10 cents more on a gallon of gas.....

[Screaming Conservative]

According to Jamie DuPre, Congress is debating the addition of 10 cents per gallon of gas in FEDERAL taxes. The reason: not enough money to pay for all the road building and bridge fixing to be done. So, when you start rejoicing about Federal money coming into your state to fix the infastructure of the highway system, this is how it's going to be paid.

Also being debated is an additional tax being added when you exceed a certain amount of miles driven. Yes......Big Brother will be counting your miles and taxing you. It would be like a PikePass system in recording, but Jamie said they didn't think it would pass AT THIS TIME.

[Beccaria]

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you drive two seats, I'll tax the seat
If it gets too cold, I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Taxman.

[Miss America]

they are a bunch of bloodsuckers...

[bloods vs crips]

good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.

[freethinkeratl]

well my 14 soon to be 8 bucks extra a week just went right out the window.....

[rodlang]

Is this separate from the carbon tax that Obama is proposing? Might be time to bring back the passenger train.

[bloods vs crips]

well my 14 soon to be 8 bucks extra a week just went right out the window.....

why, do you drive an 18wheeler for a living? Otherwise, you won't even notice the difference. Hell, even when gas was at $4/gallon, the average driver only spent an additional $75 per month.

[Miss America]

So why bother to build roads..if nobody can afford to drive on them?

[kat]

According to Jamie DuPre, Congress is debating the addition of 10 cents per gallon of gas in FEDERAL taxes. The reason: not enough money to pay for all the road building and bridge fixing to be done. So, when you start rejoicing about Federal money coming into your state to fix the infastructure of the highway system, this is how it's going to be paid.

Also being debated is an additional tax being added when you exceed a certain amount of miles driven. Yes......Big Brother will be counting your miles and taxing you. It would be like a PikePass system in recording, but Jamie said they didn't think it would pass AT THIS TIME.


So where's all that wonderful stimulus money going?

[freethinkeratl]

good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.


This would never work. Once you open the tax door it never closes. Once you let the leeches latch on they do not want to let go. The moment you let them have that kind of control the scale starts elevating new benchmarks. If you give a mouse a cookie .....

[bloods vs crips]

Is this separate from the carbon tax that Obama is proposing? Might be time to bring back the passenger train.

it's long since been time to focus on trains. They are more than 10 times more efficient than trucks, and as an added bonus, they don't destroy the roads.

The Strategic Reserve needs to be terminated and instead used to invest into nationwide trains. There is no reason whatsoever that people should be flying in planes for a 200 mile trip.

[bloods vs crips]

This would never work. Once you open the tax door it never closes. Once you let the leeches latch on they do not want to let go. The moment you let them have that kind of control the scale starts elevating new benchmarks. If you give a mouse a cookie .....

I'm fully aware of the reality of the sitution, which is why I know we desperately need more revenue from a source that will keep on giving. $0.10 is going to do nothing to gasoline demand, but will greatly increase revenues.

[pattyk]

good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.

JUST ROLL OVER AND LET THEM FLEECE YOUR POCKETS WHY DON'TCHA

taxes NEVER GO DOWN

[Screaming Conservative]

So where's all that wonderful stimulus money going?

I think we are seeing the tip of the iceberg on how Obama intends to decrease the budget and get the stimulus paid for by the end of his term. We are going to be taxed on everything but the air we breathe!

[bloods vs crips]

JUST ROLL OVER AND LET THEM FLEECE YOUR POCKETS WHY DON'TCHA

taxes NEVER GO DOWN

I'm not going to argue against a tax that will have no impact on our lives, and is one of the very few ways that taxation is actually Constituitonal.

[freethinkeratl]

why, do you drive an 18wheeler for a living? Otherwise, you won't even notice the difference. Hell, even when gas was at $4/gallon, the average driver only spent an additional $75 per month.



you are saying the average driver only spent 18.75 extra per week when gas was 1/3 more? Moped maybe.

[Mohawk5]

Isn't this what the stimulus package was supposed to cover? Rebuilding our infrastructure?

What a load of dung!

[Navy Nuke]

You know what, the 8 billion they were "short" last year for road projects is just over the 7 billion they just passed in ear marks... hmm... maybe we shouldn't do earmarks anymore and just give it to the appropriate department for allocation?

This $.10 tax, plus the mileage tax, plus cap and trade... yeah, that will be a hefty overall increase. And you can't tell me they'll drop the $.10 tax when they start the mileage tax, when has government stopped a tax method?

[bloods vs crips]

You have some skewed numbers.

I spent close to 65 / week when gas was insane. I now spend about 45.

20 x 4 = 80.

you are saying the average driver only spent 18.75 extra per week when gas was 1/3 more? Moped maybe.

what car do you drive and how many miles per year? Those are the two things that determine what is average. My guess you either drive a car that gets less than average mpg, or you drive far more miles annually.

If you drove 1,000 miles per week, which is 4 times the national average, and had to fill up your 20 gallon tank 3 times per week, a $0.10 change in price is only $2 per week. The vast majority of people won't even notice this.

Furthermore, if $4 gasoline was breaking the bank, everyone should now be living it up.

