Who was the godfather of Jihad and was he tied to Radical Palestinian movement? [Archive]

View Full Version : Who was the godfather of Jihad and was he tied to Radical Palestinian movement?

The Bos'un

March 10th, 2009, 5:58 pm

We should search the electronic DNA of radical islam before we go to bed with any of our enemies.. ( President Oby, Please do better research on who you want as friends in the Islamic community than you did with your failed appointments)

We can start out with Dr. Abdullah Yusuf Azzam (1941-1989), The Godfather of Jihad (fortunately Azzam is deceased, 1989)

Azzam was both a scholar and a mujahid of immense importance to the development of contemporary Islamic radicalism, particularly in the foundation of al-Qaeda. Born in West Bank Jordan in 1941, he was a child when Israel was founded. He joined the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood before he had come of age, and was involved in actions against Israel.

Azzam obtained a PhD in fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) at al-Azhar University, Egypt, in 1973, where he became friends with the Qutb family, Sheikh 'Umar Abd el-Rahman and Ayman al-Zawahiri. He became a lecturer at Amman University but was obliged to leave due to his radical views, and resumed his academic career as a lecturer at Abdulaziz University, Saudi Arabia, where he influenced a generation of Saudis, including Usama bin Laden.

He had connections with Yasser Arafat and is said to have had a role in founding Hamas, however he broke with the Palestinian struggle on the basis that it was polluted with a secular national liberation ideology, rather than being purely Islamic.

The pan-Islamic ideal was important to Azzam, for whom "geographic[al] borders that have been drawn up for us by the Kuffar (non-Muslims)" between Muslim countries were part of a conspiracy to prevent the umma from realizing the potential of a trans-national Islamic state.

-----------------------------------

Famous quote: "Jihad and rifle alone. No negotiations. No conferences and No Dialogue." ~ Azzam, Abdullah. "Join the Caravan", http://www.islamistwatch.org/texts/azzam/caravan/caravan.html
source: pwhce

Any of our Israeli brothers in the forum have any information on Azzam?

Perhaps we should start going in depth on the depravity of radical Palestinians who bomb Israel daily as the "world community" tries to figure out ways to appease them.

Lets talk about the Muslim Brotherhood (thought by some of our democrat legislators as a peaceful organization). Lets talk about the true nature of Hamas, Hezbollah, and radicalization. Lets talk about pan-Islamic ideology. Lets talk about trans-national Islamic state.

Only intelligent discussions are encouraged on this thread.

The Bos'un

March 10th, 2009, 6:23 pm

As the Lenin of international jihad, Abdullah Azzam didn't invent his movement's ideas, but he furthered them and put them into practice around the world. He constructed the religious ideology for the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, recruited Arab mujahideen to implement his vision, and built the international network that his disciple, Osama Bin Laden, would turn into al-Qaida. Azzam applied his ideas in his native Palestine, too, where he served as a founding member of Hamas. After Sept. 11, Americans believed that Bin Laden transformed the world in one swift stroke. But it was Azzam who, years before, laid the groundwork for the current wars in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

Political Islam's Great Communicator and traveling salesman, Azzam trotted the globe during the 1980s to promote the Afghan jihad against the Soviets. By the time of his death in 1989, he had recruited between 16,000 and 20,000 mujahideen from 20 countries to Afghanistan, visited 50 American cities to advance his cause, and dispatched acolytes to spread the gospel in 26 U.S. states, not to mention across the Middle East and Europe.Source: Slate (http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064385)

The Bos'un

March 10th, 2009, 6:39 pm

The Bos'un

March 10th, 2009, 6:41 pm

Disclaimer: Not all Muslims are radicalized, only a small number of the 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. I do not intend to disparage all Muslims for the sins of a few. However, we must look at some of the forces that Islamists draw from.
The Speech of Salahuddin Ayubi upon Conquering Jerusalem

QUOTE BY SALAHUDDIN AYYUBI

"We hope in Allah Most High, to whom be Praise, who leads the hearts of Muslims to calm what torments them and ruins their prosperity. Where is the sense of honour of the Muslims? The pride of the Believers? The zeal of the Faithful? We shall never cease to be amazed at how the disbelievers for their part have shown trusts, and it is the Muslims who have been lacking in zeal. Not one of them has responded to the call. Not one intervenes to straighten what is distorted,- but observe how far the Franks have gone. What unity they have achieved. What aims they pursue. What help they have given. What sums of money they have borrowed and spent. What wealth they have collected and distributed and divided amongst them. There is not a king left in their lands or islands, or a rich man who has not competed with his neighbours to produce more support and rival his peers in strenuous military efforts. In defence of their religion they consider it a small thing to spend life and soul,- and they have kept their infidel brothers supplied with arms and champions of war, and all they have done and all their generosity has been done purely out of zeal for him they worship in jealous defence of their faith. The Muslims on the other hand are weakened and demoralised and they have become negligent and lazy, the victims of unproductive stupification and completely lacking in enthusiasm.

If, Allah forbid, Islam should draw reign, obscure her splendour, blunt her sword, there would be no one, east or west, far or near who would blaze the zeal for Allah's religion, or choose to come to the aid of Truth against Falsehood. This is the moment to cast off laziness, to summon from far and near all those men who have blood in their veins; but we are confident (He speaks about himself and the small party of believers who began with him and then became a large party); but we are confident, thanks to Allah - Alhamdulillah - in the help that will come from Him in sincerity of purpose and deepest devotion. Insha-Allah the disbelievers shall perish and the Faithful shall have a sure deliverance.

