Since Secularism has Caused the Death of Western Civilization, can We Get a Redo?

[BillyBobUSA]

http://www.securityaffairs.org/issues/2008/14/alexiev.php


Today, more than three and a half years later, a new study of attitudes among young Muslims by the German interior ministry would seem to confirm Tibi’s fears. According to the survey, 44 percent of respondents have fundamentalist Islamic beliefs, 50 percent believe that “Muslims who die in the armed struggle for the faith (Jihad) go to paradise,” and one in four is ready to engage in violence against non-Muslims.2 (http://www.securityaffairs.org/issues/2008/14/alexiev.php#footnotes)

Nor is such troubling evidence unique to Germany. At about the time the German study was being released, the Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali, spoke of the existence of Muslim no-go zones in Britain, described as areas dominated by radical Islamic ideology where people of different faiths reportedly face physical attacks.

This phenomenon has been likened by Tory shadow Home Secretary David Davis to “voluntary apartheid” by Muslims, “shutting themselves in closed society, demanding immunity from criticism.”3 (http://www.securityaffairs.org/issues/2008/14/alexiev.php#footnotes) And just a month earlier, in the Paris suburb of Villiers-le-Bel, young Muslim rioters for the first time used firearms and Molotov cocktails to battle police in what was described by some in the media as an “urban guerilla war.”4 (http://www.securityaffairs.org/issues/2008/14/alexiev.php#footnotes)

In the article 'Stumbling Toward Eurabia' the authors look in detail at what is causing the decline of European populations and the rise of immigrant populations, legal and illegal, that refuse to assimilate or have the minimum respect for the host society. Muslim communities are heavily insulated from the rest of the national society, whether German, French or Brit.

Europe is drinking the hemlock all to maintain a culture of death; a culture of failed social experimentation that is causing the total collapse of demographic growth rates and the loss of an entire continent to a hostile civilization.

What reason on Gods Green Earth is there for maintaining secularism in popular culture?

Game over; it is a no brainer - we must ditch secularism or watch our society go into extinction.

[angelicmadrigal]

Game over; it is a no brainer - we must ditch secularism or watch our society go into extinction.

I vote for the latter, it's the most humanity deserves.

[Clamp]

http://www.securityaffairs.org/issues/2008/14/alexiev.php



Europe is drinking the hemlock all to maintain a culture of death; a culture of failed social experimentation that is causing the total collapse of demographic growth rates and the loss of an entire continent to a hostile civilization.

What reason on Gods Green Earth is there for maintaining secularism in popular culture?

Game over; it is a no brainer - we must ditch secularism or watch our society go into extinction.


Is the absence of Secularism a Theocracy?

[angelicmadrigal]

Is the absence of Secularism a Theocracy?

And theocracy worked so well for the Puritians....I don't see any of them around these days....

[King Cantona]

Game over; it is a no brainer - we must ditch secularism or watch our society go into extinction.


'Muslim no go areas in Britain', what are you talking about?......

There isn't any........

[BillyBobUSA]

'Muslim no go areas in Britain', what are you talking about?......

There isn't any........

Bull.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/muslim-no-go-areas-in-britain-just-go-there/


In February this year, Christian evangelists Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham were doing what Christian evangelists do: handing out Bible extracts. They were stopped by a representative of the law, threatened with arrest if they carried on preaching in “a Muslim area,” and warned that they might get beaten up if they came back.

Where did this incident (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2058935/Police-advise-Christian-preachers-to-leave-Muslin-area-of-Birmingham.html) take place? Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Pakistan, where Christian preaching is forbidden and apostates persecuted? No, this “Muslim area” was in Alum Rock, Birmingham, England. That’s right — England, cradle of free speech; England, a country with an established, if enfeebled, Church, and where seventy-five percent of citizens (at the 2001 census) describe themselves as Christian. The man who stopped the evangelists, calling their preaching a “hate crime,” was Naeem Naguthney, a police community support officer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Community_Support_Officer) (PCSO), and a Muslim. Granted, a PCSO is not a full police officer, and has only limited powers of law enforcement. But which law was he enforcing? It looks suspiciously like Sharia.

