Are women equal to men and are women the weaker sex?

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women? This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?

[Greyclouds]

Women and men are different yet equal members of the human species.

Different in physical attributes and characteristics, yet equal in terms of possession of human consciousness.

Having said that, those differences vary from individual to individual, so generalizations often fail. For instance, there are incredibly "weak" men and incredibly "strong" women. No individual characteristic (apart from function in terms of sexual procreation) should be used to classify either gender.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

That is what I don't get. Even if a woman is stronger than the man, the man is still expected to not react because she is a female.

[Greyclouds]

That is what I don't get. Even if a woman is stronger than the man, the man is still expected to not react because she is a female.

Welcome to Western European culture!

Cultural norms rarely make sense, but are often ingrained in people in their early childhood. Having said that, hurting women is not something that we look kindly upon in our culture.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women?

Woman are equal under the law, and as such, should anticipate the same treatment under that law. Physically, woman are a completely different species from men. Your trying to compare cats and dogs...Yes, they are both domesticated animal...both make great pets...but they are not the same animal. :whistle:

This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

Not all women are created equal. I think about the woman in Boondock Saints....now that was a woman who could hold her own with a man in a fist fight. However, not all woman are built like that are they? Not all men are big tough fist throwing morons either. So what's your point? A woman slaps you and you want to be able to belt her a good one to show her whose boss? Hmmmm.... wouldn't the equal reaction be to slap her back under your definition of equal? Equal response and all that? :rolleyes: Any man who feels the need to strike a woman in order to prove what a man he is...is way beyond help in my eyes. Similarly, any woman who thinks she gets a free pass and can hit a man without consequences, is just stupid. Adults don't 'hit' one another in order to silence or settle an argument...but hey, that's just me.

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?

Is not a man treated within a certain decorum by the woman he dates or has a relationship with? Does not that man expect a certain type of treatment just because he is a man? Is not the same said of most women today when looking for a partner? Is that not equal?

Adults who 'care', 'love' and 'respect' one another, share in the equal but different and separate responsibilities within that relationship. Equality is subjective depending on the couple.

Take this premise of equal into the work environment...and you have an entirely new topic. ;)

~Mysty

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Having said that, hurting women is not something that we look kindly upon in our culture.

True, and feminist in our culture also say that women are equal to men or at least on the same par as men. So if that is the case then why should hitting a woman be looked as anymore different than hitting a man? If you say because that the women are smaller then doesn't that go back to saying that "women are the weaker sex"?

[USAF Medic]

The Lord of the Bible tells men to honor woman as the weaker vessel.
Personally I am glad for the differences.
Woman have gifts that men do not posses and men have gifts that woman do not posses.
They are meant to compliment each other, not be a source of jealosy or division or ascribe better or worse status.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Mystic beauty:

Like I said before, even if a woman who is big and strong beats up a man. If that man then defends himself and then beats her up, he will always be the guilty party and should be the who should show restraint because she is a female and her physical abilities don't count, instead his physical abilities do count?

[bella-day]

True, and feminist in our culture also say that women are equal to men or at least on the same par as men. So if that is the case then why should hitting a woman be looked as anymore different than hitting a man? If you say because that the women are smaller then doesn't that go back to saying that "women are the weaker sex"?


So your definition of equal is based on how well someone can take a punch?

Deep...really deep.

Nobody can "provoke" another person to physically attack them. Not with words anyway.

Using violence to defend yourself against a physical attack is one thing but to pretend that someone can make you hit them because they said something you disapprove...is the kind of reasoning a child employs.

Adults should be above it.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

True, and feminist in our culture also say that women are equal to men or at least on the same par as men. So if that is the case then why should hitting a woman be looked as anymore different than hitting a man? If you say because that the women are smaller then doesn't that go back to saying that "women are the weaker sex"?

There are alot of 'what if's' running through my head. I'm trying to wrap my head around what your point is and what your trying to get at here.

If a woman starts a physical fight with a man; as in throwing the first punch...or responding with a punch after a man has hit her....that is a whole separate kettle of fish then a man over powering a woman who does not fight or does not want to fight.

Tina took allot of punches from Ike...it's called abuse. Are you suggesting that in some of those beatings that she brought that beating upon herself? Or are you making the statment that it's ok to beat a woman as some feminist state women and men are equal in the eyes of the law? Either way, your thinking is convoluted and off hillter kilter in it's thinking. Why is your theory convoluted? Not all women in the world are feminist...and not all men are knuckle dragging morons who think being a man is being able to hit a woman. :snooty:

~Mysty

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

No, not at all. STill as a female I am not going to challenge a man to a fight, because I am a female.

[bella-day]

The OP picked the perfect screen name.

