Remember the guy on the bus in Canada who stabbed and decapitated a sleeping man?

[Pudge]

Yeah, decision came down today.

Not guilty by reason of insanity.

So, the guy who was stabbed, beheaded, had his organs ripped out of his body and his eyes and 1/3 of his heart eaten- no justice.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gMMWxZLdpJd5MNcJI_Ls6hUheKYw

Sad. Incredibly sad. My heart goes out to Tim McLean's family and friends.

[Vaard]

institutions for the criminally insane can be worse than prison........


its not like he will ever be released.....

[dittoheadAZ]

institutions for the criminally insane can be worse than prison........

its not like he will ever be released.....

That's why he should be executed rather than merely imprisoned.

I love it when they say someone is "not competent to stand trial"...

A) That's what laywers are for.
B) Does that mean we can go straight to the sentencing?

[spearmaster]

Yeah, decision came down today.

Not guilty by reason of insanity.

So, the guy who was stabbed, beheaded, had his organs ripped out of his body and his eyes and 1/3 of his heart eaten- no justice.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gMMWxZLdpJd5MNcJI_Ls6hUheKYw

Sad. Incredibly sad. My heart goes out to Tim McLean's family and friends.

Yeah that is horrible, that sicko needed to be put to death. Canadian justice for you I guess.

[CaptainPike]

institutions for the criminally insane can be worse than prison........


its not like he will ever be released.....

Dahmer wannabe kills someone, tax payers get the shaft.

[bella-day]

Yeah, decision came down today.

Not guilty by reason of insanity.

So, the guy who was stabbed, beheaded, had his organs ripped out of his body and his eyes and 1/3 of his heart eaten- no justice.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gMMWxZLdpJd5MNcJI_Ls6hUheKYw

Sad. Incredibly sad. My heart goes out to Tim McLean's family and friends.


As does mine. They sought justice for the torture/slaughter of their loved one and all they recieved was a slap across the face.


His mental health is to be evaluated within 90 days, the judge ordered. Thereafter, he may be released or confined to a secure psychiatric hospital for treatment.
Outside the courtroom, McLean's mother Carol Dedelley expressed her disappointment at the verdict and her fears for public safety.
"This isn't the right result," Dedelley told reporters. "Knowing that that killer might get out sometime soon is very hard."
"A crime was still committed here, a murder still occurred, and (this) ruling seems to negate that fact."

He could be released in as little as 90 days.

Could that mean that if he takes his meds they will release when he's evaluated?

The man apparently knew he had severe mental issues...

Li was admitted to a mental hospital in 2005, where he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, according to court testimony.

So, he was diagnosed in 2005? I wonder if he had decided he no longer needed his meds?

Mentally ill or not, the man should never see a day outside of an institution.

[FidelisAdMortem]

institutions for the criminally insane can be worse than prison........


its not like he will ever be released.....


You are wrong.

[Dreamy]

This maniacal creature should be executed and the judge should have a psyche evaluation.

[Bolshevik Hunter]

Basically, In BH world, we would first beat him with a rubber hose for a half hour, cut at about 5 feet or so, and dipped in Olive Oil. We would do this every single day for about 3 months. Only for a half an hour though, because we wouldn't want to end his misery too soon and kill him. He then would be sprayed down with rubbing alcohol every evening.

Then, after his 3 month orientation to justice, we would then move on to even longer hose beatings for another 3 months. Around an hour a day. Course, while all this is happening, he is also being held in Solitary confinement, with only bread and water to make sure he doesn't get off with an easy death. Don't forget the Alcohol spray after each beating. ;)

After those 3 months, we would repeatedly drown him, slap him awake, then drown him and slap him awake, for about an hour a day for another 3 months. Which isn't bad compared to the hose if you really think about it. When he was returned to his cell with nothing other than a blanket on the ground and a bucket to crap in, he would be subjected to sound torture throughout every night. Probably Obama or Pelosi speeches. Course, this would go on for another 3 months.

Then, prior to his 10 years of absolute solitary confinement with only a blanket on the ground and a bucket to poop in, he would have all his finger nails pulled out with pliars. While chained to a chair, we would spray his finger nails with rubbing alcohol, his old buddy. Then, we would remove one of his eyes so he could think about what he did to his victim for the next 10 years of misery.

Finally, after 10 years, which in BH's World would already be enough to drive anyone insane, he would be put to death. However, first he would be hung from his ankles and given one final beating with his old buddy the hose. Of course sprayed with Alcohol, but then we would read the Obituary of his victim to him. Afterwords, a pillow case would be put over his head with 4 rabid rats inside it to keep him company for around 15 minutes. Don't want to be too cruel yuh know? At the end of the day, he would get a cattle prod up the yin yang and cremated.

