It's just some rumblings I'm getting, just a funny smell, but...

[Lord of Mirrors]

This T.O. thing. Dallas cuts him, and Buffalo scoops him right up for little to nothing, immediately, on a one-year deal.

Jerry Jones is just going to cut T.O. and get nothing for him? So it appears..... BUT.

I don't buy it. Here's what I think is going to happen:

I think there's a back-door deal for Buffalo to do a "sweetheart" trade with Dallas on or before draft day, for a herd of additional players in exchange for Buffalo's #1 pick! Dallas doesn't HAVE a pick in the first round this year, and needs one. Well, no way could Buffalo afford T.O. unless he was cut. Wade Phillips is still tight with Bills ownership... Dallas has several players who are ripe trade bait...

Dallas is stalling on negotiations with several players.....

Sure would like to see Jerry Jones phone records! But hell, he might use the internet, emails for something like this.

Anyhow let's wait and see. It sure looks possible.

[dannyg79]

TO had no trade value what so ever, and Buffalo is not going to make a "sweetheart deal" to benefit Dallas because they signed TO to a 1 year deal.

[Lord of Mirrors]

TO had no trade value what so ever, and Buffalo is not going to make a "sweetheart deal" to benefit Dallas because they signed TO to a 1 year deal.
Buffalo couldn't have afforded T.O. unless he was cut. The passel of players involved might be quite attractive to Buffalo. This might be the equivalent of the Hershel Walker deal, except Buffalo gives up a 1st round pick for T.O. backdoored, and a half dozen or so proven players. They can't afford to really sign a high 1st rounder this year anyway, get T.O. cheap, and get a much needed infusion of talent.

We shall see.

[dannyg79]

Buffalo couldn't have afforded T.O. unless he was cut. The passel of players involved might be quite attractive to Buffalo. This might be the equivalent of the Hershel Walker deal, except Buffalo gives up a 1st round pick for T.O. backdoored, and a half dozen or so proven players. They can't afford to really sign a high 1st rounder this year anyway, get T.O. cheap, and get a much needed infusion of talent.

We shall see.

Players being traded work out contracts with their new team before the trade all of the time. Not to mention, TO visited Tennessee before Buffalo, and likely would have signed there had Tennessee given him a better offer. The fact of the matter is, is that TO is on the downside of his career and obviously has a history of being a trouble maker in the locker room. There was not a team interested in him, unless they could get him on a moderately priced one year deal. There is no way Buffalo is going to simply make a move to benefit Dallas, because they signed TO.

Not to mention, who exactly on Dallas do you think Buffalo would be really interested in? They arent trading Whitten, Ware, Ratliffe, or anyone of that nature.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Players being traded work out contracts with their new team before the trade all of the time. Not to mention, TO visited Tennessee before Buffalo, and likely would have signed there had Tennessee given him a better offer. The fact of the matter is, is that TO is on the downside of his career and obviously has a history of being a trouble maker in the locker room. There was not a team interested in him, unless they could get him on a moderately priced one year deal. There is no way Buffalo is going to simply make a move to benefit Dallas, because they signed TO.

Not to mention, who exactly on Dallas do you think Buffalo would be really interested in? They arent trading Whitten, Ware, Ratliffe, or anyone of that nature.Watch.

Of course T.O. wasn't trade-able. But he WAS back-doorable. And Buffalo's not doing this to benefit Dallas, they are doing it to get that Lombardi that they, myself and alot of other folks out there think they're pretty close to being able to do.

And it's not star players who might be going, it's depth players. And maybe even one disgruntled linebacker we all know who's at the end of his storied career as well!

[dannyg79]

Watch.

Of course T.O. wasn't trade-able. But he WAS back-doorable. And Buffalo's not doing this to benefit Dallas, they are doing it to get that Lombardi that they, myself and alot of other folks out there think they're pretty close to being able to do.

And it's not star players who might be going, it's depth players. And maybe even one disgruntled linebacker we all know who's at the end of his storied career as well!

Nobody gives up a first round pick for depth players. It would make absolutely no sense for Buffalo to give up a 1st round pick for a LB at the end of his career, when they can just use that pick to draft one and have his services for the next 7 years.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Nobody gives up a first round pick for depth players. It would make absolutely no sense for Buffalo to give up a 1st round pick for a LB at the end of his career, when they can just use that pick to draft one and have his services for the next 7 years.They are up against cap trouble. They really cannot afford a high first-rounder this year. And it's likely the player they have an eye on is in a later round.

They get:

*T.O. backdoored and cheap. Great for ticket and merchandise sales.
These alone will probably cover his salary. And who knows, he might have another 30-TD, 1,000 yard season before he implodes.

* Tank Johnson, Zach Thomas, plus a half dozen or so reliable, young but not starting players. They'll all be cheap compared to signing one, early 1st round pick.

*And maybe a later round pick or two.

I think it's plausible, although not strongly likely. Speculation is fun. But look at past years, all those Dallas players who went to New Orleans.... Then all the ones who went to Miami... all in sweetheart little trades...

[dannyg79]

They are up against cap trouble. They really cannot afford a high first-rounder this year. And it's likely the player they have an eye on is in a later round.

They get:

*T.O. backdoored and cheap. Great for ticket and merchandise sales.
These alone will probably cover his salary. And who knows, he might have another 30-TD, 1,000 yard season before he implodes.

* Tank Johnson, Zach Thomas, plus a half dozen or so reliable, young but not starting players. They'll all be cheap compared to signing one, early 1st round pick.

*And maybe a later round pick or two.

I think it's plausible, although not strongly likely. Speculation is fun. But look at past years, all those Dallas players who went to New Orleans.... Then all the ones who went to Miami... all in sweetheart little trades...

Tank Johnson was already cut. Plus, if they dont want the pick because they dont want to pay the first round salary, why wouldnt they just trade for a bunch of middle round picks, instead of taking on contracts of veteran players?

And again, the reason TO was cheap, is because nobody else wanted him. The only other team that I heard even made him an offer was Tennessee, and their offer was apparently less than Buffalo's. He is cheap for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with sweetheart deals.

ETA: Actually, I dont think Johnson has been cut, I was thinking Pac Man. But regardless, Tank and Zach Thomas are not going to be traded for a first round pick.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Tank Johnson was already cut. Plus, if they dont want the pick because they dont want to pay the first round salary, why wouldnt they just trade for a bunch of middle round picks, instead of taking on contracts of veteran players?

And again, the reason TO was cheap, is because nobody else wanted him. The only other team that I heard even made him an offer was Tennessee, and their offer was apparently less than Buffalo's. He is cheap for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with sweetheart deals.

ETA: Actually, I dont think Johnson has been cut, I was thinking Pac Man. But regardless, Tank and Zach Thomas are not going to be traded for a first round pick.He's cheap because he was cut instead of being traded.

Look at the other side of the pancake too. Jerry Jones really going to throw away 4 million in cap money, just to get rid of Owens, when he could have kept him another year (even inactivated) and saved three of it?

Jones is really gonna tolerate NOT having a pick in the first round?

We haven't already seen sweetie trades with Nawlins when a Dallas coach and some staffers went there, and with Miami when Parcells went there?

Buffalo is really gonna look the ticket sales and merchandise sales gift horse in the mouth, and not salivate at the possibility of a 1000-yard, 30-TD season out of Owens?

I smell ripe tomatoes.

[dannyg79]

He's cheap because he was cut instead of being traded.

Look at the other side of the pancake too. Jerry Jones really going to throw away 4 million in cap money, just to get rid of Owens, when he could have kept him another year (even inactivated) and saved three of it?

Jones is really gonna tolerate NOT having a pick in the first round?

We haven't already seen sweetie trades with Nawlins when a Dallas coach and some staffers went there, and with Miami when Parcells went there?

Buffalo is really gonna look the ticket sales and merchandise sales gift horse in the mouth, and not salivate at the possibility of a 1000-yard, 30-TD season out of Owens?

I smell ripe tomatoes.

Well if they are expecting 30 TDs out of Owens then no telling what they will do.

And again, if Dallas thought they could have traded him they would have. It is commonplace for players on the trading block to work out deals with a team before the trade, so that team can afford them. He was cut because he was untradeable.

Plus, what you call "sweetheart deals" for Dallas, havent really seemed to work in Dallas favor lately. Especially Miami who goes from 1-15 to 11-5 over the course of one season, where Dallas goes from 13-3 to not being in the playoffs. How you figure anything involving Dallas/Miami/Parcells was a "sweetheart deal" benefiting Dallas, is simply not accurate.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Well if they are expecting 30 TDs out of Owens then no telling what they will do.

