Pony Car Wars?

[ShinGouki]

Have you guys been keeping up with all the new pony cars that are available? The Dodge Challenger, 2010 Mustang, 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and the upcoming Camaro? They seem nice. Here's what I think about them. What do yall think?

Challenger
Pros: Has the most retro look, nifty headlights, sounds very nice, affordable V8 trim
Cons: Too big; I pulled up next to one in my Frontier and it was actually longer than my truck.
Very nice car, but just too big. It's actually closer to the original Dodge Charger than the original Challenger.

2010 Mustang
Pros: Looks better than ever; finally tops the 99-2004 models in looks, interior is no longer toyish (my mom has an '06 'stang and it has a cheap interior) and the GT is still relatively affordable.
Cons: Still using the Ranger 4.0L (a 4.0L V6 that makes 210 horses is pathetic), the GT needs more power, still using a live-axle.
Still the affordable option, but it's unrefined and crude compared to the rest. Still, it sells, and that's what matters.

Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Pros: 4-cylinder Turbo!!!! (been waiting for the return of the turbo-4-banger in ponies), good V6, looks very nice, proof that Koreans make good cars.
Cons: Weighs alot more than it looks (it's about 3400 pounds with the 4-banger), Edmunds states that the manual tranny is somewhat unrefined.
Great first attempt. If I was buying a pony, it'd be between this and the Camaro. The manual tranny's problems are probably what would make me lean to the Camaro. That and the Camaro's styling.

Camaro
Pros: Return of the best pony car ever made (stock '98 Camaro Z28s lap new 'Stangs all the time), most fuel efficient engines (even the LS3 gets 24 on the highway), most bang for the buck with either engine setup
Cons: No real problems thus far, and if history continues, it'll be reliable. I still see 3rd generation F-bodies (Camaros and Firebirds) on the road with stock components and over 300,000 miles. They were the only reliable GM cars you could buy at the time, and that says loads. The only American cars I'd consider from the 80s and the 90s would be F-Bodies for that reason; they are very reliable cars.

[spearmaster]

Have you guys been keeping up with all the new pony cars that are available? The Dodge Challenger, 2010 Mustang, 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and the upcoming Camaro? They seem nice. Here's what I think about them. What do yall think?

Challenger
Pros: Has the most retro look, nifty headlights, sounds very nice, affordable V8 trim
Cons: Too big; I pulled up next to one in my Frontier and it was actually longer than my truck.
Very nice car, but just too big. It's actually closer to the original Dodge Charger than the original Challenger.

2010 Mustang
Pros: Looks better than ever; finally tops the 99-2004 models in looks, interior is no longer toyish (my mom has an '06 'stang and it has a cheap interior) and the GT is still relatively affordable.
Cons: Still using the Ranger 4.0L (a 4.0L V6 that makes 210 horses is pathetic), the GT needs more power, still using a live-axle.
Still the affordable option, but it's unrefined and crude compared to the rest. Still, it sells, and that's what matters.

Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Pros: 4-cylinder Turbo!!!! (been waiting for the return of the turbo-4-banger in ponies), good V6, looks very nice, proof that Koreans make good cars.
Cons: Weighs alot more than it looks (it's about 3400 pounds with the 4-banger), Edmunds states that the manual tranny is somewhat unrefined.
Great first attempt. If I was buying a pony, it'd be between this and the Camaro. The manual tranny's problems are probably what would make me lean to the Camaro. That and the Camaro's styling.

Camaro
Pros: Return of the best pony car ever made (stock '98 Camaro Z28s lap new 'Stangs all the time), most fuel efficient engines (even the LS3 gets 24 on the highway), most bang for the buck with either engine setup
Cons: No real problems thus far, and if history continues, it'll be reliable. I still see 3rd generation F-bodies (Camaros and Firebirds) on the road with stock components and over 300,000 miles. They were the only reliable GM cars you could buy at the time, and that says loads. The only American cars I'd consider from the 80s and the 90s would be F-Bodies for that reason; they are very reliable cars.

Yes as a Mustang fan I must say the 'Stangs continue to look good every model year. Mine Mustang is an '02 GT so I can't say much for the performance of the ones after that. I'm pretty sure the Mustang GT's still have the 4.6L V8 though, not 4.0L V6.

Challengers are looking pretty sweet too.

[ShinGouki]

Yes as a Mustang fan I must say the 'Stangs continue to look good every model year. Mine Mustang is an '02 GT so I can't say much for the performance of the ones after that. I'm pretty sure the Mustang GT's still have the 4.6L V8 though, not 4.0L V6.