Now, This would be a normal policy for child molesters, child killers and home invaders, but we would make an exception for this scum bag and Berney Madoff. ~BH

[Pudge]

You know, I am not a monster frothing for revenge. Canada doesn't have a death penalty anyway.

What I would like to see is some consideration for the 23 year old victim by the courts, and it is apparent by all the press that the court couldn't have cared less about Tim McLean. They cared more about Vince Li's mental illness and his issues and little if anything about the man he murdered.

I've no objection to Vince Li spending the rest of his days in an asylum for the criminally insane, but there should never, ever be a question of him being released. Medication or not, cure or not, he took a life in a horrific, grisly fashion, and despite what the law says, I believe he is responsible and must atone somehow for it. If that means staying in a supervised asylum or some separate place from society then so be it, but to give him a NOT GUILTY, which means that every year, his case gets reviewed and he could be released, and McLean's family has to relive this gruesome murder every time he comes up for review... I can't get behind that.

Fine, you're criminally insane. You don't get to be part of society anymore.

[ManOfFaith]

How about just execute him. He serves no purpose. His life is wasting money.

[ManOfFaith]

Aren't all criminals mentally ill?

[Bolshevik Hunter]

You know, I am not a monster frothing for revenge.

Who exaclty is "a monster frothing for revenge"? Just curious about that comment Pudge?

Canada doesn't have a death penalty anyway.

Of course not. The penalties for violating the Law are about as strict as the penalties for violating Canadian immigration Laws. = pathetic. Atleast, what Laws they have. At the rate they are going, Canada will be The New Red China. Course, we might beat them out by being the new 'Mexico', not a name for a State, but the real one this time around. ;)

What I would like to see is some consideration for the 23 year old victim by the courts, and it is apparent by all the press that the court couldn't have cared less about Tim McLean. They cared more about Vince Li's mental illness and his issues and little if anything about the man he murdered.

That is what happens with a Nation full of pacifist Laws. Basically, Evil is allowed to harm the innocent, and the State actually encourages this with their leftist legislation and the vermin who rule it. A bunch of weak, gutless cowards in charge of handing down Justice. What a shame. Something we need to fix for good as far as I, and millions and millions of others believe.

I've no objection to Vince Li spending the rest of his days in an asylum for the criminally insane, but there should never, ever be a question of him being released.

Why would yuh? And him being released? of course not. The thought of that is nothing short of insanity. But, these institutions, who are run by lunatics themselves, would surely release him if they eventually get the chance. Hell, Hinkley tried to kill Reagan, yet he has been released into protective custody under his elderly parents who I am sure can physically keep a good eye on him. ;)

Medication or not, cure or not, he took a life in a horrific, grisly fashion, and despite what the law says, I believe he is responsible and must atone somehow for it.

Yes, I agree with you. Only him paying the piper in my opinion is a much different matter. At the least, he should be shot in the back of his head. That would be the "humane" thing to do to the scumbag. If it were up to me, well, I am sure you already read it.

If that means staying in a supervised asylum or some separate place from society then so be it,

No, absolutley not. No tax revenue should be spent to house and feed such a vile creature. His death is what life is all about. Natural Law is true justice, and true justice is whoever sheds the blood of Man, by Man his blood shall be shed. They should die, and not even die honorably. That is reserved for warriors and better Men. More honorable men killed themselves in Warfare by a much more violent death. To give these vermin a shot in the arm, is nothing short of a front to justice.

but to give him a NOT GUILTY, which means that every year, his case gets reviewed and he could be released, and McLean's family has to relive this gruesome murder every time he comes up for review... I can't get behind that.

Exactly Pudge. If you give these low-lifes an inch, they will take a mile. Not guilty by reason of insanity is the biggest sham in the history of Law. Anyone who murders another humanbeing is obviously Temporarily insane. But some pre-meditate their crimes, yet they still claim that they were insane. I say, brutally execute anyone who is insane. It's better for "humanity, it's better for civilization over all, and it's better for the future blood line of Mankind on this planet.

Also, We should eradicate every single child molester after their first offense. No jail time, just eradication from the natural order. That is my dream.

Fine, you're criminally insane. You don't get to be part of society anymore.

Nope, not good enough for me Pudge. Then, as well as the sun will rise tomorrow, a bottomfeeder or a Law in the future, will set them free so that they can harm, once again, someone elses family member. I respect what you are saying bro, but I don't believe in second chances for people who do things like this. That includes wasting any revenue on feeding or housing these enemies of Life.