This is not the first time an English “Muslim area” has hit the news. In 2006 (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2366837,00.html), Muslim preacher Abu Izzadeen expressed outrage that then-Home Secretary John Reid was visiting “a Muslim area”: East London. Yet when the bishop of Rochester recently warned (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574694/Bishop-warns-of-no-go-zones-for-non-Muslims.html) that Britain was developing Muslim no-go areas, he was denounced by Muslims as — what else? — Islamophobic. Many non-Muslims joined in the condemnation. Others argued that the no-go areas were ideological, rather than literal, but this argument rather misses the point: Islam is, and always has been, territorial.

The choice of words — “Muslim area” — is significant. Non-Muslims are not merely told that their behavior might upset or anger Muslims, but that they themselves are on Muslim soil, where such behavior is forbidden. As I have argued before (http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/12/jihad_made_in_britain.php), Islam is concerned far more with territory than with piety. Do the young Muslimahs in the picture below look pious? Or are they belligerently defending their turf?


Oh, yeah, do you feel comfortable walking through Derby’s Arboretum Park?

I hear that is a great place for young Anglos to go strolling through in the evening.

That right?

[BillyBobUSA]

And theocracy worked so well for the Puritians....I don't see any of them around these days....

You subscribe to a false dichotomy, not to mention the falacy that the logical opposite of a secular society is a theocracy when a theocracy is not a form of society but of government.

Sort out your thoughts and read up some more and maybe we can try to discuss the subject reasonably.

[BillyBobUSA]

Is the absence of Secularism a Theocracy?

No.

A secular society, which is what I am discussing here is not a secular form of government. And the absence of a secular form of government does not equate to a theocracy anyway, lol.

[BillyBobUSA]

I vote for the latter, it's the most humanity deserves.


Hahah, then you first; lead by example is all I ask of you.

[Dem]

How is any of this Secularisms fault?

[BillyBobUSA]

How is any of this Secularisms fault?

Try reading the article, huh?

:lol:

[Dem]

Try reading the article, huh?

:lol:
Why don't you paraphrase for me? That way I know whether the article is worth reading.

[BillyBobUSA]

Why don't you paraphrase for me? That way I know whether the article is worth reading.


How about, no?

Read the article or your wasting my time.

[Cid the Engineer]

You're better off blaming education. There's an inverse correlation between # of children born to couples and their levels of education.

It's not secularism's fault that the West chooses not to breed like rabbits in order to win the population race with the evil Mooslims.

[angelicmadrigal]

You subscribe to a false dichotomy, not to mention the falacy that the logical opposite of a secular society is a theocracy when a theocracy is not a form of society but of government.

Sort out your thoughts and read up some more and maybe we can try to discuss the subject reasonably.

And who exactly dictates what is acceptable/not acceptable in society....Oh yeah the GOVERNMENT. at least as far as a legal standpoint.

[BillyBobUSA]

You're better off blaming education. There's an inverse correlation between # of children born to couples and their levels of education.

True, but then our educational system is very secular.

These trends do not hold true for people with religious educations, ie home-schooled and attending fundamentalist universities/colleges.


It's not secularism's fault that the West chooses not to breed like rabbits in order to win the population race with the evil Mooslims.

No, I think it actually is since secularism in its existential form of today or post-modern (take your pick) prizes individual fullfillment 100% over that of the fullfillment of obligations to the greater society.

Hence we have falling birth rates largely due to women that would rather have careers than children, yuppies that would ratehr have toys than children and adult-boys that would rather pursue pleasure than become responsible fathers.

I think all traces back to secularism offering cheap happiness over a deeper joy that is forward looking to concerns post 30 years old.

In fact looking beyond 5 years is rare in Western society today as we are conditioned for optimal consumerism.

:lol:

We are a dying society and while I dread the effect it has and will continue to have on the USA, seeing it gut Europe as European intuhlekshuals defend the very policies that seal their doom.

But I guess you have to have an Obamaesque morbid sense of humor to really see the humor in it all.

[BillyBobUSA]

And who exactly dictates what is acceptable/not acceptable in society....Oh yeah the GOVERNMENT. at least as far as a legal standpoint.

But then, again, I am talking about two very different things; social norms and natures judgement on us for having good norms or not.

I am not talking about the government doing anything.

Reading a post BEFORE responding to it really is key, dont you think?

[Dem]

Again. How is this Secularisms fault. All Secularism is, the belief that government and religion should be separate.

Where does this: No, I think it actually is since secularism in its existential form of today or post-modern (take your pick) prizes individual fullfillment 100% over that of the fullfillment of obligations to the greater society.

