Hossa a life-long Red Wing?

[alexz2317]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Hossa-will-take-less-money-to-remain-with-Red-Wi;_ylt=AoBRaxsDhqQpO73S2Od7JDlD2bYF?urn=nhl,14982 0


Holland you genious!

Anybody else like this?

[Dr. Funkenstein]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Hossa-will-take-less-money-to-remain-with-Red-Wi;_ylt=AoBRaxsDhqQpO73S2Od7JDlD2bYF?urn=nhl,14982 0


Holland you genious!

Anybody else like this?

It'd be difficult, considering the cap number next year might be going down, and Detroit's got some pricey talent.

But I suspect Holland might be able to pull it off.

[alexz2317]

It'd be difficult, considering the cap number next year might be going down, and Detroit's got some pricey talent.

But I suspect Holland might be able to pull it off.
He's willing to take less money it sounds like. As long as it's reasonable. This will leave Pen's fans fuming :))

[iamredbeard]

I have viewed him this year as a one year rental. We don't have a lot of cap space. Around 9.5 mil and only have 7 forwards and 1 goalie signed for next season and according to most of the articles that I have read the cap will stay the same. I know that there is a lot of talk about keeping both Hossa and Franzen. But if that were to happen then Filppula will probably be traded, Hudler and Sammy won't be back next year and we'd probably have to find a place that Stuart would go as he has a no trade clause. This was also reported for a local Detroit paper. http://www.freep.com/article/20090323/SPORTS05/903230384/1053/SPORTS05/Hossa+says+he+ll+take+less+money+to+stay+in+Detroi t

[alexz2317]

I have viewed him this year as a one year rental. We don't have a lot of cap space. Around 9.5 mil and only have 7 forwards and 1 goalie signed for next season and according to most of the articles that I have read the cap will stay the same. I know that there is a lot of talk about keeping both Hossa and Franzen. But if that were to happen then Filppula will probably be traded, Hudler and Sammy won't be back next year and we'd probably have to find a place that Stuart would go as he has a no trade clause. This was also reported for a local Detroit paper. http://www.freep.com/article/20090323/SPORTS05/903230384/1053/SPORTS05/Hossa+says+he+ll+take+less+money+to+stay+in+Detroi t
Well, you know that Holland is thinking about all the variables in this. He's a smart guy, he knows what he is doing. The NHL tried to break the Wings with the implementation of a cap, but it only hurt Colorado. We'll see what the NHL Brass has in store for us this time.

[iamredbeard]

Well, you know that Holland is thinking about all the variables in this. He's a smart guy, he knows what he is doing. The NHL tried to break the Wings with the implementation of a cap, but it only hurt Colorado. We'll see what the NHL Brass has in store for us this time.

And it did break up the Wings, but the salary cap kept increasing by crazy amounts every year and then the Wings farm system kept bring up great young players who are now our core players. Zetterberg is making less than 2 mil this year, Franzen is making less than 1 mil. That plus players love coming here so we keep doing well during free agency. Most hockey insiders say that Holland is at the top of the list when it comes to GM's, they say the same thing about the Red Wings scouting department.

[alexz2317]

And it did break up the Wings, but the salary cap kept increasing by crazy amounts every year and then the Wings farm system kept bring up great young players who are now our core players. Zetterberg is making less than 2 mil this year, Franzen is making less than 1 mil. That plus players love coming here so we keep doing well during free agency. Most hockey insiders say that Holland is at the top of the list when it comes to GM's, they say the same thing about the Red Wings scouting department.
Well our GM and Scouting is up at the top in professional sports too. We have arguable two of the best players in the NHL in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and they were late draft picks. And I read a great article about the Wings. The evolution of the team throught the last 10-15 years. We went from Yzerman, Federov and Shanny to Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen all while going through the salary cap, the lockout and remained the best team. 9 straight seasons with at least 100 points. They are a dynasty!

[Dr. Funkenstein]

He's willing to take less money it sounds like. As long as it's reasonable. This will leave Pen's fans fuming :))

http://letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php

As of right now, I suspect it's going to be difficult and require A LOT of creativity.