Yeah, I am sure some people might think that I am harsh, because I am. However, Not until it is one of our own family members who suffered such a horrible death, not until then, could we even begin to understand these folks pain, or ever be able to view this straight forward ruthless punishment that I have suported and suggested as deserving. I understand that too, just for the record. We are a forgiving people, a civilizend people. Though sometimes that hurts us and over-all Justice.

Nobody understands losing a loved one until it hits them personally at home. Everyone else is just an observer with an opinion. This my friends, is just mine. ~BH

[sgtmac_46]

That's why he should be executed rather than merely imprisoned.

I love it when they say someone is "not competent to stand trial"...

A) That's what laywers are for.
B) Does that mean we can go straight to the sentencing? Yeah, no kidding......who's more dangerous......someone who made a conscious choice to kill, or someone who is COMPELLED to kill! :eek:

[sgtmac_46]

Aren't all criminals mentally ill? Some would argue.......but the issue should ultimately be irrelevant. The real question should rest on the relative future danger a person represents in relation to the severity of the crime they already committed.

I'd say the risk to the public if THIS guy was ever released again is pretty darned high!

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Well, the judge was right in that sense, but this guy needs to be locked up forever. He'll never be "better".

[sgtmac_46]

Well, the judge was right in that sense, but this guy needs to be locked up forever. He'll never be "better". That much is certainly true........there is no way that this guy could ever remotely be trusted. The guy is truly dangerous.

I also made the claim, and took a lot of heat at the time, that the police should have stormed the bus, given that he was still hacking on the victim, and shot this guy if he refused to obey commands. This verdict merely reinforces how right I was.

I feel that the attempt to negotiate, with a man still actively violently attacking the victim, was a mistake on the part of the police. Other folks argued 'But he was already dead at that point'? How did they know he was dead at that point? Because they read in the article, after the fact, that he had already been dead at that point?

Prior to that the police were merely ASSuming he was dead, and the assumption SHOULD have been that he MIGHT be alive, and it's necessary to get to him as soon as possible and stop this attack!

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Fine, you're criminally insane. You don't get to be part of society anymore.
Exactly.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

That much is certainly true........there is no way that this guy could ever remotely be trusted. The guy is truly dangerous.

I also made the claim, and took a lot of heat at the time, that the police should have stormed the bus, given that he was still hacking on the victim, and shot this guy if he refused to obey commands. This verdict merely reinforces how right I was.

I feel that the attempt to negotiate, with a man still actively violently attacking the victim, was a mistake on the part of the police. Other folks argued 'But he was already dead at that point'? How did they know he was dead at that point? Because they read in the article, after the fact, that he had already been dead at that point?

Prior to that the police were merely ASSuming he was dead, and the assumption SHOULD have been that he MIGHT be alive, and it's necessary to get to him as soon as possible and stop this attack!
Well, the fact Li was taunting them with the victim's head probably led them to believe the guy was dead...

I won't second guess them. I have no idea what was going on at the time, nor if they thought others might still be on the bus or whatever.

[sgtmac_46]

Well, the fact Li was taunting them with the victim's head probably led them to believe the guy was dead...

I won't second guess them. I have no idea what was going on at the time, nor if they thought others might still be on the bus or whatever. I will second guess them......and he started taunting them with the head AFTER Emergency Services arrived, not upon the immediate arrival of first responding officers.....all first responding officers knew was that they were told the guy was on the bus, attacking someone else with a knife. Contacting ES and waiting for a negotiator is a poor choice, based on the most current training in 'Active Shooter/Attacker' situations. That mentality is what allowed Columbine to become far worse than it should have been.

The first responding officers should have immediately stormed the bus at shotgun point, ordered moron to drop his knife and assume the position, and if he didn't do so, shoot him until he did.

[JenyEliza]

You know, I am not a monster frothing for revenge. Canada doesn't have a death penalty anyway.

What I would like to see is some consideration for the 23 year old victim by the courts, and it is apparent by all the press that the court couldn't have cared less about Tim McLean. They cared more about Vince Li's mental illness and his issues and little if anything about the man he murdered.

I've no objection to Vince Li spending the rest of his days in an asylum for the criminally insane, but there should never, ever be a question of him being released. Medication or not, cure or not, he took a life in a horrific, grisly fashion, and despite what the law says, I believe he is responsible and must atone somehow for it. If that means staying in a supervised asylum or some separate place from society then so be it, but to give him a NOT GUILTY, which means that every year, his case gets reviewed and he could be released, and McLean's family has to relive this gruesome murder every time he comes up for review... I can't get behind that.

Fine, you're criminally insane. You don't get to be part of society anymore.

+10,000

See link in my sig line for another gross miscarriage of justice. Thirty-five years (and counting) waiting for Lori's murderer's death sentence to be carried out.

Thirty-five years her family has had to re-live her grisly abduction and murder every time her killer appeals for clemency, or a new trial for a review of his sentence.

