Teen dies when police use Taser on him

[jimjames418]

Lead in to the article:
BAY CITY, Mich. - Officers killed a 15-year-old boy with a Taser while trying to break up a fight, police said yesterday.
The officers did not "kill" the kid, he died after being tasered. An investigation is being conducted to determine the cause of death and events leading up to the tasering.

This is why I do not like the MSM. The MSM does nothing but slant all the stories to place blame on the police officers.

ETA: LINK (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/03/23/teen_dies_when_police_use_taser_on_him/)

[Scarlet37]

Two males were arguing in an apartment, and one of them "attempted to fight the officers," a police statement said.

Moral of the story: Don't fight the police

[sgtmac_46]

Moral of the story: Don't fight the police Wonder how how that kid was? May explain the original disturbance that caused the calls for the police to respond AND him fighting the police when they showed up AND his death!

Another 'Taser' death......years ago I remember hearing about how 'Pepper spray' was killing people in identical situations. http://mediafilter.org/caq/caq56pepper.html

Published on February 17, 1999

It happened again. Another African-American man died mysteriously in police custody. This time it was Michael Ealy, 35, picked up December 28 while running wildly through traffic on Dexter Avenue. Ealy was apparently delirious on drugs—cocaine was later detected in his blood—and was restrained with pepper spray and handcuffs after he attacked paramedics and police officers on the scene. He died at Harborview Medical Center seven hours later.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/1999-02-17/news/death-by-pepper-spray.php

Fortunately for Pepperspray, the Taser M26 came out one year later, and became the boogie man du jour for people who get so high on cocaine they DIE!

Before THAT it was the dreaded 'Choke Hold'! :eek: http://www.ebji.org/akeem/choke.html





Funny how the type of FORCE alleged to be causing these deaths keeps changing.......but the other circumstances of the deaths (Cocaine/Meth/PCP use, aggression, excited delirium) keep remaining the same.......LOGIC tells us that if one variable keeps changing, but the outcome keeps remaining the same.....that THAT variable is not the cause of the outcome. ;)

[janer]

[QUOTE=jimjames418;51302851]Lead in to the article:

The officers did not "kill" the kid, he died after being tasered. An investigation is being conducted to determine the cause of death and events leading up to the tasering.

This is why I do not like the MSM. The MSM does nothing but slant all the stories to place blame on the police officers.

If it is determined that he died as a result of being Tasered, then saying that the person who Tasered the boy didn't kill him is like saying the jump and fall didn't kill him, it was the collision with the ground.
The fact is, while cops may Taser each other in police training to gauge the sensation of the instrument, the effect may be quite different on a young healthy male than on someone who has a pacemaker, heart disease, a seizure disorder. With authority comes responsibility.

[Scarlet37]

[QUOTE=jimjames418;51302851]Lead in to the article:

The officers did not "kill" the kid, he died after being tasered. An investigation is being conducted to determine the cause of death and events leading up to the tasering.

This is why I do not like the MSM. The MSM does nothing but slant all the stories to place blame on the police officers.

If it is determined that he died as a result of being Tasered, then saying that the person who Tasered the boy didn't kill him is like saying the jump and fall didn't kill him, it was the collision with the ground.
The fact is, while cops may Taser each other in police training to gauge the sensation of the instrument, the effect may be quite different on a young healthy male than on someone who has a pacemaker, heart disease, a seizure disorder. With authority comes responsibility.

How tightly are we going to tie the hands of our police officers? Should they not be allowed to defend/protect themselves at all?

[sgdp]

The police did kill the boy. Whether it was intentional or not does not matter.

[MrShotShot]

I liked the good old days where the cops just used night sticks and pistols.

[angelicmadrigal]

I wonder if tasers can cause aggravations of heart conditions.

[Dreamy]

The police did kill the boy. Whether it was intentional or not does not matter.

What was the cause of death per autopsy?


Independent Study on LE Taser Use

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071008080329.htm

[Dreamy]

I wonder if tasers can cause aggravations of heart conditions.


Like ingesting or shooting up harmful "pleasure" chemicals might? Like running fast and hard from a cop might? Like trying to fight with a cop while high might?

Hmmm....lots of possiblilities.

