Uh, Barry - China's back.

[MrShotShot]

Makes me think of my posts over the past few years stating that once the Olympics were over, we'd see the rebirth of an aggressive China.

She's baaaaccckkkk.



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Pentagon said Monday that Chinese ships harassed a U.S. surveillance ship Sunday in the South China Sea in the latest of several instances of "increasingly aggressive conduct" in the past week.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/09/us.navy.china/index.html

[snooter511]

These kind of things happen all the time when ships from competing nations come into contact. I don't think China itself is threatening our Navy.

[E7ALR]

These kind of things happen all the time when ships from competing nations come into contact. I don't think China itself is threatening our Navy.Yes, they happen when nations try to declare international waters as their territorial waters.

Apparently this action started on Wednesday, covering several incidents, including actions by a Chinese Navy Frigate. Sounds like time for a US Destroyer to cruise the same path.

Also, I guess that Chinese Navy Frigate was a rouge.

[MrShotShot]

These kind of things happen all the time when ships from competing nations come into contact. I don't think China itself is threatening our Navy.

So did you also think that China itself wasn't threatening our surveilance aircraft back in 2001?

[Amallek]

These kind of things happen all the time when ships from competing nations come into contact. I don't think China itself is threatening our Navy.

Careful there Snooter, loose lips sink ships.

[rhet 2]

For better than 5 decades we have ignored one of the most brutal and aggressive bunch of thugs on earth.

Sooner or later, the thugs get big enough to bite us on the ass.

[Celtic Pax]

Looks like the Chicken little in Chief has been absent from his constitutional duties in regards to China AND N. Korea lately. Anyone see any Bam Bam remarks etc. on either situation? Is Bam Bam so hell bent on screwing the country economically that he is ignoring the threats from Red China AND N. Korea?

[Safiel]

I think Chinese ascendancy may come sooner than I had previously thought. I had figured by 2030. It may come as early as 2020, just 11 short years from now. It will come. The U.S.'s days at the top of the hill are coming to an end. Like the ancient empires, Rome, Byzantium, Ottoman, Napoleonic France and the British Empire, the rise and dominance was followed by a decay and fall. The U.S. is in the terminal stages of the "decay" phase. The fall from the top is inevitable. It was fun while it lasted.

The current administration will likely only accelerate the arrival of the end.

Not to say the U.S. will go away completely as a world power. We will just be relegated to the peanut gallery with England and France.

[MrShotShot]

Looks like the Chicken little in Chief has been absent from his constitutional duties in regards to China AND N. Korea lately. Anyone see any Bam Bam remarks etc. on either situation? Is Bam Bam so hell bent on screwing the country economically that he is ignoring the threats from Red China AND N. Korea?

See that's where you're wrong. I think someone in his administration wrote them a letter or something. :rolleyes:

[wonderingrover]

And the real clincher is that the US has now basically mortgaged itself to China. It could make life interesting if they decide to call in all those loans.

[Reev]

See that's where you're wrong. I think someone in his administration wrote them a letter or something. :rolleyes:

am I the only one who feels like the US has become a joke?

[E7ALR]

The ship in question is specificially designed to collect underwater sound data in support of anti-submarine operations. That means it makes recordings of noise from submarines while they are underway and submerged.

Sounds like the Chinese navy was conducting some sort of sea trials or exercise with one of their new subs, maybe a Type 904 SSBN.

Key note is that the Chinese tried to grapple the towed passive sonar array. There was something going on that they didn't want us to record.

[E7ALR]

am I the only one who feels like the US has become a joke?No, just time to up the bet. Have a US Frigate hovering just over the horizan to the East of the collection platform. Next time the Chinese Navy comes out have the Frigate close to visible range and ask why they are messing with a USNS Ship in international waters.

[RTchoke]

The ship in question is specificially designed to collect underwater sound data in support of anti-submarine operations. That means it makes recordings of noise from submarines while they are underway and submerged.