[Salahuddin Ayyubi, Liberator of jerusalem 12th Century CE]

Abu Shamma, Kitab Ar-Rawadatain (History Book)

http://www.islamistwatch.org/texts/a...yandquote.html (http://www.islamistwatch.org/texts/azzam/caravan/glossaryandquote.html)
__________________
...And God will remove the fear in the hearts of your enemies and place in your hearts al-wahan.’ They said, ‘What is al-wahan O Messenger of God?’ He said, ‘Love of this world and hatred of death.

-Prophet Mohammed Source Umma Forum.

mark23

March 11th, 2009, 4:51 am

While all muslims are not terriorist 99.9% of muslims want sharia world wide. The non violent ones resort to stelth jihad and demographic conquest.

rhet 2

March 11th, 2009, 12:27 pm

While all muslims are not terriorist 99.9% of muslims want sharia world wide. The non violent ones resort to stelth jihad and demographic conquest.

Don't know many Muslims, do you?

Does it not occur to you that MOST observe shari'a only pro forma -- without the total devotion to slavish adulation you imput to them?

Radicalized fanatic devotees do exist -- somewhere between 17 and 33 % --

But the vast majority simply want decency and good stable family lives -- and see islamic culture patterns as less threatening because less chaotic than the liberal anything-goes lifestyle.

And simply out of habit -- it's all they've ever known since birth. Observing Ramadan and praying 3 times a day and attending mosque is rather like so many Westerners who observe Christmas and Easter and go to church once in a blue moon -- but never actually read and study and think about the Bible.

Hell, most of them can't even read the ancient Arabic of the koran, and all they know about it is what their imam tells them it says when they go to mosque.

Then you have a Rabble Rouser like Ayubi with the Power of Rhetoric come along to stir up brief short spurts of fanatic hyper-emotionalism.

Rather the same syndrome as we've seen with the Great Pretender, Obama-Freak. Nothing but rabble-rousers who can gain some temporary influence over ill-informed, ill-educated, irrational, hyper-emotionalized Kids Looking for a Cause to give some meaning and purpose to their otherwise wasted existences.

The Bos'un

March 12th, 2009, 3:29 am

TheFallGuy

March 12th, 2009, 6:01 am

Don't know many Muslims, do you?

Does it not occur to you that MOST observe shari'a only pro forma -- without the total devotion to slavish adulation you imput to them?

Radicalized fanatic devotees do exist -- somewhere between 17 and 33 % --

But the vast majority simply want decency and good stable family lives -- and see islamic culture patterns as less threatening because less chaotic than the liberal anything-goes lifestyle.

And simply out of habit -- it's all they've ever known since birth. Observing Ramadan and praying 3 times a day and attending mosque is rather like so many Westerners who observe Christmas and Easter and go to church once in a blue moon -- but never actually read and study and think about the Bible.

Hell, most of them can't even read the ancient Arabic of the koran, and all they know about it is what their imam tells them it says when they go to mosque.

Then you have a Rabble Rouser like Ayubi with the Power of Rhetoric come along to stir up brief short spurts of fanatic hyper-emotionalism.

Rather the same syndrome as we've seen with the Great Pretender, Obama-Freak. Nothing but rabble-rousers who can gain some temporary influence over ill-informed, ill-educated, irrational, hyper-emotionalized Kids Looking for a Cause to give some meaning and purpose to their otherwise wasted existences.

Right on. I've known a lot of muslims and most of them are decent god-fearing people who have nothing to do with terrorism or want anything to do with it. As you've described, most of them just want to live and go about their lives--islam is what they grew up with.

However, where there is a muslim majority, the people do get oppressed regarding the freedoms or the rights to choose simply because hard liners tend to rise to power in their religious and political circles--not a healthy environment. I lived in a densely muslim-populated area and as long as they were from that area (Russia) they were okay about leaving islam and becoming Christians. The ones from Azerbaijan or Armenia feared for their lives or for their family's lives. The ones from Russia used sharia only in its most vaguest terms, while the Azerbaijanis or Armenians had more strict forms of sharia. And if you look at dense muslim populations, the hard-line muslims tend to gravitate towards power, sadly. The moderate or "liberal" muslims get drowned out in the noise or are cut off or simply 'dealt with'. There are a few exceptions, but this is generally the rule that I have witnessed.

rhet 2

March 12th, 2009, 1:15 pm

Right on. I've known a lot of muslims and most of them are decent god-fearing people who have nothing to do with terrorism or want anything to do with it. As you've described, most of them just want to live and go about their lives--islam is what they grew up with.

However, where there is a muslim majority, the people do get oppressed regarding the freedoms or the rights to choose simply because hard liners tend to rise to power in their religious and political circles--not a healthy environment. I lived in a densely muslim-populated area and as long as they were from that area (Russia) they were okay about leaving islam and becoming Christians. The ones from Azerbaijan or Armenia feared for their lives or for their family's lives. The ones from Russia used sharia only in its most vaguest terms, while the Azerbaijanis or Armenians had more strict forms of sharia. And if you look at dense muslim populations, the hard-line muslims tend to gravitate towards power, sadly. The moderate or "liberal" muslims get drowned out in the noise or are cut off or simply 'dealt with'. There are a few exceptions, but this is generally the rule that I have witnessed.

