Do you think that atheists, should be identified as atheists more in the media?

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

If a person of faith does something wrong the fact that person is a theist is pointed out in the news report. The persons religious upbringing, their standing in their church, you name it. I can't think of one time where an atheist gets such special treatment. It would be silly to say that atheists never do anything wrong.


If atheists want to have equal representation,they should be represented in everything. That includes the good and the bad.

[BillM50]

I don't think it is necessary to go that far. You don't have to label a banana to know it's a banana. If a news reporter or commentator goes so far as to mention a persons faith in a news report, especially if it is in a negative light, odds are that the reporter is the opposite.

[ogibillm]

If a person of faith does something wrong the fact that person is a theist is pointed out in the news report. The persons religious upbringing, their standing in their church, you name it. I can't think of one time where an atheist gets such special treatment. It would be silly to say that atheists never do anything wrong.


If atheists want to have equal representation,they should be represented in everything. That includes the good and the bad.

i'd have to see an example of what you're talking about first, because frankly i believe that your premise is built on erroneous facts.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

I am not presenting any facts, I am asking a question. Unless you are saying that atheists don't do anything bad or questionable that is news worthy? I know if a theists is.

[ogibillm]

I am not presenting any facts, I am asking a question. Unless you are saying that atheists don't do anything bad or questionable that is news worthy? I know if a theists is.

i'm saying that a person's religion does not come up in a news story about the wrong doings of any person unless it is itself newsworthy.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Then it shouldn't be important or necessary to mention if someone sat in pew 4 every Sunday. It shouldn't be relevant, to the situation. Yet the fact that someone is off faith is mentioned and in my opinion used as a character viewpoint, that can be conveniently shot down.

[ogibillm]

Then it shouldn't be important or necessary to mention if someone sat in pew 4 every Sunday. It shouldn't be relevant, to the situation. Yet the fact that someone is off faith is mentioned and in my opinion used as a character viewpoint, that can be conveniently shot down.

please, offer a news article to demonstrate your assertion that a person's religious leanings and status are always discussed in news articles

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

please, offer a news article to demonstrate your assertion that a person's religious leanings and status are always discussed in news articles

What you mean discussed in details? No, but mentioned and used as a character reference, yes. Are you saying that it doesn't happen?

[ogibillm]

What you mean discussed in details? No, but mentioned and used as a character reference, yes. Are you saying that it doesn't happen?

that is exactly what i am saying.

[Sketch]

I think if the wrongdoing had something to do with the persons disbelief, then it should be mentioned, or if they were known for their atheism, then that might make sense.

I don't know if its any different for theists. I watched the news on friday, and there was not a single mention of god belief in any of the stories - at least that I recall.

I don't think your premise holds water.

[ogibillm]

I think if the wrongdoing had something to do with the persons disbelief, then it should be mentioned, or if they were known for their atheism, then that might make sense.

I don't know if its any different for theists. I watched the news on friday, and there was not a single mention of god belief in any of the stories - at least that I recall.

I don't think your premise holds water.

right. i mean obviously if the person is say Ted Haggard then yeah, it makes sense to mention his faith.

even if it's someone extraordinary like the btk killer they may mention the faith, if for no other reason than to illustrate how normal and ordinary the person appeared to the community.

but your average thief, arsonist, drug dealer, or murderer? you won't see any mention of it.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

right. i mean obviously if the person is say Ted Haggard then yeah, it makes sense to mention his faith.

even if it's someone extraordinary like the btk killer they may mention the faith, if for no other reason than to illustrate how normal and ordinary the person appeared to the community.

but your average thief, arsonist, drug dealer, or murderer? you won't see any mention of it.

Not so, you can say that I am lying, yet I do recall a recent case of a man who was a deacon in his church who got arrested for bank robbery. His family said that they were shocked and it wasn't like him. What family wouldn't be shocked and why does it matter if the person was a member of a church.

Also the sexual molestation issue is a good example too. Sure people of faith commit these crimes, yet it is a epidemic that isn't solely committed by people of faith. Still if a person is a minister the, fact that the person is minister or a leader in a church is mentioned.

I was shocked to see on one of those dateline stings when a Rabbi, got arrested.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

What average theist is known for their beleif on the scale of Haggard
? Not everyone is a Haggard.

