So...How would YOU teach this?

[AmericanSpirit]

One year I was working with 3rd grade teachers using music as a means to teach social studies. I figured I check the GPS standards out so I could figure out which ones I could teach with song.

Look what I found...

SS3CG2
Grade: 3
Description: SS3CG2 The student will describe how the historical figures in SS3H2a display positive character traits of cooperation, diligence, liberty, justice, tolerance, freedom of conscience and expression, and respect for and acceptance of authority.

SS3H2
Grade: 3
Description: SS3H2 The student will discuss the lives of Americans who expanded people's rights and freedoms in a democracy.
Elements:
a. Paul Revere (independence), Frederick Douglass (civil rights), Susan B. Anthony (women's rights), Mary McLeod Bethune (education), Franklin D. Roosevelt (New Deal and World War II), Eleanor Roosevelt (United Nations and human rights), Thurgood Marshall (civil rights), Lyndon B. Johnson (Great Society and voting rights), and Cesar Chavez (workers' rights).

:eh:
So...How do you teach kids how an almost complete list of rebels accepted authority?
:think:

[sgdp]

Ha. Nice catch.

It certainly makes me think....

[AmericanSpirit]

Ha. Nice catch.

It certainly makes me think....

I mean really...who writes these standards? Idiots?

[buflineks]

Paul Revere and "acceptance of authority"?

LMBO.

Cesar Chavez and "acceptance of authority"?

ROTFLMBO.

To be honest with you, I don't see why a person needs to incorporate "music" with history a.k.a. "social studies".

[AmericanSpirit]

Paul Revere and "acceptance of authority"?

LMBO.

Cesar Chavez and "acceptance of authority"?

ROTFLMBO.

To be honest with you, I don't see why a person needs to incorporate "music" with history a.k.a. "social studies".

Why not? Students like music better than social studies. Combing the two can be helpful. For example...learning the states and capitols? Learning the meaning and history of songs from the civil war or whatever.

It captures their attention and opens their minds to learning more about a subject even beyond the music. It works.

[Amallek]

You are really being unfair. You have mixed two lessons, and obviously the lesson on expanding people's rights has nothing to do with acceptance of authority.

On acceptance of authority the better example would be Bush and the expansion of presidential powers in the time of war.

[AmericanSpirit]

You are really being unfair. You have mixed two lessons, and obviously the lesson on expanding people's rights has nothing to do with acceptance of authority.

On acceptance of authority the better example would be Bush and the expansion of presidential powers in the time of war.

Nope that is not what is says. It would have said that.

[buflineks]

Why not? Students like music better than social studies. Combing the two can be helpful. For example...learning the states and capitols? Learning the meaning and history of songs from the civil war or whatever.

It captures their attention and opens their minds to learning more about a subject even beyond the music. It works.

Can you name me two songs from the civil war era other than the "Battle Hym of the Republic" and "Dixie"?

Honestly, this is why I have no desire to teach below college level.
I'm surprised that you are even dealing in social studies at that age. With the recent upswing in pushing for "math and science" I am honestly surprised. I know that my 5th grade daughter hasn't had a social studies class since before Christmas because the teachers were busy trying to make sure that everyone passed the state assessment test.

IMO, unless a person has a true passion for history, anything taught to them in K-12 is basic and will be forgotten in a span of ten years after they get out of high school.

[buflineks]

AS,

don't get me wrong. I am product of public education. My father taught public High School for 40 yrs.

If you are teaching 3rd graders or any other elementry school children, my hat is off to you. You have a job that can at times be trying, if not down right frustrating.

If what you are proposing works, I am in no position to tell you that you are wrong. I'm just a crotchety old man who is set in his ways. Please do not take anything I have posted as a criticism of you or the job you do.

[AmericanSpirit]

Can you name me two songs from the civil war era other than the "Battle Hym of the Republic" and "Dixie"?

Honestly, this is why I have no desire to teach below college level.
I'm surprised that you are even dealing in social studies at that age. With the recent upswing in pushing for "math and science" I am honestly surprised. I know that my 5th grade daughter hasn't had a social studies class since before Christmas because the teachers were busy trying to make sure that everyone passed the state assessment test.

IMO, unless a person has a true passion for history, anything taught to them in K-12 is basic and will be forgotten in a span of ten years after they get out of high school.