He doesn't deny he killed Lori. He fully admits he did. Hell he lead police (and her father) to her body.

He just doesn't think he ought to die for killing her.

Thirty-five years. Her parents were in their mid 30's when she was murdered. They're in their 70's now. Still waiting for justice for thier 8 year old little girl.

Yes, another case of no justice for the victim, while everyone gnashes their teeth and wrings their hands for the killer.

How sad that an innocent 8 year old little girl means so little to our society, while an adult male pedophile, rapist murderer and kidnapper has all the rights.

Very sad. :cry:

[JenyEliza]

I will second guess them......and he started taunting them with the head AFTER Emergency Services arrived, not upon the immediate arrival of first responding officers.....all first responding officers knew was that they were told the guy was on the bus, attacking someone else with a knife. Contacting ES and waiting for a negotiator is a poor choice, based on the most current training in 'Active Shooter/Attacker' situations. That mentality is what allowed Columbine to become far worse than it should have been.

The first responding officers should have immediately stormed the bus at shotgun point, ordered moron to drop his knife and assume the position, and if he didn't do so, shoot him until he did.

Yep!

[LouC]

If I were still a proponent of the death penalty this fiend would be one of the first I would call to be executed.

Put him in an asylum for life, forget about reviews to determine if he is better, the risk of being wrong is far too great.

[jeepers]

I would have had the cops storm the bus and end the attack, even if the guy was already dead. If there were others on the bus, and this guy is holding one guy's head already, there is no reason to believe that he wouldn't do it ot another. He needed to be taken out by a swat team in my estimation.

As to punishing him, he's massively insane. How do you punish someone without a context of right and wrong? If he understood that, he wouldn't have done that type of crime in the first place. So that seems to me to be an unattainable goal. If you're crazier than a ****house rat, rules won't mean anything to you.

I do believe that he's about as dangerous as it gets and shouldn't see the light of day. Punishment is besides the point, rehabilitation is ajoke. Just keep him off the ****ing streets so that he can't do that to anyone again. If that meant execution, fine. If that means solitary forever? Fine. Rubber room? Don't care.

Just don't let him near another live human being that isn't armed.

[Talk2Bill]

there should be no such verdict as 'Not guilty by reason of insanity.'

did he do it? was it justified? then Guilty. was he insane? well then he will be put in a mental health prison until he is sane. and after that he can go to real prison for the rest of his sentence.

[bella-day]

there should be no such verdict as 'Not guilty by reason of insanity.'

did he do it? was it justified? then Guilty. was he insane? well then he will be put in a mental health prison until he is sane. and after that he can go to real prison for the rest of his sentence.

Isn't it a shame that the judge did not possess the common sense you just used.

Your post addressed the type of justice that should have been served.

[Pudge]

Who exaclty is "a monster frothing for revenge"? Just curious about that comment Pudge?

There are people who wrote in this thread in graphic detail about how Vince Li should be killed, and not a quick execution, but a slow, painful death.

If Canada had a death penalty, and Li was found guilty and sentenced to die, I'd be fine with that too. But I am not fine with this eye for an eye in the literal sense. I simply want justice, I've no desire to use the law as a tool of vengeance.

That is what happens with a Nation full of pacifist Laws. Basically, Evil is allowed to harm the innocent, and the State actually encourages this with their leftist legislation and the vermin who rule it. A bunch of weak, gutless cowards in charge of handing down Justice. What a shame. Something we need to fix for good as far as I, and millions and millions of others believe.

Let me play devil's advocate here: Why does Canada have far less violent crime, per capita, than the USA does? After all, their criminal justice system is far more liberal than ours is, but they don't have nearly the same crime rates.

these institutions, who are run by lunatics themselves, would surely release him if they eventually get the chance. Hell, Hinkley tried to kill Reagan, yet he has been released into protective custody under his elderly parents who I am sure can physically keep a good eye on him. ;)

I agree, Hinkley shouldn't be getting out, nor Charles Manson, or Mark David Chapman, or Sirhan Sirhan.

Yes, I agree with you. Only him paying the piper in my opinion is a much different matter. At the least, he should be shot in the back of his head. That would be the "humane" thing to do to the scumbag. If it were up to me, well, I am sure you already read it.

If someone is genuinely mentally ill- and I am not talking about sociopaths with no conscience who are aware of what they do, know it's wrong, and do it anyway- then I am hesitant to just put a gun to their head and pull the trigger. Paranoid schizophrenia can happen to *any* of us. One day we're living a normal life and the next we're hearing God telling us to gut the lady at the bus stop like a fish. If Li was really paranoid schizophrenic he had no idea what he was doing. Of course, that doesn't excuse his actions, which is why I say he should never be let loose into society again.

