Sean's Man-in-the-street Interviews: There is still hope

[Nan]

Sean Hannity had his microphone out on the streets this week asking if people supported Obama's policy "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (most agreed with that one, as long as they were the ones getting and not giving) and whether they knew who Karl Marx was (most did not; some thought he was one of Groucho's brothers). That's frightening.

But there is still hope. Young adults may be ignorant of Karl Marx, but some of our teenagers know.

I asked my 17-year-old this question a few months ago: "Most people are familiar with Grouch Marx and the Marx Brothers. Do you know which Marx brother was Karl?" (Yes, I know they were unrelated. It was a trick question.)

Her answer: "Karl Marx - German guy - founder of communism. Who was Groucho???"

America, we still have hope.

[angelicmadrigal]

Her answer: "Karl Marx - German guy - founder of communism. Who was Groucho???"

America, we still have hope.

I wouldn't be impressed if someone simply knew who Karl Marx was. It doesn't show any understanding of the historical context of his writings, or even the writings themselves. It's up there with being able to say who Chairman Mao was, but having no idea where his beliefs came from, or how they fit into modern Chinese history in a specific sense. Knowing a man's name and a snippet of his deeds, does not give you any insight into the rationale behind those beliefs.

[Samm]

I wouldn't be impressed if someone simply knew who Karl Marx was. It doesn't show any understanding of the historical context of his writings, or even the writings themselves. It's up there with being able to say who Chairman Mao was, but having no idea where his beliefs came from, or how they fit into modern Chinese history in a specific sense. Knowing a man's name and a snippet of his deeds, does not give you any insight into the rationale behind those beliefs.

We are living in an era where a large picture of Che Guevara superimposed over a Cuban flag is posted on the wall of the Obama Campaign Headquarters and neither anybody who works there nor in the Mainstream Media sees anything wrong with it. :neutral:

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr24/dam12756/obama_cuba_castro.jpg

[angelicmadrigal]

We are living in an era where a large picture of Che Guevara superimposed over a Cuban flag is posted on the wall of the Obama Campaign Headquarters and neither anybody who works there nor in the Mainstream Media sees anything wrong with it. :neutral:


I'd like to hear the rationale behind it before I pass judgment. Not everyone veiws Guevara the same way.

[spearmaster]

I'd like to hear the rationale behind it before I pass judgment. Not everyone veiws Guevara the same way.

How else could you view Che Guevara?

[sgdp]

How else could you view Che Guevara?

Like the teenagers who wear his face on their shirts as a sign of rebellion? :confused:

[angelicmadrigal]

How else could you view Che Guevara?

Well depending on who you ask some people think he's a hero for various reasons, other people think he was little more than a guy that used the idea of revolution to justify his violent behavior. ::shrugs:: It's all about perspective.

[angelicmadrigal]

Like the teenagers who wear his face on their shirts as a sign of rebellion? :confused:

Right, my guess is Obama used it as a symbol of drastic change, something he used in his campaign, I really doubt there were deeper implications that that.

[JohnCraven]

Pontius Pilate once asked "What is truth?" of a man he was about to crucify and who had told him that He had come to testify to the truth.

What does it really matter the historical context of Mao's thinking or that of Che Guevara when the result of their thinking is the wholesale slaughter of 100's of millions of human beings and the enslavement of 100's of millions more?

If anyone doubts the evil, the criminality, the insanity of Marxism and communism and socialism and Nazism and fascism which are all nails on the same cross, one need only try to read through
"The Black Book of Communism" which was written by ten authors, all of whom are or were communists, in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union when the files of the secret police were made known, to really understand the historical, even biblical, nature of the evil that this ideology promoted.

I've tried reading through it and have only been able to make it so far. The evil is so revolting.

Those who hang flags of Cuba with pictures of Che Guevara on them are merely Stalin's "useful idiots" and that includes everyone who voted for Obama and I mean everyone.

JohnCraven
New Orleans:flag:

[Samm]

Well depending on who you ask some people think he's a hero for various reasons, other people think he was little more than a guy that used the idea of revolution to justify his violent behavior. ::shrugs:: It's all about perspective.

My point exactly... If Obama and his minions believe that Che is a hero then it confirms everything we have been saying about him being a dangerous Socialist.

[angelicmadrigal]

My point exactly... If Obama and his minions believe that Che is a hero then it confirms everything we have been saying about him being a dangerous Socialist.

