The Official: Smoking Marijuana is NOT harmless thread.

[Livey]

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.
2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.


This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

Here is a new one that discusses psychosis and marijuana.

Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Mar. 26, 2009) — The daily consumption of cannabis predisposes to the appearance of psychosis and schizophrenia, and those episodes of psychosis which are fruit of this substance present certain specific characteristics, both before their appearance and in the clinical presentation of the psychosis.
This is one of the conclusions of the doctoral thesis "Neurodevelopment and environmental stress in initial psychosis: transversal analysis of the ESPIGAS study", carried out by researcher Miguel Ruiz Veguilla, of the Institute of Neurosciences of the University of Granada (Spain) and supervised by professors Manuel Gurpegui Fernández de Legaria and Jorge Cervilla Ballesteros. Ruiz Veguilla is also the person in charge fo the Unit of Development Neuropsychiatry of Jaén (Spain).
This work has studied the risk factors associated with schizophrenia, identifying and characterizing in depth those psychosis associated with a continual consumption of cannabis. They carried out a study with 92 subjects, 50 of which had developed a psychosis without presenting signs of an "abnormal neurodevelopment", this is, they had been doing well academically, they had a group of friends (no social isolation) and they presented a good motor coordination. In addition, these subjects did not show a family history of episodes of psychosis in first or second degree.
Identifying a new type of psychosis
The research work carried out by Miguel Ruiz Veguilla has identified a connection between cannabis consumption and psychosis in subjects with a good premorbid performance, and without signs of minor neurological alterations, which in his opinion might point out "a psychopathological way associated with psychosis in subjects with less predisposition".
Thus, 66% of the patients with psychosis who participated in the study and had a normal neurodevelopment admitted to have consumed cannabis daily or almost every day, whereas 43% of the participants with markers of an abnormal neurodevelopment (those already indicated: bad previous social and academic behaviour, a family history and a "clumsier" attitude when they carry out tasks of motor coordination and complex motor acts) were drug users too.
In the light of the results of his doctoral thesis, the researcher of the University of Granada says that, after having identified a type of psychosis where the environmental factor plays a more relevant role, we should now answer the question of which is the prognosis, in the long term, of those subjects with a good previous behaviour, whose psychosis is associated with a high consumption of cannabis.

The results of this research work have been published in the journals Schizophrenia Research and European Psychiatry. University of Granada (2009, March 26). Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia

[TheFallGuy]

Are you ready for the ad-hominems?

You might want to include the risk of testicular cancer:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/09/health.pot.cancer/index.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/138372.php
...The study results show that being a marijuana smoker at the time of diagnosis was linked to a 70 per cent higher risk of testicular cancer. For men who smoked marijuana at least once a week or who had been smoking it since their teens, the risk was about double that of a man who had never smoked it....

...Previous studies have already shown that regular and frequent use of marijuana affects the human endocrine and reproductive system, and in men this has been linked with reduced testosterone, lower sperm quality, and impotency. Male infertility and poor semen quality has also been associated with an increased risk of testicular cancer, so the researchers decided to investigate if there was a link between this type of cancer and use of marijuana....

Oh wait, that's all conspiracy! :eek:

[JimGP20]

This OP will be blasted by the pro ganja members here. I ain't one of 'em though. :cool:

[johnrocks]

OK, marijuana is harmless, daddy government, please save people from themselves, they can't make right decisions for themselves that concern their bodies , so you, "Uncle Sammy" need to do it for them. University of Granada,lol.

[Livey]

This OP will be blasted by the pro ganja members here. I ain't one of 'em though. :cool:


How could reputable scientific studies bother anyone? :think:

[Livey]

OK, marijuana is harmless, daddy government, please save people from themselves, they can't make right decisions for themselves that concern their bodies , so you, "Uncle Sammy" need to do it for them.

From my original post,

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

[JimGP20]

How could reputable scientific studies bother anyone? :think:


I don't even care about the studies. I would just like to be able to go to a concert and not have some ******* near me smoking that crap. I can't stand the smell of it.

[johnrocks]

From my original post,

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

OK, marijuana is bad for you in a lot of situations, inhale smoke deep into your lungs and holding it for several seconds, only an idiot would claim that is good for you. There are different ways of ingesting it though but hey, the University of Grenada study says it's bad and the prudent thing is for "Uncle Sammy" to step in and say, NO, you can't have this, it's baaaad for you"!!!!:naughty:

[Livey]

OK, marijuana is bad for you in a lot of situations, inhale smoke deep into your lungs and holding it for several seconds, only an idiot would claim that is good for you. There are different ways of ingesting it though but hey, the University of Grenada study says it's bad and the prudent thing is for "Uncle Sammy" to step in and say, NO, you can't have this, it's baaaad for you"!!!!:naughty:

From my original article,

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

[JimGP20]

OK, marijuana is bad for you in a lot of situations, inhale smoke deep into your lungs and holding it for several seconds, only an idiot would claim that is good for you. There are different ways of ingesting it though but hey, the University of Grenada study says it's bad and the prudent thing is for "Uncle Sammy" to step in and say, NO, you can't have this, it's baaaad for you"!!!!:naughty:


Yeah... we should legalize crack cocaine and all other drugs too. We don't want 'Ol Uncle Sam telling us that those things are bad.

[Livey]

Are you ready for the ad-hominems?

You might want to include the risk of testicular cancer:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/09/health.pot.cancer/index.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/138372.php


Oh wait, that's all conspiracy! :eek:

Thanks so much for you input concerning the health aspects!.


Marijuana Use Linked To Increased Risk Of Testicular Cancer. The researchers found that being a marijuana smoker at the time of diagnosis was associated with a 70 percent increased risk of testicular cancer. The risk was particularly elevated (about twice that of those who never smoked marijuana) for those who used marijuana at least weekly and/or who had long-term exposure to the substance beginning in adolescence.

The results also suggested that the association with marijuana use might be limited to nonseminoma, a fast-growing testicular malignancy that tends to strike early, between ages 20 and 35, and accounts for about 40 percent of all testicular-cancer cases.

Since the 1950s, the incidence of the two main cellular subtypes of testicular cancer, nonseminoma and seminoma – the more common, slower growing kind that strikes men in their 30s and 40s – has increased by 3 percent to 6 percent per year in the U.S., Canada, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. During the same time period, marijuana use in North America, Europe and Australia has risen accordingly, which is one of several factors that led the researchers to hypothesize a potential association.

"Our study is not the first to suggest that some aspect of a man's lifestyle or environment is a risk factor for testicular cancer, but it is the first that has looked at marijuana use," said author Stephen M. Schwartz, M.P.H., Ph.D., an epidemiologist and member of the Public Health Sciences Division at the Hutchinson Center.

Established risk factors for testicular cancer include a family history of the disease, undescended testes and abnormal testicular development. The disease is thought to begin in the womb, when some fetal germ cells (those that eventually make sperm in adulthood) fail to develop properly and become vulnerable to malignancy. Later, during adolescence and adulthood, it is thought that exposure to male sex hormones coaxes these cells to become cancerous.

"Just as the changing hormonal environment of adolescence and adulthood can trigger undifferentiated fetal germ cells to become cancerous, it has been suggested that puberty is a 'window of opportunity' during which lifestyle or environmental factors also can increase the risk of testicular cancer," said senior author Janet R. Daling, Ph.D., an epidemiologist who is also a member of the Center's Public Health Sciences Division. "This is consistent with the study's findings that the elevated risk of nonseminoma-type testicular cancer in particular was associated with marijuana use prior to age 18."

Chronic marijuana exposure has multiple adverse effects on the endocrine and reproductive systems, primarily decreased sperm quality. Other possible effects include decreased testosterone and male impotency. Because male infertility and poor semen quality also have been linked to an increased risk of testicular cancer, this further reinforced the researchers' hypothesis that marijuana use may be a risk factor for the disease.

Daling first got the idea to explore a possible association between marijuana use and testicular cancer about eight years ago, when she attended a talk by a physician at the University of Washington who presented findings that only two organs, the brain and the testes, had receptors for tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the main psychoactive component of marijuana. Since then, a number of other sites have been found to contain THC receptors, including the heart, uterus, spleen and immune-system cells.

The male reproductive system also naturally produces a cannabinoid-like chemical that is thought to have a protective effect against cancer. The authors speculate that marijuana use may disrupt this anti-tumor effect, which could be another explanation for the possible link between marijuana and increased risk of testicular cancer.

For the population-based, case-control study, Daling, Schwartz and colleagues interviewed 369 Seattle-Puget Sound-area men, ages 18 to 44, who had been diagnosed with testicular cancer about their history of marijuana use. For comparison purposes they also assessed marijuana use among 979 randomly selected age- and geography-matched healthy controls. (More than 90 percent of the cases and 80 percent of the controls in the study were Hispanic or non-Hispanic white men, due to the fact that testicular cancer is very rare in African-Americans, and because the Seattle-Puget Sound region has a relatively small African-American population.)

Study participants were also asked about other habits that may be correlated with marijuana use, including smoking and alcohol consumption. Even after statistically controlling for these lifestyle factors, as well as other risk factors, such as first-degree family history of testicular cancer and a history of undescended testes, marijuana use emerged as a significant, independent risk factor for testicular cancer.

The researchers emphasize that their results are not definitive, but rather open a door to more research questions.

"Our study is the first inkling that marijuana use may be associated with testicular cancer, and we still have a lot of unanswered questions," Schwartz said, such as why marijuana appears to be associated with only one type of testicular cancer. "We need to conduct additional research to see whether the association can be observed in other populations, and whether measurement of molecular markers connected to the pathways through which marijuana could influence testicular cancer development helps clarify any association that exists," he said.

In future studies the researchers plan to measure the expression of cannabinoid receptors in both seminomatous and nonseminomatous tumor tissue from the cases in the study, and to see whether variation in the genes for the receptors and other molecules involved in cannabinoid signaling influences the risk of testicular cancer.

In the meantime, Schwartz said, "What young men should know is that first, we know very little about the long-term health consequences of marijuana smoking, especially heavy marijuana smoking; and second, our study provides some evidence that testicular cancer could be one adverse consequence," he said. "So, in the absence of more certain information, a decision to smoke marijuana recreationally means that one is taking a chance on one's future health."

The National Cancer Institute, the National Institute on Drug Abuse and funds from the Hutchinson Center supported this research, which also involved researchers from the University of Washington, Vanderbilt University and Cincinnati Children's Research Foundation

ScienceDaily (Feb. 13, 2009) — Frequent and/or long-term marijuana use may significantly increase a man's risk of developing the most aggressive type of testicular cancer, according to a study by researchers at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. The study results were published online Feb. 9 in the journal Cancer.

[CID_0687]

Yeah... we should legalize crack cocaine and all other drugs too. We don't want 'Ol Uncle Sam telling us that those things are bad.
There's a difference though...Cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, etc...are extremely harmful to the body, they can lead to serious mental problems and such.

Marijuana on the other hand is really less harmful, in the long term, than alcohol is...

I don't smoke it, haven't since I was in high school, and only did it a few times then...but I don't have a problem with anyone that does...I like to drink, that's my way of relaxing and mellowing out...

I do agree with you that the smell is horrific though. :D

[JimGP20]

There's a difference though...Cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, etc...are extremely harmful to the body, they can lead to serious mental problems and such.

Marijuana on the other hand is really less harmful, in the long term, than alcohol is...

I don't smoke it, haven't since I was in high school, and only did it a few times then...but I don't have a problem with anyone that does...I like to drink, that's my way of relaxing and mellowing out...

I do agree with you that the smell is horrific though. :D

If folks had the common courtesy to consider the people around them, I would agree that it would be fine, but they don't, so it doesn't break my heart that it's illegal. I would be fine to making it illegal only in public.

[TheFallGuy]

Smoking marijuana also exposes the person to greater amounts of tar in addition to carcinogenic compounds that are generated from incompletely combusted organic material--PAHs. Additionally, the method that marijuana is smoked (inhale, hold, hold, hold) tremendously increases the contact time for these carcinogenic compounds.

[Livey]

Smoking marijuana also exposes the person to greater amounts of tar in addition to carcinogenic compounds that are generated from incompletely combusted organic material--PAHs. Additionally, the method that marijuana is smoked (inhale, hold, hold, hold) tremendously increases the contact time for these carcinogenic compounds.

Are you a Doctor or biologist by chance? I am sure that people will suggest that smoking is not the only delivery system, but importantly it is the most commonly used.

[johnrocks]

Yeah... we should legalize crack cocaine and all other drugs too. We don't want 'Ol Uncle Sam telling us that those things are bad.

Yep, we need guidance from our government, your right, personal responsibility is so overblown.

[JimGP20]

Yep, we need guidance from our government, your right, personal responsibility is so overblown.


Personal responsibility is the goal post. Too bad most people can't even make it to midfield.

[CID_0687]

If folks had the common courtesy to consider the people around them, I would agree that it would be fine, but they don't, so it doesn't break my heart that it's illegal. I would be fine to making it illegal only in public.
I'm with you...Make a public intoxication charge out of it, no reason that couldn't be done...Most public places already have tobacco smoking bans...but there's always gonna be an ******* at a concert smoking a cigarette or pot.

[johnrocks]

I'm with you...Make a public intoxication charge out of it, no reason that couldn't be done...Most public places already have tobacco smoking bans...but there's always gonna be an ******* at a concert smoking a cigarette or pot.

Like they do now and it's illegal. I don't have a problem with the public intoxication laws, driving while under the influence and things of that nature however smoking in your own home amounts to having a glass of wine or a beer, as for as restaurants go, I kinda think private property owners such as the business owners should be allowed to make their own rules here.

[TheFallGuy]

Are you a Doctor or biologist by chance? I am sure that people will suggest that smoking is not the only delivery system, but importantly it is the most commonly used.

I've done research on organic material and treatment of petro-chemical wastes. Smoking is not the only method to get the high. However, it is the most efficient and effective mode for getting the THC into the system. But it also exposes a person to the carcinogens (PAHs) as well as the greater amounts of tar.

Edit to restate: Smoking is one of the more effective, efficient ways of getting THC into the system. There are more efficient methods such as injection, but that method is not, as far as I know, used by dopers.

[TheFallGuy]

Yep, we need guidance from our government, your right, personal responsibility is so overblown.

Drug abuse and personal responsibility are antipodean to each other.

[CID_0687]

Like they do now and it's illegal. I don't have a problem with the public intoxication laws, driving while under the influence and things of that nature however smoking in your own home amounts to having a glass of wine or a beer, as for as restaurants go, I kinda think private property owners such as the business owners should be allowed to make their own rules here.
The three cities in my county in AL passed a law saying smoking should be left up to the business owner...Most of the owners did change to non-smoking, but there are still a few of the smaller diners where smoking is still allowed.

I think that's how it should be.

And if marijuana was legal I'm sure there would be some "Cafes" like they have in Amsterdam pop up...and that's fine, it's private property...you can find a bar on almost every street corner....so why not some Cafes?

I don't think there will ever be a way to prevent smoking of any kind from happening in a huge public event like a concert or a ball game though, unless the facility has enough security to police ever aisle ever few minutes...and that ain't gonna happen.

[Livey]

This may be interesting to those of you with teens.

The research was supported by the National Institute on Drug Abuse
(NIDA).

Marijuana Use Takes Toll On Adolescent Brain Function, Research Finds


Brain imaging shows that the brains of teens that use marijuana are working harder than the brains of their peers who abstain from the drug.

At the 2008 annual meeting of the American Academy of Pediatrics in Boston, Mass., Krista Lisdahl Medina, a University of Cincinnati assistant professor of psychology, presented collaborative research with Susan Tapert, associate professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego.

Medina’s Oct. 12 presentation, titled, “Neuroimaging Marijuana Use and its Effects on Cognitive Function,” suggests that chronic, heavy marijuana use during adolescence – a critical period of ongoing brain development – is associated with poorer performance on thinking tasks, including slower psychomotor speed and poorer complex attention, verbal memory and planning ability. Medina says that’s evident even after a month of stopping marijuana use. She says that while recent findings suggest partial recovery of verbal memory functioning within the first three weeks of adolescent abstinence from marijuana, complex attention skills continue to be affected.

“Not only are their thinking abilities worse, their brain activation to cognitive tasks is abnormal. The tasks are fairly easy, such as remembering the location of objects, and they may be able to complete the tasks, but what we see is that adolescent marijuana users are using more of their parietal and frontal cortices to complete the tasks. Their brain is working harder than it should,” Medina says.

She adds that recent findings suggest females may be at increased risk for the neurocognitive consequences of marijuana use during adolescence, as studies found that teenage girls had marginally larger prefrontal cortex (PFC) volumes compared to girls who did not smoke marijuana. The larger PFC volumes were associated with poorer executive functions of the brain in these teens, such as planning, decision-making or staying focused on a task.

Medina says adolescence is a critical time of brain development and that the findings are yet another warning for adolescents who experiment with drug use. She says more study is needed to see if the thinking abilities of adolescent marijuana users improve following longer periods of abstinence from the drug. “Longitudinal studies following youth over time are needed to rule out the influence of pre-existing differences before teens begin using marijuana, and to examine whether abstinence from marijuana results in recovery of cognitive and brain functioning,” says Medina.

The research was supported by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).

[johnrocks]

Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse than Marijuana

It appears that when it comes to teen brain development, parents should be more worried about alcohol abuse than marijuana abuse. Two recent studies have been published showing that alcohol -- a legal substance (though not legal for teens in the U.S.) -- is considered more dangerous than marijuana, which is illegal in many countries.

One study has been published in the U.S., in the journal Clinical EEG and neuroscience: official journal of the EEG and Clinical Neuroscience Society (ENCS), and shows that alcohol has a stronger effect on teen brain development than marijuana. The other is a study published in the Lancet, offering the results of substance classification by a number of U.K. professionals, purporting that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana to individuals and to society.
http://www.physorg.com/news157280425.html

[Livey]

Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse than Marijuana

It appears that when it comes to teen brain development, parents should be more worried about alcohol abuse than marijuana abuse. Two recent studies have been published showing that alcohol -- a legal substance (though not legal for teens in the U.S.) -- is considered more dangerous than marijuana, which is illegal in many countries.

One study has been published in the U.S., in the journal Clinical EEG and neuroscience: official journal of the EEG and Clinical Neuroscience Society (ENCS), and shows that alcohol has a stronger effect on teen brain development than marijuana. The other is a study published in the Lancet, offering the results of substance classification by a number of U.K. professionals, purporting that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana to individuals and to society.
http://www.physorg.com/news157280425.html


Defending bad behavior with bad behavior is not helpful to anyone. Alcohol and marijuana are bad for the brains of teens.


This may be interesting to those of you with teens.

The research was supported by the National Institute on Drug Abuse
(NIDA).

Marijuana Use Takes Toll On Adolescent Brain Function, Research Finds


Brain imaging shows that the brains of teens that use marijuana are working harder than the brains of their peers who abstain from the drug.

At the 2008 annual meeting of the American Academy of Pediatrics in Boston, Mass., Krista Lisdahl Medina, a University of Cincinnati assistant professor of psychology, presented collaborative research with Susan Tapert, associate professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego.

Medina’s Oct. 12 presentation, titled, “Neuroimaging Marijuana Use and its Effects on Cognitive Function,” suggests that chronic, heavy marijuana use during adolescence – a critical period of ongoing brain development – is associated with poorer performance on thinking tasks, including slower psychomotor speed and poorer complex attention, verbal memory and planning ability. Medina says that’s evident even after a month of stopping marijuana use. She says that while recent findings suggest partial recovery of verbal memory functioning within the first three weeks of adolescent abstinence from marijuana, complex attention skills continue to be affected.

“Not only are their thinking abilities worse, their brain activation to cognitive tasks is abnormal. The tasks are fairly easy, such as remembering the location of objects, and they may be able to complete the tasks, but what we see is that adolescent marijuana users are using more of their parietal and frontal cortices to complete the tasks. Their brain is working harder than it should,” Medina says.

She adds that recent findings suggest females may be at increased risk for the neurocognitive consequences of marijuana use during adolescence, as studies found that teenage girls had marginally larger prefrontal cortex (PFC) volumes compared to girls who did not smoke marijuana. The larger PFC volumes were associated with poorer executive functions of the brain in these teens, such as planning, decision-making or staying focused on a task.