Battle Cry of Freedom and The Bonnie Blue Flag.
Also for added music around the time a few slave songs like Follow the Drinking Gourd or Wade in the Water.

Also the school was doing a recent push for social studies that year for 3rd graders. I don't ask why.

And music, because that is what I do. Teach Music. I personally have the preamble of the Constitution memorized because of a song in Elementary school and I remember stuff from elementary and I am sure you do to.

[AmericanSpirit]

AS,

don't get me wrong. I am product of public education. My father taught public High School for 40 yrs.

If you are teaching 3rd graders or any other elementry school children, my hat is off to you. You have a job that can at times be trying, if not down right frustrating.

If what you are proposing works, I am in no position to tell you that you are wrong. I'm just a crotchety old man who is set in his ways. Please do not take anything I have posted as a criticism of you or the job you do.

I am used to defending my job. Again I am a music teacher. So I am fine.

[Long Island Bob]

One year I was working with 3rd grade teachers using music as a means to teach social studies. I figured I check the GPS standards out so I could figure out which ones I could teach with song.

Look what I found...


:eh:
So...How do you teach kids how an almost complete list of rebels accepted authority?
:think:


figures.

the list includes
- Paul Revere,
- Fredrick Douglass,
and 8 people who are famous for their leftwing politics.

No inventors, no soldiers (except Paul Revere) no scientists, no right wingers, no business leaders no explorers.
Is it any wonder parents are fed up with public schools?


Anyway as to your question, with the exception of Paul Revere all of the above are known for working within the system.

e.g
Fredrick Douglass did NOT form a wandering vigilante milita that went around freeing slaves at gunpoint. He became a prominent member of several abolitionist societies, he gave numerous lectures and he founded a newspaper etc.

Mary McLeod Bethune founded schools and welfare groups and civil rights groups. She campaigned for the candidate of her choice (FDR) and became a close personal friend of Eleanor. she did not burn the flag or hold sit-ins or take up arms to shoot her opponents.

same deal with the others (except Paul Revere.)


Sometimes fighting the system is good but these were not people known for fightnig the system, they used the system and fought for change.

Sometimes "tearing down institutions" is good, but these people were known for building their own institutions.

Sometimes civil disobedience is good, but these were not people known for disobedience, civil or otherwise. They did not stage sit ins in places where they are not welcome. They did not break the rules and dare the authorities to arrest them.

btw (and in public school this next part should be de-emphasized)
nearly every one of the folks on the list were devoutly religious, used religion to gain recruits. Nearly every one of them felt and repeated often that their mission was doing God's work.

I am sure it is a coincidence, but much as the list excludes rightwingers, scientists, buisiness leaders etc., it also is curiously short on secular reformers.

[Long Island Bob]

Susan B. Anthony was part of the temperance movement


A look at the songs from the Victorian Temperance Movement and ...

The original Temperance songs used in Temperance Tantrums are almost as important as The Eternal Sword Temperance Union characters and their hilarious improvised rally activities. Originally performed in all seriousness, these anthems listed below (and others of this ilk) are now the basis for the production's tongue-in-cheek humor

Lips that Touch Liquor Will Never Touch Mine
Girls, Wait for a Temperance Man
Under the Anheuser Bush
Come Home, Father
Willie Has Signed the Pledge
The Price of a Drink

http://www.temperancetantrum.com/Temperance%20Songs.htm

Here's a website from a 6th grade music teacher who claims
"Songs were essential for César Chávez and the farmworkers to maintain a positive outlook, despite setbacks and violence they faced every day."Although the teacher does not provide evidence of his claim (that msic was an important partof chavez pro-labor anti-immigration movement, he DOES includes a list of links and songs
http://celebratingcesarchavez.homestead.com/music_musica.html

[PhantomPholly]

One year I was working with 3rd grade teachers using music as a means to teach social studies. I figured I check the GPS standards out so I could figure out which ones I could teach with song.

Look what I found...


:eh:
So...How do you teach kids how an almost complete list of rebels accepted authority?
:think:

It's easy. Start being straight with them about Greatness. Remind them that the Founders of our Constitution began with the concept that each individual is Sovereign, a state granted by our creator not by government, and that the Government exists to SERVE us, not the other way around.