Actually, it could also represent someone who is willing to fight for whatever his/her beliefs are (as that is another representation of Guvera's acts). So the point is, you don't know the intention/reasoning behind the usage unless you ask the person, the best you can do is speculate. He very well could be a socialist, he also could very well not be.

[Samm]

Right, my guess is Obama used it as a symbol of drastic change, something he used in his campaign, I really doubt there were deeper implications that that.

Yeah... right. :rolleyes:

[Samm]

Actually, it could also represent someone who is willing to fight for whatever his/her beliefs are (as that is another representation of Guvera's acts). So the point is, you don't know the intention/reasoning behind the usage unless you ask the person, the best you can do is speculate. He very well could be a socialist, he also could very well not be.

Perhaps their intentions were completely based on ignorance of what Guvera stood for and was fighting for, but if you believe that, you are admitting another thing we have been saying about Obama and his minions... that they are uninformed and naive.

[angelicmadrigal]

Yeah... right. :rolleyes:

Because you're psychic and know the inner workings of Obama (or anyone else's) mind. You're simply specualting, I'm providing alternate counter speculation.

Just because a symbol means one thing to you, it does NOT mean it doesn't have other meanings (on various levels). Though you can't seem to get past the stupid notion that socialism consumes the entire being of who they are OR that you can't admire someone for their diligence to their convictions w/o admiring their specific convictions yourself.

[angelicmadrigal]

Perhaps their intentions were completely based on ignorance of what Guvera stood for and was fighting for, but if you believe that, you are admitting another thing we have been saying about Obama and his minions... that they are uninformed and naive.

So? That doesnt' bother me at all.

[Samm]

Because you're psychic and know the inner workings of Obama (or anyone else's) mind. You're simply specualting, I'm providing alternate counter speculation.

Just because a symbol means one thing to you, it does NOT mean it doesn't have other meanings (on various levels). Though you can't seem to get past the stupid notion that socialism consumes the entire being of who they are OR that you can't admire someone for their diligence to their convictions w/o admiring their specific convictions yourself.

What would you speculate if there was a picture of herr Adolf on the wall of McCain Campaign Headquarters? Yeah... me too.

[Samm]

So? That doesnt' bother me at all.

So do you mean that Obama and his supporters are ignorant and naive and proud of it? :eh:


:))

[MrShotShot]

Actually, it could also represent someone who is willing to fight for whatever his/her beliefs are (as that is another representation of Guvera's acts). So the point is, you don't know the intention/reasoning behind the usage unless you ask the person, the best you can do is speculate. He very well could be a socialist, he also could very well not be.

You mean like Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest, John Longstreet, etc.

Let's see how calm and understanding your reaction would be if their pictures and a couple dozen Confederate Battle Flags were hanging up in McCain's campaign office.

I seem to remember something about a hunting camp Cheney was visiting and some photographer took a picture of a Confederate Battle Flag hanging up inside through the window - what was it, oh yeah, Cheney and all of his buddies were suddenly racsists pigs.

[JohnCraven]

You mean like Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest, John Longstreet, etc.

Let's see how calm and understanding your reaction would be if their pictures and a couple dozen Confederate Battle Flags were hanging up in McCain's campaign office.

I seem to remember something about a hunting camp Cheney was visiting and some photographer took a picture of a Confederate Battle Flag hanging up inside through the window - what was it, oh yeah, Cheney and all of his buddies were suddenly racsists pigs.

Few Southerners who fought for the South during the War Between the States, as we used to like to call it down here, actually owned any slaves and likely never wanted to either.

I have ancestors who fought for the South and I'm fairly certain I have some who fought for the North.

I actually worked with a guy who's wife was a relative of Stonewall Jackson.

There is a Confederate Museum here in New Orleans across the street from the D-Day Museum. You may find it interesting to note that the museum has photos of black Confederate soldiers who weren't slaves but who were what were called "Free Men of Color". New Orleans had a very large population of "Free Men and Free Women of Color" some of whom also owned slaves.

Some American Indians in the south also owned slaves and some American Indians were actually slaves themselves, sold into slavery by other Indians when they were captured during battles between rival tribes.

Slavery is still practiced today in Africa by the Sudanese and others. It was in fact mostly Muslim black African raiders who traveled into the heart of Africa to capture other Africans for sale in the Slave Trade.