And again, if Dallas thought they could have traded him they would have. It is commonplace for players on the trading block to work out deals with a team before the trade, so that team can afford them. He was cut because he was untradeable.Cutting him avoids all trade drama both for Dallas and the other team.

Jones never has been one to play anything safe. He's a riverboat gambler. But there's just no way I can believe he's taking a $4 million cap hit he didn't have to. There's something in the water.

[dannyg79]

Cutting him avoids all trade drama both for Dallas and the other team.

Jones never has been one to play anything safe. He's a riverboat gambler. But there's just no way I can believe he's taking a $4 million cap hit he didn't have to. There's something in the water.

I think Jones is finally realizing his method of general managing doesnt work. I think he is actually being smart for the first time in a while.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Tank Johnson was already cut.
I think that was Brad.... Johnson. Tank's still on the roster at Dallas' website.

[PeterGriffin]

It's just some rumblings I'm getting, just a funny smell, but...

I can't believe you guys are just letting this sit there like that. Gettin' soft.

[dannyg79]

I think that was Brad.... Johnson. Tank's still on the roster at Dallas' website.

Yeah your right, I was actually think Pac Man.

[Lord of Mirrors]

I think Jones is finally realizing his method of general managing doesnt work. I think he is actually being smart for the first time in a while.The dude buys a tired, mismanaged NFL franchise for $140 million and in 20 years it has three more Lombardi's and is the world's most valuable sports franchise, worth over 1000 times what he paid for it. Show me another sports GM who can touch that. I'm not a Jones fan by any stretch, but you gotta be fair and give him his props.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Yeah your right, I was actually think Pac Man.Yeah, Tank is a unrestricted free agent with no offers yet that we know of.

[dannyg79]

The dude buys a tired, mismanaged NFL franchise for $140 million and in 20 years it has three more Lombardi's and is the world's most valuable sports franchise, worth over 100 times what he paid for it. Show me another sports GM who can touch that. I'm not a Jones fan by any stretch, but you gotta be fair and give him his props.

From a business aspect his is great. But being a good business man and a good general manager are not one in the same. The reality is, is that they havent won a playoff game in over a decade.

[Lord of Mirrors]

From a business aspect his is great. But being a good business man and a good general manager are not one in the same. The reality is, is that they havent won a playoff game in over a decade.That's true. But that's also true of alot of other teams.

[dannyg79]

That's true. But that's also true of alot of other teams.

Sure it is. But unlike some owners, I think Jones actually really cares about winning, where as some owners only look at it from a business perspective.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Sure it is. But unlike some owners, I think Jones actually really cares about winning, where as some owners only look at it from a business perspective.I agree... I think it's killing Jones inside, just eating him up, that his team has been basically floundering for the last thirteen years.

[dannyg79]

I agree... I think it's killing Jones inside, just eating him up, that his team has been basically floundering for the last thirteen years.

Dallas isnt that far away from winning a SB. They have Roy Williams now, who is probably better than TO at this stage in his career. With TO already causing issues last season, there was simply no way they could go another year with him on the roster, when he would likely be the third option in the passing game. He would tear that locker room apart.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Dallas isnt that far away from winning a SB. They have Roy Williams now, who is probably better than TO at this stage in his career. With TO already causing issues last season, there was simply no way they could go another year with him on the roster, when he would likely be the third option in the passing game. He would tear that locker room apart.I just don't have the sense that they're all that good, certainly not really any better than any other 7-9 to 9-7 team out there.

Maybe the new attitude in the locker room, the new stadium, and some good moves in the draft will boost 'em. They've already made a couple of decent acquisitions this off-season. Staying away from the injury bug is always helpful too.

[dannyg79]

I just don't have the sense that they're all that good, certainly not really any better than any other 7-9 to 9-7 team out there.

Maybe the new attitude in the locker room, the new stadium, and some good moves in the draft will boost 'em. They've already made a couple of decent acquisitions this off-season. Staying away from the injury bug is always helpful too.

They arent that much better at this point, but honestly, the Cardinals made the SB and I dont think they were much, if any better than the Cowboys. They have a lot of good pieces in place, they just need to add a bit more.

