How do we keep kids in college?

[Alone In Liberalville]

I wonder this a lot - probably because it is my job to wonder this. But seriously, we see a significant number of drop outs in the sophomore year of college at our public, urban, mostly commuter, Research II university. All kinds of initiatives are in place for the first year, as that is the most studied year by institutional researchers. I am trying to think of MEASURABLE initiatives that could be manipulated to increase retention. Any ideas? I'm brain dead.

Our problems are:

1. Most students work too much (35 + hours a week - granted they have to and probably should be contributing to paying their tuition)

2. Many are not prepared

3. They are trying to balance too many things to focus on class

[Greyclouds]

I wonder this a lot - probably because it is my job to wonder this. But seriously, we see a significant number of drop outs in the sophomore year of college at our public, urban, mostly commuter, Research II university. All kinds of initiatives are in place for the first year, as that is the most studied year by institutional researchers. I am trying to think of MEASURABLE initiatives that could be manipulated to increase retention. Any ideas? I'm brain dead.

Our problems are:

1. Most tudent work too much (35 + hours a week - granted they have to and probably should be contributing to paying their tuition)

2. Many are not prepared

3. They are trying to balance too many things to focus on class

Better high school educations.

Having taught a couple introduction to Biology classes to college freshmen, I can tell you that the new crop of students are, as a whole, completely unprepared for any college-level work.

I've unfortunately had to fail many lab reports because of plagiarism, and some students fail to grasp proper English grammar.

[Alone In Liberalville]

We have started a summer math institute for students who are admitted but whose math skills are lacking. The jury is still out on the effectiveness. A similar initiative for English skills would be nice.

[rgpizza]

I wonder this a lot - probably because it is my job to wonder this. But seriously, we see a significant number of drop outs in the sophomore year of college at our public, urban, mostly commuter, Research II university. All kinds of initiatives are in place for the first year, as that is the most studied year by institutional researchers. I am trying to think of MEASURABLE initiatives that could be manipulated to increase retention. Any ideas? I'm brain dead.

Our problems are:

1. Most students work too much (35 + hours a week - granted they have to and probably should be contributing to paying their tuition)

2. Many are not prepared

3. They are trying to balance too many things to focus on class

This is correct, many kids have to work to much in order to be able to pay for school, shelter and food so they are unable to focus on school and because they have to work so much in order to surive they are unable to maintain a grade point average in highschool that could of got them a schollarship for college. So many students find themselves in a catch 22. They have to work so much because they have tuirtion and books on top of living expemses so they are unable to obtain scholarships to lower their expenses and allow them to work less because they dont have enough time to study.

I truly beileive unversal higher education at least for the fiest two years of basic courses would help students trmendously

[Alone In Liberalville]

This is correct, many kids have to work to much in order to be able to pay for school, shelter and food so they are unable to focus on school and because they have to work so much in order to surive they are unable to maintain a grade point average in highschool that could of got them a schollarship for college. So many students find themselves in a catch 22. They have to work so much because they have tuirtion and books on top of living expemses so they are unable to obtain scholarships to lower their expenses and allow them to work less because they dont have enough time to study.

I truly beileive unversal higher education at least for the fiest two years of basic courses would help students trmendously


Maybe, but the studies I've seen show that giving scholarship money to students isn't the biggest factor in retention. GPA is - but I understand that hours worked is inversely proportional to GPA, to an extent. I worked as an undergrad, too. Still, we see students who get scholarship money, sometimes nearly enough to cover everything, and still quit. Motivation plays a huge part. The bad news is I have no idea how to measure motivation with institutional data.

[Greyclouds]

Maybe, but the studies I've seen show that giving scholarship money to students isn't the biggest factor in retention. GPA is - but I understand that hours worked is inversely proportional to GPA, to an extent. I worked as an undergrad, too. Still, we see students who get scholarship money, sometimes nearly enough to cover everything, and still quit. Motivation plays a huge part. The bad news is I have no idea how to measure motivation with institutional data.

The best measure of motivation would be two quantities calculated together:

1. Lecture attendance per class.
2. Assignments completed per class.

If the student gets lower grades but has a high/perfect attendance and completion of assignments, then its an issue of academic preparedness.

[Alone In Liberalville]

The best measure of motivation would be two quantities calculated together:

1. Lecture attendance per class.
2. Assignments completed per class.

If the student gets lower grades but has a high/perfect attendance and completion of assignments, then its an issue of academic preparedness.


Yes, and you would think that these are measurable values - if the data is collected. It isn't (reliably, anyway). It's a crying shame that it isn't, too. We have a card swipe system we could use, just don't for class attendance.

[Impenitent]

you used to have to be able to read and write before you got a high school diploma let alone were admitted into college ...

[page017]

If it's a money issue, then adults need to take more of a responsibility top not have kids until they are on more of a sound financial footing. This way they can help pay for college.

#2- The government needs to not take financial responsibility for supposedly mature adults who have not acquired a meaningful work ethic, or job skills that can be used. If you don't even attempt to stay off drugs and excessive alcohol use, and don't even try in HS, then you are not entitled to government support.

#3- If you need a college scholarship, practice math for 2 hours a day, not sports. A student of mine did this. The family was pretty good. She literally spent an extra few hours a day working on math. Now she's got a quater million dollar 5 year scholarship to RPI, and should be making a very respectable income for the rest of her life. In my 8 years teaching in my district, we haven't had a kid get an athletic scholarship of any value. You've got to make yourself valuable to get a nice scholarship or financial aid, it's not owed to anybody. Most HS and college students are just trying to fit in. Not stand out, not to compete with each other.


I'm not sure if that's why kids drop out though. In some country's, kids are on career tracks at the age of 13 or 14. We've got 20 year old college students who don't know what they want to do with the rest of their lives. Most of the kids I knew who dropped out in college spent too much time in the bar or with a bong, and not so much time in the library, or going to the classes that someone was paying a lot of money for.

[No one of Consequence]

Free beer.

[Chucky]

(#1) If it's a money issue, then adults need to take more of a responsibility to not have kids until they are on more of a sound financial footing. This way they can help pay for college.

#2- The government needs to not take financial responsibility for supposedly mature adults who have not acquired a meaningful work ethic, or job skills that can be used. If you don't even attempt to stay off drugs and excessive alcohol use, and don't even try in HS, then you are not entitled to government support.

#3- If you need a college scholarship, practice math for 2 hours a day, not sports. ....#1 - disagree: "sound financial footing" is a reason many already use to avoid having children, and is so nebulous that it's used more to justify lifestyle than as a true concern for a future generation. Plus, even though I did greatly assist my three getting through college debt-free, I don't see it as a parental responsibility. The parents can teach work-ethic, long term thinking, critical thinking, ensure their kid is actually getting properly educated, etc. But once the kid is an adult, they have to make their own decisions. If the parents choose to give them assistance in whatever their post-HS path, that's fine, but I don't see it as a parental requirement.

#2 - absolutely, and this goes for parents as well: if your adult kid isn't following a productive path, giving them freebies only encourages their bad behavior. Rather than have kids work practically full time while they try to do college, they should just work and save up for college so they don't have to work as much, or at all. They might even find that the career they'd prefer doesn't require college - at least not right away - or that their demonstrated excellence at work might influence their employer to pay for college.

#3 - yes , and this ties into parents teaching their kids about long term thinking: some extra-curricular activities are helpful for producing a well rounded individual, but kids (and adults later) need to remain mindful of the impact of those activities. It's like those old time management courses used to say: saying 'yes' to some things means saying 'no' to others. They need to think about what they're saying 'no' to.