[freethinkeratl]

You live in GA. Nothing is close, unless you work in a mall or at a grocery store everything is spread out, you know that.


As far as asking the government to be honest over our tax dollars, explain the GA 400 toll booth that was supposed to be taken down 3 different times, but the money generated to pay for the hwy keeps disapearing.

The toll booth will never go away. Once you open the door it stays open.

[neoINDIE]

good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.

So is the gas tax we already pay going towards roads, or something else?

[blackcatrun]

This would never work. Once you open the tax door it never closes. Once you let the leeches latch on they do not want to let go. The moment you let them have that kind of control the scale starts elevating new benchmarks. If you give a mouse a cookie .....

We have a temp "snack tax" up here to make up for a short fall in the state budget.


















That temp tax has lasted 10 or more years.

[bloods vs crips]

You live in GA. Nothing is close, unless you work in a mall or at a grocery store everything is spread out, you know that.


As far as asking the government to be honest over our tax dollars, explain the GA 400 toll booth that was supposed to be taken down 3 different times, but the money generated to pay for the hwy keeps disapearing.

The toll booth will never go away. Once you open the door it stays open.

actually, everything is close to me in the city. But that's besides the point. The entire country is set up in practically the same way, that's why the average consumer only drives 12-15k miles with a 20mpg vehicle. They won't even notice a $0.10 tax change. Furthermore, even with gas at $4, it shouldn't affect their finances. People that HAVE to drive much more, is a different story, but that is the extreme minority.

[bloods vs crips]

So is the gas tax we already pay going towards roads, or something else?

we do more damage on the infrastructure than we take in each year. We have essentially a net loss.

[blackcatrun]

So is the gas tax we already pay going towards roads, or something else?

Something eles.

It also gets sucked up in cost over runs for pet projects.

The Big Dig was a perfect example of how the transportation money gets spent by government.

[jmb6]

good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.

Let's hide how much are taxes and how much is profiteering! That is what you are recommending. if we set the price of gas at 5.00 the Federal Government will indirectly be subsidizing oil company waste.

Fantastic idea! :rolleyes:

[blackcatrun]

we do more damage on the infrastructure than we take in each year. We have essentially a net loss.

No we dont.

[kat]

I think we are seeing the tip of the iceberg on how Obama intends to decrease the budget and get the stimulus paid for by the end of his term. We are going to be taxed on everything but the air we breathe!



Not so fast! Americans exhale carbon!

Double tax the illegal aliens. There's some windfall profit if ya ever seen it.

[bloods vs crips]

No we dont.

It's my understanding that the funds and resources needed to adequately maintain the infrastructure outpaces our fuel tax revenues each year. Furthermore, because of our inability to address the repairs at the time, deferring the maintenance exponentially increases the costs over time.

[RedStatePaPa]

Well where else was it supposed to come from?

[countzero123]

I'm too disgusted to say anything witty or useful myself, so I'll just share a quote:

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." -- Winston Churchill (http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/3463)

[neoINDIE]

we do more damage on the infrastructure than we take in each year. We have essentially a net loss.

That isn't what I asked. Id 100% of the gas tax going to what it is supposed to go for?

[blackcatrun]

It's my understanding that the funds and resources needed to adequately maintain the infrastructure outpaces our fuel tax revenues each year. Furthermore, because of our inability to address the repairs at the time, deferring the maintenance exponentially increases the costs over time.

No. This is a game. Like any good game one needs a point to play that game. In this case a nice fat easy living.
Mark off fifty miles of turnpike with cones and let it sit collect money like some thing is being done. Ghost construction.

Or they get a nice fat project like the Big Dig project in Mass and milk it dry in cost over runs.

What happens is the states leadership gets a freind or relative on the pay roll. Get a nice fat check and then a nice fat retirement.
Expencive union contracts most of the state gets a hand in for a few 100 grand.
Been going on for years in many, many states.


How this for an answer ?...NO.

[bloods vs crips]

That isn't what I asked. Id 100% of the gas tax going to what it is supposed to go for?

lol, of course not. The very beauracracy alone eats up half I'm sure. Just like with the income tax, the IRS itself consumes a lot of the revenue. Not to mention the costs of assessing repairs, overpaying for stuff that was previously deferred, paying for design plans for new work etc.

[bloods vs crips]

No. This is a game. Like any good game one needs a point to play that game. In this case a nice fat easy living.
Mark off fifty miles of turnpike with cones and let it sit collect money like some thing is being done. Ghost construction.

Or they get a nice fat project like the Big Dig project in Mass and milk it dry in cost over runs.

What happens is the states leadership gets a freind or relative on the pay roll. Get a nice fat check and then a nice fat retirement.
Expencive union contracts most of the state gets a hand in for a few 100 grand.
Been going on for years in many, many states.


How this for an answer ?...NO.

that's the nature of government, and the corruption it brings. You'll get no argument from me there.

[Gengar]

I'm fully aware of the reality of the sitution, which is why I know we desperately need more revenue from a source that will keep on giving. $0.10 is going to do nothing to gasoline demand, but will greatly increase revenues.

More revenue? How about the Government cut spending first.

[bloods vs crips]

More revenue? How about the Government cut spending first.

absolutely. Good luck getting the right to cut the several bloated military, or the left to cut the ridiculously out of control social services.

