As a Christian do you find others puting you in a box?

[Values]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?

[RayMan]

It seems that some folk expect me to be more intolerant of other's views on things religious than I actually am.

[TaylorW65]

After going to Christian Fundamentalist churches for many years (that was a long while ago) I must confess I do have a stereotypical view of them.

I am a very liberal unorthodox Christian, what Bishop Spong calls a "believer in exile" I find I get stereotyped too.

I think it would be much easier if I were a Buddhist (I love Buddhism) or some other non-Christian. I find Christians more tolerant to non-Christians than they are to other believers who have different ideas from them.

[Thank you Troops]

We are all put in a box sooner or later.

[Marleysdaddy]

It seems that some folk expect me to be more intolerant of other's views on things religious than I actually am.

That's sad...

[TaylorW65]

We are all put in a box sooner or later.

Or an urn. :)

[Values]

After going to Christian Fundamentalist churches for many years (that was a long while ago) I must confess I do have a stereotypical view of them.

I am a very liberal unorthodox Christian, what Bishop Spong calls a "believer in exile" I find I get stereotyped too.

I think it would be much easier if I were a Buddhist (I love Buddhism) or some other non-Christian. I find Christians more tolerant to non-Christians than they are to other believers who have different ideas from them.

I consider myself fundamentalist but it may difere from you and other's views of it. I would rather answer questions from others and ask my own before making determinations as to their beliefs.

What determines very liberal unorthodox from othodox in your view?

[RayMan]

That's sad...

Yeah. I really need to diss other people's beliefs or lack of same more. ;)

[TaylorW65]

I consider myself fundamentalist but it may difere from you and other's views of it. I would rather answer questions from others and ask my own before making determinations as to their beliefs.

What determines very liberal unorthodox from othodox in your view?

Well, I can only speak from my point of view.

I don't see Jesus as divine.

I don't think he came here to appease an angry God and pay for the sins of the world.

I don't believe the resurrection of Jesus was the resuscitation of a corpse.

I don't take the Bible literally.
Those are some basics.

[Values]

Well, I can only speak from my point of view.

I don't see Jesus as divine.

I don't think he came here to appease an angry God and pay for the sins of the world.

I don't believe the resurrection of Jesus was the resuscitation of a corpse.

I don't take the Bible literally.
Those are some basics.

Definately different than my thoughts.
Who was Jesus if not devine?
I don't think anyone takes the Bible as a literal truth through and through, otherwise Jesus would be a lamb.
There are many ways to interpret the Bible as we know from all the different churches we have.
If you don't see Jesus as devine how do you still see yourself as a Christian?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?

I usually find the latter group guilty of this more often than the former group.

[TaylorW65]

Definately different than my thoughts.
Who was Jesus if not devine?
I don't think anyone takes the Bible as a literal truth through and through, otherwise Jesus would be a lamb.
There are many ways to interpret the Bible as we know from all the different churches we have.
If you don't see Jesus as devine how do you still see yourself as a Christian?

A Christian is a follower of Jesus and his teachings. Since I don't take the Bible literally I view the Bible, specifically the Gospels, on how the community of followers of Jesus viewed him metaphorically. In that way, for me Jesus is an expression of divine Love and he is an example of how to experience God and live a life grounded in universal spiritual truths. The truths of which Jesus spoke of are profoundly true though not literally true.

[Values]

A Christian is a follower of Jesus and his teachings. Since I don't take the Bible literally I view the Bible, specifically the Gospels, on how the community of followers of Jesus viewed him metaphorically. In that way, for me Jesus is an expression of divine Love and he is an example of how to experience God and live a life grounded in universal spiritual truths. The truths of which Jesus spoke of are profoundly true though not literally true.

The Gospels distinctly have Jesus saying he is God. How does this fit your views?
When you say profoundly true but not literally, which passages are you speaking of?

[TaylorW65]

The Gospels distinctly have Jesus saying he is God. How does this fit your views?
When you say profoundly true but not literally, which passages are you speaking of?
I have heard people arguing for and against the divinity of Christ and both sides use scripture to make their point.