[ogibillm]

Not so, you can say that I am lying, yet I do recall a recent case of a man who was a deacon in his church who got arrested for bank robbery. His family said that they were shocked and it wasn't like him. What family wouldn't be shocked and why does it matter if the person was a member of a church.

Also the sexual molestation issue is a good example too. Sure people of faith commit these crimes, yet it is a epidemic that isn't solely committed by people of faith. Still if a person is a minister the, fact that the person is minister or a leader in a church is mentioned.

I was shocked to see on one of those dateline stings when a Rabbi, got arrested.
i'm sorry, but you're just pointing out where the person's faith is mentioned in extraordinary cases, not your average every day criminal.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

WAIT A SECOND!!!!

I noticed that some are trying to divert the point of my question. My question isn't about whether or not a person's faith is mentioned in a news report. You can agree or disagree. My question was this:

"Do you think that atheists, should be identified as atheists more in the media"


If an atheist does something that is news worthy in the media (good or bad), should or shouldn't the fact that the person is an atheist or raised an atheist be mentioned in that news report.

Do you think that a persons theism or theistic upbringing should be mentioned in a news report if that person does something good or bad?

[ogibillm]

WAIT A SECOND!!!!

I noticed that some are trying to divert the point of my question. My question isn't about whether or not a person's faith is mentioned in a news report. You can agree or disagree. My question was this:

"Do you think that atheists, should be identified as atheists more in the media"


If an atheist does something that is news worthy in the media (good or bad), should or shouldn't the fact that the person is an atheist or raised an atheist be mentioned in that news report.

Do you think that a persons theism or theistic upbringing should be mentioned in a news report if that person does something good or bad?

no, it shouldn't be an issue, just as it's not an issue for those of faith.

rarely is there a violation of trust for atheists like there can be for those in positions of authority at relgious institutions.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

Extraordinary case or not (bank robbery is hardly unique), why is the fact that a person is a theist even mentioned at all? Why is that even a tiny bit important?

[troy]

If a person of faith does something wrong the fact that person is a theist is pointed out in the news report. The persons religious upbringing, their standing in their church, you name it. I can't think of one time where an atheist gets such special treatment. It would be silly to say that atheists never do anything wrong.


If atheists want to have equal representation,they should be represented in everything. That includes the good and the bad.
I'm not sure I've noticed that happening on a large scale in the media unless it was relevant to the story such as with extremists and religious zealots who commited a crime that tied in directly with their beliefs.

Not sure how pointing out if someone is an athiest is relevant unless their being an athiest is actually part of the story. Same goes for any other religion. Not to get off topic, but I do notice that the media does like to point out when someone is military or prior military even when the story has no relation to the military.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

"I'm not sure I've noticed that happening on a large scale in the media unless it was relevant to the story such as with extremists and religious zealots who commited a crime that tied in directly with their beliefs."


It is not just when someone is a zealot, it is when an average person does something.

[troy]

It is not just when someone is a zealot, it is when an average person does something.
Then I would have to say I haven't noticed it and its a non issue for me.

[ogibillm]

It is not just when someone is a zealot, it is when an average person does something.

http://columbiatribune.com/news/2009/mar/15/police-pot-operation-intact-as-house-changed-hands/

http://columbiatribune.com/news/2009/mar/14/prosecutor-reduces-charge-in-04-slaying/?news

http://columbiatribune.com/news/2009/mar/14/teen-pleads-homicide-014/?news

http://columbiatribune.com/news/2009/mar/13/two-arrested-in-narcotics-searches/?news

http://columbiatribune.com/news/2009/mar/12/four-meth-labs-discovered/?news

these are just some reports in my local paper about crime...

not one single mention of religion anywhere...

maybe they were all atheists?

[troy]

Not so, you can say that I am lying, yet I do recall a recent case of a man who was a deacon in his church who got arrested for bank robbery. His family said that they were shocked and it wasn't like him. What family wouldn't be shocked and why does it matter if the person was a member of a church.

Also the sexual molestation issue is a good example too. Sure people of faith commit these crimes, yet it is a epidemic that isn't solely committed by people of faith. Still if a person is a minister the, fact that the person is minister or a leader in a church is mentioned.

I was shocked to see on one of those dateline stings when a Rabbi, got arrested.
With regard to sexual molestation, their faith and ties to a church is even more relevant since many pedophiles will work to put themselves in positions of trust. For example by being involved in the church, school and many other circumstances where their postion, regardless of what it was is an enabling factor in their commiting the crime, then it is relevant.