I'm for a annual cut budget wide of 25%, until we have a surplus of $250B.

[Cutiepie]

wait a minute. I thought this stupid stimulus bill was for projects like that. So, now it isn't for projects like that? What in the hell was that money for then?

[neoINDIE]

lol, of course not. The very beauracracy alone eats up half I'm sure. Just like with the income tax, the IRS itself consumes a lot of the revenue. Not to mention the costs of assessing repairs, overpaying for stuff that was previously deferred, paying for design plans for new work etc.

And you are still OK giving them more?

Both parties crammed the last spending bill with pork and not needed projects, essentially saying those are more important than basis infrastructure.


Thats just plain idiotic.

[neoINDIE]

absolutely. Good luck getting the right to cut the several bloated military, or the left to cut the ridiculously out of control social services.

I'm for a annual cut budget wide of 25%, until we have a surplus of $250B.

This we agree on. There is a huge amount of waste in both.

But who do we trust to cut the right things?

[bloods vs crips]

This we agree on. There is a huge amount of waste in both.

But who do we trust to cut the right things?

that's why I don't want someone picking and chosing, I want a budget wide cut, equally for all departments.

[Bluesgtr44]

good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.

Yes it will have an impact on many people and revenue "streams" enough already for the Feds......they have a serious spending problem. We do not need a sliding gas scale or anything of the sort from the federal standpoint. Leave most of this to the states and they can handle it at a smaller (non-micromanagement) scale and actually be able to be more responsive to the reality of their own republics.

What good is a tax break on our FIT if he's just going to go through the back door and get even more back! Look, I don't care how they do it, it the overall is a loss to our own personal incomes as far as taxes go, then it's B.S.! Please call it that!

He said that anyone making under 250,000 will see a tax cut....he only meant in the FIT witholdings......what a scam!

[bloods vs crips]

And you are still OK giving them more?

Both parties crammed the last spending bill with pork and not needed projects, essentially saying those are more important than basis infrastructure.


Thats just plain idiotic.

I don't believe in using debt to pay our bills.

[bloods vs crips]

Yes it will have an impact on many people and revenue "streams" enough already for the Feds......they have a serious spending problem. We do not need a sliding gas scale or anything of the sort from the federal standpoint. Leave most of this to the states and they can handle it at a smaller (non-micromanagement) scale and actually be able to be more responsive to the reality of their own republics.

What good is a tax break on our FIT if he's just going to go through the back door and get even more back! Look, I don't care how they do it, it the overall is a loss to our own personal incomes as far as taxes go, then it's B.S.! Please call it that!

He said that anyone making under 250,000 will see a tax cut....he only meant in the FIT witholdings......what a scam!

We have a massive spending problem, but if I get 5 people on this forum and try to go through the budget and remove $1 trillion, it's going to be impossible.

You aren't even going to notice a $0.10 gas hike. Even if you're driving 1,000 each week you won't notice.

[neoINDIE]

I don't believe in using debt to pay our bills.

Well, we both agree spending should be cut.

I just think that should happen first, before raising taxes.

[neoINDIE]

We have a massive spending problem, but if I get 5 people on this forum and try to go through the budget and remove $1 trillion, it's going to be impossible.

You aren't even going to notice a $0.10 gas hike. Even if you're driving 1,000 each week you won't notice.

:)) That depends on which 5 people....

[deportalllibs]

Obama was just on the TV this morning again spouting off that people earning under $250k won't see their taxes increase not 1 dime. *** Obama???

He's also raising the cigarrette tax, of course our local governments have piled on the liberal tax and spend bandwagon and raised gas and cigarrette taxes this week.

Libs answer me this, just how much money is enough I mean is there some figure at which point you will all say okay we now have enough money or is no amount of MY money ever going to be enough to feed your borrow, tax, and spend habit?

[Consmike]

That is a great idea. what the hell was the reason for passing the stimulus bill for?

[bloods vs crips]

Well, we both agree spending should be cut.

I just think that should happen first, before raising taxes.

the problem is that spending is increasing faster than taxes, thereby massively increasing debt.

[bloods vs crips]

Obama was just on the TV this morning again spouting off that people earning under $250k won't see their taxes increase not 1 dime. *** Obama???

He's also raising the cigarrette tax, of course our local governments have piled on the liberal tax and spend bandwagon and raised gas and cigarrette taxes this week.

Libs answer me this, just how much money is enough I mean is there some figure at which point you will all say okay we now have enough money or is no amount of MY money ever going to be enough to feed your borrow, tax, and spend habit?

you're acting like this hasn't been the exact same policies of the last few years. It's nothing new.

[Bluesgtr44]

We have a massive spending problem, but if I get 5 people on this forum and try to go through the budget and remove $1 trillion, it's going to be impossible.

You aren't even going to notice a $0.10 gas hike. Even if you're driving 1,000 each week you won't notice.

Yes I would! Where do you get that! You know, it's more the ineptness of our government that gets me anymore. It is a problem with spending....they are out of control with "buy a vote" scheme. Both parties talk a lot of stuff, but nothing really changes. He never intended for people to really have less taxes overall, never did! HE LIED TO US, HE PREYED ON OUR FEARS!

