I stopped my son's school from teaching him about Obama how and why

[grhayes]

My son is age 7 while the area I live in is mostly conservative in nature a large number of those in our school system a liberals and have no problem crossing the line shoving propaganda down our children's throats. Thankfully not all are that way.

I employed their own tactics against them today. I used the right under freedom of religion that they have pushed so far as to not allow teaching of religious doctrines in schools.

You are probably asking what religious doctrine has to do with not teaching about Obama.

Well as you know Obama worked for ACORN and such based on the Saul David Alinsky models for community activism. Alinsky's son said in a letter to the Chicago Globe that Obama had learned his lessons well during that period.

Saul David Alinsky's plans or model is put forth in the book, "Rules for Radicals." Which just happens to have a dedication to "Lucifer" (Satan) by Alinsky in it. There is reason for this. The book attempts to point out morals are not good for a free society and that establishments must be torn down into chaos before something new can be created from them be it a socialist communist dicatorship and so on. Want to guess what doctrine that came from yes the Satanic Doctrine.

Since you can trace most of Obama's speeches back to the book and doctrine that Alinsky has created which is in effect a rewrite of the Satanic doctrine Obama is preaching and invocing the Satanic Doctrine. Hmmm. Maybe that explains why he thinks it is ok to let a baby die on a table and not give it care even if it survives an abortion or that methods are to be used to exterminate its life. Sounds a lot like human sacrafice of an innocent.

Either way the school decided I was write enough that they only wanted a letter on the issue and will no longer teach anything at all about Obama to my son.

I would have posted this in the religious section except they have a rule that says nothing is to be posted about any politician. In case you are wondering not a complaint.

George

[PhantomPholly]

Nice job!

[deester]

Way to go!!!

[tocsinia]

Interesting comments about the book contents.
I never would have taken the time to read it.
The devil does come to steal, kill and destroy doesn't he? The ensuing chaos is not simply the byproduct of morons, but planned decimation....
Good job Daddy! Way to stand up for your young man!

[MrShotShot]

I'd be interested in seeing some proof of this. It seems a bit too fanciful to be believed.

[Greyclouds]

Its amazing how you took a dedication that, within context, was a derisive mockery of an allegory, and turned it into the book's sole purpose.

Here's the "dedication:"

“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer"

Clearly sarcasm in the parentheses. Also, "he won his own kingdom," is sarcasm as well. Remember, Satan got "hell" for his resistance. What a kingdom!

I disagree with Alinsky's book; I believe that non-violent resistance is a far better "father" to the "have-nots" obtaining legal legitimacy. Having said that, your mischaracterization of his works based on that sarcasm is... interesting...

[Oddball]

My son is age 7 while the area I live in is mostly conservative in nature a large number of those in our school system a liberals and have no problem crossing the line shoving propaganda down our children's throats. Thankfully not all are that way.

I employed their own tactics against them today. I used the right under freedom of religion that they have pushed so far as to not allow teaching of religious doctrines in schools.

You are probably asking what religious doctrine has to do with not teaching about Obama.

Well as you know Obama worked for ACORN and such based on the Saul David Alinsky models for community activism. Alinsky's son said in a letter to the Chicago Globe that Obama had learned his lessons well during that period.

Saul David Alinsky's plans or model is put forth in the book, "Rules for Radicals." Which just happens to have a dedication to "Lucifer" (Satan) by Alinsky in it. There is reason for this. The book attempts to point out morals are not good for a free society and that establishments must be torn down into chaos before something new can be created from them be it a socialist communist dicatorship and so on. Want to guess what doctrine that came from yes the Satanic Doctrine.

Since you can trace most of Obama's speeches back to the book and doctrine that Alinsky has created which is in effect a rewrite of the Satanic doctrine Obama is preaching and invocing the Satanic Doctrine. Hmmm. Maybe that explains why he thinks it is ok to let a baby die on a table and not give it care even if it survives an abortion or that methods are to be used to exterminate its life. Sounds a lot like human sacrafice of an innocent.

Either way the school decided I was write enough that they only wanted a letter on the issue and will no longer teach anything at all about Obama to my son.

I would have posted this in the religious section except they have a rule that says nothing is to be posted about any politician. In case you are wondering not a complaint.

George
The comma is your friend!! :lol:

[lawandorder]

The comma is your friend!! :lol:

School children across the nation were subjected to learning about President Bush, his "family values", and his "born again" faith. They also learn about all of our other Presidents. For you, however, Obama is off limits to your child. Do I have that right?

[monkeymom]

Not so sure I agree with you on this George - much as I dislike Obama. Naturally I would not support a praise-a-thon, "all glory Obama" and stuff like that - but he is our President and as such is an absolutely valid instructional topic for all grade levels.

[Haplo]

Both Bush Sr. and Jr. based things they did off their Christian beliefs, but evidently that never bothered you enough to similarly try to keep your son's school from teaching about our former presidents.

Hypocrisy...the gift that keeps on giving

[Oddball]

School children across the nation were subjected to learning about President Bush, his "family values", and his "born again" faith.
I don't know that. Care to link to something that puts some meat on that assertion??
For you, however, Obama is off limits to your child. Do I have that right?
I don't have kids.

But what does any of that have to do with what I said about the OP, anyways??

[grhayes]

Not so sure I agree with you on this George - much as I dislike Obama. Naturally I would not support a praise-a-thon, "all glory Obama" and stuff like that - but he is our President and as such is an absolutely valid instructional topic for all grade levels.

Since the beginning of school year the school had large amount of literature praising Obama given to the children. Had a sort of rally in the auditorium to watch the swearing in. All of which was designed to make Obama look good. But they did not do this for bush or any other past president.

[grhayes]

Both Bush Sr. and Jr. based things they did off their Christian beliefs, but evidently that never bothered you enough to similarly try to keep your son's school from teaching about our former presidents.

Hypocrisy...the gift that keeps on giving

well ok, saying you are correct. 99.9% of our laws or more important laws of what we consider moral societies is actually based on Christian 10 commandments.

However, you have liberal lawyers, and the Obama administration using the idea morals are bad for a free society which is what Satanic Doctrine preaches.

What laws are moral laws. How about adultry well we took that off the criminal law list a while back few states these days allow you to sue the partner of your spouse as they used to for loss of companionship. but were does it end.

We can look at Turkey were they cut the right hand off if you are thief. Why it is considered an insult to have to eat and wipe your rear. with the same hand.

but there is eastern societies Stealing is considered a profession.

Back to turkey it is ok to stab someone below the belt line that is not considered attempted murder. So just go and cut that big artery they have on the side of thier leg and it was an accident they died.

But you can go to other places and murder is also a profession. In fact take a look in the Quran what is acceptable. Try beating your wife here according to the Quran it is ok if done lightly. Guess you have to slap them around a bit to keep them in line.

So what morals is it ok to throw out and which ones are not. Well if you are going by the doctrine or book you can actually see Obama carrying all of them.

Maybe, people should have caught a clue when he said it is ok to let a living breathing baby die or that he even encouraged the doctors to extinquish that life. Why because it was a mistake it survived. Well maybe it was a mirical it survived. Who is to say. I don't know if I should right that off to Obama trying to play God or if that is his idea of human sacrafice.

[monkeymom]

Since the beginning of school year the school had large amount of literature praising Obama given to the children. Had a sort of rally in the auditorium to watch the swearing in. All of which was designed to make Obama look good. But they did not do this for bush or any other past president.

It is sad if a school puts the wrong kind of attention to Obama so as to force parents to legitimately takes steps such as you did. I am still not so sure I agree with an absolute moratorium on our President as an educational subject, but you have to judge what is best for your child.