Medina says adolescence is a critical time of brain development and that the findings are yet another warning for adolescents who experiment with drug use. She says more study is needed to see if the thinking abilities of adolescent marijuana users improve following longer periods of abstinence from the drug. “Longitudinal studies following youth over time are needed to rule out the influence of pre-existing differences before teens begin using marijuana, and to examine whether abstinence from marijuana results in recovery of cognitive and brain functioning,” says Medina.

The research was supported by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).

[Samm]

From my original post,

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

OK, marijuana is bad for you in a lot of situations, inhale smoke deep into your lungs and holding it for several seconds, only an idiot would claim that is good for you. There are different ways of ingesting it though but hey, the University of Grenada study says it's bad and the prudent thing is for "Uncle Sammy" to step in and say, NO, you can't have this, it's baaaad for you"!!!!:naughty:

Face it... life is dangerous to your health. If Uncle Sammy tried to protect us from everything that might harm us he would have no time to do anything else. ... and even then, he would fail. To arrest people and throw them into jail on the pretense that they are protecting us from ourselves totally defies logic and good sense.

[johnrocks]

Pitt Research
Indicates Teen Marijuana Use Does
Not Predict Drug or Alcohol Abuse

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:t4yqlDeAc44J:www.pitt.edu/~ugr/Hrych2.pdf+University+of+Pittsburgh+study+marijuan a+not+a+gateway+drug&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Of course we will continue asking "Uncle Sammy" to regulate bad personal behavior and then get all bent out of shape when THEIR vice is regulated,censored or outlawed.

[johnrocks]

Despite popular belief, a new study shows that people who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk of developing lung cancer.

It seems even heavy, long-term marijuana users do not appear to increase the risk of head and neck cancers, such as cancer of the tongue, mouth, throat, or esophagus.

Senior researcher, Donald Tashkin, M.D., Professor of Medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA in Los Angeles says the findings were a surprise as they expected to find that a history of heavy marijuana use would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana.

The study looked at people in Los Angeles County - 611 who developed lung cancer, 601 who developed cancer of the head or neck regions, and 1,040 people without cancer who were matched on age, gender and neighborhood.

The researchers used the University of Southern California Tumor Registry, which is notified as soon as a patient in Los Angeles County receives a diagnosis of cancer.

The study was limited to people under age 60 as those born prior to 1940, were unlikely to be exposed to marijuana use during their teens and 20s - the time of peak marijuana use.

Dr. Tashkin says people who were exposed to marijuana use in their youth are only now getting to the age when cancer typically starts to develop.

The participants were questioned about lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco and alcohol, as well as other drugs, their diet, occupation, family history of cancer and socioeconomic status.

Dr. Tashkin says the subjects' reported use of marijuana was similar to that found in other surveys.

The heaviest smokers in the study had smoked more than 22,000 marijuana cigarettes, or joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 to 22,000 joints.

Even these smokers did not have an increased risk of developing cancer and people who smoked more marijuana were not at any increased risk compared with those who smoked less marijuana or none at all.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=18122

Yet my Dad died from (I guess) lung cancer from Winstons and Camels.

[Samm]

Smoking marijuana also exposes the person to greater amounts of tar in addition to carcinogenic compounds that are generated from incompletely combusted organic material--PAHs. Additionally, the method that marijuana is smoked (inhale, hold, hold, hold) tremendously increases the contact time for these carcinogenic compounds.

I presume you are comparing marijuana smoking to tobacco smoking. In that, you are correct... if you limit the comparison to each puff. But a typical marijuana smoker only needs to take two or three tokes to obtain hours of the desired effect, whereas a typical tobacco smoker takes hundreds of "tokes" over the full course of the day to obtain and maintain his "high." Clearly, the smoking of tobacco is far more dangerous for the lungs than smoking pot.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out, eating marijuana produces a more level sustained high without affecting the lungs at all. And I have never seen any credible study that suggests that eating minor quantities of marijuana causes any form of physiological health problems.

[Livey]

Face it... life is dangerous to your health. If Uncle Sammy tried to protect us from everything that might harm us he would have no time to do anything else. ... and even then, he would fail. To arrest people and throw them into jail on the pretense that they are protecting us from ourselves totally defies logic and good sense.

From my original post,

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

Thanks!

[CID_0687]

The average cigarette smoker smokes what? 1-2 packs a day?

I smoked for years and I averaged about 1.5 packs a day.

A heavy marijuana smoker has what? 3-4 joints a day? Most only have 1 a day or less than one a day...even if my numbers are off here...no body smokes 20-40 joints a day, which is how much the average cigarette smoker has.

There's no way that marijuana users can be more prone to lung cancer than tobacco smokers.

[johnrocks]

Active component of marijuana has anti-cancer effects New research, to be published in the UCLA Journal...
http://search.ctrl.ucla.edu/texis/search?pr=healthsciences-dgsom&query=marijuana&x=13&y=14

[Dem]

I'm assuming we can also post the medical benefits of Marijuana.

http://www.physorg.com/news154280470.html
Now scientists have discovered how a compound in cannabis can help cells to function in our bodies, and aid recovery after a damaging event.

http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=617951
Cannabis-Linked Cell Receptor Might Help Prevent Colon Cancer
Findings may serve as new path for better treatment of disease, study suggests

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/hscout/2009/04/01/hscout625697.html
New research out of Spain suggests that THC -- the active ingredient in marijuana -- appears to prompt the death of brain cancer cells.

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE5307VK20090401
The active ingredient in marijuana appears to reduce tumor growth, according to a Spanish study published on Wednesday.

Other research has shown benefits, such as staving off Alzheimer's, and many doctors view THC as a valuable way to treat weight loss associated with AIDS, and nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy in cancer patients.


http://www.physorg.com/news146320102.html
The more research they do, the more evidence Ohio State University scientists find that specific elements of marijuana can be good for the aging brain by reducing inflammation there and possibly even stimulating the formation of new brain cells.

[Livey]

Active component of marijuana has anti-cancer effects New research, to be published in the UCLA Journal...
http://search.ctrl.ucla.edu/texis/search?pr=healthsciences-dgsom&query=marijuana&x=13&y=14

From my original post,

2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.

[johnrocks]

From my original post,

2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.

I can only surmise that few thinks it is harmless at all. Heck, too much oxygen can kill.:lol:

[Livey]

I'm assuming we can also post the medical benefits of Marijuana.

http://www.physorg.com/news154280470.html



From my original post,

2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.

[Livey]

I can only surmise that few thinks it is harmless at all. Heck, too much oxygen can kill.:lol:

Then why do you have such a problem with ONE thread discussing the ill effects of smoking marijuana?

[uncledoom]

I don't think smoking in general is absolutely harmless. Just like anything else, it effects people differently.

[Livey]

The average cigarette smoker smokes what? 1-2 packs a day?

I smoked for years and I averaged about 1.5 packs a day.

A heavy marijuana smoker has what? 3-4 joints a day? Most only have 1 a day or less than one a day...even if my numbers are off here...no body smokes 20-40 joints a day, which is how much the average cigarette smoker has.

There's no way that marijuana users can be more prone to lung cancer than tobacco smokers.

From my original post,

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical

[johnrocks]

Then why do you have such a problem with ONE thread discussing the ill effects of smoking marijuana?

I don't have a problem with it, if you want JUST the negatives discussed then carry on. Chat with you in other threads.:hug:

[Livey]

Here is a recent study concering lung destruction and marijuana smokers.

Marijuana Smokers Face Rapid Lung Destruction -- As Much As 20 Years Ahead Of Tobacco Smokers


(Jan. 27, 2008) — A new study finds that the development of bullous lung disease occurs in marijuana smokers approximately 20 years earlier than tobacco smokers.

A condition often caused by exposure to toxic chemicals or long-term exposure to tobacco smoke, bullous lung disease (also known as bullae) is a condition where air trapped in the lungs causes obstruction to breathing and eventual destruction of the lungs.

At present, about 10% of young adults and 1% of the adult population smoke marijuana regularly. Researchers find that the mean age of marijuana-smoking patients with lung problems was 41, as opposed to the average age of 65 years for tobacco-smoking patients.

The study "Bullous Lung Disease due to Marijuana" also finds that the bullous lung disease can easily go undetected as patients suffering from the disease may show normal chest X-rays and lung functions. High-resolution CT scans revealed severe asymmetrical, variably sized bullae in the patients studied. However, chest X-rays and lung functions were normal in half of them.

Lead author Dr. Matthew Naughton says, "What is outstanding about this study is the relatively young ages of the lung disease patients, as well as the lack of abnormality on chest X-rays and lung functions in nearly half of the patients we tested."

He added, "Marijuana is inhaled as extremely hot fumes to the peak inspiration and held for as long as possible before slow exhalation. This predisposes to greater damage to the lungs and makes marijuana smokers are more prone to bullous disease as compared to cigarette smokers."

Patients who smoke marijuana inhale more and hold their breath four times longer than cigarette smokers. It is the breathing manoeuvres of marijuana smokers that serve to increase the concentration and pulmonary deposition of inhaled particulate matter – resulting in greater and more rapid lung destruction.

This paper is published in the January 2008 issue of Respirology.

[Dem]

I don't understand the point of this thread if we aren't allowed to discuss the benefits as well.

Everything has negative effects. It's why we have that old adage, "Everything in moderation".

[Dem]

Livey, could you post the links where you are getting your info from, and not just the contents?

[CID_0687]

From my original post,

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical
I get it, so you're only wanting to have a thread full of head nods and "I agree.."

Don't want to discuss or debate the issue...you're just wanting a pat on the back, am I reading that right?

[johnrocks]

I get it, so you're only wanting to have a thread full of head nods and "I agree.."

Don't want to discuss or debate the issue...you're just wanting a pat on the back, am I reading that right?

Yep, just like government "assistance"...a lot of strings attached.:lol:

[johnrocks]

A name we can all trust.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196678,00.html
Marijuana Does Not Raise Lung Cancer Risk

While a clear increase in cancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.

Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.

The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.

“We know that there are as many or more carcinogens and co-carcinogens in marijuana smoke as in cigarettes,” researcher Donald Tashkin, MD, of UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine tells WebMD. “But we did not find any evidence for an increase in cancer risk for even heavy marijuana smoking.” Carcinogens are substances that cause cancer.

Tashkin presented the findings today at The American Thoracic Society’s 102nd International Conference, held in San Diego.

[Livey]

Livey, could you post the links where you are getting your info from, and not just the contents?

Absolutely, sorry... Give me a minute, the phone is ringing off the hook.

[Wndrtch]

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.
2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.


This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

Here is a new one that discusses psychosis and marijuana.

Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Mar. 26, 2009) — The daily consumption of cannabis predisposes to the appearance of psychosis and schizophrenia, and those episodes of psychosis which are fruit of this substance present certain specific characteristics, both before their appearance and in the clinical presentation of the psychosis.
This is one of the conclusions of the doctoral thesis "Neurodevelopment and environmental stress in initial psychosis: transversal analysis of the ESPIGAS study", carried out by researcher Miguel Ruiz Veguilla, of the Institute of Neurosciences of the University of Granada (Spain) and supervised by professors Manuel Gurpegui Fernández de Legaria and Jorge Cervilla Ballesteros. Ruiz Veguilla is also the person in charge fo the Unit of Development Neuropsychiatry of Jaén (Spain).
This work has studied the risk factors associated with schizophrenia, identifying and characterizing in depth those psychosis associated with a continual consumption of cannabis. They carried out a study with 92 subjects, 50 of which had developed a psychosis without presenting signs of an "abnormal neurodevelopment", this is, they had been doing well academically, they had a group of friends (no social isolation) and they presented a good motor coordination. In addition, these subjects did not show a family history of episodes of psychosis in first or second degree.
Identifying a new type of psychosis
The research work carried out by Miguel Ruiz Veguilla has identified a connection between cannabis consumption and psychosis in subjects with a good premorbid performance, and without signs of minor neurological alterations, which in his opinion might point out "a psychopathological way associated with psychosis in subjects with less predisposition".
Thus, 66% of the patients with psychosis who participated in the study and had a normal neurodevelopment admitted to have consumed cannabis daily or almost every day, whereas 43% of the participants with markers of an abnormal neurodevelopment (those already indicated: bad previous social and academic behaviour, a family history and a "clumsier" attitude when they carry out tasks of motor coordination and complex motor acts) were drug users too.
In the light of the results of his doctoral thesis, the researcher of the University of Granada says that, after having identified a type of psychosis where the environmental factor plays a more relevant role, we should now answer the question of which is the prognosis, in the long term, of those subjects with a good previous behaviour, whose psychosis is associated with a high consumption of cannabis.

The results of this research work have been published in the journals Schizophrenia Research and European Psychiatry. University of Granada (2009, March 26). Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia

:rolleyes:

Ok, so what you're saying is, you don't want to dabate, you want to stand there and preach to us about how bad Mary-J is. Forget any logical arguement to support the "Halfling-weed", you just want to grand-stand and hear yourself talk (or read, as the case may be).

I think this is the wrong venue for such piety. You should try your hand at writing Op-Eds. You don't have to defend yourself writing one of those.

Generally speaking, it's not wise to burn and inhale anything.

:hand:

[Livey]

A name we can all trust.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196678,00.html
Marijuana Does Not Raise Lung Cancer Risk

While a clear increase in cancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.

Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.

The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.

“We know that there are as many or more carcinogens and co-carcinogens in marijuana smoke as in cigarettes,” researcher Donald Tashkin, MD, of UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine tells WebMD. “But we did not find any evidence for an increase in cancer risk for even heavy marijuana smoking.” Carcinogens are substances that cause cancer.

Tashkin presented the findings today at The American Thoracic Society’s 102nd International Conference, held in San Diego.

Interesting, Thanks John.

[Samm]

From my original post,

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

Thanks!

I can read and retain what I read as well as the next person; you don't have to keep reminding me or anyone else what you posted in the OP. :neutral:

You may want to confine the discussion to clinical facts regarding the physical effects of marijuana on the human body, but the broader (political/social) discussion is equally valid with regard to the topic as stated in the thread title. Being arrested and jailed is harmful to humans too and the relative harm of that, in my opinion, is far worse than any physical harm directly caused by the herb itself.

[Samm]

Active component of marijuana has anti-cancer effects New research, to be published in the UCLA Journal...
http://search.ctrl.ucla.edu/texis/search?pr=healthsciences-dgsom&query=marijuana&x=13&y=14

The active component of marijuana also has a greatly beneficial effect for those who already have cancer; those who are under treatment. THC counters the nausea that chemotherapy and radiation can cause (which is very detrimental to proper nutritional intake) and it eases the discomfort and pain often associated with the cancer itself.

No link... everyone already knows this. :neutral:

[Samm]

Then why do you have such a problem with ONE thread discussing the ill effects of smoking marijuana?

Could it be that you are not happy that preponderance of evidence is that the beneficial effects of marijuana outweigh the detrimental effects?

If you are honestly wanting to have a meaningful discussion about the harm marijuana causes, you must factor in the good that it does as well.

[Livey]

:rolleyes:

Ok, so what you're saying is, you don't want to dabate, you want to stand there and preach to us about how bad Mary-J is. Forget any logical arguement to support the "Halfling-weed", you just want to grand-stand and hear yourself talk (or read, as the case may be).

I think this is the wrong venue for such piety. You should try your hand at writing Op-Eds. You don't have to defend yourself writing one of those.

Generally speaking, it's not wise to burn and inhale anything.

:hand:

I can't seem to think of anything more 'logical' than very current scientific research, but that is just me. I have always had a strong interest in nutrition and health issues. I was trying to steer the thread in a health related direction as apposed to political, such as whether it should be legal or not. This is why I put it under general topics. I didn't think that sharing current scientific research was considered 'grandstanding'. Has it occurred to any of you that some parents of children and teens may be interested in any harmful effects of substances that are frequently used? Maybe some of the adult frequent smokers would be interested in any new research on the harms of their behavior. I often use knowledge about the unhealthy aspects of things to help me moderate my own behavior. Simply stating harmful side effects of smoking a substance does not necessarily mean that I have a political agenda. It could just mean that I am looking at something through a health related lens. I am apologize if I am not making myself clear. Like I said in my original post,


1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.
2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.


This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

[Samm]

I get it, so you're only wanting to have a thread full of head nods and "I agree.."

Don't want to discuss or debate the issue...you're just wanting a pat on the back, am I reading that right?

Kind of reminds you of the old "justice system" where the accused was not allowed to question witnesses or even tell his side of the story. ;)

[Livey]

Could it be that you are not happy that preponderance of evidence is that the beneficial effects of marijuana outweigh the detrimental effects?

If you are honestly wanting to have a meaningful discussion about the harm marijuana causes, you must factor in the good that it does as well.

As I stated in my original post,

2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.

Samm, I am trying to narrow my topic to the smoking of marijuana.

[Livey]

:rolleyes:


I think this is the wrong venue for such piety. You should try your hand at writing Op-Eds. You don't have to defend yourself writing one of those.

Generally speaking, it's not wise to burn and inhale anything.

:hand:

I don't have to defend a scientific study. It simply is what it is.

[Dreamy]

Health studies..pffft

Is coffee good or bad for us this week? Sorry people but these numerous dimestore studies are bad for my health.

[Dreamy]

I can't seem to think of anything more 'logical' than very current scientific research, but that is just me. I have always had a strong interest in nutrition and health issues. I was trying to steer the thread in a health related direction as apposed to political, such as whether it should be legal or not. This is why I put it under general topics. I didn't think that sharing current scientific research was considered 'grandstanding'. Has it occurred to any of you that some parents of children and teens may be interested in any harmful effects of substances that are frequently used? Maybe some of the adult frequent smokers would be interested in any new research on the harms of their behavior. I often use knowledge about the unhealthy aspects of things to help me moderate my own behavior. Simply stating harmful side effects of smoking a substance does not necessarily mean that I have a political agenda. It could just mean that I am looking at something through a health related lens. I am apologize if I am not making myself clear. Like I said in my original post,


1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.
2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.


This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

I have a question. You admit many things in our world are bad for us yet we indulge. Why the need to focus on this one product? Be very frightened about the things no one talks about like whats in our food and our cosmetics like shampoo. Be very fearful of FDA approved drugs that have harmed or killed others.

Sorry but to make this thread scope so narrow is not very productive on a forum where we are here to debate and discuss. What's to discuss under your rules? Maybe you need a blog to post what information you believe to be true.

Yes MJ has dangers and risks. Big deal. Everytime I wash my hair I am at risk and I do that daily.

[Livey]

Kind of reminds you of the old "justice system" where the accused was not allowed to question witnesses or even tell his side of the story. ;)

In the future, I am simply going to post/share about any extremely current and interesting studies that I come across concerning the negative health effects of smoking marijuana. You are completely free to post anything you like. You are not some victim of tyrannical posting rules.

[johnrocks]

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,6223
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

[dannyg79]

I have a question. You admit many things in our world are bad for us yet we indulge. Why the need to focus on this one product? Be very frightened about the things no one talks about like whats in our food and our cosmetics like shampoo. Be very fearful of FDA approved drugs that have harmed or killed others.

Sorry but to make this thread scope so narrow is not very productive on a forum where we are here to debate and discuss. What's to discuss under your rules? Maybe you need a blog to post what information you believe to be true.

Yes MJ has dangers and risks. Big deal. Everytime I wash my hair I am at risk and I do that daily.

Absolutely. You can purchase more dangerous drugs over the counter than MJ, and our food is basically garbage. Yet, no one seems to care about these types of things, despite the fact we all eat daily and pharmaceuticals are much more prevelant than pot.

[CaptainPike]

Pot smokers just can't wait to be treated like tobacco smokers.

[Dreamy]

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,6223
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

Reefer Madness has killed no one?:eh:

[Livey]

I have a question. You admit many things in our world are bad for us yet we indulge. Why the need to focus on this one product? Be very frightened about the things no one talks about like whats in our food and our cosmetics like shampoo. Be very fearful of FDA approved drugs that have harmed or killed others.

Sorry to make this thread scope so narrow is not very productive.

