sarcastic or snide, I'm just curious.

[NascarGirl2448]

Yeah, right... Like I'm going to post a link to any of their sites on the open boards. :rolleyes:

Not only that, but those scum are gonna, according to their stupid "schedule," come to my home state in a couple of weeks and not only make jerks of themselves in Raleigh & Durham, but also picket the memorial service for the 8 people who were senselessly murdered in a nursing home in Carthage, about an hour and a half from where I live!! Do those idiots have any decency whatsoever?? They even go as far as to claim that "God sent the shooter!!" How seriously screwed up is that?

[FidelisAdMortem]

How can a patrol officer be "overpowered?" If it was up to me, all cops on all beats would be toting tommy guns.

Not trying to being sarcastic or snide, I'm just curious.

I work for the largest police dept. in the world. My dept is larger than most countries military. We are issued nothing more than a 9mm service weapon. Therefore, we are easily overpowered on the streets and usually we are.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

I work for the largest police dept. in the world. My dept is larger than most countries military. We are issued nothing more than a 9mm service weapon. Therefore, we are easily overpowered on the streets and usually we are.

Drug dealers and stickup boys carry quality hardware, as a rule. I'm not sure people realize that.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

Not only that, but those scum are gonna, according to their stupid "schedule," come to my home state in a couple of weeks and not only make jerks of themselves in Raleigh & Durham, but also picket the memorial service for the 8 people who were senselessly murdered in a nursing home in Carthage, about an hour and a half from where I live!! Do those idiots have any decency whatsoever?? They even go as far as to claim that "God sent the shooter!!" How seriously screwed up is that?

This is Pittsburgh. If Westboro comes there is an excellent chance that they will be beaten up. I remember when the KKK came to town about a decade ago and downtown Pittsburgh was like a boxing ring.

[FidelisAdMortem]

This is Pittsburgh. If Westboro comes there is an excellent chance that they will be beaten up. I remember when the KKK came to town about a decade ago and downtown Pittsburgh was like a boxing ring.

I did alittle research of that area of Pitts where this shooting occured. It seems it has its fairshare of white power types.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Drug dealers and stickup boys carry quality hardware, as a rule. I'm not sure people realize that.

Well, realize it or not, its a fact that aside from some depts, your average police officer statistically has nothing more than his service sidepiece.

Either way, I get out of my car, Im doomed against a highpower weapon, my time is up lol.

[NascarGirl2448]

This is Pittsburgh. If Westboro comes there is an excellent chance that they will be beaten up. I remember when the KKK came to town about a decade ago and downtown Pittsburgh was like a boxing ring.

I just know I wouldn't want to be anywhere those scum are making jerks of themselves. Of course if people ignore them, they just might shut up and go away.

[Gaetano "Tommy" Lucchese]

I did alittle research of that area of Pitts where this shooting occured. It seems it has its fairshare of white power types.

Stanton Heights is right next to East Liberty, which until recently was the worst gang neighborhood in the city. There was a lot of tension.

We also have a peculiar species of "urban redneck." It's tough to explain.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Stanton Heights is right next to East Liberty, which until recently was the worst gang neighborhood in the city. There was a lot of tension.

We also have a peculiar species of "urban redneck." It's tough to explain.

Yea well it seems theres some trash there. I saw a few interviews of so called friends of this perp, and they seems just like him, the way they were nonchalantly talking about the incident, seemed like it could of been them who did this as well. I venture to say this guy isnt alone there with this sort of crazy ideology.

[James Juno]

I work for the largest police dept. in the world. My dept is larger than most countries military. We are issued nothing more than a 9mm service weapon. Therefore, we are easily overpowered on the streets and usually we are.

OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the cops were overpowered, as in they carried too much firepower.

Like I said, if it was up to me, you'd be walking around with a Thompson slung over your shoulder. :)

[Dual867PowerMac]

You never stated you got the info from their site. Its no uncommon for people to ask for links when a poster claims something.

Welcome to the board. Thats how it works here.
For your edification, posting a link to their main website has been deemed to be against the TOS here. I don't know about links to the other sites the WBC owns, but I wouldn't post them even if they weren't.

[FidelisAdMortem]

For your edification, posting a link to their main website has been deemed to be against the TOS here. I don't know about links to the other sites the WBC owns, but I wouldn't post them even if they weren't.