Come into play?

[BillyBobUSA]

Again. How is this Secularisms fault. All Secularism is, the belief that government and religion should be separate.

Where does this:

Come into play?

You dont seem to know what 'secular' means, in addition to refusing to read the article.

Is this your concept of analysis? Get the abridged version and then dump your predetermined judgement only afterwards?

sec⋅u⋅lar  /ˈsɛkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnglər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sek-yuh-ler] [/URL] Show IPA
–adjective 1.of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests. 2.not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to [URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sacred&db=luna"]sacred (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html) ): secular music. 3.(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.4.(of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=regular&db=luna) ).5.occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the secular games of Rome. 6.going on from age to age; continuing through long ages.


And again, I am talking about secular systems of values not secular government which is but one way that secular approaches can be applied.

Secular systems of values have replaced Christian systems of values since the end of the Second World War and mostly with the lead of our universities which long ago embraced a secular view of morality, around the 1900s if I recall correctly.

The article goes into detail about how many have been predicting the rise of Islamic cultures, which are not secularised cultures, within Europe. They predict this based on anticipated impacts that secular values has brought on our demographic rates of growth that have been born out so to speak.

So as Europe suffers from a population shrinkage, Islamic cultures grow at an amazing rate due to their system of values still reflecting a need for demographic growth.

The self-indulgence, materialism, consumerism and narcisism of secular values are killing off Western Civilization. In fact that civilization is already dead and people who use the phrase are just using an out-dated term.

Civilizations cannot survive when their members are unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good of that civilization and at least maintain the civilization as a binding concept.

So we can either choose to abandon secular systems of values and return to traditional ones that will keep our civilization competitive with Islamic civilization or we choose to be replaced by Islamic power within Europe first and eventually here in the Americas as well.

Sharia is the future for our grand children as long as we insist on secularism today for us.

[BillyBobUSA]

Bump for the chilluns!

[ThrowCop]

Seeing as how you ****ed all over Dem for asking a decent question...

I'll leave you & your thread to yourselves...

[BillyBobUSA]

Seeing as how you ****ed all over Dem for asking a decent question...

What question? He asked me to summarise the article; that question?


I'll leave you & your thread to yourselves...


Okie dokie.

Guess your regard for the facts of the matter cant overcome whatever insults you think I slung at Dem.

Too bad. You seemed so intelligent in other threads.

[BillyBobUSA]

So everyone is OK with the demographic collapse of Western Civiliztion?

It is interesting how people ignore questions untill they are engulfed with the problem up to their necks.

But it will be too late to fix the problem without stupid levels of violence if we wait too long.

What is the point in pretending this will just go away?

Ostrich-envy?

[captusa]

So everyone is OK with the demographic collapse of Western Civiliztion?

It is interesting how people ignore questions untill they are engulfed with the problem up to their necks.

But it will be too late to fix the problem without stupid levels of violence if we wait too long.

What is the point in pretending this will just go away?

Ostrich-envy?

"The report of the death of Western Civilization is an exaggeration."

[captusa]

But then, again, I am talking about two very different things; social norms and natures judgement on us for having good norms or not.

I am not talking about the government doing anything.

Reading a post BEFORE responding to it really is key, dont you think?

Foreward the article to Foxy Loxy.*

*literary reference

[BillyBobUSA]

"The report of the death of Western Civilization is an exaggeration."

Exagerated in what way?

Demographically?

Economically?

Socially?

Culturally?

Western Civilization has abandoned those cultural norms that has defeined it for more than a thousand years.

It has also abandoned any notion of sacrifice on the part of individuals for the greater good and so is shrinking demographically, is unable to control crime at all, and cannot even control who enters and leaves its borders.

Its member nations have no will to defend its own interests.

What is left of it is a hulk of populace that the multinational corproations are in the process of canibalising for maximum profit.

I would call that 'dead'.

[NascarGirl2448]

Hence we have falling birth rates largely due to women that would rather have careers than children, yuppies that would ratehr have toys than children and adult-boys that would rather pursue pleasure than become responsible fathers.

So basically you're blaming society's problems on career women and single parents. :rolleyes: In case you haven't noticed, society has evolved since the days when women did nothing but stay home all day.