Yes MJ has dangers and risks. Big deal. Everytime I wash my hair I am at risk and I do that daily.

I understand what you are saying. I know that women ingest a frightening amount of cosmetics in a lifetime. I think it is like 6 pounds of lipstick on average. :eek:.. That could be an entire topic in itself.

I think focusing on smoking MJ and the physical danger is quite relevant and not too narrow. Knowledge is good. I guess we will have to agree to disagree :)

I tend to disagree with the 'everything is bad so marijuana is okay argument'. Supporting bad behavior with other bad behavior doesn't seem to be helpful. I will eat a doughnut knowing it is bad, but I will usually refrain from eating three of them because of the knowledge I have about high cholesterol. The more we know the better our odds of living longer (if that is what you want).

[Livey]

Absolutely. You can purchase more dangerous drugs over the counter than MJ, and our food is basically garbage. Yet, no one seems to care about these types of things, despite the fact we all eat daily and pharmaceuticals are much more prevelant than pot.

As I stated in my original post,

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.

I do care about the harmful things you mentioned. I do understand you point. However, I don't think defending bad behavior with bad behavior is helpful. I do think that starting a thread about the dangers of misusing pharmaceuticals would be incredibly interesting.

[Dreamy]

I understand what you are saying. I know that women ingest a frightening amount of cosmetics in a lifetime. I think it is like 6 pounds of lipstick on average. :eek:.. That could be an entire topic in itself.

I think focusing on smoking MJ and the physical danger is quite relevant and not too narrow. Knowledge is good. I guess we will have to agree to disagree :)

I tend to disagree with the 'everything is bad so marijuana is okay argument'. Supporting bad behavior with other bad behavior doesn't seem to be helpful. I will eat a doughnut knowing it is bad, but I will usually refrain from eating three of them because of the knowledge I have about high cholesterol. The more we know the better our odds of living longer (if that is what you want).

Knowledge is good. Why however are some of these studies contradictory from year to year and why are we not getting the knowledge about truly harmful products MOST people use? Most people do not smoke pot. But we all eat. Let me tell you what concerns me. The stuff they are not telling us. Why do so many kids have autism today? Allergies? Basic shampoo is troubling? Plastic serving dishes like Tupperware and Rubbermaid. What happens after years of using these products?

Food alone would take another thread all by itself.

MJ might cause some health risks. You bet. User and buyers beware but damn where are all those warnings for the FDA drugs? Right on the labels but yet they are approved.

Even ones like Viiox. Dangers were revealed AFTER people had used it. Thnaks FDA for nothing.:rolleyes:

[dannyg79]

As I stated in my original post,

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.

I do care about the harmful things you mentioned. I do understand you point. However, I don't think defending bad behavior with bad behavior is helpful. I do think that starting a thread about the dangers of misusing pharmaceuticals would be incredibly interesting.

Oh come on. The only reason the health benefits of pot are discussed are political reasons. You cannot avoid that aspect of it, no matter how much you want to try. Conversley, the only reason many pharmaceuticals are legal is because of lobby groups and big money in DC. You cannot discuss pot without discussing the legality of it, and without comparing it to other legal substances, and you cannot accurately discuss many legal substances without discussing the role of lobby groups.

[Samm]

As I stated in my original post,

2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.

Samm, I am trying to narrow my topic to the smoking of marijuana.

No... you are trying to narrow the topic to the detrimental effects of smoking marijuana. As someone has pointed out, that is like trying to narrow a discussion on the atmosphere to the detrimental effects of oxygen. It produces a meaningless discussion.

[johnrocks]

Reefer Madness has killed no one?:eh:

:cool:

[Samm]

In the future, I am simply going to post/share about any extremely current and interesting studies that I come across concerning the negative health effects of smoking marijuana. You are completely free to post anything you like. You are not some victim of tyrannical posting rules.

:)) :)) :)) Methinks you are in the wrong Forum. ;)

[captusa]

OK, marijuana is harmless, daddy government, please save people from themselves, they can't make right decisions for themselves that concern their bodies , so you, "Uncle Sammy" need to do it for them. University of Granada,lol.

Nothing is absolutely harmless.
IM(rarely)HO the only laws should protect you from somebody else.
No law should protect an adult from himself.
Of course marijuana is more beneficial and less harmful than any other recreational drug.

[JimGP20]

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,6223
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

You have no idea whether or not any of the above statistics involved the use of marijuana. Pot could be a contributing factor to any number of the above categories. For you to place a zero up there is a bit disingenuous.

[johnrocks]

You have no idea whether or not any of the above statistics involved the use of marijuana. Pot could be a contributing factor to any number of the above categories. For you to place a zero up there is a bit disingenuous.

I didn't "put" that -0- there,, it was a cut and paste.

[JimGP20]

I didn't "put" that -0- there,, it was a cut and paste.


Fair enough.... then it was disingenuous for whoever compiled those stats to put it there.

[Dreamy]

Fair enough.... then it was disingenuous for whoever compiled those stats to put it there.

Perhaps but does it matter. How much could it be? Is not anyone staggered looking at what is really harming and killing us?

If this is about honesty then lets be honest. I worry much more about some drunk driving killing me or a loved one than the health of some pot smoker. I also have personally seen more harm and deaths caused by unhealthy food,prescription drugs,cigs and booze than MJ.

[Marijuana_MyAntiDrug]

OPINION AND RECOMMENDED RULING, FINDINGS OF
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Drug Enforcement Administration


FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND DECISION OF
Administrative LAW JUDGE.


FRANCIS L. YOUNG, Administrative Law Judge


DATED: SEP 6 1988
FRANCIS L. YOUNG, Administrative Law Judge
........................
Part VIII.ACCEPTED SAFETY FOR USE UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION With respect to whether or not there is "a lack of accepted safety for use of [marijuana] under medical supervision", the record shows the following facts to be uncontroverted.

Findings of Fact

Point 3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?

4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.

5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.

6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to induce death.

8. At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around
1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in onemarijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

9. In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal response as a result of drug-related toxicity.

10. Another common medical way to determine drug safety is called the therapeutic ratio. This ratio defines the difference between a therapeutically effective dose and a dose which is capable of inducing adverse effects.

11. A commonly used over-the-counter product like aspirin has a therapeutic ratio of around 1:20. Two aspirins are the recommended dose for adult patients. Twenty times this dose, forty aspirins, may cause a lethal reaction in some patients, and will almost certainly cause gross injury to the digestive system, including extensive internal bleeding.

12. The therapeutic ratio for prescribed drugs is commonly around 1:10 or lower. Valium, a commonly used prescriptive drug, may cause very serious biological damage if patients use ten times the recommended (therapeutic) dose.

13. There are, of course, prescriptive drugs which have much lower therapeutic ratios. Many of the drugs used to treat patients with cancer, glaucoma and multiple sclerosis are highly toxic. The therapeutic ratio of some of the drugs used in antineoplastic therapies, for example, are regarded as extremely toxic poisons with therapeutic ratios that may fall below 1:1.5. These drugs also have very low LD-50 ratios and can result in toxic, even lethal reactions, while being properly employed.

14. By contrast, marijuana's therapeutic ratio, like its LD-50, is impossible to quantify because it is so high.

15. In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating ten raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death.

16. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care."

[johnrocks]

Perhaps but does it matter. How much could it be? Is not anyone staggered looking at what is really harming and killing us?

If this is about honesty then lets be honest. I worry much more about some drunk driving killing me or a loved one than the health of some pot smoker. I also have personally seen more harm and deaths caused by unhealthy food,prescription drugs,cigs and booze than MJ.

+infinity and beyond!

[mtdim]

I think this thread kind of misses the point. Is there really anyone who actually thinks that inhaling smoke and holding it in the lungs is harmless?

If you just wanted a thread to point out some health risks of smoking marijuana, then fine. But in that case there's really not too much to discuss here.

[Livey]

I think this thread kind of misses the point. Is there really anyone who actually thinks that inhaling smoke and holding it in the lungs is harmless?

If you just wanted a thread to point out some health risks of smoking marijuana, then fine. But in that case there's really not too much to discuss here.


I have heard many people post or say that smoking marijuana is harmless in my lifetime.

[nortman]

How could reputable scientific studies bother anyone? :think:Let me start by saying that I have never smoked anything, legal or not. I believe that smoking cigarettes and marijuana is dangerous and leads to several diseases.

That being said, I need to play "devil's advocate" here. There are so many on the left here who would say the same thing about "man made global warming" that you just said about "reputable scientific studies". Science can be manipulated by those who wish to use it for their personal purposes.

[nortman]

There's a difference though...Cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, etc...are extremely harmful to the body, they can lead to serious mental problems and such.

Marijuana on the other hand is really less harmful, in the long term, than alcohol is...

I don't smoke it, haven't since I was in high school, and only did it a few times then...but I don't have a problem with anyone that does...I like to drink, that's my way of relaxing and mellowing out...

I do agree with you that the smell is horrific though. :DIt is possible that marijuana can be worse for you than smoking cigarettes.
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Smoking_Marijuana_May_Increase_Cancer_Ris k.asp

But, I think it is difficult to determine since most who smoke marijuana also smoke cigarettes.

Personally, I think that anyone who believes that lighting a weed and breathing in the smoke from it is really good for you is quite foolish.

[JimGP20]

Perhaps but does it matter. How much could it be? Is not anyone staggered looking at what is really harming and killing us?

If this is about honesty then lets be honest. I worry much more about some drunk driving killing me or a loved one than the health of some pot smoker. I also have personally seen more harm and deaths caused by unhealthy food,prescription drugs,cigs and booze than MJ.

Well... included in those stats are categories such as Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity, Motor Vehicle Crashes, Suicide, Incidents Involving Firearms, Homicide, Sexual Behaviors and All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect. How do we know what percentage of those cases in each category might have been influenced by the person smoking pot? It is surely feasible that many traffic accidents could be due to the person being high. Without studying each of these cases individually, there is no way of knowing for sure that pot did or did not play a role in each death.

[johnrocks]

Look Jim, I don't smoke pot, smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, I want to be clear about that however, I did all three and then some during my youth. I could smoke pot and drive through the obstacle courses with the orange cones like a professional driver but give me a few beers and I was not about to even try. Alcohol is MUCH more of a risk in vehicles than pot is. Now, I'm not saying MJ is good for you anymore than eating unhealthy is but I do think a person should be allowed to make up their own minds on what to ingest in their own bodies as long as they don't harm others or have others pay for their stupidity.

[JimGP20]

Look Jim, I don't smoke pot, smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, I want to be clear about that however, I did all three and then some during my youth. I could smoke pot and drive through the obstacle courses with the orange cones like a professional driver but give me a few beers and I was not about to even try. Alcohol is MUCH more of a risk in vehicles than pot is. Now, I'm not saying MJ is good for you anymore than eating unhealthy is but I do think a person should be allowed to make up their own minds on what to ingest in their own bodies as long as they don't harm others or have others pay for their stupidity.

That was one person's experience. I'm sure that not everyone would have the same results as you. As I said before.... if folks want to use pot, let them use it in the privacy of their own homes or within a private establishment, but the difference in doing it in public as opposed to drinking in public, is that beer doesn't pollute the air that I have to breathe. I loathe the smell of pot, it makes me nauseous, so I don't go to peoples houses who may be smoking it and I don't appreciate people in public bringing it to me.

[johnrocks]

No, beer cans only line the ditches alongside our roads, air stays fresh though.

[JimGP20]

No, beer cans only line the ditches alongside our roads, air stays fresh though.

I don't know where you live, but I sure don't see alot of beer cans along the roads here.

[johnrocks]

I don't know where you live, but I sure don't see alot of beer cans along the roads here.

That's because you guys love your environment and take pride in your landscape around Mt. Whitney; beautiful country; here; I pick up beer cans/bottles in my front yard that idiots throw out of their vehicles(Louisiana)

[Gray]

I don't even care about the studies. I would just like to be able to go to a concert and not have some ******* near me smoking that crap. I can't stand the smell of it.

I feel the same way about tobacco.

[Gray]

Health studies..pffft

Is coffee good or bad for us this week? Sorry people but these numerous dimestore studies are bad for my health.

Exactly! Scientists have reversed themselves on almost every food or substance there is.

[Livey]

Face it... life is dangerous to your health. If Uncle Sammy tried to protect us from everything that might harm us he would have no time to do anything else. ... and even then, he would fail. To arrest people and throw them into jail on the pretense that they are protecting us from ourselves totally defies logic and good sense.

Face it... smoking marijuana has some harmful consequences. I never suggested the government should protect anyone from anything. I believe in personal responsibility. One way to be personally responsible for one's health is dealing with reality and making decisions based on current and credible information. I don't see why a few current scientific studies concerning marijuana should send some into such a tailspin. I figured some would be interested in this information.

[mtdim]

Face it... smoking marijuana has some harmful consequences. I never suggested the government should protect anyone from anything. I believe in personal responsibility. One way to be personally responsible for one's health is dealing with reality and making decisions based on current and credible information. I don't see why a few current scientific studies concerning marijuana should send some into such a tailspin. I figured some would be interested in this information.

Most people probably think your unstated purpose in this thread to argue for marijuana to remain illegal. I don't know if that is your purpose or not, but in most cases people bring up these issues when making the case that it should remain illegal.

[JimGP20]

Most people probably think your unstated purpose in this thread to argue for marijuana to remain illegal. I don't know if that is your purpose or not, but in most cases people bring up these issues when making the case that it should remain illegal.

I think it should remain illegal for public consumption, but legal for private use in your home or a private establishment.

[Livey]

Let me start by saying that I have never smoked anything, legal or not. I believe that smoking cigarettes and marijuana is dangerous and leads to several diseases.

That being said, I need to play "devil's advocate" here. There are so many on the left here who would say the same thing about "man made global warming" that you just said about "reputable scientific studies". Science can be manipulated by those who wish to use it for their personal purposes.

I agree science can be manipulated. When I say reputable, I mean they are from major universities and or published in scientific journals. Meaning it is not my opinion, and I didn't get it from a place like marijuanakills.com (I don't know if that is actually a website). I get most of my articles from sciencedaily.com. The articles are selected from news releases submitted by universities and other research institutions on computer science, nanotechnology, medicine, psychology, biology, climate, space, physics, mathematics, chemistry, archeology, paleontology, and others. I honestly can't think of a better way to support an argument than with current research. Take in a bunch of information and make your own decision, is this not a good way of going about things. I am not saying any research is the end all be all, but it may be interesting and worth a glance.

[mtdim]

I think it should remain illegal for public consumption, but legal for private use in your home or a private establishment.

I agree entirely. It can be treated just like alcohol in that respect. The one murky issue is dealing with marijuana DUI; as far as I know there are no tests that can determine whether a person is currently intoxicated by MJ like Breathalyzer can do for alcohol. That issue would have to be worked out somehow before it was legalized.

[johnrocks]

I agree entirely. It can be treated just like alcohol in that respect. The one murky issue is dealing with marijuana DUI; as far as I know there are no tests that can determine whether a person is currently intoxicated by MJ like Breathalyzer can do for alcohol. That issue would have to be worked out somehow before it was legalized.

urine,hair,blood and skin tests but why worry about that, if a person is speeding,weaving across the yellow line or driving recklessly then pull him over for that, why does a joint in and by itself have to be tested like alcohol?:eh:

[Livey]

Most people probably think your unstated purpose in this thread to argue for marijuana to remain illegal. I don't know if that is your purpose or not, but in most cases people bring up these issues when making the case that it should remain illegal.

I get that, so they try and squelch good information concerning the harmfulness of smoking pot. I find that nauseating. Whether it is legal or not, smoking pot is harmful.

[nortman]

I think it should remain illegal for public consumption, but legal for private use in your home or a private establishment.

Yeah, if some ******* wants to destroy his own brain cells in the comfort of his own home and no one else can be affected, I say he should be allowed. I do have an issue with those who want to do it in public, or around children.....including their own.

[johnrocks]

I get that, so they try and squelch good information concerning the harmfulness of smoking pot. I find that nauseating. Whether it is legal or not, smoking pot is harmful.

We try to squelch, wasn't it you who did not want studies showing the good side of pot? Of course pulling smoke into your lungs has to be harmful but there are other ways to ingest, it goes back to personal responsibility for me, I think all drugs should be legal.

[Livey]

We try to squelch, wasn't it you who did not want studies showing the good side of pot? Of course pulling smoke into your lungs has to be harmful but there are other ways to ingest, it goes back to personal responsibility for me, I think all drugs should be legal.

John, I never said anything about not wanting studies about the good side of pot. I was trying to narrow the discussion to the smoking of pot, as it is the most popular method of delivery. Most adults and teenagers smoke pot as apposed to baking brownies, that is the truth of the matter. Many helpful substances are made from the components/chemicals from plants including marijuana. I have an awesome skin cream made with hemp oil in it. Post anything you want... :hug:

[johnrocks]

lol, now that we got that out of the way.:hug:

[JimGP20]

We try to squelch, wasn't it you who did not want studies showing the good side of pot? Of course pulling smoke into your lungs has to be harmful but there are other ways to ingest, it goes back to personal responsibility for me, I think all drugs should be legal.

When discussing personal responsibility, don't use yourself as the example. Although you may be a great practitioner of personal responsibility, most people are not. It's those "most people" who create the problem. To trust folks to use personal responsibility is foolish in our society, especially if those you are trusting are liberal.

[johnrocks]

When discussing personal responsibility, don't use yourself as the example. Although you may be a great practitioner of personal responsibility, most people are not. It's those "most people" who create the problem. To trust folks to use personal responsibility is foolish in our society, especially if those you are trusting are liberal.

A small percentage of society causes the problems, I prefer not punishing the rest of us because of that small percentage of people, like guns, why should my rights be trampled on because a few thousand people use guns in crime?

[JimGP20]

A small percentage of society causes the problems, I prefer not punishing the rest of us because of that small percentage of people, like guns, why should my rights be trampled on because a few thousand people use guns in crime?

I don't think it's a small percentage. I think it's becoming more and more rare to come across someone who is always personally responsible in their life.

[Samm]

It is possible that marijuana can be worse for you than smoking cigarettes.
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Smoking_Marijuana_May_Increase_Cancer_Ris k.asp

But, I think it is difficult to determine since most who smoke marijuana also smoke cigarettes.

Personally, I think that anyone who believes that lighting a weed and breathing in the smoke from it is really good for you is quite foolish.

As has been pointed out, virtually everything we encounter during our lives can have a negative effect in the right circumstances. Yes, intuitively inhaling smoke is bad for us and there are documented "bad" effects both from the inert and active ingredients of marijuana smoke. But there is also very good evidence that there are beneficial effects from the inhalation of THC, which when weighed against the "bad" effects, might well produce a net benefit to the human organism. Besides... the "drug" can also be administered without inhaling or ingesting the byproducts of combustion.

If we were to reject all chemicals that can harm humans, we would not live beyond our first few hours of life... not even minutes if oxygen (a highly toxic chemical) is included.

[Samm]

Face it... smoking marijuana has some harmful consequences. I never suggested the government should protect anyone from anything. I believe in personal responsibility. One way to be personally responsible for one's health is dealing with reality and making decisions based on current and credible information. I don't see why a few current scientific studies concerning marijuana should send some into such a tailspin. I figured some would be interested in this information.

It is not the studies you cite that send people into a "tailspin." What has set people off is your insistence in attempting to steer the discussion only toward the negative studies. As I said to you before, you cannot have a meaningful discussion (nor can you make an informed decision) if you limit it to one side of the issue. Anytime a person does what you have done here, with any subject, they are instantly viewed with suspicion of having an agenda. And most often, those suspicions are proved to be justified.

[Livey]

It is not the studies you cite that send people into a "tailspin." What has set people off is your insistence in attempting to steer the discussion only toward the negative studies. As I said to you before, you cannot have a meaningful discussion (nor can you make an informed decision) if you limit it to one side of the issue. Anytime a person does what you have done here, with any subject, they are instantly viewed with suspicion of having an agenda. And most often, those suspicions are proved to be justified.