For next year, Detroit's already committed to about $47.3M. The projected cap is going to be somewhere around $57M.

The following are UFA's...Conklin, Chelios, Kopecky, Franzen, Samuelsson and Hossa. Hudler is an RFA. Then you've got Holmstrom, Lidstrom and Maltby to re-sign in 09/10.

And if this doesn't turn out to be a Cup year in Detroit, they're probably going to be in hte market for a goalie (no idea what THAT market is going to look like).

Hossa's going to need to take A LOT less money (I'm thinking somewhere in the area of under $2M) for this to work. I don't know if he'll do that.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Well, you know that Holland is thinking about all the variables in this. He's a smart guy, he knows what he is doing. The NHL tried to break the Wings with the implementation of a cap, but it only hurt Colorado. We'll see what the NHL Brass has in store for us this time.

Pretty sure they had the Rangers in mind, but here you go...

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/kutcherside.jpg

;)

[alexz2317]

Pretty sure they had the Rangers in mind, but here you go...

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/kutcherside.jpg

;)
I forgot about the Rangers but I don't have the ESPN East Coast Bias in me! :)) And yes I am a homer

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I forgot about the Rangers but I don't have the ESPN East Coast Bias in me! :)) And yes I am a homer

There's also something to be said for enforcing a salary floor to make teams like Boston and Montreal spend the money they take in. Jeremy Jacobs wouldn't drop a red cent into the Bruins until he didn't have a choice in the matter and now look at the B's, you know?

Philly was also a pretty big pre-cap spender, except for the goaltending position...but I really don't think the NHL wanted to destroy any teams with the cap.

I think it would have been better to off-load the Kings, Stars, Panthers, Lightning, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes, Thrashers and Coyotes in order to stabilize the league, but that's just me.

[alexz2317]

There's also something to be said for enforcing a salary floor to make teams like Boston and Montreal spend the money they take in. Jeremy Jacobs wouldn't drop a red cent into the Bruins until he didn't have a choice in the matter and now look at the B's, you know?

Philly was also a pretty big pre-cap spender, except for the goaltending position...but I really don't think the NHL wanted to destroy any teams with the cap.

I think it would have been better to off-load the Kings, Stars, Panthers, Lightning, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes, Thrashers and Coyotes in order to stabilize the league, but that's just me.
In my honest opinion, I think the B's are one year wonders. Thomas is at the later stage of his career.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

In my honest opinion, I think the B's are one year wonders. Thomas is at the later stage of his career.

Thomas has a few years left. He doesn't have the wear because he hasn't been around as long.

And they're pretty young...Kessell is really good, Chara's a beast, Wideman (who hopefully will be back for the playoffs but I don't know) is solid. I saw them live in Philly last month and they're just relentless.

But not the point, really...five years ago, there wouldn't have been a way in hell Boston would have signed Chara.

[badkarma]

He's willing to take less money it sounds like. As long as it's reasonable. This will leave Pen's fans fuming :))
Nah. I am a Pens fan, and I wouldn't be fuming. I think Detroit overpaid him and I would not have been happy had the Pens offered him as much. Sure, he is an excellent player, but worth 1/6th of Detroits payroll? That is superstar money, for a skilled offensive player who only has 65 points this year. Detroit is welcome to keep him at that price.

Also, keep in mind that Hossa made strikingly similar comments about remaining with the Penguins last year.

ETA: Oh, and I am relatively certain that the salary cap was not to punish any specific team, but to give small market teams the chance to remain consistently competitive.

[iamredbeard]

Nah. I am a Pens fan, and I wouldn't be fuming. I think Detroit overpaid him and I would not have been happy had the Pens offered him as much. Sure, he is an excellent player, but worth 1/6th of Detroits payroll? That is superstar money, for a skilled offensive player who only has 65 points this year. Detroit is welcome to keep him at that price.

Also, keep in mind that Hossa made strikingly similar comments about remaining with the Penguins last year.

ETA: Oh, and I am relatively certain that the salary cap was not to punish any specific team, but to give small market teams the chance to remain consistently competitive.

