Education!!! The Cure All for Society!!!

[greenrebel6]

I've been thinking a lot about education lately. I think we should increase our spending dramatically on Education. Why are we ranked so low in the world? We is the most prosperous country in the world!!! Why is our populace so DUMB?! I run into people on a regular basis that can barely read and or count. Its depressing ... and these people are voting? Normally i support everyone voting ... BUT!!! Thinking about them voting makes me scared. Here are some things education could fix.

1. Gun laws- No brainer. The more educated our citizenry the more responsible they will be with fire arms. We have the right to bear arms. Why don't we educate our citizenry about this just a little more? Late teens in gun education courses? Why not? Makes sense. We send 18 year olds to fight our wars. Why not teach them in a government funded course. Made mandatory in public schooling?

2. Health Care - Another NO BRAINER!!! The more we educate our citizens the more effective this will naturally become. Cigarette sales are on the decline in younger generations because of the education they recieve about how bad they are. It goes to prove that people ( even the young ones) can figure out when they shouldnt be doing something. Eliminating cigarettes would lowwer the cost of healthcare dramatically in this country.

3.Politics- DUH! DUH! DUH! How in the world would education help improve politics? Hmmm ... i dont know. Maybe some of our politicians might actually understand the concept of a free market economy!! Or Laissez faire? Or maybe theyd remember that we empower them to protect our basic civil liberities instead of our goverment trying to provide us with everything except our own personal chef. Then maybe our politicians might understand the importance of free speech which has been all but forgotten. There are several important freedoms that should be emphasized in teaching. Freebie programs would all but dissappear.

4. Economy- I shouldnt have to explain this one. If people understood the value of the dollar we would not be in this horrible situation that is our never ending recession. If people were taught that you save a little bit of every dollar u earn maybe wed understand how money works as a populace instead of just those of us who took the time to learn our selves or those of you who were lucky enough to have parents who taught you. 10 cents of every dollar earned would give every american with a job a nifty little cushion. Teach people to have 2 months income saved up and put away for emergencys!!! Teach people the importance of not relying on credit. Teach our citizens that you dont get a loan for a $300,000 home when you dont have a job( yes i know that seems totaly self explanatory but look at the crap loans that were put out there.). Teach people to invest in the future. If kids who started working at 14/16 were taught the value of a Roth IRA when they were that young then Social Security would be a thing of the past.

5. Foreign Relations - We are by far the most stupidest dumberer 1st rate prosperous nation in the world( yes i know the grammar is bad. Its supposed to be thas the joke). So many countries teach multiple languages in school. Why dont we? Spanish and Chinese should be basic second languages taught in all schools. Mexico being our neighbor( a corrupt one but a neighbor still) and China becoming the new economic powerhouse with a population of like BILLIONS, it would seem only logical to teach our kids these things. By teaching about different cultures it only improves our base knowledge of how the world works and what it is like out there.



There are so many more things education can fix ... but i dont want to have all the fun alone!!! Please post ur thoughts on what education can fix!!! And add or argue to any of my points!!!

Education really is the cure all for our country.

[gastoys1]

the reason why the U.S.A has the worst education system is because it's ran by liberals, backed by the Democrats, and dictated by union. Now Liberals/Democrats are trying to pass bills that will BAN home schooling and I suspect Christian schools will be next.


Don't forget that Obama's buddy William Ayres the Domestic Terrorist Organization Weather Underground has 80% of the survivors in schools teaching our children liberal propaganda.

Want to fix our education system? Get the government out of it and privatize it.

[Greyclouds]

Private education already exists.

The purpose of public education is to ensure that EVERYONE gets a chance to have an education. Without it, we'd have higher illiteracy rates and further social stratification.


I believe the best way to approach this situation is to provide incentives to teachers instead of penalizing them (no child left behind act).

I mean, who thinks that high school teacher pay is fair? Also, think of all the work they have to do to earn that pay!

Higher quality teachers would better shape the attitudes towards motivation, learning and ethics that we have in this country... but only in the next generation (the one currently being taught).