[Prydz]

Bull.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/muslim-no-go-areas-in-britain-just-go-there/



Oh, yeah, do you feel comfortable walking through Derby’s Arboretum Park?

I hear that is a great place for young Anglos to go strolling through in the evening.

That right?

I wouldn't feel comfortable walking anywhere in Derby, the whole city is a dump.

I used to live 20 metre away from Brixton mosque, allegedly one of the most fundamental mosques in the country. Never had any problems, they were always very friendly to me and my girlfriend. You'd think if they had a problem then a mixed race couple might set them off, but the only hassle I ever had was trying to find a parking space on a Friday.

[King Cantona]

Oh, yeah, do you feel comfortable walking through Derby’s Arboretum Park?

I hear that is a great place for young Anglos to go strolling through in the evening.

That right?

You have the advantage of me there, to the best of my knowledge I've not had the pleasure of strolling happily through that park.....

[Dem]

Ah, I'd forgotten about this thread.

You dont seem to know what 'secular' means, in addition to refusing to read the article.
I asked for a summary. I don't have time to read every article on the net.

sec⋅u⋅lar  /ˈsɛkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnglər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sek-yuh-ler] Show IPA
–adjective 1.of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests. 2.not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sacred&db=luna) ): secular music. 3.(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.4.(of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=regular&db=luna) ).5.occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the secular games of Rome. 6.going on from age to age; continuing through long ages.
Good for you! You know what the word secular means! Now lets look at secularism:
sec⋅u⋅lar⋅ism

  <a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/S02/S0259600&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; /></a>  /ˈsɛkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngləˌrɪzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm/ http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html) Show Spelled Pronunc[sek-yuh-luh-riz-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html) Show IPA –noun 1. secular spirit or tendency, esp. a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship. 2. the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element.

And from Wikipedia:
Secularism is the assertion that governmental practices or institutions should exist separately from religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) and/or religious beliefs.


And again, I am talking about secular systems of values not secular government which is but one way that secular approaches can be applied.
What system of values do we secularists have?

Other than the separation of church of state secularists don't really have a set of social values.

The article goes into detail about how many have been predicting the rise of Islamic cultures, which are not secularised cultures, within Europe. They predict this based on anticipated impacts that secular values has brought on our demographic rates of growth that have been born out so to speak.
Which secular values are those?

So as Europe suffers from a population shrinkage, Islamic cultures grow at an amazing rate due to their system of values still reflecting a need for demographic growth.
Not secularisms fault.

The (1)self-indulgence, (2)materialism, (3)consumerism and (4)narcisism of secular values are killing off Western Civilization. In fact that civilization is already dead and people who use the phrase are just using an out-dated term.
1)Not a secular value
2)Not a secular value
3)Not a secular value
4)Not a secular value

Civilizations cannot survive when their members are unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good of that civilization and at least maintain the civilization as a binding concept.
Who is unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good?

Sharia is the future for our grand children as long as we insist on secularism today for us.
No it is not. How would a religious based system of laws, be put in place when secularism is about the separation of Church and State?

[King Cantona]

You dont seem to know what 'secular' means, in addition to refusing to read the article.

Can't say I blame him, any article posted by you is unlikely to be worth reading........

Just another obscure article that agrees with your minority worldview....

[captusa]

.......
Good for you! You know what the word secular means!....


Sorry for the pedantry but you cannot properly conclude that he knows what the word secular means.
I am not saying he does not know what the word secular means but
all you can conclude is that he knows how to cut and paste what the word secular means.

[BillyBobUSA]

So basically you're blaming society's problems on career women and single parents. :rolleyes:

No, I am not.

Good grief, my wife is a career woman, and several friends at work are also career women and all of them have had several children.

We can have population growth and women in careers also.

But not in the form of a narcicistic, materialistic and secular society.

This is killing us.


In case you haven't noticed, society has evolved since the days when women did nothing but stay home all day.

But the question is whether it has evolved in a good way.

Obviously it has not for us in the West.

[BillyBobUSA]

I wouldn't feel comfortable walking anywhere in Derby, the whole city is a dump.

I used to live 20 metre away from Brixton mosque, allegedly one of the most fundamental mosques in the country. Never had any problems, they were always very friendly to me and my girlfriend. You'd think if they had a problem then a mixed race couple might set them off, but the only hassle I ever had was trying to find a parking space on a Friday.