No nation on earth. No race on earth. No culture on earth has not practiced slavery at one time or another in their existence but only one nation, actually two, Great Britain was the first, although the Irish would be hard pressed to believe it, has ever sought to end the practice of slavery. The other nation, of course, is us.

It is my understanding that of the two major generals who fought during the Civil War, Lee and Grant, both had wives who had inherited slaves but only one of the generals freed his wife's slaves before the war began. The other never did free his wife's slaves but it didn't stop him from becoming president of the United States of America.

I don't have a problem with anyone who displays the Confederate flag because, like me, they probably have an ancestor who fought for the South during the War Between The States not to defend slavery but to defend their homeland from the bullying of the north which never got around to emancipating the slaves until the war was half over and the South was defending itself very well and the North was very much in danger of losing the war. It is noteworthy that the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the South and therefore it made it possible for people like Ulysses S. Grant to keep their slaves in the north and in the western territories. At least that is my understanding of what happened.

I like waiving the American flag because I've had many relatives who've served with great honor and distinction in the armed forces of the United States of America during WWII and Korea and Vietnam and the Gulf Wars, including a relative who flew with Doolittle over Tokyo in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. At the same time I have no problem with someone displaying the Confederate flag on their cars or in their homes.

But the Hammer and Sickle is another matter entirely. We aren't a communist totalitarian nation yet although Obama is quickly pushing us in that direction.

JohnCraven
New Orleans:flag:

[KyanWan]

I like waiving the American flag because I've had many relatives who've served with great honor and distinction in the armed forces of the United States of America during WWII and Korea and Vietnam and the Gulf Wars, including a relative who flew with Doolittle over Tokyo in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. At the same time I have no problem with someone displaying the Confederate flag on their cars or in their homes.

But the Hammer and Sickle is another matter entirely. We aren't a communist totalitarian nation yet although Obama is quickly pushing us in that direction.

JohnCraven
New Orleans:flag:

This American here -

My mother's family is pure New England - colonial.

If I rattled off the last names in our family - just three of em, including her maiden name ... it's easily evident ... we're a very old family, and if you recognize a "wow, are you related?!" name just like ours ... yeah - we're related - directly. We've fought just about every war - all the way back to the big one ... 1776.

Didn't have anyone over Tokyo - but my Grandpa set his boots on fire while sleeping too close to a campfire in Korea.

But to the point.

Waving the Confederate flag - that's an American flag, that's our flag. That's our history - yours, and mine. The confederates - they ARE our brothers - and we should NEVER have fought our own. Ignoring or belittling our own history - is unacceptable.

Waving & bearing the flags of our enemies ... that's unacceptable as well.

We paid too much for our country - we suffered too much - and spilled too much blood to give it up to these people. I for one, will never stand to lose what we've paid so dearly for. None of us should.

People these days - they just fail to understand what true freedom is, what the United States is built on, and WHY it exists. Or is the problem, that they never learned what our country stands for ... and the true honor that it is to call themselves American.

~

I guarantee you - these people who cry and whine about brutality, inequality, unfairness - have NEVER, EVER laid eyes on the rest of the world - firsthand. They don't know what brutality, unfairness, and inequality truly are.

I tell you one thing - if there is any nation on this planet that is truly fair to all of its people, it is this one. Right here. Each person is equal, opportunity is universal. The only limit on your own success - is yourself.

Though, our "President" argues otherwise, of course.

----

On a side note, everyone may be pleased to know my 13 year old brother heard that some 25 year old questioned on the show didn't know who Biden was.

He said: "What an idiot."

:)

Guess we can work on our own. Maybe some intelligence will rub off on the kids friends. ( Assuming they even associate with those types.... )

[angelicmadrigal]

What would you speculate if there was a picture of herr Adolf on the wall of McCain Campaign Headquarters? Yeah... me too.

::shrugs:: He can adorn his walls with whatever he wants. I know I'd personally like to hear the explaination before I started throwing stones.

[angelicmadrigal]

So do you mean that Obama and his supporters are ignorant and naive and proud of it? :eh:


:))

That's their problem not mine, since I didn't vote for him.

[angelicmadrigal]

You mean like Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest, John Longstreet, etc.

Let's see how calm and understanding your reaction would be if their pictures and a couple dozen Confederate Battle Flags were hanging up in McCain's campaign office.