[grhayes]

It is sad if a school puts the wrong kind of attention to Obama so as to force parents to legitimately takes steps such as you did. I am still not so sure I agree with an absolute moratorium on our President as an educational subject, but you have to judge what is best for your child.

I went to the effect of only stopping them on my child. This allows other parents the choice for their own child. I don't want to do like liberals and force my opinion on them as they do on us.

[mboncher]

School children across the nation were subjected to learning about President Bush, his "family values", and his "born again" faith. They also learn about all of our other Presidents. For you, however, Obama is off limits to your child. Do I have that right?
And what liberal teacher with a Gore/Lieberman bumpersticker still on their car (yes I've seen them in school parking lots next to the campaign stickers for the deceased Sen. Wellstone!) would tout the praises of Bush and his (ugh!) Born Again faith?

Horsefeathers on your analogy, sir! I call bs that it would even happen in those shrines to socialism.

[mboncher]

BTW, one of the "African/Muslim" charter schools I drive for has set up a shrine of a bulletin board at the very entrance to the school so every child and person entering it is treated to a wonderful display on what P-Bo the messiah is. I doubt there was one of those to Bush in the US.

The fact that they get public money to teach Islamic faith is another story entirely.

[grhayes]

BTW, one of the "African/Muslim" charter schools I drive for has set up a shrine of a bulletin board at the very entrance to the school so every child and person entering it is treated to a wonderful display on what P-Bo the messiah is. I doubt there was one of those to Bush in the US.

The fact that they get public money to teach Islamic faith is another story entirely.

you should deliver them a care package. With a print of Obama reading the "Rules for Radicals" Book mark the pages in it like the dedication to lucifer and the ones talking about morals are bad for a free society. Then there is the part were he talks about the path isn't as important as the out come because in the end the winner essentially dictates if it was worth it or not...

Then you could include a copy of the Satanic Bible so they can see where it came from.

The get a copy of the Quran and point book mark the section where Satan spoke through Muhammad and he even appoligzed to his followers for it because even they do not like Satan.

Call it a game of connect the dots. You could even try and find a video of the lectures he is teaching out of the book "rules for radicals"

There is a lot of evidence to show the truth Obama is practicing the Satanic Doctrine.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

How whacked.

Why don't you pull your kid from the Satanic School altogether and home-school?

[kasotamatt]

My son is age 7 while the area I live in is mostly conservative in nature a large number of those in our school system a liberals and have no problem crossing the line shoving propaganda down our children's throats. Thankfully not all are that way.

I employed their own tactics against them today. I used the right under freedom of religion that they have pushed so far as to not allow teaching of religious doctrines in schools.

You are probably asking what religious doctrine has to do with not teaching about Obama.

Well as you know Obama worked for ACORN and such based on the Saul David Alinsky models for community activism. Alinsky's son said in a letter to the Chicago Globe that Obama had learned his lessons well during that period.

Saul David Alinsky's plans or model is put forth in the book, "Rules for Radicals." Which just happens to have a dedication to "Lucifer" (Satan) by Alinsky in it. There is reason for this. The book attempts to point out morals are not good for a free society and that establishments must be torn down into chaos before something new can be created from them be it a socialist communist dicatorship and so on. Want to guess what doctrine that came from yes the Satanic Doctrine.

Since you can trace most of Obama's speeches back to the book and doctrine that Alinsky has created which is in effect a rewrite of the Satanic doctrine Obama is preaching and invocing the Satanic Doctrine. Hmmm. Maybe that explains why he thinks it is ok to let a baby die on a table and not give it care even if it survives an abortion or that methods are to be used to exterminate its life. Sounds a lot like human sacrafice of an innocent.

Either way the school decided I was write enough that they only wanted a letter on the issue and will no longer teach anything at all about Obama to my son.

I would have posted this in the religious section except they have a rule that says nothing is to be posted about any politician. In case you are wondering not a complaint.

George

If the school actually bought that nonsense, I wouldn't send my kid there either. Sounds like a nice fantasy ...

[Greyclouds]

well ok, saying you are correct. 99.9% of our laws or more important laws of what we consider moral societies is actually based on Christian 10 commandments.

So when will they prosecute me for adultery? Also, how is it possible for people to work on Saturday/Sunday (depending on when you believe God took a break) and NOT be executed in our society?


However, you have liberal lawyers, and the Obama administration using the idea morals are bad for a free society which is what Satanic Doctrine preaches.

Link or it didn't happen.


What laws are moral laws. How about adultry well we took that off the criminal law list a while back few states these days allow you to sue the partner of your spouse as they used to for loss of companionship. but were does it end.

We can look at Turkey were they cut the right hand off if you are thief. Why it is considered an insult to have to eat and wipe your rear. with the same hand.

but there is eastern societies Stealing is considered a profession.

Back to turkey it is ok to stab someone below the belt line that is not considered attempted murder. So just go and cut that big artery they have on the side of thier leg and it was an accident they died.

But you can go to other places and murder is also a profession. In fact take a look in the Quran what is acceptable. Try beating your wife here according to the Quran it is ok if done lightly. Guess you have to slap them around a bit to keep them in line.

I want you to open your Bible.

Turn to these two books and begin reading: Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

Aren't you glad we do not practice Leviticus law here in the US?


So what morals is it ok to throw out and which ones are not. Well if you are going by the doctrine or book you can actually see Obama carrying all of them.

Maybe, people should have caught a clue when he said it is ok to let a living breathing baby die or that he even encouraged the doctors to extinquish that life. Why because it was a mistake it survived. Well maybe it was a mirical it survived. Who is to say. I don't know if I should right that off to Obama trying to play God or if that is his idea of human sacrafice.

Ah, thought you were going to be a bit more subtle about it! Its really just your aversion to his pro-choice stance after all!

Now, lets go back to your other charges... do you have any substantial links/quotes to back up your assertion that Obama is:

a) Not a Christian
b) Seeking to abolish ALL Christian morals in this nation that have not already been abolished

Do you?

[grhayes]

So when will they prosecute me for adultery? Also, how is it possible for people to work on Saturday/Sunday (depending on when you believe God took a break) and NOT be executed in our society?



Link or it didn't happen.



I want you to open your Bible.

Turn to these two books and begin reading: Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

Aren't you glad we do not practice Leviticus law here in the US?



Ah, thought you were going to be a bit more subtle about it! Its really just your aversion to his pro-choice stance after all!

Now, lets go back to your other charges... do you have any substantial links/quotes to back up your assertion that Obama is:

a) Not a Christian
b) Seeking to abolish ALL Christian morals in this nation that have not already been abolished

Do you?

Well I guess I could do all the work for you or maybe you could just go and google and youtube Obama Anti Christian or anti moral... There is a plenty of videos of him giving speeches on it even going to the point of moching Christianity.

See while I may never convince you regardless what I say at least some people will actually take the time to look for themselves and will find it as I said. That happens to be a lot more powerful than just handing it over to people because as I have experienced plenty of times they just accuse you of making all of it up, including printing book, editing and creating the videos and so on. Which is probably were you would just go.

You can also find the statements he makes in his book about who his mentors are and who he formed his opinion based on and so forth.

You can also look at his work record his claims to being a community organizer and who he worked for.

But no you are the typical liberal who wants someone to do all the work for you aren't you. You will deny anything probably even if God himself put it before you.

[grhayes]

If the school actually bought that nonsense, I wouldn't send my kid there either. Sounds like a nice fantasy ...

Typical of a liberal again. Can't justify or clarify a statement.

[grhayes]

How whacked.

Why don't you pull your kid from the Satanic School altogether and home-school?