Like moldy and soured, spoiled cream, extremists always rise to the top -- that's because they're not content to "live and let live" but have a massive inferiority complex that shoves them into excesses just to prove to themselves they're NOT the same as everybody else.

It's what drove Koresh to the top of his own "profession" -- and what drives others of the same mega-maniacal need for public worship to prove to themselves that they really are worth more than the rest of humanity. The syndrome is called, technically, "approbation lust" -- friendship is not enough for some warped psyches -- they've got to have adulation to feel good about themselves. And the least hint of rejection causes violent and terribly personalized hatred that, even if publically suppressed, does lead to backstabbing vindictiveness, including vicious verbal abuse of the Rejector, whenever possible.

Which is why you see jihadist fanatics always recruited from the "misfits" and psychologically warped members of societies -- they're damaged goods, often bullied and abused in vicious ways as youngsters, who are looking for very desperate ways to prove TO THEMSELVES that they're not damaged, just better than others and therefore unappreciated and unloved by others. It's a form of hyper-compensation for rejection and bullying as helpless kids, rejection and bullying that made them actually hate themselves before they discovered "a CAUSE" that compensates by making them feel superior instead of inferior.

Therefore, since the lesser beings are unable to voluntarily appreciate the Wonder of Us, they're driven to physical, legal, and judicial brutalities and injustices in order to force "appreciation" on others and demonstrate TO THEMSELVES that they really are more powerful, wiser, smarter, MORE WORTHWHILE than those who rejected and bullied them as kids.

This is one of the primary factors that makes the islamic fanatics into Death Cults that function almost exactly like those we're seen in David Koresh and Jim Jones.

And the physical abuse which is integral in those so-called schools of theirs and some of their immediate family lives -- especially in the ME -- is GUARANTEED to produce weak, damaged, really messed up psyches with extreme socialization malfunctions.

Rape, harsh beatings, constant carping criticism and verbal abuse -- all cause extreme inferiority complexes, which drive the individual to hyper-compensation need to prove himself superior instead of inferior.

And all of it seems to cause the literal physical destruction of the sympathy/empathy and rational thinking centers of the human brain -- quite possibly through extended and repeated hyper-emotional trauma diverting blood and oxygen away from the self-control centers and to the flight/flight panic centers where emotional extreme reactions occur.

And that is how a cute little baby is turned into a mass-murdering psychopath like Charles Manson.

Such victims literally cannot imagine the pain and suffering they cause, cannot empathize with the victims of their social/political aggressions.

A literally dead, no longer existing, conscience causes total dehumanized behaviors, especially egocentric self-exhaltation, in people who quite literally CANNOT empathize and respond openly in even social give and take tradeoff exchanges with others.

When you encounter one of the radicalized psychotic ones, you know it almost instantly.

It's the exact same crap that drove Stalin and Hitler, drives Chavez, drove Mao, drives Michael Moore and George Soros, drives David Duke and the KKK'ers and neo-Nazis, drove Phelps and many of that psychotic group -- and drives many of the Holly Weird Freakos, too.

Chief characteristics include:

1) Inability to admit they screwed up and inability to take back stage to others -- MUST be the center of attention and MUST be loved with near total adulation that goes beyond friendship and loyalty to total absolute dedication from their followers, including the will to die for them

2) Inability to discuss both sides of any issue -- FANATIC lock down into a single, very narrow-minded, boxed in dogmatic insistence that X and ONLY X is right

3) Fanatic loyalty to a CAUSE that transcends Self and becomes central to their every thought and action -- that CAUSE can be self-advancement or advancement of a small, narrowly defined and extremely exclusivist social clique, or some social policy, often a combination of loosely coherent policies, all based on negation and rejection of other policies advocated by Not Followers, who are totally hated because they refused to follow the Cult Leaders' demands.

4) Cold, hard, unable to cooperate or yield on any issue from something as insignificant as coffee brand names to which house or car or tv to buy -- total inability to accept somebody else's beliefs and preferences as of equal value.

5) Total fury if their will seems to be balked in any slightest way, rage if they power and authority seem to be challenged -- screaming meemie hissy fits that can and do result in physical violence and death are rare -- mostly you see cold hard KILLER hate that will bide its time and wait for the perfect controlled opportunity to "get even" for the rejection of their self-affirmation CAUSE, whatever the CAUSE they've been drawn into to get the self-affirmation they couldn't acquire through normal hey-I'm-not-perfect but I'm-still- okay self-perceptivity.

Zarqawi's beheading of Nick Berg is a perfect illustration of the psychopathic insanity that earmarks islamic fanatics.

Mohawk5

March 12th, 2009, 5:07 pm

Palestinians were highly involved with the Nazi party and had a definite interest in the slaughter of the Jews. It's a fact.

rhet 2

March 12th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Palestinians were highly involved with the Nazi party and had a definite interest in the slaughter of the Jews. It's a fact.

To understand why, you've got to get a grasp of the essential psychological conditioning that causes such RACISM -- and racism it surely IS, to this day.