No, absolutley not. No tax revenue should be spent to house and feed such a vile creature. His death is what life is all about. Natural Law is true justice, and true justice is whoever sheds the blood of Man, by Man his blood shall be shed. They should die, and not even die honorably. That is reserved for warriors and better Men. More honorable men killed themselves in Warfare by a much more violent death. To give these vermin a shot in the arm, is nothing short of a front to justice.

That would have been a great speech in 1670. They didn't understand paranoid schizophrenia then. They thought it was demonic possession.

Not guilty by reason of insanity is the biggest sham in the history of Law. Anyone who murders another humanbeing is obviously Temporarily insane. But some pre-meditate their crimes, yet they still claim that they were insane. I say, brutally execute anyone who is insane. It's better for "humanity, it's better for civilization over all, and it's better for the future blood line of Mankind on this planet.

Is it better? I don't know. If you just kill off the mentally ill we may never be able to find a cure or better yet, a way to protect all of us from the onset of such drastic psychological conditions.

We should eradicate every single child molester after their first offense. No jail time, just eradication from the natural order. That is my dream.

Define 'child molester'. The way the laws currently are, even an innocent touch can be turned into an act of lewd conduct with a child. You hug your nephew, for example, but your brother's wife thinks it's untoward and files a complaint. Accusations of this type are common, some grow legs, some go to trial, some get convicted. It's hard to defend against a charge like that, where emotions run high and the standard of proof is often much lower than in other trials because of how the law accomodates testimony by child witnesses (often the only 'proof' of the allegations, and often coached and allowed to testify via closed circuit so they don't have to face the person they're accusing).

Nobody understands losing a loved one until it hits them personally at home. Everyone else is just an observer with an opinion. This my friends, is just mine. ~BH

You're obviously emotional about this, and if you've suffered the loss of a loved one to a murderer or serious harm to someone you care about then I can't blame you. But I will say that for all you cloak your opinions in Natural Law, your thirst for revenge and blood comes soaking right on through.

[Pudge]

The first responding officers should have immediately stormed the bus at shotgun point, ordered moron to drop his knife and assume the position, and if he didn't do so, shoot him until he did.

Remember, this is Canada, it's really hard to get a horse on a bus.

:))

[Hereintheusa]

Why would any Christian want to execute someone who has been deemed not to be responsible for their actions due to mental illness? I agree that mental illness should not be a passport to a lighter sentence but surely Jesus Christ would not want someone who is not truly responsible for their actions to be executed?

I suppose many of you feel that mental illness is not a true illness.

[Bolshevik Hunter]

There are people who wrote in this thread in graphic detail about how Vince Li should be killed, and not a quick execution, but a slow, painful death.

If Canada had a death penalty, and Li was found guilty and sentenced to die, I'd be fine with that too. But I am not fine with this eye for an eye in the literal sense. I simply want justice, I've no desire to use the law as a tool of vengeance.



Let me play devil's advocate here: Why does Canada have far less violent crime, per capita, than the USA does? After all, their criminal justice system is far more liberal than ours is, but they don't have nearly the same crime rates.



I agree, Hinkley shouldn't be getting out, nor Charles Manson, or Mark David Chapman, or Sirhan Sirhan.



If someone is genuinely mentally ill- and I am not talking about sociopaths with no conscience who are aware of what they do, know it's wrong, and do it anyway- then I am hesitant to just put a gun to their head and pull the trigger. Paranoid schizophrenia can happen to *any* of us. One day we're living a normal life and the next we're hearing God telling us to gut the lady at the bus stop like a fish. If Li was really paranoid schizophrenic he had no idea what he was doing. Of course, that doesn't excuse his actions, which is why I say he should never be let loose into society again.



That would have been a great speech in 1670. They didn't understand paranoid schizophrenia then. They thought it was demonic possession.



Is it better? I don't know. If you just kill off the mentally ill we may never be able to find a cure or better yet, a way to protect all of us from the onset of such drastic psychological conditions.



Define 'child molester'. The way the laws currently are, even an innocent touch can be turned into an act of lewd conduct with a child. You hug your nephew, for example, but your brother's wife thinks it's untoward and files a complaint. Accusations of this type are common, some grow legs, some go to trial, some get convicted. It's hard to defend against a charge like that, where emotions run high and the standard of proof is often much lower than in other trials because of how the law accomodates testimony by child witnesses (often the only 'proof' of the allegations, and often coached and allowed to testify via closed circuit so they don't have to face the person they're accusing).



You're obviously emotional about this, and if you've suffered the loss of a loved one to a murderer or serious harm to someone you care about then I can't blame you. But I will say that for all you cloak your opinions in Natural Law, your thirst for revenge and blood comes soaking right on through.