[bloods vs crips]

Yes I would! Where do you get that! You know, it's more the ineptness of our government that gets me anymore. It is a problem with spending....they are out of control with "buy a vote" scheme. Both parties talk a lot of stuff, but nothing really changes. He never intended for people to really have less taxes overall, never did! HE LIED TO US, HE PREYED ON OUR FEARS!

You would notice a $5 per month change in your gas prices?

So you don't support either party?

[deportalllibs]

you're acting like this hasn't been the exact same policies of the last few years. It's nothing new.

'exact same policies' okie dokie sure Obama and Bush mirror images. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Cutiepie]

You would notice a $5 per month change in your gas prices?

So you don't support either party?



How many people drive in your household? How many cars do you have?

We have three vehicles and three driver's and we noticed a HUGE difference in our gas bill when the gas prices went down.

[bloods vs crips]

'exact same policies' okie dokie sure Obama and Bush mirror images. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

in all intents and purposes yes. What in your life specifically has changed because of Obama?

[neoINDIE]

'exact same policies' okie dokie sure Obama and Bush mirror images. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

While Obama was been worse than even the most cynical of us expected, Bush and the Republicans did their fair share of adding to the deficit and debt.

[bloods vs crips]

How many people drive in your household? How many cars do you have?

We have three vehicles and three driver's and we noticed a HUGE difference in our gas bill when the gas prices went down.

came down from $4? That's not even close to a $0.10 change.

On average you should see no more than $5 per month increase on each vehicle's fuel cost if a $0.10 tax was added to each gallon.

[bloods vs crips]

While Obama was been worse than even the most cynical of us expected, Bush and the Republicans did their fair share of adding to the deficit and debt.

worse than what? He is following almost the exact same economic policies started last year by Bush Co.

[neoINDIE]

You would notice a $5 per month change in your gas prices?

So you don't support either party?

Every little thing adds up. Thats how all these "little" projects in the millions add up to trillions.

You add the $5/mo tax you pay on your phone bill, the gas tax, the extra tax on your other utilities, etc then yes, most of us notice that.

[BravoBuzzard]

Except for the cross country, independent truck drivers who move our goods from coast to coast. They then will pass on the 'savings' to the distributors, who then will pass on the savings to us.

If our economy wasn't weak enough...


good. It's a perfect time to increase the gas tax. Gas prices are low enough that a $0.10 tax hike will have no impact on fuel purchases, but will have an enormous impact on revenue streams.

I've been arguing for a sliding gas tax scale for a long time. When prices are low, taxes should increase to take advantage of easier revenue, and when prices increase, the tax should drop to avoid damaging consumer purchases.

[bloods vs crips]

Every little thing adds up. Thats how all these "little" projects in the millions add up to trillions.

You add the $5/mo tax you pay on your phone bill, the gas tax, the extra tax on your other utilities, etc then yes, most of us notice that.

goal posts?

You simply will not notice a $0.10 gas change in your budget. Obviously if you drive for a living it's different.

[neoINDIE]

worse than what? He is following almost the exact same economic policies started last year by Bush Co.

No, he and the dems are worse. How much money had been approved since he took office?

[bloods vs crips]

No, he and the dems are worse. How much money had been approved since he took office?

approved? Lol, who cares. The FED spent trillions last year before he was in office.

What is your argument really, that Obama has put more stimulus money out there than Bush so he is worse?

[neoINDIE]

goal posts?

You simply will not notice a $0.10 gas change in your budget. Obviously if you drive for a living it's different.

The point is that all these "little taxes that you won't notice the difference" add up together to be very noticable.

Looking big picture vs small picture.

[bloods vs crips]

Except for the cross country, independent truck drivers who move our goods from coast to coast. They then will pass on the 'savings' to the distributors, who then will pass on the savings to us.

If our economy wasn't weak enough...

yeah it sucks to be them. Diesel however, isn't gasoline, so it's not relevant to the "gasoline tax" discussion. Furthermore trucks are 10x less efficient than a train carrying the same weight in goods the same distance. They also destroy the roads far more than they bring in revenue.

The economy will never be able to sustain growth predicated on the the formula: consumption - waste - replace

At some point, especially when the consumption is driven by debt, it stops growing, and the economy collapses.

[Cutiepie]

came down from $4? That's not even close to a $0.10 change.

On average you should see no more than $5 per month increase on each vehicle's fuel cost if a $0.10 tax was added to each gallon.




You are not getting this. Not everyone drives a little 4 cylinder. Yes, my family has good gas mileage vehicles but, not everyone does. So, that ten cents will add up and will put a dent in their budget. Right now, the food prices have gone up. Even for us they have gone up and we are NOT buying anything extra. So, to pay an extra $5 a month and plus the grocery bill that is out of sight is a little hard on the middle class family. You know the one that GObama! the idiot promised to help. Which btw, he isn't going to help b/c when he raises taxes we end up getting the brunt of it. It will affect the poor too.

[deportalllibs]

approved? Lol, who cares. The FED spent trillions last year before he was in office.

What is your argument really, that Obama has put more stimulus money out there than Bush so he is worse?

Stimulus? You mean its not a giant pile of useless liberal pet spending projects its stimulus? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Serenity Now!!!!!!