A belief that only the fanatic loyalists are "true Arabs" and therefore a SUPERIOR RACE deserving of absolute rule and maximum social and economic privilege -- which was essential to German and Italian fascism, too.

All of such Racist Supremacy is driven by an underlying fear of personal inadequacy that drives a psychotic need for supremacy and adulation combined with a frantic hatred of rejection and intolerance for opposition.

The Bos'un

March 14th, 2009, 1:54 am

Palestinians were highly involved with the Nazi party and had a definite interest in the slaughter of the Jews. It's a fact.
You are correct in the RADICALIZE Palestinian (there are good Palestinians who are peace loving, but, there is a certain number of radicalism Muhammadans who are into hate) involvement with Nazism. Also, the for runners of Muslim Brotherhood was deeply involved in Nazism, too. Apparently what we see is the movement of antisemitism ideology and holocaust deniers who are ate up on hate.

And, we are supposed to negotiate with them?

rhet 2

March 14th, 2009, 12:19 pm

You are correct in the RADICALIZE Palestinian (there are good Palestinians who are peace loving, but, there is a certain number of radicalism Muhammadans who are into hate) involvement with Nazism. Also, the for runners of Muslim Brotherhood was deeply involved in Nazism, too. Apparently what we see is the movement of antisemitism ideology and holocaust deniers who are ate up on hate.

And, we are supposed to negotiate with them?

A vote for a Democrat is a vote for moral corruption:

legalized murder, rape, torture, thievery, and every other form of ANTI_CIVIL BARBARITIES ever known by the Imperial Roman Slug Feasters in the 1st century of our barbaric past.

These Democrats live according to the Nero and Caligula models of absolute LEGALIZED corruption.

The Bos'un

March 15th, 2009, 5:18 am

I like your Nero and Caligula analogy, Rhet... ;)

TheFallGuy

March 15th, 2009, 5:44 am

I like your Nero and Caligula analogy, Rhet... ;)

It's apt. And it extends across both party lines.

Gov't officials have forgotten where the money comes from. They cut the purse strings from the taxpayer and the glut is just beginning. Bush was bad with it, but Obama and the democrats severed the strings with an efficiency to make Bush's overexpenditures pale in comparison. When gov't officials forget where the money comes from, the collapse of said gov't follows shortly after. I do NOT want to see that with our lovely home. Currently Obama is playing Nero, fiddle singing its song as the flames start to rise. Both parties are drunken swine at the trough of the public's trust. My only hope is that someone will step in and save us before we crumble.

rhet 2

March 15th, 2009, 12:35 pm

It's apt. And it extends across both party lines.

Gov't officials have forgotten where the money comes from. They cut the purse strings from the taxpayer and the glut is just beginning. Bush was bad with it, but Obama and the democrats severed the strings with an efficiency to make Bush's overexpenditures pale in comparison. When gov't officials forget where the money comes from, the collapse of said gov't follows shortly after. I do NOT want to see that with our lovely home. Currently Obama is playing Nero, fiddle singing its song as the flames start to rise. Both parties are drunken swine at the trough of the public's trust. My only hope is that someone will step in and save us before we crumble.

I've been comparing what the Roman government did in terms of domestic -- economic and social policies -- and foreign policies during the reigns of Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and then Nero -- and looking at the overall tone of political machinations and tactics -- and I'm telling you, the Imperator Obaminatus IS DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. The policies, the attitudes, the behaviors are ALL straight out of the collapse of the Roman Republic, followed by the total collapse of the entire Roman socio-political system.

This stuff is ANCIENT, tried again and again and again -- and the ONLY results have been the total collapse of all order, all potential for social and communal interfunctionality -- chaos, one insane mob riot after another, revolution and palace coups after another, murders and assassinations and endless intercine focus on the power of this group, replaced by the next SMALL special freaked out fanatic group, to be replaced by still another -- while foreign enemies raided and destroyed and murdered helpless innocent citizens in an ever-expanding circle of barbaric violence -- and the politicians fought each other instead of fighting to defend those who depended on them.

What comes next is government DECREES to force citizens to work in one profession and not in one they choose for themselves, live and work in the EXACT SAME government owned and government controlled districts without FREE CHOICE, submit to forced searches of homes and persons, etc., all in an effort to CONTROL the economy so that the flow of cash into imperial coffers for redistribution to suit POLITICAL EXPEDIENCIES can continue.

And, since 2000, the DNC is already LOCKED INTO those exact same imperial Pay to Play games, moving now toward total control over every detail of citizen lives in order to maintain that flow into imperial coffers.

Check out the DEBT of the imperial government by the middle of Nero's reign -- he was just as much in the hole as DC is now -- and for EXACTLY the same reasons -- Pay to Play buy votes, buy political support from special interest groups, buy power one by punishing districts who refused to support him and rewarding those which did by handing out BORROWED AND TAXED TO HELL AND GONE MONEY.

Stalin, Hitler -- Louis XIV-XVI -- and the Romanov Tzars -- they all played the EXACT SAME POLITICAL and socio-economic games -- with the exact same results.

And islamic jihadis are playing the role of invading barbarians out to destroy Roman humanism itself -- while Nero concentrates on destroying the at-home opponents to his personalized rule, power he should never have had in the first place. While Ron Paul and the Libertarians play Ostrogoths and the GOP play ineffective and weak-willed Roman republicans, each focused on getting power for his own faction, all of them ignoring the Big Picture, unable and unwilling to serve the needs of the ENTIRE nation.