We had the same issue in R.O.T.C. training. General Billy Mitchell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell#Post-war_advocate_of_air) disagreed strenuously with leadership following WW I about the future of warfare, arguing that air power would be the key to security. He gained notoriety and virtual banishment (to an inhospitable posting) for going around leaders who told him to "shut up" and speaking with the press.

Had he not stuck to his guns, we might well have lost WW II.

But, there is a price to pay - there is responsibility tied to individuality. When you are WRONG and buck the system, or RIGHT and fail to win, you will be both greatly disappointed and have grief heaped upon you. The Founding Fathers understood the inextricable link between Rights and Responsibilities, a lesson that has been lost on current day politicians.

"Authority" is merely honorary despite increasingly desperate attempts by politicians to convince us otherwise. They seek not Greatness, merely POWER - and in so seeking achieve merely mediocrity.

[PhantomPholly]

You are really being unfair. You have mixed two lessons, and obviously the lesson on expanding people's rights has nothing to do with acceptance of authority.

They are inextricably linked. We forget this at peril of our Liberty.

On acceptance of authority the better example would be Bush and the expansion of presidential powers in the time of war.

Bush did not expand a single Presidential power, so teaching them this would be to teach a lie.

If you wish to speak of unlimited expansion of government, you have only to watch the CHANGE that is taking place before your eyes.

[AmericanSpirit]

figures.

the list includes
- Paul Revere,
- Fredrick Douglass,
and 8 people who are famous for their leftwing politics.

No inventors, no soldiers (except Paul Revere) no scientists, no right wingers, no business leaders no explorers.
Is it any wonder parents are fed up with public schools?


Anyway as to your question, with the exception of Paul Revere all of the above are known for working within the system.

e.g
Fredrick Douglass did NOT form a wandering vigilante milita that went around freeing slaves at gunpoint. He became a prominent member of several abolitionist societies, he gave numerous lectures and he founded a newspaper etc.

Mary McLeod Bethune founded schools and welfare groups and civil rights groups. She campaigned for the candidate of her choice (FDR) and became a close personal friend of Eleanor. she did not burn the flag or hold sit-ins or take up arms to shoot her opponents.

same deal with the others (except Paul Revere.)


Sometimes fighting the system is good but these were not people known for fightnig the system, they used the system and fought for change.

Sometimes "tearing down institutions" is good, but these people were known for building their own institutions.

Sometimes civil disobedience is good, but these were not people known for disobedience, civil or otherwise. They did not stage sit ins in places where they are not welcome. They did not break the rules and dare the authorities to arrest them.

btw (and in public school this next part should be de-emphasized)
nearly every one of the folks on the list were devoutly religious, used religion to gain recruits. Nearly every one of them felt and repeated often that their mission was doing God's work.

I am sure it is a coincidence, but much as the list excludes rightwingers, scientists, buisiness leaders etc., it also is curiously short on secular reformers.

I'll admit the list is unbalanced and yeah they where left wingers...but that still didn't mean they "accepted authority".

[Army of 1]

Can you name me two songs from the civil war era other than the "Battle Hym of the Republic" and "Dixie"?

Honestly, this is why I have no desire to teach below college level.
I'm surprised that you are even dealing in social studies at that age. With the recent upswing in pushing for "math and science" I am honestly surprised. I know that my 5th grade daughter hasn't had a social studies class since before Christmas because the teachers were busy trying to make sure that everyone passed the state assessment test.

IMO, unless a person has a true passion for history, anything taught to them in K-12 is basic and will be forgotten in a span of ten years after they get out of high school.

Are you serious? I think you are way off in what social studies is.
Do you know the name of your city or state? How about the capitol? How about who the President is?
I guess you don't know Abe Lincoln or the Civil War or Geo Washington or the Revolutionary War? Pretty sure you picked that up in grade school.
Now your student may not have a Social Studies class, I would be willing to bet that have had some reading unit that dealt with social topics. I can't believe that the school let the election go by and not mention anything about it!
Geography, Government and History(and others) all fall under social studies.

just for note there is more to music than the songs of that time. how about a type of dance or use some of the historical period instruments that were used to make the songs. a 3rd grade unit on historical music does not need to political or really do anything other than expose them to something new.