:))

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

You bet Tina was abused, but she was an abused person. If anyone is repeatedly hit they are the abused. What I am getting at is if women are equal to men, why is the fact that the abused is a female makes such a difference. Abuse is abuse.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

In my opinion, the only reason why male/female abuse is such a stigma is because that "women are the weaker sex". If not than, wouldn't it be considered just abuse and not have the social shock that it carres.

Do you say "people are not suppose to hit other people" or do you say "men are not suppose to hit women" when it comes to male/female violence?

[bella-day]

You bet Tina was abused, but she was an abused person. If anyone is repeatedly hit they are the abused. What I am getting at is if women are equal to men, why is the fact that the abused is a female makes such a difference. Abuse is abuse.


The laws to which you seem to be referring to are called domestic violence laws.

These laws do not forbid violence against women...they forbid violence between domestic partners.

As a female, I have no more right to beat up on my husband than he has to beat me up.

Thank God this isn't an issue in my relationship.

I would not want the laws to be abolished simply because domestic abuse is something that should never be tolerated whether the victim is male or female.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

No, not at all. STill as a female I am not going to challenge a man to a fight, because I am a female.

I've heard few if any stories over my 40+ years on this planet where a woman willingly challenged a man to a fist fight.:rolleyes: I have heard over and over how many times men have beaten the holy bejesus outta some woman for whatever reason; drunk, small ego issues, drugs, just cuz he could. It's an old story...one as old as time itself.

Late 70's, our nation began to hear of stories of women who did fight back. Remember the story of the burning bed? Stories of waiting until the man is asleep and beating him near death with a baseball bat or heavy cast iron frying pan? Poisonings? Out right abandonment? We've all heard the stories of women who react in their own way...one that is not a direct bar room brawl of one on one kuffs fighting.

The only scenerio I can imagine taking on a man physically...is in protecting my children from harm. Then and only then would I even consider taking on any man physically...and it would be to the death...his or mine. Most assuredly I'd look worse for the wear...but he would be dead as a door nail by the time I was done with him! :twisted:

Personally, as a woman, any man lays hand one on me in violence...I don't give him a second chance to do it again. In no way is that scenerio ever acceptable to me.

~Mysty

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Bella day,

Now the laws are changing, but in the past if a fight occurs in a relationship it is the man who must leave or go to jail, despite who is the agressor.

Even still, socially this has not changed.

[Ex_Spy_Guy]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women? This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?


My wife could whoop my ass and she gets +5 on any Gummint exam simply for having a vagina.


Neither is fair.

[spearmaster]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women? This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?

Men and women are equal on the social level however men are naturally physically different than women. Men shouldn't be beating on women, period.

[spearmaster]

Woman are equal under the law, and as such, should anticipate the same treatment under that law. Physically, woman are a completely different species from men. Your trying to compare cats and dogs...Yes, they are both domesticated animal...both make great pets...but they are not the same animal. :whistle:



Not all women are created equal. I think about the woman in Boondock Saints....now that was a woman who could hold her own with a man in a fist fight. However, not all woman are built like that are they? Not all men are big tough fist throwing morons either. So what's your point? A woman slaps you and you want to be able to belt her a good one to show her whose boss? Hmmmm.... wouldn't the equal reaction be to slap her back under your definition of equal? Equal response and all that? :rolleyes: Any man who feels the need to strike a woman in order to prove what a man he is...is way beyond help in my eyes. Similarly, any woman who thinks she gets a free pass and can hit a man without consequences, is just stupid. Adults don't 'hit' one another in order to silence or settle an argument...but hey, that's just me.



Is not a man treated within a certain decorum by the woman he dates or has a relationship with? Does not that man expect a certain type of treatment just because he is a man? Is not the same said of most women today when looking for a partner? Is that not equal?

Adults who 'care', 'love' and 'respect' one another, share in the equal but different and separate responsibilities within that relationship. Equality is subjective depending on the couple.

Take this premise of equal into the work environment...and you have an entirely new topic. ;)

~Mysty

Now that was one bad ass woman! :eek:

Great flick.

[bella-day]

Bella day,

Now the laws are changing, but in the past if a fight occurs in a relationship it is the man who must leave or go to jail, despite who is the agressor.

Even still, socially this has not changed.


So your gripe is not with the laws as they are written but how they are enforced?

Riddle me this...

What is the male to female ratio in the law enforcement community?

What is the male to female ratio when we start discussing judges?

Personally, I believe that female on male domestic violence is probably one of the most under reported crimes. It isn't because the women would not allow the man to report the crime...it is because he chooses not to report it...more than likely because of the shame he feels reporting the crime would bring him.

If the crime is not reported it can not be prosecuted.