But the Dems and their supporters are totally locked into denial, unwilling and unable to see the parallels.

Mohawk5

March 15th, 2009, 9:48 pm

Rhet always enlightening as usual.

TheFallGuy

March 15th, 2009, 11:12 pm

I've been comparing what the Roman government did in terms of domestic -- economic and social policies -- and foreign policies during the reigns of Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and then Nero -- and looking at the overall tone of political machinations and tactics -- and I'm telling you, the Imperator Obaminatus IS DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. The policies, the attitudes, the behaviors are ALL straight out of the collapse of the Roman Republic, followed by the total collapse of the entire Roman socio-political system.

This stuff is ANCIENT, tried again and again and again -- and the ONLY results have been the total collapse of all order, all potential for social and communal interfunctionality -- chaos, one insane mob riot after another, revolution and palace coups after another, murders and assassinations and endless intercine focus on the power of this group, replaced by the next SMALL special freaked out fanatic group, to be replaced by still another -- while foreign enemies raided and destroyed and murdered helpless innocent citizens in an ever-expanding circle of barbaric violence -- and the politicians fought each other instead of fighting to defend those who depended on them.

What comes next is government DECREES to force citizens to work in one profession and not in one they choose for themselves, live and work in the EXACT SAME government owned and government controlled districts without FREE CHOICE, submit to forced searches of homes and persons, etc., all in an effort to CONTROL the economy so that the flow of cash into imperial coffers for redistribution to suit POLITICAL EXPEDIENCIES can continue.

And, since 2000, the DNC is already LOCKED INTO those exact same imperial Pay to Play games, moving now toward total control over every detail of citizen lives in order to maintain that flow into imperial coffers.

Check out the DEBT of the imperial government by the middle of Nero's reign -- he was just as much in the hole as DC is now -- and for EXACTLY the same reasons -- Pay to Play buy votes, buy political support from special interest groups, buy power one by punishing districts who refused to support him and rewarding those which did by handing out BORROWED AND TAXED TO HELL AND GONE MONEY.

Stalin, Hitler -- Louis XIV-XVI -- and the Romanov Tzars -- they all played the EXACT SAME POLITICAL and socio-economic games -- with the exact same results.

And islamic jihadis are playing the role of invading barbarians out to destroy Roman humanism itself -- while Nero concentrates on destroying the at-home opponents to his personalized rule, power he should never have had in the first place. While Ron Paul and the Libertarians play Ostrogoths and the GOP play ineffective and weak-willed Roman republicans, each focused on getting power for his own faction, all of them ignoring the Big Picture, unable and unwilling to serve the needs of the ENTIRE nation.

But the Dems and their supporters are totally locked into denial, unwilling and unable to see the parallels.

You're right. And that's why we need to work as hard as we can to get people of integrity who know that the purse is empty to correct the mistakes of the idiocracy in charge (both dem and repub).

Sleepy... I'll post something more when I can think more coherently.

The Bos'un

March 16th, 2009, 3:35 am

TheFallGuy

March 16th, 2009, 3:48 am

So, what are you saying anyway? You must have me confused with a republican or conservative.

Huh? I think there's something lost in translation here.

Edit to add: Check your PMs.

The Bos'un

March 16th, 2009, 4:48 am

oops I thought you were talking about another thread in AAW......

TheFallGuy

March 16th, 2009, 4:52 am

oops I thought you were talking about another thread in AAW......

Hey no problem. We worked it out. ;)

I'll see what I can post over there.

The Bos'un

March 16th, 2009, 4:56 am

TheFallGuy

March 16th, 2009, 5:29 am

TheFallGuy,

I am not one to argue. I agree that both sides of the aisle have messed some things up. I was not always behind President Bush. He had good intentions, but, because he was the one who made the decisions, he was destined to make some asinine decisions too.

Historically, the liberal party has really been out to lunch on rational decisions. We could weigh in why some voted for Obama and how they were trying to right perceived wrongs of the past.

I think they got sold damaged goods and electing Oby will prove to be a mistake. But, he is our president and commander in chief now. We are going to have to rally behind him and present a united front against our enemies....

Bush did some good things, he made some mistakes. Clinton did some good things, he made some mistakes. It's part of life.

I think the real danger with Obama is, really, he is his own man. Although he owes much to those who put him there, he will act any way he damn well pleases. He's already proven that. Honestly, I don't like him. I don't think he's going to be good for our country and the socialist path he wants to go down will only harm us.

And you are correct. He IS our CiC whether we like him or not. If we have to shield ourselves behind "respect the office not the man" then so be it. But personally, I pray Obama will be able to guide our country through troubled times. I hope he is successful in that regard. I hope he fails miserably in installing liberal, socialist agendas. I've seen what socialism and communism does to a people. It ain't pretty. And I don't want it for us.

The Bos'un

March 16th, 2009, 12:16 pm

I saluted several nitwits in my military career. :)) I saluted the offices and positions they held, not the individuals. ;) Catch you later.....

rhet 2

March 16th, 2009, 1:22 pm

I saluted several nitwits in my military career. :)) I saluted the offices and positions they held, not the individuals. ;) Catch you later.....

Trouble comes when they SEIZE command by violent and corrupt means that amount to mutiny instead of due process.

Then, I've got real problems because saluting the office becomes saluting treachery and betrayal of what that office represents.

But, countering treachery with violence and rebellion is just plain as stupidly corrupt as the treachery and social violence that got the Usurper power in the first place.

We've GOT to deal with the treachery through PEACEFUL AND LEGAL challenge of that usurpation of power and through challenge of the corrupt applications of that power in order to establish and reinforce JUST AND TRUE limitations not just on the application of power but on the means used to acquire the power in the first place.

And that means PEACEFUL resistance and DEMAND for reform of the entire electoral process.

Because revolution only confirms and normalizes violent and destructive means of acquiring the power.

So, we confirm the Office, while we LOUDLY repudiate the anti-social means by which the Slugs acquired power, condemn their abuse of power, and work like fury to REFORM the process by which power is acquired and then the process by which power is applied, DEMANDING HONOR AND HONESTY instead of this ******** criminal machination and secret slimy disgustingly SUB-HUMAN Pay to Play Deals with Devils dog fight viciousness that has developed since LBJ first corrupted not just the Oval Office, but Congress and the Courts as well.

And we MUST do so without resorting to the exact same disgusting brutal force and criminality they have used to corrupt our entire political system in the first place.

We MUST demand HONOR and WISDOM and JUSTICE and meticulous CARE FOR FUTURE HUMANITY from ourselves first before we can demand it from Washington.

And armed resistance, any least hint of rebellion, will achieve the exact opposite of what must be done.

Which is where the islamic fascists destroy themselves: they set a pattern with their own tactics and their own goals which WILL be used to destroy them by others, setting in motion an endless cycle of the exact same violence and socially destructive tactics used in repeated cycles of Power Acquisition, Abuse of Power, Power Loss to another equally corrupt and destructive group of power mongering destructive fools.

That cycle of endless powermongering corruptions and destructions sank the Ottoman Empire FROM THE BEGINNING into one endless cycle of abuse and moral corruption and violent usurpation of authority after another -- the same tactics putting first one group and then another into power which was then abused and misused to destroy rather than to foster human life at the individual small family level.

Think of the Hitler situation: he too used corrupt and disgusting means to acquire power, which he then used to destroy civilized existence at the individual and small family levels. He dreamed of a Thousand Year Reich where his aristocracy at the top of the Power Pig piled thrived and less worthy humanity served the Will of the Elite Superior Men at the top.

And very very very soon he faced one attempted rebellion after another, ending his life in paranoid terror of assassination by that very same Elite he had put in power in the first place. Even Himler was an enemy before Hitler killed himself in abject and total failure.

Stalin the same, exactly.

The Roman Caesars from Julius onward lived in terror of the assassination/palace coups that DID eventually take out most of them. They used vicious immoral and unethical means to acquire power, then were forced to abuse that power to try to keep that power, which gave their opponents all the cause in the universe to take them down. And their opponents took them down using the same vicious, immoral and unethical means to take them down that they'd used to climb the Power Pig Pile in the first place.

Every last one of the islamic Power Pigs of the Ottoman Empire from Abu Bakr and Ali on lived in the exact same cycle of fear and nasty corrupt and vicious TACTICS to acquire power that were then used to make their lives an endless paranoia-driven hell, with the threat of losing the power they were forced to misuse once they'd acquired it always hanging over their heads.

Corruption breeds corruption.
Violence breeds violence.
Immorality breeds immorality.
Abuse of power breeds still more abuse of power.

Endless cycles of DISHONOR and DISHONESTY and DEGRADATION after DEGRADATION, each cycle worse than what preceeded it.

We MUST NOT FALL INTO THAT VICIOUS CYCLE.

We've got to BREAK THE CYCLE, using HONOR to get the political Power Pig cycle of corruption stopped, replaced by a new HONOR CODE that all politicians and civil servants DEMAND OF THEMSELVES out of self-respect and simple PERSONAL HONOR, not out of fear of retribution and loss of power, but out of refusal to engage in dishonorable and dishonest and corrupt behaviors.

Use HONOR to oppose dishonor, HONESTY to oppose dishonesty, SELFLESSNESS to oppose selfishness, GENEROSITY to oppose greed, HUMILITY to oppose pride, POWERLESSNESS to oppose power mongering, and NEVER use violence to oppose violence, immorality to oppose immorality, degradation to oppose degradation, etc.

In keeping to his own personal honor code and refusing to engage in slimy vicious pit bull dog LIES and corrupt, anti-honor and honesty-destroying deals under the table, McCain did wisely.

But in refusing to spotlight the dishonor and corruption of the DNC power mongers, he blew it -- because corruption grows in darkness where people cannot see what's going on and ONLY when spotlights are shone hot and bright on that corruption does dishonor and dishonesty wither and die.

He should have HIGHLIGHTED the Pay to Play moral corruption of the Left, HIGHLIGHTED the damage they've done to civilization and all hope of decent communal existence they've caused for so many innocent people for decades now.

He -- and Bush before him -- should have waged verbal and legal war against the social mold and moral Pay to Play secrecy and power mongering corruption which has destroyed the Democrat Party and makes modern "liberalism" the humanity hating social brutality and cruelty dressed up in Halloween costumes joke of human history that it has become.