[BravoBuzzard]

I can't believe that I am actually seeing somebody argue for an increase in taxes.

You are totally brainwashed my friend. You have been completely indoctrinated.


actually, everything is close to me in the city. But that's besides the point. The entire country is set up in practically the same way, that's why the average consumer only drives 12-15k miles with a 20mpg vehicle. They won't even notice a $0.10 tax change. Furthermore, even with gas at $4, it shouldn't affect their finances. People that HAVE to drive much more, is a different story, but that is the extreme minority.

[bloods vs crips]

The point is that all these "little taxes that you won't notice the difference" add up together to be very noticable.

Looking big picture vs small picture.

and you don't HAVE to have anything of these things. That is the point of a sales tax. You personally have the choice to not purchase items and save yourself taxation. This is precisely why the income tax was shoved down our throats, to gain access to the unspent money.

[Cutiepie]

approved? Lol, who cares. The FED spent trillions last year before he was in office.

What is your argument really, that Obama has put more stimulus money out there than Bush so he is worse?



The stimulus that won't help.

[BravoBuzzard]

You know what I did to get myself out of debt? I cut my spending, focused in on one aspect of my debt, killed it, and moved on to a new target. I had no choice. I couldn't go to my employer (US Army) and tell them to pay me more money to help pay for my debt. I was forced to live within my means.


yeah it sucks to be them. Diesel however, isn't gasoline, so it's not relevant to the "gasoline tax" discussion. Furthermore trucks are 10x less efficient than a train carrying the same weight in goods the same distance. They also destroy the roads far more than they bring in revenue.

The economy will never be able to sustain growth predicated on the the formula: consumption - waste - replace

At some point, especially when the consumption is driven by debt, it stops growing, and the economy collapses.

[bloods vs crips]

I can't believe that I am actually seeing somebody argue for an increase in taxes.

You are totally brainwashed my friend. You have been completely indoctrinated.

that's because you don't understand the process. Sales taxes are the only Constitutionally supported taxes we use. I despise taxes because they give us bigger government.

I'd prefer to get rid of the income tax today. We don't even need to replace it with anything. Clinton's budget in 1995 would be covered by every tax revenue even without the income tax.

[bloods vs crips]

The stimulus that won't help.

obviously. Why would anyone support a politician that votes for stimulus packages?

[Cutiepie]

and you don't HAVE to have anything of these things. That is the point of a sales tax. You personally have the choice to not purchase items and save yourself taxation. This is precisely why the income tax was shoved down our throats, to gain access to the unspent money.




so no one should buy groceries? Are you kidding me?

[Cutiepie]

obviously. Why would anyone support a politician that votes for stimulus packages?



It was one big pork bill that none of the dems bothered to read. There is NOTHING in that stupid porkulus bill that will help the middle class families.

[bloods vs crips]

You know what I did to get myself out of debt? I cut my spending, focused in on one aspect of my debt, killed it, and moved on to a new target. I had no choice. I couldn't go to my employer (US Army) and tell them to pay me more money to help pay for my debt. I was forced to live within my means.

what does this have to do with what the post you quoted? The economy cannot survive when it is forced to rely on debt driven consumption. We are at that point now, and I doubt the dollar will survive the meddling from the FED.

[BravoBuzzard]

I totally agree. Get rid of Capital Gains taxes, income taxes, etc... and only tax on a voluntary bassis. But to argue for more taxes on top of all other taxes?


that's because you don't understand the process. Sales taxes are the only Constitutionally supported taxes we use. I despise taxes because they give us bigger government.

I'd prefer to get rid of the income tax today. We don't even need to replace it with anything. Clinton's budget in 1995 would be covered by every tax revenue even without the income tax.

[bloods vs crips]

so no one should buy groceries? Are you kidding me?

um seriously? You don't have to buy everything you buy. There are dozens of items each month you pay sales tax on that you simply do not NEED. Nice play at an empotional string though.

[BravoBuzzard]

I'm saying that we're in debt because of the spending, not because of the taxes that are being paid to the Fed. Cut the spending. Cut it until it hurts.


what does this have to do with what the post you quoted? The economy cannot survive when it is forced to rely on debt driven consumption. We are at that point now, and I doubt the dollar will survive the meddling from the FED.

[87rch]

Seems to me if they have $800 billion for a stimulus bill, $400 billion for the omnibus bill, $75 billion for the mortgage bill, $350 billion for TARP II...then they should have enough for the roads. Maybe they should try cutting spending somewhere else before they raise taxes...again.

Obama promised tax cuts for 95% of American workers…seems that raising the gas tax would kind of raise taxes on 100% of American workers.

Well, he’s already broken every other promise…I guess it’s only fitting.

[bloods vs crips]

I totally agree. Get rid of Capital Gains taxes, income taxes, etc... and only tax on a voluntary bassis. But to argue for more taxes on top of all other taxes?

the government has no right to indebt it's citizens by not properly charging taxes as we go.

[Cutiepie]

um seriously? You don't have to buy everything you buy. There are dozens of items each month you pay sales tax on that you simply do not NEED. Nice play at an empotional string though.