[chris13]

Well, you can't do the incentives thing. The unions don't like it. They don't want to reward performance, they want everyone to get the same. I hate the NEA.
I'd love to get the government completely OUT of the education process. Until we do that, it's a tainted process. The government will only teach our children what THEY want them to know, thereby increasing the dependency on government for all of life's situations (i.e. some kid dies in a car accident, government brings in grief counselors). The IFG wants your kids to become dependent for the government on EVERYTHING, from housing to healthcare to jobs. This is a BAD thing!
My kids are in a private, Christian school, so there is very little IFG intrusion on their education.

[pubschteacher]

Well, you can't do the incentives thing. The unions don't like it. They don't want to reward performance, they want everyone to get the same. I hate the NEA.

Actually, the biggest argument against incentive pay is the difficulty in assessing performance. I teach Advanced Placement kids all day, I can pretty much guarantee performance from them, no matter how high I set the bar, so you start paying for performance, I will just keep teaching those kids and raking in the money. Now, I have a colleague who teaches the same subject, he has several special education kids, a bunch of 504 plans, some kids who just plain could care less whether they succeed or not, assuring performance from this diverse group of learners is significantly different. So, tell me, how are you going to do it? Test them at the beginning of the year and then again at the end, teachers incentive is based on those scores? Are these multiple choice assessments, are you just going to assess knowledge or are you going to have them write? Who is going to design the rubrics for the writing sections?Are you going to make the necessary and federally and state mandated accomodations for the special ed and 504 kids? It seems so simple to just pay teachers for the performance of their kids, it's not. But I would love to hear your solution to this issue.


I'd love to get the government completely OUT of the education process. Until we do that, it's a tainted process.

50 state Constitutions need to be amended, better get on that.

The government will only teach our children what THEY want them to know, thereby increasing the dependency on government for all of life's situations (i.e. some kid dies in a car accident, government brings in grief counselors). The IFG wants your kids to become dependent for the government on EVERYTHING, from housing to healthcare to jobs. This is a BAD thing!

Really, huh, I wonder if all the parents that serve on curriculum committees and textbook committees know that? You would think that if the "government" changed the curriculum they worked on or chose another text, they might notice.
Standards are set at the state level, curriculum is written and approved at the local level, by elected school boards. Maybe you should have been a little more involved. We do indeed have grief counselors come in when a student dies, but I have yet to see any kid "forced" to go to those grief counselors.

My kids are in a private, Christian school, so there is very little IFG intrusion on their education.

Your choice, but thanks for your tax dollars that support the public education system, it is appreciated. :-)

[greenrebel6]

Lots of good points. Public education is the one thing the government should absolutely be involved in. Education is the base of our country. Not everyone can afford a private school. I think if we took away some of the CRAP the government spends time on and made their priority education we would be much better off. Defense and Education( education is the best defense) should be about the only things our government concerns themselves with. Just like they protect our base liberties ... they should protect our base education. Extended education seems to do well.

How do we access teachers? Per student ? Im not sure really ... all i do know is we need to fix our current system. and SOOON! We are the laughing stock of the world.

[Greyclouds]

Lots of good points. Public education is the one thing the government should absolutely be involved in. Education is the base of our country. Not everyone can afford a private school. I think if we took away some of the CRAP the government spends time on and made their priority education we would be much better off. Defense and Education( education is the best defense) should be about the only things our government concerns themselves with. Just like they protect our base liberties ... they should protect our base education. Extended education seems to do well.

And the police force.

And the maintenance of roads.

And sewers.

And disaster relief.



How do we access teachers? Per student ? Im not sure really ... all i do know is we need to fix our current system. and SOOON! We are the laughing stock of the world.

1. Reduce the summer vacation given to students from grade school to high school.
2. Increase the school day.
3. Provide payment incentives for public school teachers.
4. Provide subsidies for screening procedures for public school appointed teachers.
5. Legally bind children to attending school diligently (we used to have truant officers to do so).
6. Give career opportunity advice and training to students DURING high school as opposed to at the end of their senior year.
7. Gather all the parents in one room once a month and subject them to constant propaganda films that instill the fact that, "you had kids and they're your full blown responsibility for 18 years per child, concurrently."

More time in school does not necessarily yield better education, but it DOES instill a much better work ethic. Why? Because the kids will have little time for other things, and will have less of a sense of undeserved entitlement when they leave school.

[Alone In Liberalville]

And the police force.

1. Reduce the summer vacation given to students from grade school to high school.
2. Increase the school day.
3. Provide payment incentives for public school teachers.
4. Provide subsidies for screening procedures for public school appointed teachers.
5. Legally bind children to attending school diligently (we used to have truant officers to do so).
6. Give career opportunity advice and training to students DURING high school as opposed to at the end of their senior year.
7. Gather all the parents in one room once a month and subject them to constant propaganda films that instill the fact that, "you had kids and they're your full blown responsibility for 18 years per child, concurrently."

More time in school does not necessarily yield better education, but it DOES instill a much better work ethic. Why? Because the kids will have little time for other things, and will have less of a sense of undeserved entitlement when they leave school.


Greyclouds, I tend to be the most conservative person in the room, wherever I go, unless my husband is with me (of course, if I spent my time in places other than public universities, maybe that would change) http://forums.hannity.com/images/icons/icon12.gif - but you have outdone me. I respectfully have to say, on a few points I cannot agree.

Namely: 1 and 2

I see my kids worked to exhaustion already. Albeit, they are in private Christian schools, but I think giving them less down time would only serve to make them less productive, not more. I have elementary aged kids that are burnt out by the middle of the spring term. They are continuing to work and make good grades, but for goodness sake, let them have their break in the summer. It is a proven fact that children learn significantly from unstructured play time. It fosters creativity and releases stress. As for the parents, I tend to agree.

Just my 2 cents...

[Greyclouds]

Greyclouds, I tend to be the most conservative person in the room, wherever I go, unless my husband is with me (of course, if I spent my time in places other than public universities, maybe that would change) http://forums.hannity.com/images/icons/icon12.gif - but you have outdone me.

What can I say, I'm a moderate ;).

In terms of education though? I see alot of children who have this huge sense of undeserved entitlement and fail to realize that knowledge IS power!

I feel that keeping children occupied (and I'm not advocating an increase in work-load here; just an increase in hours "on the job") is an excellent way to keep them from developing this false sense of complacency with their position in life. Ideally, the parents would be FAR more active and a BETTER driving force, but we cannot force every parent to do so in today's society.

I remember that I went to high school from 8am in the morning and left at 6pm every night (when my father picked me up from work). Sure as hell kept me out of trouble, and taught me that life isn't fair! So I developed a work ethic instead.


I respectfully have to say, on a few points I cannot agree.

Namely: 1 and 2

I see my kids worked to exhaustion already. Albeit, they are in private Christian schools, but I think giving them less down time would only serve to make them less productive, not more. I have elementary aged kids that are burnt out by the middle of the spring term. They are continuing to work and make good grades, but for goodness sake, let them have their break in the summer. It is a proven fact that children learn significantly from unstructured play time. It fosters creativity and releases stress. As for the parents, I tend to agree.

Just my 2 cents...

I understand entirely.

There are cases of "superstar academic" children being burned out by overenthusiastic teaching methods.

My alternative is not an avocation of increased work loads, but rather an increase in structure to the child's environment.

If the child gets out of school around 3pm-ish every day, and goes home to his/her parents without anything to do, how will that child adapt to a work place that requires 9am- whenever-the-work-is-done?

I'd still suggest a vacation in the summer, but 3-4 months is unrealistic in the kid world, let alone the adult world! 2 months TOPS.

[Alone In Liberalville]

Well, with myself and my husband working, my kids day at school runs from 7:30 ish - 5:00 pm on a good day. Summers are occupied with day camp of nearly the same hours. Maybe that explains why I wish they had more unstructured time for themselves.

Here's an idea - instead of kids getting suspended from school for getting in trouble, giving them more time to get in trouble - put them on work details at school. Have a consequence they actually won't like, and at the same time get some manual labor done. Would this be considered illegal child labor?