[Long Island Bob]

I'll admit the list is unbalanced and yeah they where left wingers...but that still didn't mean they "accepted authority".

Actually (except paul revere) they did.

the list of folks cited isa list of poeple who were NOT rebels (and of course they were not scientists, explorers, etc. etc they were leftwing ideologues but that is beside the point.)

It is a list of people who were REFORMERS.

As Rush used to say (before he started suing drugs he was oneof my favorites) Words mean things.

To say that these people worked for change does NOT mean they were rebels, and does not mean they had a lack of respect for authority.

Except for Paul Revere, what they did was to petition the authorities and to organize groups and newspapers etc. to petition the authorities.

reb⋅el 
1. a person who refuses allegiance to, resists, or rises in arms against the government or ruler of his or her country.
2. a person who resists any authority, control, or tradition.


re⋅form⋅er 
1. a person devoted to bringing about reform, as in politics or society.
2. (initial capital letter) any of the leaders of the Reformation


I am NOT saying that "rebels are bad" and "reformers are good."


It is possible to think "i need to work for change " and still respect authority.

It is possible to think "I need to work for change" and not think "the whole system sucks and I'm going to move to Canada."


I am saying that, except for Paul Revere the list is comprised of people who by today's standards wer very very very respectful of authority and felt taht change can be acheived via repecting authority and building organiozations that help convince the authorties to do so (except in FDR's case he actually BECAME the authority.)

Imagine 20 college "radicals."
Group A.
Ten of them say "we must tear down the system, have sit ins class strikes etc. the Adminsitration is our enemy. we must reform by tearing down."

Group B.
The other ten say "we must get elected into student government, form student unions, create our wn newspapers and in this way work WITHIN the system for reform. we msut reform by being part of."

One of 2-3 common denominators of everyone on the list (except Paul Revere) is that they were all Goup B types.

[Harmonious]

Can you name me two songs from the civil war era other than the "Battle Hym of the Republic" and "Dixie"?

"When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again"

There are a couple about John Brown.

"Jump Down, Turn Around, Pick a Bale of Cotton"

Those are the ones I thought of on my own. (I have a thing for music, and when I was in fifth grade, my music teacher had the entire fifth grade put on a music revue: "American History: The Way It Was, Through Music.")

If you want to know more, you can find a list here (http://www.pdmusic.org/civilwar.html).

THIS (http://mariah.stonemarche.org/livhis/music.htm) one links to lyrics.

[buflineks]

I guess you don't know Abe Lincoln or the Civil War or Geo Washington or the Revolutionary War? Pretty sure you picked that up in grade school. .

Nope.

Picked that up around the dinner table. Of course not everyone has an father with an MA in history. I knew about those things before I even went to school.

[Army of 1]

so I guess we should skip social studies for every grade school student and just have them eat at your house..
ok, you may have learned about those things, but as you say not everyone has a dad with an MA. the point is/was kids are given some important basic knowledge at that time. Not everyone has your environment, I don't see many families discussing this topics. kids should have an idea of who these people are and what these events were.

[ben41281]

I mean really...who writes these standards? Idiots?

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

[pubschteacher]

Nope that is not what is says. It would have said that.

I had a teacher friend in Georgia research this for me, this is what he sent. This is the last year that the standard will read the way you found it. What do you think of the change?

Original Standard
SS3CG2 The student will describe how the historical figures in SS3H2a display positive character traits of cooperation, diligence, liberty, justice, tolerance, freedom of conscience and expression, and respect for and acceptance of authority.

Approved Change

SS3CG2 The student will discuss the character of different historical figures in SS3H2a.

Describe how the different historical figures in SS3H2a display positive character traits of cooperation, diligence, courage, and leadership.
Explain how the historical figures in SS3H2a used positive character traits to support their beliefs in liberty, justice, tolerance, and freedom of conscience and expression.
Explain how the historical figures in SS3H2a chose when to respect and accept authority.

[pubschteacher]

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

Well, in Colorado, it was a a panel of curriculum and assessment experts and then

"The Legislature allocated over half a million dollars to facilitate statewide consensus for what Colorado students should know and be able to do. Over 6500 Coloradans offered over 10,000 comments during 50 public meetings, producing public ownership and enthusiasm for students to master such standards."