[badkarma]

The police did kill the boy. Whether it was intentional or not does not matter.
Nonsense. If the boy had not tried to fight the Police, he would in all likelihood be alive right now. He made the decision to fight, knowing full well that there would be consequences to such an act.

[sgdp]

Nonsense. If the boy had not tried to fight the Police, he would in all likelihood be alive right now. He made the decision to fight, knowing full well that there would be consequences to such an act.

What is nonsense? You pretty much iterated my exact point. :think:

I've been through a Taser seminar before. They did discuss potential heart problems caused by prior defects or being all cracked out, and have thus ruled the weapon as "less than lethal force".

I also know an officer who was injured after Tasering a fleeing subject. The subject crashed his car into a garage, which apparently spilled some gasoline or other flammable materials. When my friend approached and the subject fought with him, he pulled out his Taser and....


KABOOM!

I have been at police trainings where volunteers were Tased. In my state, they require all who carry to be Tased, so they know the extent of the damage they're causing and are thus less likely to become trigger-happy.

All the precautions in the world, but from a police officer's POV, safety for the police and the community comes first. A fleeing or fighting subject? Way back in second.

[LouC]

They must have edited the article because this is what it is reads now:

BAY CITY, Mich. - Police say a 15-year-old boy has died after being Tasered while they tried to break up a fight.

And what the OP had:

BAY CITY, Mich. - Officers killed a 15-year-old boy with a Taser while trying to break up a fight, police said yesterday.

Guess they got some heat over the original lead in.

[LouC]

In my opinion, from what little I know so far, I think the teen was possibly near alcohol poisoning limits and may have been at great risk of medical problems despite the officers taser usage.

LINK (http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=6723040)

"He just had a little too much fun and things just got carried away," said Blair Stevenson, a friend of the victim.

Witnesses say the teen went after other occupants in the home and police officers.

Though the teen was vomiting and became unconscious, witnesses say he didn't receive medical attention until an ambulance arrived.

The teen's friends and family say this was another tragedy in a tough life.

His mother died last year and he struggled with alcohol addiction -- but was making some changes.

"He had a turnaround -- he realized he had a problem, went to rehab and he was doing good with rehab," said Leonard Ciesielski, the victim's uncle.

"He had a turnaround..."

Sounds like a U-Turn around there uncle?

[Fire Watch]

The fact is, while cops may Taser each other in police training to gauge the sensation of the instrument, the effect may be quite different on a young healthy male than on someone who has a pacemaker, heart disease, a seizure disorder. With authority comes responsibility.
Yeah, adherence to the law and personal responsibility be damned right?

[Ardathair]

Nonsense. If the boy had not tried to fight the Police, he would in all likelihood be alive right now. He made the decision to fight, knowing full well that there would be consequences to such an act.

Wrong, in all likelyhood, what ever caused his death, drug OD, would have killed him anyway.

Personaly I'll wait for the coroner's report for cause of death. It could be a combination of what made him aggressive and the taser, not just one or the other.

[angelicmadrigal]

Like ingesting or shooting up harmful "pleasure" chemicals might? Like running fast and hard from a cop might? Like trying to fight with a cop while high might?

Hmmm....lots of possiblilities.

Certain drugs can cause heart failure, yeah...but so can jolts of electricity. I'm just wondering if there is evidence that might suggest a taser should be treated a firearm (i.e. lethal force)

[Dreamy]

Certain drugs can cause heart failure, yeah...but so can jolts of electricity. I'm just wondering if there is evidence that might suggest a taser should be treated a firearm (i.e. lethal force)


How many die from the use of a taser by law enforcement?

He could have easily have died from fighting the officer or running or from the drugs also. Life is fully of risks. Resisting arrest might also bring about the use of a taser,a gun,getting tackled,getting hit by a car while fleeing police and on and on.

Don't resist police. Don't assault police. No taser will be used. No chance of dying by any of the above events. Of course some freak high on drugs is not going to play fair or by the rules so...he ingested/smoked/shot up drugs at his own peril.

Oh well.

[Pudge]

Let's wait for the facts. The teenager could have been under the influence of drugs, at the very least his heart rate and blood pressure was substantially elevated because he was fighting. Even if the taser is what caused his body to stop working, he had choices that he made up to the point where the police decided to use the taser on him.

Let's wait for the facts before we judge the police as if they were the emperor using force lightning on a prone Luke Skywalker.

