Reigning with Christ

[cbut1]

Reigning with Christ

Zephaniah 3:14

“Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, He hath cast out thine enemy: the King of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.”

Introduction
A little research of the book of Zephaniah reveals a time period of 625-610 B.C. Zephaniah was the great, great grandson of king Hezekiah and therefore of royal blood. He ministered during the days of king Josiah, Judah's last godly ruler. It is probable that his ministry helped prepare for the great revival of 621 B.C., which occurred under Josiah's reign when the law of Moses was re-discovered during the repair of the temple (2 Chronicles 34 & 35). The book deals with God's judgments as well as His justice meted out to His people.

I. Judgment is Pronounced

A. Judgment Upon the Land of God

(1:2-4) The fact of God's judgment; God would take away everything in the land.

(1:5, 6) The reason for God's judgment; Judah had sinned by worshipping Baal (god of the Canaanites) and Milcom (an Ammonite god). By doing so, they ignored the worship of the One True God.

(1:7, 8,14,18 ; 2:2, 3) The name of the judgment; "The day of the Lord."

(1:14-18) The results of the judgment; it appears that Zephaniah had in mind the historical invasion of Babylon (605-586 B.C.). A study of the New Testament would also concur that it had to do with the yet future Great Tribulation (Revelation 6:12-17).

B. Judgment Upon the Enemies of God

(2:4-6) The judgment of God would fall upon the Philistine cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod & Ekron.

(2:8-10) Moab and Ammon were to be destroyed for mocking Judah and invading her land (Genesis 19).

(2:12) Ethiopia would be judged.

(2:13-15) Assyria and Nineveh would likewise be destroyed.

C. Judgment Upon the City of God

(1:10) The cry of alarm begins at the Fish Gate in Jerusalem and continues until it reaches the highest point.

(1:12,13) A revealing of God's plans to search out the land.

(3:1-7) The city's leaders were like roaring lions and ravenous wolves.

II. Good News Announced by the Prophet

A. Justice Upon the Enemies of God

(3:9,10) The nations given a common language and the privilege of approaching God with their offerings.

B. Justice Upon the Land of God

(3:13) The land of Israel will be at rest with no enemy to rise up against them.

C. Justice Upon the City of God

(3:14-20) Jerusalem will once again be filled with singing, for the theme of their song -- the King of kings and King of Israel -- will be on the throne. This reference is to the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ. During such time all nations will worship God, Israel will dwell in peace and Jerusalem will be filled with singing.

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ? (Revelation 5:10). The first thing that is necessary to assure this reign with Christ is repentance of sin and faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus Christ. The second necessity is scriptural baptism, and the third necessity is a daily walk with Jesus Christ.

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?

[gpd®]

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?

I am sorry, and and I am not being sarcastic, but how did the thief crucified next to Christ enter paradise without being baptized? Or was it that we don't know if he was baptized or not?

[Reeder]

I am sorry, and and I am not being sarcastic, but how did the thief crucified next to Christ enter paradise without being baptized? Or was it that we don't know if he was baptized or not?

Perhaps it was because he was still under the Old Covanent?? Or perhaps "Paradise" is not synonymous with "heaven," or the place where God dwells.

[Lie Sniper]

Reigning with Christ

Zephaniah 3:14

“Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, He hath cast out thine enemy: the King of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.”

Introduction
A little research of the book of Zephaniah reveals a time period of 625-610 B.C. Zephaniah was the great, great grandson of king Hezekiah and therefore of royal blood. He ministered during the days of king Josiah, Judah's last godly ruler. It is probable that his ministry helped prepare for the great revival of 621 B.C., which occurred under Josiah's reign when the law of Moses was re-discovered during the repair of the temple (2 Chronicles 34 & 35). The book deals with God's judgments as well as His justice meted out to His people.

I. Judgment is Pronounced

A. Judgment Upon the Land of God

(1:2-4) The fact of God's judgment; God would take away everything in the land.

(1:5, 6) The reason for God's judgment; Judah had sinned by worshipping Baal (god of the Canaanites) and Milcom (an Ammonite god). By doing so, they ignored the worship of the One True God.

(1:7, 8,14,18 ; 2:2, 3) The name of the judgment; "The day of the Lord."

(1:14-18) The results of the judgment; it appears that Zephaniah had in mind the historical invasion of Babylon (605-586 B.C.). A study of the New Testament would also concur that it had to do with the yet future Great Tribulation (Revelation 6:12-17).

B. Judgment Upon the Enemies of God

(2:4-6) The judgment of God would fall upon the Philistine cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod & Ekron.

(2:8-10) Moab and Ammon were to be destroyed for mocking Judah and invading her land (Genesis 19).

(2:12) Ethiopia would be judged.

(2:13-15) Assyria and Nineveh would likewise be destroyed.

C. Judgment Upon the City of God

(1:10) The cry of alarm begins at the Fish Gate in Jerusalem and continues until it reaches the highest point.

(1:12,13) A revealing of God's plans to search out the land.

(3:1-7) The city's leaders were like roaring lions and ravenous wolves.

II. Good News Announced by the Prophet

A. Justice Upon the Enemies of God

(3:9,10) The nations given a common language and the privilege of approaching God with their offerings.

B. Justice Upon the Land of God

(3:13) The land of Israel will be at rest with no enemy to rise up against them.

C. Justice Upon the City of God

(3:14-20) Jerusalem will once again be filled with singing, for the theme of their song -- the King of kings and King of Israel -- will be on the throne. This reference is to the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ. During such time all nations will worship God, Israel will dwell in peace and Jerusalem will be filled with singing.

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ? (Revelation 5:10). The first thing that is necessary to assure this reign with Christ is repentance of sin and faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus Christ. The second necessity is scriptural baptism, and the third necessity is a daily walk with Jesus Christ.

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?

Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?

I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?

[gpd®]

Perhaps it was because he was still under the Old Covanent?? Or perhaps "Paradise" is not synonymous with "heaven," or the place where God dwells.

I guess I have heard those theories before.

eta: I am wondering why the Word of God would leave that mystery for us to figure out.

[Reeder]

I guess I have heard those theories before.

eta: I am wondering why the Word of God would leave that mystery for us to figure out.

Actually, it explains both (at least to me).

The idea that the thief was still under the Old Covanent is not a brain buster. Christ had not yet died and His atonement was not yet complete.



The idea that "Paradise" may not be the same place as "heaven" (or the place where God dwells) is also explained (at least to me :D):



Luke 23: 43

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.




And, three days later, Christ said to Mary:




John 20: 17

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


In other words, if you believe the thief was with Christ in Paradise the day He died, and if Christ said (3 days later) that He had not yet ascended to His Father, then clearly "Paradise" and "the place where God the Father is" are not the same.