The pacifism is the problem. We obviously disagree, Not a big deal Pudge. I respect your opinion. Yes, Revenge is sweet to me. Nothing could be sweeter than killing the person who killed my loved one on purpose. But hey, that's just me I guess. ~BH

[Hereintheusa]

The pacifism is the problem. We obviously disagree, Not a big deal Pudge. I respect your opinion. Yes, Revenge is sweet to me. Nothing could be sweeter than killing the person who killed my loved one on purpose. But hey, that's just me I guess. ~BH

But the law is not about revenge. Execution of criminals is not about state sponsored revenge, its about a society that has deemed that certain crimes can only be punished with the ultimate penalty.

This is why the victims do not decide upon the punishment. We are only human and in the majority of times the punishment would be far too excessive. For example if someone mugged my daughter and broke her nose I would want to kill the SOB but obviously that crime does not really warrant execution but I am reacting in a very human and understandable way.

[Bolshevik Hunter]

But the law is not about revenge. Execution of criminals is not about state sponsored revenge, its about a society that has deemed that certain crimes can only be punished with the ultimate penalty.

This is why the victims do not decide upon the punishment. We are only human and in the majority of times the punishment would be far too excessive. For example if someone mugged my daughter and broke her nose I would want to kill the SOB but obviously that crime does not really warrant execution but I am reacting in a very human and understandable way.

I understand that. You make a good arguement with your example of your daughter. I know what you're saying, and yes we need commonsense. I rant alot about it, but I know at the end of the day we can't have total chaos.

I still stand by my eye for an eye beliefs though. You torture one of my loved ones, I will do atleast that or worse to you. Smaller crimes against those we love, like what you mentioned, you made your case very well. No, we can't go killing people for just hurting someone we love, even though we would want to. We would just end up in Jail ourselves.

Law and order we must have, but also commonsense as well. Just for the record though, if it were tribul Law, anyone who intentionally tried to harm my daughter would be brutally beatin and most likely to the death because of my rage. I still understand and somewhat agree with your point though bro. ~BH

[Pudge]

The pacifism is the problem. We obviously disagree, Not a big deal Pudge. I respect your opinion. Yes, Revenge is sweet to me. Nothing could be sweeter than killing the person who killed my loved one on purpose. But hey, that's just me I guess. ~BH

I'm not a pacifist, though. I don't believe that force should never be used. What I am saying is that I disagree with the Canadian courts for not holding Li responsible, but disagree with you who would like to see him disemboweled with a wooden cooking spoon.

Like I said, any one of us could be stricken with paranoid schizophrenia, the causes of it are unknown. Li did not consciously choose of his own volition to do what he did, but I still don't trust that he can be a part of society, and he owes a debt to the family of the person he killed nonetheless.

[sgtmac_46]

there should be no such verdict as 'Not guilty by reason of insanity.'

did he do it? was it justified? then Guilty. was he insane? well then he will be put in a mental health prison until he is sane. and after that he can go to real prison for the rest of his sentence. Exactly.....unfortunately attorney's have applied a bastardized concept of mental culpability.

[sgtmac_46]

There are people who wrote in this thread in graphic detail about how Vince Li should be killed, and not a quick execution, but a slow, painful death.

If Canada had a death penalty, and Li was found guilty and sentenced to die, I'd be fine with that too. But I am not fine with this eye for an eye in the literal sense. I simply want justice, I've no desire to use the law as a tool of vengeance.

Justice is just vengeance wrapped in a pretty bow and called legitimate. More to the point, 'justice' or more accurately 'the law', is really government declaring, for itself, the power to decide what is right and wrong, and meting out just enough 'justice' to keep folks complacent. ;)

[sgtmac_46]

Why would any Christian want to execute someone who has been deemed not to be responsible for their actions due to mental illness? I agree that mental illness should not be a passport to a lighter sentence but surely Jesus Christ would not want someone who is not truly responsible for their actions to be executed?

I suppose many of you feel that mental illness is not a true illness. I'm not a Christian......to me it's no different that shooting a rabid dog in the back of the head because he presents an ongoing danger.

The ultimate purpose of the law is to protect society.

1) He committed an act that would justify death.

2) He has the mental state to commit that act again, if ever allowed to.

Just the first is enough to justify death......the second part is being used as a defense here, and that's what is asinine.

He's a rabid dog.....it may not, arguably, be the dogs fault he caught rabies, or this man that is a mentally ill rabid human compelled to kill 'by the voices'.......but that IS what he IS, and it can't be cured. He is a clear and present danger, and that is enough.