The entire school isn't that way the majority of teachers and staff here are actually conservatives. It just happens that the school board and a few over them are liberal.

Why should I have to home school my child if I pay taxes. Are they going refund my tax money. I mean after all I didn't tell them to stop teaching all children I left that up to each child's parents. In other words I didn't do what a liberal would do.

Besides the school system is pathetic enough as it is. My son learned to read at age 3 because of me he has been learning higher math and everything else at home. All of which the school system says they can't teach they must follow the curriculum.

Even though I have primary custody my ex wife is quite Liberal in a lot of ways while she knows he would get a better education at home with my back ground. She insists on him going to a public school. To some extent I also want that it gives a child a better integration in with other children.

If I was to think like you maybe the liberals should take their kids out of school here since they are the minority and let them home school them. But I'm not a liberal and thank God for that.

[brouski]

I went to the effect of only stopping them on my child. This allows other parents the choice for their own child. I don't want to do like liberals and force my opinion on them as they do on us.

Wait, so you've directed the school to exlcude your child in these "activities", whatever they are?

Congratulations on turning your kid into the school pariah. I'm sure you'll say it builds character or something.

[grhayes]

BTW, one of the "African/Muslim" charter schools I drive for has set up a shrine of a bulletin board at the very entrance to the school so every child and person entering it is treated to a wonderful display on what P-Bo the messiah is. I doubt there was one of those to Bush in the US.

The fact that they get public money to teach Islamic faith is another story entirely.

There are Christian schools also that get public money. I think what one needs to look at is they are really getting paid to educate and the religious issue is more of a side note for all those types of schools. The fact that the kids are probably getting a better overall education than they do in a public school may in the end wash out any religious intolerance any faith may teach.

[Greyclouds]

Well I guess I could do all the work for you or maybe you could just go and google and youtube Obama Anti Christian or anti moral... There is a plenty of videos of him giving speeches on it even going to the point of moching Christianity.

Ok, I did google the term that you suggested. Here was the top hit:

http://www.topix.com/forum/state/ok/T6LC6ESI3S0DET45G

"Is Obama the Anti-Christ? Here are the reasons why he is."

That was utterly ridiculous! Obviously you are party to "other" sources of information. Please share them with us.


See while I may never convince you regardless what I say at least some people will actually take the time to look for themselves and will find it as I said. That happens to be a lot more powerful than just handing it over to people because as I have experienced plenty of times they just accuse you of making all of it up, including printing book, editing and creating the videos and so on. Which is probably were you would just go.

I hereby proclaim that Ronald (6 letters) Wilson (6 letters) Reagan (6 letters) was the anti-Christ and it is a google-able "fact!"

Google "Reagan anti Christ" and read the links. It will be more powerful for you to discover by yourself than me to give you the information.

[/sarcasm]Disclaimer: I am not proposing this as truth, but rather to point out how ridiculous it is to accept internet propaganda as truth without primary sources to back it up.


You can also find the statements he makes in his book about who his mentors are and who he formed his opinion based on and so forth.

You can also look at his work record his claims to being a community organizer and who he worked for.

I have and I did. Nowhere did I find any references to Obama being the agent of Satan as you proclaim.


But no you are the typical liberal who wants someone to do all the work for you aren't you. You will deny anything probably even if God himself put it before you.

Sorry, not a liberal.

Oh, and if God does want to give me some evidence of this, he/she/it is more than welcome to present it to me. (I'm a Deist, btw, before you accuse me of atheism as well)

[grhayes]

Ok, I did google the term that you suggested. Here was the top hit:

http://www.topix.com/forum/state/ok/T6LC6ESI3S0DET45G

"Is Obama the Anti-Christ? Here are the reasons why he is."

That was utterly ridiculous! Obviously you are party to "other" sources of information. Please share them with us.



I hereby proclaim that Ronald (6 letters) Wilson (6 letters) Reagan (6 letters) was the anti-Christ and it is a google-able "fact!"

Google "Reagan anti Christ" and read the links. It will be more powerful for you to discover by yourself than me to give you the information.

[/sarcasm]Disclaimer: I am not proposing this as truth, but rather to point out how ridiculous it is to accept internet propaganda as truth without primary sources to back it up.



I have and I did. Nowhere did I find any references to Obama being the agent of Satan as you proclaim.



Sorry, not a liberal.

Oh, and if God does want to give me some evidence of this, he/she/it is more than welcome to present it to me. (I'm a Deist, btw, before you accuse me of atheism as well)

You got 1,990,000 hits and you look at the first one only. You claim you are not a liberal. Ok -then why don't you act like you know how to research a topic.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Obama+Anti+Christian&aq=f
Why don't you try that link first and well start watching more than one of them.

You could also start looking through images like these
http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=21&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS259&q=Obama+%22Rules+for+Radicals%22&start=0&sa=N
Yea, there are a lot. But what is the old saying nothing worth while is gotten easily.

Why don't you buy his books and then go and buy the book "Rules for radicals" and buy a copy of the "Satanic Bible" and start playing connect the dots it is in black and white. Or maybe you expect me to buy them for you also. Seriously at what point are you going to stop expecting people to spoon feed you?

[grhayes]

Wait, so you've directed the school to exlcude your child in these "activities", whatever they are?

Congratulations on turning your kid into the school pariah. I'm sure you'll say it builds character or something.

Oh please missing out on their propaganda ceremonies is not going to hurt him. Besides they had a school vote when the election was going on and 75% of the children voted against Obama even with the school propaganda. He won't be the only one because I have already start showing other parents and they are planning on doing the same thing. There are a few die hard liberals who wont do it but who cares. It is their choice.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

To some extent I also want that it gives a child a better integration in with other children.

Could've fooled me. Ah well. Whatever floats your boat.

[grhayes]

Could've fooled me. Ah well. Whatever floats your boat.

Well I am a product of the education system for military dependents and others because my father was air force. When we finally stopped traveling and my father retired I was in 7th grade. From the day I entered the education system here in the US even taking AP classes I did nothing I learned nothing. I spent 7th grade to 12th sleeping.

My first year of college was pretty much as disappointing. i found the professors catering to the slowest dumbest lump of human flesh in class. More than half the lecture hours would get wasted trying to beat a small concept into a minuscule brain.

So I left college and went into the Naval Nuclear Program. Got out and hoped that changing colleges and the time would have improved them. Far be it. They got worse and have continued to do so since. I wont say it is true of all colleges I have heard some promising things from friends of mine who attended other colleges. But that has been my experience.

The only real benefit I see to public education is Children are exposed to more than just a few people they learn more social skills some good and some bad.

I do have friends who say substituting after school activities is the simple answer such as sports and so on. Which makes sense because the class room really isn't supposed to be a social event either though. But also sending your child to a public school helps build some independence as well. They are not always attached to your arm that way.

My ex-wife's excuse verses her reason given are pretty far apart. It was part of her way of getting back at me for getting primary custody. She is dating a registered sexual predator and violated court orders not to bring my son around him.

[blueskiesmom]

At some point you all need to read Alinsky's writing and those of his organization, The Industrial Areas Foundation...once you read the source material you'll realize this parent did a wise and courageous thing. If you can't see the problem, you need to cut back on the Obama koolaid and just be honest that you agree with socialism and don't agree with the principles of a constitutional republic. But, being offensive and ignorant really doesn't fool anyone as to what you're about. I say it's time we all start standing up or we're going to lose the freedom we've known and history will mock our generation and rightfully so.

[Haplo]

well ok, saying you are correct. 99.9% of our laws or more important laws of what we consider moral societies is actually based on Christian 10 commandments.