(Wow, I needed a shoehorn for that one).

[angelicmadrigal]

Let's wait for the facts before we judge the police as if they were the emperor using force lightning on a prone Luke Skywalker.


Let me tell you when a police officer can shoot force lightening I'll be impressed.

[angelicmadrigal]

How many die from the use of a taser by law enforcement?

He could have easily have died from fighting the officer or running or from the drugs also. Life is fully of risks. Resisting arrest might also bring about the use of a taser,a gun,getting tackled,getting hit by a car while fleeing police and on and on.

Don't resist police. Don't assault police. No taser will be used. No chance of dying by any of the above events. Of course some freak high on drugs is not going to play fair or by the rules so...he ingested/smoked/shot up drugs at his own peril.

Oh well.

I don't really care honestly. The point I was originally ATTEMPTING to make before people started jumping my ass was that: if a person has a heart condition there is no way of knowing that. Therefore, I didn't see how a policeman could be held at fault. BUT if people want to jump my ass, I'll be a jerk and say "Fine, I hate the police, and I hope they're found guilty of murder". Since that's all some of you seem to hear when anyone raises questiosn about the actions of the police.

[Pudge]

Certain drugs can cause heart failure, yeah...but so can jolts of electricity. I'm just wondering if there is evidence that might suggest a taser should be treated a firearm (i.e. lethal force)

Any tactic or item used by police to subdue a suspect can be lethal. Some are just moreso than others.

A taser isn't nearly as lethal as a gun or even a baton, for that matter. Most officers who use tasers have also taken a shock from them as part of their training, how many get shot as part of their training?

Even grappling with a suspect can cause death or serious injury to a person.

I think we're forgetting that in these chaotic situations, the police can't go in and negotiate with two people beating the crap out of each other. If order is to be restored they have to use the fastest and safest means possible- not just to the people fighting but to everyone on the scene including the officers.

They couldn't shoot the combatants. Going in swinging batons would put everyone in danger, as would mace or any other chemical spray. Wrestling them would be joining the melee. The taser was the only safe option, and the vast majority of people who get tazed don't die from it. Happens once in a great while, but the way it's blown out of proportion you would think it happens every day.

[Pudge]

Let me tell you when a police officer can shoot force lightening I'll be impressed.

"If you will not obey the speed limit... you will be DESTROYED!!!!!!!"

[rhet 2]

In my opinion, from what little I know so far, I think the teen was possibly near alcohol poisoning limits and may have been at great risk of medical problems despite the officers taser usage.



"He had a turnaround..."

Sounds like a U-Turn around there uncle?

If he was "partying," he'd blown off rehab and was back to the garbage life that put him into rehab in the first place.

With LIFE comes RESPONSIBILITY -- and the OBLIGATION to make socially CONSTRUCTIVE use of a human being's time, energy, and resources.

Kiddo BLEW HIMSELF OFF -- because he wanted to have FUN instead of living like a responsible and socially constructive HUMAN BEING.


There's Constructive Fun and Destructive Fun -- and he CHOSE destructive activities that put him square in the middle of death row, begging for something to put him down.

[angelicmadrigal]

"If you will not obey the speed limit... you will be DESTROYED!!!!!!!"

::laughs really hard::

Well....it'd be a pretty good dettterent yeah?

[Pudge]

I still blame parents who do not teach their children proper boundaries when they're growing up. This kid had no idea or concept that by attacking police officers, he would be putting his very life in jeopardy. What is the responsibility of a parent if not to teach their child how to survive? And part of survival is learning to choose your battles. Had he just cooled out he'd likely have gotten disorderly conduct or simple assault. Instead, his own actions and choices, unaware of the severity of the consequences, led him to his death. It's sad, it really is. What was done to this kid his whole life. No boundaries, no respect, no responsibility. Sometimes I wonder if my generation is the last that was raised with these principles in mind, or is it that there are just fewer and fewer parents doing their jobs these days.

[drylok]

Sounds like another moron out of the gene pool. So what and good for the officers! My only question is why a taser not a 230 gr hollow point?