Challengers are looking pretty sweet too.

I meant the base model has the 4.0 mill lol.

I've never really cared for Mustangs too much. I'm actually more of a ricer type of guy (planning to buy a RX-7 or a Nissan 300ZX at some point) with a love of Japanese engineering. But when it comes to American, I'm all about Camaros, Firebirds, and Corvettes.

Yeah, the GT still uses the 4.6L DOHC V8. They all have their roots in the early 90s; I think the first Ford to get the engine was Lincoln with the In-Tech 4.6L DOHC. Then the Mustang got it in 96 (or was it 97?) in a SOHC config. Then the F-150 with the Triton. And so on and so forth.

It's a good engine. Problem is that it's way too small. They need to stick a re-tuned 5.4L in the GT to get some extra juice. If it was me, I'd go ahead and go to a 5.7L, aka a bored 5.4L.

I guess money is the obstacle, but if GM can make those monsterous LS engines affordable, I'm sure Ford can too.

[WhiteHatBobby]

GM was willing to share Camaro costs with the upcoming Impala until Dictator Pelosi took control of the auto industry in late 2007 with the Energy Independence and Security Act that outlawed the Impala Project. The LS3 was slated to be in both the Camaro and Impala, and the Impala was slated to join the Camaro on the Holden Commodore chassis. (The Holden is an Australian GM car.) Of course, the LS3 is based on the new-generation small block engine used in trucks that GM had to stuff a 325 into a Colorado pickup truck this year after running just 4 and 5 cylinder engines in the Isuzu designs.

[curtis123]

Cars have been screaming out for at least a shred of style for years. It's great to see these retro models.

I agree on the mustang interior. I was test driving one, and I didn't buy it, simply because the interor was the lamest joke of an interior I've ever seen. I'm glad Ford is doing something about that.

Still, in my opinion, there's nothing like the original:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g190/curtis123_2006/cid_06-04-07_1430-1.jpg

My project car two years ago.

[KYCutlassGuy]

There are some firebird T/A pictures floating around out there that look like they're based on the camaro platform. That's one great looking concept and puts the rest to shame. I wouldn't really count the Hyundai as a pony car, I would think it's more along the lines of the original Nissan 300Z than a camaro or mustang.

[Old_Mil]

Have you guys been keeping up with all the new pony cars that are available? The Dodge Challenger, 2010 Mustang, 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and the upcoming Camaro? They seem nice. Here's what I think about them. What do yall think?

...I don't think a $30,000 car qualifies as a pony anything.

[ShinGouki]

...I don't think a $30,000 car qualifies as a pony anything.

Uhm, which base model costs 30gs? You can get any of these cars under 25 grand.

[ShinGouki]

There are some firebird T/A pictures floating around out there that look like they're based on the camaro platform. That's one great looking concept and puts the rest to shame. I wouldn't really count the Hyundai as a pony car, I would think it's more along the lines of the original Nissan 300Z than a camaro or mustang.

You mean the Nissan/Datsun 240Z my friend. :)

And I consider the Hyundai a pony. The original Z was a very specialized car; meant to do one thing well and that was hug the road. The Hyundai is more like an American pony car in that it seems to focus on all around performance for the money involved (meaning it has an equal focus on handling, acceleration, top speed, etc.) and no only that, it has a back seat, which disqualifies it from being in the same class as the classic 240Z, which is one of the best cars ever made I might add.

Granted, they added a stretched Z later on, but all real Zs have only two seats.

[ShinGouki]

GM was willing to share Camaro costs with the upcoming Impala until Dictator Pelosi took control of the auto industry in late 2007 with the Energy Independence and Security Act that outlawed the Impala Project. The LS3 was slated to be in both the Camaro and Impala, and the Impala was slated to join the Camaro on the Holden Commodore chassis. (The Holden is an Australian GM car.) Of course, the LS3 is based on the new-generation small block engine used in trucks that GM had to stuff a 325 into a Colorado pickup truck this year after running just 4 and 5 cylinder engines in the Isuzu designs.

Ah, the RWD Impala I remember that. Would have shared the same features and price of the Pontiac G8.

GM is taking it's sweet time with the new Impala, which will be FWD again unfortunately. That car hasn't seen a truly massive redesign since the late 90s.

[Oddball]

Retro schmetro....Gimmie the original Detroit iron any day of the week!!
http://www.classicauto-sales.com/cars/car163/p1_t.jpg

[ShinGouki]

Retro schmetro....Gimmie the original Detroit iron any day of the week!!
http://www.classicauto-sales.com/cars/car163/p1_t.jpg

I've always wanted to have a '69 Camaro Z28 with a 302 (debored 305). But that's alot of money and I couldn't afford to drive it. If I buy a car, I plan on driving it ALOT.

[Oddball]

I've seen plenty of Shelby Mustangs with over 100,000 miles on them.

Just because you drive something a lot doesn't mean that it cannot be well cared for.

[WhiteHatBobby]

Ah, the RWD Impala I remember that. Would have shared the same features and price of the (Holden Commodore).

GM is taking it's sweet time with the new Impala, which will be FWD again unfortunately. That car hasn't seen a truly massive redesign since the late 90s.

And that, as Bob Lutz said, is a byproduct of the stupid Pelosi Administration's signal on automobile policy.

Remember, Dale Jr even test-drove a Commodore a while back on a trip to Australia. He was waiting to have that car come as an Impala in the US, and the new Camaro was to share its underpinnings with the next Impala.

[ShinGouki]

I've seen plenty of Shelby Mustangs with over 100,000 miles on them.

Just because you drive something a lot doesn't mean that it cannot be well cared for.

That's not what I meant. I meant the fuel economy on those old muscle cars is atrocious. I know a guy with a 69 Camaro SS and it's cheaper for him to drive his Dodge 3500 Duelie than the Camaro.

Now, I wouldn't mind sticking a smaller engine in it. Like on the Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift; the Mustang on the end had a Twin-Turbo V6 in it. That's the cool thing about all old cars; you can pretty much bolt in any engine you want to as long as you're willing to do a little cutting. They weren't specialized like cars are now. I've seen 1st generation Mustangs with Chevy small blocks. Quite a common event. I've even seen a Datsun 240z with a bolted-in Chevy small block 350ci.

[ShinGouki]

And that, as Bob Lutz said, is a byproduct of the stupid Pelosi Administration's signal on automobile policy.

Remember, Dale Jr even test-drove a Commodore a while back on a trip to Australia. He was waiting to have that car come as an Impala in the US, and the new Camaro was to share its underpinnings with the next Impala.

The G8 also shares the Zeta platform and is a great car.

The problem with Zeta is it's weight. The G8 is a 4000 pound car. Just a tad too heavy, although it's still lighter than the Chrysler LX cars.

[CaptainPike]

I'm not much of a car fan. When I was younger I bought a new Camaro (in 1997). I loved that car a lot, but every car after that was just cars that run, and not necessarily cars that I like.

I am glad to see the Camaro making a comeback.

[ShinGouki]

I'm not much of a car fan. When I was younger I bought a new Camaro (in 1997). I loved that car a lot, but every car after that was just cars that run, and not necessarily cars that I like.

I am glad to see the Camaro making a comeback.

I understand how you feel. I'm pretty young (only 19) and I'm still using my first vehicle, a 2001 Nissan Frontier XE Crew Cab with 176,000 miles. Runs like a dream, reliable, and has 4 full size doors. A perfect first truck, but I'm not a truck fan. I prefer sports coupes or sporty sedans (think BMW 3-series or a Lexus IS) that are low to the ground.

But I'm happy to just have a good vehicle given to me. Alot of my friends in high school either bummed rides (off of me or other people) or had trucks/cars that were older than they were. Not older in a good way either; I'm talking about 87 Mustangs that had mis-matching parts and Silverados with about 400,000 miles and transmission fluid leaks.

[Samm]

I like all three of them; the Mustang, the Challenger and the Camero. (I am not familiar with the Hyundai) Ford in particular did a fantastic job with the 'stang.

I owned a 70 Camero... a ***** cat version - only a 300 horse 350. I sold it in a moment of weakness (and financial desperation) and have regretted that ever since; it is the only car I wish I still owned.

[Samm]

You mean the Nissan/Datsun 240Z my friend. :)

And I consider the Hyundai a pony. The original Z was a very specialized car; meant to do one thing well and that was hug the road. The Hyundai is more like an American pony car in that it seems to focus on all around performance for the money involved (meaning it has an equal focus on handling, acceleration, top speed, etc.) and no only that, it has a back seat, which disqualifies it from being in the same class as the classic 240Z, which is one of the best cars ever made I might add.

Granted, they added a stretched Z later on, but all real Zs have only two seats.

I came very close to buying a Z-car in 1970. They were only $3600 and I could have paid cash for it, but I was headed out of the country so I decided to wait till I got back. When I returned in '71 they had gone up to $4400 and then I discovered that insurance would cost me $800 for six months, so I bought the used '70 Camero instead.

[KYCutlassGuy]

You mean the Nissan/Datsun 240Z my friend. :)

And I consider the Hyundai a pony. The original Z was a very specialized car; meant to do one thing well and that was hug the road. The Hyundai is more like an American pony car in that it seems to focus on all around performance for the money involved (meaning it has an equal focus on handling, acceleration, top speed, etc.) and no only that, it has a back seat, which disqualifies it from being in the same class as the classic 240Z, which is one of the best cars ever made I might add.

Granted, they added a stretched Z later on, but all real Zs have only two seats.

No, I was talking about the 300Z, but the 240 would fit the definition too. The only reason for the Hyundai to exist is all of the little tuner guys were reaching the limitations of their FWD civics. It's still the same formula, small 4 cyl and token 6 cyl occassionally, just with the wheels driven from the proper end of the car.

[WhiteHatBobby]

I understand how you feel. I'm pretty young (only 19) and I'm still using my first vehicle, a 2001 Nissan Frontier XE Crew Cab with 176,000 miles. Runs like a dream, reliable, and has 4 full size doors. A perfect first truck, but I'm not a truck fan. I prefer sports coupes or sporty sedans (think BMW 3-series or a Lexus IS) that are low to the ground.

But I'm happy to just have a good vehicle given to me. Alot of my friends in high school either bummed rides (off of me or other people) or had trucks/cars that were older than they were. Not older in a good way either; I'm talking about 87 Mustangs that had mis-matching parts and Silverados with about 400,000 miles and transmission fluid leaks.

400,000 miles on Silverados? Those small blocks are bulletproof. And as for transmission fluid leaks, how many 4L60's (TH-400, 4L60, 4L(65/70/80)E) are there on the road, and which ones run better, the ones built by UAW union shops, or ones built by privateers with grit, personal work, and just plain old ingenuity?

[spearmaster]

I meant the base model has the 4.0 mill lol.

I've never really cared for Mustangs too much. I'm actually more of a ricer type of guy (planning to buy a RX-7 or a Nissan 300ZX at some point) with a love of Japanese engineering. But when it comes to American, I'm all about Camaros, Firebirds, and Corvettes.

Yeah, the GT still uses the 4.6L DOHC V8. They all have their roots in the early 90s; I think the first Ford to get the engine was Lincoln with the In-Tech 4.6L DOHC. Then the Mustang got it in 96 (or was it 97?) in a SOHC config. Then the F-150 with the Triton. And so on and so forth.

It's a good engine. Problem is that it's way too small. They need to stick a re-tuned 5.4L in the GT to get some extra juice. If it was me, I'd go ahead and go to a 5.7L, aka a bored 5.4L.

I guess money is the obstacle, but if GM can make those monsterous LS engines affordable, I'm sure Ford can too.

I think they went into Mustangs in 1996, yeah they were really weak until 1999 when Ford figured out the cylinder heads on 4.6L's caused the lack of performance. 4.6L's have some power if one is willing to tinker around with them a little. I liked the 5.0L's myself ;).

Really I'm more of a classic muscle car kind of guy.

[spearmaster]

Retro schmetro....Gimmie the original Detroit iron any day of the week!!
http://www.classicauto-sales.com/cars/car163/p1_t.jpg

That's a sweet 1970 'Cuda.

[spearmaster]

I've always wanted to have a '69 Camaro Z28 with a 302 (debored 305). But that's alot of money and I couldn't afford to drive it. If I buy a car, I plan on driving it ALOT.

I like Camero's and Firebirds but as far as GM's go I was always really fond of Chevelle's and Nova's. Man all this talk about old muscle cars makes me want to go out and work on my old Cougar. :razz:

[khigh]

I'm not into cars at all, but if I had to get one, it would be the Shelby Mustang. I like big trucks with a presence on the road. Nothing says "move out of my way" more than an 89 Bronco with a 351 Windsor and a steel frame. Just picked up a 2007 Toyota Tundra with a V-8 today. Best ride of my life.

[spearmaster]

I'm not into cars at all, but if I had to get one, it would be the Shelby Mustang. I like big trucks with a presence on the road. Nothing says "move out of my way" more than an 89 Bronco with a 351 Windsor and a steel frame. Just picked up a 2007 Toyota Tundra with a V-8 today. Best ride of my life.

Shelby's are niiiice. :drool:

I do agree, nothing says "move!" quite like an old Ford truck or Bronco. I love my old '86 F150 4x4.