Same thing with islamic fascism in the ME and in the West: we fail to highlight the disgustingly immoral and corrupt DESTRUCTIVENESS and damage to individual life that their tactics and their motives cause -- so the Ummah cannot see just how marginalized and miserable those Power Pigs make their lives -- and the Ummah sees no other way to exist except to ignore the brutality and cruelty and destructiveness of their own Power Pigs -- and never acquires the Honor Code required to escape that moral cesspool thrust upon them from birth.

The Bos'un

March 17th, 2009, 4:39 am

Trouble comes when they SEIZE command by violent and corrupt means that amount to mutiny instead of due process.

Then, I've got real problems because saluting the office becomes saluting treachery and betrayal of what that office represents.

But, countering treachery with violence and rebellion is just plain as stupidly corrupt as the treachery and social violence that got the Usurper power in the first place.

We've GOT to deal with the treachery through PEACEFUL AND LEGAL challenge of that usurpation of power and through challenge of the corrupt applications of that power in order to establish and reinforce JUST AND TRUE limitations not just on the application of power but on the means used to acquire the power in the first place.

And that means PEACEFUL resistance and DEMAND for reform of the entire electoral process.

Because revolution only confirms and normalizes violent and destructive means of acquiring the power.

So, we confirm the Office, while we LOUDLY repudiate the anti-social means by which the Slugs acquired power, condemn their abuse of power, and work like fury to REFORM the process by which power is acquired and then the process by which power is applied, DEMANDING HONOR AND HONESTY instead of this ******** criminal machination and secret slimy disgustingly SUB-HUMAN Pay to Play Deals with Devils dog fight viciousness that has developed since LBJ first corrupted not just the Oval Office, but Congress and the Courts as well.

And we MUST do so without resorting to the exact same disgusting brutal force and criminality they have used to corrupt our entire political system in the first place.

We MUST demand HONOR and WISDOM and JUSTICE and meticulous CARE FOR FUTURE HUMANITY from ourselves first before we can demand it from Washington.

And armed resistance, any least hint of rebellion, will achieve the exact opposite of what must be done.

Which is where the islamic fascists destroy themselves: they set a pattern with their own tactics and their own goals which WILL be used to destroy them by others, setting in motion an endless cycle of the exact same violence and socially destructive tactics used in repeated cycles of Power Acquisition, Abuse of Power, Power Loss to another equally corrupt and destructive group of power mongering destructive fools.

That cycle of endless powermongering corruptions and destructions sank the Ottoman Empire FROM THE BEGINNING into one endless cycle of abuse and moral corruption and violent usurpation of authority after another -- the same tactics putting first one group and then another into power which was then abused and misused to destroy rather than to foster human life at the individual small family level.

Think of the Hitler situation: he too used corrupt and disgusting means to acquire power, which he then used to destroy civilized existence at the individual and small family levels. He dreamed of a Thousand Year Reich where his aristocracy at the top of the Power Pig piled thrived and less worthy humanity served the Will of the Elite Superior Men at the top.

And very very very soon he faced one attempted rebellion after another, ending his life in paranoid terror of assassination by that very same Elite he had put in power in the first place. Even Himler was an enemy before Hitler killed himself in abject and total failure.

Stalin the same, exactly.

The Roman Caesars from Julius onward lived in terror of the assassination/palace coups that DID eventually take out most of them. They used vicious immoral and unethical means to acquire power, then were forced to abuse that power to try to keep that power, which gave their opponents all the cause in the universe to take them down. And their opponents took them down using the same vicious, immoral and unethical means to take them down that they'd used to climb the Power Pig Pile in the first place.

Every last one of the islamic Power Pigs of the Ottoman Empire from Abu Bakr and Ali on lived in the exact same cycle of fear and nasty corrupt and vicious TACTICS to acquire power that were then used to make their lives an endless paranoia-driven hell, with the threat of losing the power they were forced to misuse once they'd acquired it always hanging over their heads.

Corruption breeds corruption.
Violence breeds violence.
Immorality breeds immorality.
Abuse of power breeds still more abuse of power.

Endless cycles of DISHONOR and DISHONESTY and DEGRADATION after DEGRADATION, each cycle worse than what preceeded it.

We MUST NOT FALL INTO THAT VICIOUS CYCLE.

We've got to BREAK THE CYCLE, using HONOR to get the political Power Pig cycle of corruption stopped, replaced by a new HONOR CODE that all politicians and civil servants DEMAND OF THEMSELVES out of self-respect and simple PERSONAL HONOR, not out of fear of retribution and loss of power, but out of refusal to engage in dishonorable and dishonest and corrupt behaviors.

Use HONOR to oppose dishonor, HONESTY to oppose dishonesty, SELFLESSNESS to oppose selfishness, GENEROSITY to oppose greed, HUMILITY to oppose pride, POWERLESSNESS to oppose power mongering, and NEVER use violence to oppose violence, immorality to oppose immorality, degradation to oppose degradation, etc.

In keeping to his own personal honor code and refusing to engage in slimy vicious pit bull dog LIES and corrupt, anti-honor and honesty-destroying deals under the table, McCain did wisely.

But in refusing to spotlight the dishonor and corruption of the DNC power mongers, he blew it -- because corruption grows in darkness where people cannot see what's going on and ONLY when spotlights are shone hot and bright on that corruption does dishonor and dishonesty wither and die.