You are not getting this. My family is NOT buying things we don't need. We are buying the esstinessals and our grocery bill has gone up. Here in Georgia we pay a sales tax on food.

[bloods vs crips]

I'm saying that we're in debt because of the spending, not because of the taxes that are being paid to the Fed. Cut the spending. Cut it until it hurts.

You're talking about National Debt, I'm talking about consumer debt. Our economy now survives solely on the existance of consumer debt. Without it, businesses stop producing, clients stop consuming, and so on. It's a ridiculous system based on a illogical premise, that consumption always grows.

[bloods vs crips]

You are not getting this. My family is NOT buying things we don't need. We are buying the esstinessals and our grocery bill has gone up. Here in Georgia we pay a sales tax on food.

of course your grocery bill has gone up, produce prices and transportation has gone up, it's only logical.

You haven't bought one item of clothing you don't actually need? You didn't purchase any gifts for Christmas? You don't have multiple cell phones, tvs, cars, etc.

[Cutiepie]

of course your grocery bill has gone up, produce prices and transportation has gone up, it's only logical.

You haven't bought one item of clothing you don't actually need? You didn't purchase any gifts for Christmas? You don't have multiple cell phones, tvs, cars, etc.




We paid cash for all of our Christmas gifts. No, I have not bought any new clothing in a very long time. We got rid of our land lines and all of us got cell phones b/c the land lines was getting ridiculus. We have only 2 tv's, and all three of us work so, we only have 3 cars.

[neoINDIE]

and you don't HAVE to have anything of these things. That is the point of a sales tax. You personally have the choice to not purchase items and save yourself taxation. This is precisely why the income tax was shoved down our throats, to gain access to the unspent money.

Yeah, I don't have to have internet, phone, heat, electricity, fuel, etc.

Your right.

[bloods vs crips]

We paid cash for all of our Christmas gifts. No, I have not bought any new clothing in a very long time. We got rid of our land lines and all of us got cell phones b/c the land lines was getting ridiculus. We have only 2 tv's, and all three of us work so, we only have 3 cars.

So your argument is that your Christmas gifts were cash so you didn't pay sales tax on them?

There are so many things the average person buys throughout the year that they simply do not NEED. Paying sales tax on those can be avoided. How can you deny that?

[bloods vs crips]

Yeah, I don't have to have internet, phone, heat, electricity, fuel, etc.

Your right.

actually, if you want to get technical, you don't. We chose to live in a society that affords us certain pleasures, one of the costs of such is taxation. To deny that some of those taxes can be avoided by curbing spending is futile.

[Cutiepie]

So your argument is that your Christmas gifts were cash so you didn't pay sales tax on them?

There are so many things the average person buys throughout the year that they simply do not NEED. Paying sales tax on those can be avoided. How can you deny that?




Nice deflection. You asked if we bought Christmas presents. We paid cash. We didn't charge anything. We always pay cash for things. There is no charging in this family. You are telling me that we don't need things and we are not out buying things we don't need. We are only buying the esstentials.

Now I get where you are going with this. You think that all women should stay home and be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen :naughty:

[BravoBuzzard]

So now we need to sacrifice our standard of living?


um seriously? You don't have to buy everything you buy. There are dozens of items each month you pay sales tax on that you simply do not NEED. Nice play at an empotional string though.

[bloods vs crips]

Nice deflection. You asked if we bought Christmas presents. We paid cash. We didn't charge anything. We always pay cash for things. There is no charging in this family. You are telling me that we don't need things and we are not out buying things we don't need. We are only buying the esstentials.

I didn't deflect anything, you simply forgot what we were discussing, sales tax.

Whether you pay in cash or not is irrelevant, the sales tax is still applied to the purchase.

You may very well be more stringent with your purchases than most, but to imply that you ONLY buy the essentials is hilarious.

[bloods vs crips]

So now we need to sacrifice our standard of living?

if you don't want any sales tax then yes. Everyone buys things they don't need, therefore everyone pays more sales tax than they have to. There is simply no way to argue that.

[Cutiepie]

I didn't deflect anything, you simply forgot what we were discussing, sales tax.

Whether you pay in cash or not is irrelevant, the sales tax is still applied to the purchase.

You may very well be more stringent with your purchases than most, but to imply that you ONLY buy the essentials is hilarious.




that is all we buy. You would be floored if you came to our house and saw that our house is basically boring. I literally don't have any decorations up b/c we don't have that money to go out and buy those type of things. We are only buying the essentials. What we need and not what we don't need.

[Cutiepie]

if you don't want any sales tax then yes. Everyone buys things they don't need, therefore everyone pays more sales tax than they have to. There is simply no way to argue that.



So buying groceries is things we don't need? Come on. You have to eat to live.

[BravoBuzzard]

I'm personally debt free except for a couple of properties, but how else can you continue to move capital without debt?


You're talking about National Debt, I'm talking about consumer debt. Our economy now survives solely on the existance of consumer debt. Without it, businesses stop producing, clients stop consuming, and so on. It's a ridiculous system based on a illogical premise, that consumption always grows.

[87rch]

actually, if you want to get technical, you don't. We chose to live in a society that affords us certain pleasures, one of the costs of such is taxation. To deny that some of those taxes can be avoided by curbing spending is futile.