I wonder if it was the same in your state and if so, did you bother to attend any of those meetings and make your voice be heard? I doubt it.

[buflineks]

so I guess we should skip social studies for every grade school student and just have them eat at your house..
ok, you may have learned about those things, but as you say not everyone has a dad with an MA. the point is/was kids are given some important basic knowledge at that time. Not everyone has your environment, I don't see many families discussing this topics. kids should have an idea of who these people are and what these events were.

"Ambiguity is an important of the legend of Paul Revere, and a key to its continuing vitality. The story has been told so many different ways that when Americans repeat it to their children, they are not certian which parts of the tale are true, or if any part of it acutally happened."

Fischer, David Hackett. Paul Revere's Ride. Oxford University Press. New York. 1994. xii-xiv.

How many children are taught about Dawes? I would suspect that most never even mention Dr. Prescott. How many children know that Revere was captured by the British?

You mention Lincoln. How many were taught that he was a racist when he took office. That during the campaign he was in favor of deporting all the African-American Slaves back to Africa? How many Children are taught that when he signed the "Emancipation Proclomation" that Slavery was still legal in the North, and it wasn't until the passage of the 13th Amendment during Reconstruction that the Northern slaves were finally freed?

George Washington..... How many people are taught that he basically started the Seven Years War (French and Indian War) single handedly?

I agree that children need to be taught History. (note I don't use the words "Social Studies", that is a lefover from Hempel.)

But the way it has been taught since the late 60's is ridicules.

My child is given a "social studies" assignment in her fifth grade class. It basically involves going to the computer, entering an individuals name on (groan:rolleyes: ) wiki-pedia, and then she prints it off and presents it to here teacher with a paragraph summery.

I have seen kids in my college classes who have absolutely no idea as to how to go to a library and find sources for research. It's so bad that at my university, two days are spent in the lower level methodology classes teaching them.

I have listened to kids complain about having to buy books and actually have assignments from them. They come from schools that give all assignments on computer.

I don't blam the teachers. They are responding to orders given by Administrators, created by some "genius" who is too enthralled with technology.

In fact, with the emphasis on "Math and Science", "social studies" has become an even poorer cousin than Phys. Ed. when it comes to priorities of teaching our children. In fact, in my experiences, "Fine Arts" (music and "art") are now valued more than "social studies".

But boy, I'll tell you, every Feb, our children are indoctrinated as to who Dr. Martin Luther King is. They learn who Che Gueverra (?sp) is. They are lead to believe that FDR brought our nation out of a depression with is "New Deal".

The problem is that most elementry and secondary historical education has been overwhelmed in the last 3 decades by "social historians." Children need to be taught in the "Deconstructional" methodology. And they need to be held to standards and those standards need to be enforced.

okay, I've ranted enough. I will remove my soap box.

[Rurudyne]

One year I was working with 3rd grade teachers using music as a means to teach social studies. I figured I check the GPS standards out so I could figure out which ones I could teach with song.

Look what I found...


:eh:
So...How do you teach kids how an almost complete list of rebels accepted authority?
:think:
Hey, it's not like they're asking you to teach kids the fervent anti-drug message behind Cheech and Chong. ;)

[ben41281]

Well, in Colorado, it was a a panel of curriculum and assessment experts and then

"The Legislature allocated over half a million dollars to facilitate statewide consensus for what Colorado students should know and be able to do. Over 6500 Coloradans offered over 10,000 comments during 50 public meetings, producing public ownership and enthusiasm for students to master such standards."

I wonder if it was the same in your state and if so, did you bother to attend any of those meetings and make your voice be heard? I doubt it.

Thankfully no, I don't go to them. Seeing how my children go to private school. Thank God, I wouldn't want to have that albatross on my neck!

[grhayes]

One year I was working with 3rd grade teachers using music as a means to teach social studies. I figured I check the GPS standards out so I could figure out which ones I could teach with song.

Look what I found...


:eh:
So...How do you teach kids how an almost complete list of rebels accepted authority?
:think:

First teach them what respect is and that it has to be earned. That authority has to be questioned. Respecting the authority and agreeing with it or recognizing the authority are all different.

I could claim I have authority to do anything but no one should respect that authority until it has been proven I have the authority and under good cause and seek not to abuse it.

Rebels believe the authority a person claims is not true which is why they fight against them.