To many liberal Biblical historians the gospels are a metaphorical telling of how the early Christians experienced Jesus. The gospels were not meant to be read as an historical biography of Jesus.

Take the Genesis creation accounts for example. Each ancient culture had their own creation stories. The Jews had theirs. I do not believe those accounts are factual stories of history as it happened they are metaphorical stories to tell the myth of how the Jewish people came into existence and it also tried to explain how they see their relationship with God. In the telling of those myths they do end up speaking universal spiritual truths such as:

man is a finite creature prone to sin unless they are on a path of moral and spiritual development.

The Garden of Eden story can best be seen in the light of a metaphor for our human and spiritual development. When we are infants and children we are in a state of innocence, but as we grow older we become aware of the knowledge of good and evil or that we are imperfect beings, and we have left the garden of innocence, never to return. So we set about on our spiritual journey of knowing ourselves and learning who we are, who God is and how we need to journey back to him.

The Bible is full of truths about humanity and they can be seen from a non-literal interpretation of the Bible.

The Bible is similar to all tales and myths that tell truths without having to be factually true.

[Values]

I have heard people arguing for and against the divinity of Christ and both sides use scripture to make their point.

To many liberal Biblical historians the gospels are a metaphorical telling of how the early Christians experienced Jesus. The gospels were not meant to be read as an historical biography of Jesus.

Take the Genesis creation accounts for example. Each ancient culture had their own creation stories. The Jews had theirs. I do not believe those accounts are factual stories of history as it happened they are metaphorical stories to tell the myth of how the Jewish people came into existence and it also tried to explain how they see their relationship with God. In the telling of those myths they do end up speaking universal spiritual truths such as:

man is a finite creature prone to sin unless they are on a path of moral and spiritual development.

The Garden of Eden story can best be seen in the light of a metaphor for our human and spiritual development. When we are infants and children we are in a state of innocence, but as we grow older we become aware of the knowledge of good and evil or that we are imperfect beings, and we have left the garden of innocence, never to return. So we set about on our spiritual journey of knowing ourselves and learning who we are, who God is and how we need to journey back to him.

The Bible is full of truths about humanity and they can be seen from a non-literal interpretation of the Bible.

The Bible is similar to all tales and myths that tell truths without having to be factually true.

If the Bible isn't factually true why believe in Jesus at all?

[TaylorW65]

If the Bible isn't factually true why believe in Jesus at all?

I thought I answered that but I will state it again.

I do not feel we have to believe in Jesus means we must believe certain things about Jesus.

Let me quote Marcus Borg who says these things better than I can.

The Post-Easter Jesus is the Jesus of Christian experience and tradition.

How we think about Jesus will very much affect what we think the Christian life is most centrally about.

To take Jesus seriously, as the image of God, to see the historical Jesus as having a spirit dimension, wisdom dimension, and political dimension leads to a vision of the Christian life with those same three dimensions.

A life centered in the spirit is centered in God, in the same spirit Jesus knew in his life.

God is all around us and has been in relationship with us whether or not we are aware of it.

A life that flows from taking Jesus seriously as a spirit person is centered in spirituality: becoming conscious and intentional about a relationship with God.

[Mikko]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?
I say that (with all due respect and in my opinion, of course, and in full acknowledgement that this statement applies to many belief systems besides Chrisianity) one who adheres to a belief system that presumes to know, on the basis of another's view of the Deity, what that (other) person's relationship to God is, is on shaky ground when complaining about being "put into a box.":)

[Mikko]

If the Bible isn't factually true why believe in Jesus at all?
Because there's little actual relationship between the two issues.:)

[Mikko]

The Gospels distinctly have Jesus saying he is God.
Really?
How does this fit your views?
I'll ask you: If he says he is God, then why does he pray to God?
When you say profoundly true but not literally, which passages are you speaking of?
All of them.