However...<snip>However? However what? This is my point exactly! Teacher led instrution about Bush Jr. never bothered you enough to get it stopped due to your objecting to your perception of his religious alignment. Why? Because you agreed with his and not what you believe Obama's to be?

That's what I take from your own words regarding your decison and the posts in this thread and that's why I stand by my call of hypocrisy on your part.

And for the record I'm not a democrat, liberal or otherwise, and actualy voted for both Bush's all three elections. The second time with Bush Jr. it was for the lesser of two evils as the saying goes and by the end of his second term I started to wonder if instead of the lesser I got the greater. I didn't vote for anyone this cycle as I couldn't muster any support for either McCain or Obama. However I'm willing to give our president the benefit of the doubt and wait and see just as I did the second time with Bush.

[Haplo]

At some point you all need to read Alinsky's writing and those of his organization, The Industrial Areas Foundation...once you read the source material you'll realize this parent did a wise and courageous thing. If you can't see the problem, you need to cut back on the Obama koolaid and just be honest that you agree with socialism and don't agree with the principles of a constitutional republic. But, being offensive and ignorant really doesn't fool anyone as to what you're about. I say it's time we all start standing up or we're going to lose the freedom we've known and history will mock our generation and rightfully so. Sorry, I don't agree with hypocrisy regardless of the source :hand:

He stated his reasons for doing what he did and he also expalined the method he used to do it. Both are hypocritical and to be honest I don't believe his motivation to be what he says it was but that's neither here nor there.

If that makes me a "Obama koolaid drinking" and/or a "socialist who hates a constitutional republic" then so be it. I've already learned from my years on this board that you can't be a "great American" if you dare to disagree with the vocal majority on this board particularly in areas of morals and religion.

And they call us koolaid drinkers who tollerate no deviation? :))

[grhayes]

<snip>However? However what? This is my point exactly! Teacher led instrution about Bush Jr. never bothered you enough to get it stopped due to your objecting to your perception of his religious alignment. Why? Because you agreed with his and not what you believe Obama's to be?

That's what I take from your own words regarding your decison and the posts in this thread and that's why I stand by my call of hypocrisy on your part.

And for the record I'm not a democrat, liberal or otherwise, and actualy voted for both Bush's all three elections. The second time with Bush Jr. it was for the lesser of two evils as the saying goes and by the end of his second term I started to wonder if instead of the lesser I got the greater. I didn't vote for anyone this cycle as I couldn't muster any support for either McCain or Obama. However I'm willing to give our president the benefit of the doubt and wait and see just as I did the second time with Bush.

Ok, I think I can put this in better perspective. There is a couple of ways to address your answer. There is no such thing as a person with out a religion. Even an atheist when he finally is questioned on a stand and asked how he knows there is no God is left with one of two answers he believes or he has faith there is no God. Belief and Faith are what defines a religion not who you do or do not worship.

The only real choice we have is if the religion is aligned with the Morals and such we can agree with. The rest is dressing.

Look at most civilized societys their laws are based on morals created from their religion. Look at most uncivilized societies be it through out history or the few tribes that exist in extremely remote locations today they have a lack of laws and morals.

Do you honestly feel that our society would be better off with no morals and no laws and that it is right to destroy what is currently working with nothing to replace it with or just to turn it into what you want yourself regardless what others want? Because that is what is in those books that is what the Satanic Doctrine teaches that is what Alinsky and Obama have been spreading.

It isn't so much it is just a religion. That was simply the tool I used to stop them. Why because they used it first. It was the disregard and the hatred and the lies and all the rest of the bad crap Obama is trying to spread and teach that is at issue. Even if it was not attached to a religion I would still be against it. The fact that it was gave me the firepower to use against them. They couldn't argue against it because it would mean all those court case they went through to get Christianity out of our public school would be torn appart.

[AmericanSpirit]

What where they saying about Obama that bothers you?

[grhayes]

What where they saying about Obama that bothers you?

As to what they were saying they are trying to portray him as some great person. They are trying to shove political views on peoples children do you not think that is the parents choice not theirs.

But the big issue again:
Is Obama derives most his speeches and plans form, "Rules for Radicals" by Saul David Alinsky. Which is dedicated to "Lucifer" (Satan). Why because it is derived from the Satanic Doctrine. It teaches Morals are bad for a free society, that you should not worry about the path you take to come to an end result because only the winner rights if it was worth it or not, selfishness is not a bad thing, that it is necessary to destroy a system so you can rebuild it into what you want be it a socialist or communist dictatorship. It gives no regard to what the populace or majority want it teach you should lie, lie , and lie to convince the masses however possible to follow you.

All those speeches about change came from that book. All his plans from that book.

Why would I want my son exposed to the Satanic Doctrine and what it teaches.

[Greyclouds]

You got 1,990,000 hits and you look at the first one only. You claim you are not a liberal. Ok -then why don't you act like you know how to research a topic.

Oh I HAD looked at more than the first hit. The first hit was actually descriptive of the first couple of pages of "best hits."


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Obama+Anti+Christian&aq=f
Why don't you try that link first and well start watching more than one of them.

Hahaha! You are undone in your own link! Watch this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiaG2jBRv0E

Clear expose of how the majority of that first page of youtube hits is an accumulation of rumor, and manipulation.


You could also start looking through images like these
http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=21&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS259&q=Obama+%22Rules+for+Radicals%22&start=0&sa=N
Yea, there are a lot. But what is the old saying nothing worth while is gotten easily.

Are you kidding? You displayed a google images search url and expected me to jump to the conclusion that they're all connected?

Here is a google image search for my previous point:

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS259&q=Reagan+anti+christ&btnG=Search+Images

Very telling, huh? Again, this is NOT ME CONDEMNING PRESIDENT REAGAN. This is simply to illustrate the point that association in this context is NOT "research" as you suggest.


Why don't you buy his books and then go and buy the book "Rules for radicals" and buy a copy of the "Satanic Bible" and start playing connect the dots it is in black and white. Or maybe you expect me to buy them for you also. Seriously at what point are you going to stop expecting people to spoon feed you?

Here's how logic goes:

1. You present your opinion and back it up with facts.

2. I present my opinion and back it up with facts.

3. Etc.


Here's what happened in this thread:

1. You present your opinion with a tenuous link between Saul Alinsky's "satanic" predisposition (his reference to Lucifer was sarcasm; you missed his joke. Do you understand?) and Obama's reading of "Rules for Radicals."

2. I pointed out that Alinsky was making fun of the dogmatic depiction of Satan for his book, and references to Obama as "anti-christian" and "satanic" were misleading or untrue.

3. You provided further "context" only including google search terms.

4. I provided a counter-example where Ronald Reagan could be mistaken as the anti-christ in the same regard.

[grhayes]

Oh I HAD looked at more than the first hit. The first hit was actually descriptive of the first couple of pages of "best hits."



Hahaha! You are undone in your own link! Watch this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiaG2jBRv0E

Clear expose of how the majority of that first page of youtube hits is an accumulation of rumor, and manipulation.



Are you kidding? You displayed a google images search url and expected me to jump to the conclusion that they're all connected?

Here is a google image search for my previous point:

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS259&q=Reagan+anti+christ&btnG=Search+Images

Very telling, huh? Again, this is NOT ME CONDEMNING PRESIDENT REAGAN. This is simply to illustrate the point that association in this context is NOT "research" as you suggest.



Here's how logic goes:

1. You present your opinion and back it up with facts.

2. I present my opinion and back it up with facts.

3. Etc.


Here's what happened in this thread:

1. You present your opinion with a tenuous link between Saul Alinsky's "satanic" predisposition (his reference to Lucifer was sarcasm; you missed his joke. Do you understand?) and Obama's reading of "Rules for Radicals."