Stop attacking me instead of dealing with the facts. Oh, and you clearly don't have an agenda, lol :rolleyes: You can't disprove hard cold research, so you attack my credibility and intentions. Good job! My agenda is to point out some research. Smoking marijuana isn't as safe as drinking water. It isn't completely safe etc... As I just said to John, (if you even bother to actually read the thread). I never said anything about not wanting studies about the good side of pot. I was trying to narrow the discussion to the smoking of pot, as it is the most popular method of delivery. Most adults and teenagers smoke pot as apposed to baking it in brownies, that is the truth of the matter. Many helpful substances are made from the components/chemicals from plants including marijuana. I have an awesome skin cream made with hemp oil.

[Livey]

Yeah, if some ******* wants to destroy his own brain cells in the comfort of his own home and no one else can be affected, I say he should be allowed. I do have an issue with those who want to do it in public, or around children.....including their own.

Here is some stuff about the smoke,

Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke

ScienceDaily (Dec. 18, 2007) — Here's another reason to "keep off the grass." Researchers in Canada report that marijuana smoke contains significantly higher levels of several toxic compounds -- including ammonia and hydrogen cyanide -- than tobacco smoke and may therefore pose similar health risks.

David Moir and colleagues note that researchers have conducted extensive studies on the chemical composition of tobacco smoke, which contains a host of toxic substances, including about 50 that can cause cancer. However, there has been relatively little research on the chemical composition of marijuana smoke.

In this new study, researchers compared marijuana smoke to tobacco smoke, using smoking machines to simulate the smoking habits of users. The scientists found that ammonia levels were 20 times higher in the marijuana smoke than in the tobacco smoke, while hydrogen cyanide, nitric oxide and certain aromatic amines occurred at levels 3-5 times higher in the marijuana smoke, they say. The finding is "important information for public health and communication of the risk related to exposure to such materials," say the researchers.

The study, "A Comparison of Mainstream and Sidestream Marijuana and Tobacco Cigarette Smoke Produced under Two Machine Smoking Conditions," is scheduled for the Dec. 17 issue of ACS' Chemical Research in Toxicology.

APA -
American Chemical Society (2007, December 18). Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke. ScienceDaily. Retrieved April 3, 2009, from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071217110328.htm

[Samm]

Stop attacking me instead of dealing with the facts. Oh, and you clearly don't have an agenda, lol :rolleyes: You can't disprove hard cold research, so you attack my credibility and intentions. Good job! My agenda is to point out some research. Smoking marijuana isn't as safe as drinking water. It isn't completely safe etc... As I just said to John, (if you even bother to actually read the thread). I never said anything about not wanting studies about the good side of pot. I was trying to narrow the discussion to the smoking of pot, as it is the most popular method of delivery. Most adults and teenagers smoke pot as apposed to baking it in brownies, that is the truth of the matter. Many helpful substances are made from the components/chemicals from plants including marijuana. I have an awesome skin cream made with hemp oil.

I am most certainly not attacking you. I am challenging your contention that a discussion can be meaningful if you limit the extent of information on a topic allowed into it. And contrary to what you repeated that you said to John, you have tried several times to shut down the inclusion of the "good" side of pot. That biased attitude is what brings your credibility into doubt, not me.

This is an open discussion board... The only way to fully explore a topic is to allow all aspects to be discussed. To limit discussion to one aspect produces nothing of merit except an incomplete set of facts, which by themselves are essentially worthless. You may as well simply have compiled your links in the OP and not come back to the thread.

[Samm]

Here is some stuff about the smoke,

Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke

ScienceDaily (Dec. 18, 2007) — Here's another reason to "keep off the grass." Researchers in Canada report that marijuana smoke contains significantly higher levels of several toxic compounds -- including ammonia and hydrogen cyanide -- than tobacco smoke and may therefore pose similar health risks.

David Moir and colleagues note that researchers have conducted extensive studies on the chemical composition of tobacco smoke, which contains a host of toxic substances, including about 50 that can cause cancer. However, there has been relatively little research on the chemical composition of marijuana smoke.

In this new study, researchers compared marijuana smoke to tobacco smoke, using smoking machines to simulate the smoking habits of users. The scientists found that ammonia levels were 20 times higher in the marijuana smoke than in the tobacco smoke, while hydrogen cyanide, nitric oxide and certain aromatic amines occurred at levels 3-5 times higher in the marijuana smoke, they say. The finding is "important information for public health and communication of the risk related to exposure to such materials," say the researchers.

The study, "A Comparison of Mainstream and Sidestream Marijuana and Tobacco Cigarette Smoke Produced under Two Machine Smoking Conditions," is scheduled for the Dec. 17 issue of ACS' Chemical Research in Toxicology.

APA -
American Chemical Society (2007, December 18). Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke. ScienceDaily. Retrieved April 3, 2009, from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071217110328.htm

No doubt. But even a chronic marijuana smoker inhales several of orders of magnitude less smoke in the course of a day than the average tobacco smoker does. Therefore, it follows that marijuana smokers are subjected to a lower level of toxins than are tobacco smokers.

[Livey]

I am most certainly not attacking you. I am challenging your contention that a discussion can be meaningful if you limit the extent of information on a topic allowed into it. And contrary to what you repeated that you said to John, you have tried several times to shut down the inclusion of the "good" side of pot. That biased attitude is what brings your credibility into doubt, not me.

This is an open discussion board... The only way to fully explore a topic is to allow all aspects to be discussed. To limit discussion to one aspect produces nothing of merit except an incomplete set of facts, which by themselves are essentially worthless. You may as well simply have compiled your links in the OP and not come back to the thread.

Sigh, I have done no such thing. I don't think guiding a thread or narrowing a topic to the smoking of marijuana because it is what I am interested in is "shutting people down". You can post whatever you want, lol. You are also free to start a topic discussing positive and interesting research that uses the ingredients/chemical components of marijuana. I would be happy to post some studies that cover that topic. I personally don't think citing the positive aspects of the components of marijuana has anything to do with the harmfulness of smoking the stuff, but if you do, I am all ears. :)

[Livey]

No doubt. But even a chronic marijuana smoker inhales several of orders of magnitude less smoke in the course of a day than the average tobacco smoker does. Therefore, it follows that marijuana smokers are subjected to a lower level of toxins than are tobacco smokers.

It may be less smoke, but it is more destructive because it has harsher chemicals in it...

ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2008) — A new study finds that the development of bullous lung disease occurs in marijuana smokers approximately 20 years earlier than tobacco smokers.
A condition often caused by exposure to toxic chemicals or long-term exposure to tobacco smoke, bullous lung disease (also known as bullae) is a condition where air trapped in the lungs causes obstruction to breathing and eventual destruction of the lungs.

At present, about 10% of young adults and 1% of the adult population smoke marijuana regularly. Researchers find that the mean age of marijuana-smoking patients with lung problems was 41, as opposed to the average age of 65 years for tobacco-smoking patients.

The rest of article is at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm

[Samm]

Sigh, I have done no such thing. I don't think guiding a thread or narrowing a topic to the smoking of marijuana because it is what I am interested in is "shutting people down". You can post whatever you want, lol. You are also free to start a topic discussing positive and interesting research that uses the ingredients/chemical components of marijuana. I would be happy to post some studies that cover that topic. I personally don't think citing the positive aspects of the components of marijuana has anything to do with the harmfulness of smoking the stuff, but if you do, I am all ears. :)

Perhaps you need to go back and reread what you posted on the first few pages of this thread in response to others posting things that did not fit your agenda. :rolleyes:

And to your second point... If I started a thread that only cited the studies that detailed the harmful aspects of oxygen on human physiology and tried to limit discussion to that, would you think perhaps I was being just a tad closed minded, and biased and was trying to push the conclusion that oxygen is more harmful than beneficial? I guess my point is that you simply do not get the point. :wall:

[Livey]

Perhaps you need to go back and reread what you posted on the first few pages of this thread in response to others posting things that did not fit your agenda. :rolleyes:

And to your second point... If I started a thread that only cited the studies that detailed the harmful aspects of oxygen on human physiology and tried to limit discussion to that, would you think perhaps I was being just a tad closed minded, and biased and was trying to push the conclusion that oxygen is more harmful than beneficial? I guess my point is that you simply do not get the point. :wall:

I will say it again, as you hear only what you want to hear, and twist the rest to fit your needs. Please post whatever you want. I think you can't stand seeing anything negative about smoking marijuana because it doesn't fit your agenda. As someone else posted earlier, negative health impacts of smoking marijuana are usually used as an argument against legalization. I could care less if it was legal or not. Either way, smoking the crap is not harmless and can be quite harmful. Instead of attacking my thread topic, which is "Smoking Marijuana is NOT harmless", why not try and prove that smoking marijuana is healthy and or helpful, or does that make too much damn sense.

:naughty::naughty:

[ManOfFaith]

So all the participants decided to consume/inhale an illegal substance? Oh boy! I did not read the story, it just strikes me as odd. Seems that the only data need be the point where they agree to partake in the study.

[ManOfFaith]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Daily

[janine11]

There are many things that are harmful to people. I would argue that the consumption of alcohol has incredibly disastrous effects to people and society as a whole.

Thus, I don't get the point of this thread. Yes, smoking marijuana is harmful.

But the point is what?

[Spaceman Spiff]

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.
2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.


This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

Here is a new one that discusses psychosis and marijuana.

Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Mar. 26, 2009) — The daily consumption of cannabis predisposes to the appearance of psychosis and schizophrenia, and those episodes of psychosis which are fruit of this substance present certain specific characteristics, both before their appearance and in the clinical presentation of the psychosis.
This is one of the conclusions of the doctoral thesis "Neurodevelopment and environmental stress in initial psychosis: transversal analysis of the ESPIGAS study", carried out by researcher Miguel Ruiz Veguilla, of the Institute of Neurosciences of the University of Granada (Spain) and supervised by professors Manuel Gurpegui Fernández de Legaria and Jorge Cervilla Ballesteros. Ruiz Veguilla is also the person in charge fo the Unit of Development Neuropsychiatry of Jaén (Spain).
This work has studied the risk factors associated with schizophrenia, identifying and characterizing in depth those psychosis associated with a continual consumption of cannabis. They carried out a study with 92 subjects, 50 of which had developed a psychosis without presenting signs of an "abnormal neurodevelopment", this is, they had been doing well academically, they had a group of friends (no social isolation) and they presented a good motor coordination. In addition, these subjects did not show a family history of episodes of psychosis in first or second degree.
Identifying a new type of psychosis
The research work carried out by Miguel Ruiz Veguilla has identified a connection between cannabis consumption and psychosis in subjects with a good premorbid performance, and without signs of minor neurological alterations, which in his opinion might point out "a psychopathological way associated with psychosis in subjects with less predisposition".
Thus, 66% of the patients with psychosis who participated in the study and had a normal neurodevelopment admitted to have consumed cannabis daily or almost every day, whereas 43% of the participants with markers of an abnormal neurodevelopment (those already indicated: bad previous social and academic behaviour, a family history and a "clumsier" attitude when they carry out tasks of motor coordination and complex motor acts) were drug users too.
In the light of the results of his doctoral thesis, the researcher of the University of Granada says that, after having identified a type of psychosis where the environmental factor plays a more relevant role, we should now answer the question of which is the prognosis, in the long term, of those subjects with a good previous behaviour, whose psychosis is associated with a high consumption of cannabis.

The results of this research work have been published in the journals Schizophrenia Research and European Psychiatry. University of Granada (2009, March 26). Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia

Right as I'm looking at this your post count is "420". Freaky, man!!

[pumpkin escobar]

1) I am starting a thread to discuss the negative effects of smoking marijuana. We all know that taking valium, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating donuts in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone. If the need to remind everyone of the harmful effects of everything else on the planet should arise, please start your own thread discussing the harmful effects of that particular chemical.
2) I understand that components/chemicals contained in marijuana are and can be used for healthy and positive outcomes, as the chemicals in many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants.
3) I appreciate that smoking marijuana can be affordable and helpful for certain medical conditions. This does not mean that smoking marijuana is harmless.


This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

Here is a new one that discusses psychosis and marijuana.

Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Mar. 26, 2009) — The daily consumption of cannabis predisposes to the appearance of psychosis and schizophrenia, and those episodes of psychosis which are fruit of this substance present certain specific characteristics, both before their appearance and in the clinical presentation of the psychosis.
This is one of the conclusions of the doctoral thesis "Neurodevelopment and environmental stress in initial psychosis: transversal analysis of the ESPIGAS study", carried out by researcher Miguel Ruiz Veguilla, of the Institute of Neurosciences of the University of Granada (Spain) and supervised by professors Manuel Gurpegui Fernández de Legaria and Jorge Cervilla Ballesteros. Ruiz Veguilla is also the person in charge fo the Unit of Development Neuropsychiatry of Jaén (Spain).
This work has studied the risk factors associated with schizophrenia, identifying and characterizing in depth those psychosis associated with a continual consumption of cannabis. They carried out a study with 92 subjects, 50 of which had developed a psychosis without presenting signs of an "abnormal neurodevelopment", this is, they had been doing well academically, they had a group of friends (no social isolation) and they presented a good motor coordination. In addition, these subjects did not show a family history of episodes of psychosis in first or second degree.
Identifying a new type of psychosis
The research work carried out by Miguel Ruiz Veguilla has identified a connection between cannabis consumption and psychosis in subjects with a good premorbid performance, and without signs of minor neurological alterations, which in his opinion might point out "a psychopathological way associated with psychosis in subjects with less predisposition".
Thus, 66% of the patients with psychosis who participated in the study and had a normal neurodevelopment admitted to have consumed cannabis daily or almost every day, whereas 43% of the participants with markers of an abnormal neurodevelopment (those already indicated: bad previous social and academic behaviour, a family history and a "clumsier" attitude when they carry out tasks of motor coordination and complex motor acts) were drug users too.
In the light of the results of his doctoral thesis, the researcher of the University of Granada says that, after having identified a type of psychosis where the environmental factor plays a more relevant role, we should now answer the question of which is the prognosis, in the long term, of those subjects with a good previous behaviour, whose psychosis is associated with a high consumption of cannabis.

The results of this research work have been published in the journals Schizophrenia Research and European Psychiatry. University of Granada (2009, March 26). Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia
Too much water is bad for you as well....why aren't you posting studies about that - unless deep down, you actually DO have a political agenda regarding marijuana?

[Chuangtzu]

Nothing is "harmless." Nothing. Water will kill, in excess. As for marijuana - lots worse **** is legal.

[gdoane]

But there are other studies that show that marijuana smoke actually inhibits the growth of tumors, so the additional exposure may be self-regulating.

The most important statistic, in my view, is the American Medical Association's data showing 400,000 or so deaths a year from tobacco usage, and exactly zero/nda/zilch/none from marijuana usage. Makes it pretty difficult to credibly suggest that marijuana is the more dangerous of the two, dontchathink?

Not really. There are about half a million household fires per year in the USA requiring Fire Dept. responses, and of those, over half are caused by careless smokers.

What they were smoking really doesn't matter, although it's pretty much a given that marijuana will make a smoker more careless than tobacco will.

I respect fire. I have six fire extinguishers in my house, I carry a fire extinguisher in my truck, and I have smoke detectors in every room because fire is not a good way to die. Go visit the burn ward at a hospital and see all the happy people if you doubt this.

Anybody who reports an activity that plays with fire doesn't result in death and destruction is so full of crap that I'd dismiss them outright as clueless or stone cold liars.

Fire is a tool. Used responsibly, it can do good things. Used irresponsibly, it can burn down a house.

Potheads and Mrs. O'leary's cow are about equal in common sense and if the outcome is the same then that's not going to be too awfully surprising.

[Dreamy]

Not really. There are about half a million household fires per year in the USA requiring Fire Dept. responses, and of those, over half are caused by careless smokers.

What they were smoking really doesn't matter, although it's pretty much a given that marijuana will make a smoker more careless than tobacco will.

I respect fire. I have six fire extinguishers in my house, I carry a fire extinguisher in my truck, and I have smoke detectors in every room because fire is not a good way to die. Go visit the burn ward at a hospital and see all the happy people if you doubt this.

Anybody who reports an activity that plays with fire doesn't result in death and destruction is so full of crap that I'd dismiss them outright as clueless or stone cold liars.

Fire is a tool. Used responsibly, it can do good things. Used irresponsibly, it can burn down a house.

Potheads and Mrs. O'leary's cow are about equal in common sense and if the outcome is the same then that's not going to be too awfully surprising.

Potheads,boozeheads. Give me a pothead any day!

[Dreamy]

Big Macs can be harmful.
Ait can be harmful.
Water can be harmful.
Stress can be harmful.
Cigs,pot booze,drugs are harmful.

Now what?

[FidelisAdMortem]

Marijuana and prostitution, two things I think should be legal.

[Broseph]

You know all of these 'studies' that prove weed smoke is more toxic than tobacco smoke include the burning of leaves from both plants?

Obviously, with tobacco, the leaf is burned, but when people smoke weed, the bud is burned... thus the reason it's called bud.

In these studies they burn the leaf. Every person that smokes ganj knows that you don't smoke the leaves, as they don't do anything for you.

Long story short, these studies purposely don't remove the leaves to make marijuana seem really bad for you.

And really, even if we give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assume that having a police state government that arrests people for smoking plants is a good thing based on marijuana leaves being toxic, what does that have to do with the idea that government should play no role invading people's private lives?

How can we make the war on drugs a bigger failure? Give it more money.

[johnrocks]

You know all of these 'studies' that prove weed smoke is more toxic than tobacco smoke include the burning of leaves from both plants?

Obviously, with tobacco, the leaf is burned, but when people smoke weed, the bud is burned... thus the reason it's called bud.

In these studies they burn the leaf. Every person that smokes ganj knows that you don't smoke the leaves, as they don't do anything for you.

Long story short, these studies purposely don't remove the leaves to make marijuana seem really bad for you.

And really, even if we give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assume that having a police state government that arrests people for smoking plants is a good thing based on marijuana leaves being toxic, what does that have to do with the idea that government should play no role invading people's private lives?

How can we make the war on drugs a bigger failure? Give it more money.

Want a really good laugh, go through all the "pot is baaaaad" threads and see all the posters cursing it then go to the tobacco tax threads where you will see some bitching about their liberties being taken away and nosey folks can kiss their ass:))

[Dreamy]

You know all of these 'studies' that prove weed smoke is more toxic than tobacco smoke include the burning of leaves from both plants?

Obviously, with tobacco, the leaf is burned, but when people smoke weed, the bud is burned... thus the reason it's called bud.

In these studies they burn the leaf. Every person that smokes ganj knows that you don't smoke the leaves, as they don't do anything for you.

Long story short, these studies purposely don't remove the leaves to make marijuana seem really bad for you.

And really, even if we give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assume that having a police state government that arrests people for smoking plants is a good thing based on marijuana leaves being toxic, what does that have to do with the idea that government should play no role invading people's private lives?

How can we make the war on drugs a bigger failure? Give it more money.

Interesting observation. There are so many studies out there and so many are simply junk or misleading.

[Samm]

I will say it again, as you hear only what you want to hear, and twist the rest to fit your needs. Please post whatever you want. I think you can't stand seeing anything negative about smoking marijuana because it doesn't fit your agenda. As someone else posted earlier, negative health impacts of smoking marijuana are usually used as an argument against legalization. I could care less if it was legal or not. Either way, smoking the crap is not harmless and can be quite harmful. Instead of attacking my thread topic, which is "Smoking Marijuana is NOT harmless", why not try and prove that smoking marijuana is healthy and or helpful, or does that make too much damn sense.

:naughty::naughty:

You may now say to go ahead and post the benefits, but you made is perfectly clear early on that you are not at all interested in them. Your agenda is to drive home the dangers of smoking marijuana without regard to the benefits or whether the benefits outweigh the potential harm. As proof of that, several people have posted evidence of the benefits of marijuana and you summarily dismissed them each time by saying: "From my original post, This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana."

Which gets us right back to the point that if you are not interested in actually discussing the relative merits vs the harm of marijuana then there is no point in this thread at all. So yes... your position to dwell on the negative does not fit my agenda, which is simply to be intellectually honest on the topic.

[Samm]

Nothing is "harmless." Nothing. Water will kill, in excess. As for marijuana - lots worse **** is legal.