[archangelo]

Or an urn. :)

"Christian Martyrs: We don't collect treasure in Heaven the old fashioned way. We urn it."

[Koushi Shinigami]

Or an urn. :)

:))


Not me. I'm planning on having my ashes fired from a cannon into a river.

[TaylorW65]

"Christian Martyrs: We don't collect treasure in Heaven the old fashioned way. We urn it."

LOl! That was a good one.

[archangelo]

:))


Not me. I'm planning on having my ashes fired from a cannon into a river.

That sounds like fun! I'm planning to have my mortal remains disguised as a fancy beef dish and served at a White House luncheon...but that's off topic. Sorry...:angel:

[Koushi Shinigami]

That sounds like fun! I'm planning to have my mortal remains disguised as a fancy beef dish and served at a White House luncheon...but that's off topic. Sorry...:angel:

+1 for creativity.

[Values]

I say that (with all due respect and in my opinion, of course, and in full acknowledgement that this statement applies to many belief systems besides Chrisianity) one who adheres to a belief system that presumes to know, on the basis of another's view of the Deity, what that (other) person's relationship to God is, is on shaky ground when complaining about being "put into a box.":)

What you think or don't think does not even come near shaking my Faith.
I see you pick here and pick there but why come to this forum and not actually engage?
What do you have that you would like to share in reference to this OP?
Do you find that others put your beliefs in a box? Do you do it to others?
C'mon, share a little about Mikko and your inner workings.

[RayMan]

That sounds like fun! I'm planning to have my mortal remains disguised as a fancy beef dish and served at a White House luncheon...but that's off topic. Sorry...:angel:

With a nice chianti and a side of fava beans. Yummy. Of course you probably wouldn't want them to serve you on a Friday. :whistle:

[terri910]

With a nice chianti and a side of fava beans. Yummy. Of course you probably wouldn't want them to serve you on a Friday. :whistle::eek::eek:

[Jíbaro]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?

Yes.
The worse of it all, is finding Atheists project their own faults and debased proclivities on you.
Nothing wakes you up more, than to find a shrieking Atheist accuse you of being Torquemada, and the Atheist Goon himself goes and hires violent men to tail you and do you harm.
But, on the other side of the coin, seeing God protect you from such a Goon, and then reward him in kind, is awesome to say the least :pray:.

[Semi-Sweet]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?

Jesus was misunderstood even by those who were close to Him, and he was without fault. Knowing what He endured, and what His apostles endured, I don't think that we should be overly concerned about what others may think or say about us.

1 Cor. 6:7. . ."Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?"

The boxes only exist in their mind anyway. They are little bitty blue boxes.

[Mikko]

Jesus was misunderstood even by those who were close to Him, and he was without fault. Knowing what He endured, and what His apostles endured, I don't think that we should be overly concerned about what others may think or say about us.

1 Cor. 6:7. . ."Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?"

The boxes only exist in their mind anyway. They are little bitty blue boxes.
There are plenty of "little bitty blue boxes" to go around.;)

[captusa]

If the Bible isn't factually true why believe in Jesus at all?

Excellent point.

[terri910]

There are plenty of "little bitty blue boxes" to go around.;)
But....is there enough of what goes into those little bitty blue boxes?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a355/terri910/Tiffanyboxes.jpg
(When I think of little blue boxes, I just happen to think of Tiffany boxes. So sue me!)

[Values]

There ain't a box big enough to put me in, dude!:)

My inner workings are vividly displayed in my posts, and I'm not "picking here or there." I stated that your belief system puts those who don't share it in a box as much as theirs does yours. I could care less whether I shake your faith or not. That's not my aim. My aim is to help you remove the beam from your eye so that you can see clearly enough to help others remove the mote from theirs. C'mon, how about a little gratitude, here?:)

Ha, phew, that was funny.
You may see a box around those I talk to but I do not, I ask questions and truly want to know the response. This is called learning and not prejudging.