[Dreamy]

I still blame parents who do not teach their children proper boundaries when they're growing up. This kid had no idea or concept that by attacking police officers, he would be putting his very life in jeopardy. What is the responsibility of a parent if not to teach their child how to survive? And part of survival is learning to choose your battles. Had he just cooled out he'd likely have gotten disorderly conduct or simple assault. Instead, his own actions and choices, unaware of the severity of the consequences, led him to his death. It's sad, it really is. What was done to this kid his whole life. No boundaries, no respect, no responsibility. Sometimes I wonder if my generation is the last that was raised with these principles in mind, or is it that there are just fewer and fewer parents doing their jobs these days.

It is sad Pudge. So young to be dead because of being stupid or because no one was willing to tell him what is stupid,dangerous and deadly.

Or perhaps some of these kids just simply don't care. Teen years are tough times in general but add in a teen who might have been left to figure it all out on his own and trouble often comes a knockin.

[Broseph]

Lead in to the article:

The officers did not "kill" the kid, he died after being tasered.

Right.

And John Wilkes Booth didn't kill Lincoln. Lincoln died after being shot in the head.

Clearly, the bullet, and Lincoln's obviously poor cranial health due to not being able to take the bullet, were the cause of death.

[jimjames418]

Right.

And John Wilkes Booth didn't kill Lincoln. Lincoln died after being shot in the head.

Clearly, the bullet, and Lincoln's obviously poor cranial health due to not being able to take the bullet, were the cause of death.
Right, and a bean bag fired from a shotgun can break a rib and put a hole in your heart or lung. But the bean bag is considered a non lethal weapon, the same as the taser.

There are many ways to die in a fight with the police, and none of them are really the fault of the police. :doh:

[BillyBobUSA]

Any tactic or item used by police to subdue a suspect can be lethal. Some are just moreso than others.

A taser isn't nearly as lethal as a gun or even a baton, for that matter. Most officers who use tasers have also taken a shock from them as part of their training, how many get shot as part of their training?

Even grappling with a suspect can cause death or serious injury to a person.

I think we're forgetting that in these chaotic situations, the police can't go in and negotiate with two people beating the crap out of each other. If order is to be restored they have to use the fastest and safest means possible- not just to the people fighting but to everyone on the scene including the officers.

They couldn't shoot the combatants. Going in swinging batons would put everyone in danger, as would mace or any other chemical spray. Wrestling them would be joining the melee. The taser was the only safe option, and the vast majority of people who get tazed don't die from it. Happens once in a great while, but the way it's blown out of proportion you would think it happens every day.


People resisting the law should be liable to be shot dead.

If that was the case people wouldnt fight the law and lives would be saved in the long run.

These perps are so high that yelling BOO! might kill themn, so whats the point?

Turning our cops into impotent uniforms tha thave to group up on elementary kids is the goal of these idiots and it has been acheived.

Kid resists the law; lawman tasers him; kid dies; too damned bad.

[sgdp]

Right, and a bean bag fired from a shotgun can break a rib and put a hole in your heart or lung. But the bean bag is considered a non lethal weapon, the same as the taser.

There are many ways to die in a fight with the police, and none of them are really the fault of the police. :doh:

Tasers are not considered non-lethal. They are classified as "less than lethal".

[jimjames418]

Tasers are not considered non-lethal. They are classified as "less than lethal".
You should contact the government agency that is responsible for truth in advisting then. Every ad I have seen says they are non-lethal. As well as the police agencies that use them. :confused:

[jimjames418]

They must have edited the article because this is what it is reads now:



And what the OP had:



Guess they got some heat over the original lead in.
You are correct. The Boston Globe sent me an e-mail thanking me for pointing out the misuse of words to them. :)) And I'm not even an english teacher. :wall:

[sgdp]

You should contact the government agency that is responsible for truth in advisting then. Every ad I have seen says they are non-lethal. As well as the police agencies that use them. :confused:

http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/28-Less_Lethal_Weapons.htm

They rarely shoot their guns, and prefer to depend on authority and persuasion. When those fail, they have a host of less lethal weapons to try. Many of these are well-known, ranging from nightsticks to tear gas (CN or CS), pepper spray (OS, short for oleoresin capsicum), rubber bullets, bean bags, and tasers.

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/view/17207

PROVIDE TASER, LESS THAN LETHAL FORCE, TECHNOLOGY TO ALL PATROL OFFICERS
$200,000.00 - 0 JOBS - PUBLIC SAFETY PROGRAM"

Police officers in my state are trained to treat the Taser as a gun.