::shrugs:: doesn't make me any difference. Lots of people have Condederate Flags, and last I checked a LOT of people consider Lee and Jackson heroes.

I don't know why you would think that would bother me.

[JohnCraven]

That's their problem not mine, since I didn't vote for him.

I happened to hear Louis the Liberal call into Hannity yesterday from Houston I think it was and he had something fairly amazing to say.

His wife, a died-in-the-wool ultraliberal who was doing backflips for Obama the night he won the election and who was very upset with Louis for voting for McCain, apparently has been having a lot of second thoughts about Obama.

It may be taking a while for what Obama had done so quickly to really sink into the heads of people, especially his most ardent supporters, but once it does and they realize what a great con job Obama's presidency is and what a catastrophe it is especially under the tyrannical weight of the growing debt that he has saddled so many hard-working Americans with, that it will be his own supporters who will turn on him the most much like it appears Louis the Liberal's wife is beginning to do.

I really don't think many people realize just how disastrous this presidency is already but I think and hope more and more people begin to realize it as quickly as possible and begin changing back to a better course for our nation beginning with the next election for Congress.

JohnCraven
New Orleans:flag:

[Samm]

::shrugs:: He can adorn his walls with whatever he wants. I know I'd personally like to hear the explaination before I started throwing stones.

I suppose it maters not to you that stones were thrown yet no explanation was given? It is though they (Obama's camp) could care less what people think of their socialist tendencies... they have been given a pass by the MSM and they will run all the way to Communism with it if they want.

[Samm]

That's their problem not mine, since I didn't vote for him.

That is where you are so wrong... it is everyone's problem regardless for whom you voted.

[angelicmadrigal]

I suppose it maters not to you that stones were thrown yet no explanation was given?
Not by me they weren't. You asked if _I_ personally would have a problem with it, and I gave you the answer. NO I DO NOT. I am not responsible for what other people do, so do not try and take it out on me.

[angelicmadrigal]

That is where you are so wrong... it is everyone's problem regardless for whom you voted.

The point was you can NOT blame me for anything Obama does because _I_ had nothing to do with it. That is the point. So you really need to stop trying to connect me to the situation, and behavior of Obama supporters.

[Samm]

Not by me they weren't. You asked if _I_ personally would have a problem with it, and I gave you the answer. NO I DO NOT. I am not responsible for what other people do, so do not try and take it out on me.

This is where this line of discussion started:

Perhaps their intentions were completely based on ignorance of what Guvera stood for and was fighting for, but if you believe that, you are admitting another thing we have been saying about Obama and his minions... that they are uninformed and naive.

So? That doesnt' bother me at all.

You stated it does not bother you at all that Obama supporters are overt admirers of Guvera. I am taking nothing out on you; I am simply challenging your ambivalence to their position. I find it difficult to believe that you don't care that the President of the United States embraces people who think Guvera is somebody to be admired. Your deliberate silence on that political symbolism is tacit support which does make you complicit whether you voted for the man or not.

[Samm]

The point was you can NOT blame me for anything Obama does because _I_ had nothing to do with it. That is the point. So you really need to stop trying to connect me to the situation, and behavior of Obama supporters.

You are an American; you are connected... whether you like it or not. You said you did not care what Obama's supporters (and by implication Obama) stand for, just because you did not vote for him. That sounds a lot like Pontius Pilot when the crowd shouted "Give us Barabus."

I am not trying to blame you for anything; I would just like you to stand up and be counted... one way or the other.

[angelicmadrigal]

Your deliberate silence on that political symbolism is tacit support which does make you complicit whether you voted for the man or not.

Again as I've stated, it doenst' make me any difference whether Guevera is a socialist or not, just like it doesn't bother me about the succession of the Confederate states. It's the motive behind the choice, and as far as I know Obama hasn't come out and said anything about WHY he admires Guevera. As i've illustrated to you there is a myriad of symbolic representation here ASIDE from simply political, that you fail to grasp that is not my problem it's yours.

And honestly, Guevera was a socialist, BIG DEAL. There are other aspects of the man BESIDES socialism, you chose to fixate on that detail, not me. It COULD be the reason Obama chose him, it could be some of the other things Guevera symbolizes (such as the need for drastic change, as he's a symbol of drastic change and revolution).