It's just that simple.

So...what is your solution?

Scream about feminist maybe? Do you know what the definition of that word is?

feminist- one who believes in the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

So...is it your contention that men and women are should not be politically, economically, and socially equal?

[Marleysdaddy]

Is the title of this thread internally contradictory?

[neoINDIE]

That is what I don't get. Even if a woman is stronger than the man, the man is still expected to not react because she is a female.

Expected by who?

I am 5'10" 205 lbs.

If a female that is 5'3" 105 lbs is attacking me, I handle that one way.

If a female that is 6'3" 250 lbs is attacking me, the gloves are off.


You are trying to take a complex issue and make it black and white. Life is mostly grey, my friend.

[neoINDIE]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women? This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?

Did you get your ass kicked by a chick recently?

Just sayin...

[Samm]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women? This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?

Equality between men and women depends on in which arena they compete. I'll tell you one thing for certain... if men gave birth instead of women there would be an awful lot of "no" and "one" child families. ;)

[BasicGreatGuy]

Did you get your ass kicked by a chick recently?

Just sayin...

:))

[Gabby]

In my opinion, the only reason why male/female abuse is such a stigma is because that "women are the weaker sex". If not than, wouldn't it be considered just abuse and not have the social shock that it carres.

Do you say "people are not suppose to hit other people" or do you say "men are not suppose to hit women" when it comes to male/female violence?

You seem to be missing a very important social issue here. For centuries, basically since the dawn of time, it was legal for a man to beat his wife. Women were little more than possessions for a very long time. In some countries today it is still legal for a man to beat his wife and is even expect so that he ‘keep her in line’. There used to be laws on the books even in the USA that allowed it. For example in New Mexico the law used to state that a man could beat his wife once a week to keep her humble and subservient.

There are a few reasons that male physical abuse of women gets extra attention. 1) As a society we are trying to break old social norms from days gone by that gave men the legal right to beat wives. 2) Most domestic violence acts are perpetrated by men against women… so it’s a huge problem. 3) Pound for pound, a man is many times stronger than a woman. So, it puts women at a physical disadvantage.

In our society we do not assume that strength is might and hence the more physically strong have more rights than the physically less strong. The basis of rights is that a person is simply a person. Every human in our society has the same legal rights despite their physical strength.

There are cases of women physically abusing men in a relationship. Those are just as wrong as the cases of male on female abuse. The female on male abuse is relatively rare. Our society does not provide enough support as of yet for the female on male abuses … most likely because it has never been the social norm that women can beat their husbands. I’ve yet to see a law from any time in history that allows this.

What is a shocker is that there are still people who believe that a man has the right to beat his wife/partner.

[FidelisAdMortem]

In most cases men are stronger physically than women.

Which is why in physical driven industries the level in which needs to be reached for a male is higher than that of a female.

Law enforcement is a big example of this.

[gdoane]

Apes are stronger than men too, so does that then mean that Mankind is weaker than beasts? Probably not.

Guns make a pretty good equalizer. I don't care how strong you are, trying to beat up somebody with a .357 Magnum pointed at you is probably going to be less than completely successful as a plan.

[stoked]

If women are equal to men shouldn't they be treated and/or judged equally, with no special treatment because they are women? This is what I don't get, if a woman wants to provoke a man to a fight, should he not do it because she is a woman or not do it because she is smaller than him? Does the same apply if the provoker is a man who is smaller than him? What if the female who is the provoker is the same weight as the man?

So how can a female say that she is equal to a man, then at the same time say that she should be treated uniquely and with care, because she is a woman?

Are you looking for an excuse to do something nasty? :))

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Whoa, heck yeah a bullet is an equalizer. Now that is violent

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Did I get my arse kicked? Nope, no need to fight in my opinion.

[gdoane]

Whoa, heck yeah a bullet is an equalizer. Now that is violent

Every gun range I've ever shot at was full of manners and pleasant people. Maybe because half the people in the place were cops and everybody has guns, but nobody was violent or even rude.

Aren't the most violent places in America the same ones with the most restrictive gun laws? Thugs and villains do prefer unarmed victims.

[rhet 2]

Apes are stronger than men too, so does that then mean that Mankind is weaker than beasts? Probably not.

Guns make a pretty good equalizer. I don't care how strong you are, trying to beat up somebody with a .357 Magnum pointed at you is probably going to be less than completely successful as a plan.

A whack over the head with a cast iron skillet and a BUTCHER KNIFE for chopping DEAD MEAT in the kitchen are nifty equalizers, too.

And never forget who does 90% of American laundry -- with access to nifty neato fiberglass insulation materials.

Women are NOT the same as men -- different thinking processes, different values, different natural proclivities.