"If you wouldn't shoot the guy, don't Tase him. Tasers are to be used as a less than lethal means of apprehending a suspect."

[FidelisAdMortem]

So before I use force I should call timeout and take a survey of the perps medical conditions while hes fighting me? LOL......some posts in this thread are downright hilarious.

[FidelisAdMortem]

Police officers in my state are trained to treat the Taser as a gun.

"If you wouldn't shoot the guy, don't Tase him. Tasers are to be used as a less than lethal means of apprehending a suspect."

I never have seen any training where an officer is trained to use a taster instead of his firearm when faced with deadly force. Deadly force is met with deadly force. Are you advocating that I should shoot a taser at someone who is pointing/shooting a firearm at me? Are you serious?

[sgdp]

I never have seen any training where an officer is trained to use a taster instead of his firearm when faced with deadly force. Deadly force is met with deadly force. Are you advocating that I should shoot a taser at someone who is pointing/shooting a firearm at me? Are you serious?

Perhaps I phrased that in the wrong way. That's certainly not what I meant. I mean tasers should be used only in situations where the alternative would be use of deadly force.

For example, if a subject is on the ground kicking and flailing to the point that he is endangering officers trying to approach him or her, the police would be within their rights to Tase the subject (rather than approach or shoot him or her).

There seems to be a growing trend of officers who think they can use the Taser for silly things when it's really not needed. It seems to be treated as a quick way to get things over with and cuffs on rather than properly talking down the subject, using arm locks, etc. Tasers are a crutch in that way.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

**** happens.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I still blame parents who do not teach their children proper boundaries when they're growing up.
According to his Dad:

"He didn't like cops because he knows the rest of us don't, but he wasn't out to get them," Elder said.

[BasicGreatGuy]

Granted we don't know all the facts. However, I believe police officers have the right to protects themselves ( first and foremost ) as well as the public at large, from cretins. He shouldn't have been fighting with the police. That is the bottom line for me.

[Scarlet37]

You are correct. The Boston Globe sent me an e-mail thanking me for pointing out the misuse of words to them. :)) And I'm not even an english teacher. :wall:

Their "misuse" of words? Like it was an unintentional? :))

[LouC]

You are correct. The Boston Globe sent me an e-mail thanking me for pointing out the misuse of words to them. :)) And I'm not even an english teacher. :wall:

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Good for you.

[MrShotShot]

As is true in almost 100% of these types of cases, if the guy had simply obeyed the orders of the police office, he'd be alive and well right now.

If one thinks the police are being unreasonable or that they are in the right, that's a matter than can be taken up with the legal system at a later date.

Why folks don't understand this is beyond me.

[sgtmac_46]

The police did kill the boy. Whether it was intentional or not does not matter. Really? And you know this how? Correlation equals causation fallacy anyone?

[sgtmac_46]

What is nonsense? You pretty much iterated my exact point. :think:

I've been through a Taser seminar before. They did discuss potential heart problems caused by prior defects or being all cracked out, and have thus ruled the weapon as "less than lethal force".

I also know an officer who was injured after Tasering a fleeing subject. The subject crashed his car into a garage, which apparently spilled some gasoline or other flammable materials. When my friend approached and the subject fought with him, he pulled out his Taser and....


KABOOM!

I have been at police trainings where volunteers were Tased. In my state, they require all who carry to be Tased, so they know the extent of the damage they're causing and are thus less likely to become trigger-happy.

All the precautions in the world, but from a police officer's POV, safety for the police and the community comes first. A fleeing or fighting subject? Way back in second. BULL ****! As a TASER instructor, your versions of their training program are exactly that!

I've been a Taser instructor for 9 years, i've been Tasered more times than I can remember, and Taser's DO NOT aggravate heart problems........COCAINE DOES! FIGHTING WITH THE POLICE DOES! ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES THE COMBINATION OF ADRENALINE, COCAINE AND EXERTION DOES!

[sgtmac_46]

Certain drugs can cause heart failure, yeah...but so can jolts of electricity. I'm just wondering if there is evidence that might suggest a taser should be treated a firearm (i.e. lethal force) BULL ****! You haven't the SLIGHTEST CLUE what you are talking about. Guess what, genius, ELECTRICITY does not linger in the body and kill someone SEVERAL MINUTES OR HOURS LATER! If TASERS killed, it would be IMMEDIATELY! The notion that Taser current somehow bounces around the body for a while and THEN kills is based on some pretty damn poor understanding of electricity.....