[angelicmadrigal]

You are an American; you are connected... whether you like it or not. You said you did not care what Obama's supporters (and by implication Obama) stand for, just because you did not vote for him. That sounds a lot like Pontius Pilot when the crowd shouted "Give us Barabus."
And I'm completely fine with Pontius Pilot. Seemed like an okay enough guy.


I am not trying to blame you for anything; I would just like you to stand up and be counted... one way or the other.

And unfortunately I refuse to take one side or the other, because really all you're trying is a pathetic trick to pidgeon hole me into some prefabricated political idea you have running around in your head, and I refuse to be party to that.

[Samm]

Again as I've stated, it doenst' make me any difference whether Guevera is a socialist or not, just like it doesn't bother me about the succession of the Confederate states. It's the motive behind the choice, and as far as I know Obama hasn't come out and said anything about WHY he admires Guevera. As i've illustrated to you there is a myriad of symbolic representation here ASIDE from simply political, that you fail to grasp that is not my problem it's yours.

And honestly, Guevera was a socialist, BIG DEAL. There are other aspects of the man BESIDES socialism, you chose to fixate on that detail, not me. It COULD be the reason Obama chose him, it could be some of the other things Guevera symbolizes (such as the need for drastic change, as he's a symbol of drastic change and revolution).

And I'm completely fine with Pontius Pilot. Seemed like an okay enough guy.

And unfortunately I refuse to take one side or the other, because really all you're trying is a pathetic trick to pidgeon hole me into some prefabricated political idea you have running around in your head, and I refuse to be party to that.

One of these days... soon... you are going to have to pick a side. :neutral:

[angelicmadrigal]

One of these days... soon... you are going to have to pick a side. :neutral:

Whos is going to make me exactly? Oh that's right, no one.

[Samm]

Whos is going to make me exactly? Oh that's right, no one.

Don't count on it... :neutral:

[Lady Liberty]

Few Southerners who fought for the South during the War Between the States, as we used to like to call it down here, actually owned any slaves and likely never wanted to either.

I have ancestors who fought for the South and I'm fairly certain I have some who fought for the North.

I actually worked with a guy who's wife was a relative of Stonewall Jackson.

There is a Confederate Museum here in New Orleans across the street from the D-Day Museum. You may find it interesting to note that the museum has photos of black Confederate soldiers who weren't slaves but who were what were called "Free Men of Color". New Orleans had a very large population of "Free Men and Free Women of Color" some of whom also owned slaves.

Some American Indians in the south also owned slaves and some American Indians were actually slaves themselves, sold into slavery by other Indians when they were captured during battles between rival tribes.

Slavery is still practiced today in Africa by the Sudanese and others. It was in fact mostly Muslim black African raiders who traveled into the heart of Africa to capture other Africans for sale in the Slave Trade.

No nation on earth. No race on earth. No culture on earth has not practiced slavery at one time or another in their existence but only one nation, actually two, Great Britain was the first, although the Irish would be hard pressed to believe it, has ever sought to end the practice of slavery. The other nation, of course, is us.

It is my understanding that of the two major generals who fought during the Civil War, Lee and Grant, both had wives who had inherited slaves but only one of the generals freed his wife's slaves before the war began. The other never did free his wife's slaves but it didn't stop him from becoming president of the United States of America.

I don't have a problem with anyone who displays the Confederate flag because, like me, they probably have an ancestor who fought for the South during the War Between The States not to defend slavery but to defend their homeland from the bullying of the north which never got around to emancipating the slaves until the war was half over and the South was defending itself very well and the North was very much in danger of losing the war. It is noteworthy that the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the South and therefore it made it possible for people like Ulysses S. Grant to keep their slaves in the north and in the western territories. At least that is my understanding of what happened.

I like waiving the American flag because I've had many relatives who've served with great honor and distinction in the armed forces of the United States of America during WWII and Korea and Vietnam and the Gulf Wars, including a relative who flew with Doolittle over Tokyo in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. At the same time I have no problem with someone displaying the Confederate flag on their cars or in their homes.

But the Hammer and Sickle is another matter entirely. We aren't a communist totalitarian nation yet although Obama is quickly pushing us in that direction.

JohnCraven
New Orleans:flag:

Interesting to read your post. It adds great context to the conversation. Thanks for posting it.
~

[Lady Liberty]

One of these days... soon... you are going to have to pick a side. :neutral:

Yes. We all are.

[Samm]

Yes. We all are.

Apparently the country will be split three ways: Us; Them; and angelicmadrigal. ;)