Sounds like the Chinese navy was conducting some sort of sea trials or exercise with one of their new subs, maybe a Type 904 SSBN.

Key note is that the Chinese tried to grapple the towed passive sonar array. There was something going on that they didn't want us to record.

Question for you............or anybody for that matter. I understand this is a surveillance ship. This is a Navy ship right? If so, why are they unarmed? Shouldn't they have something to defend themselves with even if they are mostly civilians?

Fire hoses are a little lame. :neutral:

[rhet 2]

No, just time to up the bet. Have a US Frigate hovering just over the horizan to the East of the collection platform. Next time the Chinese Navy comes out have the Frigate close to visible range and ask why they are messing with a USNS Ship in international waters.

Are we ready to have the Chinese start a shooting war?

That's calling their bluff -- and if they think they'll win by standing tall, we'll see some sailors dead.

I'm not opposed to the tactic. Sometimes you just have to do what is Right instead of what is Convenient -- and damned the consequences.

IF we're prepared for the possibility that they will call our bluff and go openly violent.

Which is why that surveillance ship was NOT protected: we're not psychologically strong enough to risk open and unrestricted conflict.

Which is why the Chinese played their own stupid little game: they know damned good and well we're a bunch of yellow-bellied HUFF AND PUFF bluffers.

They DID call our bluff on this one.

And those fire hoses were PERFECT -- we didn't lose the game by starting a shooting war -- and the Chinese didn't get what they wanted -- which was to see the US Navy tuck tail and run.

Now, if the Usurper just has sense enough to DEMAND an apology and back down from the Chinese aggressors or they see the FULL power of the US Navy take out their precious new and untrained imperialist forces AND LOSE THEIR AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN MARKETS, to see their entire economy crash around their damned humanity hating ears.

But, we know the THRICE DAMNED FOOLS in Washington don't have the guts to confront Chinese imperialism, don't we?

The Navy did BEAUTIFULLY.

It's Washington and the Political WEASELS who threw their courage and dedication to duty into the trash bins of political greed.

[E7ALR]

Question for you............or anybody for that matter. I understand this is a surveillance ship. This is a Navy ship right? If so, why are they unarmed? Shouldn't they have something to defend themselves with even if they are mostly civilians?

Fire hoses are a little lame. :neutral:
Its not a Man of War, its a specialized support ship, part of the Military Sea Lift Command under the US Navy. War Ships carry the title USS before their name and are considered commissioned vessels. MSC ships carry the title USNS (United States Naval Ship). During peac time they are not armed, but can be armed, if deemed necessary, during time of war. The crews are Department of the Navy Civilian employees, with some attached active duty personnel in special positions. Navy gun crews could be assigned, along with weapons.

[RTchoke]

Its not a Man of War, its a specialized support ship, part of the Military Sea Lift Command under the US Navy. War Ships carry the title USS before their name and are considered commissioned vessels. MSC ships carry the title USNS (United States Naval Ship). During peac time they are not armed, but can be armed, if deemed necessary, during time of war. The crews are Department of the Navy Civilian employees, with some attached active duty personnel in special positions. Navy gun crews could be assigned, along with weapons.

Thank you.

[E7ALR]

Are we ready to have the Chinese start a shooting war?

That's calling their bluff -- and if they think they'll win by standing tall, we'll see some sailors dead.

I'm not opposed to the tactic. Sometimes you just have to do what is Right instead of what is Convenient -- and damned the consequences.

IF we're prepared for the possibility that they will call our bluff and go openly violent.

Which is why that surveillance ship was NOT protected: we're not psychologically strong enough to risk open and unrestricted conflict.

Which is why the Chinese played their own stupid little game: they know damned good and well we're a bunch of yellow-bellied HUFF AND PUFF bluffers.

They DID call our bluff on this one.