.....Do no one even READ my first post in this thread, or was it so far over everyone's head?

[sgtmac_46]

Any tactic or item used by police to subdue a suspect can be lethal. Some are just moreso than others.

A taser isn't nearly as lethal as a gun or even a baton, for that matter. Most officers who use tasers have also taken a shock from them as part of their training, how many get shot as part of their training?

Even grappling with a suspect can cause death or serious injury to a person.

I think we're forgetting that in these chaotic situations, the police can't go in and negotiate with two people beating the crap out of each other. If order is to be restored they have to use the fastest and safest means possible- not just to the people fighting but to everyone on the scene including the officers.

They couldn't shoot the combatants. Going in swinging batons would put everyone in danger, as would mace or any other chemical spray. Wrestling them would be joining the melee. The taser was the only safe option, and the vast majority of people who get tazed don't die from it. Happens once in a great while, but the way it's blown out of proportion you would think it happens every day.

Exactly right! Remember the fat guy in Cincinnati? Died after fighting with the police with NOT ONE TASER IN SIGHT? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/03/national/main586625.shtml

APPARENTLY anything the police do to coked out, PCP addled, fruitcakes has a strong possibility of causing death......or, perhaps it's better said.....taking too much COCAINE has a strong likelihood of BOTH getting the COPS called......and killing you!

[Dreamy]

My feeling is if someone(high on drugs or not) is crazed enough to take on strong men(police officers) with guns and batons and extensive training then tasing should definitely be an option. They are a danger to the community as well as to the police. I defer the judgment to those who know and see more than I can ever possibly know and see.

[sgtmac_46]

Right.

And John Wilkes Booth didn't kill Lincoln. Lincoln died after being shot in the head.

Clearly, the bullet, and Lincoln's obviously poor cranial health due to not being able to take the bullet, were the cause of death. Moronic analogy........a MORE ACCURATE one would be the erroneous conclusion that HOSPITAL rooms are lethal, because so many people die in them..........which fits the notion that TASERS kill because some people died after being Tasered (and, in identical fashion, after ALL KINDS OF OTHER restraint methods).........because it's based on a fault form of logic, the old 'Correlation EQUALS Causation' fallacy.

The REALITY is that the kinds of BEHAVIOR that is likely to cause your death, I.E. COCAINE OVERDOSES, also cause you to behave in ways that get the POLICE CALLED and then force them to have to restraint you.

But, since anything that takes longer to explain than reading a bumper sticker is LOST on some folks, they just use the same old faulty logic.....'Erm, uhm....Taser used.......him died..........Taser KILL HIM! errrrrgggg' :wall: :doh:

[sgtmac_46]

My feeling is if someone(high on drugs or not) is crazed enough to take on strong men(police officers) with guns and batons and extensive training then tasing should definitely be an option. They are a danger to the community as well as to the police. I defer the judgment to those who know and see more than I can ever possibly know and see.

The bigger problem is that NO MATTER WHAT force we use, many of these folks are going to die.......because their death was set in motion HOURS before the police ever arrived...........therefore we are commanded to deal with a no-win situation that we are going to blamed for the outcome of, regardless of the truth about who's fault it is.

[sgtmac_46]

Tasers are not considered non-lethal. They are classified as "less than lethal". The term is a matter of semantics. non-lethal morphed in to 'less than lethal' because some lawyers and trainers thought it sounded better. They were both used to describe the same thing. I've been around for the entire evolution of the 'non lethal' to 'less than lethal' semantic debate, and they mean EXACTLY the same thing.

[sgtmac_46]

Police officers in my state are trained to treat the Taser as a gun.

"If you wouldn't shoot the guy, don't Tase him. Tasers are to be used as a less than lethal means of apprehending a suspect." What state is that? Because if that is their standard, then they are a bunch of idiots!

A TASER should never be considered a substitute for lethal force......anyone who thinks it should is an idiot, and is going to get themselves, other officers and/or the public killed!