Besides, if he's that bat **** crazy, it's a mercy to put him out of his misery.....do you seriously think if he had a moment of sanity to tell us what he wanted, he'd say he wanted to continue living insane?....just think 'Terri Schiavo'. ;)

[Bolshevik Hunter]

I'm not a pacifist, though. I don't believe that force should never be used. What I am saying is that I disagree with the Canadian courts for not holding Li responsible, but disagree with you who would like to see him disemboweled with a wooden cooking spoon.

I never suggested such a practice, but I did suggest him being beatin with a rubber hose. Personally, I would just hang the bottomfeeder, but first with a couple hours of the rubber hose.

Like I said, any one of us could be stricken with paranoid schizophrenia, the causes of it are unknown. Li did not consciously choose of his own volition to do what he did, but I still don't trust that he can be a part of society, and he owes a debt to the family of the person he killed nonetheless.

Yeah, so we disagree. I don't really care if he was stricken with "paranoid schizophrenia". He can die right now, and that would be the best outcome in my opinion. Just like the guy who was diagnosed with "paranoid schizophrenia" multiple times who pushed a poor women in front of a New York subway train? He should be dead too, but he's not. ~BH

[Gabby]

You know, I am not a monster frothing for revenge. Canada doesn't have a death penalty anyway.

What I would like to see is some consideration for the 23 year old victim by the courts, and it is apparent by all the press that the court couldn't have cared less about Tim McLean. They cared more about Vince Li's mental illness and his issues and little if anything about the man he murdered.

I've no objection to Vince Li spending the rest of his days in an asylum for the criminally insane, but there should never, ever be a question of him being released. Medication or not, cure or not, he took a life in a horrific, grisly fashion, and despite what the law says, I believe he is responsible and must atone somehow for it. If that means staying in a supervised asylum or some separate place from society then so be it, but to give him a NOT GUILTY, which means that every year, his case gets reviewed and he could be released, and McLean's family has to relive this gruesome murder every time he comes up for review... I can't get behind that.

Fine, you're criminally insane. You don't get to be part of society anymore.

I agree...

However, if the system will not keep him locked up IMHO he should be put to death. The public must be protected from him.... mentally ill or not.

[slick_trip]

Basically, In BH world, we would first beat him with a rubber hose for a half hour, cut at about 5 feet or so, and dipped in Olive Oil. We would do this every single day for about 3 months. Only for a half an hour though, because we wouldn't want to end his misery too soon and kill him. He then would be sprayed down with rubbing alcohol every evening.

Then, after his 3 month orientation to justice, we would then move on to even longer hose beatings for another 3 months. Around an hour a day. Course, while all this is happening, he is also being held in Solitary confinement, with only bread and water to make sure he doesn't get off with an easy death. Don't forget the Alcohol spray after each beating. ;)

After those 3 months, we would repeatedly drown him, slap him awake, then drown him and slap him awake, for about an hour a day for another 3 months. Which isn't bad compared to the hose if you really think about it. When he was returned to his cell with nothing other than a blanket on the ground and a bucket to crap in, he would be subjected to sound torture throughout every night. Probably Obama or Pelosi speeches. Course, this would go on for another 3 months.

Then, prior to his 10 years of absolute solitary confinement with only a blanket on the ground and a bucket to poop in, he would have all his finger nails pulled out with pliars. While chained to a chair, we would spray his finger nails with rubbing alcohol, his old buddy. Then, we would remove one of his eyes so he could think about what he did to his victim for the next 10 years of misery.

Finally, after 10 years, which in BH's World would already be enough to drive anyone insane, he would be put to death. However, first he would be hung from his ankles and given one final beating with his old buddy the hose. Of course sprayed with Alcohol, but then we would read the Obituary of his victim to him. Afterwords, a pillow case would be put over his head with 4 rabid rats inside it to keep him company for around 15 minutes. Don't want to be too cruel yuh know? At the end of the day, he would get a cattle prod up the yin yang and cremated.

Now, This would be a normal policy for child molesters, child killers and home invaders, but we would make an exception for this scum bag and Berney Madoff. ~BH

your humanity is showing....

it's one thing to consider imprisonment 'less' of a punishment than death - or to house concerns that a 'life in prison' sentence ends up being less so....and completely another thing to schedule out a torture calendar.

slick's corollary - our morality is most defined on the act we're willing to commit - not who we're willing to act against.

[slick_trip]

You know, I am not a monster frothing for revenge. Canada doesn't have a death penalty anyway.

What I would like to see is some consideration for the 23 year old victim by the courts, and it is apparent by all the press that the court couldn't have cared less about Tim McLean. They cared more about Vince Li's mental illness and his issues and little if anything about the man he murdered.