And those fire hoses were PERFECT -- we didn't lose the game by starting a shooting war -- and the Chinese didn't get what they wanted -- which was to see the US Navy tuck tail and run.

Now, if the Usurper just has sense enough to DEMAND an apology and back down from the Chinese aggressors or they see the FULL power of the US Navy take out their precious new and untrained imperialist forces AND LOSE THEIR AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN MARKETS, to see their entire economy crash around their damned humanity hating ears.

But, we know the THRICE DAMNED FOOLS in Washington don't have the guts to confront Chinese imperialism, don't we?

The Navy did BEAUTIFULLY.

It's Washington and the Political WEASELS who threw their courage and dedication to duty into the trash bins of political greed.The Chinese's next step is to cause a collision with one of these vessels, or to board and seize it. One of the US Navy's primary missions is to ensure freedom of the seas for US vessels. That means making sure that only fools (who will act so no matter what you do) challange the presence and passage of a US vessel in international waters. The reality of this is that every once and a while the Commander of a US Man of War must bring his vessel along side of someone else's man of war to make the point.

The Chinese are drawing a line in the ocean and saying keep out. The Navy needs to show the flag (and the armed weapons platform sailing under it) to the Chinese. Its a test, like many before it and many that will come in the future.

[roger teekell]

Anyone remember THIS little diddy??

Makes you think huh??

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html

Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

[rhet 2]

The Chinese's next step is to cause a collision with one of these vessels, or to board and seize it. One of the US Navy's primary missions is to ensure freedom of the seas for US vessels. That means making sure that only fools (who will act so no matter what you do) challange the presence and passage of a US vessel in international waters. The reality of this is that every once and a while the Commander of a US Man of War must bring his vessel along side of someone else's man of war to make the point.

The Chinese are drawing a line in the ocean and saying keep out. The Navy needs to show the flag (and the armed weapons platform sailing under it) to the Chinese. Its a test, like many before it and many that will come in the future.

Truth

Those who lack the courage and determination to defend their freedom at any cost lose their freedom.

[E7ALR]

Truth

Those who lack the courage and determination to defend their freedom at any cost lose their freedom.China is making the excuse that this is in their extended economic zone (not the same as territorial waters). But since this is an intelligence collection vessel, not a commercial fishing or deep sea mining vessel, I have a hard time seeing how their extended economic zone has anything to do with the issue. This is some combination of them trying to get defacto recognition of a territorial waters claim probably piggy backed on an attempt to disrupt US monitoring of some chinese submarine undergoing sea trials or some other exercise.

[rhet 2]

China is making the excuse that this is in their extended economic zone (not the same as territorial waters). But since this is an intelligence collection vessel, not a commercial fishing or deep sea mining vessel, I have a hard time seeing how their extended economic zone has anything to do with the issue. This is some combination of them trying to get defacto recognition of a territorial waters claim probably piggy backed on an attempt to disrupt US monitoring of some chinese submarine undergoing sea trials or some other exercise.

Mao thought he could exist without nasty capitalist profit-making enterprise.

The Chinese who followed his lead discovered the truth the hard way: socialism is a damned good way to starve entire nations.

Now the Chinese imperialists have developed a really really really BAD case of economic GREED -- courtesy of Nixon and Carter and their STUPID successors (including the So Hated George W.).

Because, without commerce, you don't build armies and navies and air forces required to conquer and control other nations and destroy other cultures for the sake of your own glory and honor as Numero Uno Race of Super Beings.

The Chinese Ubermensch have literally staked out the entire Asian sphere as their private domain.

[E7ALR]

Mao thought he could exist without nasty capitalist profit-making enterprise.

The Chinese who followed his lead discovered the truth the hard way: socialism is a damned good way to starve entire nations.

Now the Chinese imperialists have developed a really really really BAD case of economic GREED -- courtesy of Nixon and Carter and their STUPID successors (including the So Hated George W.).

Because, without commerce, you don't build armies and navies and air forces required to conquer and control other nations and destroy other cultures for the sake of your own glory and honor as Numero Uno Race of Super Beings.

The Chinese Ubermensch have literally staked out the entire Asian sphere as their private domain.Like many old empires, the Chinese dream of by gone days of grandure.

[rhet 2]

Like many old empires, the Chinese dream of by gone days of grandure.


Hey, when you encounter a superior Race with a superior Culture, kowtow, dude, kowtow!

And pray they accept your humble subhuman selves as slaves instead of using you as fertilizer.

Yes, much of post-Maoist Beijing reeks of the same bull crap as the old Imperial China at the heighth of its decadence.

The only difference is Superiority of Class by Party allegiance as opposed to the old Superior Class by birth and education.

[E7ALR]

Hey, when you encounter a superior Race with a superior Culture, kowtow, dude, kowtow!

And pray they accept your humble subhuman selves as slaves instead of using you as fertilizer.

Yes, much of post-Maoist Beijing reeks of the same bull crap as the old Imperial China at the heighth of its decadence.

The only difference is Superiority of Class by Party allegiance as opposed to the old Superior Class by birth and education.Gain it by party affiliation, pass it on to your kids.

Isn't that what the North Korean Communists do? I hear they are looking to see of one Kim's sons is now in their "legislature".

[A_K_]

Does China "hunt subs" near our waters? The Defense Dept. spokesman seemed to indicate they don't. If they were as close to us as we were to them "hunting subs" would we cause a stink?

[E7ALR]

Does China "hunt subs" near our waters? The Defense Dept. spokesman seemed to indicate they don't. If they were as close to us as we were to them "hunting subs" would we cause a stink?Your premise is foolish and reaks of faulty moral relativism. Just as there is no proportional measure in warfare, there is also no proportional measure in intelligence gathering.

Chinese Intelligence conducts continuous collection and surveillence operations against the US Navy with every ability that it possesses. Just because they do not currently have the force projection abilities or sonar technology of the US Navy is not relevent to the issue. The ship in question takes advantage of our technological abilities to detect and record sound traveling through water. They were not hunting submarines, they were hunting the sound of submarines and surface ships. There is nothing illegal about recording what ever sounds you can hear from international waters, and don't say that China or other nations don't send ships to record our ships (the Russians used trawlers rigged for intelligence collection).

[MikeB]

China will never go away as long as American companies continue to invest in this Communist country. All the U.S. is doing is enabling China to continue to become more aggressive as time goes on. How can anyone say (Free Trade, and China) in the same sentence? The way they are playing their little Military games with our Navy should be enough for american companies let alone our government to cut ties with this underhanded backstabing country. We need to invest in the U.S.A. and , other free countrys, and, not in a country such as China. No good will come of this!

[E7ALR]

I hear the Navy is now sending a Destroyer to shadow the Recon Ship while it keeps right on doing what it was doing, right where it was doing it.

[RWReaganfan]

And the real clincher is that the US has now basically mortgaged itself to China. It could make life interesting if they decide to call in all those loans.

How does one "call in" a loan between nation states? What gives them the right to alter an agreement?

In the end, we can simply refuse to pay them. What are they going to do? Stop selling us lead-based paint on our toys and poisoned food products?

[rhet 2]

How does one "call in" a loan between nation states? What gives them the right to alter an agreement?

In the end, we can simply refuse to pay them. What are they going to do? Stop selling us lead-based paint on our toys and poisoned food products?

Or declare war and try to take what we refuse to give?

And it's not just the Abomination of Abominations, not when it comes to China.

Madame Clinton is connected to LOTS of really weird Chinese "immigrant" donations from dish washers who very conveniently cannot be found. Not to mention the Chinese criminal -- who'd given her the max. What was that jerk's name?

And Obama's got LOTS of unaccounted for campaign donations, too.

Coincidence?

Or Convenience?