He should have HIGHLIGHTED the Pay to Play moral corruption of the Left, HIGHLIGHTED the damage they've done to civilization and all hope of decent communal existence they've caused for so many innocent people for decades now.

He -- and Bush before him -- should have waged verbal and legal war against the social mold and moral Pay to Play secrecy and power mongering corruption which has destroyed the Democrat Party and makes modern "liberalism" the humanity hating social brutality and cruelty dressed up in Halloween costumes joke of human history that it has become.

Same thing with islamic fascism in the ME and in the West: we fail to highlight the disgustingly immoral and corrupt DESTRUCTIVENESS and damage to individual life that their tactics and their motives cause -- so the Ummah cannot see just how marginalized and miserable those Power Pigs make their lives -- and the Ummah sees no other way to exist except to ignore the brutality and cruelty and destructiveness of their own Power Pigs -- and never acquires the Honor Code required to escape that moral cesspool thrust upon them from birth.
Or get voted in with ACORN's help.... :))

rhet 2

March 17th, 2009, 12:58 pm

Or get voted in with ACORN's help.... :))

Yeah.

And then the other guys form their own anti-ACORN to do the same, even more of, to take down the first ACORN thug in one endless thug game after another.

Which for 50 years and more has been pretty much the entire political strategy of the political and legal professions -- how to OUTSLIME the other SLIMERS who just SLIMED you out of power.

That is what has destroyed nation after nation, government after government, throughout history.

Outsliming the other guy is a real good precedent for being outslimed yourself in due course.

:wall:

Why is honor and honesty and refusing to engage in Slime Tactics so damned hard for politicians to do?

Yeah, I know: WINNING is everything -- gotta WIN no matter what kind of worthless animal I have to become in order to beat the OTHER guy.

If the only competition you're desperate to defeat at any cost is yourself, then you drive yourself to HONOR, not to despicable moral corruption in order to defeat and destroy the Other person.

If the Ayatollah Khameini concentrated his every energy on defeating himself instead of destroying everybody else, he'd be an asset instead of a threat to all humanity. Ditto Nasrallah -- concentrate on destroying his own personal weaknesses and character flaws instead of on destroying Israel -- and he'd become a true asset to ALL humanity, including the Israelis, instead of the enemy of all human decency and honor that he makes of himself in hating those who are not carbon copies of his own sick, weak, selfish-centered and totally SHALLOW beastly existence. He'd actually be a LIVING soul instead of a half-dead little animal.

Ditto Hillary, who is utterly DRIVEN to WIN at any cost -- be Supreme over OTHERS instead of being in control over herself.

Ditto Pelosi.

Ditto Obama.

Gotta DESTROY OTHERS, weaken and control OTHERS -- while letting their own flaws and weaknesses and hatreds and confusions and miserable LUST FOR POWER run rampant and out of control, driving them toward brutal indifference to the pain and misery and suffering their lust for VICTORY AT ANY COST causes.

rhet 2

March 18th, 2009, 1:54 pm

Really now?

I'm in your forums, demographically conquering you!

Just you wait till I call the rest of my Muslim horde and this will soon be islamoforums!

You're statement makes as much sense as me saying that while all Christians may not be shooting guns off in the middle east, 99.9% of them are crusaders dead set on wiping out islam.

Question, O Moderate Muslim:

how does the moderate Muslim community respond to and deal with the Ayatollah Khameini's recent proclamation that buggering a 3 month old female infant is just fine and dandy by Allah's point of view?

and why does so much money earned in the World of War, where social evil is rampant -- but the world's wealth originates -- and Muslims live freer, happier, healthier -- and far more prosperous -- lives than ever possible in the World of Peace where they were born -- wind up buying still more rockets for slaughtering the Children of Abraham in Israeli schools?

-- murderous weapons bought with Muslim money earned working in the World of War while the World of Peace wallows in abject poverty and near starvation for so many who could and should be fed by that money spend on genocidal weapons?

-- murderous weaspons launched out of the World of Peace by peace-loving loyal servants of Allah with the announced intention of slaughtering their COUSINS who also carry the bloodline of Abraham and who worshipped the God of Abraham while the Arabs descended from Ishmael were still worshipping the moon god and other Mesopotamean idols?

-- and why are Indian and African kids again being kidnapped and hauled off to the slave markets of Dar al Islam, since islam is such a perfect, God-fearing culture where social evils are not tolerated because brutality to humans -- including mutilation and murder of Allah-loving MUSLIMS who refuse to support imperial conquest and imam absolute POLITICAL power -- is forbidden by Allah?

-- and why is the violence that has destroyed so much of Dar al Islam being exported to nations like France and Britain and Australia and the US, so that nations which have enjoyed decades of peace and prosperity, which have fought very hard to make prosperity and freedom and personal happiness possible for even our poorest citizens, so that even our poorest THRIVE in Allah mandated CHARITY -- while the majority of the people living under islamic law and imam rule starve when Muslims are COMMANDED to charity for the poor they never really feed, never provide medical care, never provide decent job skill education opportunities, and don't even provide protection from packs of wild dogs?

The Bos'un

March 19th, 2009, 2:40 am

thank you rhet...

mark23

March 19th, 2009, 3:55 am