So then you agree, the government shouldn't be using my tax money to give people luxuries like internet, phone, heat, electricity, fuel, etc.

[bloods vs crips]

that is all we buy. You would be floored if you came to our house and saw that our house is basically boring. I literally don't have any decorations up b/c we don't have that money to go out and buy those type of things. We are only buying the essentials. What we need and not what we don't need.

I'm not gonna argue this anymore, it's pointless. If what you say is true you are probably far more frugel than most. You already admitted that you celebrated Christmas last year, that is certainly not an essential.

This isn't a personal attack, so there is no reason to take it as such. It's a generality that there are sales taxes that can be avoided by not purchasing nonessential things. When I say essential, I don't count tvs, cellphones, cable, internet, Christmas trees, etc.

[bloods vs crips]

So then you agree, the government shouldn't be using my tax money to give people luxuries like internet, phone, heat, electricity, fuel, etc.

damn right. They shouldn't even be supporting the systems that help run these luxuries either.

[bloods vs crips]

I'm personally debt free except for a couple of properties, but how else can you continue to move capital without debt?

who says you need to move capital? What's the end game, to get more money so you can have more resources. It's precisely on this premise that our economy is built, and is why if and when consumption drastically halts, the economy will disolve.

[Bertha]

According to Jamie DuPre, Congress is debating the addition of 10 cents per gallon of gas in FEDERAL taxes. The reason: not enough money to pay for all the road building and bridge fixing to be done. So, when you start rejoicing about Federal money coming into your state to fix the infastructure of the highway system, this is how it's going to be paid.

Also being debated is an additional tax being added when you exceed a certain amount of miles driven. Yes......Big Brother will be counting your miles and taxing you. It would be like a PikePass system in recording, but Jamie said they didn't think it would pass AT THIS TIME.

Tax cuts for 95% of Americans!

LOL -- what dupes.

[Cutiepie]

I'm not gonna argue this anymore, it's pointless. If what you say is true you are probably far more frugel than most. You already admitted that you celebrated Christmas last year, that is certainly not an essential.

This isn't a personal attack, so there is no reason to take it as such. It's a generality that there are sales taxes that can be avoided by not purchasing nonessential things. When I say essential, I don't count tvs, cellphones, cable, internet, Christmas trees, etc.



OMGosh!!! We have had our Christmas tree since 1990. We got rid of landlines b/c it was too expensive. Our cell phone bill is $160 cheaper.

Yes, I paid sales tax on our Christmas presents. But, you are not listening to what I am saying. We did NOT charge any of those gifts. It was all cash. You had claimed earlier about people buying things on credit. I was basically telling you we didn't. We bought it all cash.

We take a trip every Thanksgiving up to Ohio to see my husband's side of the family. It is all cash. We do NOT charge our hotel or our gas or our food.

[BravoBuzzard]

Then they should cut spending.

the government has no right to indebt it's citizens by not properly charging taxes as we go.

[BravoBuzzard]

That's the job of the producers, to keep Americans consuming.

What is the alternative? And, would life be as interesting?


who says you need to move capital? What's the end game, to get more money so you can have more resources. It's precisely on this premise that our economy is built, and is why if and when consumption drastically halts, the economy will disolve.

[roger teekell]

According to Jamie DuPre, Congress is debating the addition of 10 cents per gallon of gas in FEDERAL taxes. The reason: not enough money to pay for all the road building and bridge fixing to be done. So, when you start rejoicing about Federal money coming into your state to fix the infastructure of the highway system, this is how it's going to be paid.

Also being debated is an additional tax being added when you exceed a certain amount of miles driven. Yes......Big Brother will be counting your miles and taxing you. It would be like a PikePass system in recording, but Jamie said they didn't think it would pass AT THIS TIME.

Hold on a minute!!

I thought the STIMULOUS PLAN was being used to rebuild the roads,highways and other infrastructure!!??

Typical LIBERAL Ideology...

I've been saying on here for a LONG TIME!!

The fund that recieves these monies from Gas Taxes...That is SUPPOSED to be used for "Roads and Bridges" is more than likely being used much like the Social Security trust fund...

Being raided REGULARLY to fund political payoffs...I.E. Earmarks...

Why will no one look into this??!!

[bloods vs crips]

Then they should cut spending.

they should, but they don't. And practically no one cares to vote for someone that wants to. Therefore revenues have to be increased, otherwise debt takes over. And soon our dollar will face the ramifications of this.

[bloods vs crips]

That's the job of the producers, to keep Americans consuming.

What is the alternative? And, would life be as interesting?

I dismiss entirely the notion that pleasure can only be gained from growth in materialism.

[BravoBuzzard]

Maybe we should just let it, and then, maybe we'll learn our lesson?

they should, but they don't. And practically no one cares to vote for someone that wants to. Therefore revenues have to be increased, otherwise debt takes over. And soon our dollar will face the ramifications of this.

[bloods vs crips]

Maybe we should just let it, and then, maybe we'll learn our lesson?

just so you know, one of the ramifications would be a dissapearance of the US military.

[87rch]

who says you need to move capital? What's the end game, to get more money so you can have more resources. It's precisely on this premise that our economy is built, and is why if and when consumption drastically halts, the economy will disolve.