[TaylorW65]

The gospels are an account of the life and ministry of Christ be it history or otherwise. The truth is always there. Compare the gospels very interesting study and the literature approach will have you understand more. I took a course in the synoptic gospels very interesting and the last chapter of the book was a study on Christology most interesting. Any study to bring one in closer relationship to Christ is good. The open Bible in the introduction of each book includes the theme of the book, the key verses, why each book has the name it does, in other words a literature approach also the estimated date of writing.

One needs more than basic!!

Carlene

But what is the point? I say this not to try to be argumentative but in a practical way. I used to go to Bible studies two to three times a week until I got all of the doctrines in my head. I new all of the correct way of believing and all the proper theology but it really didn't help my life or relationship with God one iota. In the end I felt all that had happened was that I was told what to think and what to believe. It was like I was being spoon fed and not allowed to think for myself.

I also had some serious problems which i will not go into and I found my indoctrination actually made my problems worse. Thank God, I do mean God, lead me away from Fundamentalist Christianity and into places and people that could actually help.

But in the end all of the Biblical studies didn't work.

[doodle5]

I'm not talking about any denomination but a good Bible study if interested. I enjoyed the study but for some it would not be for them.

Glad you have it in your heart and head, you are ahead of the pack!!
You are more stable.

Carlene

[Mikko]

Ha, phew, that was funny.
Thank you.You may see a box around those I talk to but I do not, I ask questions and truly want to know the response. This is called learning and not prejudging.With all due respect, when you say that you know where atheists stand on the subject of faith, you are putting them in a box, aren't you?

[Mikko]

But....is there enough of what goes into those little bitty blue boxes?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a355/terri910/Tiffanyboxes.jpg
(When I think of little blue boxes, I just happen to think of Tiffany boxes. So sue me!)
Enough, and twleve baskets to spare.:)

[Gidon]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?


Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.

1Jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you

Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.


I don't expect them to like me. That has been made clear by the Boss.


Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


These are haters of God. They revel in their own sins. Society has been conditioned as such that no one is responsible for anything they do and everyone has the right to feel good about themselves. From homosexuality to adultery to rape, theft, even murder. Look in the court system.

Our very existence makes then uncomfortable.


So do we go and get in somebodys face? No

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:



Many church leaders seek acceptance from the world. That is asinine. They are motivated by something other than God. If yours is in this process, then leave it and find another one.


Who will you stand with in the end?


Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

[RayMan]

Enough, and twleve baskets to spare.:)

You passin' out fish sandwiches?

[Mikko]

You passin' out fish sandwiches?
I'm not that adept.:)

[HardHammer]

A Christian is a follower of Jesus and his teachings. Since I don't take the Bible literally I view the Bible, specifically the Gospels, on how the community of followers of Jesus viewed him metaphorically. In that way, for me Jesus is an expression of divine Love and he is an example of how to experience God and live a life grounded in universal spiritual truths. The truths of which Jesus spoke of are profoundly true though not literally true.

I see this concept as making Jesus a good story teller and not the Savior of the World. And if He is not meant to be taken literally, then we should all eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

IMHO, this is just short of a Eckhart Tolley "Living in the now' love fest.

[Koushi Shinigami]

I see this concept as making Jesus a good story teller and not the Savior of the World. And if He is not meant to be taken literally, then we should all eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

IMHO, this is just short of a Eckhart Tolley "Living in the now' love fest.

If Jesus was just a good story teller, is that the story that he told?

[TaylorW65]

I see this concept as making Jesus a good story teller and not the Savior of the World. And if He is not meant to be taken literally, then we should all eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

IMHO, this is just short of a Eckhart Tolley "Living in the now' love fest.

So is it all or nothing for you? If we can't take Jesus literally, in truth those who wrote about him, then just toss him out completely? I never said that. It's not all or nothing for me.

Living in the here and now is never bad advice. Keep your head where your feet are at.