Yeah, and I have done the same thing in SE DC.

So it must be pretty safe too, right?

[BillyBobUSA]

Can't say I blame him, any article posted by you is unlikely to be worth reading........

And yet you read and post!

:lol:

Feel free to butt out any time you want.


Just another obscure article that agrees with your minority worldview....

Except it is not a minority worldview around the world; only in the West as it slumbers.

[BillyBobUSA]

Sorry for the pedantry but you cannot properly conclude that he knows what the word secular means.
I am not saying he does not know what the word secular means but
all you can conclude is that he knows how to cut and paste what the word secular means.


Hahahaha, good point.

Now only if it actually had any bearing on the topic.

[BillyBobUSA]

Ah, I'd forgotten about this thread.
Too bad; I was waiting on pins and needles.

I asked for a summary. I don't have time to read every article on the net.
Except nobody asked you to read EVERY article on the internet.
Just the one for this thread, lol.

Good for you! You know what the word secular means! Now lets look at secularism:
You are funny. You skip the first definition and then bold the second as though the first couldnt possibly have anything to do with the subject.
Here, let me help you: "1. secular spirit or tendency, esp. a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship."
Yep, that is the definition of the word secularism that I am using, which is obvious in the context I have been using it in.
Ah, silly old you.

What system of values do we secularists have?
Many, but they all have in common the rejection of any religious insight or experience.

Other than the separation of church of state secularists don't really have a set of social values.
Sure they do. They are varied, but have many things in common, like a deep appreciation for hedonism.

Who is unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good?
Almost everyone these days.

No it is not. How would a religious based system of laws, be put in place when secularism is about the separation of Church and State?
Oh sure it is. Secularism cannot compete with Islam as the Islamacists simply could not care less what any secularists think about anything.
Once they have the uppre hand and Shariah is in place, secularists will be beheaded or self-silenced.
Have fun.

[Sketch]

BillyBob - the answer is obvious. We need to determine which invisible man upin the sky is the biggest and baddest.

[The Bos'un]

Question: Since Secularism has Caused the Death of Western Civilization, can We Get a Redo?

Answer: NO. We are at the will and mercy of G-d.

[The Bos'un]

Sketch it is much more complicated than that. Read history...

[The Bos'un]

BillyBobUSA,

You are correct.....

[BillyBobUSA]

BillyBob - the answer is obvious. We need to determine which invisible man upin the sky is the biggest and baddest.


It seems that the answer for the majority of secularists these days is almost always mockery and sarcasm.

It's all you folks have.

Meanwhile these traditional values, which were established through the evolution of our society through harsh times of warfare and strife, have been rejected for no other reason than that they have become out of style in the view of a soft-minded, effeminate, lazy cultural elite unworthy of survival in its current guise.

But reform will come or our nation will die, and I think far too many still love this country for that to happpen though Europe is likely lost I admit.

But for secularists like you, Sketch, its lose-lose. If the traditionalists fail to restore our nations cultural strength, the other outcome left is rule by an Islamic state and you will have leaped from the proverbial frying pan and into the fire itself.

[BillyBobUSA]

Question: Since Secularism has Caused the Death of Western Civilization, can We Get a Redo?

Answer: NO. We are at the will and mercy of G-d.


But God is merciful.

Maybe if a remnant repent we might be spared His full wrath?

There is always room for hope as God's mercy is renewed every morning.

Perhaps there still remains a morning for us also?

[BillyBobUSA]

BillyBobUSA,

You are correct.....


Thank you.

But it is really not me being correct, it is our traditional system of values and I point to them.

BTW, do you think Isreal can ever stop Hamas from firing those rockets?

Isreal is a Western country, culturally, and the observations of Rupert Murdock I think acurate in that they are a test case for us.

But they have twice now invaded Gaza with much blood-shed to stop the rocket attacks and have failed.

Do you think their malady is related to our own?

I think it is.

[Sketch]

It seems that the answer for the majority of secularists these days is almost always mockery and sarcasm.

It's all you folks have.

Meanwhile these traditional values, which were established through the evolution of our society through harsh times of warfare and strife, have been rejected for no other reason than that they have become out of style in the view of a soft-minded, effeminate, lazy cultural elite unworthy of survival in its current guise.

But reform will come or our nation will die, and I think far too many still love this country for that to happpen though Europe is likely lost I admit.