I've no objection to Vince Li spending the rest of his days in an asylum for the criminally insane, but there should never, ever be a question of him being released. Medication or not, cure or not, he took a life in a horrific, grisly fashion, and despite what the law says, I believe he is responsible and must atone somehow for it. If that means staying in a supervised asylum or some separate place from society then so be it, but to give him a NOT GUILTY, which means that every year, his case gets reviewed and he could be released, and McLean's family has to relive this gruesome murder every time he comes up for review... I can't get behind that.

Fine, you're criminally insane. You don't get to be part of society anymore.

excellent post.

is there a 'guilty by reason of insanity' that would at least recognize he's responsible for what he's done?

i agree that dealing with someone who's clearly a nutcase is different than dealing with simply the criminally minded - but that does not, or should not, excuse them from being accountable for their choices/actions.

[pdmike]

Basically, In BH world, we would first beat him with a rubber hose for a half hour, cut at about 5 feet or so, and dipped in Olive Oil. We would do this every single day for about 3 months. Only for a half an hour though, because we wouldn't want to end his misery too soon and kill him. He then would be sprayed down with rubbing alcohol every evening.

Then, after his 3 month orientation to justice, we would then move on to even longer hose beatings for another 3 months. Around an hour a day. Course, while all this is happening, he is also being held in Solitary confinement, with only bread and water to make sure he doesn't get off with an easy death. Don't forget the Alcohol spray after each beating. ;)

After those 3 months, we would repeatedly drown him, slap him awake, then drown him and slap him awake, for about an hour a day for another 3 months. Which isn't bad compared to the hose if you really think about it. When he was returned to his cell with nothing other than a blanket on the ground and a bucket to crap in, he would be subjected to sound torture throughout every night. Probably Obama or Pelosi speeches. Course, this would go on for another 3 months.

Then, prior to his 10 years of absolute solitary confinement with only a blanket on the ground and a bucket to poop in, he would have all his finger nails pulled out with pliars. While chained to a chair, we would spray his finger nails with rubbing alcohol, his old buddy. Then, we would remove one of his eyes so he could think about what he did to his victim for the next 10 years of misery.

Finally, after 10 years, which in BH's World would already be enough to drive anyone insane, he would be put to death. However, first he would be hung from his ankles and given one final beating with his old buddy the hose. Of course sprayed with Alcohol, but then we would read the Obituary of his victim to him. Afterwords, a pillow case would be put over his head with 4 rabid rats inside it to keep him company for around 15 minutes. Don't want to be too cruel yuh know? At the end of the day, he would get a cattle prod up the yin yang and cremated.

Now, This would be a normal policy for child molesters, child killers and home invaders, but we would make an exception for this scum bag and Berney Madoff. ~BH

Is this typical of conservtive thinking?

[Marleysdaddy]

Yeah, decision came down today.

Not guilty by reason of insanity.

So, the guy who was stabbed, beheaded, had his organs ripped out of his body and his eyes and 1/3 of his heart eaten- no justice.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gMMWxZLdpJd5MNcJI_Ls6hUheKYw

Sad. Incredibly sad. My heart goes out to Tim McLean's family and friends.

It is incredibly sad - but the perpetrator will spend the rest of his natural life in a hospital for the criminally insane - it may not be the justice some people seek, but it is a sort of justice.

[EdWood]

Wow... just wow.... if this would have happened in Texas, the results would've been a lot different.

[Talk2Bill]

Wow... just wow.... if this would have happened in Texas, the results would've been a lot different.

that is not correct. he would have been found 'Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity' here too.

[pdmike]

Wow... just wow.... if this would have happened in Texas, the results would've been a lot different.

How so? Don't juries in Texas follow the law?

[Bolshevik Hunter]

your humanity is showing....

it's one thing to consider imprisonment 'less' of a punishment than death - or to house concerns that a 'life in prison' sentence ends up being less so....and completely another thing to schedule out a torture calendar.

Who are you to decide what is and what is not justice? We got different ideas of what that is. I like the idea of a torture calender for scums like this.

slick's corollary - our morality is most defined on the act we're willing to commit - not who we're willing to act against.

Thank's for the lecture. Are you done with your feel good moment now?

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229/kampkirk88/smiley_smileyfactory.gif ~BH

[Bolshevik Hunter]

Is this typical of conservtive thinking?

I know that you wish that it is, but Conservative has nothing to do with it. And as usual, you're defending the scum of the World. Are you representing Pro-Bono on this one today Mike? LOL!!!!!

Get over it, I was mostly joking around. However, I would have no problem shooting him in the back of his head or slapping the horses behind in order to hang the filth bag if it were legal and they would ask me. ;) ~BH

[Claymore]

That SOB should be hung from a meat hook and gutted.