2. I pointed out that Alinsky was making fun of the dogmatic depiction of Satan for his book, and references to Obama as "anti-christian" and "satanic" were misleading or untrue.

3. You provided further "context" only including google search terms.

4. I provided a counter-example where Ronald Reagan could be mistaken as the anti-christ in the same regard.

You missed the point again. No one should have to go through and hand pick stuff for you to look at. You should be capable of going through and weeding out what is and is not true on your own. In other words. As a conservative I am not going to sit here and spoon feed you bit by bit. Because if you were truly anything other than liberal there would be no need to do so.

As to that short video it took one 15 second portion of a lot longer video and that is all they could say was misrepresented. Yet, it really didn't even miss represent him it just added more images to it of Obama and the way he had been dressed and was photographed. The images added were not doctored or altered even. If I remember correctly they are even in the time life book on him. I think that is the book I glancd through at the book store yesterday.

Of course Obama also went to the wailing wall and try to play Jewish also.

Why not look at his own writing. Go buy his book. Start reading his speeches, get a copy of "Rules for Radicals" and so on.

Or is it fear that stops you from actually looking for what is wrong on your own. That as long as someone else says something you can dismiss it. But if you go and you find the problem yourself are you going to write yourself off as crazy or that you are just wrong. That is why you don't do it because if you do find it then you got to admit to either you were wrong about him or that you must have some sort of issue to have found that wrong. Your entire ability to deny it comes crumbling down.

[grhayes]

"My ex-wife's excuse verses her reason given are pretty far apart. It was part of her way of getting back at me for getting primary custody. She is dating a registered sexual predator and violated court orders not to bring my son around him. "


Divorce and pedophilia. You guys are great. COO COO COO COO

Either you don't know how to read or just are a troll either way who cares.

[Haplo]

Ok, I think I can put this in better perspective. There is a couple of ways to address your answer. There is no such thing as a person with out a religion. Even an atheist when he finally is questioned on a stand and asked how he knows there is no God is left with one of two answers he believes or he has faith there is no God. Belief and Faith are what defines a religion not who you do or do not worship.Atheism for the majority is more accurately a lack of belief. I have no reason to believe there is a god but I'm open to the possibility of being wrong. And this lack of belief is equally distributed too. I find just as little reason to believe in Odin, Shiva, Zeus, or Ra as I do the god you believe in. I'm betting you don't believe in those others either.

This lack of beleif is rooted in the same reason why I don't believe in Mermaids or Centaurs or Santa. Lack of compelling evidence to support their existence.

The only real choice we have is if the religion is aligned with the Morals and such we can agree with. The rest is dressing.Most religions have common morals which are by and large shared by atheists. The difference being we don't base our morality on a deity or even specific teachings like Budism does.

There's also the choice wether or not not to enshrine specific morals into our legal code. I for one believe in fewer laws and for the laws that have to exist to be as least restrictive as possible.

Look at most civilized societys their laws are based on morals created from their religion. Look at most uncivilized societies be it through out history or the few tribes that exist in extremely remote locations today they have a lack of laws and morals.False. ALL societies have morals and laws. Some don't need the teachings of a diety to base them on and some will be contrary to your morals. That doesn't negate their existence.

Do you honestly feel that our society would be better off with no morals and no laws and that it is right to destroy what is currently working with nothing to replace it with or just to turn it into what you want yourself regardless what others want? Because that is what is in those books that is what the Satanic Doctrine teaches that is what Alinsky and Obama have been spreading.As I said, ALL societies have morals and laws no matter how conflicting they may be to yours. I have no doubt that I would disagree with you over what things are working and what things aren't. And that would lead to a disagreement over what is the disease and what is the remedy. I also wouldn't be suprised if I would get labeled things like un-american and immoral by you for those disagreements, just as I have by others on this board.

It isn't so much it is just a religion. That was simply the tool I used to stop them. Why because they used it first. It was the disregard and the hatred and the lies and all the rest of the bad crap Obama is trying to spread and teach that is at issue. Even if it was not attached to a religion I would still be against it. The fact that it was gave me the firepower to use against them. They couldn't argue against it because it would mean all those court case they went through to get Christianity out of our public school would be torn appart.At least you're finaly being honest about your motivation. Funny how when it comes right down to it you're willing to use the same tactics you claim to despise to attack those you despise. You're willing to be dishonest and underhanded to get your way but make a point of finger pointing when someone on the other side does the same. Change the name of the President from Obama to Bush and this could easily be coming out of the mouth of a eeeevil liberal.

And that is the root of my claim of hypocricy.

And lastly, Christianity is a belief. You can't bar a belief because its not a physical thing that can be detected by our senses. And as of yet we don't have the technology to divine people's thoughts. Christianity is everywhere there are practicioners and last I checked there are still Christians in our public schools

[Greyclouds]

You missed the point again. No one should have to go through and hand pick stuff for you to look at. You should be capable of going through and weeding out what is and is not true on your own. In other words. As a conservative I am not going to sit here and spoon feed you bit by bit. Because if you were truly anything other than liberal there would be no need to do so.

It's not "spoon-feeding" when you supply evidence to support your assertions.

Also, again, I am not a liberal despite having an opposite opinion to your own in this regard. I do not believe that Obama is a Satanist regardless of your misinterpretation of the opening preface of "Rules for Radicals."


As to that short video it took one 15 second portion of a lot longer video and that is all they could say was misrepresented. Yet, it really didn't even miss represent him it just added more images to it of Obama and the way he had been dressed and was photographed. The images added were not doctored or altered even. If I remember correctly they are even in the time life book on him. I think that is the book I glancd through at the book store yesterday.

You didn't watch the youtube clip, did you? The "we are not a Christian nation, at least, not just" portion of the speech reaffirms a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights as to a US citizen's right to practice any faith or lack thereof.

The Ad clearly edited the speech to great lengths, including the above portion.


Of course Obama also went to the wailing wall and try to play Jewish also.

So? George W. Bush and Laura Bush went to the wailing wall.

Were they "playing Jewish?" Your statement is highly prejudiced.

http://www.mmstudio-web.com/ydanel/celebrities.htm


Why not look at his own writing. Go buy his book. Start reading his speeches, get a copy of "Rules for Radicals" and so on.

I have read the "Audacity of Hope." I have only read portions of "Rules for Radicals." I am being honest here.

However, your contention with "Rules for Radicals" seems to be with the opening dedication of the book. Can you at least admit that you were wrong for not recognizing obvious sarcasm?


Or is it fear that stops you from actually looking for what is wrong on your own. That as long as someone else says something you can dismiss it. But if you go and you find the problem yourself are you going to write yourself off as crazy or that you are just wrong. That is why you don't do it because if you do find it then you got to admit to either you were wrong about him or that you must have some sort of issue to have found that wrong. Your entire ability to deny it comes crumbling down.

I don't think that you should presume much about my character or motives, in this regard. I do disagree with some of Obama's steps that he's taken thus far in the office of the presidency. However, it has only been a month since he's taken office and the hysterics about him destroying the nation have not ceased in the least.

[grhayes]

Atheism for the majority is more accurately a lack of belief. I have no reason to believe there is a god but I'm open to the possibility of being wrong. And this lack of belief is equally distributed too. I find just as little reason to believe in Odin, Shiva, Zeus, or Ra as I do the god you believe in. I'm betting you don't believe in those others either.

This lack of beleif is rooted in the same reason why I don't believe in Mermaids or Centaurs or Santa. Lack of compelling evidence to support their existence.

Most religions have common morals which are by and large shared by atheists. The difference being we don't base our morality on a deity or even specific teachings like Budism does.

There's also the choice wether or not not to enshrine specific morals into our legal code. I for one believe in fewer laws and for the laws that have to exist to be as least restrictive as possible.

False. ALL societies have morals and laws. Some don't need the teachings of a diety to base them on and some will be contrary to your morals. That doesn't negate their existence.

As I said, ALL societies have morals and laws no matter how conflicting they may be to yours. I have no doubt that I would disagree with you over what things are working and what things aren't. And that would lead to a disagreement over what is the disease and what is the remedy. I also wouldn't be suprised if I would get labeled things like un-american and immoral by you for those disagreements, just as I have by others on this board.

At least you're finaly being honest about your motivation. Funny how when it comes right down to it you're willing to use the same tactics you claim to despise to attack those you despise. You're willing to be dishonest and underhanded to get your way but make a point of finger pointing when someone on the other side does the same. Change the name of the President from Obama to Bush and this could easily be coming out of the mouth of a eeeevil liberal.

And that is the root of my claim of hypocricy.

And lastly, Christianity is a belief. You can't bar a belief because its not a physical thing that can be detected by our senses. And as of yet we don't have the technology to divine people's thoughts. Christianity is everywhere there are practicioners and last I checked there are still Christians in our public schools

I have to take issue with the idea Atheism is not a faith. Having a God is not a requirement of a religion. A faith or believe in a certain set of principles is. I also say you have to have a stronger faith in most case than many people do that are religious. Why because if you are wrong and say any one of those religious faiths is correct you have more to loose. Most people seek out some sort of religion they were indoctrinated to or seems to feel right with them it supports their values because they worry that their is some sort of after life or something they will have to answer to.

For me it was the reverse test. I am a person of science, Nuclear physics, chemistry, physics, computer science, electronics engineering... No matter how far I got in science I ran into a wall. Who knows maybe one day it will be explained maybe not.
But the big bang theory fails to explain what existed before that. They used to think the universe was a cycle. Today they now know of dark matter and dark energy and the universe isn't slowing down as was required for the old theory to be true but instead is speeding up. The complete opposite of what would be happening if it was just an explosion even if it recycle into black holes and kept endlessly happening. I could go into all the issue on QM as well that isn't the topic here.

Your wrong not all cultures have laws or even a moral base. There is tribes in South America that kill each other at whim even killed visiting missionaries. There are literally no standing laws of protection property life or anything not between tribe or even family.

Most societies have some sort of law as brutal or archaic as it may be. Most societies that have laws also get them from religious believes their societies have. It has really been the last 2 centuries that societies have started moving the religious portion away from the legal and government. Primary because of abuses of religious powers in effecting peoples rights.

Morals are also a belief usually adopted by a society. Should we allow killing of just anyone we choose? How about is it ok for people to come and just take your property? I know the government seems to think so today especially since we have Obama in office. He portrays himself as a modern day Robin Hood but he is more like the Sheriff of NoddingHam and is robing the Hood.

[Getty Girl]

[quote=lawandorder;49755391]School children across the nation were subjected to learning about President Bush, his "family values", and his "born again" faith.

the children were subjected to learning about those pesky wicked horrible family values...?*LMAO*

[The Bos'un]

My son is age 7 while the area I live in is mostly conservative in nature a large number of those in our school system a liberals and have no problem crossing the line shoving propaganda down our children's throats. Thankfully not all are that way.

I employed their own tactics against them today. I used the right under freedom of religion that they have pushed so far as to not allow teaching of religious doctrines in schools.

You are probably asking what religious doctrine has to do with not teaching about Obama.

Well as you know Obama worked for ACORN and such based on the Saul David Alinsky models for community activism. Alinsky's son said in a letter to the Chicago Globe that Obama had learned his lessons well during that period.

Saul David Alinsky's plans or model is put forth in the book, "Rules for Radicals." Which just happens to have a dedication to "Lucifer" (Satan) by Alinsky in it. There is reason for this. The book attempts to point out morals are not good for a free society and that establishments must be torn down into chaos before something new can be created from them be it a socialist communist dicatorship and so on. Want to guess what doctrine that came from yes the Satanic Doctrine.

Since you can trace most of Obama's speeches back to the book and doctrine that Alinsky has created which is in effect a rewrite of the Satanic doctrine Obama is preaching and invocing the Satanic Doctrine. Hmmm. Maybe that explains why he thinks it is ok to let a baby die on a table and not give it care even if it survives an abortion or that methods are to be used to exterminate its life. Sounds a lot like human sacrafice of an innocent.

Either way the school decided I was write enough that they only wanted a letter on the issue and will no longer teach anything at all about Obama to my son.

I would have posted this in the religious section except they have a rule that says nothing is to be posted about any politician. In case you are wondering not a complaint.

George
I do not want to burst your bubble, but, President Obama will be taught in your school and the teachers union will support him.

Further more, you can bank on it that the 22nd Amendment will be repealed leaving the way for a Chavez ~ Venezuelan style government to be installed in the USA.

We are seeing a sweeping change flow across our country. Keep believin' that you will be a "positive impact for change."

And like the other children
You're gonna dream, a dream or two
But be careful what your dreamin
Soon your dreams'll be dreamin you.....


Courtesy, Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson

It's Not Supposed to Be That Way Lyrics by Waylon Jennings (http://www.cduniverse.com/lyrics.asp?id=199593)G_d bless and preserve the United States of America (against all enemies foreign and domestic) :flag:

[The Bos'un]

http://ts2.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=391378124045&id=5cb8072c5e049561dc84b9ebed51b48b
May Saul burn in __________! (http://truediscernment.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/saul-alinsky_dedication.gif)

[grhayes]

I do not want to burst your bubble, but, President Obama will be taught in your school and the teachers union will support him.

Further more, you can bank on it that the 22nd Amendment will be repealed leaving the way for a Chavez ~ Venezuelan style government to be installed in the USA.

We are seeing a sweeping change flow across our country. Keep believin' that you will be a "positive impact for change."

G_d bless and preserve the United States of America (against all enemies foreign and domestic) :flag:

We are at the two month mark now. By 6 months we will be at civil war unless Obama and his minions are out of office. For Obama to repeal the 22nd amendment he knows he has to effectively silence the people right to oppose him. That means the first and second have to go effectively. Next will be the fourth amendment.

We know this because every single dictator that has gained control in history did those effective things. Hitler for example started off promising we will take away the guns from the people to make this a safer nation. Then we will give people tasks and jobs to keep them from being idle, building roads, and bridges,and rail ways... then came there are people among us who seek out to cause chaos and rebellion.... there went freedom of speech. The the right to trials for people declared enemy of the state and so on...

Want to guess how close the rest of them did the same thing Stalin, Mussolini, ...

Then comes the best part they seek out who is opposition and kill them. Russia the streets ran red with blood they say.

George Hayes

[vinson52]

I am currently attending high school and for three years the majority of my teachers were and still are Anti-Bush Anti-Conservative in one way or another. If you do not believe our future generations are being trained into a socialist mindset then you need to review our school systems again.

My own classmates have no education in politics except for what they may see in the headlines. Many hate Bush though they cannot name anything he did in office. They all cheered on Obama with no real reason why they did, and currently are still in the after shock of it all with their heads in the clouds as if America is being brought into some type of golden age.

I wonder how many more high school students are apart of this also. I am glad someone is trying to limit the amount of pro-Obama that is filling the classrooms but I dont really see this being a good way of doing it.

[reckaje]

Dude, you are nuckin futs.

If you really believe this backwoods garbage, I feel sorry for you. You are the reason mothers like octomom should have to pass a basic aptitude test before being able to reproduce. When you have a million stupid people like yourself and half of them breed, it multiplies the stupid by 1 thousand fold, you see what I am getting at? Please don't have children....for us all

[grhayes]

Dude, you are nuckin futs.