That's exactly what this thread is about. You don't tax consumption because it reduces consumption. All gas tax and sales tax and income tax and tax on tax do is reduce consumption and reduce the economy. So no sales tax would be good for the economy.


the government has no right to indebt it's citizens by not properly charging taxes as we go.

The government has no right to indebt it's citizens at all...period.

[BravoBuzzard]

It's obviously not the only place to gain pleasure, but for some, it is a quick fix.


I dismiss entirely the notion that pleasure can only be gained from growth in materialism.

[BravoBuzzard]

I've got 21 years in. I'll be retiring soon anyway. And, even if they are unable to pay my retirement, I've made smart investments throughout my life and I'll be fine. I own several properties around the country, and a couple of small properties around the world. If money becomes worthless, I know how to grow veggies, and I know how to hunt. In addition, I have an arsenal of weapons to provide my own law enforcement.


just so you know, one of the ramifications would be a dissapearance of the US military.

[neoINDIE]

actually, if you want to get technical, you don't. We chose to live in a society that affords us certain pleasures, one of the costs of such is taxation. To deny that some of those taxes can be avoided by curbing spending is futile.

When part of my phone tax is a tax so people who can't afford a phone on their own, I call ********.

You have to be able to apply some common sense.

[bloods vs crips]

That's exactly what this thread is about. You don't tax consumption because it reduces consumption. All gas tax and sales tax and income tax and tax on tax do is reduce consumption and reduce the economy. So no sales tax would be good for the economy.

Depending on the elasticity of the demand, it doesn't necessarily impact consumption. In this case, gasoline sales would not be impacted by a miniscule tax hike, because of the need of the product.

The government has no right to indebt it's citizens at all...period.

Exactly, when do you think debt occurs? When expenses outpace revenues.

[bloods vs crips]

I've got 21 years in. I'll be retiring soon anyway. And, even if they are unable to pay my retirement, I've made smart investments throughout my life and I'll be fine. I own several properties around the country, and a couple of small properties around the world. If money becomes worthless, I know how to grow veggies, and I know how to hunt. In addition, I have an arsenal of weapons to provide my own law enforcement.

then you'll likely be prepared.

[bloods vs crips]

When part of my phone tax is a tax so people who can't afford a phone on their own, I call ********.

You have to be able to apply some common sense.

the government designed and monitors the phone systems, of course they tax it.

[bigtwnvin]

why, do you drive an 18wheeler for a living? Otherwise, you won't even notice the difference. Hell, even when gas was at $4/gallon, the average driver only spent an additional $75 per month.
Umm my fuel cost went as high as $110.00/ tank. I cover 3 states and sometimes I have to fillup 3 times a week so lemme see oh yeah thats about $1,200.00/ month. Now I'm at about $50 bucks a tank so uhh lemmee see yep, I'm saving $600.00/ month. Yeah, and I thought I was going to buy a new truck too. :))
Keep Hopin' for yer "chump" Change :whistle:

[Samm]

what car do you drive and how many miles per year? Those are the two things that determine what is average. My guess you either drive a car that gets less than average mpg, or you drive far more miles annually.

If you drove 1,000 miles per week, which is 4 times the national average, and had to fill up your 20 gallon tank 3 times per week, a $0.10 change in price is only $2 per week. The vast majority of people won't even notice this.

Furthermore, if $4 gasoline was breaking the bank, everyone should now be living it up.

When gas was $1 per gallon, the Federal gas tax was 18.4 cents or 18.4%. With gas now around $2.25 it is still 18.4 cents, which is only 8% of the total, and at $4 per gallon it was and would again be only be 4.6% of the total. A ten cent hike in the gas would make the $2.25 gas $2.35 gas and the Federal tax would only be12% of the total... significantly lower than it was on the $1 per gallon gas. But who was complaining then?

Every body likes good roads; everybody bitches when they don't have good roads; yet it seems nobody wants to pay for them. Personally, I think the Federal gas tax should be raised 50 cents per gallon (10 cents per year for five years,) not just 10.

[Samm]

Hold on a minute!!

I thought the STIMULOUS PLAN was being used to rebuild the roads,highways and other infrastructure!!??

Typical LIBERAL Ideology...

I've been saying on here for a LONG TIME!!

The fund that recieves these monies from Gas Taxes...That is SUPPOSED to be used for "Roads and Bridges" is more than likely being used much like the Social Security trust fund...
Being raided REGULARLY to fund political payoffs...I.E. Earmarks...

Why will no one look into this??!!

The Highway Trust Fund is the only (as far as I can tell) true trust fund run by the Federal Government. All of the revenue that comes into this fund from taxes on gas, deisel and tires goes to the States for Transportation needs. None of it is even used to fund the operation of the FHWA... the Agency that administers the funds... they are funded from the General Fund. Granted, some of the money... about 15-20% is spent by the States to Design; perform Environmental Assessments and obtain permits; purchase rights of way; and prepare the Projects for bid, etc. But those are legitimate expenses... you cannot build that which has not been designed, permitted, and the title for the ground it sits on purchased.

If all Federal programs were run as well as the Highway Trust Fund, there would be a lot fewer problems coming from Washington.