Detroit won't overpay him. They'll give him less then he will get on the open market. From what I am hearing they are talking about an annual cap hit between what Zetterberg gets and what Datsyuk gets. That would be a cap hit between 6.08 mil and 6.7 mil. I wouldn't call that overpaying for him. Considering during free agency he was getting offers off more than 8 mil per season.

[iamredbeard]

Nah. I am a Pens fan, and I wouldn't be fuming. I think Detroit overpaid him and I would not have been happy had the Pens offered him as much. Sure, he is an excellent player, but worth 1/6th of Detroits payroll? That is superstar money, for a skilled offensive player who only has 65 points this year. Detroit is welcome to keep him at that price.

Also, keep in mind that Hossa made strikingly similar comments about remaining with the Penguins last year.

ETA: Oh, and I am relatively certain that the salary cap was not to punish any specific team, but to give small market teams the chance to remain consistently competitive.

Also wanted to mention that I am aware of what Hossa did last year and I think this is much of the same. I don't expect him to sign a long term contract with the Wings.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Detroit won't overpay him. They'll give him less then he will get on the open market. From what I am hearing they are talking about an annual cap hit between what Zetterberg gets and what Datsyuk gets. That would be a cap hit between 6.08 mil and 6.7 mil. I wouldn't call that overpaying for him. Considering during free agency he was getting offers off more than 8 mil per season.

Can they afford that with 9 million in space and others (Lindstrom, for example) who are going to need to be extended next year?

My best guess is that they'd need to sign Hossa to at least a three-year deal, and backload that bad boy as much as possible (I don't remember the NHL's rules on that).

[badkarma]

Detroit won't overpay him. They'll give him less then he will get on the open market. From what I am hearing they are talking about an annual cap hit between what Zetterberg gets and what Datsyuk gets. That would be a cap hit between 6.08 mil and 6.7 mil. I wouldn't call that overpaying for him. Considering during free agency he was getting offers off more than 8 mil per season.
Obviously this is all opinion, and there is more to it than scoring, but Hossa is not worth 6 million a year. He has good numbers, yes, but he is still only what, 32nd in scoring? Eric Staal is making 4.5 this year, almost 3 million less than Hossa, but putting up similar numbers on a worse team. Actually, looking at some of the the numbers, the 4-5 million range seems to be about what those with similar stats as Hossa are making this year, I cant see why he should be making any more than that.

he is the 7th highest paid player in the league this year, and has not really done anything to warrant that pay next year. He says he is willing to take less, but I personally think any team would be foolish to pay him anywhere near what he is currently making, especially when they have so many other people they would like to keep.

[alexz2317]

He's 32nd in Points, Tied for 6th with 36 goals.

[iamredbeard]

Can they afford that with 9 million in space and others (Lindstrom, for example) who are going to need to be extended next year?

My best guess is that they'd need to sign Hossa to at least a three-year deal, and backload that bad boy as much as possible (I don't remember the NHL's rules on that).

Well some player would obviously have to be moved. The talk in the local papers is to get Hossa and Franzen both signed to an annual combined cap hit of 10 mil. Of course that puts us over the cap limit so some players would have to be moved. My best guess is that Filppulla, Stuart or Kronwall would then be traded to give us the cap space needed to fill out our roster.

[iamredbeard]

Obviously this is all opinion, and there is more to it than scoring, but Hossa is not worth 6 million a year. He has good numbers, yes, but he is still only what, 32nd in scoring? Eric Staal is making 4.5 this year, almost 3 million less than Hossa, but putting up similar numbers on a worse team. Actually, looking at some of the the numbers, the 4-5 million range seems to be about what those with similar stats as Hossa are making this year, I cant see why he should be making any more than that.

he is the 7th highest paid player in the league this year, and has not really done anything to warrant that pay next year. He says he is willing to take less, but I personally think any team would be foolish to pay him anywhere near what he is currently making, especially when they have so many other people they would like to keep.

He has good solid numbers. Right now he is making 7.4 mil for this season. If he hit the open market he'll get more than what he is currently getting. Last off-season he was getting offers north of 8 mil per season and his stock hasn't dropped off. I can see him getting those kind of offers again.

[badkarma]

He has good solid numbers. Right now he is making 7.4 mil for this season. If he hit the open market he'll get more than what he is currently getting. Last off-season he was getting offers north of 8 mil per season and his stock hasn't dropped off. I can see him getting those kind of offers again.
I don't doubt that he would get those offers. But just because he is getting the offers does not mean he is worth that much.

And you are absolutely correct, he does have good solid numbers. is that worth 7.4 million? Is it worth it to make a man with solid numbers, not great or spectacular, the 7th highest paid player in the game?

Don't get me wrong, I like Hossa. I think he would be a good addition to any team he played for, and the Wings would do well if they could keep him for a reasonable price. I just think that he is overrated and not worth 7.4 that the wings are giving him this year, and certainly not worth more than that next year. The fact that he will probably get more if he leaves the wings doesn't mean that he deserves it.

[iamredbeard]

I don't doubt that he would get those offers. But just because he is getting the offers does not mean he is worth that much.

And you are absolutely correct, he does have good solid numbers. is that worth 7.4 million? Is it worth it to make a man with solid numbers, not great or spectacular, the 7th highest paid player in the game?

Don't get me wrong, I like Hossa. I think he would be a good addition to any team he played for, and the Wings would do well if they could keep him for a reasonable price. I just think that he is overrated and not worth 7.4 that the wings are giving him this year, and certainly not worth more than that next year. The fact that he will probably get more if he leaves the wings doesn't mean that he deserves it.

Only reason we gave him that much is because it was a one year deal. If we re-sign, which is being talked about in the Detroit media and which is something I don't think will happen. Isn't this the same song and dance that he did last year with the Penguins? Anyways if he signs with us it would be in the ballpark of around 6 mil a season. I keep hearing that he is in talks for a contract similar to the one that Zetterberg signed last month.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Only reason we gave him that much is because it was a one year deal. If we re-sign, which is being talked about in the Detroit media and which is something I don't think will happen. Isn't this the same song and dance that he did last year with the Penguins? Anyways if he signs with us it would be in the ballpark of around 6 mil a season. I keep hearing that he is in talks for a contract similar to the one that Zetterberg signed last month.

Zetterburg counts 7M+ against the cap next year.

Do you think it's wise to have 28% of their cap wrapped up in two guys?

Personally, I think they'll keep the younger guys like Filippula, Stuart and Kronwall, let Hossa walk, and re-up Lidstrom late next season.

[scmarcos]

There is no back loading in an NHL contract I believe. The total contract is guaranteed and spread out amongst the years.

[iamredbeard]

Zetterburg counts 7M+ against the cap next year.

Do you think it's wise to have 28% of their cap wrapped up in two guys?

Personally, I think they'll keep the younger guys like Filippula, Stuart and Kronwall, let Hossa walk, and re-up Lidstrom late next season.

That would be incorrect my friend. Because if he isn't making much in the last few years of the contract the cap hit will be 6.08 mil. The contract was 12 years/73 mil. I'll try and find a link for the break of contract for ya.

[iamredbeard]

Zetterburg counts 7M+ against the cap next year.

Do you think it's wise to have 28% of their cap wrapped up in two guys?

Personally, I think they'll keep the younger guys like Filippula, Stuart and Kronwall, let Hossa walk, and re-up Lidstrom late next season.

Here is the article that I was talking about. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/01/the_red_wings_made_it.html And also I agree with you, it would be better to let Hossa walk, get Franzen signed to a long term deal, he's the kind of player we have wanted for a long time, and keep some of our other cheaper players.

[iamredbeard]

There is no back loading in an NHL contract I believe. The total contract is guaranteed and spread out amongst the years.

That would be correct.

[alexz2317]

Hossa just scored. 2-1 Wings with less than 2:00 minutes left in the game!