If you really believe this backwoods garbage, I feel sorry for you. You are the reason mothers like octomom should have to pass a basic aptitude test before being able to reproduce. When you have a million stupid people like yourself and half of them breed, it multiplies the stupid by 1 thousand fold, you see what I am getting at? Please don't have children....for us all

This is the typical response of a liberal. No substance at all no actual cognitive thinking went into this just slander slander slander. Why don't you use your mind to actually read the books, and prove me wrong. Why not find the evidence to disprove my claims. At least come up with something semi sound other than name calling and the basic simple dismissal that so many liberals do. Or do you have a problem with thinking for yourself, or doing a little research to prove your point? Seriously I hope you were educated to were you can create an argument with some sort of sound basis to return back to me with you are only so far help proving my point I have on liberals on this thread http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1338001

Hope to hear back from you with a better statement next time.

[grhayes]

I am currently attending high school and for three years the majority of my teachers were and still are Anti-Bush Anti-Conservative in one way or another. If you do not believe our future generations are being trained into a socialist mindset then you need to review our school systems again.

My own classmates have no education in politics except for what they may see in the headlines. Many hate Bush though they cannot name anything he did in office. They all cheered on Obama with no real reason why they did, and currently are still in the after shock of it all with their heads in the clouds as if America is being brought into some type of golden age.

I wonder how many more high school students are apart of this also. I am glad someone is trying to limit the amount of pro-Obama that is filling the classrooms but I dont really see this being a good way of doing it.

I know the schools all around Houston have the issue. The issues is even worse to the point a lot of students are worried about violence if they speak out. If that is happening in Texas I imagine it is a lot worse other places.

[Stuball]

We are at the two month mark now. By 6 months we will be at civil war unless Obama and his minions are out of office. For Obama to repeal the 22nd amendment he knows he has to effectively silence the people right to oppose him. That means the first and second have to go effectively. Next will be the fourth amendment.

We know this because every single dictator that has gained control in history did those effective things. Hitler for example started off promising we will take away the guns from the people to make this a safer nation. Then we will give people tasks and jobs to keep them from being idle, building roads, and bridges,and rail ways... then came there are people among us who seek out to cause chaos and rebellion.... there went freedom of speech. The the right to trials for people declared enemy of the state and so on...

Want to guess how close the rest of them did the same thing Stalin, Mussolini, ...

Then comes the best part they seek out who is opposition and kill them. Russia the streets ran red with blood they say.

George Hayes
Can I laugh at you when we are not in a Civil War by July?

[grhayes]

Can I laugh at you when we are not in a Civil War by July?

Be my guess.

By that time:
1. Something will have changed to fix things.
2. The situation will be a crap load worse the market is already on the way down to 6000
3. There is already militias forming, people are stock piling food and ammo
4. Massive arrest will have taken place. I promise they come for me. There are going to be a lot more than my life that gets lost.
I bet there are a lot of others equally trained and knowledgeable as I am willing to use force to make that point.
5. If they don't take me down on the first attempt you can bet to hell it is on. I will not hold back.

[The Bos'un]

Reckaje will find out the hard way. Rec, I feel bad for you and all the fair weather sailors and foul weather merchants who are riding the roller coaster to hell.

I am 60 years old and will be sitting in my rocker when you are getting your just reward for ignoring what made America great. I feel bad for my sons and really bad for all the little children. But there are good times after the bad......

We all know the rest of the story. It was written a couple thousand years ago in the Book of Revelations. We are definitely living close to if not in the end times.

Bout all I can say to the left of centers is **** off, mate.

[The Bos'un]

Stu, we will not be in a Civil War in July, but, you gotta admit that the USA is in a tight spiral downward and all those who hate us are cheering at what they see. It is not BOOOSH or Reagan, or the conservative movement, my friend. Those who will see the death of America hated us long before Reagan and Bush. They have been planning the downfall of the western world for a long time and have made game runs on the west every few hundred years.

Na, we will not be at civil war in July, we are going to be the sheeple lead to the slaughter by forces greater than us. The left will be too busy apologizing and appeasing to realize what the **** is happening until it is too late.

[The Bos'un]

I sure hope your wrong grhayes. I still have a few things to do before the US turns into **** city.

[Haplo]

I have to take issue with the idea Atheism is not a faith. Having a God is not a requirement of a religion. A faith or believe in a certain set of principles is. And what are the certain set of principles that Atheists live by? How about one principle that unites them into a faith or religion?

For me it was the reverse test. I am a person of science, Nuclear physics, chemistry, physics, computer science, electronics engineering... No matter how far I got in science I ran into a wall. Who knows maybe one day it will be explained maybe not.
But the big bang theory fails to explain what existed before that. The difference then between us is it doesn't bother me to not know what came before that anymore then it doesn't bother me to not know the exact steps of evolution. If it turns out that all the science is crap and everything was created 6k years ago by the Christian God, I won't change my life as I could care less. If that destines me for hell, so be it. I'd rather be punished for who I am then rewarded for what I'm not.

[Stuball]

Be my guess.

By that time:
1. Something will have changed to fix things.
2. The situation will be a crap load worse the market is already on the way down to 6000
3. There is already militias forming, people are stock piling food and ammo
4. Massive arrest will have taken place. I promise they come for me. There are going to be a lot more than my life that gets lost.
I bet there are a lot of others equally trained and knowledgeable as I am willing to use force to make that point.
5. If they don't take me down on the first attempt you can bet to hell it is on. I will not hold back.
Someone may come for you but it wont be to arrest you

[grhayes]

And what are the certain set of principles that Atheists live by? How about one principle that unites them into a faith or religion?

The difference then between us is it doesn't bother me to not know what came before that anymore then it doesn't bother me to not know the exact steps of evolution. If it turns out that all the science is crap and everything was created 6k years ago by the Christian God, I won't change my life as I could care less. If that destines me for hell, so be it. I'd rather be punished for who I am then rewarded for what I'm not.

Atheist - is a person who does not believe in God or any supernatural...
Agnostics - are basically unsure
Theist - is a person who believes in one faith or another.

The fact that these all have definitions show a common set of principles and characteristics. So as an Atheist you are still carrying a religion it is just most your beliefs are in science and not a God.

I don't believe the 6K years ago either. I don't believe science holds all the answers and I don't believe that everything based on religion is entirely true. There is the concept of a day in heaven is like a thousand years on earth. It would make more sense if it was a billion years. But looking at the time when that was first written can you imagine trying to get the average individual to comprehend that large of number. Granted a few people through out history have understood math. But how many people 200 years ago understood it so well, then start looking backwards.

There is a part of the bible that says, "test everything," I take that as to even test the bible. After all it is copied over and over again who is to say in what subtle ways it can be tampered with.

[Jmoore29]

I know the schools all around Houston have the issue. The issues is even worse to the point a lot of students are worried about violence if they speak out. If that is happening in Texas I imagine it is a lot worse other places.
I am a conservative and am working on getting my teaching certificate. It is going to be easier to take my 2 bachelors degrees to a master level than teach in high schools. My professors hate me for rejecting their pro-Obama agenda, and speaking out against all of this crap. It is reassuring to hear of high school students thinking for themselves.

[Stuball]

I am a conservative and am working on getting my teaching certificate. It is going to be easier to take my 2 bachelors degrees to a master level than teach in high schools. My professors hate me for rejecting their pro-Obama agenda, and speaking out against all of this crap. It is reassuring to hear of high school students thinking for themselves.
:boohoo::boohoo:

[The Bos'un]

not right now. but the thought police are out there.