[Lord of Mirrors]

I can't believe you guys are just letting this sit there like that. Gettin' soft.The title IS done on purpose, there's a riddle there. It's crafted to where it takes some candlepower to decipher. I wouldn't expect you to have any luck with it, but I knew you would be right along to say something.:D

[Lord of Mirrors]

Plus, what you call "sweetheart deals" for Dallas, havent really seemed to work in Dallas favor lately. Especially Miami who goes from 1-15 to 11-5 over the course of one season, where Dallas goes from 13-3 to not being in the playoffs. How you figure anything involving Dallas/Miami/Parcells was a "sweetheart deal" benefiting Dallas, is simply not accurate.I missed this before. Dallas got the picks, Miami got the players, none of which was a star. Dallas lost four more games last year than the year before, but most of that can be attributed to their massive injury body count. Plus the fact that Miami wasn't a completely hapless 1-15, they were competitive in almost every game that year. They were better than their record. And I think they snuck up on alot of folks last year, 1-15 tends to make other teams sort of take you lightly. They won't have that element this season.

[Z_only1]

This T.O. thing. Dallas cuts him, and Buffalo scoops him right up for little to nothing, immediately, on a one-year deal.

Jerry Jones is just going to cut T.O. and get nothing for him? So it appears..... BUT.

I don't buy it. Here's what I think is going to happen:

I think there's a back-door deal for Buffalo to do a "sweetheart" trade with Dallas on or before draft day, for a herd of additional players in exchange for Buffalo's #1 pick! Dallas doesn't HAVE a pick in the first round this year, and needs one. Well, no way could Buffalo afford T.O. unless he was cut. Wade Phillips is still tight with Bills ownership... Dallas has several players who are ripe trade bait...

Dallas is stalling on negotiations with several players.....

Sure would like to see Jerry Jones phone records! But hell, he might use the internet, emails for something like this.

Anyhow let's wait and see. It sure looks possible.

Is this jimmie johnson and hershel walker version 2 trade blockbuster?

As far as TO, who cares anymore. The drama is/has worn out.

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

Here's something related to the "great" T.O. Pretty funny.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1903842

[Dr. Funkenstein]

This T.O. thing. Dallas cuts him, and Buffalo scoops him right up for little to nothing, immediately, on a one-year deal.

Jerry Jones is just going to cut T.O. and get nothing for him? So it appears..... BUT.

I don't buy it. Here's what I think is going to happen:

I think there's a back-door deal for Buffalo to do a "sweetheart" trade with Dallas on or before draft day, for a herd of additional players in exchange for Buffalo's #1 pick! Dallas doesn't HAVE a pick in the first round this year, and needs one. Well, no way could Buffalo afford T.O. unless he was cut. Wade Phillips is still tight with Bills ownership... Dallas has several players who are ripe trade bait...

Dallas is stalling on negotiations with several players.....

Sure would like to see Jerry Jones phone records! But hell, he might use the internet, emails for something like this.

Anyhow let's wait and see. It sure looks possible.

This is for you...

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/tinfoil+hat.jpg

Considering the contract they signed Williams to, and the number that Owens had attached to him, there was NO TRADE MARKET for Owens. Dallas needed to get rid of him for both team purposes AND money purposes.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Considering the contract they signed Williams to, and the number that Owens had attached to him, there was NO TRADE MARKET for Owens. Dallas needed to get rid of him for both team purposes AND money purposes.That's right, the only way a Buffalo could have afforded him is, if he was cut.

Dallas took a $4 million hit to the cap by releasing him now. They have several players they're not negotiating with. They have NO pick in the first round this year, Jones isn't going to tolerate that. Buffalo's on the cusp of being a pretty good team, an infusion of talent from Dallas plus the backdoored TO, might just push them into a Lombardi.

It worked almost, for Nawlins and Miami. No one saw those sweetheart trades coming then either.

We'll find out in April.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

That's right, the only way a Buffalo could have afforded him is, if he was cut.

Dallas took a $4 million hit to the cap by releasing him now. They have several players they're not negotiating with. They have NO pick in the first round this year, Jones isn't going to tolerate that. Buffalo's on the cusp of being a pretty good team, an infusion of talent from Dallas plus the backdoored TO, might just push them into a Lombardi.

It worked almost, for Nawlins and Miami. No one saw those sweetheart trades coming then either.

We'll find out in April.

Jones isn't negotiating because he knows he's got a shot at an uncapped year in '11.