But for secularists like you, Sketch, its lose-lose. If the traditionalists fail to restore our nations cultural strength, the other outcome left is rule by an Islamic state and you will have leaped from the proverbial frying pan and into the fire itself.Really? There’s a frying pan in Proverbs? Who knew?

But to your post – I don’t think anyone can win a battle of myths. And I think that Islam is today where Christianity was several hundred years ago, the difference being, it’s a lot easier to kill lots of people now than it was back then. We need to fight when that’s appropriate, but we also need a long term solution, which is to teach people how to think – and further how to think critically. Thinking and dogma don’t go together well, and critical thinking is like dogma repellent.

[BillyBobUSA]

Really? There’s a frying pan in Proverbs? Who knew?

More sarcasm from you; who would have guessed it?


But to your post – I don’t think anyone can win a battle of myths. And I think that Islam is today where Christianity was several hundred years ago, the difference being, it’s a lot easier to kill lots of people now than it was back then. We need to fight when that’s appropriate, but we also need a long term solution, which is to teach people how to think – and further how to think critically.

What arrogance, to assume that those who disagree with you cannot think! :lol:

I assure you that the Ayatollah Khomenie, Prince Abdullah of the Saudis or the Pope could think circles around you.


Thinking and dogma don’t go together well, and critical thinking is like dogma repellent.

In your incredibly ignorant opinion.

Dogma is the source of most of the acquaintance that Westerners have acquired with formal logic and reason due to the debates between denominations in Christianity and the same is true of Islam.

:lol:

[Sketch]

More sarcasm from you; who would have guessed it?




What arrogance, to assume that those who disagree with you cannot think! :lol:

I assure you that the Ayatollah Khomenie, Prince Abdullah of the Saudis or the Pope could think circles around you.




In your incredibly ignorant opinion.

Dogma is the source of most of the acquaintance that Westerners have acquired with formal logic and reason due to the debates between denominations in Christianity and the same is true of Islam.

:lol:Tell me, how does one apply good critical thinking to … I dunno… a bush that burns and talks at the same time? Or the reward of 72 virgins in paradise for blowing yourself up… or a snake that talks…or…you’re a smart guy, you know what I am talking about.

[The Bos'un]

I look at America and the west perhaps going through the same thing that the Hebrew people did throughout history. Or perhaps we are living in the nearer end times. The Book of Revelation lays out what will happen. We live under G-d grace, the Jews have a different covenant with G-d.

[King Cantona]

And yet you read and post!

:lol:

Feel free to butt out any time you want.

What can I say, I'm a sociable guy.......




Except it is not a minority worldview around the world; only in the West as it slumbers.

I disagree, you say Western Civilisation has died. Well I will steal Mark Twain's quote, "stories of the death of Western Civilisation are grossly exaggerated"....

But good luck with your cloud cuckoo fantasies about 'no go Muslim areas' in Britain.....:rolleyes:.....

[BillyBobUSA]

Tell me, how does one apply good critical thinking to … I dunno… a bush that burns and talks at the same time? Or the reward of 72 virgins in paradise for blowing yourself up… or a snake that talks…or…you’re a smart guy, you know what I am talking about.


Miraculous events are exceptions to the norm and are not supposed to be critically evaluated themselves except as symbols.

There are some things best understood intuitively and not by logic.

You should know that by now.

They do not apply to the subject of the OP which is that the values and culture that made Western civilization thrive have been abandoned and the ill effects are easily perceivable.

Why stick with this loser values system that we have with secularism and go back to a more traditional morality and culture?

[BillyBobUSA]

What can I say, I'm a sociable guy.......



I disagree, you say Western Civilisation has died. Well I will steal Mark Twain's quote, "stories of the death of Western Civilisation are grossly exaggerated"....

But good luck with your cloud cuckoo fantasies about 'no go Muslim areas' in Britain.....:rolleyes:.....

I would say 'just remember you said that' but I know that when the nogo areas become too numerous to ignore, you will claim to have predicted the situation all along.

See ya.

[King Cantona]

I would say 'just remember you said that' but I know that when the nogo areas become too numerous to ignore, you will claim to have predicted the situation all along.

See ya.

Why? Is that what you'd do BillyBob?..........

You should get a job working for The Daily Mail, you'd fit right in...............:))...............