[chris13]

Actually, the biggest argument against incentive pay is the difficulty in assessing performance.
...some kids who just plain could care less whether they succeed or not...

That's the union line. Performance can be and, in some states, is being assessed. Standardized testing, appropriately modified for special-ed students, is a long proven methodology for assessing teacher performance. And thanks for that last sentence. It should read "could not care less." That's a good example of what I see coming out of government schools.



50 state Constitutions need to be amended, better get on that.
I was speaking about the Federal government. The Department of Education is a do-nothing drain on the taxpayer. They can't even come up with a set of national standards, which is the only thing I'd actually like to see them do. That way kids from Mississippi get the same basics as kids in New York or California or any other state. Level the playing field from the point of cirriculum and stop making some states a joke when it comes to education.


Maybe you should have been a little more involved. We do indeed have grief counselors come in when a student dies, but I have yet to see any kid "forced" to go to those grief counselors.
I was very involved. I managed to log hundreds of hours of volunteer work and served for 4 years on the PTA board. I always was, and still am, very involved in my child's education.
And when I went to school, we never had grief counselors when something happened. We talked to our parents if it was needed. Self-reliance needs to be enstilled in both today's students AND their parents.
Too many parents today use the schools as a tax-funded day-care center and completely reject the idea of doing any parenting. They expect the schools to teach their kids everything. And that, IMHO, is too much reliance on government.

[Greyclouds]

Well, with myself and my husband working, my kids day at school runs from 7:30 ish - 5:00 pm on a good day. Summers are occupied with day camp of nearly the same hours. Maybe that explains why I wish they had more unstructured time for themselves.

Here's an idea - instead of kids getting suspended from school for getting in trouble, giving them more time to get in trouble - put them on work details at school. Have a consequence they actually won't like, and at the same time get some manual labor done. Would this be considered illegal child labor?

I don't believe that there is a legal issue for such things. Make it a high number of community service hours and I'm signing on to your idea :D

[pubschteacher]

That's the union line. Performance can be and, in some states, is being assessed. Standardized testing, appropriately modified for special-ed students, is a long proven methodology for assessing teacher performance. And thanks for that last sentence. It should read "could not care less." That's a good example of what I see coming out of government schools.

I don't disagree, the question is what is that assessment going to look like? Is it going to be a standardized multiple choice test, a performance assessment, an authentic oral assessment? Are you going to use formative or summative assessment. Are we going to measure progress as students move along or is it going to be one summative assessment at the end. If you would like to trade studies about the effectiveness of a standardized test in ACTUALLY measuring student learning, we can, but seems like a cat game to me.
As for the last sentence...
The Oxford dictionary already recognizes “could care less” as an American colloquialism.



I was speaking about the Federal government. The Department of Education is a do-nothing drain on the taxpayer. They can't even come up with a set of national standards, which is the only thing I'd actually like to see them do. That way kids from Mississippi get the same basics as kids in New York or California or any other state. Level the playing field from the point of cirriculum and stop making some states a joke when it comes to education.

You should ask the parents of all the special education and Title I students if they think the Department of Education should be eliminated. (Take a look at where most of the federal money goes)
I would be for a national set of standards as well. I wonder if parents of kids in some rural town in Mississippi are going to agree on the "basics" with parents from a major urban center in California. I doubt it.


I was very involved. I managed to log hundreds of hours of volunteer work and served for 4 years on the PTA board. I always was, and still am, very involved in my child's education.
And when I went to school, we never had grief counselors when something happened. We talked to our parents if it was needed. Self-reliance needs to be enstilled in both today's students AND their parents.

You were complaining about "what" is being taught in schools. Maybe you should have traded in some of the hundreds of hours of volunteer work in for a couple of hours on a curriculum committee or a textbook adoption committee. PTA's are great, but if you want to have a say about WHAT is being taught, it's not where you should have spent your time. Again, your kid wasn't required to talk to a grief counselor were they? Do you think there are more or less kids with strong parental units at home than when you went to school?

Too many parents today use the schools as a tax-funded day-care center and completely reject the idea of doing any parenting. They expect the schools to teach their kids everything. And that, IMHO, is too much reliance on government.

I agree.