[iamredbeard]

Since this thread has discussed the Wings cap situation, I thought I'd post this link that explains things pretty well. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/03/contract_talks_between_red_win_1.html

If we can only sign Franzen or Hossa, which I think will be the case. I would take Franzen. We have been wanting a big forward with great hands for a long time and I don't see how we can let him go. If we sign them both some players will have to leave. I don't see Cleary or Stuart waiving their no trade clause os if we traded players for cap space then I think Filppula and Kronwall would probably be the ones to go. So say we trade them both sand sign Franzen and Hossa with a combined annual cap hit of 10 mil. That would mean that we have 18 )2 goalies, 7 defenseman, and 9 forwards) players signed at about 53.5 in cap space and assuming the article is right that the cap will be at 58 mil next year, then we would have around 4.5 mil to sign 4-5 forwards. Sammy and Hudler would both likely be gone. Maybe we can get Leino signed for what he is making now and Abdelkader might make the team, that would bring us to under 3 mil in cap space. Might finish out the roster with Kopecky and Downey, each are making 500k this year and probably would sign for that same amount. Leaving us around 1.5 mil in cap space, not a great situation but that's the way that I see things happening if we get both Hossa or Franzen. I would rather that we re-sign Franzen and keep Filpulla and Kronwall and let Hossa go. Thank him for what he did for us this year and wish him the best of luck.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

That would be incorrect my friend. Because if he isn't making much in the last few years of the contract the cap hit will be 6.08 mil. The contract was 12 years/73 mil. I'll try and find a link for the break of contract for ya.

http://letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php

This is where I was getting my numbers from.

[iamredbeard]

http://letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php

This is where I was getting my numbers from.

The problem with that site is that it shows how much they will be making next year and not what their cap hit is. The cap hit is the average amoung of money that he'll be making through the length of the contract. Take Filppula as an example, they have him at 2 mil, which is what he is making but him cap hit is 3 mil. This is a better layout for the players of the Wings cap hit. http://www.redwingscentral.com/features/orgchart.php

[scmarcos]

That is correct. Payment doesn't matter. NHL figures out cap hits by averaging the total contract over number of years. It is also calculated daily I believe, to take into consideration people coming up and going down to the minors or being waived and sent to the minors.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

The problem with that site is that it shows how much they will be making next year and not what their cap hit is. The cap hit is the average amoung of money that he'll be making through the length of the contract. Take Filppula as an example, they have him at 2 mil, which is what he is making but him cap hit is 3 mil. This is a better layout for the players of the Wings cap hit. http://www.redwingscentral.com/features/orgchart.php

I was under the impression they ran it like the NFL's cap, where the only thing that gets averaged over the life of the deal is the bonus money.

[iamredbeard]

I was under the impression they ran it like the NFL's cap, where the only thing that gets averaged over the life of the deal is the bonus money.

Nope the NHL cap doesn't work like that. Some GM's have voiced complaints about some of the long contracts that are given out in which the last few years they don't get much to lower the cap hit. Take the recent Zetterberg contract as an example. there will be seasons that he is making 7.75 mil, but his cap hit will only be 6.08, but it will also be 6.08 the last two years of his contract where he is only making 1 mil a season.

[scmarcos]

Nope the NHL cap doesn't work like that. Some GM's have voiced complaints about some of the long contracts that are given out in which the last few years they don't get much to lower the cap hit. Take the recent Zetterberg contract as an example. there will be seasons that he is making 7.75 mil, but his cap hit will only be 6.08, but it will also be 6.08 the last two years of his contract where he is only making 1 mil a season.

Then they should have structured the deal differently. There were probably years he was making well over the the cap hit.

[iamredbeard]

Then they should have structured the deal differently. There were probably years he was making well over the the cap hit.

Here is a link showing his year by year breakdown of the money he will be getting. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/01/the_red_wings_made_it.html

[scmarcos]

So for 9 years out of the 12 year deal they are actually saving money on the cap hit compared to the Salary, me thinks they should quit their bitching.

[iamredbeard]

So for 9 years out of the 12 year deal they are actually saving money on the cap hit compared to the Salary, me thinks they should quit their bitching.

The Wings love the deal, other GM around the league have spoken up against it, saying stuff like the Wings are finding away to get around the salary cap.

[scmarcos]

The Wings love the deal, other GM around the league have spoken up against it, saying stuff like the Wings are finding away to get around the salary cap.

I don't see it.

[iamredbeard]

I don't see it.

Well you know how some people are. They aren't happy unless they can find something to complain about. ;)