[BillyBobUSA]

Why? Is that what you'd do BillyBob?..........

:lol:

No, but it is what I have experienced with the mortgage backed security fiasco and toher things. People I used to argue the point with are now telling me that they knew this was going to happpen! One even told me about how he was telling me more than a year ago, lol.

People are just that way, I guess.

You should get a job working for The Daily Mail, you'd fit right in...............:))...............

A Brit paper?

Would I have to live in England?

No thank you.

[Sketch]

Miraculous events are exceptions to the norm and are not supposed to be critically evaluated themselves except as symbols.

There are some things best understood intuitively and not by logic.

You should know that by now.

They do not apply to the subject of the OP which is that the values and culture that made Western civilization thrive have been abandoned and the ill effects are easily perceivable.

Why stick with this loser values system that we have with secularism and go back to a more traditional morality and culture?

Just so we're clear - critical thinking should not be applied to miraculous events - did I get that right?

[BillyBobUSA]

Just so we're clear - critical thinking should not be applied to miraculous events - did I get that right?

To the miraculous events themselves, yes.

The miraculous exceedes the normal limits and so logic does not apply as to how it is done.

For instance the Resurrection of Christ was a miracle, obviously, and one can use critical thought to analyze all the events surrounding the event, but not the event itself.

No one truly knows exactly how Christ was resurrected, but only that it happened.

[Sketch]

To the miraculous events themselves, yes.

The miraculous exceedes the normal limits and so logic does not apply as to how it is done.

For instance the Resurrection of Christ was a miracle, obviously, and one can use critical thought to analyze all the events surrounding the event, but not the event itself.

No one truly knows exactly how Christ was resurrected, but only that it happened.

Not exactly - nobody "knows" that Jesus came back to life, but lots of people "believe" (or claim to believe) that he did.

Meanwhile, back at my original point, the best way to dismantle the threat of fundamentalist Islam is to teach critical thinking because it makes the mythical and often dangerous ideas impossible to believe. It will require that the rest of us give up our attachment to our invisible friends, but for the sake of human kind it should be worth it.

[King Cantona]

A Brit paper?

Would I have to live in England?

No thank you.

They could probably make you US correspondent, then you could stay living in your ivory tower....;).....

[Marleysdaddy]

No one truly knows exactly how Christ was resurrected, but only that it happened.

This is the type of sentence that makes me skeptical of any of your claims that you are scientifically minded.

[captusa]

What can I say, I'm a sociable guy.......



I disagree, you say Western Civilisation has died. Well I will steal Mark Twain's quote, "stories of the death of Western Civilisation are grossly exaggerated"....

But good luck with your cloud cuckoo fantasies about 'no go Muslim areas' in Britain.....:rolleyes:.....


I had already stolen it but I guess it's worth repeating a 3rd time.
http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=51491081&postcount=24


"The report of the death of Western Civilization is an exaggeration."

[captusa]

Not exactly - nobody "knows" that Jesus came back to life, but lots of people "believe" (or claim to believe) that he did.

Meanwhile, back at my original point, the best way to dismantle the threat of fundamentalist Islam is to teach critical thinking because it makes the mythical and often dangerous ideas impossible to believe. It will require that the rest of us give up our attachment to our invisible friends, but for the sake of human kind it should be worth it.

Does BillyBobUSA know that if he is banned on the RF he can't introduce religious topics on other forums ?

[Prydz]

They could probably make you US correspondent, then you could stay living in your ivory tower....;).....
That works for Littlejohn

[captusa]

It seems that the answer for the majority of secularists these days is almost always mockery and sarcasm.

It's all you folks have.
.......

If one checks back one would probably find that you have resorted to mockery, sarcasm and insult* far more often than sketch of most others on this forum and do you know that if one is banned on the RF he can't introduce religious topics on other forums ?
*A recent example:
More sarcasm from you; who would have guessed it?

...............


What arrogance, to assume that those who disagree with you cannot think! :lol:
.........
I assure you that the Ayatollah Khomenie, Prince Abdullah of the Saudis or the Pope could think circles around you.




In your incredibly ignorant opinion.
.....:lol:
..... ommision and enlargement mine

[Marleysdaddy]

Does BillyBobUSA know that if he is banned on the RF he can't introduce religious topics on other forums ?

Be sure to remind him of that when he returns from his one week timeout.

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1390491