A Taser fills a gap.....and serves it's BEST role as an early intervention device that helps stop situations from ESCALATING to lethal force situations.

[sgtmac_46]

Perhaps I phrased that in the wrong way. That's certainly not what I meant. I mean tasers should be used only in situations where the alternative would be use of deadly force.

That's the SAME THING you said before, reworded. It either IS a lethal force situation or it ISN'T.......

I'm starting to suspect you don't know what you're talking about......i'm still interested in hearing what STATES POST is teaching their officers something so STUPID AS TO BELIEVE THAT A TASER SHOULD BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR LETHAL FORCE!

[LouC]

BULL ****! You haven't the SLIGHTEST CLUE what you are talking about. Guess what, genius, ELECTRICITY does not linger in the body and kill someone SEVERAL MINUTES OR HOURS LATER! If TASERS killed, it would be IMMEDIATELY! The notion that Taser current somehow bounces around the body for a while and THEN kills is based on some pretty damn poor understanding of electricity.....

.....Do no one even READ my first post in this thread, or was it so far over everyone's head?

What I said in post 14 here.

In my opinion, from what little I know so far, I think the teen was possibly near alcohol poisoning limits and may have been at great risk of medical problems despite the officers taser usage.

I would not be surprised if the autopsy results prove he was a dead man walking as it were.

[sgtmac_46]

What I said in post 14 here.



I would not be surprised if the autopsy results prove he was a dead man walking as it were. Or what other drugs were in his system at the time.

[Gray]

The bigger problem is that NO MATTER WHAT force we use, many of these folks are going to die.......because their death was set in motion HOURS before the police ever arrived...........therefore we are commanded to deal with a no-win situation that we are going to blamed for the outcome of, regardless of the truth about who's fault it is.

Truth.

[gdoane]

I wouldn't mind seeing most of the less than lethal force devices gone and cops going back to just plain old handguns.

A cop's duty belt is weighing in an nearly 50 pounds, what with the guns, handcuffs, pepper spray, baton, taser, extra rounds, radio, cell phone and other junk.

No wonder police parking at the mall is right next to the handicapped parking. Add any more crap to their belt and they'll probably NEED a wheelchair to get around.

It should just be a gun and handcuffs. Anybody gives a cop any guff, just shoot 'em. As it is, all the extra junk ENCOURAGES the perp to resist arrest because the odds are pretty good you can outrun Inspector Gadget with his 50 pounds of junk on his belt and even if you're wrong he's not allowed to kill you when he's got other options.

The good old service pistol was best along with "stop or I'll shoot!"

I'm surprised OSHA doesn't have a weight limit on those duty belts. They're definitely a handicap that encourages attempts to resist arrest.

[MrShotShot]

The bigger problem is that NO MATTER WHAT force we use, many of these folks are going to die.......because their death was set in motion HOURS before the police ever arrived...........therefore we are commanded to deal with a no-win situation that we are going to blamed for the outcome of, regardless of the truth about who's fault it is.

Not to mention that no matter what you do/don't do with whatever lethal/less than lethal/non-lethal items at your disposal, there are going to be those who will criticize you b/c they just hate the police.

[uncledoom]

Remove: Pepper spray, Taser, bean bag guns

Bring back: Lead lined gloved, 18 inch steel mag-lite flashlights, night sticks, slap jacks...

[sgtmac_46]

I wouldn't mind seeing most of the less than lethal force devices gone and cops going back to just plain old handguns.

A cop's duty belt is weighing in an nearly 50 pounds, what with the guns, handcuffs, pepper spray, baton, taser, extra rounds, radio, cell phone and other junk.

No wonder police parking at the mall is right next to the handicapped parking. Add any more crap to their belt and they'll probably NEED a wheelchair to get around.

It should just be a gun and handcuffs. Anybody gives a cop any guff, just shoot 'em. As it is, all the extra junk ENCOURAGES the perp to resist arrest because the odds are pretty good you can outrun Inspector Gadget with his 50 pounds of junk on his belt and even if you're wrong he's not allowed to kill you when he's got other options.

The good old service pistol was best along with "stop or I'll shoot!"

I'm surprised OSHA doesn't have a weight limit on those duty belts. They're definitely a handicap that encourages attempts to resist arrest.

That would only work if you made resisting arrest at all a lethal force situation......which isn't going to happen.