[DRS]

Does one really get to say they rule with Jesus or are they chosen, all Israelites had the same law code but not all of Israel qualified to be in the messiannic line and not all got to serve as priests

[RayMan]

Perhaps it was because he was still under the Old Covanent?? Or perhaps "Paradise" is not synonymous with "heaven," or the place where God dwells.



Bullseye!

Give that man a Kewpie Doll.

[Mikko]

Reigning with Christ

Zephaniah 3:14

“Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, He hath cast out thine enemy: the King of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.”

Introduction
A little research of the book of Zephaniah reveals a time period of 625-610 B.C. Zephaniah was the great, great grandson of king Hezekiah and therefore of royal blood. He ministered during the days of king Josiah, Judah's last godly ruler. It is probable that his ministry helped prepare for the great revival of 621 B.C., which occurred under Josiah's reign when the law of Moses was re-discovered during the repair of the temple (2 Chronicles 34 & 35). The book deals with God's judgments as well as His justice meted out to His people.

I. Judgment is Pronounced

A. Judgment Upon the Land of God

(1:2-4) The fact of God's judgment; God would take away everything in the land.

(1:5, 6) The reason for God's judgment; Judah had sinned by worshipping Baal (god of the Canaanites) and Milcom (an Ammonite god). By doing so, they ignored the worship of the One True God.

(1:7, 8,14,18 ; 2:2, 3) The name of the judgment; "The day of the Lord."

(1:14-18) The results of the judgment; it appears that Zephaniah had in mind the historical invasion of Babylon (605-586 B.C.). A study of the New Testament would also concur that it had to do with the yet future Great Tribulation (Revelation 6:12-17).

B. Judgment Upon the Enemies of God

(2:4-6) The judgment of God would fall upon the Philistine cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod & Ekron.

(2:8-10) Moab and Ammon were to be destroyed for mocking Judah and invading her land (Genesis 19).

(2:12) Ethiopia would be judged.

(2:13-15) Assyria and Nineveh would likewise be destroyed.

C. Judgment Upon the City of God

(1:10) The cry of alarm begins at the Fish Gate in Jerusalem and continues until it reaches the highest point.

(1:12,13) A revealing of God's plans to search out the land.

(3:1-7) The city's leaders were like roaring lions and ravenous wolves.

II. Good News Announced by the Prophet

A. Justice Upon the Enemies of God

(3:9,10) The nations given a common language and the privilege of approaching God with their offerings.

B. Justice Upon the Land of God

(3:13) The land of Israel will be at rest with no enemy to rise up against them.

C. Justice Upon the City of God

(3:14-20) Jerusalem will once again be filled with singing, for the theme of their song -- the King of kings and King of Israel -- will be on the throne. This reference is to the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ. During such time all nations will worship God, Israel will dwell in peace and Jerusalem will be filled with singing.

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ? (Revelation 5:10). The first thing that is necessary to assure this reign with Christ is repentance of sin and faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus Christ. The second necessity is scriptural baptism, and the third necessity is a daily walk with Jesus Christ.

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?
I stand in amazement at the substitution of narrative analysis for expansion of consciousness.:)

[Ron Jon]

I guess I have heard those theories before.

eta: I am wondering why the Word of God would leave that mystery for us to figure out.Another point of view would be that at the time Jesus told the repentant thief that he would be with Christ in Paradise that day, Paradise was still a part of the underworld that Christ referred to when He relayed the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Paradise is equated with Abraham's Bosom.

http://www.preservedwords.com/images/underworld.gif

When Christ rose from the grave, He conquered death and He took all of the Saints who previously were in Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) up to Heaven. This seems just as plausible as Reeder's viewpoint.

[smyrna]

Reigning with Christ

Zephaniah 3:14

“Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, He hath cast out thine enemy: the King of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.”

Introduction
A little research of the book of Zephaniah reveals a time period of 625-610 B.C. Zephaniah was the great, great grandson of king Hezekiah and therefore of royal blood. He ministered during the days of king Josiah, Judah's last godly ruler. It is probable that his ministry helped prepare for the great revival of 621 B.C., which occurred under Josiah's reign when the law of Moses was re-discovered during the repair of the temple (2 Chronicles 34 & 35). The book deals with God's judgments as well as His justice meted out to His people.

I. Judgment is Pronounced

A. Judgment Upon the Land of God

(1:2-4) The fact of God's judgment; God would take away everything in the land.

(1:5, 6) The reason for God's judgment; Judah had sinned by worshipping Baal (god of the Canaanites) and Milcom (an Ammonite god). By doing so, they ignored the worship of the One True God.

(1:7, 8,14,18 ; 2:2, 3) The name of the judgment; "The day of the Lord."

(1:14-18) The results of the judgment; it appears that Zephaniah had in mind the historical invasion of Babylon (605-586 B.C.). A study of the New Testament would also concur that it had to do with the yet future Great Tribulation (Revelation 6:12-17).

B. Judgment Upon the Enemies of God

(2:4-6) The judgment of God would fall upon the Philistine cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod & Ekron.

(2:8-10) Moab and Ammon were to be destroyed for mocking Judah and invading her land (Genesis 19).

(2:12) Ethiopia would be judged.

(2:13-15) Assyria and Nineveh would likewise be destroyed.

C. Judgment Upon the City of God

(1:10) The cry of alarm begins at the Fish Gate in Jerusalem and continues until it reaches the highest point.

(1:12,13) A revealing of God's plans to search out the land.

(3:1-7) The city's leaders were like roaring lions and ravenous wolves.

II. Good News Announced by the Prophet

A. Justice Upon the Enemies of God

(3:9,10) The nations given a common language and the privilege of approaching God with their offerings.

B. Justice Upon the Land of God

(3:13) The land of Israel will be at rest with no enemy to rise up against them.

C. Justice Upon the City of God

(3:14-20) Jerusalem will once again be filled with singing, for the theme of their song -- the King of kings and King of Israel -- will be on the throne. This reference is to the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ. During such time all nations will worship God, Israel will dwell in peace and Jerusalem will be filled with singing.

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ? (Revelation 5:10). The first thing that is necessary to assure this reign with Christ is repentance of sin and faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus Christ. The second necessity is scriptural baptism, and the third necessity is a daily walk with Jesus Christ.

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?

I stand on trying to love the Lord with all of my heart. I still haven't gotten past that yet.

[Semi-Sweet]

Would God use symbolic language just to appeal to our curiosity, or was it to avoid incurring more persecutions caused by plainly identifying the men and powers involved? :think:

Is it reasonable to think that inspired prophets gave disciples the key to understanding those prophesies? Why do we not have that key to understanding? :think:

I don't know, but perhaps it is because that, after the prophecies were fulfilled, they were not relevant to us in in later times. We can see historically what took place, making the symbols irrelevant to us.

I wonder if some of our dearly departed arriving on the other side said "thank God I made it here due to my understanding of the prophecies in the Revelation." :think:

[Thank you Troops]

Cool another baptism thread. Can people on their death beds be saved?

[cbut1]

I am sorry, and and I am not being sarcastic, but how did the thief crucified next to Christ enter paradise without being baptized? Or was it that we don't know if he was baptized or not?

Many believe that the thief was covered under the OT covenant largly in part to the fact that Christ had not yet shed His Blood for the sins of mankind. As well as He had not yet been raised in victory over death. Under the OT the sign of the covenant was circumcision.

[cbut1]

Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?

I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?

Faith is the requirement regardless of the time period it is covering, OT or NT

[cbut1]

Cool another baptism thread. Can people on their death beds be saved?

As long as a man has air in his lungs on this side of death he can repent and be saved. That does not mean though that he will rule and reign with Christ.

[Andrew_980]

Cool another baptism thread. Can people on their death beds be saved?

if there is enough water:mrgreen:

[Lie Sniper]

Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?
Faith is the requirement regardless of the time period it is covering, OT or NT


Thanks. You addressed one of my questions above.
You must have forgot these other two below;



I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?


Care to take a stab at these?;)

[smyrna]

Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?



Thanks. You addressed one of my questions above.
You must have forgot these other two below;



I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?


Care to take a stab at these?;)

I don't think I would label it as a competition to get into heaven but more of with the talents that the Lord gave you, what percent of yourself did you give back? This will be used as a ranking system of some sort that I don't fully understand. This ranking is used to decide your level of leadership not admission.

[Lie Sniper]

I don't think I would label it as a competition to get into heaven but more of with the talents that the Lord gave you, what percent of yourself did you give back? This will be used as a ranking system of some sort that I don't fully understand. This ranking is used to decide your level of leadership not admission.

Kinda like a job or school. Do we get quarterly or yearly reviews?;)
Will the ranking system us a bell curve or is it on straight percentage?
I would really like to know where I'm ranked. How can I find that out?

[TaylorW65]

Reigning with Christ

Zephaniah 3:14

“Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, He hath cast out thine enemy: the King of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.”

Introduction
A little research of the book of Zephaniah reveals a time period of 625-610 B.C. Zephaniah was the great, great grandson of king Hezekiah and therefore of royal blood. He ministered during the days of king Josiah, Judah's last godly ruler. It is probable that his ministry helped prepare for the great revival of 621 B.C., which occurred under Josiah's reign when the law of Moses was re-discovered during the repair of the temple (2 Chronicles 34 & 35). The book deals with God's judgments as well as His justice meted out to His people.

I. Judgment is Pronounced

A. Judgment Upon the Land of God

(1:2-4) The fact of God's judgment; God would take away everything in the land.

(1:5, 6) The reason for God's judgment; Judah had sinned by worshipping Baal (god of the Canaanites) and Milcom (an Ammonite god). By doing so, they ignored the worship of the One True God.

(1:7, 8,14,18 ; 2:2, 3) The name of the judgment; "The day of the Lord."

(1:14-18) The results of the judgment; it appears that Zephaniah had in mind the historical invasion of Babylon (605-586 B.C.). A study of the New Testament would also concur that it had to do with the yet future Great Tribulation (Revelation 6:12-17).

B. Judgment Upon the Enemies of God

(2:4-6) The judgment of God would fall upon the Philistine cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod & Ekron.

(2:8-10) Moab and Ammon were to be destroyed for mocking Judah and invading her land (Genesis 19).

(2:12) Ethiopia would be judged.

(2:13-15) Assyria and Nineveh would likewise be destroyed.

C. Judgment Upon the City of God

(1:10) The cry of alarm begins at the Fish Gate in Jerusalem and continues until it reaches the highest point.

(1:12,13) A revealing of God's plans to search out the land.

(3:1-7) The city's leaders were like roaring lions and ravenous wolves.

II. Good News Announced by the Prophet

A. Justice Upon the Enemies of God

(3:9,10) The nations given a common language and the privilege of approaching God with their offerings.

B. Justice Upon the Land of God

(3:13) The land of Israel will be at rest with no enemy to rise up against them.

C. Justice Upon the City of God

(3:14-20) Jerusalem will once again be filled with singing, for the theme of their song -- the King of kings and King of Israel -- will be on the throne. This reference is to the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ. During such time all nations will worship God, Israel will dwell in peace and Jerusalem will be filled with singing.

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ? (Revelation 5:10). The first thing that is necessary to assure this reign with Christ is repentance of sin and faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus Christ. The second necessity is scriptural baptism, and the third necessity is a daily walk with Jesus Christ.

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?


I have a strong faith in God through Jesus. I keep it real simple. I want my life and my heart to reflect the love of God as modeled by Jesus.

But it amazes me how so many people are sure they know exactly what is going to happen in the next life.

I hardly know what is going on in this one.

But one thing I am certain about...we will all be very surprised.

[terri910]

But it amazes me how so many people are sure they know exactly what is going to happen in the next life.

I hardly know what is going on in this one.

Oh, my heavens...Amen, and amen. You and me both.

[RayMan]

Kinda like a job or school. Do we get quarterly or yearly reviews?;)
Will the ranking system us a bell curve or is it on straight percentage?
I would really like to know where I'm ranked. How can I find that out?

That's Great White Throne material right there.

[jmatteson]

I wonder if Louis Farakan will now begin holding service at the White House, seeing that the "Messiah" now resides there?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ?




Why would I want to?

[whistlingdixie]

I wonder if Louis Farakan will now begin holding service at the White House, seeing that the "Messiah" now resides there?
I heard his invitation was already in the mail.

I'm glad some people have this all figured out.. as for me, I'm just trying to get thru the day. I've trusted Jesus with my future, so I'll let him worry about it.

[Quantrill]

To TaylorW65 (reply #21)

Pleased to meet you. If you choose to keep it simple, thats up to you. Yet that doesn't mean its not there to know.

And, since you don't have any idea yourself of what the "next life" is going to be like, then you can't say we will all be surprised. How do you know we will be surprised?

Quantrill

[TaylorW65]

To TaylorW65 (reply #21)

Pleased to meet you. If you choose to keep it simple, thats up to you. Yet that doesn't mean its not there to know.

And, since you don't have any idea yourself of what the "next life" is going to be like, then you can't say we will all be surprised. How do you know we will be surprised?

Quantrill


Please to meet you too. :)


I think that we may have glimpses of what heaven might be like, but I also have a hard time thinking we can possibly know everything. We are after all human.

"But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9.

This tells me that there will be many surprises in store.

I have also met some people who are so certain who won't be in heaven and what religious groups won't be there.

I'm sure we will all have some surprises.

[Quantrill]

To TaylorW65

There are things yet to experience for the believer that he can't know here. Such as being in a sinless condition and in a world without sin. But, those things are not a surprise in that we didn't know they would happen. We know they will.

As to who is in heaven, we can know for sure, that there won't be anyone there who has rejected Jesus Christ as the Son of God and their Saviour. We may not know all who have, and be surprised at those who have. Or we may be surprised at those who have told us they have but really haven't. But I can assure you no one will be there who has rejected Christ.

1Cor.9 is telling us we can't know the things of God by the physical. Paul goes on to say in 10-12 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea the deep things of God...even so the things of God knoweth noman, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God: that we might know....."

Quantrill

[Mikko]

It's all an old guy's dream-vision.:)

[smyrna]

Kinda like a job or school. Do we get quarterly or yearly reviews?;)
Will the ranking system us a bell curve or is it on straight percentage?
I would really like to know where I'm ranked. How can I find that out?

Lie Sniper, may be I am misinterpretting this scripture. If so, I apologize. I didn't mean to upset you.

Luke 19:17-19 (New American Standard Bible)



17"And he said to him, 'Well done, good slave, because you have been (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019%20:17-19;&version=49;#cen-NASB-25749A))faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.'
18"The second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.' 19"And he said to him also, 'And you are to be over five cities.'

I thought this to be a ranking system. How do you interpret it?

[cbut1]

Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?



Thanks. You addressed one of my questions above.
You must have forgot these other two below;



I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?


Care to take a stab at these?;)


Sorry I forgot to get back to this.

I will answer after a few hours sleep.

[Lie Sniper]

Lie Sniper, may be I am misinterpretting this scripture. If so, I apologize. I didn't mean to upset you.

Luke 19:17-19 (New American Standard Bible)



17"And he said to him, 'Well done, good slave, because you have been (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019%20:17-19;&version=49;#cen-NASB-25749A))faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.'
18"The second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.' 19"And he said to him also, 'And you are to be over five cities.'

I thought this to be a ranking system. How do you interpret it?

No need to apologize, all though I appreciate the gesture. :)
I'm not upset.

IMO, the Parable of the ten Minas, represents our gifts (see also Talents) given to us, according to our ability. Some of us are given ten, (Minas, Talents, Gifts) and are expected to be productive with what we are given. The same with five. The point is, IMO, that even those who are only given one, according to their ability, are expected to be productive with what they are given.
Everyone has been given at least one, (Mina, Talent, Gift) and we are expected to discover what that is and use it for the greater glory of the Gift Giver(God).

Where I get lost, confused, or lack understanding is when this valuable information, into our understanding of service to God, gets turned it to a competition between fellow servants in Christ and a worldly measuring stick is used to determine who God will deem more worthy. Its like human greed is applied to the love and service of our Creator. We say, "I did more so I should get more." I think Jesus' answer to that, is in this parable, saying, "You were able to do more because I (Jesus)gave you more (Minas, talents, gifts)with which to do in service to me.

The point of the parable again IMO, is that where much is given, much is expected, and even where little is given, we are to do what we can with what we have, in service to our Lord.:cool:

[Lie Sniper]

That's Great White Throne material right there.

If Judgement is made in this way, I might need to file a grievance, because I've received no reviews, action plans, mid-terms etc... to let me know I'm on the right track and to show me where I need to improve.

All I have to go on is my own feeble understanding of the bible.
NO FAIR!!!!:cry:

[Koushi Shinigami]

That's Great White Throne material right there.

A little 'toilet humor', Ray?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Where I get lost, confused, or lack understanding is when this valuable information, into our understanding of service to God, gets turned it to a competition between fellow servants in Christ and a worldly measuring stick is used to determine who God will deem more worthy. Its like human greed is applied to the love and service of our Creator. We say, "I did more so I should get more." I think Jesus' answer to that, is in this parable, saying, "You were able to do more because I (Jesus)gave you more (Minas, talents, gifts)with which to do in service to me.

The point of the parable again IMO, is that where much is given, much is expected, and even where little is given, we are to do what we can with what we have, in service to our Lord.:cool:

:clap: :clap: BRAVO!!!! :clap: :clap:

[RayMan]

A little 'toilet humor', Ray?

I gotta be more careful about giving you straight lines to work with.

[Koushi Shinigami]

I gotta be more careful about giving you straight lines to work with.

:dance:

[hben]

Cool another baptism thread. Can people on their death beds be saved?

Absolutely. The thief on the cross beside Jesus was hanging on his death bed. ;)

[Koushi Shinigami]

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ?




Why would I want to?


Bump

[BOOOOOOSHHHH]

you do not have to be baptized to go to Heaven.Where is that said in the bible?You need to be born again.Salvation by Grace.

[hben]

Why would I want to?

For the same reason I served as Mayor for a few years and City Councilman before that...because I was asked to do so by people who needed me to.

[Jacob_Rising]

I'm not upset.

IMO, the Parable of the ten Minas, represents our gifts (see also Talents) given to us, according to our ability. In Jewish thought it would be obvious why the number ten comes up in so many of Jesus words.

Ten Virgins represent a Minyan.

Ten Minas to ten servants represents a Minyan.

This Term is derived from Abraham's intercession on behalf of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genisis 18. God told Abraham he would not destroy the city if there were ten rightous found within it.

Ten represents a legal congragation of Believers in God.

This is exactly why Jesus kept using this number over and over to express his knowledge of the kingdom of heaven because the kingdom of heaven is the congregation of believers of Yeshuah.

Everytime he speaks this way, he is speaking to his congregation, his followers, his citizens and where they are in the kingdom of heaven.

Everything Jesus says relates to different ranks as you call them.

The kingdom of heaven is like, the kingdom of heaven is like, the kingdom of heaven is like.

He said that so many times and everytime he said it , He showed you the different levels.

He shows you virgins who are saved but not allowed in the wedding door.

He shows us many different types of believers in Yeshuah who are either carnel or overcomers and he shows you the different rewards of each.

It all comes down to that wedding door, and the people who walk through that door on that specific Jewish day.

Those are the only ones who reign, the rest wait for the second judgement.

[cbut1]

Bump

What type of response would you like me to offer. I already know that you doubt many things so what is it you would like to hear. If I give what you want to hear will you hear it and understand it and further have faith elevated because of it?

I dunno.

[cbut1]

you do not have to be baptized to go to Heaven.Where is that said in the bible?You need to be born again.Salvation by Grace.

One does not need to be Baptised to be saved from death/hell.

[cbut1]

[QUOTE=Lie Sniper;47467281]Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?



Thanks. You addressed one of my questions above.
You must have forgot these other two below;



I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

I offer that if what you say is and remains true that Christ has promised those of mankind that are faithful will reign with Him in the Kingdom age.

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?


There is no competition if there was then Christ rebuking James and John for competing (or was that there Mother asking? now I have to go re-read) for the priviledge to sit on Christ right side, would not have been necessary.

There is however evidence scripturally that the measure of ones faith in the matter of ones talents can engender a more prominent placing at the feast table. Then again in that age and time I don't think that any self absorbed desires will be present.

[Jacob_Rising]

[QUOTE]

I offer that if what you say is and remains true that Christ has promised those of mankind that are faithful will reign with Him in the Kingdom age.

Faithful in what?

Mathew 7:23 '' Lord, Lord, Have we not prophecied in your name, cast out demons in your name'' And then I will declare to them, '' I never knew you: depart from me, you who practice lawlessness''

Revelation 22: 14 '' Blessed are those who do his commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life''

'' He who keeps the laws of Moses and teaches men to do also will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven''

These are the faithfull according to Jesus.

[Koushi Shinigami]

If I give what you want to hear will you hear it


Yes.

and understand it


Yes.

and further have faith elevated because of it?


No.

[cbut1]

Yes.



Yes.



No.


Ever hear of casting Pearls before Swine? ;)

[Koushi Shinigami]

Ever hear of casting Pearls before Swine? ;)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo240/koushishinigami/Razorback-1.jpg


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PIG SUEY!!!!!

[Lie Sniper]

In Jewish thought it would be obvious why the number ten comes up in so many of Jesus words.

Ten Virgins represent a Minyan.

Ten Minas to ten servants represents a Minyan.

This Term is derived from Abraham's intercession on behalf of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genisis 18. God told Abraham he would not destroy the city if there were ten rightous found within it.

Ten represents a legal congragation of Believers in God.

This is exactly why Jesus kept using this number over and over to express his knowledge of the kingdom of heaven because the kingdom of heaven is the congregation of believers of Yeshuah.

Everytime he speaks this way, he is speaking to his congregation, his followers, his citizens and where they are in the kingdom of heaven.

Everything Jesus says relates to different ranks as you call them.

The kingdom of heaven is like, the kingdom of heaven is like, the kingdom of heaven is like.

He said that so many times and everytime he said it , He showed you the different levels.

He shows you virgins who are saved but not allowed in the wedding door.

He shows us many different types of believers in Yeshuah who are either carnel or overcomers and he shows you the different rewards of each.

It all comes down to that wedding door, and the people who walk through that door on that specific Jewish day.

Those are the only ones who reign, the rest wait for the second judgement.

Thank you for your interpretation.
So only God's Elect will reign, correct?
How do I know if I'm one of God's Elect?
If I'm not one of God's Elect, how do I become one?

[Lie Sniper]

i offer that if what you say is and remains true that christ has promised those of mankind that are faithful will reign with him in the kingdom age.




There is no competition if there was then christ rebuking james and john for competing (or was that there mother asking? Now i have to go re-read) for the priviledge to sit on christ right side, would not have been necessary.

There is however evidence scripturally that the measure of ones faith in the matter of ones talents can engender a more prominent placing at the feast table. Then again in that age and time i don't think that any self absorbed desires will be present.

ok.

[Lie Sniper]

Faithful in what?

Mathew 7:23 '' Lord, Lord, Have we not prophecied in your name, cast out demons in your name'' And then I will declare to them, '' I never knew you: depart from me, you who practice lawlessness''

Revelation 22: 14 '' Blessed are those who do his commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life''

'' He who keeps the laws of Moses and teaches men to do also will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven''

These are the faithfull according to Jesus.

Help me understand, what was Jesus talking about during the sermon on the mount?
Did he make it sound possible to always follow the commandments, in your opinion?

What does it mean when scripture says "All have fallen short"?

[Koushi Shinigami]

There is however evidence scripturally that the measure of ones faith in the matter of ones talents can engender a more prominent placing at the feast table. Then again in that age and time I don't think that any self absorbed desires will be present.

Then what difference will it make? Work hard here on Earth to earn a more prominent place at the table at wich no one present will be caring where they sit. Doesn't make much sense.

[Lie Sniper]

Then what difference will it make? Work hard here on Earth to earn a more prominent place at the table at wich no one present will be caring where they sit. Doesn't make much sense.

It doesn't need to make sense, as long as I get a better place than you.:razz:

[Lie Sniper]

Ever hear of casting Pearls before Swine? ;)

Feels like that on this forum sometimes, doesn't it?;)

[cbut1]

Then what difference will it make? Work hard here on Earth to earn a more prominent place at the table at wich no one present will be caring where they sit. Doesn't make much sense.

The goal as I understand it is to make it to the Kingdom once there it is all gravy. ;)

[Koushi Shinigami]

It doesn't need to make sense, as long as I get a better place than you.:razz:

Go ahead. I'll give you my place. In a place of only happiness, what would I care?

[Koushi Shinigami]

The goal as I understand it is to make it to the Kingdom once there it is all gravy. ;)

Then why this?

There is however evidence scripturally that the measure of ones faith in the matter of ones talents can engender a more prominent placing at the feast table.


And why the talk of 'Reigning with Christ' as if that would somehow make being in the Kingdom better. If it's all gravy once one is inside, then how can it be any gravier? Gravy is gravy.

[Lie Sniper]

Go ahead. I'll give you my place. In a place of only happiness, what would I care?

Stop using logic and get with the program!;)

[Koushi Shinigami]

Stop using logic and get with the program!;)

Illogic reigns supreme.

[Lie Sniper]

Then why this?



And why the talk of 'Reigning with Christ' as if that would somehow make being in the Kingdom better. If it's all gravy once one is inside, then how can it be any gravier? Gravy is gravy.

Thread Killer.

[cbut1]

Then why this?



And why the talk of 'Reigning with Christ' as if that would somehow make being in the Kingdom better. If it's all gravy once one is inside, then how can it be any gravier? Gravy is gravy.

Only those going into the Kingdom are going to be ruling and reigning with Christ. Thus the efforts to be part of the kingdom must come from this present life here on earth.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Only those going into the Kingdom are going to be ruling and reigning with Christ. Thus the efforts to be part of the kingdom must come from this present life here on earth.

Ruling over whom?

[cbut1]

Ruling over whom?

Those whom did not live the faithful obiediant life in Christ.

Some catagorize mankind as such.

Lost = those who have not accepted Christ as Lord and Savior

Saved = Those who have confessed Christ as Savior (but may or may not live faithfully)

Faithful Saved = Those whom continue in Faith to live a life that reflects Christ (some also call this the Elect)

[Koushi Shinigami]

Those whom did not live the faithful obiediant life in Christ.


Thought they wouldn't be in Heaven to be ruled over.




Some catagorize mankind as such.

Lost = those who have not accepted Christ as Lord and Savior

Saved = Those who have confessed Christ as Savior (but may or may not live faithfully)

Faithful Saved = Those whom continue in Faith to live a life that reflects Christ (some also call this the Elect)

Rankings. How perfectly human.

[Meriweather]

And why the talk of 'Reigning with Christ' as if that would somehow make being in the Kingdom better. If it's all gravy once one is inside, then how can it be any gravier? Gravy is gravy.

If one is going to the trouble of becoming a citizen of a kingdom, why wouldn't he or she want to present herself before the king as His best citizen, not just as a mere citizen?

[cbut1]

Thought they wouldn't be in Heaven to be ruled over.

The Kingdom and Heaven are not synonymous. Heaven is used most often in a generalized way, whereas the Kingdom is specific.




Rankings. How perfectly human

I did say some catagorize it thusly.

[RayMan]

Then why this?



And why the talk of 'Reigning with Christ' as if that would somehow make being in the Kingdom better. If it's all gravy once one is inside, then how can it be any gravier? Gravy is gravy.

You wouldn't say that if you tried my gravy and tried my Mom's. Her's is much gravier.

[Gem]

Cbut, my friend, you lost me.
How do you go from OT judgement, to the requirements of faith in Christ?



Thanks. You addressed one of my questions above.
You must have forgot these other two below;



I believe, ask for forgiveness, try to repent, have been baptized, attempt to follow the commandments and try to serve Christ. So are you saying I will reign with Christ in heaven?

Is there a competition to get a "better place" in heaven, that I'm not aware of?


Care to take a stab at these?;)

Maybe this will help.
Matthew 22: 12-13-14.

" And behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. "

" I am Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. "

blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

[Koushi Shinigami]

If one is going to the trouble of becoming a citizen of a kingdom, why wouldn't he or she want to present herself before the king as His best citizen, not just as a mere citizen?


Because there is no incentive to be better than anyone else, or to be the best you can be yourself.

[Koushi Shinigami]

The Kingdom and Heaven are not synonymous. Heaven is used most often in a generalized way, whereas the Kingdom is specific.


.

Meh. Unless you're telling me there's sorrow in Heaven because one is not in the Kingdom, I see no difference.

Besides, why rule. Jesus said in his organization, the greatest is the least. The rulers will be serving everyone else. I'm planning on relaxing and being happy.

[Meriweather]

Because there is no incentive to be better than anyone else, or to be the best you can be yourself.


Why does one need incentive to be the best one can be? Isn't simple self-respect enough reason to become the best one can be?

[Koushi Shinigami]

Why does one need incentive to be the best one can be? Isn't simple self-respect enough reason to become the best one can be?

When being good enough earns the exact same reward as being the best? Nope.

[Meriweather]

When being good enough earns the exact same reward as being the best? Nope.

What reward could possibly top one's own self-respect? Further, I have no wish to look into God's eyes and find disappointment reflected there. He and I both know what I am capable of.

[Koushi Shinigami]

What reward could possibly top one's own self-respect? Further, I have no wish to look into God's eyes and find disappointment reflected there. He and I both know what I am capable of.

Self-respect does not earn one salvation nor any rewards in Heaven.

[Meriweather]

Self-respect does not earn one salvation nor any rewards in Heaven.

Self-respect is a byproduct of work and accomplishment--just as rewards are a byproduct of putting forth great effort.

I'm kind of tired tonight, so I'll see you again when I awake. I'll bring my attitude-adjusting wrench. ;)

[Koushi Shinigami]

Self-respect is a byproduct of work and accomplishment--just as rewards are a byproduct of putting forth great effort.

I'm kind of tired tonight, so I'll see you again when I awake. I'll bring my attitude-adjusting wrench. ;)

Good night. Better bring the whole tool box. :razz:

[smyrna]

No need to apologize, all though I appreciate the gesture. :)
I'm not upset.

IMO, the Parable of the ten Minas, represents our gifts (see also Talents) given to us, according to our ability. Some of us are given ten, (Minas, Talents, Gifts) and are expected to be productive with what we are given. The same with five. The point is, IMO, that even those who are only given one, according to their ability, are expected to be productive with what they are given.
Everyone has been given at least one, (Mina, Talent, Gift) and we are expected to discover what that is and use it for the greater glory of the Gift Giver(God).

Where I get lost, confused, or lack understanding is when this valuable information, into our understanding of service to God, gets turned it to a competition between fellow servants in Christ and a worldly measuring stick is used to determine who God will deem more worthy. Its like human greed is applied to the love and service of our Creator. We say, "I did more so I should get more." I think Jesus' answer to that, is in this parable, saying, "You were able to do more because I (Jesus)gave you more (Minas, talents, gifts)with which to do in service to me.

The point of the parable again IMO, is that where much is given, much is expected, and even where little is given, we are to do what we can with what we have, in service to our Lord.:cool:


Agreed. Look at it again, he told each that they would be Lord over cities vs not the Lord over the city. That is the ranking I was referring to not the number but that also may equate into it. The competition as you put it, is with yourself. To see if you can love the Lord with all of your heart. If you do, you maximize the return on the talents given by the Lord. This is God's desire for us. I've read the posts about competition but I don't quite see it that way. The original poster retracted that as the number one motivation but stated it was a consideration.

Do all you do for the Lord and his Glory...that is if I was perfect...and I'm not...but I continue to strive to be.

[smyrna]

:clap: :clap: BRAVO!!!! :clap: :clap:

Koushi...how could you?

[smyrna]

Go ahead. I'll give you my place. In a place of only happiness, what would I care?


Under the system, you just went up a notch...to be first you must be last.

[smyrna]

Because there is no incentive to be better than anyone else, or to be the best you can be yourself.

You do it because you love the Lord more than everyone and everything else, including yourself(theoretically of course).

[RayMan]

Under the system, you just went up a notch...to be first you must be last.

And vice versa.

How you doin' smryna?

[smyrna]

And vice versa.

How you doin' smryna?

From a business point of view...
Trying to stimulate the economy by selling more cars. Another month coming to a close and it's going to be close again.

Personally...lovin it.

[RayMan]

From a business point of view...
Trying to stimulate the economy by selling more cars. Another month coming to a close and it's going to be close again.

Personally...lovin it.

Good.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Koushi...how could you?

Easily. :D

[Koushi Shinigami]

Under the system, you just went up a notch...to be first you must be last.



:angel:

[Jacob_Rising]

Help me understand, what was Jesus talking about during the sermon on the mount?
Did he make it sound possible to always follow the commandments, in your opinion?

What does it mean when scripture says "All have fallen short"?
All have fallen short let's us rejoice in keeping the commandments, and the Holy Spirit is given as a helper in keepinbg them.

The Sermon on the mount means what it has always meant, and nothing is changed.

It begins quoting the Psalms so it's no new thing.

He states specifically at this sermon that the law is now even harder to keep but those that keep it will be rewarded more than others because he calls them the greatest who keep the laws at this time.

Mathew chapter 5 through 7 gives you examples of the law and then it gives you the real spiritual meaning of the law showing it harder to keep.

Enter through the narrow gate because broad is the way of most.

Those that are not let into the narrow door are in heaven but not allowed past the door of Marriage.

'' I never knew you: depart from me, You who practice lawlessness.''

He makes this statement after addressing the law for two chapters and shows you that the greatest in the kingdom will be those who keep the law and teach others to keep the law at the sermon on the mount.

'' Whoever therefore breaks the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven.''

The difference is being able to walk through that marriage door or being turned away to the outer darkness of the outer court of the temple.

That door is in the Holy place.

[Jacob_Rising]

How do I know if I'm one of God's Elect?
If I'm not one of God's Elect, how do I become one?God has an annual plan that he still abides by every year, Besides the other cycles.

When the Holy days are appoaching you should know that God is going into judgement against you personally every year.

Every year a certain date is set aside to judge how you have behaved during the past year and it's decided every year whether you should even continue to live on Earth:Hebrews 4: 16 '' Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.{ Notice the grace helps} We are looking for mercy every year on this date.

This same process will be instituted in place in public when it happens for real, and then you are judged whether you will reign with the Messiah or not.

The Law is set in place to show mercy, compassion, forgiveness, and humbleness.

Anyone who studies the law would know this, and the laws are rightous.

Just because we have a sacrifice for sins does not mean we must not be rightous and rightousness comes by fulfilling the law.

You can take a guy who believes in Jesus but does nothing but lie, cheat and steal.

You can take a person who gives his life as a servant who has charity ,love, and kindness to all.

Which one is rightous?

There is a difference.

[Jacob_Rising]

Minas means that each person has an ability to fulfill the law.

One person maybe adapted to taking in the needy, some people are blessed being happy serving the elderly.

Everyone has an abiltity to show love and servitude to God in some way.

To dig down and hide a minas is to not do anything with your ability to help others and to help your community.

Find what your good at concernining love, charity, serving or whatever and do it. Do alot of it.

[Gem]

Maybe this will help.

Revelation 22: 12-13-14.

" And behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. "

" I am Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. "

blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

[Gem]

you do not have to be baptized to go to Heaven.Where is that said in the bible?You need to be born again.Salvation by Grace.



Matthew 3: 13-14-15.

Then Jesus came to Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.

And John tryed to prevent Him, saying, " I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me? "

But Jesus answered and said to him, " Permiit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. " Then he allowed Him.

[Jacob_Rising]

Matthew 3: 13-14-15.

Then Jesus came to Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.

And John tryed to prevent Him, saying, " I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me? "

But Jesus answered and said to him, " Permiit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. " Then he allowed Him.Mathew 3:11 I indeed babtize you with water unto repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightyer than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire.

Baptism was just a way to repent but it wasn't the act of baptism that saved, it was the repentance.

When Jesus came, he only showed what the water Baptism was pointing to.

It is still a good thing to be baptized if a person is sincere in repentance but a person can repent and be saved without baptism.

[cbut1]

bump

[Jacob_Rising]

Reigning with Christ

Zephaniah 3:14

“Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, He hath cast out thine enemy: the King of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.”

Introduction
A little research of the book of Zephaniah reveals a time period of 625-610 B.C. Zephaniah was the great, great grandson of king Hezekiah and therefore of royal blood. He ministered during the days of king Josiah, Judah's last godly ruler. It is probable that his ministry helped prepare for the great revival of 621 B.C., which occurred under Josiah's reign when the law of Moses was re-discovered during the repair of the temple (2 Chronicles 34 & 35). The book deals with God's judgments as well as His justice meted out to His people.

I. Judgment is Pronounced

A. Judgment Upon the Land of God

(1:2-4) The fact of God's judgment; God would take away everything in the land.

(1:5, 6) The reason for God's judgment; Judah had sinned by worshipping Baal (god of the Canaanites) and Milcom (an Ammonite god). By doing so, they ignored the worship of the One True God.

(1:7, 8,14,18 ; 2:2, 3) The name of the judgment; "The day of the Lord."

(1:14-18) The results of the judgment; it appears that Zephaniah had in mind the historical invasion of Babylon (605-586 B.C.). A study of the New Testament would also concur that it had to do with the yet future Great Tribulation (Revelation 6:12-17).

B. Judgment Upon the Enemies of God

(2:4-6) The judgment of God would fall upon the Philistine cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod & Ekron.

(2:8-10) Moab and Ammon were to be destroyed for mocking Judah and invading her land (Genesis 19).

(2:12) Ethiopia would be judged.

(2:13-15) Assyria and Nineveh would likewise be destroyed.

C. Judgment Upon the City of God

(1:10) The cry of alarm begins at the Fish Gate in Jerusalem and continues until it reaches the highest point.

(1:12,13) A revealing of God's plans to search out the land.

(3:1-7) The city's leaders were like roaring lions and ravenous wolves.

II. Good News Announced by the Prophet

A. Justice Upon the Enemies of God

(3:9,10) The nations given a common language and the privilege of approaching God with their offerings.

B. Justice Upon the Land of God

(3:13) The land of Israel will be at rest with no enemy to rise up against them.

C. Justice Upon the City of God

(3:14-20) Jerusalem will once again be filled with singing, for the theme of their song -- the King of kings and King of Israel -- will be on the throne. This reference is to the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ. During such time all nations will worship God, Israel will dwell in peace and Jerusalem will be filled with singing.

Conclusion Will you be one who is ruling and reigning with Christ? (Revelation 5:10). The first thing that is necessary to assure this reign with Christ is repentance of sin and faith (believing) in the Lord Jesus Christ. The second necessity is scriptural baptism, and the third necessity is a daily walk with Jesus Christ.

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?The Reign is not from Jerusalem, Neither is it in Shechem.

Do you not remember that I have told you this when I was with you?

That the coming of the Lord brings about the fire in which everything in Earth is burned up and the Elements will melt with fervent heat and there will be no Earth and no Ocean, but there will be a New Earth and a New Heaven, Therefore, what manner of man should you be, Seeing that the Earth is burned and everything in it at the coming of the Lord?

Neither on this Mountain or that Mountain will you worship, but in Truth and in Spirit.

[Reeder]

I guess I have heard those theories before.

eta: I am wondering why the Word of God would leave that mystery for us to figure out.
It seems the Word often leaves us wondering. Perhaps that is one way God allows us to grow.

[Koushi Shinigami]

bump

My question remains. Why bother?


The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?

Your OP fails to motivate me toward anything beyond salvation.

[Lie Sniper]

bump

How can we help you?

[Koushi Shinigami]

:)) :)) :))

[hben]

My question remains. Why bother?

Your OP fails to motivate me toward anything beyond salvation.

Do you drink goat's milk for breakfast?

[Finality]

Many believe that the thief was covered under the OT covenant largly in part to the fact that Christ had not yet shed His Blood for the sins of mankind. As well as He had not yet been raised in victory over death. Under the OT the sign of the covenant was circumcision.
(underline added)

Are you saying that Jesus had blood that was sacrificing blood and blood that was just ordinary, meaningless blood?

Τότε οὖν ἔλαβεν ὁ Πιλᾶτος τὸν Ἰησοῦν καὶ ἐμαστίγωσεν.
That last word, emastigosen, means to scourge. Scourging was a bloody and wounding corporal punishment. When Pilate had Jesus scourged, surely there was blood.

Or how about when the στέφανον ἐξ ἀκανθῶν—or crown of thorns—was placed on his head? Surely there was blood.

And if he was nailed to the cross, rather than tied, there might have been blood there, correct?

Was 'payment' not made until his moment of death? Or the moment of his 'resurrection'? If so, then I won't dispute it; but surely he bled before his contact with his cross-mate the thief.

[Semi-Sweet]

(underline added)

Are you saying that Jesus had blood that was sacrificing blood and blood that was just ordinary, meaningless blood?

Τότε οὖν ἔλαβεν ὁ Πιλᾶτος τὸν Ἰησοῦν καὶ ἐμαστίγωσεν.
That last word, emastigosen, means to scourge. Scourging was a bloody and wounding corporal punishment. When Pilate had Jesus scourged, surely there was blood.

Or how about when the στέφανον ἐξ ἀκανθῶν—or crown of thorns—was placed on his head? Surely there was blood.

And if he was nailed to the cross, rather than tied, there might have been blood there, correct?

Was 'payment' not made until his moment of death? Or the moment of his 'resurrection'? If so, then I won't dispute it; but surely he bled before his contact with his cross-mate the thief.

Jesus had the thief covered, no worries. Paul tells us in Romans 3:25. . "whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed."

This is particularly significant in that Paul is saying that Christ is the propitiation (sacrifice) for the sins of those who lived before as well as those in Paul's own day. . . .and of all future sins. It is an awesome truth, and elevates the meaning of the Cross. Every sin in all human history. . .past, present, future. . .must look to the Cross for expiation.

[cbut1]

(underline added)

Are you saying that Jesus had blood that was sacrificing blood and blood that was just ordinary, meaningless blood?

Τότε οὖν ἔλαβεν ὁ Πιλᾶτος τὸν Ἰησοῦν καὶ ἐμαστίγωσεν.
That last word, emastigosen, means to scourge. Scourging was a bloody and wounding corporal punishment. When Pilate had Jesus scourged, surely there was blood.

Or how about when the στέφανον ἐξ ἀκανθῶν—or crown of thorns—was placed on his head? Surely there was blood.

And if he was nailed to the cross, rather than tied, there might have been blood there, correct?

Was 'payment' not made until his moment of death? Or the moment of his 'resurrection'? If so, then I won't dispute it; but surely he bled before his contact with his cross-mate the thief.

No need to turn it into something it wasn't.

Christs shed blood is usually identified by the point of the Spear that peirced His side which confirmed His death. When His side was flayed open by that spear what came forth was the Blood and the Water. When one speaks of His shed blood they are usually in reference to that point.

Joh 19:32 The soldiers therefore came, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other that was crucified with him:

Joh 19:33 but when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Joh 19:34 howbeit one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and straightway there came out blood and water.

[Koushi Shinigami]

Do you drink goat's milk for breakfast?

:eh: a rather odd question. For drinking goat's milk will no more turn me into a goat than your consumption of cow's milk will turn you into a bovine.

I do have a taste for feta cheese though. :drool: And there was this one time that a group of friends and I butchered a goat, put it on a spit over an open fire, danced around it half naked while wearing a loin cloth and chanting native American songs. We also had a tomahawk throwing contest and a black powder shoot. Fun times.

[Finality]

No need to turn it into something it wasn't.

Christs shed blood is usually identified by the point of the Spear that peirced His side which confirmed His death. When His side was flayed open by that spear what came forth was the Blood and the Water. When one speaks of His shed blood they are usually in reference to that point.

Joh 19:32 The soldiers therefore came, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other that was crucified with him:

Joh 19:33 but when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Joh 19:34 howbeit one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and straightway there came out blood and water.
But he was surely already bleeding 30 verses before that. Why is the sanctifying blood not until he's stabbed with a spear? Why would that blood be any different?

[cbut1]

But he was surely already bleeding 30 verses before that. Why is the sanctifying blood not until he's stabbed with a spear? Why would that blood be any different?


Consider it in this light.

Was it the bleeding but alive sacrificial Lamb that delivered Israel? Or was it the complete sacrificial Lamb that delivered Israel?

Heb 9:11 But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation,

Heb 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling them that have been defiled, sanctify unto the cleanness of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of a new covenant, that a death having taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, they that have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him that made it.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force where there hath been death: for it doth never avail while he that made it liveth.

Heb 9:18 Wherefore even the first covenant hath not been dedicated without blood.

[Hallelujah Sunrise]

Reigning with Christ

The absence of salvation will prevent one from entering the kingdom of heaven. Without baptism and a faithful walk with Christ, a saved person will go to heaven but will not be able to rule and reign with Him from Jerusalem during the 1,000 years. Baptism and faithfulness to Christ is acheived through identifying with a New Testament church which is aggressive in evangelism and in maintaining the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Where do you stand?

The only thing necessary to reign with Christ a 1,000 years is for one to take part in the first resurrection. The thief on the cross believed in Christ and therefore he was saved and took part in the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years ~ Revelation 20:6.

[Jacob_Rising]

The only thing necessary to reign with Christ a 1,000 years is for one to take part in the first resurrection. The thief on the cross believed in Christ and therefore he was saved and took part in the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years ~ Revelation 20:6.No that is not the first Resurrection.

1st Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam we all die, Even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But Each one in his own order: Christ the Firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at his coming.

Revelation 14:4 These{The 144,000} were redeemed from among men, Being Firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

[Hallelujah Sunrise]

The first resurrection takes part in different stages: Christ the firstfruits and then afterward (in the future) those who are Christ's at His coming.