Our natural biological role is to breed and raise kids -- NESTING -- not going out to conquer new territorities controlled by others.

Different -- NOT the same as weaker.

Especially when the offspring and NEST are threatened.

Studies by some linguists of women's speech patterns, for example, show a strong social unity focus, but with a more subtle and actually a more pragmatically violent undertone centered less on conquest through one-on-one challenge patterns among males than it is on group-to-group strength through unified and coordinated defense-centered aggression.

And anyone who's ever studied the history of classical Rome and the Middle Ages knows that Margarite of Navarre, Eleanor of Acquitaine, Catherine de Medici -- not to mention the wife of Augustus Caesar, Livia -- were NOT weak little victims to play games with. Some of the most brutal, strong political leaders in world history have been females defending their own "nests." And anyone want to question the Will to Win at any cost of a Pelosi or a Hilliary Clinton? -- a Will to Win that focuses on GROUP victory as much or more than it does on individual power? MY GROUP vs. the male's ME victory at any cost.

[Greyclouds]

Every gun range I've ever shot at was full of manners and pleasant people. Maybe because half the people in the place were cops and everybody has guns, but nobody was violent or even rude.

Aren't the most violent places in America the same ones with the most restrictive gun laws? Thugs and villains do prefer unarmed victims.

I have been to gun ranges and I can confirm your first assertion, but I'm going to have to look over your data to even entertain your second point.

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

A whack over the head with a cast iron skillet and a BUTCHER KNIFE for chopping DEAD MEAT in the kitchen are nifty equalizers, too.

And never forget who does 90% of American laundry -- with access to nifty neato fiberglass insulation materials.

Women are NOT the same as men -- different thinking processes, different values, different natural proclivities.

Our natural biological role is to breed and raise kids -- NESTING -- not going out to conquer new territorities controlled by others.

Different -- NOT the same as weaker.

Especially when the offspring and NEST are threatened.

Studies by some linguists of women's speech patterns, for example, show a strong social unity focus, but with a more subtle and actually a more pragmatically violent undertone centered less on conquest through one-on-one challenge patterns among males than it is on group-to-group strength through unified and coordinated defense-centered aggression.

And anyone who's ever studied the history of classical Rome and the Middle Ages knows that Margarite of Navarre, Eleanor of Acquitaine, Catherine de Medici -- not to mention the wife of Augustus Caesar, Livia -- were NOT weak little victims to play games with. Some of the most brutal, strong political leaders in world history have been females defending their own "nests." And anyone want to question the Will to Win at any cost of a Pelosi or a Hilliary Clinton? -- a Will to Win that focuses on GROUP victory as much or more than it does on individual power? MY GROUP vs. the male's ME victory at any cost.

+1 :clap:

Have I told you lately how much I enjoy your posts Rhet? You discribe the issue perfectly...as usual. :mrgreen:

~Mysty

[rhet 2]

+1 :clap:

Have I told you lately how much I enjoy your posts Rhet? You discribe the issue perfectly...as usual. :mrgreen:

~Mysty

You're far too generous in your praise.

But I'm so very glad you're part of the group I am determined to defend at all costs -- no mossbergs, skillets or butcher knives required to reduce your group to insignificance so my group can thrive -- because your group IS my group -- and vice versa.

TOGETHER, our group prospers -- because we Nest Defenders refuse to roll over and be weak little kittens for slaughter at will. :mrgreen:

[mysticbeauty_nbeast]

You're far too generous in your praise.

But I'm so very glad you're part of the group I am determined to defend at all costs -- no mossbergs, skillets or butcher knives required to reduce your group to insignificance so my group can thrive -- because your group IS my group -- and vice versa.

TOGETHER, our group prospers -- because we Nest Defenders refuse to roll over and be weak little kittens for slaughter at will. :mrgreen:

Praise that is indeed warranted and earned my dear. My own brain becomes muddled in just how to post something...to which you so completely cover the issue, I feel relieved. Praise warranted indeed!

Honestly, there isn't much I wouldn't do in order to stave harm from befalling my three beautiful girls. What parent wouldn't? Male or Female?

However, to turn that type of protective actions in order to take something from another, or to simply beat control into another human being...that isn't weak or strong..that's psychopathic in nature; regardless it's male or female source.

This whole topic has made me think of Elizabeth I...far from a mewling kitten by any stretch of the word. In a fist fight...I'm sure she would have held her own...but had the sense to never get into a physical brawl...choosing instead wit and common sense to defeat said threat.

Your correct in that men and woman are not the same creatures. Two wholly different species...like dogs and cats...both make great domesticated pets...but are wholly separate in the type of animal they are. :whistle:

~Mysty