I have to say I see more stories about sexual predators where there is no mention of faith because faith wasn't relevant to the story.

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

http://gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080209/NEWS/416727643/1002/NEWS

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=153484

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/crimewatch/2008/apr/17/crimewatch-17-04-2008-002.htm

http://cbs11tv.com/religion/Terrell.church.shocked.2.754272.html

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-092808-sjf-preacherarrested.bfd01ed0.html

[Stopthinkingsomuch!!!]

One would think that mainly theists mostly chirstians are molesting, and a few teachers. When this is not the case.

[troy]

One would think that mainly theists mostly chirstians are molesting, and a few teachers. When this is not the case.
I'm smart enough to know that isn't the case and I think most people are. I just don't see this as being an issue...even in the MSM as biased as they can be. I can google virtually any subject and come up with enough ammunition to support my view in a particular post and any particular thread.

[ogibillm]

your stories are pretty interesting but they don't exactly back up your premise.
http://gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080209/NEWS/416727643/1002/NEWS
this one is interesting. the kid's parents operate a christian ranch for troubled children. he worked there. before that he volunteered at another christian home for troubled kids.
then he goes and beats an elderly man to death. this falls under my 'btk killer' category.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=153484
a christian news outlet writing a story about *gasp* christians... we'll just leave that alone.

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/crimewatch/2008/apr/17/crimewatch-17-04-2008-002.htm
not about religion. about men pretending to be pastors to rob churches. the religion of the men is not mentioned.

http://cbs11tv.com/religion/Terrell.church.shocked.2.754272.html
an elderly woman in the church is beaten and sent to the hospital. the next day a member of the same church is arrested for child molestation... and low and behold someone sees fit to cover the reactions of the church. this really has nothing to do with religion, you'd see the same article about the neighbors if the two happened to live in the same subdivision.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-092808-sjf-preacherarrested.bfd01ed0.html
this last one, about a preacher arrested for sex crimes, falls under the 'ted haggard' category.

[Sketch]

There was little or no mention that Pat Tillman was an atheist, at least not until some dolt in the military made an incredibly insensitive comment about his family's non-belief.

As to the question in the OP, I would like to see more prominent members of society say that they are atheists if they are. I know quite a few have, but atheism doesn't carry the same sense of "group membership that belonging to a religion does. I think it would be a good thing to remove the stigma some people associate with not believing.

I also think more people would call themselves atheist or agnostic at the very least, if they just sat and thought for a while about what they believe - and ask "what is god really?" It's been my experience that most people don't really believe in the scriptural gods and defer to a much more nebulous definition of the gods, at which point I'll ask "why call that god?"

[BillyBobUSA]

If a person of faith does something wrong the fact that person is a theist is pointed out in the news report. The persons religious upbringing, their standing in their church, you name it. I can't think of one time where an atheist gets such special treatment. It would be silly to say that atheists never do anything wrong.


If atheists want to have equal representation,they should be represented in everything. That includes the good and the bad.


If atheists want to hide in shame, who can blame them?

[Scop274]

Not so, you can say that I am lying, yet I do recall a recent case of a man who was a deacon in his church who got arrested for bank robbery. His family said that they were shocked and it wasn't like him. What family wouldn't be shocked and why does it matter if the person was a member of a church.

It was mentioned that the man was a deacon in his church cause that's actually a position that they guy held. If they were to mention that the guy were a Christian even though he held no real position in a church then you might have a point.

If an atheist were to commit a crime and they were the head of the american atheist organization then it would be mentioned, but just that this person doesn't believe in God isn't pertinent information and doesn't really need to be pointed out.

Also, Christians go through alot of trouble to be equated with great morality so it's that much more juicy when a priest or deacon screws up and goes on a rampage or gets caught sleeping with a male hooker or something like that. It's like the head of PETA being caught beating animals.

[Antrel]

Theism doesn't matter. Atheism shouldn't either.

[Mobulis]

WAIT A SECOND!!!!

I noticed that some are trying to divert the point of my question. My question isn't about whether or not a person's faith is mentioned in a news report. You can agree or disagree. My question was this:

"Do you think that atheists, should be identified as atheists more in the media"


If an atheist does something that is news worthy in the media (good or bad), should or shouldn't the fact that the person is an atheist or raised an atheist be mentioned in that news report.

Do you think that a persons theism or theistic upbringing should be mentioned in a news report if that person does something good or bad?

Only if atheism has something to do with the act.

[graatz]

even if it's someone extraordinary like the btk killer they may mention the faith, if for no other reason than to illustrate how normal and ordinary the person appeared to the community.

Perhaps they don't point out the atheism of criminals because Joe Sixpack wouldn't find it newsworthy that a godless heathen committed a crime? :eh: Maybe it would be better if newscasters mentioned someone being an active atheist in the community in the same way that they say that someone attended church services every Sunday: "He seemed like anyone else, the Treasurer of the local nonbelievers organization, donated to charity, built homes for the homeless... who would have thought a fine upstanding citizen like this was actually killing people in his backyard for sport?"

:( I suppose it just doesn't work either way. By not bringing up the atheism of a media-darling criminal, the implication can be seen as well of course an atheist committed a crime, they don't have God to guide them. Why even bother to mention something so obvious? But if they spotlight the atheism, instead of seeing it as a seemingly normal person actually being a psycho, it will just confirm the viewer's suspicions that atheists are not to be trusted. :sigh:

[badkarma]

If a man known for his militant atheism were to get caught trying to burn down a church or shoot a priest, his atheism would be part of the story. if that same man got caught robbing a 7-11, his atheism would probably not be part of the story.

if a ranking member or the priest of a church that claims to hold the moral high ground on every issue and defines itself as such is caught molesting children, then being a member of the moral high ground brigade would be part of that story. if the same person was an atheist and got caught molesting children, his lack of faith would not be part of the story because it is not relevant.

Now I have a question. Why are so many people in our society actively looking for how they are oppressed and victimized?

[Marleysdaddy]

If a person of faith does something wrong the fact that person is a theist is pointed out in the news report. The persons religious upbringing, their standing in their church, you name it. I can't think of one time where an atheist gets such special treatment. It would be silly to say that atheists never do anything wrong.


If atheists want to have equal representation,they should be represented in everything. That includes the good and the bad.

Your username is terrifying :eek:

[noose4]

If a person of faith does something wrong the fact that person is a theist is pointed out in the news report. The persons religious upbringing, their standing in their church, you name it. I can't think of one time where an atheist gets such special treatment. It would be silly to say that atheists never do anything wrong.


If atheists want to have equal representation,they should be represented in everything. That includes the good and the bad.

the majority of people who are arrested are religious just by the fact that the majority of the people in the nation are religious. not all criminals who are arrested have their religion brought up when the crime is reported, but if the criminal is a preacher or a person that has held themselves up as an example of a religious person then that persons religion is something that should be brought up when they commit a crime.

[noose4]

Not so, you can say that I am lying, yet I do recall a recent case of a man who was a deacon in his church who got arrested for bank robbery. His family said that they were shocked and it wasn't like him. What family wouldn't be shocked and why does it matter if the person was a member of a church.

Also the sexual molestation issue is a good example too. Sure people of faith commit these crimes, yet it is a epidemic that isn't solely committed by people of faith. Still if a person is a minister the, fact that the person is minister or a leader in a church is mentioned.

I was shocked to see on one of those dateline stings when a Rabbi, got arrested.


the thing being is a deacon is not an ordinary member of the church, it is an honored position.

[Marleysdaddy]

Not so, you can say that I am lying, yet I do recall a recent case of a man who was a deacon in his church who got arrested for bank robbery. His family said that they were shocked and it wasn't like him. What family wouldn't be shocked and why does it matter if the person was a member of a church.
It doesn't matter that the deacon was a member of a church - it matters that he had an honored position within the church.

Also the sexual molestation issue is a good example too. Sure people of faith commit these crimes, yet it is a epidemic that isn't solely committed by people of faith. Still if a person is a minister the, fact that the person is minister or a leader in a church is mentioned.
Of course it's mentioned, because being a minister or a leader in a church ought to result in NOT molesting children...

do you really not see the difference between some random church attendee committing a crime vs. a church leader committing a crime?

[Marleysdaddy]

the thing being is a deacon is not an ordinary member of the church, it is an honored position.

didn't mean to step on your toes :eek: