Did you rob God last payday?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

[psyko kat]

this one particular church I use to go to, wanted me to sign a 'pledge card', stating that I would -donate- a certain amount of$$, ./
I refused to sign it ,and told them I would give what I could,/ which their response was, that I HAD to give them what everyone else was giving,' which equaled about $100.00 or more a week.// I walked out and never returned.

[RayMan]

this one particular church I use to go to, wanted me to sign a 'pledge card', stating that I would -donate- a certain amount of$$, ./
I refused to sign it ,and told them I would give what I could,/ which their response was, that I HAD to give them what everyone else was giving,' which equaled about $100.00 or more a week.// I walked out and never returned.

Good for you!

[psyko kat]

another church I tried, had services on Weds, Thurs, and of course SUN,/ one 'Sunday, the preacher was telling the congregation, that if he doesn't see us there on weds, that he was gonna call us up and ask why we weren't at church../ I didn't stay there very long either.

[Navy Nuke]

I'm not sure how to take that, it seems like you are just trying to make a joke out of it. If you are serious, I would have to disagree with some of your premises.

Yes, many Christians give out of what's left from their paycheck rather than giving first and fulfilling their wants last. Its a symptom of people going more by what the world says than what the Bible says. They want to have the latest gadget to keep up with the Jones of the world.

And God does not command us to attend church. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Christianity is about the relationship with God on that personal basis. The fellowship that we have with others is a tool used to help us and others grow in our walk. Iron sharpens iron. Just as praying and reading your Bible help you grow.


this one particular church I use to go to, wanted me to sign a 'pledge card', stating that I would -donate- a certain amount of$$, ./
I refused to sign it ,and told them I would give what I could,/ which their response was, that I HAD to give them what everyone else was giving,' which equaled about $100.00 or more a week.// I walked out and never returned.

That church is lost, IMO. You can only give what you can and you should only give what God leads you to give.

[psyko kat]

I didn't spend my money on gadgets, I payed bills, my house payment, bought food, car payment, all the ''need too's''.

[Semi-Sweet]

The first and best of all we receive belongs to God, we often hear.

No, WE belong to God. We first give ourselves. Then we provide for ourselves. Jesus was less than complimentary of the person who would let his parents remain in need because he gave his money to God instead of caring for them. . . Mark 7:9-13. "If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" See 1 Timothy 5:3-8.

Charity begins at home. If I deprive myself or my family in order to "give" I am not honoring God. Neither would I honor God if my "giving" prevented me from paying my debts.

Would it be worshipful giving if one gives to the church so the church can provide for a needy family? Then, is not God honored in worshipful service more when one provides for the needs of his own family, kin, or neighbor?

The needs of you and your family are not itemized in a sort of legal document, so it is left to your discernment in appropriating your money. Knowing that His yoke is easy and His burden is light, you can believe that God intends that we enjoy a quiet and peaceful life.

Money spent for your family's needs is just as much worshipful giving as it it were put in the church treasury. The appropriation of your money for family use depends on your unselfishness and wisdom even as those are determining factors needful for the church to properly use the money you give in the collection.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.


:eh: Why the Hell would I have done something stupid like that?



As to your bit on tithing. Every payday I cash my entire paycheck, bring the money home, throw it up in the air. What God want's, he keeps, I deposit the rest.

With the current days of direct deposit, I may start throwing my pay stub in the air and letting God just auto-deduct what he needs. Like the government.

[Greyclouds]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

Whose face is on the Dollar?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Ceasar's

[Greyclouds]

Ceasar's

Then give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.


(Good catch! :D)

[TaylorW65]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

One of the reasons I stopped going to church was messages like this. Using guilt to make people feel bad, with a little threat of hell fire thrown in for good measure, in order to control their behavior.

[Koushi Shinigami]

How does putting money in a collection plate at church equal giving it to God?

[terri910]

How does putting money in a collection plate at church equal giving it to God?
One hopes that the money, when combined with donations from others, can do even more good.

But I'm sure it does not HAVE to be put into a collection plate to be "given to God."

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, you do unto Me." (Matthew 25:40)

[Koushi Shinigami]

One hopes that the money, when combined with donations from others, can do even more good.

But I'm sure it does not HAVE to be put into a collection plate to be "given to God."

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, you do unto Me." (Matthew 25:40)

Ayup. :hug:

[Koushi Shinigami]

this one particular church I use to go to, wanted me to sign a 'pledge card', stating that I would -donate- a certain amount of$$, ./
I refused to sign it ,and told them I would give what I could,/ which their response was, that I HAD to give them what everyone else was giving,' which equaled about $100.00 or more a week.// I walked out and never returned.

:clap:

Sounds more like a club than a church. "Make sure you get your dues in on time..."

[TaylorW65]

:clap:

Sounds more like a club than a church. "Make sure you get your dues in on time..."

Exactly, and the OP sounded like nothing but a guilt producing pledge drive.

[Koushi Shinigami]

No comment.

I will say that it did not inspire or motivate me to run down to church today, checkbook in hand.

[Quid]

What does God need money for?

and in that same vein:

[James T. Kirk] WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP?![/James T. Kirk]

[psyko kat]

What does God need money for?

and in that same vein:

[James T. Kirk] WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP?![/James T. Kirk]

:)) I remember that episode.

[Quid]

:)) I remember that episode.

EPISODE?! That was a movie, kiddo. ;)

[captusa]

One of the reasons I stopped going to church was messages like this. Using guilt to make people feel bad, with a little threat of hell fire thrown in for good measure, in order to control their behavior.

Pat Robertson keeps quoting people that grew richer after they went through serious financial difficulty tithing.
I guess he didn't quote the ones that became homeless.

[psyko kat]

EPISODE?! That was a movie, kiddo. ;)

well.yeh, that's what I meant, lol.

[Quid]

Pat Robertson keeps quoting people that grew richer after they went through serious financial difficulty tithing.
I guess he didn't quote the ones that became homeless.

Why would he? Who wants to hear from someone who didn't pray hard enough?

[captusa]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.
.....

Did you rob God last payday?

OR Did God rob you last payday?

[Quid]

Did you rob God last payday?

OR Did God rob you last payday?

Only in Soviet Russia. :razz:

[captusa]

Why would he? Who wants to hear from someone who didn't pray hard enough?

We are talking about tithing.
Don't you mean:
Who wants to hear from someone who didn't PAY hard enough ?

BTW I do believe Mr. Robertson "prays" very hard but my spelling is not too good.

[5thIDSoldier]

I'm not sure how to take that, it seems like you are just trying to make a joke out of it. If you are serious, I would have to disagree with some of your premises.

Yes, many Christians give out of what's left from their paycheck rather than giving first and fulfilling their wants last. Its a symptom of people going more by what the world says than what the Bible says. They want to have the latest gadget to keep up with the Jones of the world.

And God does not command us to attend church. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Christianity is about the relationship with God on that personal basis. The fellowship that we have with others is a tool used to help us and others grow in our walk. Iron sharpens iron. Just as praying and reading your Bible help you grow.


That church is lost, IMO. You can only give what you can and you should only give what God leads you to give.

Uh, what about "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves togther..." per Paul. Although it is not a command.....

[Stuball]

The OP sounds like what I hear Televangelists say

[captusa]

Only in Soviet Russia. :razz:

????????
That one went over my head.

[Quid]

????????
That one went over my head.

Eh, an old Yakov Smirnoff reference

[drbob]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.


I scanned thirty some posts, and as far as I can tell, no one has agreed with the OP-- until now.

I agree with almost everything he said. He has rightly divided the Biblical commandments pertaining to tithing. Whether you look at Cain's sacrifice verses Abel's sacrifice, the example of Abraham with Melchesidec, the widow's two mites, the story of the rich young ruler, or Christ's teachings about paying taxes-- we are to give of the "firstfruits" of our increase.

Whoever pointed to the example of Caesar's inscription obviously does not understand the context of the answer Christ gave... Christ was asked if it was "lawful to pay tribute unto Caesar." That is a question and answer about paying taxes, nothing else.

Proverbs 3:9, "Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:"

If one tithes off their net, then the government has received the "firstfruits" and the person is out of Biblical order. If the person spends on taxes first, mortgage second, car payment third, Walmart fourth, grocery store fifth, and tithes sixth... Have they given the "firstfruits of their increase?" No they have not. Tithing 10% of one's gross is the only way to tithe back 10% of the "firstfruits."

I am not going to say that robbing God will make someone impoverished... but I would question the salvation and commitment of anyone who would willfully rob God as the OP described.

Hebrews 10:25!!

[Koushi Shinigami]

we are to give of the "firstfruits" of our increase.



Tithing 10% of one's gross is the only way to tithe back 10% of the "firstfruits."


I disagree.

'Increase' implys 'profits'. That would be net after expenses.

If I plant 100 bushels of grain and harvest 300 bushels, the increase is 200 bushels. So the tithe would be 20 bushels.

[RayMan]

<snip>

I am not going to say that robbing God will make someone impoverished... but I would question the salvation and commitment of anyone who would willfully rob God as the OP described.

Hebrews 10:25!!

So, they might not suffer financially but they probably aren't saved.


:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[cmorlan]

What does God need money for?

and in that same vein:

[James T. Kirk] WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP?![/James T. Kirk]

With Money God's church can send money to poor pay for blankets for homeless build houses for homeless families and the other things the church is supposed to be doing but isn't.

[drbob]

I disagree.

'Increase' implys 'profits'. That would be net after expenses.

If I plant 100 bushels of grain and harvest 300 bushels, the increase is 200 bushels. So the tithe would be 20 bushels.


The "expenses," in your example is a cost of good sold. That is not the same as taking a paycheck spending it on everything else under the sun then tithing from whatever is left.

Another thing is this... you had to pay money to buy the 100 bushels. Did you pay 10% tithes on the gross of the income that you later spent at the seed store?

[psyko kat]

The OP sounds like what I hear Televangelists say
like this,....
Genesis/ Jesus,He knows me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-rfCnW5VlE&feature=channel_page

[Koushi Shinigami]

So, they might not suffer financially but they probably aren't saved.


:rolleyes::rolleyes:

If one believes that, then by definition, they (the non-thithers) will be suffering eventually.

[psyko kat]

With Money God's church can send money to poor pay for blankets for homeless build houses for homeless families and the other things the church is supposed to be doing but isn't.

Then why are there still so many 'homeless' using newspapers as blankets.

[drbob]

So, they might not suffer financially but they probably aren't saved.


:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Yes, I would seriously question the salvation and commitment of a person who willfully robbed God.

I pay my 10% off my gross. In my heart and mind, 10% of my gross is a small price to pay-- considering the price that Christ paid for me!!!

Know what I mean????

[Koushi Shinigami]

The "expenses," in your example is a cost of good sold. That is not the same as taking a paycheck spending it on everything else under the sun then tithing from whatever is left.

There are legitimate expenses to be able to work. Transportation, food, clothing, equipment, training. The increase would be what is left after those expenses are paid for.


Another thing is this... you had to pay money to buy the 100 bushels. Did you pay 10% tithes on the gross of the income that you later spent at the seed store?

In my example, the farmer grows his own seed stock.

[drbob]

There are legitimate expenses to be able to work. Transportation, food, clothing, equipment, training. The increase would be what is left after those expenses are paid for.




In my example, the farmer grows his own seed stock.


If I were the farmer, I would tithe 30 bushels...

There is an old story about a guy who told God that it was unfair that he tithed 20,000 dollars a year on a 200,000 dollar salary when everyone else in his church was tithing just 3,000 dollars. The Lord said, "That is fine, I'll just cut your salary back to 30,000 dollars so you can be like everyone else. That will be fair."


Moral of the story: Don't curse your blessings!

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Yes, I would seriously question the salvation and commitment of a person who willfully robbed God.

I pay my 10% off my gross. In my heart and mind, 10% of my gross is a small price to pay-- considering the price that Christ paid for me!!!

Know what I mean????



Ditto. We reap what we sow. What great rewards we will have in heaven for investing in Gods kingdom. We will have salvation which is priceless plus we will have untold riches.

[captusa]

Ditto. We reap what we sow. What great rewards we will have in heaven for investing in Gods kingdom. We will have salvation which is priceless plus we will have untold riches.

Do you mean if we sow booze and broads we reap booze and broads ?

Maybe Heaven is OK.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

this one particular church I use to go to, wanted me to sign a 'pledge card', stating that I would -donate- a certain amount of$$, ./
I refused to sign it ,and told them I would give what I could,/ which their response was, that I HAD to give them what everyone else was giving,' which equaled about $100.00 or more a week.// I walked out and never returned.


I am sorry about your bad experience. There are a few churches that abuse their authority. Trying to force a member to sign a pledge card to donate a fixed amount of money is wrong. It is one thing if a church that makes members sign a an agreement stipulates that members agree to tithe ten percent of their income with any other rules that church members should adhere too. It is quite another to demand income tax returns or demand members disclose income.

I hope you forgive them for this transgression. However we should all attend and support a local bible believing church. We all need to be fed spiritually and nourished. Our brothers and sisters are blessed with our presence and vice versa. I pray that God leads you to another church and reconsider your committment.

[Semi-Sweet]

Yes, I would seriously question the salvation and commitment of a person who willfully robbed God.

I pay my 10% off my gross. In my heart and mind, 10% of my gross is a small price to pay-- considering the price that Christ paid for me!!!

Know what I mean????

Somehow this post reminds me of Luke 18:9-14. . . . "Jesus told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and regarded others with contempt: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income. But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even look up to heaven, but was beating his breast and saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner! I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other; for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted."

Matthew 6:1. . ."Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret: and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

Those who give from the heart and do the most, don't want it to be known. And these are the ones who would never advise another as to how much they should give. The New Covenant of Grace is not ruled by percentages, it is ruled by love.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

And God does not command us to attend church. I'm not sure where you are getting that from.


The king of kings and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ came down from heaven to earth in the form of a man. He humbled himself and was baptised by John even though he was sinless. He further humbled himself and went to the church (synagogue) and waited his turn to speak. If he God almighty could humble himself to worship with men we have no excuse when we neglect the house of God. He told Peter that on this rock I will build my church. He did not build his church so we stay at home and do our own thing. Paul warned us not to neglect the gathering of Christians in the assembly. The bible instructs us to submit to those in authority over us. He was refering to pastors and leaders in the church. There are numerous references to the early church thruout the new testament.

If we cannot submit to authority here on earth we are rebelling against Gods authority over both heaven and earth. We must both believe and obey.

[RayMan]

Yes, I would seriously question the salvation and commitment of a person who willfully robbed God.

I pay my 10% off my gross. In my heart and mind, 10% of my gross is a small price to pay-- considering the price that Christ paid for me!!!

Know what I mean????

Yes I know what you mean and don't doubt your sincerity for a moment.

But if you aren't sending your tithe to Jerusalem so there will be food in His house there you are still robbing God if you want to use Malachi 3 as the basis for your argument.

You can't just up and decide that your local church is the storehouse mentioned in Malachi 3 and also say that you are obeying Malachi 3.

Why don't you become a New Covenant giver and quit judging other Christians because they don't keep rules from a covenant they are not part of?

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 for I know your readiness, of which I glory on your behalf to them of Macedonia, that Achaia hath been prepared for a year past; and your zeal hath stirred up very many of them.
2Co 9:3 But I have sent the brethren, that our glorying on your behalf may not be made void in this respect; that, even as I said, ye may be prepared:
2Co 9:4 lest by any means, if there come with me any of Macedonia and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be put to shame in this confidence.
2Co 9:5 I thought it necessary therefore to entreat the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your aforepromised bounty, that the same might be ready as a matter of bounty, and not of extortion.

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound unto you; that ye, having always all sufficiency in everything, may abound unto every good work:
2Co 9:9 as it is written, He hath scattered abroad, he hath given to the poor; His righteousness abideth for ever.
2Co 9:10 And he that supplieth seed to the sower and bread for food, shall supply and multiply your seed for sowing, and increase the fruits of your righteousness:
2Co 9:11 ye being enriched in everything unto all liberality, which worketh through us thanksgiving to God.

2Co 9:12 For the ministration of this service not only filleth up the measure of the wants of the saints, but aboundeth also through many thanksgivings unto God;
2Co 9:13 seeing that through the proving of you by this ministration they glorify God for the obedience of your confession unto the gospel of Christ, and for the liberality of your contribution unto them and unto all;
2Co 9:14 while they themselves also, with supplication on your behalf, long after you by reason of the exceeding grace of God in you.
2Co 9:15 Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Money spent for your family's needs is just as much worshipful giving as it it were put in the church treasury. The appropriation of your money for family use depends on your unselfishness and wisdom even as those are determining factors needful for the church to properly use the money you give in the collection


Its amazing how man rationalizes away Gods commands. God commanded us to give ten percent to him. Obeying God involves trusting him to meet our needs. He is a big God. He created both the heavens and the earth. Every hair of our head is numbered. He knows your needs and your familys needs. Put him first in your life and he will meet your needs. Tithing to God should be an ongoing. There are many who have alot less than us who are much more faithful with the little they have. If you can't trust God with your money how can you say you trust him with your life? God can work miracles and create wealth out of nothing to meet our needs.

God commands us to give faithfully. Your local bible believing church is accountable to God. Don't try to micromanage what the church does with its funds. Unless you see something completely off the wall such as church funds being used for gambling or booze let the church do its job.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

One of the reasons I stopped going to church was messages like this. Using guilt to make people feel bad, with a little threat of hell fire thrown in for good measure, in order to control their behavior.

There is only opinion that counts and that is God. He gave us his word so we would know who we are and we we are going. The bible shows us the history of man. The bible contains the words of life we need to abide by. We all need to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We need to obey his commands. That includes attending church. We all need to tithe back to God. He does not need our money but he wants to test our obedience. Did you ever stop to think that all of the food that we eat is due to God constantly bringing growth to plants and animals? That same God wants to meet our needs with the same faithfulness.

God gave you free will in regards to behavior. If we will not obey his commands we do not love him. These are small things to ask considering what Christ has done for us. He loves us and commands these things for our benefit.

[Semi-Sweet]

Its amazing how man rationalizes away Gods commands. God commanded us to give ten percent to him. Obeying God involves trusting him to meet our needs. He is a big God. He created both the heavens and the earth. Every hair of our head is numbered. He knows your needs and your familys needs. Put him first in your life and he will meet your needs. Tithing to God should be an ongoing. There are many who have alot less than us who are much more faithful with the little they have. If you can't trust God with your money how can you say you trust him with your life? God can work miracles and create wealth out of nothing to meet our needs.

God commands us to give faithfully. Your local bible believing church is accountable to God. Don't try to micromanage what the church does with its funds. Unless you see something completely off the wall such as church funds being used for gambling or booze let the church do its job.

Tithing 10% of our earnings every week is a commandment of men.

This concept incorrectly distinguishes between what is God's and what is ours. It segregates life into the religious and the secular. That, however, is not true holiness through complete dedication to God. That is dedication of ten percent of the capabilities that he give us, instead of a whole-life service.

How can you measure love by percentages?

The tithe must not be considered as a measurement of righteousness or as God's portion of our lives. It should not be used as a guilt-manipulating tool to raise money.

God loves a cheerful giver, not a dutiful payer!

[WALKINGHADLEY]

What does God need money for?


Nothing. He is not dependant on us. He commanded us to give faithfully to him to test our faith. Its an ongoing thing. He loves to bless us for being faithful. If we put God first in our life he will meet our needs. The bible says where your treasure is there will your heart be. Put your treasure in the almighty. He controls the sea and the air as well as the wind. He hung the heavens on a sheet. He causes the earth to spin at a fixed rate and holds the planet in balance.

The same God who created the heavens and the earth came and died for your sins. He loved you so much he shed his precious blood on the cross so you could be forgiven. He can deliver you from this sinful lifestyle. If you cry out to him he will answer!

[Koushi Shinigami]

The king of kings and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ came down from heaven to earth in the form of a man. He humbled himself and was baptised by John even though he was sinless. He further humbled himself and went to the church (synagogue) and waited his turn to speak. If he God almighty could humble himself to worship with men we have no excuse when we neglect the house of God. He told Peter that on this rock I will build my church. He did not build his church so we stay at home and do our own thing. Paul warned us not to neglect the gathering of Christians in the assembly. The bible instructs us to submit to those in authority over us. He was refering to pastors and leaders in the church. There are numerous references to the early church thruout the new testament.

If we cannot submit to authority here on earth we are rebelling against Gods authority over both heaven and earth. We must both believe and obey.

I prefer to go to the church that God built with His own hands.

[drbob]

Somehow this post reminds me of Luke 18:9-14. . . . "Jesus told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and regarded others with contempt: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income. But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even look up to heaven, but was beating his breast and saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner! I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other; for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted."

Matthew 6:1. . ."Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret: and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

Those who give from the heart and do the most, don't want it to be known. And these are the ones who would never advise another as to how much they should give. The New Covenant of Grace is not ruled by percentages, it is ruled by love.


So you are saying that it is okay to rob God of tithes and offerings. Correct?

I am merely stating that there is, IMHO, a Biblical mandate for giving 10% of our first fruits. I only mentioned that I gave 10% when it became relevant to the conversation. The first 30 or so replies stated that it was okay to give after someone has paid for everything else. The logical extension is that it is okay to relegate the importance and value of tithing to something less than the purchase of a Big Mac extra value meal.

I don't know about where you live, but there are churches here in my area that cannot afford to keep the doors open or the lights on. I don't guess the electric company accepts hugs and other tokens of affection. It seems the electric company still likes money. Go figure.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Then why are there still so many 'homeless' using newspapers as blankets.
__________________



Lets not blame God for the homeless. If you surveyed those who are homeless you might find a common trait. None of those who are homeless were tithing when they did have jobs and a home. Many homeless are chronically homeless due to mental illness. Some constantly refuse to be helped with churches and social agencys. Our hearts go out to families who end up on the streets and individuals who have lost their jobs thru no fault of their own.

Lets take out some eternal insurance. Put God first in your life and give him back what is his. He can provide our needs thru good times and bad. Join the family of God and be faithful to meet your brothers and sisters. They will pray for you and meet your needs and you can do likewise.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

The OP sounds like what I hear Televangelists say
__________________



There are some televangelists who preach the truth but not all. There are some who preach giving to benefit themselves. We Christians are to support our local bible believing church. If one wants to give on top of that to some worthy group or ministry thats OK but he local church comes first. Any ministry who preaches otherwise is to be avoided.

[drbob]

Yes I know what you mean and don't doubt your sincerity for a moment.

But if you aren't sending your tithe to Jerusalem so there will be food in His house there you are still robbing God if you want to use Malachi 3 as the basis for your argument.

You can't just up and decide that your local church is the storehouse mentioned in Malachi 3 and also say that you are obeying Malachi 3.

Why don't you become a New Covenant giver and quit judging other Christians because they don't keep rules from a covenant they are not part of?

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 for I know your readiness, of which I glory on your behalf to them of Macedonia, that Achaia hath been prepared for a year past; and your zeal hath stirred up very many of them.
2Co 9:3 But I have sent the brethren, that our glorying on your behalf may not be made void in this respect; that, even as I said, ye may be prepared:
2Co 9:4 lest by any means, if there come with me any of Macedonia and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be put to shame in this confidence.
2Co 9:5 I thought it necessary therefore to entreat the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your aforepromised bounty, that the same might be ready as a matter of bounty, and not of extortion.

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound unto you; that ye, having always all sufficiency in everything, may abound unto every good work:
2Co 9:9 as it is written, He hath scattered abroad, he hath given to the poor; His righteousness abideth for ever.
2Co 9:10 And he that supplieth seed to the sower and bread for food, shall supply and multiply your seed for sowing, and increase the fruits of your righteousness:
2Co 9:11 ye being enriched in everything unto all liberality, which worketh through us thanksgiving to God.

2Co 9:12 For the ministration of this service not only filleth up the measure of the wants of the saints, but aboundeth also through many thanksgivings unto God;
2Co 9:13 seeing that through the proving of you by this ministration they glorify God for the obedience of your confession unto the gospel of Christ, and for the liberality of your contribution unto them and unto all;
2Co 9:14 while they themselves also, with supplication on your behalf, long after you by reason of the exceeding grace of God in you.
2Co 9:15 Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.


Should I pick some arbitrary percentage that is easier for me to pay? Should I quit tithing all together? Should I teach my Sunday school class that they too can decide what is easiest for them? Should I go ahead and draft letters of apology to the missionaries that our church supports?

Here is a question for you... If a man professed to be a Christian but he continued to lie, cuss, steal, cheat, carry on an adulterous relationship, and was found to be a serial killer, would you question his salvation and his commitment to Christ?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

God loves a cheerful giver, not a dutiful payer!

Yes he does love a cheerful giver. If we love God we will obey his commands. It is joyful to obey God even when our lives are full of uncertainty. Being faithful means giving steadily. This is not to suggest that we can "buy" favors or salvation. No salvation is a gift thru Jesus Christ.

[Semi-Sweet]

Where is the Bible mandate for giving 10% under the New Covenant of Grace?

The tithe was a tax. . .an income tax. Paying taxes is not "giving." If the tithe is a lawful requirement, then paying tithes is law-keeping. Whether you call the Old Covenant requirement a principle of guidance in giving or a law, it becomes a legalistic quota system by which one fulfills that obligation. It becomes a part of a legal system of righteousness.

Cruden's Concordance distinguishes the kinds of tithes. "There were three sorts of tithes to be paid from the people (besides those from the Levites to the priests) Numbers 18:26.27.

1) To the Levites for their maintenance. . .Numbers 18:21,24

2) For the Lord's feasts and sacrifices, to be eaten in the place where the Lord should choose to put his name there; to wit, where the ark should be, the tabernacle or temple. This tenth part was either sent to Jerusalem in kind, or, if it was too far, they sent the value in money, which was to be laid out for oxen, sheep, wine, or what else they pleased, Deuteronomy 14:22,23,24.

3) Besides these two, there was to be, every third year, a tithe for the poor, to be eaten in their own dwellings. . .Deuteronomy 14:28,29. In the New Testament, neither our Saviour, nor his apostles have commanded any thing in this affair of tithes." Some of the tithe was used to supply food and wine for their festive gatherings! An interesting "principle" for our giving!

Tithing was mentioned before Moses and the Law. After Abraham had defeated the five kings, he gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the booty taken in war. . .Genesis 14:20. Is that an example for us to give a tenth. . .of the spoils of war? And to whom would we need to give it since the king of Salem is no longer around? And what did Melchizedek use it for? Jacob vowed to give God back a tenth of all by which God prospered him if God would bless him in Mesopotamia. . .Genesis 28:22. Are we supposed to make a similar bargain with God?

And to whom would we need to give it in order to route it to God? Neither Jesus nor any inspired writer pointed to those as examples or principles for us to follow.

It seems to me that those who know the least about what God requires from His children are the ones who talk the most and holler the loudest, all the while professing to be speaking for God.

[Koushi Shinigami]

If you surveyed those who are homeless you might find a common trait. None of those who are homeless were tithing when they did have jobs and a home.



I would love to see some hard data to back that statement up.



Lets take out some eternal insurance.


Giving to God, expecting something in return, is a very, very poor reason to give to God.

[RayMan]

Should I pick some arbitrary percentage that is easier for me to pay? Should I quit tithing all together? Should I teach my Sunday school class that they too can decide what is easiest for them? Should I go ahead and draft letters of apology to the missionaries that our church supports?

Here is a question for you... If a man professed to be a Christian but he continued to lie, cuss, steal, cheat, carry on an adulterous relationship, and was found to be a serial killer, would you question his salvation and his commitment to Christ?

Instead of hypotheticals why don't we look at the fact that tithing is not a New Testament doctrine? If you aren't sending your tithe to the temple in Jerusalem you aren't obeying Malachi 3 and are still robbing God. Your church is not being run by the Levitical priesthood is it? (No smart alecks need answer....you know who you are Reeder.)

Got any other parts of Jewish law you keep on a weekly basis? If you really want to be a Jew you should consider going B'nai Noach.

[Chuangtzu]

No. He did lose to me three hands in a row, though. Lousy poker face, that God.

[bobfisher]

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Instead of hypotheticals why don't we look at the fact that tithing is not a New Testament doctrine? If you aren't sending your tithe to the temple in Jerusalem you aren't obeying Malachi 3 and are still robbing God. Your church is not being run by the Levitical priesthood is it? (No smart alecks need answer....you know who you are Reeder.)

Got any other parts of Jewish law you keep on a weekly basis? If you really want to be a Jew you should consider going B'nai Noach.


Good point.

[Semi-Sweet]

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Luke 5:37-38. . ."And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins."

[bobfisher]

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

[bobfisher]

Luke 5:37-38. . ."And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins."

Amen!

[Semi-Sweet]

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Amen! :cool:

[drbob]

Tithing was mentioned before Moses and the Law. After Abraham had defeated the five kings, he gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the booty taken in war. . .Genesis 14:20. Is that an example for us to give a tenth. . .of the spoils of war? And to whom would we need to give it since the king of Salem is no longer around? And what did Melchizedek us it for? Jacob vowed to give God back a tenth of all by which God prospered him if God would bless him in Mesopotamia. . .Genesis 28:22. Are we supposed to make a similar bargain with God?

It seems to me that those who know the least about what God requires from His children are the ones who talk the most and holler the loudest, all the while professing to be speaking for God.


You say that those who know the least about God holler the loudest... Perhaps you have proven my point, not yours.

You say, "And to whom would we need to give it since the king of Salem is no longer around?"

Who do you think the KING OF SALEM is?

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 5:6, "As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 6:20, "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:17, "For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:21, "(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)"


Semi... The order of Melchizedec lives for ever through Christ. If Abraham thought it good to tithe to Melchizedec, should it not be good for us to do as Abraham did seeing as how the order of Melchizedec is perpetual and for ever through Christ?

[RayMan]

You say that those who know the least about God holler the loudest... Perhaps you have proven my point, not yours.

You say, "And to whom would we need to give it since the king of Salem is no longer around?"

Who do you think the KING OF SALEM is?

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 5:6, "As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 6:20, "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:17, "For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:21, "(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)"


Semi... The order of Melchizedec lives for ever through Christ. If Abraham thought it good to tithe to Melchizedec, should it not be good for us to do as Abraham did seeing as how the order of Melchizedec is perpetual and for ever through Christ?


----------

Dude,
Does this mean we all have to send our tithe to Salt Lake City?

[RayMan]

drbob,
Since you get into the whole Melchizedek thing in Heb 7 I am surprised that you don't quote the passage concerning tithes.

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there one, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And, so to say, through Abraham even Levi, who receiveth tithes, hath paid tithes;
Heb 7:10 for he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:11 Now if there was perfection through the Levitical priesthood (for under it hath the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be reckoned after the order of Aaron?

The writer of Hebrews embracing two different time frames says here, (presently) men who die, the LEVITES receive tithes,whereas there, (in Abraham's day) Melchizedek received them.

The tithe is still a JEWISH thing at the time of the writing of Hebrews. Not a CHRISTIAN thing.

[drbob]

Instead of hypotheticals why don't we look at the fact that tithing is not a New Testament doctrine? If you aren't sending your tithe to the temple in Jerusalem you aren't obeying Malachi 3 and are still robbing God. Your church is not being run by the Levitical priesthood is it? (No smart alecks need answer....you know who you are Reeder.)

Got any other parts of Jewish law you keep on a weekly basis? If you really want to be a Jew you should consider going B'nai Noach.


Why, if tithing is not a New Testament doctrine, did Christ praise the widow for tithing her 2 mites? Why didn't He run to her side to set her straight? Why didn't He give her back her 2 mites and tell her to go spend her money at Walmart?

[drbob]

drbob,
Since you get into the whole Melchizedek thing in Heb 7 I am surprised that you don't quote the passage concerning tithes.

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there one, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And, so to say, through Abraham even Levi, who receiveth tithes, hath paid tithes;
Heb 7:10 for he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:11 Now if there was perfection through the Levitical priesthood (for under it hath the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be reckoned after the order of Aaron?

The writer of Hebrews embracing two different time frames says here, (presently) men who die, the LEVITES receive tithes,whereas there, (in Abraham's day) Melchizedek received them.

The tithe is still a JEWISH thing at the time of the writing of Hebrews. Not a CHRISTIAN thing.

Is the author not saying that even Levi and the descendants of Levi (through Abraham) paid tithes to the order of Melchizedek? Isn't this the authors way of expressing the superiority of the order of Melchizedek to the Levitical priesthood?

[RayMan]

Is the author not saying that even Levi and the descendants of Levi (through Abraham) paid tithes to the order of Melchizedek? Isn't this the authors way of expressing the superiority of the order of Melchizedek to the Levitical priesthood?

Yep. But he says nothing of a tithe like that under the law bearing a curse if not paid. Interesting thing about Malachi 3 is that some Christian scholars feel that God is berating the Levites because they were not distributing the tithes to the poor, widows and orphans as they were supposed to, and because of that the nation was cursed.

Regardless, the writer of Hebrews used the tithe to draw a picture the Hebrew Christians would be familiar with to give them a better understaning of the sort of priest Jesus is.

He talks of who got tithed to - once - by Abraham in the dim past, who received tithes in their current day, sometime before the fall of the Temple in ad 70 - the Levites and doesn't say anything about tithing as an ongoing Christian duty which, by the way, also just happened to carry an Old Testament curse if you didn't pay it.


I am all for cheerful and even sacrificial giving to the work of the gospel. When I hear Christian preachers threaten the children of God with a curse in order to fill the offering plate I gag.

[drbob]

Yep. But he says nothing of a tithe like that under the law bearing a curse if not paid. Interesting thing about Malachi 3 is that some Christian scholars feel that God is berating the Levites because they were not distributing the tithes to the poor, widows and orphans as they were supposed to, and because of that the nation was cursed.

Regardless, the writer of Hebrews used the tithe to draw a picture the Hebrew Christians would be familiar with to give them a better understaning of the sort of priest Jesus is.

He talks of who got tithed to - once - by Abraham in the dim past, who received tithes in their current day, sometime before the fall of the Temple in ad 70 - the Levites and doesn't say anything about tithing as an ongoing Christian duty which, by the way, also just happened to carry an Old Testament curse if you didn't pay it.


I am all for cheerful and even sacrificial giving to the work of the gospel. When I hear Christian preachers threaten the children of God with a curse in order to fill the offering plate I gag.

My thoughts about Malachi 3 and tithing in general are this...

1) I don’t expect any blessing or reward for what I give. I am happy to give because of what Christ already did for me.

2) I give because I believe it is important for our churches to fund outreach and missionary functions.

3) I don't like it if a preacher uses scare tactics to fill an offering plate... But I think it is equally as disgusting to hear a preacher use promises of prosperity and health as a reward for giving.

I've avoided using the examples of Ananias and Sapphira because they did meet an unfortunate end. However, if we do consider them for a moment, I believe that their story is hard to reconcile against a doctrine that claims there to be no New Testament mandate for tithing.

[Semi-Sweet]

You say that those who know the least about God holler the loudest... Perhaps you have proven my point, not yours.

You say, "And to whom would we need to give it since the king of Salem is no longer around?"

Who do you think the KING OF SALEM is?

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 5:6, "As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 6:20, "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:17, "For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:21, "(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)"


Semi... The order of Melchizedec lives for ever through Christ. If Abraham thought it good to tithe to Melchizedec, should it not be good for us to do as Abraham did seeing as how the order of Melchizedec is perpetual and for ever through Christ?


First, I need to make it clear that I don't instruct others how to worship and serve God. Not even my own children. If they have a question, I answer it to the best of my ability. They are free to serve God in their own way, and they do. I can sometimes recognize when scriptures are misapplied, but that don't mean that I know enough to instruct others, because I don't.

Jesus is never identified in our community as a destitute stranger, thirsty, hungry, and shivering from lack of clothes. He is never sick and lonely nor forgotten in the county jail. However countless of his "brethren" are in those circumstances. Jesus identifies with them so that, when we minister to their needs, he counts it as ministering to him. . . .Matthew 25:31-46. In that manner we worship/serve/glorify Him much more obviously than by singing the newest popular praise song in the assembly.

Where is the 10% (tax) tithe mentioned in the New Covenant instructions?

[RayMan]

<snip>

I've avoided using the examples of Ananias and Sapphira because they did meet an unfortunate end. However, if we do consider them for a moment, I believe that their story is hard to reconcile against a doctrine that claims there to be no New Testament mandate for tithing.

Aside from the fact the example of Ananias and Sapphira has absolutely nothing to do with tithing. To save you a trip to the book of Acts I will bring it here. Other folk were selling what they had and bringing the full amount of what they received to the apostle's to spread around to the poor.

Ananias and Sapphira wanted to look cool like the other folk who sold their land but they LIED about how much they gave. They probably gave more than a tithe but they LIED and said they gave the whole thing. Their problem was LYING about what they gave, rather than the problem being how much they gave.


Act 4:34 For neither was there among them any that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 and laid them at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto each, according as any one had need.
Act 4:36 And Joseph, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas (which is, being interpreted, Son of exhortation), a Levite, a man of Cyprus by race,
Act 4:37 having a field, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet.


Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 While it remained, did it not remain thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power?How is it that thou hast conceived this thing in thy heart? thou has not lied unto men, but unto God.

Sounds to me like Peter is saying they didn't have to sell it in the first place and even after selling it the money they gained was theirs. The problem was they lied and said they gave it all.

[bobfisher]

Why, if tithing is not a New Testament doctrine, did Christ praise the widow for tithing her 2 mites? Why didn't He run to her side to set her straight? Why didn't He give her back her 2 mites and tell her to go spend her money at Walmart?

Jesus praised her because she gave from the heart. In the mean time Jesus was also condemning the scribes who devour widows houses. I wonder how the scribes went about devouring widows houses.

[drbob]

First, I need to make it clear that I don't instruct others how to worship and serve God. Not even my own children. If they have a question, I answer it to the best of my ability. They are free to serve God in their own way, and they do. I can sometimes recognize when scriptures are misapplied, but that don't mean that I know enough to instruct others, because I don't.

Jesus is never identified in our community as a destitute stranger, thirsty, hungry, and shivering from lack of clothes. He is never sick and lonely nor forgotten in the county jail. However countless of his "brethren" are in those circumstances. Jesus identifies with them so that, when we minister to their needs, he counts it as ministering to him. . . .Matthew 25:31-46. In that manner we worship/serve/glorify Him much more obviously than by singing the newest popular praise song in the assembly.

Where is the 10% (tax) tithe mentioned in the New Covenant instructions?


Shouldn't we tithe the first fruits of our time, our energy, our affection, and our finances? I do not consider tithing to be a tax at all. Honestly, it is privilege. I trust my local church to do much better things with my money more than I trust the government. I trust my church to do more to feed the hungry, to shelter those whose homes have burned, to clothe those without clothes, etc. I've seen how well the government has handled those tasks. I presume you pay more than 10% to the government.

Listen, 10% is the only number I have ever seen God associate with tithing. I don't think we should hold back from God. There is an example in the book of Acts wherein a couple did hold back from God. You can read it in Acts 5:1-11 if you wish.

[RayMan]

<snip>

Listen, 10% is the only number I have ever seen God associate with tithing. I don't think we should hold back from God. There is an example in the book of Acts wherein a couple did hold back from God. You can read it in Acts 5:1-11 if you wish.

I just covered that two or three posts ago. They got in trouble for lying about giving the full price they got for the land not because of the amount they actually did give. Got the Scripture right there handy to read. And they probably gave more than a tithe!

[Snow]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

1. Thanks for the lecture.

2. You are setting up a false dilemna. People who believe in God trust God with their money - it's the people on earth running churches they may not trust.

Moreover, it's the preachers sporting $1200 suits and making big time salaries I don't trust with "God's money - or those through whose actions huge dollar lawsuits against the church for abuse are bankrupting the church I don't trust with God's money.

[drbob]

Aside from the fact the example of Ananias and Sapphira has absolutely nothing to do with tithing. To save you a trip to the book of Acts I will bring it here. Other folk were selling what they had and bringing the full amount of what they received to the apostle's to spread around to the poor.

Ananias and Sapphira wanted to look cool like the other folk who sold their land but they LIED about how much they gave. They probably gave more than a tithe but they LIED and said they gave the whole thing. Their problem was LYING about what they gave, rather than the problem being how much they gave.


Act 4:34 For neither was there among them any that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 and laid them at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto each, according as any one had need.
Act 4:36 And Joseph, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas (which is, being interpreted, Son of exhortation), a Levite, a man of Cyprus by race,
Act 4:37 having a field, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet.


Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 While it remained, did it not remain thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power?How is it that thou hast conceived this thing in thy heart? thou has not lied unto men, but unto God.

Sounds to me like Peter is saying they didn't have to sell it in the first place and even after selling it the money they gained was theirs. The problem was they lied and said they gave it all.


I don't agree with this interpretation. I believe that they held back a portion and lied about how much they received for the land, not how much they gave for distribution.

Listen, all of you guys are more than welcome to continue to give what you give. It is between you and God. My personal conviction is my personal conviction. Your conviction is your conviction. I am not going to change my mind. You are not going to change my mind. I am not going to change your mind. When I get to heaven, if Paul sits me down and says, "Dude, you didn't have to give 10%," I won't regret anything.

[Semi-Sweet]

You say that those who know the least about God holler the loudest... Perhaps you have proven my point, not yours.

You say, "And to whom would we need to give it since the king of Salem is no longer around?"

Who do you think the KING OF SALEM is?

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 5:6, "As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 6:20, "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:17, "For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:21, "(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)"


Semi... The order of Melchizedec lives for ever through Christ. If Abraham thought it good to tithe to Melchizedec, should it not be good for us to do as Abraham did seeing as how the order of Melchizedec is perpetual and for ever through Christ?


Who are we to say what is good and bind THAT on others?

The priests of the Mosaic dispensation were not inducted into their high office as a result of a proven character or guileless conduct. They were born into a certain family, and by virtue of lesiglation regarding that fleshly descent they became priests. The priesthood of Christ is more spiritual in nature, and is enduring and perpetual, being in that respect far superior to the Levitical priesthood.

Hebrews 7:22. . ."accordingly Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant. "

[drbob]

Who are we to say what is good and bind THAT on others?

The priests of the Mosaic dispensation were not inducted into their high office as a result of a proven character or guileless conduct. They were born into a certain family, and by virtue of lesiglation regarding that fleshly descent they became priests. The priesthood of Christ is more spiritual in nature, and is enduring and perpetual, being in that respect far superior to the Levitical priesthood.

Hebrews 7:22. . ."accordingly Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant. "

The priesthood of Christ and the priesthood of Melchizedec are the same priesthood. Christ is of the order of Melchizedec.

[RayMan]

I don't agree with this interpretation. I believe that they held back a portion and lied about how much they received for the land, not how much they gave for distribution.
<snip>.

Hey bob,
I don't see how your interpretation is different from mine. Of course they lied about how much they received, Peter knew how much they gave. I will have to look at my earlier post and see if I used poor wording - always a possibility.

Please don't think I have any problem with anybody giving any amount they willingly desire to give to the work of the gospel. It is my understanding that since he has become wealthy off his book sales Rick Warren gives 90% of his income to the gospel. I have heard of other people who do this and I think it is great.

The title of this thread is "Did you rob God last payday?" That and the accompanying curse that runs hand in hand with it when preached from many pulpits.

Just went back and looked at my post which you quoted. I don't see where you think I said they lied about what they gave unless you are referencing where I said they lied about giving the whole thing. Which is what they did. Lie about, that is.

[Semi-Sweet]

Shouldn't we tithe the first fruits of our time, our energy, our affection, and our finances? I do not consider tithing to be a tax at all. Honestly, it is privilege. I trust my local church to do much better things with my money more than I trust the government. I trust my church to do more to feed the hungry, to shelter those whose homes have burned, to clothe those without clothes, etc. I've seen how well the government has handled those tasks. I presume you pay more than 10% to the government.

Listen, 10% is the only number I have ever seen God associate with tithing. I don't think we should hold back from God. There is an example in the book of Acts wherein a couple did hold back from God. You can read it in Acts 5:1-11 if you wish.

I believe our sacrifice is the offering of the whole self - the body and all that relates to it. It is set apart, committed, dedicated, made holy, sanctified in daily life rather than in a single dying act. This continuous offering is not taken to a priest or place at a certain time to fulfill ritualistic details. The sanctified one does not go to a priest, for he is a priest himself, offering himself through his High Priest. Worship and service does not take him to a temple, for he is a temple of the Presence of the Spirit. His service is not at set times with detailed rituals, for all of his life is an offering to God. Totally sanctified.

[drbob]

Hey bob,
I don't see how your interpretation is different from mine. Of course they lied about how much they received, Peter knew how much they gave. I will have to look at my earlier post and see if I used poor wording - always a possibility.

Please don't think I have any problem with anybody giving any amount they willingly desire to give to the work of the gospel. It is my understanding that since he has become wealthy off his book sales Rick Warren gives 90% of his income to the gospel. I have heard of other people who do this and I think it is great.

The title of this thread is "Did you rob God last payday?" That and the accompanying curse that runs hand in hand with it when preached from many pulpits.

Just went back and looked at my post which you quoted. I don't see where you think I said they lied about what they gave unless you are referencing where I said they lied about giving the whole thing. Which is what they did. Lie about, that is.


Yea, might have got a bit confused when I read your first post...

I am multitasking. Trying to catch up some documentation for the office and chat at the same time.

[RayMan]

Yea, might have got a bit confused when I read your first post...

I am multitasking. Trying to catch up some documentation for the office and chat at the same time.

In any case, I believe that this can be interpreted as a NT mandate for tithing and an example that we are not to hold back from God. The Holy Spirit knew how much they got for the property. He knows how much I got on my last paycheck. I can't lie to the Holy Spirit and tell Him that I made less than I made anymore than they could.

Multitasking myself tonight. That is why I went back to see if I had misspoke in my writing (Hope none of our teachers here in RF see that sentence.).

Got to get a paper posted online for a World Religions course in less than an hour, but this thread was so interesting I had to keep posting. Gotta work on my self control. Once again, I have absolutely no problem with tithing, just with people who teach it in such a way as to produce, fear, shame or greed. None of those agree with the Bible.

Cheerful, sacrificial giving as one purposes in one's own heart on the other hand, fits right in with 2 Cor 8 and 9 and Paul's extended teaching on giving in Phillipians.

[Semi-Sweet]

The priesthood of Christ and the priesthood of Melchizedec are the same priesthood. Christ is of the order of Melchizedec.

First, if you think 10% is good for you go for it. Instruction for giving that amount cannot be found under the New Covenant. I believe it becomes a problem as in. . .90% belongs to me and 10% belongs to God.

Melchizedek means "king of righteousness." He was also king of Salem (Jerusalem) which word means "peace." He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, as also recorded in Genesis 14:14-20.

Abraham apportioned to Melchizedek a tenth part of everything. This was done out of respect for the superior office of this man. Abraham recognized Melchizedek as a priest of God Most High.

Melchizedek is said to be "without father or mother or genealogy," This does not mean that he literally had no parents. No one was allowed to serve in the Jewish priesthood unless he could "trace his title clear" in the carefully guarded genealogical records. No one knows the name of the father, or mother, of Melchizedek, because the record is silent.

That he "has neither beginning of days nor end of life" means that we have no historical record of his birth or death, or of the beginning or conclusion of his priestly office.

"Resembling the Son of God he continues a priest for ever." This does not mean we cannot trace the genealogy of Jesus, because we have two accounts given of it in Matthew and Luke, but he had no genealogical record as a priest such as the Jews required, and indeed his literal genealogical record showing he came from Judah would have made it impossible for him to be a priest on earth. . .Hebrews 8:4.

Melchizedek and Jesus resembled in the fact that each was a king as well as a priest; each was a king of righteousness and a prince of peace; neither had direct ancestors or successors in the priestly office, and so far as the record shows both continued in office: Melchizedek because the record gives no account of his death; Jesus because the record attests that "he always lives."

This passage in Ephesians should settle the question concerning Melchizedek and Christ.

Ephesians 2:20-23. . . . ."God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. And he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all."

[RayMan]

Why, if tithing is not a New Testament doctrine, did Christ praise the widow for tithing her 2 mites? Why didn't He run to her side to set her straight? Why didn't He give her back her 2 mites and tell her to go spend her money at Walmart?

Didn't see this post earlier. Once again we have a passage which is not a reference to tithing. The widow gave ALL that she had. Not a tithe of what she had.

Luk 21:2 And he saw a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luk 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than they all:
Luk 21:4 for all these did of their superfluity cast in unto the gifts; but she of her want did cast in all the living that she had.

[Wookinstien]

Somehow this post reminds me of Luke 18:9-14. . . . "Jesus told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and regarded others with contempt: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income. But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even look up to heaven, but was beating his breast and saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner! I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other; for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted."

Matthew 6:1. . ."Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret: and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

Those who give from the heart and do the most, don't want it to be known. And these are the ones who would never advise another as to how much they should give. The New Covenant of Grace is not ruled by percentages, it is ruled by love.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj241/Wookinstien/BRAVO.jpg

[Koushi Shinigami]

Why, if tithing is not a New Testament doctrine, did Christ praise the widow for tithing her 2 mites? Why didn't He run to her side to set her straight? Why didn't He give her back her 2 mites and tell her to go spend her money at Walmart?

She wasn't tithing. Tithing is giving an amount = 10%. She was giving all she had. She gave 100%.

[lucky]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

No, but the government, a corporation, lobbyist, some TV evangelist, where all responsible for robbing others and 3 out of 4 me.

[MobyMule]

Tithing is between the indivdual and the Lord. Each person should pray about what they should give. Each individuals circumstance is different. While my Church teaches 10% that amount is left up to the individual and their judgement.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Tithing is between the indivdual and the Lord. Each person should pray about what they should give. Each individuals circumstance is different. While my Church teaches 10% that amount is left up to the individual and their judgement


Every man is given the power of choice. We can choose to obey God or we can choose to do our own thing. All of us should be giving ten percent of our income back to God. Whether you make $50 a day or $1000 a day you should shoot for ten percent. In meeting our needs God is not bound by logic. When we are faithful to him he will respond. Faith defies reason and the wisdom of the world.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Meh.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Those who give from the heart and do the most, don't want it to be known. And these are the ones who would never advise another as to how much they should give. The New Covenant of Grace is not ruled by percentages, it is ruled by love.


Yes we should give quietly to others and our local church and not look for the praise of men. The bible sets the standard we are to use. If one desires to give more than ten percent thats even better. Gods word is the final authority on how we are to live and conduct ourselves. Yes we are saved by grace but that does not mean we can thumb our nose at the word of God.

IF WE DON'T TITHE TO THE LORD WE ARE ROBBING GOD. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW MUCH YOU MAKE OR HOW BIG YOUR FAMILY IS OR WHAT YOUR NEEDS ARE. HE IS A BIG GOD AND HE KNOWS YOUR EVERY NEED AND THE NEEDS OF YOUR FAMILY.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

First, if you think 10% is good for you go for it. Instruction for giving that amount cannot be found under the New Covenant. I believe it becomes a problem as in. . .90% belongs to me and 10% belongs to God.



Actually everything we receive comes from God. We are just stewards of his wealth. It is sad that so many churches are not teaching the whole word of God. It is even sadder that Christians are deceiving themselves that they do not have attend church nor do they have to submit to authority or tithe ect. All are important.

[Koushi Shinigami]

:eh:

Are you a preacher?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

I believe our sacrifice is the offering of the whole self - the body and all that relates to it. It is set apart, committed, dedicated, made holy, sanctified in daily life rather than in a single dying act. This continuous offering is not taken to a priest or place at a certain time to fulfill ritualistic details. The sanctified one does not go to a priest, for he is a priest himself, offering himself through his High Priest. Worship and service does not take him to a temple, for he is a temple of the Presence of the Spirit. His service is not at set times with detailed rituals, for all of his life is an offering to God. Totally sanctified.

The bible says every man seems right in his own eyes. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. All Christians should be attending and supporting their local church. We need to encourage the church and the church encourages us. None of us is perfect and we all need correction from time to time. Jesus who was perfect humbled himself and attended the local synagogue plus he waited his turn to speak. (Why should he have to wait since he is God?) He did this to leave us an example. Yes we can and should approach God directly and keep our body pure as a temple of God. But we also have to obey God and gather ourselves together with the body. If you refuse to attend church and support your local church you are in rebellion to the Lord Jesus Christ.

[RayMan]

<snip>

IF WE DON'T TITHE TO THE LORD WE ARE ROBBING GOD. <snip>


Wrong.

[drbob]

She wasn't tithing. Tithing is giving an amount = 10%. She was giving all she had. She gave 100%.


Makes 10% seem like a small and insignificant thing doesn't it?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

First, I need to make it clear that I don't instruct others how to worship and serve God. Not even my own children. If they have a question, I answer it to the best of my ability. They are free to serve God in their own way, and they do. I can sometimes recognize when scriptures are misapplied, but that don't mean that I know enough to instruct others, because I don't


The bible commands us to bring up our children in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it.

Every Christian should read the word of God and study it. Every Sunday the church teaches from the word of God and instructs its members what different passages and stories mean and how they apply to our lifes. If we refuse to study Gods word and attend church we will be without excuse at the judgement.

Pride is behind every sin. So many Christians now have a spirit of rebellion. No pastor or church is going to tell them what they are going to do or how they are going to live. That spirit that was present in the garden of eden encouraging Eve to eat of the tree is present in the heart of many. Burger Kings motto has taken root in the hearts of men. We are going to have it our way. If we want to serve Christ we have to do it Gods way. We need to do what he wants, when he wants us to do it, and how he wants us to do it. Anything less is rebellion.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

I am all for cheerful and even sacrificial giving to the work of the gospel. When I hear Christian preachers threaten the children of God with a curse in order to fill the offering plate I gag.
__________________

Yes we should give cheerfully to the work of the gospel. Yes we should give faithfully to God. The bible says what we sow we shall reap. If we rob God we curse ourselves. I don't like to hear televangislts and preachers make threats but Gods children need to know. We are all required to give faithfully. If we don't we are robbing God. (No I am not a preacher or televangelist.)

[RayMan]

__________________

<snip> I don't like to hear televangislts and preachers make threats but Gods children need to know. We are all required to give faithfully. If we don't we are robbing God. (No I am not a preacher or televangelist.)

Wrong again. How many other Old Testament commands do you keep so as not to be cursed. Can't just pick and choose buffet style you know. If you are going back under the law you have to keep the whole thing. Good luck with that.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

[Semi-Sweet]

Yes we should give quietly to others and our local church and not look for the praise of men. The bible sets the standard we are to use. If one desires to give more than ten percent thats even better. Gods word is the final authority on how we are to live and conduct ourselves. Yes we are saved by grace but that does not mean we can thumb our nose at the word of God.

IF WE DON'T TITHE TO THE LORD WE ARE ROBBING GOD. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW MUCH YOU MAKE OR HOW BIG YOUR FAMILY IS OR WHAT YOUR NEEDS ARE. HE IS A BIG GOD AND HE KNOWS YOUR EVERY NEED AND THE NEEDS OF YOUR FAMILY.

Where is this standard that you say is in the NT?

I don't believe you are serious. If you truly believe what you are saying, show us where you are getting the authority from?

[gpd®]

Wrong again. How many other Old Testament commands do you keep so as not to be cursed. Can't just pick and choose buffet style you know. If you are going back under the law you have to keep the whole thing. Good luck with that.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


But Rayman, help me out here. We were always taught that tithing preexisted the law so it is not part of the law.

[drbob]

Where is this standard that you say is in the NT?

I don't believe you are serious. If you truly believe what you are saying, show us where you are getting the authority from?



I just took my kids to Subway to pick up a tuna sub... I was sitting at a stoplight when one word came into my mind...... LAODICEA.

As I sat there, I thought about the letters to the seven churches. I thought about the commendations and condemnations given to each by the Lord. I thought about the letters to the church at Smyrna and the church at Laodicea.

Smyrna was a church that had little but gave a lot. Though impoverished, they were spiritually prosperous.

(Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.)

Laodicea was a church that had a lot but gave little. Though prosperous, they were spiritually impoverished.

(Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked)

WHAT WAS CHRIST'S INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE LAODICEANS TO CORRECT THEIR ERRANT WAYS???

(Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.)


Christ's instruction was for them to part with the riches in which they put their trust, their hope, and their affections. For that, He would give them something with spiritual value, something virtuous, and vision.

Read the letters to Smyrna and Laodicea... Which of the two churches would you want to be associated with?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Wrong again. How many other Old Testament commands do you keep so as not to be cursed. Can't just pick and choose buffet style you know. If you are going back under the law you have to keep the whole thing. Good luck with that.



We do not have to offer up sacrifices for the remission of sins like the jews did. When Christ came he fulfilled the law. We are now saved by faith-not by the works of the law. However the moral law of God still applys to us. Remember the early church? Many members sold all that they had and gave it to the apostles. Now God is not asking us to give all that we have to him. Yet many of you are fiercing opposing giving God back ten percent. Tithing will not save anyone. We should be tithing to show God we trust him to meet our need as well as our desire for obedience to his word. Jesus said give to Caesar that which is Caesar's and give to God that which is Gods. Read Malachi for further references to tithing.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Read the letters to Smyrna and Laodicea... Which of the two churches would you want to be associated with?

I fear that numerous Christians are not associated with any church. We are too big for our britches now. Life has been too easy because we were so blessed. God is going to allow persecution to weed out the "summer soldiers". We need to be humbled to bring us back into Gods will.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Makes 10% seem like a small and insignificant thing doesn't it?

"You still need to do one thing. Sell everything you have and give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me."


Hadley, seems to me you're 90% short of what Jesus specified in the new testament.

[bobfisher]

But Rayman, help me out here. We were always taught that tithing preexisted the law so it is not part of the law.

If tithing predated the law then why does Paul refer to scriptures in the book of Genesis as "the law".

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

[bobfisher]

hadley, seems to me you're 90% short of what jesus specified in the new testament.

+10 + 90

[texan_rep]

Yes, I would seriously question the salvation and commitment of a person who willfully robbed God.

I pay my 10% off my gross. In my heart and mind, 10% of my gross is a small price to pay-- considering the price that Christ paid for me!!!

Know what I mean????

I wonder how God feels about your presuming to take His task upon yourself. :think:

Judgement is God's alone. Worry instead about the plank in your own eye.

[texan_rep]

Giving to God, expecting something in return, is a very, very poor reason to give to God.

:clap::clap:

[RayMan]

<snip> Read Malachi for further references to tithing.

If you want to go back under the law read and obey Malachi 3. Read 2 Cor 8&9 and Phillipians 4 to understand New Covenant giving.

[DarthBush]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.


Christians are not bound to the Old testament principle of tithing. Read Acts....

Tithing was used to fund the temple worship and levitical priesthood.

With that said, we are ask to give to charity and your church. The amount is between you and God.

All God requires is that you give all you can with all your heart..

[Meriweather]

Christians are not bound to the Old testament principle of tithing. Read Acts....

Tithing was used to fund the temple worship and levitical priesthood.

With that said, we are ask to give to charity and your church. The amount is between you and God.

All God requires is that you give all you can with all your heart..

DarthBush as I live and breathe! I knew you would return so you could discuss hobbits with me (but over in Our Gathering Place).

[DarthBush]

I've come to shed light to those in darkness

[Meriweather]

I've come to shed light to those in darkness

A bright person such as yourself is always welcome here.

[Semi-Sweet]

I've come to shed light to those in darkness

Good to see you!

http://bestsmileys.com/lights/6.gif

[DarthBush]

;)

[DarthBush]

A bright person such as yourself is always welcome here.

From your mouth to God's ears...

;)

[RayMan]

But Rayman, help me out here. We were always taught that tithing preexisted the law so it is not part of the law.

We know that Abraham tithed once under very special circumstances. The type of tithing a couple of people in here are insisting is required in order to not be robbing God and be living under a curse comes from a twisting of the tithing God required of the Jews.

I have no problem with anyone tithing, just with someone telling everyone who names the name of Christ that they are in rebellion and quite possibly not saved if they don't tithe.

[DarthBush]

We know that Abraham tithed once under very special circumstances. The type of tithing a couple of people in here are insisting is required in order to not be robbing God and be living under a curse comes from a twisting of the tithing God required of the Jews.

I have no problem with anyone tithing, just with someone telling everyone who names the name of Christ that they are in rebellion and quite possibly not saved if they don't tithe.



a simple review of the OT and NT clearly show Tithing was a requirement imposed on the Israelities to fund Temple worship and sustain the levitical priesthood.

The apostle when they gathered in Jerusalem to talk about salavation for the Gentiles spoke and prayed about the issues of circumision, the Law, Etc

Acts 15:19-22 "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren."

[RayMan]

a simple review of the OT and NT clearly show Tithing was a requirement imposed on the Israelities to fund Temple worship and sustain the levitical priesthood.

The apostle when they gathered in Jerusalem to talk about salavation for the Gentiles spoke and prayed about the issues of circumision, the Law, Etc

Acts 15:19-22 "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren."

Hi DB,
Well put.

[Semi-Sweet]

The bible commands us to bring up our children in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it.

That is from Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it."

Spoken by Solomon. Since he had 700 wives and 300 concubines, I wonder if he personally trained up all of his children and grandchildren. I wonder also what his success rate in training them was?

It is good advice. Training can be done by being a good example.

Every Christian should read the word of God and study it. Every Sunday the church teaches from the word of God and instructs its members what different passages and stories mean and how they apply to our lifes. If we refuse to study Gods word and attend church we will be without excuse at the judgement. Pride is behind every sin. So many Christians now have a spirit of rebellion. No pastor or church is going to tell them what they are going to do or how they are going to live. That spirit that was present in the garden of eden encouraging Eve to eat of the tree is present in the heart of many. Burger Kings motto has taken root in the hearts of men. We are going to have it our way. If we want to serve Christ we have to do it Gods way. We need to do what he wants, when he wants us to do it, and how he wants us to do it. Anything less is rebellion.

Hbr 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need [someone] to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Hbr 5:13 For everyone who partakes [only] of milk [is] unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

Hbr 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, [that is], those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Isn't there a command to "forsake not"? No, it is an exhortation stated negatively directed to certain people at a certain time. If it were a command of law, many questions would have to be answered with definition. Would it include you and me? Would "not forsaking" mean "never missing."? Or, how many times of missing would amount to forsaking?

Would those unable to assemble due to health, occupation (like a sailor), or remote location be in violation? Would it demand meetings annually (like the Passover), monthly, weekly, twice weekly, or daily? Would ten-minute meetings suffice, or must they be 1, 2, 3 or 5 hours, or all day long? Law must be defined in order to be kept and enforced. This exhortation leaves all details to the judgment of the disciples as to what will fulfill the purpose of their meetings.

Then, we must ask what is the purpose to be fulfilled? A roll check? To measure our righteousness? To prove our faith? To demonstrate to the world that we sacrifice our time in serving the Lord? To keep a commandment? None of the above.

This text in Hebrews was addressed to Hebrew disciples in the first century, not to you and me. Do we need one another as they did. Yes! Then that answers the question.. . . ."Why assemble?" We assemble to help and to be helped. We participate for mutual edification rather than for presenting a concert to God. Yes, we may and should worship in gatherings but there is no instruction emphasizing these gatherings as "worship services." Those meetings may involve all the disciples in an area, or lesser numbers in homes or wherever.

[chelton25]

Its amazing how man rationalizes away Gods commands. God commanded us to give ten percent to him. Obeying God involves trusting him to meet our needs. He is a big God. He created both the heavens and the earth. Every hair of our head is numbered. He knows your needs and your familys needs. Put him first in your life and he will meet your needs. Tithing to God should be an ongoing. There are many who have alot less than us who are much more faithful with the little they have. If you can't trust God with your money how can you say you trust him with your life? God can work miracles and create wealth out of nothing to meet our needs.

God commands us to give faithfully. Your local bible believing church is accountable to God. Don't try to micromanage what the church does with its funds. Unless you see something completely off the wall such as church funds being used for gambling or booze let the church do its job.

scripture please.

[Koushi Shinigami]

scripture please.

Luke 18:22

[vegasboltfan]

a simple review of the OT and NT clearly show Tithing was a requirement imposed on the Israelities to fund Temple worship and sustain the levitical priesthood.

The apostle when they gathered in Jerusalem to talk about salavation for the Gentiles spoke and prayed about the issues of circumision, the Law, Etc

Acts 15:19-22 "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren."

First Shalom Ya'll I just found this place. Tithing was for the Levites yes, but also for celebrating a blessing you may have recieved. Such as when Avraham gave his tithe to Melchesedic who was not of the levitical priesthood. It shows us that these teachings preceded the Laws being written down for Moshe to give to all the Israelites. By the way who were the Israelites? The mixed multitude who left egypt. If you follow the teachings of the Mesiah and accept HIM and proclaim HIM to the world you are an Israelite.

The key part of the above passage Acts 15:19-22 is that Moshe (Moses) is taught in the synagogues every Shabbat. What does that mean? Ya'akov (James) the brother of Our Messiah YAHSHUA, Jesus if you prefer, is telling the hardliners to back off the newbies because "Moses" A.K.A The TORAH, the Instruction Manuel for life, is being taught in the synagogue every week and the newbies can go there and learn how to lead one's life. That's why everyone was in agreement with that teaching. As we all should be. It's not just for the Jews. It's for everyone! It's what YAHSHUA and every apostle was teaching everyone else from. There was no New Testament until they wrote it down.

[captusa]

I've come to shed light to those in darkness

And I'm here to turn the lights off for those that may want to go to sleep.
We all have our jobs to do.

[captusa]

Did you rob God last payday?

I don't even know when HE gets paid.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

I don't even know when HE gets paid.

God owns everything. We are just stewards of Gods blessing. He does not need our money. He wants us to be faithful to him on a continuous basis. Tithing separates the followers from the flakes. Flakes say they believe in God and can often quote scripure but balk at obeying his commands. Followers of Jesus Christ trust God with their lifes and their money. Their faith is alive and in practice.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

And I'm here to turn the lights off for those that may want to go to sleep.
We all have our jobs to do.

For some readers it won't be necessary to shut down the lights. Yes their lights are on but nobodys home!

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Would those unable to assemble due to health, occupation (like a sailor), or remote location be in violation?

If you can't get out of bed it is understandable that you will not be making the service. If you work at a nursing home or hospital and are scheduled for Sunday morning that too is just cause. If you stranded on Gilligans Island or out at sea God knows why you won't be in church. But for the other 99 percent of men who can but refuse to attend church you are without excuse.

[dittoheadAZ]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

Give to God that which belongs to God, and give to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar.

Unfortunately, when Caesar steals that which belongs to God, there is a real problem. Especially when Caesar then uses some of that money to undermine God.

[RayMan]

God owns everything. We are just stewards of Gods blessing. He does not need our money. He wants us to be faithful to him on a continuous basis. Tithing separates the followers from the flakes. Flakes say they believe in God and can often quote scripure but balk at obeying his commands. Followers of Jesus Christ trust God with their lifes and their money. Their faith is alive and in practice.


Judge much? :))

[dittoheadAZ]

And I'm here to turn the lights off for those that may want to go to sleep.
We all have our jobs to do.

Well, those who wish eternal separation from God cannot complain when they get their wish. God doesn't "send" anyone to Hell - they choose to go of their own volition.

[captusa]

.... Followers of Jesus Christ trust God with their lifes and their money. Their faith is alive and in practice.

If it was possible to tithe directly to God then they might have reason to trust God with their money but.....

[captusa]

Well, those who wish eternal separation from God cannot complain when they get their wish. God doesn't "send" anyone to Hell - they choose to go of their own volition.

Some Christians (certainly not all) can't engage in a discussion without the implied threat of their benevolent Deity is going to punish all that do not agree with them.
After a while it might cease to be amusing.

[gpd®]

If tithing predated the law then why does Paul refer to scriptures in the book of Genesis as "the law".

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

So the law didn't start with Moses? Is the Greek identical to the Hebrew when referring to both references to the "law?"

[bobfisher]

So the law didn't start with Moses?

Apparently not. I'm sure there are verses where "law" refers more specifically to the law of Moses, but the verse I quoted lumps Genesis in with the law of Moses.

Is the Greek identical to the Hebrew when referring to both references to the "law?"

I'm not sure what you mean by "identical to the Hebrew" since the verse is all Greek. Both instnaces of "law" in the verse are the same Greek word nomos

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Strong's G3551 - nomos

1) anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever

1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a) by the observance of which is approved of God

2) a precept or injunction

3) the rule of action prescribed by reason
b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bottom line for me is simple -- clean the inside of the cup not the outside.

[RayMan]

Some Christians (certainly not all) can't engage in a discussion without the implied threat of their benevolent Deity is going to punish all that do not agree with them.
After a while it might cease to be amusing.

You're still havin' fun with it though.

[RayMan]

Apparently not. I'm sure there are verses where "law" refers more specifically to the law of Moses, but the verse I quoted lumps Genesis in with the law of Moses.



I'm not sure what you mean by "identical to the Hebrew" since the verse is all Greek. Both instnaces of "law" in the verse are the same Greek word nomos


Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?


Strong's G3551 - nomos

1) anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a) of any law whatsoever

1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a) by the observance of which is approved of God

2) a precept or injunction

3) the rule of action prescribed by reason
b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love
d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

Bottom line for me is simple -- clean the inside of the cup not the outside.


Paul is pretty much talking about the Mosaic law in Galatians. He differentiates between that and Genesis in chapter 3.

Abraham - Genesis.

Gal 3:16 (Now the promises were given to Abraham and to his seed. God did not say "and to seeds," as if speaking of many, but "and to your seed," since He spoke of only one--and this is Christ.)

Mosaic law - 430 years later

Gal 3:17 I mean that the Covenant which God had already formally made is not abrogated by the Law which was given four hundred and thirty years later--so as to annul the promise.

[bobfisher]

Tithing separates the followers from the flakes. Flakes say they believe in God and can often quote scripure but balk at obeying his commands. Followers of Jesus Christ trust God with their lifes and their money. Their faith is alive and in practice. [/COLOR][/FONT]

Don't you know that looking down your snout and calling people "flakes" puts you in danger of gehenna fire?

[RayMan]

Don't you know that looking down your snout and calling people "flakes" puts you in danger of gehenna fire?

There you go wanting to bring the Bible into the discussion. [/sarcasm off]

[Jacob_Rising]

For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.WOW!

Even Christ huh?

Yeshuah followed the Sabbath, Nobody has changed that and it is in fact ,'' unchangable'' meaning ,'' Forever''

Is God a liar?

Some people don't go to church because they can't find a place to agree.

PAYING TITHES.

Tithes are for feeding the poor, does your church do that?

Bethlehem means,'' House of Bread''

Malachi 3: 10 is the only true test I know of that actually proves there is a God beyond a doubt.

Malachi 3:10 '' Bring the WHOLE TITHE INTO THE STOREHOUSE,THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD IN MY HOUSE: TEST ME ON THIS,'' SAYS THE LORD ALLMIGHTY''.

The House of God is a storehouse for food for the people, The laws of God are set up to show kindness and love for thy neighbor. The people of God are renowned for hospitality and feeding the hungry and helping the poor.

Is this what your tithe is going to?

Is this what you are making people feel guilty about, not feeding the poor?

[bobfisher]

Paul is pretty much talking about the Mosaic law in Galatians. He differentiates between that and Genesis in chapter 3.

Abraham - Genesis.

Gal 3:16 (Now the promises were given to Abraham and to his seed. God did not say "and to seeds," as if speaking of many, but "and to your seed," since He spoke of only one--and this is Christ.)

Mosaic law - 430 years later

Gal 3:17 I mean that the Covenant which God had already formally made is not abrogated by the Law which was given four hundred and thirty years later--so as to annul the promise.



Yes, I see that. But in Gal 4:21 Paul does lump Genesis in with the law of Moses that the Galations were placing themselves under. I think that diminishes the argument that followers of Christ are under tithing but not under the law of Moses. Paul says "tell me you who desire to be under X do you not hear X?" and then quotes X (Genesis) to prove they are not under X. So how can we be under tithing which is also found in X?

Anyway... it's simpler than that. We fulfill the law by love, by cleaning the inside of the cup... not the outside.

[RayMan]

<snip>
For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.


Went to the sabbath on Sunday, eh? Wow, that would be a good trick for anyone to pull off. Especially a first century Jew. Sunday has never been, is not now and never will be the Sabbath.

[Jacob_Rising]

Yes, I see that. But in Gal 4:21 Paul does lump Genesis in with the law of Moses that the Galations were placing themselves under. I think that diminishes the argument that followers of Christ are under tithing but not under the law of Moses. Paul says "tell me you who desire to be under X do you not hear X?" and then quotes X (Genesis) to prove they are not under X. So how can we be under tithing which is also found in X?

Anyway... it's simpler than that. We fulfill the law by love, by cleaning the inside of the cup... not the outside. Everyone is under the laws of God, Everyone will answer according to God's commandments and that's a fact, or it's my opinion:confused:

If all the laws come down to 2 single laws of loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as youself, then these laws will define everyone.

Christianity only offers a gentile a covenant, nothing less.

The commandments of God are forever and they are rightous to do and to teach.

The laws of God are to teach people to love thy neighbor.

It all comes down to loving God and loving thy neighbor.

Everyone will still be judged according to this law IMO, and just because 2 saved stand side by side doesn't mean they will have the same inheritance.

Rewards are earned in the New Testament.

You turn and Earn, The law shows you what sin is so that you don't do it.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Went to the sabbath on Sunday, eh? Wow, that would be a good trick for anyone to pull off. Especially a first century Jew. Sunday has never been, is not now and never will be the Sabbath.

:)) don't let the facts get in the way. :))

[Constantine the Great]

Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order.

Yeah, except Sunday didn't become our holy day until AFTER Christ was crucified.

[TaylorW65]

Some Christians (certainly not all) can't engage in a discussion without the implied threat of their benevolent Deity is going to punish all that do not agree with them.
After a while it might cease to be amusing.
That is one of the main reasons why I stopped going to these so called 'Bible believing churches." So many people there arguing about what the Bible teaches and what to believe. I experienced so much infighting, pride and ego and not much love. And when a religious person is threatened the not so subtle hint that you will go to hell for not agreeing with them is sure to follow.

Maybe my problem was that I expected Christians to be different from other people and more loving.

But nothing is more dangerous than to run into another fallible human being who believes they know God's truth.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Bottom line for me is simple -- clean the inside of the cup not the outside.


Yes God is more concerned with our insides rather than our outsides. We do not tithe to impress man or the church. (Nor should we be doing anything to be praised by man rather than God.) We should be tithing out of obedience to God and his word.

[TaylorW65]

Yes God is more concerned with our insides rather than our outsides. We do not tithe to impress man or the church. (Nor should we be doing anything to be praised by man rather than God.) We should be tithing out of obedience to God and his word.

But if we tithe out of fear instead of love how do you think God feels about that?

[Jacob_Rising]

Yes God is more concerned with our insides rather than our outsides. We do not tithe to impress man or the church. (Nor should we be doing anything to be praised by man rather than God.) We should be tithing out of obedience to God and his word.I didn't read this thread.

Would you tell me what your tithes are paying for?

Do you know where your tithes are going?

Are you a good steward?

Is your money helping people?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

That is one of the main reasons why I stopped going to these so called 'Bible believing churches." So many people there arguing about what the Bible teaches and what to believe. I experienced so much infighting, pride and ego and not much love. And when a religious person is threatened the not so subtle hint that you will go to hell for not agreeing with them is sure to follow.

Maybe my problem was that I expected Christians to be different from other people and more loving.

But nothing is more dangerous than to run into another fallible human being who believes they know God's truth.

Reluctantly I have to admit there is some truth to what you are saying. Yes there are Christians who love to fight. If everyone is getting along they will stir up trouble and infighting to play one person against another. This goes on in the world and sometimes it creeps into the church. None of us are perfect and the enemy Satan sometimes uses other "Christians" to fan the flames of discontent. I agree that Christians should be different. Most but not all of true Christians strive daily to pattern their life after Christ.

There are many bible believing churches that have wonderful loving pastors and members. Sometimes rotten eggs creep in and mix with the flock to poision the house of God. This was a problem in the early church and will be till Christ returns. Even so we all need to attend a local bible believing church and submit ourselves to authority. Let God deal with the troublemakers and the hyprocrites. We need the church and the church needs us. God wants us to grow and to encourage other Christians.

All truth is based on the word of God. Sometimes men misapply the scripures or ignore them alltogether. We all need to be grounded in Gods word so we can understand his perfect will. When we are grounded we will not be swayed by false doctrine. There are alot of "doctrines of demons" floating around now to lead men astray. The bible says "straight is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to salvation. "

[WALKINGHADLEY]

I didn't read this thread.

Would you tell me what your tithes are paying for?

Do you know where your tithes are going?

Are you a good steward?

Is your money helping people?

Yes I know where my tithes are going to (mine is a smalll church) Our tithes barely cover the monthly rent and utilities on the church. We are committed to send the missions an offering monthly to help the poor and reach unsaved men in various countries.

I hope I am a good steward. I do try to give ten percent back to God. That does not make me any better than anyone else. My salvation was paid thru the blood of Christ. We can not buy salvation or favor with God.


It is only in the past few years I have been faithful in giving. At one time I only gave two or three percent of my income back. Since giving faithfully God has blessed me. It is not that I am special or that God owes me anything. Everything I have comes from him. God is faithful when we put our trust in him.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

But if we tithe out of fear instead of love how do you think God feels about that?

We should fear God and reverence him. Hopefully we are obeying him out of Love and not just fear. Perfect love casteth out fear!

[TaylorW65]

.

Reluctantly I have to admit there is some truth to what you are saying. Yes there are Christians who love to fight. If everyone is getting along they will stir up trouble and infighting to play one person against another. This goes on in the world and sometimes it creeps into the church. None of us are perfect and the enemy Satan sometimes uses other "Christians" to fan the flames of discontent. I agree that Christians should be different. Most but not all of true Christians strive daily to pattern their life after Christ.

There are many bible believing churches that have wonderful loving pastors and members. Sometimes rotten eggs creep in and mix with the flock to poision the house of God. This was a problem in the early church and will be till Christ returns. Even so we all need to attend a local bible believing church and submit ourselves to authority. Let God deal with the troublemakers and the hyprocrites. We need the church and the church needs us. God wants us to grow and to encourage other Christians.

All truth is based on the word of God. Sometimes men misapply the scripures or ignore them alltogether. We all need to be grounded in Gods word so we can understand his perfect will. When we are grounded we will not be swayed by false doctrine. There are alot of "doctrines of demons" floating around now to lead men astray. The bible says "straight is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to salvation. "

I agree with much of what you have said. I also have seen that people are at different levels of maturity in their spiritual walk. Some are still children some have grown wise. Hopefully those with more spiritual maturity can reign in those who are less mature.

As to the word of God. I learned from a good Lutheran minister that the word of God isn't just a book, or the Bible, or the pages in a book.

The Bible tells us the word of God is a person and that person became flesh and dwelt among us. He now dwells in the hearts of all of the children who follow him. As Luther said the believer then too is the word of God.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

The Bible tells us the word of God is a person and that person became flesh and dwelt among us. He now dwells in the hearts of all of the children who follow him. As Luther said the believer then too is the word of God.
__________________



I would not paraphrase it that way but sometimes we are the only Jesus that men will ever see in this life. Our life should be a mirror of Christ. Many do not want to hear about Jesus-they want to see him!

[TaylorW65]

I would not paraphrase it that way but sometimes we are the only Jesus that men will ever see in this life. Our life should be a mirror of Christ. Many do not want to hear about Jesus-they want to see him!

Sure, the word of God is alive and to me they are more than just words on a page. I wouldn't limit God to just words printed on paper. I find some people who worship the words printed on paper as being idolatrous. The words on the page are a symbol and point to the divine life which those symbols represent.

I have seen too many people become so hard and rigid with scripture that they lose the spirit which those words speak of.

What the hungering lost people need is the Love of Christ mirrored to them through the eyes and hearts of another living and breathing human being.

[captusa]

You're still havin' fun with it though.
I said,
"After a while it might cease to be amusing."
Desperation is still funny.

[vegasboltfan]

Yeah, except Sunday didn't become our holy day until AFTER Christ was crucified.

With respect to you. Who made your holy day sunday? And why would you choose to have a different Holy day than the one you call Christ?

[TaylorW65]

With respect to you. Who made your holy day sunday? And why would you choose to have a different Holy day than the one you call Christ?

Because Christians began to be a group separate from Judaism (at first Christianity was just a sect within Judaism) but as their separation from Judaism continued they began to emphasize Sunday the day on which Jesus rose from the dead as their special day of worship.

[gpd®]

Bottom line for me is simple -- clean the inside of the cup not the outside.

Well, this person isn't taking any chances. Every last person in my company tithes voluntarily and cheerfully.

We have been extremely prosperous during these so-called "down-times."

We are so busy, we are looking at expanding and buying our own building and hiring more people.

I attribute it to God's many promises of the rewards of giving one's firstfruits."

[gpd®]

With respect to you. Who made your holy day sunday? And why would you choose to have a different Holy day than the one you call Christ?

It is very complicated. Hopefully, you may want to read some background on the entire subject and the history of the the early fathers and their views on Sunday with respect to Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_Christianity

I've read the article and it seems to be very good.

[Navy Nuke]

Uh, what about "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves togther..." per Paul. Although it is not a command.....

You'll have to point out the passage so I can see the context. It is highly recommended that one is in fellowship with other Christians. It will benefit the individual and the church as a whole.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Well, this person isn't taking any chances. Every last person in my company tithes voluntarily and cheerfully.

We have been extremely prosperous during these so-called "down-times."

We are so busy, we are looking at expanding and buying our own building and hiring more people.

I attribute it to God's many promises of the rewards of giving one's firstfruits."

If at least half of the Christians in the United states freely paid their tithes the missions would not be lacking. We would not need a welfare state. When churches help the poor it is so much efficient over having the government do it. We can't outgive God!

[Constantine the Great]

With respect to you. Who made your holy day sunday? And why would you choose to have a different Holy day than the one you call Christ?

Your post makes zero sense. Sunday became the Holy Day by Christians since that was traditionally recognized as the day of Resurrection. And I don't call Christ a Holy Day. Christ is not a day, He is our Savior.

[gpd®]

If at least half of the Christians in the United states freely paid their tithes the missions would not be lacking. We would not need a welfare state. When churches help the poor it is so much efficient over having the government do it. We can't outgive God!

Give someone a fish and they eat for a day, teach them to fish...etc., etc., etc.

Yes the churches and missions are far more versed to teach instead of purely handing out entitlements.

[Jacob_Rising]

We can not buy salvation or favor with God.


1 Peter 4:8 Charity{love} will cover a multitude of sins.

Proverbs10: 12 Hatred stirs up strife but Love covers all sins.

Mathew 6:4 That your charitable deed may be in secret: and your father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Mathew 5:19 '' Whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.''

James 5:20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Not everyone will be the same in the kingdom of heaven and you can definatly do things to bring you more favor with God.

These are only a few scriptures that show this, I've got a hundred more like it.

[gpd®]

Your post makes zero sense. Sunday became the Holy Day by Christians since that was traditionally recognized as the day of Resurrection. And I don't call Christ a Holy Day. Christ is not a day, He is our Savior.

I think he meant Christ observed the Sabbath, what makes us better than Jesus to do something different than Him.

[TaylorW65]

I think he meant Christ observed the Sabbath, what makes us better than Jesus to do something different than Him.

What away to phrase the question. Just because the church developed a different day of worship why conclude we think we're better than Jesus? :rolleyes:

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Peter 4:8 Charity{love} will cover a multitude of sins.

Proverbs10: 12 Hatred stirs up strife but Love covers all sins.

Mathew 6:4 That your charitable deed may be in secret: and your father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Mathew 5:19 '' Whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.''

James 5:20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Not everyone will be the same in the kingdom of heaven and you can definatly do things to bring you more favor with God.

These are only a few scriptures that show this, I've got a hundred more like it.

None of us can purchase salvation or earn our way to heaven. Our sins were paid thru the blood of the lamb. Whenever we give to the poor or support the needy we will receive treasure in heaven. God is thrilled when we turn a sinner from the error of his way. However we must be careful not to imply that we can pay for our sins by serving God.

[RayMan]

I think he meant Christ observed the Sabbath, what makes us better than Jesus to do something different than Him.

Looks to me like you are spot on with the first part but I don't see him saying we think we are better, just that he wonders why we don't worship on the same day Jesus did.

His wording is somewhat labored so it is hard to tell for sure but that is what it looks like to me.

[Koushi Shinigami]

None of us can purchase salvation or earn our way to heaven. Our sins were paid thru the blood of the lamb. Whenever we give to the poor or support the needy we will receive treasure in heaven. God is thrilled when we turn a sinner from the error of his way. However we must be careful not to imply that we can pay for our sins by serving God.

What will we do with this 'heavenly treasure" ?

[Lie Sniper]

What will we do with this 'heavenly treasure" ?

Spend it in Sin City, maybe?:dance:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Spend it in Sin City, maybe?:dance:

:))


Snappy comeback. +10 points for style. :clap:

[WALKINGHADLEY]

What will we do with this 'heavenly treasure" ?


The bible says eye has not seen nor has the ear heard what God has prepared for those who love him!

[Ron Jon]

The bible says eye has not seen nor has the ear heard what God has prepared for those who love him!So no streets of gold or pearly gates?

[hben]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.

Ten percent was under the "Old Covenant", but we are under the "New Covenant", and the example is to give to God what is God's whatever that may be. For the widow, it was all she had. I truly believe giving God ONLY ten percent is being stingy when we have a blessed year as many Christians do in this free nation. But that may change after we see the fullfillment of "hope" and "change" in America. The "Age of Obama" is upon us. Or should I say the "Beginning of Sorrows" is upon us with the promise that it will only get worse.

[captusa]

If at least half of the Christians in the United states freely paid their tithes the missions would not be lacking. We would not need a welfare state. When churches help the poor it is so much efficient over having the government do it. We can't out give God!

I depends on which church.
I am an Atheist and give generously to the Salvation Army because I am aware of their work.
(And I am unaware of vast holdings of luxury estates as offices and homes for their executives that I know other "charitable" organizations maintain.)
AND if we can't out give God why try with a measly tithe?

[WALKINGHADLEY]

I depends on which church.
I am an Atheist and give generously to the Salvation Army because I am aware of their work.
(And I am unaware of vast holdings of luxury estates as offices and homes for their executives that I know other "charitable" organizations maintain.)
AND if we can't out give God why try with a measly tithe?


My point was most God fearing churches spend and handle their money very well and do not waste money on luxurys and estates. Some of the televangelists live bloated lives with viewers money and only give back part for helping the poor. For every church that is corrupt like that there is a few bible believing churches that are frugal and good stewards of Gods blessings. I think the Salvation Army does wonderful work at near zero overhead costs. We should tithe because God wants us to and it builds up our trust in God and his provision for our lives. Not tithing is a form of stealing. Everything you receive is due to the mercy of God-it is not that you and I deserve the blessings we receive. Where you treasure is their will you heart be!

[terri910]

What are the odds two people would post the exact same words, using the same style and color font?

:mrgreen:

[WALKINGHADLEY]

So no streets of gold or pearly gates?


Yes there is streets of Gold and Pearly gates as well!

[captusa]

What are the odds two people would post the exact same words, using the same style and color font?

:mrgreen:

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

[WALKINGHADLEY]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.


Let us flatter Christ and pattern our life after his!

[psyko kat]

Last week when you were paid you may have paid your rent (or mortgage), filled up the car, bought some grocerys ect. Maybe you went out over the weekend with the friends or bought the latest CDs. A trip to Blockbuster for some flixs to unwind and help enjoy the weekend. Maybe even purchased a gift or flowers for your sweetheart.

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

God does not need our money. However to test our faith he commanded his people to give back ten percent to him. If we can't trust him with our money how can we trust him with our life? If you want God to meet your needs put him first in your life. Give him his due even if it looks like you are stretched thin. Robbing God will bring you to poverty.


For those are too proud or lazy to attend church I say who are you fooling? Don't say you believe in God but disobey him by refusing to attend church. God wants to be worshiped both in your heart and in a public. He wants you to encourgage the church and the church encourages you. Even Christ went to the sabbath on Sunday and submitted to Godly order. Pride is behind every sin. Repent today and join the believers in public worship and praise! If you want to spend eternity with Christ a few hours a week is a small thing to ask.


the government robs me every week, what I have left is just enuff for me.

[smyrna]

the government robs me every week, what I have left is just enuff for me.

What you say is logical...what I'm saying is not. Give the Lord his 10% of your after tax income and you will be blessed for it...if you do it out of love(not of money).

[captusa]

Let us flatter Christ and pattern our life after his!
I do not care to be crucified and what would happen if everyone patterned their lives after HIS?
What would happen if everyone left his or her trade (like being a carpenter for instance) and went though the country (s) preaching ?
I do not think Jesus could be described as a capitalist.

[Koushi Shinigami]

I do not care to be crucified and what would happen if everyone patterned their lives after HIS?
What would happen if everyone left his or her trade (like being a carpenter for instance) and went though the country (s) preaching ?
I do not think Jesus could be described as a capitalist.

That thought has ocurred to me.

[agoodfoundation]

He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose.-Jim Elliott

[Alamoman]

If you are like millions of so called "Christians" in America you may or may not have gone to church. Even among those who faithfully attend church many do not pay tithes back to God. Hows that you say? God created us and everything we have comes from him. He commanded us to give back ten percent of what we make to him (normally thru our local church). Many church goers limit their giving to five or ten dollars.

Let me get this straight............if I didn't attend church last week and/or give my 10%, I'm a "so called Christian..?" Somehow I missed that teaching.

I did attend Church, by the way; however, no Christian is perfect, my friend. None of us do everything we're commanded to do everyday. I certainly don't.. Those who claim they do are lying IMHO.

[Koushi Shinigami]

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me and their 10%."


:rolleyes:

[Greyclouds]

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me and their 10%."


:rolleyes:

Or everyone's favorite interpretation:

The worker who produced 10 more talents after investing the single one his master had given him was praised. Ergo, make as MUCH money as you can people! I don't care HOW it's done!

[Jeemie]

I'd like to know how it's possible to rob an all-powerful deity.

I mean, if it's God's money, he's gonna get it no matter what I do, right?

[captusa]

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me and their 10%."


:rolleyes:

You find all the verses and quotes that non-believers choose to omit.
You did a great job finding that quote about God in Newton's Theory of Gravity that all the Atheist Anti-God physics teachers I had chose to omit.

[Koushi Shinigami]

I like to ask the question "What is the poster REALLY saying?".

;)

[Greyclouds]

I like to ask the question "What is the poster REALLY saying?".

;)

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/marynjade/show_money.jpg

This?

[agoodfoundation]

Or everyone's favorite interpretation:

The worker who produced 10 more talents after investing the single one his master had given him was praised. Ergo, make as MUCH money as you can people! I don't care HOW it's done!


nothing to do with the topic but GO Capitalism!!!

[meggers49]

I don't agree with this interpretation. I believe that they held back a portion and lied about how much they received for the land, not how much they gave for distribution.

Listen, all of you guys are more than welcome to continue to give what you give. It is between you and God. My personal conviction is my personal conviction. Your conviction is your conviction. I am not going to change my mind. You are not going to change my mind. I am not going to change your mind. When I get to heaven, if Paul sits me down and says, "Dude, you didn't have to give 10%," I won't regret anything.

first of all, Paul isn't going to do any kind of judging about anything in heaven, especially how much someone gives at church.

I think Paul would probably find you even contemplating him saying such a thing horrific.

As to tithes. I give what I can to church. I have a husband who doesn't attend and while he doesn't necessarily complain that I give, when a total is seen or something comes up, I hear about how much I have given to the church. Yet I give anyway. No a lot, but something. (actually for a couple years, I gave no funds to the church, because I found their change in attitude ...with new staff, improper, as did many. We have a new staff and offerings have increased substantially, when I didn't give financially, I gave of my time and talent).

God knows what I have and what I can give. He has always blessed us with funds when we've needed them, whenever we've needed them. Currently, His generosity is overflowing, though my giving CERTAINLY isn't 10% of any number you'd try and figure out, neither net, gross, mine, my husband's or ours combined...

I think to say that not giving 10% is robbing God is robbing God of the ability to know our hearts. I also think God is probably more interested in our giving of ourselves than of money.

And honestly, if you measure your faith by how much you give...how much faith do you have? And what do you think God (and Paul) would think of you, if you came under negative circumstances and couldn't give that any more. what if you have nothing to give?


sorry, I think this idea of robbing God is ludicrous and I think you'll have more to answer to God about your judgementalism toward people who do not tithe than he would if you didn't give 10%.

[agoodfoundation]

first of all, Paul isn't going to do any kind of judging about anything in heaven, especially how much someone gives at church.

I think Paul would probably find you even contemplating him saying such a thing horrific.

As to tithes. I give what I can to church. I have a husband who doesn't attend and while he doesn't necessarily complain that I give, when a total is seen or something comes up, I hear about how much I have given to the church. Yet I give anyway. No a lot, but something. (actually for a couple years, I gave no funds to the church, because I found their change in attitude ...with new staff, improper, as did many. We have a new staff and offerings have increased substantially, when I didn't give financially, I gave of my time and talent).

God knows what I have and what I can give. He has always blessed us with funds when we've needed them, whenever we've needed them. Currently, His generosity is overflowing, though my giving CERTAINLY isn't 10% of any number you'd try and figure out, neither net, gross, mine, my husband's or ours combined...

I think to say that not giving 10% is robbing God is robbing God of the ability to know our hearts. I also think God is probably more interested in our giving of ourselves than of money.

And honestly, if you measure your faith by how much you give...how much faith do you have? And what do you think God (and Paul) would think of you, if you came under negative circumstances and couldn't give that any more. what if you have nothing to give?


sorry, I think this idea of robbing God is ludicrous and I think you'll have more to answer to God about your judgementalism toward people who do not tithe than he would if you didn't give 10%.

I agree with the fact that God wants more that our money, he wants us to have faith in him that he will provide for us.


But God does say in Malachi that we will be cursed if we don't tithe.

Malachi 3:7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

[meggers49]

I agree with the fact that God wants more that our money, he wants us to have faith in him that he will provide for us.


But God does say in Malachi that we will be cursed if we don't tithe.

Malachi 3:7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

that was a behavior and rule for that time. I don't see anywhere that it would apply for us now. I also find it hard to believe that God would deny thousands of people access to heaven if they didn't give their quota to God. I am pretty sure that if that was the rule needed to curry God's favor, it would have been expressed in the NT somewhere about what we need to continue to do.

[agoodfoundation]

that was a behavior and rule for that time. I don't see anywhere that it would apply for us now. I also find it hard to believe that God would deny thousands of people access to heaven if they didn't give their quota to God. I am pretty sure that if that was the rule needed to curry God's favor, it would have been expressed in the NT somewhere about what we need to continue to do.


you don't get denied Heaven because you didnt pay tithes. You get denied Heaven for not believing on God's Son.

And yes God it is expresses in the NT

2 Cor 9:

6But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; 13Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

[WALKINGHADLEY]

6But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.



Faith without works is dead. We need to put our money where our mouth is. Jesus Christ invested everything in us. It is a small thing to request that men give back ten percent to him. Everything we own and earn is thru him.

[psyko kat]

I remember when Billy Graham was on Johnny Carson's show one night/ He was wearing a very NICE suit, and Johnny reached over to feel the sleeve, and commented on the quality./, Billy smiled and said something to the effect, ''Yes, the LORD does provide, doesn't He.'' -- so just WHO gets the money that is donated.?