[The Bos'un]

:)) that was a good one :))

[Haplo]

Atheist - is a person who does not believe in God or any supernatural...
Agnostics - are basically unsure
Theist - is a person who believes in one faith or another.

The fact that these all have definitions show a common set of principles and characteristics. So as an Atheist you are still carrying a religion it is just most your beliefs are in science and not a God.By those definitions I'd be a apathetic agnostic and I'm not sure if there is a god or not and frankly not inclined to change my life to that diety's liking even if I was given proof that one existed.

Science doesn't guide my morals the way a religion or even a non-theistic moral code like Buhdism does for their followers.

Finding out this or that holy book is 100% true wouldn't change the obligations I feel towards myself and my family and wouldn't do anything to help me meet those. I grew up in a Christian home and my dad even taught adult sunday school for many years. I'm now the black sheep of my family for leaving church but as the saying goes this above all else, to thine own self be true. If I discuss matters regarding Christianity and it's influence on society more then other religions, it's because it's the one I know the best.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

From the day I entered the education system here in the US even taking AP classes I did nothing I learned nothing. I spent 7th grade to 12th sleeping.

My first year of college was pretty much as disappointing. Why? Why didn't you take some responsibility for your own learning? Did you expect them to spoon-feed you? :lol:

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Be my guess.

By that time:
1. Something will have changed to fix things.
2. The situation will be a crap load worse the market is already on the way down to 6000
3. There is already militias forming, people are stock piling food and ammo
4. Massive arrest will have taken place. I promise they come for me. There are going to be a lot more than my life that gets lost.
I bet there are a lot of others equally trained and knowledgeable as I am willing to use force to make that point.
5. If they don't take me down on the first attempt you can bet to hell it is on. I will not hold back.
:)) :))


*whew*

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

There is a part of the bible that says, "test everything," I take that as to even test the bible. After all it is copied over and over again who is to say in what subtle ways it can be tampered with.
So even the Bible is in on the conspiracy :eek:

[lawandorder]

I'm not complaining about students learning those "pesky" values. You missed my point totally.

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

If I thought a school was teaching my kid Satanic values, I'd pull them out.

[captusa]

:)) :))


*whew*

Chicken Little with guns and ammo!
That does scare me.

[Jmoore29]

Yes, I get your reply and maybe I would like some cheese with my wine. Yet I am trying to make the point that young people of this country need to be able to think for themselves. The point of public education is to build a base for responsible voters, you can offer something to this country.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I'd be interested in seeing some proof of this. It seems a bit too fanciful to be believed.

A BIT too fanciful?

[Dr. Funkenstein]

If I forward this to 10 of my friends, do I get great fortune or just good sex?

[CaffeineHat]

Since the beginning of school year the school had large amount of literature praising Obama given to the children. Had a sort of rally in the auditorium to watch the swearing in. All of which was designed to make Obama look good. But they did not do this for bush or any other past president.
The school where I teach spends EVERY inauguration day with t.v.s on in the classroom and lessons built around civics in the U.S. Our government is a great teaching tool whether you agree with the leaders or not. If your school was truly engaging in propaganda that's one thing, but to engineer it so that there can never be a lesson about the current president crosses a line IMHO. You have essentially become part of the problem instead of working with the school to come to mutual agreement. Are you saying that our children should not be taught about anything that we don't like? Sounds like a fairly shallow curriculum. I'm glad you're proud of your success. I would much rather have a curriculum where my child is encouraged to form opinions for himself based on what I teach him at home rather than censoring a school's curriculum. People complain about the public school system but here you describe a situation where ONE parent is mad about something and rather than using this as a teachable moment for your child, you went to school to fight a battle for him. If you take pride in this, you can never complain about the fact that schools don't teach independent thought based solely on your own model.

[cowboy]

The school where I teach spends EVERY inauguration day with t.v.s on in the classroom and lessons built around civics in the U.S. Our government is a great teaching tool whether you agree with the leaders or not. If your school was truly engaging in propaganda that's one thing, but to engineer it so that there can never be a lesson about the current president crosses a line IMHO. You have essentially become part of the problem instead of working with the school to come to mutual agreement. Are you saying that our children should not be taught about anything that we don't like? Sounds like a fairly shallow curriculum. I'm glad you're proud of your success. I would much rather have a curriculum where my child is encouraged to form opinions for himself based on what I teach him at home rather than censoring a school's curriculum.


I couldn't agree more.

[soulhunter59]

I have a question for all you conservatives out there. WHY DON'T YOU WANT YOUR KIDS TO ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING? It's like you don't want them to have a mind of their own or something. I see Rush and Hannity standing up and calling for the destruction of the printed word. They don't want you to read newspapers and learn current events so you can't develop a mind of your own.
Meanwhile newspapers all over the US are going out of business and people are losing their jobs.
So please let your kids read learn and grow. Subscribe to your local newspaper and if anything just read them the comic section. I started reading newspapers because I loved Luann. It’s not propaganda to teach them what’s going on in the world even if you don't always agree with it.

[gunslingingmama]

I have a question for all you conservatives out there. WHY DON'T YOU WANT YOUR KIDS TO ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING? It's like you don't want them to have a mind of their own or something. I see Rush and Hannity standing up and calling for the destruction of the printed word. They don't want you to read newspapers and learn current events so you can't develop a mind of your own.
Meanwhile newspapers all over the US are going out of business and people are losing their jobs.
So please let your kids read learn and grow. Subscribe to your local newspaper and if anything just read them the comic section. I started reading newspapers because I loved Luann. It’s not propaganda to teach them what’s going on in the world even if you don't always agree with it.
How can our children learn what is going on if main stream media and liberal educators dictates what they hear and see?
Think about our current society.

[mboncher]

I have a question for all you conservatives out there. WHY DON'T YOU WANT YOUR KIDS TO ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING? It's like you don't want them to have a mind of their own or something. I see Rush and Hannity standing up and calling for the destruction of the printed word. They don't want you to read newspapers and learn current events so you can't develop a mind of your own.
Meanwhile newspapers all over the US are going out of business and people are losing their jobs.
So please let your kids read learn and grow. Subscribe to your local newspaper and if anything just read them the comic section. I started reading newspapers because I loved Luann. It’s not propaganda to teach them what’s going on in the world even if you don't always agree with it.
You obviously don't listen. Newspapers are failing because of the internet and BAD publishing policy. They are obsolete, just like buggy makers and haymarkets are. I can get the information I need without their editorial bs inserted as "news" when it's fascist propaganda and opinion.

Schools, which all children are required by law to go, have become indoctrination camps run by the left in many regards with very little choice for those who do not agree with their philosophy. If possible, I'd rather have any children I have homeschooled with a curriculum in the humanities from the 1940's when they were required to read Plato, and Socrates, than go to a health class where they are required to learn to accept homosexuality and how to put on condoms and how white culture is inherently evil.

I refuse to prop up failing fascist cheerleaders.

[Amallek]

That is the silliest argument that could ever be made.

[Army of 1]

I don't have a problem with doing a few things differently because of the significance of the election. I do not agree with his politics but I am proud that our country looked beyond color and elected a President. I really wondered if we ever could.
My question is when he becomes the second coming of Jimmy Carter what will we do? Will we cover his demise as carefully as we did his assent? I tell my own kids every day that I think he is a great man but I don't think his politics will work.
I am really waiting for public schools to cover ronald reagan. I am from Illinois and we still do not do much on him. I am from a farm implement area that reagan saved from extinction. Yet our school kids do not get that in school.

not all schools or teachers are facist cheerleaders and why would private school teachers be any different