[Lord of Mirrors]

Jones isn't negotiating because he knows he's got a shot at an uncapped year in '11.He's made several tender offers to players he's not planning on trading.

Hey Funk, want to take a crack at the title riddle?

[Dr. Funkenstein]

He's made several tender offers to players he's not planning on trading.

Hey Funk, want to take a crack at the title riddle?

That just sounds like my stomach after a trip to Taco Bell...;)

[Buffalo]

Just to clarify a bit. The Bills have plenty of cap room, Wade Phillips was forced out of Buffalo and is not friendly with our management, and TO cam to the Bills because he had very few options.

As for those rumblings and funny smell, I suggest

[Lord of Mirrors]

Just to clarify a bit. The Bills have plenty of cap room, Wade Phillips was forced out of Buffalo and is not friendly with our management, and TO cam to the Bills because he had very few options.

As for those rumblings and funny smell, I suggestThe Bills have plenty of cap room? That's contrary to published reports, even on the Bills' website.

Phillips and the Bills owner are still tight. And again, Buffalo or most other teams could not have afforded TO unless he was cut. It's just simple math.

[Lord of Mirrors]

That just sounds like my stomach after a trip to Taco Bell...;)I even gave you an extra hint!

[Buffalo]

The Bills have plenty of cap room? That's contrary to published reports, even on the Bills' website.

Phillips and the Bills owner are still tight. And again, Buffalo or most other teams could not have afforded TO unless he was cut. It's just simple math.
http://blogs.buffalobills.com/tag/salary-cap/
http://www.billsdaily.com/frontoffice/salarycap.shtml
They have more than 28 million to spend (ETA:actually a lot more than that). They could have afforded two or three T.O.s.
And I don't know where you get that Phillips and Wilson are tight. Wilson pushed him out the door right before hiring Tom Donahoe.

[Lord of Mirrors]

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/tag/salary-cap/
http://www.billsdaily.com/frontoffice/salarycap.shtml
They have more than 28 million to spend (ETA:actually a lot more than that). They could have afforded two or three T.O.s.
And I don't know where you get that Phillips and Wilson are tight. Wilson pushed him out the door right before hiring Tom Donahoe.They have cap trouble because of the ton of free agents they need to sign, they really cannot afford to sign a first round pick. Plus, TO doesn't count squat against the cap this year, and he'll only count a million or so when they finally cut him, probably at the end of his current deal. Again, the ONLY reason they could afford TO is the fact that he was CUT. They couldn't have traded for him, they would be fools to inherit that contract and the cap hit.

And we'll see what happens in April, if the Bills and Dallas work out a draft-day trade deal it's gonna look suspicious.

Care to take a stab at the riddle?

[Buffalo]

They have cap trouble because of the ton of free agents they need to sign, they really cannot afford to sign a first round pick. Plus, TO doesn't count squat against the cap this year, and he'll only count a million or so when they finally cut him, probably at the end of his current deal. Again, the ONLY reason they could afford TO is the fact that he was CUT. They couldn't have traded for him, they would be fools to inherit that contract and the cap hit.

And we'll see what happens in April, if the Bills and Dallas work out a draft-day trade deal it's gonna look suspicious.

Care to take a stab at the riddle?
I'm gonna disagree with you on the cap thing, the Bills are in a good position right now, even under the cash to the cap scenario. As for the riddle, I'm lost.:mrgreen:

[Lord of Mirrors]

I'm gonna disagree with you on the cap thing, the Bills are in a good position right now, even under the cash to the cap scenario. As for the riddle, I'm lost.:mrgreen:The Bills are in alot better shape cap wise than alot of teams, that is a fact.

Here's the riddle clues so far:

"just some rumblings I'm getting, just a funny smell, but..."

and:

"take a crack at it."

See if that helps.

[Lord of Mirrors]

The first round came and went, and there was no trade between Dallas and Buffalo. Once again, I was wrong.

The riddle in the thread title? It was too easy. "End Stinks" or, instincts.

My instincts were wrong however.

By the way, who else here is damn impressed with Buffalo's maneuvers, getting an additional #1 and making two great picks?

[Lord of Mirrors]

Stunningly, Dallas DID do a trade with Buffalo! They traded their only first-day pick, #51 overall, to the Bills for a their 3rd and 4th round picks.

Dallas now has 12 picks tomorrow.