By far... the single most physically and psychologically damaging aspect of smoking marijuana is the damage caused by being arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated for the act. That might not fit Livey's definition of harm, but it is absolutely true nonetheless.

[Broseph]

Want a really good laugh, go through all the "pot is baaaaad" threads and see all the posters cursing it then go to the tobacco tax threads

Yes, I have noticed that. I agree the new cig taxes are ridiculous, but many who oppose them use the most hypocritical arguments.

My favorite post was when I saw a poster who consistently comes down on the side of prohibition claim that increasing the price of tobacco via taxes will create a larger black and unregulated market for tobacco.

It's best if people like that don't vote, you know? The incredible amount of circular 'it's bad because it's bad' logic, combined with the little regard for science or liberty that pertains to this issue, is disturbing.

[Broseph]

Interesting observation. There are so many studies out there and so many are simply junk or misleading.

Especially government-sponsored studies when the government has a vested interest in proving a particular theory to be true or false.

[johnrocks]

Yes, I have noticed that. I agree the new cig taxes are ridiculous, but many who oppose them use the most hypocritical arguments.

My favorite post was when I saw a poster who consistently comes down on the side of prohibition claim that increasing the price of tobacco via taxes will create a larger black and unregulated market for tobacco.

It's best if people like that don't vote, you know? The incredible amount of circular 'it's bad because it's bad' logic, combined with the little regard for science or liberty that pertains to this issue, is disturbing.

Some are simply "head spinning",lol.

[timerollin]

I think smoking weed is not so bad. I smoke and , ah, wait what was I saying? Oh yea, Pot has no bad, wow did you see that? Man, ha ha ha ha ha, no way, that's so cool. What was this thread about? Man I am hungry. Smoking Pot clears my head and makes, what, why are you thinking, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. No right, lets get back to what the post is, man I am, yea I need something sweet. Ha ha ha ha ha ha...

[Marijuana_MyAntiDrug]

In one of the largest marijuana studies ever conducted, researchers have concluded that regular pot smoking does not cause death, but that branding its use a crime may itself pose a health hazard by exposing users to criminals and violence.

And because marijuana use is so widespread in America today, the researchers called for medical guidelines warning that pot smoking can lead to risky sexual behavior, impaired driving ability and ultimately to a strong dependence akin to drug addiction.

The researchers tracked the records of more than 65,000 Bay Area members of the Kaiser Permanente health plan for an average of 10 years. Compared to the members who had never used marijuana, they found no increase in deaths among more than 14,000 of the patients who had said they were marijuana users between 1979 and 1985.

People with AIDS were the only group of pot smokers found to have significantly higher death rates than the other nonsmokers. But their mortality was virtually the same as it was for AIDS patients who didn't smoke marijuana. So although the association between marijuana and AIDS deaths is clear, ``we really don't think it's a cause,'' said Dr. Stephen Sidney, who headed the research group.

The report on marijuana use and mortality was published yesterday in the April issue of the American Journal of Public Health. The researchers were from Kaiser Permanente in Oakland and the University of California School of Public Health in Berkeley.
An estimated 10 million Americans now use marijuana, and because at least one- quarter of them are teenagers, Sidney said it is crucial for doctors and parents to recognize the need for credible advice about pot smoking.

``Our primary message should be `Don't use it, but if -- God forbid -- you do use it, then don't drive or let anyone who smokes it drive, and remember that marijuana can easily lead you into situations of risky sex,' '' said Sidney, who has three children, ages 15, 12 and 7.

The report noted that while marijuana smoking does not cause death, pot smokers make significantly more clinic visits for respiratory infections like coughs, colds and flu than nonsmokers.
In one part of the study, the researchers compared the risk of death among the marijuana users to deaths among cigarette smokers and those who consumed three or more alcoholic drinks a day.

Mortality was highest of all for the cigarette smokers, but the mortality risk among marijuana smokers and drinkers varied by gender.

Among women, those who smoked marijuana had a lower risk of death than drinkers, while mortality was higher among men who smoked pot than it was among those who drank regularly.
The researchers stressed throughout their report that the links they found between pot use and deaths were associations but not an indication that marijuana was a cause of death.
The report also touched on several politically charged political issues.

It said:
-- ``While reducing the prevalence of drug abuse is a laudable goal, we must recognize that marijuana use is widespread despite the long-term, multibillion dollar War on Drugs.''

-- ``The criminalization of marijuana use may itself be a health hazard, since it may expose the consumer to violence and criminal activity.''

-- ``Medical guidelines regarding its prudent use should be established, akin to the commonsense guidelines that apply to alcohol use...''

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/kaiser2.htm

[Livey]

You know all of these 'studies' that prove weed smoke is more toxic than tobacco smoke include the burning of leaves from both plants?

Obviously, with tobacco, the leaf is burned, but when people smoke weed, the bud is burned... thus the reason it's called bud.

In these studies they burn the leaf. Every person that smokes ganj knows that you don't smoke the leaves, as they don't do anything for you.

Long story short, these studies purposely don't remove the leaves to make marijuana seem really bad for you.

And really, even if we give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assume that having a police state government that arrests people for smoking plants is a good thing based on marijuana leaves being toxic, what does that have to do with the idea that government should play no role invading people's private lives?

How can we make the war on drugs a bigger failure? Give it more money.

The studies I have noted are from reputable institutions and are published in well known science journals. It is stuff you could cite if you were doing a college research paper etc... It doesn't mean it is the law of the land, but it is hardly crap published by biased publications. These same journals publish research about the good ingredients in marijuana that can be used for the positive. By nature, scientists are supposed to be unbiased. It is not like I got this stuff from a government site or from like Ihatemarijuana.com (Don't know if that is a real site.) How can you say that all research studying the toxins in marijuana smoke use faulty methods of gathering data, that is sort of silly. There is no conspiracy... Smoking marijuana is pretty bad for you, whether you want to hear it or not. I don't care if it may be better than cigarettes, as cigarettes suck too. I don't care if it is legal or not. I believe in personal responsibility. An example of personal responsibility would be gathering information and making an informed decision about something. Has it ever occurred to any of you, that some parents may be interested in the current information pertaining to the health risks of smoking marijuana. I have said this before. Smoke all you want, but don't tell people smoking it is harmless when it is not.
:think:

[Livey]

Another interesting study, published in Molecular psychiatry journal.

Possible Connection Between Marijuana Abuse And Stroke Or Heart Attacks
APA-Molecular Psychiatry (2008, May 13). Possible Connection Between Marijuana Abuse And Stroke Or Heart Attacks. ScienceDaily. Retrieved April 4, 2009, from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080513054830.htm

Long-term harmful effects of marijuana (MJ) include risk for heart attacks and strokes in addition to impaired learning and memory. The active chemical in MJ called delta-9-tetrahyrdocannabinol (THC) is believed to exert these effects by binding to cannabinoid (CB) receptors located on several cell types in various organs.

Scientists have found CB receptors in many organs including the brain, heart, liver, kidney, and spleen. In this study, researchers investigated if persistent heavy MJ use might be associated with changes in different blood proteins in order to check if the abnormalities in the identified proteins might be related to other side-effects of marijuana. The study was conducted with 18 long term heavy MJ users and 24 non-drug using volunteers.

People with major medical and psychiatric illnesses, hypertension, head injury, HIV positive, alcohol dependency and other drug usage, were excluded from the study. Blood proteins were measured in both control volunteers and MJ users using a new method (protein chip) that has the potential to identify several new target proteins. That approach showed that apolipoprotein C-III (apoC-III) showed significant increases in MJ abusers.

ApoC-III belongs to a large family of proteins that interact with lipids and helps lipids to move into and out of cells. ApoC-III is involved in transport of triglycerides and delays the breakdown of triglycerides. Increases in apoC-III levels in the blood occur in parallel with increases in triglyceride levels.

Even though we still don't understand how heavy MJ use might cause increases in apoC-III levels, this protein might be one of the reasons why some MJ users have increased risks of heart attack and stroke

[Samm]

The studies I have noted are from reputable institutions and are published in well known science journals. It is stuff you could cite if you were doing a college research paper etc... It doesn't mean it is the law of the land, but it is hardly crap published by biased publications. These same journals publish research about the good ingredients in marijuana that can be used for the positive. By nature, scientists are supposed to be unbiased. It is not like I got this stuff from a government site or from like Ihatemarijuana.com (Don't know if that is a real site.) How can you say that all research studying the toxins in marijuana smoke use faulty methods of gathering data, that is sort of silly. There is no conspiracy... Smoking marijuana is pretty bad for you, whether you want to hear it or not. I don't care if it may be better than cigarettes, as cigarettes suck too. I don't care if it is legal or not. I believe in personal responsibility. An example of personal responsibility would be gathering information and making an informed decision about something. Has it ever occurred to any of you, that some parents may be interested in the current information pertaining to the health risks of smoking marijuana. I have said this before. Smoke all you want, but don't tell people smoking it is harmless when it is not.
:think:

Why do you keep making that tired argument? Quote even one person in here who has seriously claimed that smoking marijuana is harmless.

As has been pointed out to you several times, virtually nothing we encounter in life is completely harmless, even those things that without we could not live.

[Dual867PowerMac]

I've never said smoking marijuana didn't carry some risks. But what doesn't anymore.

However, I have said on countless occasions that the drug war is a total failure and it's not really about preventing people from doing drugs. It's about a small segment's power over the populace and trying to control the people through fear and lies (which, incidentally, are the same principles the IRS operates on.)

But back on topic... another reason there's a drug war is that the government doesn't like the competition.

[gdoane]

Potheads,boozeheads. Give me a pothead any day!

Call me a bigot, but I don't want to do biz with anyone who has touched marijuana at any time in their lives. I hate those kinds of people and I will not do business with anybody but nice people. Nice people and people who have smoked pot are mutually exclusive concepts. Anybody who has smoked pot has joined the nasty people gang.

I hate potheads. I don't think they're funny, I don't think they had moment of indiscretion, I think they're genuinely evil people and/or idiots whom I don't want to deal with. AT ALL.

I have the right of association, that's a FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and if you've smoked pot, EVER, then I don't want to associate with you because you're either a crook or an idiot.

I hate pot smokers. They murdered my brother. You only have to kill my brother once to tick me off.

[Livey]

You may now say to go ahead and post the benefits, but you made is perfectly clear early on that you are not at all interested in them. Your agenda is to drive home the dangers of smoking marijuana without regard to the benefits or whether the benefits outweigh the potential harm. As proof of that, several people have posted evidence of the benefits of marijuana and you summarily dismissed them each time by saying: "From my original post, This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana."

Which gets us right back to the point that if you are not interested in actually discussing the relative merits vs the harm of marijuana then there is no point in this thread at all. So yes... your position to dwell on the negative does not fit my agenda, which is simply to be intellectually honest on the topic.

Oh ic, there is no point to this thread because you can't spew your talking points as if I am anti-legalization. If there is no point, why do you keep posting in it? You need to advertise that there is no point to this thread over and over, Why? Afraid someone might read a study that suggests smoking marijuana to get high isn't the absolute best thing someone can do for their health.

As I said earlier, post away all the positive and benefits of smoking marijuana. I would love to hear how positive it is to smoke pot and to get stoned. I have no problem with the affordable medical use of the stuff. I understand that there are pros and cons to all pharmaceuticals. I am sorry that I wanted to narrow the topic to the smoking of marijuana, as it is the most common form of delivery. I have stated several times that I know there are components/ingredients in marijuana that can be used for many positive things. As I said before, talk about these things if you want. KNOCK yourself out if need be. I don't see how it has anything to do with smoking the chemical and its harms. The title of this thread is "Smoking marijuana is NOT harmless", by the way.

I hope you are not insinuating that I am being intellectually dishonest. You should really try and discuss the topic and stop attacking me and this thread. Smoke away dude, but don't tell other people smoking it isn't harmful.

[Samm]

Call me a bigot, but I don't want to do biz with anyone who has touched marijuana at any time in their lives. I hate those kinds of people and I will not do business with anybody but nice people. Nice people and people who have smoked pot are mutually exclusive concepts. Anybody who has smoked pot has joined the nasty people gang.

I hate potheads. I don't think they're funny, I don't think they had moment of indiscretion, I think they're genuinely evil people and/or idiots whom I don't want to deal with. AT ALL.

I have the right of association, that's a FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and if you've smoked pot, EVER, then I don't want to associate with you because you're either a crook or an idiot.

I hate pot smokers. They murdered my brother. You only have to kill my brother once to tick me off.

I hate to tell you this buddy, but 10 to 1 (conservatively) you already have and currently are. :neutral:

[Livey]

As has been pointed out to you several times, virtually nothing we encounter in life is completely harmless, even those things that without we could not live.

Then what is the freaking problem with posting some studies about it. Would it make you feel better if I also posted studies about harmfulness of doughnuts.

[Livey]

I've never said smoking marijuana didn't carry some risks. But what doesn't anymore.

I agree. There are many hazards in life. I personally like to gather information on things. I have always been interested in nutrition and health.


However, I have said on countless occasions that the drug war is a total failure and it's not really about preventing people from doing drugs. It's about a small segment's power over the populace and trying to control the people through fear and lies (which, incidentally, are the same principles the IRS operates on.)

But back on topic... another reason there's a drug war is that the government doesn't like the competition.[/QUOTE]

Interesting theories...

I don't know if marijuana should be legal or not. I do know that I abhor people (not suggesting anyone in here), who disseminate information claiming marijuana isn't that bad to smoke, because it supports their political agenda, and their own personal use. This is why I started this thread. This is good info. I am not passing around junk. I think this stuff is good to know if your kid asks why smoking marijuana is bad. I could post stuff about cigarettes too, but I am pretty sure we have all heard it. I honestly just wanted to start a thread about this, keep up with it and add new information as it came out.

[Marijuana_MyAntiDrug]

Top 10 Cannabis Studies the Government Wished it Had Never Funded.

http://www.otagonorml.com/node/199

[johnrocks]

Top 10 Cannabis Studies the Government Wished it Had Never Funded.

http://www.otagonorml.com/node/199

ouch,lol

[Samm]

Then what is the freaking problem with posting some studies about it. Would it make you feel better if I also posted studies about harmfulness of doughnuts.

Nothing is wrong with it... post away. While you are at it, post some of the studies that document the permanent harm done to kids who are arrested for smoking pot and spend time in jail with hardened criminals.

Take the chip off your shoulder Livey and quit accusing other people of doing something that they are not. I'm sure you will be much more content if you would open your mind to all aspects of the topic rather than obsessing on medical studies that focus on negative effects. In fact... you might benefit from a couple of tokes yourself. ;)


BTW... I don't eat donuts... they are really bad for you. :razz:

[Samm]

ouch,lol

Have a toke... it'll ease the pain. ;)

[waynevan]

Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse than Marijuana

It appears that when it comes to teen brain development, parents should be more worried about alcohol abuse than marijuana abuse. Two recent studies have been published showing that alcohol -- a legal substance (though not legal for teens in the U.S.) -- is considered more dangerous than marijuana, which is illegal in many countries.

One study has been published in the U.S., in the journal Clinical EEG and neuroscience: official journal of the EEG and Clinical Neuroscience Society (ENCS), and shows that alcohol has a stronger effect on teen brain development than marijuana. The other is a study published in the Lancet, offering the results of substance classification by a number of U.K. professionals, purporting that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana to individuals and to society.
http://www.physorg.com/news157280425.html

Tanks are more dangerous than rocket propelled grenades. Should RPG's be sold at Walmart?

[gdoane]

In one of the largest marijuana studies ever conducted, researchers have concluded that regular pot smoking does not cause death, but that branding its use a crime may itself pose a health hazard by exposing users to criminals and violence.

Researchers who would study marijuana are pinhead morons who belong in prison with their damned despicable stoner buddies.
They're accessories to one of the most vile crimes in the world.


And because marijuana use is so widespread in America today, the researchers called for medical guidelines warning that pot smoking can lead to risky sexual behavior, impaired driving ability and ultimately to a strong dependence akin to drug addiction.

Marijuana use is NOT widespread. More Americans have tried gay sex than have tried marijuana.

The researchers tracked the records of more than 65,000 Bay Area members of the Kaiser Permanente health plan for an average of 10 years. Compared to the members who had never used marijuana, they found no increase in deaths among more than 14,000 of the patients who had said they were marijuana users between 1979 and 1985.

The Kaiser Permanente health plan is the same health plan OCTOMOM was on, it's a health plan for dirtbags and sleazeballs on welfare who are accustomed to lying their asses off to keep the welfare coming. The stupid crook stoner researchers studied a bunch of lying despicable welfare cases.

People with AIDS were the only group of pot smokers found to have significantly higher death rates than the other nonsmokers. But their mortality was virtually the same as it was for AIDS patients who didn't smoke marijuana. So although the association between marijuana and AIDS deaths is clear, ``we really don't think it's a cause,'' said Dr. Stephen Sidney, who headed the research group.

Doc should have been saying that from PRISON. He thinks the war on drugs is a GAME? He's siding with the declared enemy of the American people, he's a traitor to his nation and there's only one Constitutionally Mandated death penalty offense... TREASON. He's committed it. WAR ON DRUGS. AIDING THE ENEMY. DEATH PENALTY OFFENSE.


The report on marijuana use and mortality was published yesterday in the April issue of the American Journal of Public Health. The researchers were from Kaiser Permanente in Oakland and the University of California School of Public Health in Berkeley.
An estimated 10 million Americans now use marijuana, and because at least one- quarter of them are teenagers, Sidney said it is crucial for doctors and parents to recognize the need for credible advice about pot smoking.

10 Million out of 300 Million. DO THE MATH. That's 3.3%. THERE ARE MORE GAY PEOPLE THAN THERE ARE POTHEADS. And they can't even get Gay Marriage passed, so what are the chances of getting marijuana legalized? That would be NONE.

The only credible advice about pot smoking is DO IT AND YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO YOUR NATION. YOU DESERVE TO DIE. There is a war on drugs and you are aiding and comforting the ENEMY. There's no need for research here. Nobody wants to understand the Nazis and the potheads are the same kinds of enemies. The enemy doesn't need to be understood, the enemy needs to be defeated.

``Our primary message should be `Don't use it, but if -- God forbid -- you do use it, then don't drive or let anyone who smokes it drive, and remember that marijuana can easily lead you into situations of risky sex,' '' said Sidney, who has three children, ages 15, 12 and 7.

Because potheads shouldn't breed. One of the few good things pot does is lower sperm counts in the dumb jackass traitors who smoke the crap. Hopefully they'll never breed kids as evil as they are.

The report noted that while marijuana smoking does not cause death, pot smokers make significantly more clinic visits for respiratory infections like coughs, colds and flu than nonsmokers.
In one part of the study, the researchers compared the risk of death among the marijuana users to deaths among cigarette smokers and those who consumed three or more alcoholic drinks a day.

That's significant because 300,000 of those pothead bastards are in prison and aren't making clinic visits so they're overrepresented.

Mortality was highest of all for the cigarette smokers, but the mortality risk among marijuana smokers and drinkers varied by gender.

Tobacco is just another evil weed which I will never touch.
Besides, I thought the pro-pot lobby usually touted the mortality risk of marijuana as ZERO. Now they admit to a mortality risk?


Among women, those who smoked marijuana had a lower risk of death than drinkers, while mortality was higher among men who smoked pot than it was among those who drank regularly.
The researchers stressed throughout their report that the links they found between pot use and deaths were associations but not an indication that marijuana was a cause of death.

So booze is healthier than pot now? Screw medical marijuana, I want medical Michelob!

The report also touched on several politically charged political issues.

It said:
-- ``While reducing the prevalence of drug abuse is a laudable goal, we must recognize that marijuana use is widespread despite the long-term, multibillion dollar War on Drugs.''

-- ``The criminalization of marijuana use may itself be a health hazard, since it may expose the consumer to violence and criminal activity.''

-- ``Medical guidelines regarding its prudent use should be established, akin to the commonsense guidelines that apply to alcohol use...''

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/kaiser2.htm

They called a pot smoking bastard a "consumer"? The guy is a criminal. OF COURSE he's going to be exposed to violence and criminal activity. That's who and what he is. He's a violent criminal. What he should be exposed to is PRISON.

[Livey]

Nothing is wrong with it... post away. While you are at it, post some of the studies that document the permanent harm done to kids who are arrested for smoking pot and spend time in jail with hardened criminals.

I am not interested in whether marijuana is legal or not. You seem to be, so why don't you post research about the permanent harm done to kids who are arrested for smoking pot, instead of annoying me. You are worried about the permanent harm done to kids who are arrested for smoking pot, and I am worried about the permanent harm done to their lungs. To each his own...

I'm sure you will be much more content if you would open your mind to all aspects of the topic rather than obsessing on medical studies that focus on negative effects. In fact... you might benefit from a couple of tokes yourself. ;)


That sounds great! After I run my morning 5 miles, and eat my breakfast, I will be sure to take a couple of tokes. To each his own...

[Livey]

Marijuana Use May Shrink the Brain
Smoking Pot Could Have Lasting Effects on the Brain
By Jennifer Warner
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
SOURCES:
Yucel, M. Archives of General Psychiatry, June 2008; vol 65: pp 694-701.
News release, American Medical Association.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080602/marijuana-use-may-shrink-the-brain

June 2, 2008 -- Long-term marijuana use may actually shrink certain parts of the brain and have lasting effects on mental health.

A new study shows heavy marijuana use over several years was associated with structural differences in at least two different regions of the brain, the hippocampus and amygdala.

Researchers found that the hippocampus, which is thought to regulate memory, was an average of 12% smaller among marijuana users, compared with people who didn't smoke pot. The amygdala, involved in emotion and memory, was an average of 7% smaller.

The study also suggests that long-term marijuana users were more likely to report symptoms associated with mental disorders, although the strength of their symptoms didn't meet the criteria for diagnosis of mental illness.
Smoking Pot May Go to Your Head

Researchers say there is conflicting evidence regarding the long-term effects of marijuana use on the brain.

"Although growing literature suggests that long-term cannabis use is associated with a wide range of adverse health consequences, many people in the community, as well as cannabis users themselves, believe that cannabis is relatively harmless and should be legally available," writes researcher Murat Yucel, PhD, of ORYGEN Research Centre the University of Melbourne in Australia, and colleagues in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

"With nearly 15 million Americans using cannabis in a given month, 3.4 million using cannabis daily for 12 months or more and 2.1 million commencing use every year, there is a clear need to conduct robust investigations that elucidate the long-term sequelae of long-term cannabis use," they write.

In the study, researchers used high-resolution magnetic resonance imaging to compare the brain structure of 15 men who smoked more than five joints of marijuana daily for more than 10 years with images from 16 men who did not smoke pot.

The participants also took a verbal memory test and were evaluated for symptoms of mental disorders.

The results showed men who smoked pot regularly had significantly lower brain tissue volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala areas, as well as more symptoms of mental disorders.

Researchers say marijuana users also performed significantly worse on the verbal learning test, but these differences did not correlate with brain volumes in either group.

"There is ongoing controversy concerning the long-term effects of cannabis on the brain," write the researchers. "Although modest use may not lead to significant neurotoxic effects, these results suggest that heavy daily use might indeed be toxic to human brain tissue."

[Livey]

In one of the largest marijuana studies ever conducted, researchers have concluded that regular pot smoking does not cause death, but that branding its use a crime may itself pose a health hazard by exposing users to criminals and violence.

And because marijuana use is so widespread in America today, the researchers called for medical guidelines warning that pot smoking can lead to risky sexual behavior, impaired driving ability and ultimately to a strong dependence akin to drug addiction.

The researchers tracked the records of more than 65,000 Bay Area members of the Kaiser Permanente health plan for an average of 10 years. Compared to the members who had never used marijuana, they found no increase in deaths among more than 14,000 of the patients who had said they were marijuana users between 1979 and 1985.

People with AIDS were the only group of pot smokers found to have significantly higher death rates than the other nonsmokers. But their mortality was virtually the same as it was for AIDS patients who didn't smoke marijuana. So although the association between marijuana and AIDS deaths is clear, ``we really don't think it's a cause,'' said Dr. Stephen Sidney, who headed the research group.

The report on marijuana use and mortality was published yesterday in the April issue of the American Journal of Public Health. The researchers were from Kaiser Permanente in Oakland and the University of California School of Public Health in Berkeley.
An estimated 10 million Americans now use marijuana, and because at least one- quarter of them are teenagers, Sidney said it is crucial for doctors and parents to recognize the need for credible advice about pot smoking.

``Our primary message should be `Don't use it, but if -- God forbid -- you do use it, then don't drive or let anyone who smokes it drive, and remember that marijuana can easily lead you into situations of risky sex,' '' said Sidney, who has three children, ages 15, 12 and 7.

The report noted that while marijuana smoking does not cause death, pot smokers make significantly more clinic visits for respiratory infections like coughs, colds and flu than nonsmokers.
In one part of the study, the researchers compared the risk of death among the marijuana users to deaths among cigarette smokers and those who consumed three or more alcoholic drinks a day.

Mortality was highest of all for the cigarette smokers, but the mortality risk among marijuana smokers and drinkers varied by gender.

Among women, those who smoked marijuana had a lower risk of death than drinkers, while mortality was higher among men who smoked pot than it was among those who drank regularly.
The researchers stressed throughout their report that the links they found between pot use and deaths were associations but not an indication that marijuana was a cause of death.
The report also touched on several politically charged political issues.

It said:
-- ``While reducing the prevalence of drug abuse is a laudable goal, we must recognize that marijuana use is widespread despite the long-term, multibillion dollar War on Drugs.''

-- ``The criminalization of marijuana use may itself be a health hazard, since it may expose the consumer to violence and criminal activity.''

-- ``Medical guidelines regarding its prudent use should be established, akin to the commonsense guidelines that apply to alcohol use...''

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/kaiser2.htm

This study is over ten years old. Do you use a computer that is ten years old. They have learned a lot since then!

[Dreamy]

Marijuana Use May Shrink the Brain
Smoking Pot Could Have Lasting Effects on the Brain
By Jennifer Warner
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
SOURCES:
Yucel, M. Archives of General Psychiatry, June 2008; vol 65: pp 694-701.
News release, American Medical Association.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080602/marijuana-use-may-shrink-the-brain

June 2, 2008 -- Long-term marijuana use may actually shrink certain parts of the brain and have lasting effects on mental health.

A new study shows heavy marijuana use over several years was associated with structural differences in at least two different regions of the brain, the hippocampus and amygdala.

Researchers found that the hippocampus, which is thought to regulate memory, was an average of 12% smaller among marijuana users, compared with people who didn't smoke pot. The amygdala, involved in emotion and memory, was an average of 7% smaller.

The study also suggests that long-term marijuana users were more likely to report symptoms associated with mental disorders, although the strength of their symptoms didn't meet the criteria for diagnosis of mental illness.
Smoking Pot May Go to Your Head

Researchers say there is conflicting evidence regarding the long-term effects of marijuana use on the brain.

"Although growing literature suggests that long-term cannabis use is associated with a wide range of adverse health consequences, many people in the community, as well as cannabis users themselves, believe that cannabis is relatively harmless and should be legally available," writes researcher Murat Yucel, PhD, of ORYGEN Research Centre the University of Melbourne in Australia, and colleagues in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

"With nearly 15 million Americans using cannabis in a given month, 3.4 million using cannabis daily for 12 months or more and 2.1 million commencing use every year, there is a clear need to conduct robust investigations that elucidate the long-term sequelae of long-term cannabis use," they write.

In the study, researchers used high-resolution magnetic resonance imaging to compare the brain structure of 15 men who smoked more than five joints of marijuana daily for more than 10 years with images from 16 men who did not smoke pot.

The participants also took a verbal memory test and were evaluated for symptoms of mental disorders.

The results showed men who smoked pot regularly had significantly lower brain tissue volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala areas, as well as more symptoms of mental disorders.

Researchers say marijuana users also performed significantly worse on the verbal learning test, but these differences did not correlate with brain volumes in either group.

"There is ongoing controversy concerning the long-term effects of cannabis on the brain," write the researchers. "Although modest use may not lead to significant neurotoxic effects, these results suggest that heavy daily use might indeed be toxic to human brain tissue."

There are so many conflicting studies out there Livey which ones are to be believed?

My feeling is that in moderation as with most things pot is not an issue of concern. Booze is. Food is. Cosmetics are. Many more use those than pot.

A study saying that people who regularly smoke marijuana may find their memories growing hazy over time is kind of silly. Aging affects the memory also. Should we stop aging?

My problem is that it's difficult for any study to link a definite cause-and-effect relationship between marijuana use and intellectual deficits.

[mtdim]

Marijuana Use May Shrink the Brain
Smoking Pot Could Have Lasting Effects on the Brain
By Jennifer Warner
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
SOURCES:
Yucel, M. Archives of General Psychiatry, June 2008; vol 65: pp 694-701.
News release, American Medical Association.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080602/marijuana-use-may-shrink-the-brain

June 2, 2008 -- Long-term marijuana use may actually shrink certain parts of the brain and have lasting effects on mental health.

A new study shows heavy marijuana use over several years was associated with structural differences in at least two different regions of the brain, the hippocampus and amygdala.

Researchers found that the hippocampus, which is thought to regulate memory, was an average of 12% smaller among marijuana users, compared with people who didn't smoke pot. The amygdala, involved in emotion and memory, was an average of 7% smaller.

The study also suggests that long-term marijuana users were more likely to report symptoms associated with mental disorders, although the strength of their symptoms didn't meet the criteria for diagnosis of mental illness.
Smoking Pot May Go to Your Head

Researchers say there is conflicting evidence regarding the long-term effects of marijuana use on the brain.

"Although growing literature suggests that long-term cannabis use is associated with a wide range of adverse health consequences, many people in the community, as well as cannabis users themselves, believe that cannabis is relatively harmless and should be legally available," writes researcher Murat Yucel, PhD, of ORYGEN Research Centre the University of Melbourne in Australia, and colleagues in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

"With nearly 15 million Americans using cannabis in a given month, 3.4 million using cannabis daily for 12 months or more and 2.1 million commencing use every year, there is a clear need to conduct robust investigations that elucidate the long-term sequelae of long-term cannabis use," they write.

In the study, researchers used high-resolution magnetic resonance imaging to compare the brain structure of 15 men who smoked more than five joints of marijuana daily for more than 10 years with images from 16 men who did not smoke pot.

The participants also took a verbal memory test and were evaluated for symptoms of mental disorders.

The results showed men who smoked pot regularly had significantly lower brain tissue volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala areas, as well as more symptoms of mental disorders.

Researchers say marijuana users also performed significantly worse on the verbal learning test, but these differences did not correlate with brain volumes in either group.

"There is ongoing controversy concerning the long-term effects of cannabis on the brain," write the researchers. "Although modest use may not lead to significant neurotoxic effects, these results suggest that heavy daily use might indeed be toxic to human brain tissue."

This study looked at "men who smoked more than five joints of marijuana daily for more than 10 years." That is NOT the definition of the average marijuana smoker. This is like performing a study on the lon term effects of milk-shake drinking by looking at people who drink 5 milk-shakes a day; such a study would NOT yield any practical information about the effects of drinking milk-shakes, because no one drinks that many!

So yes, if anyone smokes 5 joints a day, take note of the above study. For anyone else, the study doesn't really say anything useful.

[tha malcontent™]

We all know that... drinking alcohol... in excess are harmful, so no need to remind everyone.

Don't let me EVER Hear of you Badmouthing Alcohol again... :naughty:

Carry on.

:)

peace...

[Dreamy]

Don't let me EVER Hear of you Badmouthing Alcohol again... :naughty:

Carry on.

:)

peace...

Alcohol in itself is not bad. And neither is pot. All in moderation. Having lost a loved one to alcohol(first use, then abuse) does change your perspective on that drug. Having seen how easily its use can change the lives of others dramatically(drunk driving losses I have seen) also makes it potential to harm after ingestion all too clear.

I have seen much alcohol abuse. I have seen much less pot abuse. Makes one wonder why cigs and pot get the bad raps and more threads.

[tha malcontent™]

Alcohol in itself is not bad. And neither is pot. All in moderation. Having lost a loved one to alcohol(first use, then abuse) does change your perspective on that drug. Having seen how easily its use can change the lives of others dramatically(drunk driving losses I have seen) also makes it potential to harm after ingestion all too clear.

I have seen much alcohol abuse. I have seen much less pot abuse. Makes one wonder why cigs and pot get the bad raps and more threads.

I Know very FEW People who have Smoked Pot, or do today, who didn't also do other Drugs that did Harm them Substantially...

Some of them Permanently.

It's all about Self Control, and Alcohol is Used by FAR More People than Drugs, and it's a Relatively Small number of Abusers who End up Killing, like the Drunk Whore who Killed my Sister in a Drunken Driving Wreck over 20 years ago...

Smoking Cigarettes us just as Annoying as it is Pointless.

At least Drugs get you High in a Substantial way.

:)

peace...

[Dreamy]

I Know very FEW People who have Smoked Pot, or do today, who didn't also do other Drugs that did Harm them Substantially...

Some of them Permanently.

It's all about Self Control, and Alcohol is Used by FAR More People than Drugs, and it's a Relatively Small number of Abusers who End up Killing, like the Drunk Whore who Killed my Sister in a Drunken Driving Wreck over 20 years ago...

Smoking Cigarettes us just as Annoying as it is Pointless.

At least Drugs get you High in a Substantial way.

:)

peace...


Well Mal all I can say is the biggest destruction I have seen in families including my own was not from pot or hard drugs. It was from drinkers. Not from moderate occasional drinkers but from daily drinkers who often drank to get high,to forget,to feel less shy,to cope,too dull life,to "cure" depression...

Drinkers can ruin a family and never die or kill anyone. Just their very daily habit impacts the lives of those around them. And because it is legal drinkers justify their use.

[TheFallGuy]

Oh ic, there is no point to this thread because you can't spew your talking points as if I am anti-legalization. If there is no point, why do you keep posting in it? You need to advertise that there is no point to this thread over and over, Why? Afraid someone might read a study that suggests smoking marijuana to get high isn't the absolute best thing someone can do for their health.

As I said earlier, post away all the positive and benefits of smoking marijuana. I would love to hear how positive it is to smoke pot and to get stoned. I have no problem with the affordable medical use of the stuff. I understand that there are pros and cons to all pharmaceuticals. I am sorry that I wanted to narrow the topic to the smoking of marijuana, as it is the most common form of delivery. I have stated several times that I know there are components/ingredients in marijuana that can be used for many positive things. As I said before, talk about these things if you want. KNOCK yourself out if need be. I don't see how it has anything to do with smoking the chemical and its harms. The title of this thread is "Smoking marijuana is NOT harmless", by the way.

I hope you are not insinuating that I am being intellectually dishonest. You should really try and discuss the topic and stop attacking me and this thread. Smoke away dude, but don't tell other people smoking it isn't harmful.

Livey, it's a religion with these people. You've attacked the gospel of pot and the drug-abuse supporters cannot tolerate it.

All you will get is ad hominems and "gov't should stay out of my life" blah, blah, blah. They don't want to hear that it can be harmful to them even when studies show that it is.

[mtdim]

Livey, it's a religion with these people. You've attacked the gospel of pot and the drug-abuse supporters cannot tolerate it.

All you will get is ad hominems and "gov't should stay out of my life" blah, blah, blah. They don't want to hear that it can be harmful to them even when studies show that it is.

Oh yeah, the pro-legalization side is the only one that engages in immature ad hominems. :rolleyes:

[johnrocks]

Oh yeah, the pro-legalization side is the only one that engages in immature ad hominems. :rolleyes:

lol, save us from ourselves government..pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!:lol:

[mtdim]

lol, save us government..pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!:lol:

I understand the position of those that want to keep drugs illegal. What I don't understand is supposed small government personal responsibility conservatives wanting to keep drugs illegal. It just seems like such a logical disconnect.

It's interesting that the small government side (the right) has more moral objections to drugs that the big government side (the left). It allows for a fascinating situation where we get to see ideology and the real world collide. :D

[johnrocks]

I understand the position of those that want to keep drugs illegal. What I don't understand is supposed small government personal responsibility conservatives wanting to keep drugs illegal. It just seems like such a logical disconnect.

It's interesting that the small government side (the right) has more moral objections to drugs that the big government side (the left). It allows for a fascinating situation where we get to see ideology and the real world collide. :D

I personally think that the gun control/drug control groups use the same arguments for their side yet fail to see it, the only difference is some say that guns are a Constitutional right in which I reply, my rights don't come from the Constitution.:)

[TheFallGuy]

I understand the position of those that want to keep drugs illegal. What I don't understand is supposed small government personal responsibility conservatives wanting to keep drugs illegal. It just seems like such a logical disconnect.

It's interesting that the small government side (the right) has more moral objections to drugs that the big government side (the left). It allows for a fascinating situation where we get to see ideology and the real world collide. :D

There is no logical disconnect. Drug abuse is antipodean to personal responsibility. It's as simple as that. The disconnect is trying to say that abusing drugs somehow fits in with personal responsibility.

[johnrocks]

Perhaps they need to get a room,lol.

[mtdim]

There is no logical disconnect. Drug abuse is antipodean to personal responsibility. It's as simple as that. The disconnect is trying to say that abusing drugs somehow fits in with personal responsibility.

So no drug can be used responsibly? Use = abuse in all cases? Tell me, if someone's drug use harms no one in any way, what basis do you have for calling it abuse?

I, for one, disagree that my grandmother's occasional glass of red wine at dinner is an example of irresponsible druge abuse (and I can't think of how it harms anyone in any way). :lol:

[mtdim]

I personally think that the gun control/drug control groups use the same arguments for their side yet fail to see it, the only difference is some say that guns are a Constitutional right in which I reply, my rights don't come from the Constitution.:)

I never thought about that before, but now that you mention it, their arguments are very similar.

Can you imagine how angry a gun control opponent would be to hear us equating the two? :lol:

[johnrocks]

So no drug can be used responsibly? Use = abuse in all cases? Tell me, if someone's drug use harms no one in any way, what basis do you have for calling it abuse?

I, for one, disagree that my grandmother's occasional glass of red wine at dinner is an example of irresponsible druge abuse (and I can't think of how it harms anyone in any way). :lol:

It may very well be irresponsible to do drugs,to drink,to smoke,to eat unhealthy or a thousand other things but who gets to define how we treat our bodies, us or government?

[Marijuana_MyAntiDrug]

This study is over ten years old. Do you use a computer that is ten years old. They have learned a lot since then!

These studies are a little more recent.
US Patent 6630507 (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507.html)


The United States Has A Patent On Marijuana
http://www.zimbio.com/Pharmacology/articles/2/United+States+Patent+Marijuana

[johnrocks]

I never thought about that before, but now that you mention it, their arguments are very similar.

Can you imagine how angry a gun control opponent would be to hear us equating the two? :lol:

I am a strong opponent of gun control, you can't regulate sins of the heart, they could outlaw chocalate and there would be underground Cocoa Puff factories in Juarez, people with machine guns a blazing smuggling Nestle Quik across the border and people on this very forum "donating to terrorism" by buying up every illegal Hershey Kiss and Kit Kat Bar they could get their hands on, myself included.:lol:

[mtdim]

It may very well be irresponsible to do drugs,to drink,to smoke,to eat unhealthy or a thousand other things but who gets to define how we treat our bodies, us or government?

Good point. Even if someone is using drugs irresponsibly, why should the law prevent him from doing so as long as said abuse isn't putting anyone else in harm's way?

The same logic could be used to make it illegal for obese people to eat certain foods.

[mtdim]

I am a strong opponent of gun control, you can't regulate sins of the heart, they could outlaw chocalate and there would be underground Cocoa Puff factories in Juarez, people with machine guns a blazing smuggling Nestle Quik across the border and people on this very forum "donating to terrorism" by buying up every illegal Hershey Kiss and Kit Kat Bar they could get their hands on, myself included.:lol:

What a terrible scenario; can you imagine how much more chocolate would cost? I'm not sure I could live in such a society....

[janine11]

Marijuana and prostitution, two things I think should be legal.

Wow! I'm surprised.

From a purely practical sense, I can agree. I don't understand why both are such hot button political issues. Considering the sheer number of crimes that happen in this country every day, I would think resources would be better spent catching the real criminals - drug dealers dealing in cocaine and heroin and meth, the pimps, etc.

Resources would be saved on so many levels, i.e. police, courts, prisons and jails, etc.

[janine11]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute - if my brother had been killed by a drunk driver, does that make everyone who drinks alcohol a bad person? Of course not. There is reason and there is emotion.

Saying "those kinds of people" is a sweeping generalization. If I had been mugged by a white man, would it be fair for me to say that white men are not good people? Of course not.

I think if you look at the stats, alcohol has DIRECTLY killed more people than smoking weed. And not everyone that smokes marijuana is a pothead just like everyone that has drunk alcohol is not an alcoholic.

You as an individual have every right to your beliefs. However, public policy should not be based on personal beliefs or emotion. One of the reasons that I think Bush was wrong on stem cell research. I think he was basing it purely on personal beliefs rather than public policy.

Call me a bigot, but I don't want to do biz with anyone who has touched marijuana at any time in their lives. I hate those kinds of people and I will not do business with anybody but nice people. Nice people and people who have smoked pot are mutually exclusive concepts. Anybody who has smoked pot has joined the nasty people gang.

I hate potheads. I don't think they're funny, I don't think they had moment of indiscretion, I think they're genuinely evil people and/or idiots whom I don't want to deal with. AT ALL.

I have the right of association, that's a FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and if you've smoked pot, EVER, then I don't want to associate with you because you're either a crook or an idiot.

I hate pot smokers. They murdered my brother. You only have to kill my brother once to tick me off.

[gdoane]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute - if my brother had been killed by a drunk driver, does that make everyone who drinks alcohol a bad person? Of course not. There is reason and there is emotion.

Everyone who drives drunk is a bad person and should be thrown in jail.

Saying "those kinds of people" is a sweeping generalization. If I had been mugged by a white man, would it be fair for me to say that white men are not good people? Of course not.

Skin color is a state of being, and smoking marijuana is an action. It's not fair to judge a man or woman based on immutable factors not of their own choosing but it's very fair to judge a man based on his actions.

Smoking marijuana, is it a good action or a bad action? Of course it's a bad action and what kind of people do bad actions? BAD PEOPLE.

I think if you look at the stats, alcohol has DIRECTLY killed more people than smoking weed. And not everyone that smokes marijuana is a pothead just like everyone that has drunk alcohol is not an alcoholic.

I don't care about alcohol. That's broken window theory. Just because alcohol is legal and bad doesn't mean that every other bad substance should be legal too. One broken window isn't made better by breaking the next window.

You as an individual have every right to your beliefs. However, public policy should not be based on personal beliefs or emotion. One of the reasons that I think Bush was wrong on stem cell research. I think he was basing it purely on personal beliefs rather than public policy.

Bush was right on stem cell research and based his policy on the good public policy that human life is precious and any ethical government would have policies reflecting such.

Marijuana is illegal because the FDA won't ever approve it.

It's on Schedule One because it is a drug with no medicinal value which isn't matched or exceeded in efficacy by other available drugs and it has an extremely high potential for abuse.

At least alcohol has a use as a highly effective antibacterial disinfectant. Marijuana isn't even good for anything. It's the most worthless plant on Earth.

[Broseph]

You as an individual have every right to your beliefs. However, public policy should not be based on personal beliefs or emotion. One of the reasons that I think Bush was wrong on stem cell research. I think he was basing it purely on personal beliefs rather than public policy.

This is a post, and in particular a sentence, worthy of applause.

[Livey]

These studies are a little more recent.
US Patent 6630507 (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507.html)


The United States Has A Patent On Marijuana
http://www.zimbio.com/Pharmacology/articles/2/United+States+Patent+Marijuana

As I have said before, I have read some very interesting articles on the health applications for the ingredients/chemicals in marijuana. It says the U.S. has a patent on the medical (non-psychoactive)
properties of marijuana... "Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is formula (I) wherein the R group is independently selected from the group consisting of H, CH3, and COCH3" I have been focusing on the harmful aspects of the smoking delivery method, because it is most commonly used."

[tha malcontent™]

Well Mal all I can say is the biggest destruction I have seen in families including my own was not from pot or hard drugs. It was from drinkers. Not from moderate occasional drinkers but from daily drinkers who often drank to get high,to forget,to feel less shy,to cope,too dull life,to "cure" depression...

Drinkers can ruin a family and never die or kill anyone. Just their very daily habit impacts the lives of those around them. And because it is legal drinkers justify their use.

Drugs do the same thing...

I have Watched many a Person Throw their Lives down Toilet on Drugs...

Walk away from Children... Babies.

Drugs are Bad, mmmkay... ;)

:)

peace...

[Marijuana_MyAntiDrug]

The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer.

The new findings "were against our expectations," said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.

They were all asked about their lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco and alcohol. The heaviest marijuana smokers had lighted up more than 22,000 times, while moderately heavy usage was defined as smoking 11,000 to 22,000 marijuana cigarettes. Tashkin found that even the very heavy marijuana smokers showed no increased incidence of the three cancers studied.

"This is the largest case-control study ever done, and everyone had to fill out a very extensive questionnaire about marijuana use," he said. "Bias can creep into any research, but we controlled for as many confounding factors as we could, and so I believe these results have real meaning."

Tashkin's group at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA had hypothesized that marijuana would raise the risk of cancer on the basis of earlier small human studies, lab studies of animals, and the fact that marijuana users inhale more deeply and generally hold smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers -- exposing them to the dangerous chemicals for a longer time. In addition, Tashkin said, previous studies found that marijuana tar has 50 percent higher concentrations of chemicals linked to cancer than tobacco cigarette tar.

While no association between marijuana smoking and cancer was found, the study findings, presented to the American Thoracic Society International Conference this week, did find a 20-fold increase in lung cancer among people who smoked two or more packs of cigarettes a day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html

[Samm]

I am not interested in whether marijuana is legal or not. You seem to be, so why don't you post research about the permanent harm done to kids who are arrested for smoking pot, instead of annoying me. You are worried about the permanent harm done to kids who are arrested for smoking pot, and I am worried about the permanent harm done to their lungs. To each his own...
And I am not interested in your disinterest as to the legality of marijuana. But I am interested to know why you do not consider the permanent physical and mental effects of being jailed (as a result of it being illegal) for smoking it to be any less harmful than the medical studies you cite. You claim you want to inform us all of the dangers of smoking weed... be honest... include all the dangers, not just the ones that fit your agenda.

That sounds great! After I run my morning 5 miles, and eat my breakfast, I will be sure to take a couple of tokes. To each his own...

Since you are obviously concerned about your lungs... just sprinkle some on your Wheaties instead of strawberries. :razz:

[gdoane]

The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer.

The new findings "were against our expectations," said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.

They were all asked about their lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco and alcohol. The heaviest marijuana smokers had lighted up more than 22,000 times, while moderately heavy usage was defined as smoking 11,000 to 22,000 marijuana cigarettes. Tashkin found that even the very heavy marijuana smokers showed no increased incidence of the three cancers studied.

Not credible, and here's the reason why. 22,000 joints is lighting up a joint every day for more than 60 years (60.273972 years to be exact) and the study EXCLUDED anyone older than 60 years old (last line in the article cited). The reason for my skepticism should be obvious.

"This is the largest case-control study ever done, and everyone had to fill out a very extensive questionnaire about marijuana use," he said. "Bias can creep into any research, but we controlled for as many confounding factors as we could, and so I believe these results have real meaning."

Potheads are lucky to be able to remember their own names and these idiot researchers gave these losers questionnaires? Did they think they were going to get accurate responses out of stoners? Why would you even trust the information from a slobbering stoner hippie who says he's smoked 22,000 joints?

[2Parties1GlobalistGoal]

I don't care about alcohol. That's broken window theory. Just because alcohol is legal and bad doesn't mean that every other bad substance should be legal too. One broken window isn't made better by breaking the next window.

:eh:

[mtdim]

Not credible, and here's the reason why. 22,000 joints is lighting up a joint every day for more than 60 years (60.273972 years to be exact) and the study EXCLUDED anyone older than 60 years old (last line in the article cited). The reason for my skepticism should be obvious.

Another study posted in this thread (an anti-marijuana study, btw) looked at men who had smoked 5+ joints a day. Now the average pot smoker smokes no where near that, but those people are out there. So that study is not discredited on that basis.


Potheads are lucky to be able to remember their own names and these idiot researchers gave these losers questionnaires? Did they think they were going to get accurate responses out of stoners? Why would you even trust the information from a slobbering stoner hippie who says he's smoked 22,000 joints?

I imagine the questionnaire didn't ask them to estimate the number of joints smoked in their lives, it probably asked how much they smoke daily or weekly.

[Samm]

I Know very FEW People who have Smoked Pot, or do today, who didn't also do other Drugs that did Harm them Substantially...

Some of them Permanently.

It's all about Self Control, and Alcohol is Used by FAR More People than Drugs, and it's a Relatively Small number of Abusers who End up Killing, like the Drunk Whore who Killed my Sister in a Drunken Driving Wreck over 20 years ago...

Smoking Cigarettes us just as Annoying as it is Pointless.

At least Drugs get you High in a Substantial way.

:)

peace...
You may think you know very few people who have smoked pot and did not move on to more harmful drugs, but the much higher likelihood is that you have no idea who has or has not smoked pot unless they told you they did. The vast majority of former or current pot smokers did not and do not move on to more harmful drugs. That is not to say that users of harmful drugs do not use pot, I'm sure they do or did. But they were not driven to the hard drugs by the pot, they were inclined to go that route regardless of the pot, and I would bet, a large percentage of them also used tobacco and alcohol as well as pot.

I recall a University Criminal Law Study many years ago that concluded that smoking marijuana causes criminal behavior because when they interviewed criminals in jail most of them admitted to having smoked pot. But the Study was backwards... they should have been looking at pot smokers, not criminals to see what happened to them in life; determining whether people who smoked pot committed more crime (other than the crime of smoking pot) than non pot smokers. The way the study was conducted they could have proved that eating potatoes caused criminal behavior had that been the question they asked of the criminals.

[JStasc08]

Not credible, and here's the reason why. 22,000 joints is lighting up a joint every day for more than 60 years (60.273972 years to be exact) and the study EXCLUDED anyone older than 60 years old (last line in the article cited). The reason for my skepticism should be obvious.

Chronic marijuana smokers rarely smoke only once per day. The effects of marijuana last for about 1 hour so it's not very likely that a user, especially a chronic smoker, would smoke only once during a day.

[Samm]

There is no logical disconnect. Drug abuse is antipodean to personal responsibility. It's as simple as that. The disconnect is trying to say that abusing drugs somehow fits in with personal responsibility.

There are two key words there: abuse and responsibility.

Responsible use of marijuana is not abuse any more than responsible use of alcohol is abuse.

[Samm]

I personally think that the gun control/drug control groups use the same arguments for their side yet fail to see it, the only difference is some say that guns are a Constitutional right in which I reply, my rights don't come from the Constitution.:)

You do the discussion a disservice to link gun control groups with drug control groups. I do not believe there is any connection what so ever between the two groups.

[johnrocks]

You do the discussion a disservice to link gun control groups with drug control groups. I do not believe there is any connection what so ever between the two groups.

How? Both groups want to deny others their rights, the point I am trying to make is, no matter the commodity, be it drugs,guns,prostitution ,chocolate or alcohol, as long as there are buyers who demand the product,commodity or service, no law will compromise that unless you want to compromise liberty itself, I'm sure in a totalitarian society, these problems don't exist but who wants a totalitarian state, I know I don't.

[Samm]

How? Both groups want to deny others their rights, the point I am trying to make is, no matter the commodity, be it drugs,guns,prostitution ,chocolate or alcohol, as long as there are buyers who demand the product,commodity or service, no law will compromise that unless you want to compromise liberty itself, I'm sure in a totalitarian society, these problems don't exist but who wants a totalitarian state, I know I don't.

Ah... You are talking philosophical concept... I am referring to the political philosophy of the people in the groups. You are right... the concept is the same, but there is no clear political identity among the participants of the two groups.

[johnrocks]

Ah... You are talking philosophical concept... I am referring to the political philosophy of the people in the groups. You are right... the concept is the same, but there is no clear political identity among the participants of the two groups.

Yep as well as the Economic concept.;) No political connection whatsoever.

[Samm]

Chronic marijuana smokers rarely smoke only once per day. The effects of marijuana last for about 1 hour so it's not very likely that a user, especially a chronic smoker, would smoke only once during a day.

Yes, but chronic marijuana smokers are not the norm. The average marijuana smoker does not even light up once every day.

[gdoane]

:eh:

http://www.jargondatabase.com/Jargon.aspx?id=983
Broken Window Theory
A wide ranging social theory roughly stating that problems, if not dealt with as soon as they occur, become much worse than they would otherwise be.

The usual example given is the broken window in a neighborhood. If the window is not fixed as soon as possible, the bad element (whatever that is for that neighborhood) surmise that no one cares so they move it. Conversely, if it is fixed immediately, the bad element knows that people are aware and active in the neighborhood.

[gdoane]

Chronic marijuana smokers rarely smoke only once per day. The effects of marijuana last for about 1 hour so it's not very likely that a user, especially a chronic smoker, would smoke only once during a day.

Have you thought this through? How in the Wide Wide World of Sports does some clown who is stoned a couple of hours every single day hold a job that pays well enough to support a $100 per week habit? Weed is $20 per gram, two joints is about a gram, so you're talking about a $140 per week (at least) habit or over $7,000 per year.

I'd call that an expensive hobby for a guy too stoned to hold a decent job.

[Broseph]

Have you thought this through? How in the Wide Wide World of Sports does some clown who is stoned a couple of hours every single day hold a job that pays well enough to support a $100 per week habit? Weed is $20 per gram, two joints is about a gram, so you're talking about a $140 per week (at least) habit or over $7,000 per year.

I'd call that an expensive hobby for a guy too stoned to hold a decent job.

$20/gram is a ripoff.

[philc398]

How about we include articles describing studies which show that Marihuana may also provide benefits?...

Marijuana Chemical Helps Battle Cancer

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The main chemical in marijuana appears to aid in the destruction of brain cancer cells, offering hope for future anti-cancer therapies, researchers in Spain wrote in a study released Thursday.

The authors from the Complutense University in Madrid, working with scientists from other universities, found that the active component of marijuana, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), causes cancer cells to undergo a process called autophagy -- the breakdown that occurs when the cell essentially self-digests.

The research, ... demonstrates that THC and related "cannabinoids" appear to be "a new family of potential antitumoral agent."

...




http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090402/hl_afp/usspainsciencemarijuanamedicinedrugs

[JStasc08]

Have you thought this through? How in the Wide Wide World of Sports does some clown who is stoned a couple of hours every single day hold a job that pays well enough to support a $100 per week habit? Weed is $20 per gram, two joints is about a gram, so you're talking about a $140 per week (at least) habit or over $7,000 per year.

I'd call that an expensive hobby for a guy too stoned to hold a decent job.

Whoever is the basis for your pothead sterotype is either in the very small minority of users, or is well on their way to a dependence on harder drugs. I know plenty of people who smoke marijuana very frequently and manage to do their jobs well enough to stay out of any sort of trouble. The motivation for making money is much stronger than your perception of marijuana's effects on brain function.

As for the prices you mentioned, buying good marijuana in it's smallest quantities will cost roughly $10 per gram. However, purchasing larger quantities will decrease the price per gram. A chronic marijuana smoker could easily spend less than $5 per gram on an amount of marijuana that could last several weeks.

[gdoane]

$20/gram is a ripoff.

I think so too, but when you're dealing with scoundrels and brigands and smugglers what do you expect? Like these guys are going to be lying to every government official they see and they're going to be straight with you? Why in the heck would they be straight with you when they lie to everybody else?

There are 2,205 grams per pound, making a $20 per gram price about $44,000 per pound. You call that a ripoff? Understatement of the year material right there.

The government is known for a lot of things, but making things cheaper is not among those things. Government makes things more expensive every time, all the time.

Do you honestly believe that legalization and government regulation will make pot less expensive than it is now? That's crazy thinking. Government makes things more expensive every time all the time, which is why I can't understand why potheads want government to regulate instead of prohibit pot.

If they shoot a couple more holes in their own foot they could use it as a bong.

[Dreamy]

People smoke MJ to get high
People drink alcohol to get high.

Pot smokers justify their vice.
Drinkers justify their vice.


Both can causes problems health wise.

Next.

[PeterGriffin]

Have you thought this through? How in the Wide Wide World of Sports does some clown who is stoned a couple of hours every single day hold a job that pays well enough to support a $100 per week habit? Weed is $20 per gram, two joints is about a gram, so you're talking about a $140 per week (at least) habit or over $7,000 per year.

I'd call that an expensive hobby for a guy too stoned to hold a decent job.

You're getting ripped off.

[Dreamy]

Drugs do the same thing...

I have Watched many a Person Throw their Lives down Toilet on Drugs...

Walk away from Children... Babies.

Drugs are Bad, mmmkay... ;)

:)

peace...

All drugs have that potential. Never said otherwise.


Pot in my experience had done the least amount of life destruction.

[janine11]

There is this show called Intervention. I've seen people crazy addicted to alcohol and prescription drugs and all kinds of illegal drugs. Never have I seen an episode about a marijuana addicted person.


Everyone who drives drunk is a bad person and should be thrown in jail.



Skin color is a state of being, and smoking marijuana is an action. It's not fair to judge a man or woman based on immutable factors not of their own choosing but it's very fair to judge a man based on his actions.

Smoking marijuana, is it a good action or a bad action? Of course it's a bad action and what kind of people do bad actions? BAD PEOPLE.



I don't care about alcohol. That's broken window theory. Just because alcohol is legal and bad doesn't mean that every other bad substance should be legal too. One broken window isn't made better by breaking the next window.



Bush was right on stem cell research and based his policy on the good public policy that human life is precious and any ethical government would have policies reflecting such.

Marijuana is illegal because the FDA won't ever approve it.

It's on Schedule One because it is a drug with no medicinal value which isn't matched or exceeded in efficacy by other available drugs and it has an extremely high potential for abuse.

At least alcohol has a use as a highly effective antibacterial disinfectant. Marijuana isn't even good for anything. It's the most worthless plant on Earth.

[gdoane]

Marijuana and income...

Everybody knows the image of the drug dealer with the pimp-my-ride car and huge mansion with pools and women hanging on his arms. Is that stereotype true? Hardly.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/nida_notes/nnvol17n1/cognitive.html

Marijuana users (51%) are twice as likely as non-users (26%) to have household incomes of less than $30,000 per year. Dope dealers are predators targeting the poor and children.

Now, the proposed solution of legalization would make the government the dope dealer, which I don't think is any improvement. The dope dealing government will still be targeting the poor and children and the majority of homes with incomes under $30,000 per year.

This is what liberals call "regressive", taking money from those who can least afford it and giving it to the ultra-wealthy government. Funny how liberals blast away at "the wealthy" and then give undying love for a $3 Trillion per year income to the wealthiest government on Earth.

[gdoane]

There is this show called Intervention. I've seen people crazy addicted to alcohol and prescription drugs and all kinds of illegal drugs. Never have I seen an episode about a marijuana addicted person.

I have full on cable TV (300+ channels) and I've never heard of this show. Apparently it's on A&E which is channel 40 on my cable box. My cable box spends 99.9995% of its time on FOX NEWS. I'm a Republican, I don't support the Arts and any artsie-fartsie channel will not be watched. I only watch REPUBLICAN entertainment.

You'll never see an episode with a marijuana addicted person because Democrats are potheads. They'll bury that story DEEP.

[Vaard]

all things that are harmful should be made illegal.........

[Marleysdaddy]

You'll never see an episode with a marijuana addicted person because Democrats are potheads.

That has to be the reason - it couldn't be that marijuana is neither physiologically nor psychologically addictive. :think:

[Marleysdaddy]

all things that are harmful should be made illegal.........

Water...potentially very harmful...especially in large volumes.

[Vaard]

Water...potentially very harmful...especially in large volumes.

ban it and start a war to eradicate it!


did you know every criminal in every one of our jails has tried water at least once?

[Oddball]

Are you ready for the ad-hominems?

Oh.....You mean like referring to pot smokers as "dopers"?? :rolleyes:

[tha malcontent™]

All drugs have that potential. Never said otherwise.


Pot in my experience had done the least amount of life destruction.

I Assure you the Whore who Killed my Sister not only Drank Booze that Night...

:)

peace...

[JimGP20]

Wow...... it is very evident in this thread that folks who use pot don't want any critique of that habit. Here's a thought.... why not be happy with yourself as you are... with no mental enhancement ? The way many of you here sound, you can't live without pot. I'm glad I don't have a vice that controls my life that way..... other than sports that is. :cool:

[Vaard]

Wow...... it is very evident in this thread that folks who use pot don't want any critique of that habit. Here's a thought.... why not be happy with yourself as you are... with no mental enhancement ? The way many of you here sound, you can't live without pot. I'm glad I don't have a vice that controls my life that way..... other than sports that is. :cool:

so you are in favor of making achohol illegal as well since you dont drink?


should all things you dont do be made illegal as well?

[JimGP20]

so you are in favor of making achohol illegal as well since you dont drink?


should all things you dont do be made illegal as well?

Where did I say any of that?

[johnrocks]

I have health conditions that make me hyperventilate if I do anything that "jolts" my system, that's why I quit smoking cigarettes,pot,drinking and now trying to eat healthier however I don't want "Uncle Sammy" dictating my actions.

[Oddball]

Wow...... it is very evident in this thread that folks who use pot don't want any critique of that habit. Here's a thought.... why not be happy with yourself as you are... with no mental enhancement ? The way many of you here sound, you can't live without pot. I'm glad I don't have a vice that controls my life that way..... other than sports that is. :cool:
Don't know about anyone else, but I don't fit into that box.

I merely see an authoritarian nanny gubmint attempting to protect every assorted self-destructive fool from themselves, and the attendant police/nanny state apparatus built around the policy, as a greater threat to the liberty of the individual than the given substance of abuse.

Arguments as to the damage the given substance does to the user/abuser are peripheral and, to a great degree, irrelevant.

[Marleysdaddy]

Wow...... it is very evident in this thread that folks who use pot don't want any critique of that habit. Here's a thought.... why not be happy with yourself as you are... with no mental enhancement ?

I find it interesting that you consider using pot "mental enhancement" :razz:

[JimGP20]

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't fit into that box.

I merely see an authoritarian nanny gubmint attempting to protect every assorted self-destructive fool from themselves, and the attendant police/nanny state apparatus built around the policy, as a greater threat to the liberty of the individual than the given substance of abuse.

Arguments as to the damage the given substance does to the user/abuser are peripheral and, to a great degree, irrelevant.

In a perfect world, I would agree... but we live in a world where Al Franken can become a Senator. The personal responsibility argument, while admirable to strive for, will never happen. There are too many idiots who have the same rights as those of us who actually try to acheive personal responsibility, and the percentage of the idiots is increasing. As I said before in this thread, if pot was made legal for private consumption, I would have no problem with that, but I simply do not want to encounter it in public. There is no easy solution to any of this, as this law or that law will always **** off a group of folks and the repeal of this law or that law will **** off a different group.

[JimGP20]

I find it interesting that you consider using pot "mental enhancement" :razz:

I don't. That's what I've heard from users. Colors seem brighter, music sounds better..... that kind of thing.

[Oddball]

In a perfect world, I would agree... but we live in a world where Al Franken can become a Senator. The personal responsibility argument, while admirable to strive for, will never happen. There are too many idiots who have the same rights as those of us who actually try to acheive personal responsibility, and the percentage of the idiots is increasing. As I said before in this thread, if pot was made legal for private consumption, I would have no problem with that, but I simply do not want to encounter it in public. There is no easy solution to any of this, as this law or that law will always **** off a group of folks and the repeal of this law or that law will **** off a different group.
Absolutely ridiculous argument.


As anyone with half a brain can plainly see (and I do give you credit for having way more than half a brain), with the endless bailouts and the dictatorial edicts that are being handed down as part and parcel to them, the notion of protecting everyone from failure is as tyrannical a model for governance as there is.

[JimGP20]

Absolutely ridiculous argument.


As anyone with half a brain can plainly see (and I do give you credit for having way more than half a brain), with the endless bailouts and the dictatorial edicts that are being handed down as part and parcel to them, the notion of protecting everyone from failure is as tyrannical a model for governance as there is.

Maybe I should smoke pot so I can see the truth more clearly. :lol:

[Marleysdaddy]

Maybe I should smoke pot so I can see the truth more clearly. :lol:

Apparently, it would also sound better :razz:

[JimGP20]

Apparently, it would also sound better :razz:

Good Lord. If I ever did smoke the stuff, I'd probably end up being a Springsteen fan, and that's just too much to ask. :eek: At 52 years of age, this dog don't need to learn any new tricks.

[Livey]

There is no logical disconnect. Drug abuse is antipodean to personal responsibility. It's as simple as that. The disconnect is trying to say that abusing drugs somehow fits in with personal responsibility.


This is so true. Drug abuse is contradictory to personal responsibility. IMHO, we must take care of ourselves in order to take proper care of each other.

[johnrocks]

This is so true. Drug abuse is contradictory to personal responsibility. IMHO, we must take care of ourselves in order to take proper care of each other.

Taking care of ourselves. You need "Uncle Sammy" to dictate the terms?

[Livey]

I have health conditions that make me hyperventilate if I do anything that "jolts" my system, that's why I quit smoking cigarettes,pot,drinking and now trying to eat healthier however I don't want "Uncle Sammy" dictating my actions.


Cheers! That is a lot to conquer. Good for you.

:clap::clap::clap:

[Livey]

That has to be the reason - it couldn't be that marijuana is neither physiologically nor psychologically addictive. :think:

Some basic info...

Marijuana Use and Its Effects
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/marijuana-use-and-its-effects
Marijuana, which comes from the hemp plant Cannabis sativa, is the most frequently used illegal drug in the U.S. About 4% of American adults smoke pot at least once a year. Roughly 1% of adults abuse pot, and one in 300 have a pot addiction.

Most people smoke the plant's dried leaves, flowers, stems, and seeds. But marijuana also can be mixed into food or brewed as a tea. Marijuana goes by many street names, including pot, weed, and herb. Hash, a concentrated resinous form of the drug, is short for hashish.

The rates of marijuana smoking in adults have remained stable since the 1990s. However, the rates of addiction to pot have risen significantly over that same period. And, according to recent government studies, as many as 30% of today's teenagers are smoking marijuana.

Occasional marijuana use is rarely seriously harmful, but smoking pot has important medical effects.
Physiological Effects of Marijuana

The active ingredient in pot is THC. That's short for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol.

THC is rapidly absorbed after smoking a joint. Within minutes, THC and the other substances in marijuana smoke cause short-term medical effects.

Signs of using marijuana include:

* rapid heart rate
* increased blood pressure
* increased rate of breathing
* red eyes
* dry mouth
* increased appetite, or "the munchies"
* slowed reaction time

These effects are reduced after three or four hours. However, marijuana hangs around in your system for as long as 24 hours after smoking. The lingering effects mean you're impaired for several hours after the high wears off.
Psychological Effects of Marijuana

The main psychological effect of smoking pot is euphoria. Getting high or "stoned" is the reason most pot smokers use marijuana.

Other short-term psychological effects of pot include:

* distorted sense of time
* paranoia
* magical or "random" thinking
* short-term memory loss
* anxiety and depression

These psychological signs of using pot also generally ease after a few hours. But residual effects can last through the next day.
Risks of Marijuana Use

The risks of smoking pot go up with heavy use. Although the link has never been proven, many experts believe heavy pot smokers are at increased risk for lung cancer.

Heavy marijuana use lowers men's testosterone levels and sperm count and quality. Pot could decrease libido and fertility in some heavy-smoking men.

Contrary to what many pot smokers may tell you, marijuana is addictive, at least psychologically. Even among occasional users, one in 12 can feel withdrawal symptoms if they can't get high when they want to. Among heavy pot smokers, the rates of dependence are higher.

Many experts also believe that marijuana is physically addictive. Symptoms of withdrawal from pot might include:

* aggression
* anxiety
* depressed mood
* decreased appetite

Is pot a "gateway" drug? In other words, does smoking marijuana make someone more likely to try cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, and other "hard" drugs? The jury is still out on this one. It's true that pot smokers are more likely to use other drugs after trying marijuana. What's not clear is whether smoking pot causes further drug use or if people who start smoking pot are just more likely to try drugs in general.

If you're wondering how long marijuana stays in your system after smoking, it depends on how often you smoke. Light users -- those who smoke a joint once in a while -- will have a negative drug screen after a marijuana-free week. Heavy users -- sometimes called "stoners" -- may continue testing positive for a month after their last bong hit.



SOURCES:
Compton. W. The Journal of the American Medical Association,2004; vol 291: pp 2114-2121.
National Institute on Drug Abuse: "NIDA Info Facts: Marijuana."
The Medical Letter on Drugs & Therapeutics, 2002; vol 44: pp 71-73.
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration: "Cannabis/Marijuana."
American Psychiatric Association, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, 1994.
Nocon, A. Journal of Psychiatric Research, 2006; vol 40: pp 394-403.
Kolodny, R. New England Journal of Medicine, 1974; vol 290: pp 872-74.
Nahas, G. Marijuana and Medicine, Humana Press, 2001.
Tashkin, D. American Review of Respiratory Disease, 1987; vol 135: pp 209-16.
Jones, R. National Institute on Drug Abuse Research Monograph 14, 1977.
Nocon, A. Journal of Psychiatric Research, 2006; vol 40: pp 394-403.
Agrawal, A. Behavior Genetics, 2004; vol 34: pp 217-28.
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD on July 03, 2008
© 2008 WebMD, LLC. All rights reserved.

[johnrocks]

Cheers! That is a lot to conquer. Good for you.

:clap::clap::clap:

Thanks however I did things in my past where laws didn't deter my decisions concerning my own body and how I wanted to enjoy life and I didn't need "Uncle Sammy" telling me to quit either. Things that are bad for us, we need to avoid or indulge in moderation however I want the choice to be yours, not "Uncle Sammy's";)

[Marleysdaddy]

Some basic info...


Did you really expect webMD to claim that it wasn't addictive? :think:

I have known and do know many people who use marijuana on a regular (in some cases daily) basis. They have never suffered "withdrawal" symptoms when they were unable to find any weed for a few weeks or months.

[TheFallGuy]

Oh.....You mean like referring to pot smokers as "dopers"?? :rolleyes:

Oh.... you mean like referring to officers of the law and those who support drug laws as "drug warriors"?? :rolleyes:

You don't have a leg to stand on.

[johnrocks]

Did you really expect webMD to claim that it wasn't addictive? :think:

I have known and do know many people who use marijuana on a regular (in some cases daily) basis. They have never suffered "withdrawal" symptoms when they were unable to find any weed for a few weeks or months.

It's not addictive, I laid it down quite a few years ago and never looked back,cigarettes I battled for years and still yearn for one occassionally although I know better and won't give in.

[JimGP20]

It's not addictive, I laid it down quite a few years ago and never looked back,cigarettes I battled for years and still yearn for one occassionally although I know better and won't give in.


That just means that it wasn't addictive to you. Someone else may have a differing experience.

[johnrocks]

That just means that it wasn't addictive to you. Someone else may have a differing experience.

Perhaps, I ran in that circle for 20 plus years and never met one yet, of course people would "feen" for whatever habit they acquired I suppose but I never saw addiction from marijuana. I'm sure there is a study somewhere that proves me wrong though:mrgreen:

[Oddball]

Oh.... you mean like referring to officers of the law and those who support drug laws as "drug warriors"?? :rolleyes:

You don't have a leg to stand on.
I didn't coin the term "war on drugs", pal, the gubmint drug warriors did.

Speaking of having no legs to stand on.......

[tha malcontent™]

I have health conditions that make me hyperventilate if I do anything that "jolts" my system, that's why I quit smoking cigarettes,pot,drinking and now trying to eat healthier however I don't want "Uncle Sammy" dictating my actions.

Don't take any Gubmn't Healthcare then...

:)

peace...

[Vaard]

That just means that it wasn't addictive to you. Someone else may have a differing experience.

should anything that might be addictive to some people be made illegal for all?

[JimGP20]

should anything that might be addictive to some people be made illegal for all?


Again I ask you.... where did I say it should be illegal for all?

[Marleysdaddy]

That just means that it wasn't addictive to you. Someone else may have a differing experience.

Which supports my claim that for many substances, the propensity for addiction is in the person, not the chemical nature of the substance.

[JimGP20]

Which supports my claim that for many substances, the propensity for addiction is in the person, not the chemical nature of the substance.


I never said otherwise.

[Vaard]

Again I ask you.... where did I say it should be illegal for all?

are you proposing that it should be illegal for some adults?


you should need government permission to be able to participate in a vice?

[JimGP20]

are you proposing that it should be illegal for some adults?


you should need government permission to be able to participate in a vice?


If you had bothered to read the thread, you would know that I think it should be legal for private use, but illegal in public. I've posted that no less than 4 times now.

[Vaard]

If you had bothered to read the thread, you would know that I think it should be legal for private use, but illegal in public. I've posted that no less than 4 times now.

sorry.. 200+ posts.....


ok ok.. i apologize and agree with you.......

[JimGP20]

sorry.. 200+ posts.....


ok ok.. i apologize and agree with you.......



LOL.... Lucky for you I'm not Dr. Funk. That quote of yours would be in my sigline. :lol:

[Livey]

Did you really expect webMD to claim that it wasn't addictive? :think:

I have known and do know many people who use marijuana on a regular (in some cases daily) basis. They have never suffered "withdrawal" symptoms when they were unable to find any weed for a few weeks or months.

Yes, I know, it is all part of the conspiracy.

[mtdim]

Marijuana can be psychologically addicting. But then again, anything can be psychologically addicting. People get addicted to World of Warcraft, sex, the Internet, gambling, working out, and to almost any other activity you can think of. The human physiology can become psychologically addicted to anything it enjoys. It is certainly not some inherent danger of pot that doesn't exist in every other activity we do for fun.

[Dreamy]

In a perfect world, I would agree... but we live in a world where Al Franken can become a Senator. The personal responsibility argument, while admirable to strive for, will never happen. There are too many idiots who have the same rights as those of us who actually try to acheive personal responsibility, and the percentage of the idiots is increasing. As I said before in this thread, if pot was made legal for private consumption, I would have no problem with that, but I simply do not want to encounter it in public. There is no easy solution to any of this, as this law or that law will always **** off a group of folks and the repeal of this law or that law will **** off a different group.

I don't mind if pot use is kept private. Just for the record. Not all of us are pot users. I simply want less government intervention for behaviors that some deem bad.

This to me is the OP trying to create too sharp of a point on one substance. There are so many substances used by so many more people daily yet pot draws the attention? hmmmm

[janine11]

Well, I've made arguments stating that it might make economic sense to legalize marijuana and I'm no pot smoker.

Wow...... it is very evident in this thread that folks who use pot don't want any critique of that habit. Here's a thought.... why not be happy with yourself as you are... with no mental enhancement ? The way many of you here sound, you can't live without pot. I'm glad I don't have a vice that controls my life that way..... other than sports that is. :cool:

[angelicmadrigal]

From my original post,

This is not to discuss the political aspects of marijuana, such as whether it should be legal or not, but simply the negative health issues associated with the smoking of marijuana. It is good to know the facts about anything. I know how bad donuts are, and I still eat them occasionally, but the knowledge that they are unhealthy inspires me not to grab those second or third donuts, and I need all the help I can get in that area. Please post studies are health information that you want to share. I will post studies as they come along.

No one has to do what you say, just to point that out. If someone choses to discuss it from a political angle, you can't stop them, just because you "asked" or rather demanded there be no such discussion in the thread.

[gdoane]

should anything that might be addictive to some people be made illegal for all?

When the addicts are proven jackass crooks, YES!!

The percentage of general population who have smoked marijuana, EVER, is about 45%. The percentage of prison poulace who have smoked marijuana, EVER, is over 90% which means marijuana use is a pretty good predictor of who's a damned criminal and who's an honest man.

I'm an honest man because I have NEVER used marijuana and that makes me a hundred times better than any loser jackass who has touched the stuff and broken the law.

Marijuana use is a very good predictor of who the good men are and who the evil men are. The evil men will have used marijuana while the good men won't. It's a simple and basic test of who's good and who is evil.

Liberals don't believe that evil people exist. Osama Bin Laden is just misunderstood. Kim Jung-Il just needs a hug. Saddam Hussein was totally persecuted because he was a muslim.

EVIL PEOPLE EXIST. We need ways to identify and eliminate such rotten dirty bastards and marijuana laws actually do a pretty good job of that. If you want to smoke marijuana then the odds are pretty good that you're an evil bastard.

It's not easy to obtain marijuana, despite the naysayers who act like they can phone an order in like Pizza Hut Delivery. If I knew where the dealers were, the cops would get a tip inside of ten seconds because I hate those people.

[Dreamy]

When the addicts are proven jackass crooks, YES!!

The percentage of general population who have smoked marijuana, EVER, is about 45%. The percentage of prison poulace who have smoked marijuana, EVER, is over 90% which means marijuana use is a pretty good predictor of who's a damned criminal and who's an honest man.

I'm an honest man because I have NEVER used marijuana and that makes me a hundred times better than any loser jackass who has touched the stuff and broken the law.

Marijuana use is a very good predictor of who the good men are and who the evil men are. The evil men will have used marijuana while the good men won't. It's a simple and basic test of who's good and who is evil.

Liberals don't believe that evil people exist. Osama Bin Laden is just misunderstood. Kim Jung-Il just needs a hug. Saddam Hussein was totally persecuted because he was a muslim.

EVIL PEOPLE EXIST. We need ways to identify and eliminate such rotten dirty bastards and marijuana laws actually do a pretty good job of that. If you want to smoke marijuana then the odds are pretty good that you're an evil bastard.

It's not easy to obtain marijuana, despite the naysayers who act like they can phone an order in like Pizza Hut Delivery. If I knew where the dealers were, the cops would get a tip inside of ten seconds because I hate those people.

:)) Gene this one is going take more time than I have right now.

But let me say:

Cops have been known to smoke pot.

Boozers are losers to me.

Now may I ask how many on this thread can tell ne how a pot user has directly and negatively affected your life?

Details.

Do the same for the boozers in your life.

And if any of you like to get intoxicated(lit,polluted,buzzed,wasted) on a regular basis what category may I place you?:razz:

How many of you post here drinking?

How many smoking pot?

Can I tell which ones are boozers versus which one are pot smokers?

I have seen some serious PUI here and it ain't pretty.

[Broseph]

I have seen some serious PUI here and it ain't pretty.

Posting under the influence. Hahaha. :))

[Broseph]

Well, I've made arguments stating that it might make economic sense to legalize marijuana and I'm no pot smoker.

It does make economic sense. The Economist certainly thinks so. Anti-prohibitionists have made this argument for a long time.

Only now in the current economic crisis does everyone else start looking for ineffective and/or unnecessary government projects that have massive amounts of wasteful spending. It's no coincidence that one area that many people point to first is the War on Drugs. Unfortunately, with Mandatory Minimum Biden as VP, and Obama (a huge hypocrite on this isssue) becoming a mindless tool of the drug warriors, 'change' will likely not come... at least on the federal level.

Too bad Obama didn't pick Jim Webb as his VP... he actually was a name mentioned for a while.

[Livey]

I don't mind if pot use is kept private. Just for the record. Not all of us are pot users. I simply want less government intervention for behaviors that some deem bad.

This to me is the OP trying to create too sharp of a point on one substance. There are so many substances used by so many more people daily yet pot draws the attention? hmmmm

Maybe pot draws the attention because it is the most frequently used illegal drug in the U.S.

Marijuana Use and Its Effects
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/m...nd-its-effects
"Marijuana, which comes from the hemp plant Cannabis sativa, is the most frequently used illegal drug in the U.S. About 4% of American adults smoke pot at least once a year. Roughly 1% of adults abuse pot, and one in 300 have a pot addiction."