Again, originally you simply stated they were attending and that they praised the shooter, you did not state where you got the info, so I asked for a link to verify.

Welcome to the board, newbie.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Again, originally you simply stated they were attending and that they praised the shooter, you did not state where you got the info, so I asked for a link to verify.

Welcome to the board, newbie.
I know what you're trying to do. Stop it.

[FidelisAdMortem]

I know what you're trying to do. Stop it.

Do what. Stop being paranoid, Im not wearing black and Im not here to get you. And I dont have helicopter. Relax.

[Dual867PowerMac]

Got an issue? Go to the mods.

[Gunslinger]

Is that Roland the gunslinger? GREAT story.

Yes, one of my favorite stories.

And Yes, that's a Sig in my holster.

:dance:

[FidelisAdMortem]

Got an issue? Go to the mods.

What are you talking about?

You made a claim, I asked you for a link and you had a hissy fit like Im setting you up for something.

Jeez, you're paranoid.

[Pudge]

This is Pennsylvania too, this state doesn't execute anyone, especially cop killers.

This guy deserves to be dragged behind the courthouse and shot. There is no doubt of guilt. But he won't be. The families and friends of three police officers are left with a ripping hole in their lives that will never close, and this piece of **** is going to live out his life in prison on our dime.

I am so ashamed of living in this state right now. I wish, just for once, it was Texas.

[akuma]

I just thought about my own question.....how much money would it take to equip and train 40,000 police officers for police carbines? :eek:

even were it possible to actually logistically train 40,000 ( well actually a little less with budget cuts and attrition from retirements) twice annually- its unlikely the city would consider having regular patrol officers to patrol with M4's - simply because of the FEAR of the image that some citizen was struck by a stray shot; let alone the resulting law suits that would surely ensue.

new york city is pretty densely populated so the thinking goes that having officers with the "ability" to fire higher powered weapons will keep Comptrollers and Mayors in additional cold sweats.

it took an incredible effort just for Cops to get Glocks - shotguns arent even in cop cars here.( IMO they should at least have that)

i am not opposed that cops here in the city should have access at least to carbines or at least persons staffed at a command on each tour who are "trained" or qualified to discharge and M4 - just in case.

but likely the thinking or the powers that be is - if youd have to get some specialized trained Cop there to resond with a carbine then you can just as well accomplish that by having ESU respond ( probably just as quickly ) and have 4-6 guys with MP5s and carbines respond ( which is the case now).

[sgtmac_46]

even were it possible to actually logistically train 40,000 ( well actually a little less with budget cuts and attrition from retirements) twice annually- its unlikely the city would consider having regular patrol officers to patrol with M4's - simply because of the FEAR of the image that some citizen was struck by a stray shot; let alone the resulting law suits that would surely ensue.

new york city is pretty densely populated so the thinking goes that having officers with the "ability" to fire higher powered weapons will keep Comptrollers and Mayors in additional cold sweats. I'm sure that actually does figure in to it a great deal......and like a lot of bureaucratic thinking, it's head-up-ass backwards. A semi-auto M4 ADD's precision to shots fired.

If there's going to be a shooting, it's safer for by-standers if the officer is shooting a carbine........moreover, it's a little known fact that a .223 round with the proper urban load penetrates LESS sheet rock than a 9mm, and has less potential for over penetration through a human body, while simultaneously being able to defeat body armor that 9mm cannot, and do so with a far greater degree of accuracy and control than available to a handgun.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=26

it took an incredible effort just for Cops to get Glocks - shotguns arent even in cop cars here.( IMO they should at least have that) There's another prime example of ass-backwards bureaucratic think........the New York trigger on the Glock 19......it's a 12 pound trigger! The 'theory' is that by making the trigger so HEAVY, they can make the public safer by preventing accidental discharges.....you have to REALLY, REALLY want to shoot someone with a 12 pound trigger.....not just kind of.

The flip side is that a 12 pound trigger makes it harder to shoot the gun ACCURATELY, increasingly the likelihood that if you DO have to fire, you'll miss.......and that miss has to hit something.

Finally, the same effect, i.e. 'No negligent discharges' could be accomplished far more effectively be teaching officers to KEEP THEIR FINGERS OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL THEY ARE READY TO FIRE!

Then get a normal 5.5 pound Glock trigger, and teach everyone how to shoot.



but likely the thinking or the powers that be is - if youd have to get some specialized trained Cop there to resond with a carbine then you can just as well accomplish that by having ESU respond ( probably just as quickly) and have 4-6 guys with MP5s and carbines respond ( which is the case now). That works great if it's a situation with some advanced warning. The reality, however, is that some of these situations play out in less than 2 or 3 minutes, with only the officers that are their on scene.......and by the time ESU/SWAT/SRT arrives, it's already what it is, and the outcome is pretty well decided.

One need only look at how long it took SWAT to respond to the North Hollywood shootout to realize what can happen between the first responding officer arrives and SWAT arrives.

[Vaard]

what i find most amazing is people have attitudes like this........


cops and firefighters dont offer to die for us?


i also know some emt workers that have risked their lives to save others as well.......

No, they don't.

[FidelisAdMortem]

I missed that in this thread, well I suppose that person is entitled to their opinion, but there are public images of first responders running in on 9/11 as everyone was running away.

[birddog1]

I'm sure that actually does figure in to it a great deal......and like a lot of bureaucratic thinking, it's head-up-ass backwards. A semi-auto M4 ADD's precision to shots fired.

If there's going to be a shooting, it's safer for by-standers if the officer is shooting a carbine........moreover, it's a little known fact that a .223 round with the proper urban load penetrates LESS sheet rock than a 9mm, and has less potential for over penetration through a human body, while simultaneously being able to defeat body armor that 9mm cannot, and do so with a far greater degree of accuracy and control than available to a handgun.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=26

There's another prime example of ass-backwards bureaucratic think........the New York trigger on the Glock 19......it's a 12 pound trigger! The 'theory' is that by making the trigger so HEAVY, they can make the public safer by preventing accidental discharges.....you have to REALLY, REALLY want to shoot someone with a 12 pound trigger.....not just kind of.

The flip side is that a 12 pound trigger makes it harder to shoot the gun ACCURATELY, increasingly the likelihood that if you DO have to fire, you'll miss.......and that miss has to hit something.

Finally, the same effect, i.e. 'No negligent discharges' could be accomplished far more effectively be teaching officers to KEEP THEIR FINGERS OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL THEY ARE READY TO FIRE!

Then get a normal 5.5 pound Glock trigger, and teach everyone how to shoot.


That works great if it's a situation with some advanced warning. The reality, however, is that some of these situations play out in less than 2 or 3 minutes, with only the officers that are their on scene.......and by the time ESU/SWAT/SRT arrives, it's already what it is, and the outcome is pretty well decided.

One need only look at how long it took SWAT to respond to the North Hollywood shootout to realize what can happen between the first responding officer arrives and SWAT arrives.

Doesn't Uncle Sugar have a program which loans or sells surplus military small arms to police departments? I know with the proper request they use to loan surplus M14s to some departments and thought that LA got some surplus M16s after the North Hollywood incident.

[DaGooseMon]

911 Worker Didn't Mention Guns To Police

http://www.wpxi.com/news/19114523/detail.html?treets=burg&tid=2656671002813&tml=burg_12pm&tmi=burg_12pm_1_11000104072009&ts=H


PITTSBURGH -- A 911 dispatcher was told a man had weapons, but didn't relay that information to Pittsburgh police officers who were gunned down when they went to his house to calm a fight he was having with his mother.

Allegheny County Chief of Emergency Services Robert Full said Richard Poplawski's mother told the dispatcher he had weapons, but that they were all "legal."

Full said, at that point, the dispatcher should have asked more questions about the guns, but didn't -- and further, police weren't told about the guns before they answered the call.


More at link.




Inexcusable. I can't even imagine the guilt 911 dispatcher is feeling. Talk about a major screw up.

[FidelisAdMortem]

In fairness to the operator, a police officer is trained and taught to go into every situation as if a firearm is in play.

I was taught that theres always one firearm everytime you respond, thats mine and at anytime it can be used against me.

I dont put any blame on this dispatcher, the blame game is for liberals.

[jimjames418]

In fairness to the operator, a police officer is trained and taught to go into every situation as if a firearm is in play.

I was taught that theres always one firearm everytime you respond, thats mine and at anytime it can be used against me.

I dont put any blame on this dispatcher, the blame game is for liberals.
I agree with you about the blame game, but this should be used as a teaching tool when training 9-1-1 operators. No matter how small or large, information in those situtations is a life and death matter.