[Mikko]

I see this concept as making Jesus a good story teller and not the Savior of the World. And if He is not meant to be taken literally, then we should all eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.
I disagree. The fact that Jesus wouldn't be taken literally has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a God exists whose laws should be followed. Further, even if it were proved that a God doesn't exist, the only people who would use that as and excuse to turn to hedonism and eat, drink and be merry would be those who need the fear of a punishing deity to motivate them to live moral lives. The good, moral atheists of the world would continue right on being good, moral people.
IMHO, this is just short of a Eckhart Tolley "Living in the now' love fest.
With all due respect, the teachings of Eckhart Tolle, which are simply a repackaging of the Perennial Philosophy, are the furthest thing from the promoting of a "love fest" possible. They teach personal responsibility to a Being greater than oneself.:)
ETA: Read the 6th chapter of Matthew, especially "sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Jesus and Eckhart seem to be on the same page re living in the now.:)

[Koushi Shinigami]

I see this concept as making Jesus a good story teller and not the Savior of the World. And if He is not meant to be taken literally....

"Gouge out your eye"
"Cut off your hand"
"Give up all you have and follow me"
"This is my body, this is my blood"

[Marleysdaddy]

I put all Christians in one box - the box labeled


'People who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ'



Go farther than that, and there are so many different doctrines and denominations that you are likely to make a few mistaken assumptions.

[TaylorW65]

I put all Christians in one box - the box labeled


'People who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ'



Go farther than that, and there are so many different doctrines and denominations that you are likely to make a few mistaken assumptions.

I like your way of putting it! I may have to borrow that. :)

[Mikko]

I put all Christians in one box - the box labeled


'People who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ'



Go farther than that, and there are so many different doctrines and denominations that you are likely to make a few mistaken assumptions.
It's also people who accept the definition of "the Christ" that was introduced by Christianity. "Christ"is the Anglicization of the Greek translation of the word "messiah" (itself an Anglicization of the Hebrew word "meschiach" [sp]), which simply means "anointed one." There were several anointed ones in the history of Israel. The Christian meaning of "the Christ" was totally different from the Hebrew meaning of "anointed one.":)

[Marleysdaddy]

It's also people who accept the definition of "the Christ" that was introduced by Chrisitnaity [sic]. "Christ"is the anglicization of the greek translation of the word "messiah" (itself an anglicization of the Hebrew word "meschiach" [sp]), which simply means "anointed one." There were several anointed ones in the history of Israel. The Christian meaning of "the Christ" was totally different from the Hebrew meaning of "anointed one.":)

Yes...thank you for adding that clarification.

[RayMan]

I put all Christians in one box - the box labeled


'People who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ'



Go farther than that, and there are so many different doctrines and denominations that you are likely to make a few mistaken assumptions.

And then there are those of us who believe that Jesus of Nazareth IS the Christ. :mrgreen:

[Marleysdaddy]

And then there are those of us who believe that Jesus of Nazareth IS the Christ. :mrgreen:

Touché

[RayMan]

Touché

I'm just fussy like that.

[Marleysdaddy]

I'm just fussy like that.

I would expect no less from a guy who idolizes Homer Simpson and Monty Python :razz:

[Gem]

Do you find that when speaking on Faith, those who aren't Christian (and even some of those who are) tend to have a prejudged idea of how or what you believe?
I find that I often gets in the way of true dialog.
What say you?


Naa, nobody puts me in a box.
Takes more than a box to hold me when it comes to my believes

:dance:

[Mikko]

Yes...thank you for adding that clarification.

My distinct pleasure.:)

[free2B]

The Gospels distinctly have Jesus saying he is God. How does this fit your views?
When you say profoundly true but not literally, which passages are you speaking of?

where are the passages in the Gospels that have Jesus distinctly saying he is God Jesus seems always to refer to God as the Father, this is how Paul explains it:
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

[RayMan]

I would expect no less from a guy who idolizes Homer Simpson and Monty Python :razz:

Does go a long way towards pointing out my superior intelligence and scientific know-how. :whistle:

[free2B]

monty python has scientific knowhow:rolleyes: