Convert me!

[Andrew_980]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

[AlejandroGauna]

God Bless You since you are trying to search the truth, hint hint read the bible.

[Thank you Troops]

If your heart is not right you can't be converted for Jesus. If you want to logically pick apart religions your heart is not ready. My faith is that only God can convert you, I can't. When you are broken and no where else to turn, when you realize that you need someone greater than you, when you realize you are a sinner and need salvation then you can be converted.

However I will take my best shot. enjoy the link below. And please don't come back and say only Americans meet Jesus when they die, you will need to do more research if you think that. :D

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research22.html

[Koushi Shinigami]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

Neh.


My faith is right for me.

You'll have to search out what is right for you.

[Ol'Army]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

What part of faith do you not understand? By definition, it is not provable and your insistence on an explanantion not involving "quotes from a book" speaks volumes about your state of receptiveness.

Many of us will be praying for you. Why don't you meditiate on it?

[Koushi Shinigami]

your insistence on an explanantion not involving "quotes from a book" speaks volumes about your state of receptiveness.



IDK. Can you speak extemporaneously about your faith, straight from your own heart and in your own words?

I believe that is what he's asking for. Because to be honest, I don't often read cherry picked snippets of scripture posted here, myself. What the poster has to say in their own words is of more interest to me.

[Andrew_980]

IDK. Can you speak extemporaneously about your faith, straight from your own heart and in your own words?

I believe that is what he's asking for. Because to be honest, I don't often read cherry picked snippets of scripture posted here, myself. What the poster has to say in their own words is of more interest to me.

Exactly, i want an explanation from a person instead of verses from any book. Plenty of differences in the christian sects that have the same bible for instance.

[Meriweather]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

The reason the Catholic faith is right for me is that it tossed me in the arms of God (so-to-speak). It was through the Catholic faith I learned there is a God, and helped direct me in developing a relationship with Him and a worship of Him. The Catholic community also provided a place--and leadership--in following the command that we love and provide for our neighbor. We pray, we teach, we provide work and food for food kitchens, we provide shelter, maternity care, clothing.

The Catholic Church has a rich history of its interactions with God and with the world--some successful and inspirational; some disastrous and sinful. But through it all we have worked hard to remain on track with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Each saint that we canonize have his oro her own inspirational story. It is through these stories of the history of the Church as a whole, and its members, that I learn ever more about God, and grow in my understanding, and therefore my love, of Him.

It is in working with fellow Catholics that I grow in love and appreciation of my neighbor--and how much we are able to do for each other if we put forth a little effort.

[Andrew_980]

The reason the Catholic faith is right for me is that it tossed me in the arms of God (so-to-speak). It was through the Catholic faith I learned there is a God, and helped direct me in developing a relationship with Him and a worship of Him. The Catholic community also provided a place--and leadership--in following the command that we love and provide for our neighbor. We pray, we teach, we provide work and food for food kitchens, we provide shelter, maternity care, clothing.

The Catholic Church has a rich history of its interactions with God and with the world--some successful and inspirational; some disastrous and sinful. But through it all we have worked hard to remain on track with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Each saint that we canonize have his oro her own inspirational story. It is through these stories of the history of the Church as a whole, and its members, that I learn ever more about God, and grow in my understanding, and therefore my love, of Him.

It is in working with fellow Catholics that I grow in love and appreciation of my neighbor--and how much we are able to do for each other if we put forth a little effort.
Thank you for sharing that.

[CID_0687]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.
I'm not gonna say that the Pentecostal faith is the Correct faith, but I will say it is so for me. Through the Pentecostal faith I have learned who God is, I have learned who Jesus is, and I have learned of the power that is given to us through the Holy Spirit. To me, this power has no boundaries, the power of conviction, consoling, edification, teaching. Before becoming a Pentecostal I was an Agnostic, former Episcopalian, that just didn't have any hope. I felt that organized religion was to ritualistic, and full of legalism...I was so burnt out on the "Thou shalt nots" and was under the impression that this was all God was about. Upon receiving Christ as my personal Savior, and learning in a Pentecostal setting, and studying the word of God for myself, I came to realize that there was so much more to God than "Thou shalt not". I learned that He is a loving God, and His message is one of love, not one of a dictator ruling with an iron fist.

I've ministered and visited many churches, of many denominations, but I know the Pentecostal church is where I'm suppose to be. It's nothing against the other denominations, they are all serving God, it's just not the place where I fit. We all have our place in this world, we all have our different beliefs, that doesn't make anyone wrong, it just makes us human. And I believe that is why there are so many different Christian denominations, because we all need that place where we can fit in.

[Teen_Conservative]

As a previous agnostic, I've searched and researched alot of religions dufring my spiritual journey, but the one religion I thought was different than any other sect was Christianity. Not Mormanism, not Islam, not Buddhism, but Christianity. You might ask why? Its the only religion that has one simple step for salvation. Accept Christ Jesus that he died on the cross for your sins, and rose on the third day. One thing that converted me was all the historical evidence and archeology that has been conducted throught the Bible, and Christianity. The very FIRST church was the chruch in Corinth known as Corinthians that the apostle Paul started. This was a church made up of Jews and Gentiles. It was NOT the Roman Catholic church thought. The Church was made up of Christ followers and such. As I've conducted research, I noticed how Christianity is the only Faith that does not require good works to recieve salvation, nor baptism. Its all about the relationship with Jesus, nothing else. With Faith comes works, but works are not needed for salvation. Also, Mormonism was my second choice, but I've conducted much research and even read some of the Book of Mormon, but here is my conclusion. Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon was given by God, but why would God give another "book" that contradicts the Bible multiple times? God does not contradice himself at all. If you have any questions regarding Christianity and what it has to offer, please email me at bduffy4j@gmail.com

[ROBERTENEAL]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

For all you know, I may be a hypocrite who posts one thing in the Hannity forum and then does the exact opposite in real life.

Why should you believe me?

There is an outside chance that I have posted something in the past two years that has helped someone come to a better understanding of the things they already believe in. Others who post in this forum have helped me to come to a better understanding of a few things.

I certainly don't expect people I have never met to be totally "converted" because of something I have posted in a forum.

[Tim]

Oh my! If I had an eleven foot pole I might venture a stab but having only a ten foot pole I'm not going anywhere near Teen's post.:shifty:

[Teen_Conservative]

Oh my! If I had an eleven foot pole I might venture a stab but having only a ten foot pole I'm not going anywhere near Teen's post.:shifty:
..........:rolleyes:

[Ron Jon]

Teen_Conservative, you might want to edit your post. While many of us agree with you, I don't think that type of rhetoric will pass muster here in the Religion forum and I would hate to see you reported to the Mods for violating the rules of respect here.

[CID_0687]

Teen may also want to delete his email addie...the mods normally discourage that on the public forum.

[Tim]

..........:rolleyes:

Just trying to help ya, dude. ;) I wouldn't want you to get a "time out" ...or worse.:shifty:

[Marleysdaddy]

The very FIRST church was the chruch in Corinth known as Corinthians that the apostle Paul started.
That may have been the first Christian church, but I seriously doubt it was the FIRST church ever.

As I've conducted research, I noticed how Christianity is the only Faith that does not require good works to recieve [sic] salvation, nor baptism.
There is the same discussion of faith vs. works within Islam, and I am sure there are some Muslims who believe that works are not required for salvation.

[pictor]

That may have been the first Christian church, but I seriously doubt it was the FIRST church ever.
What's in a name? There were certainly places of worship. Is church an inherently christian word, as opposed to temples, mosques, ..... stone circle, whatever.

[hillplus]

As a previous agnostic, I've searched and researched alot of religions dufring my spiritual journey, but the one religion I thought was different than any other sect was Christianity. Not Mormanism, not Islam, not Buddhism, but Christianity. You might ask why? Its the only religion that has one simple step for salvation. Accept Christ Jesus that he died on the cross for your sins, and rose on the third day. One thing that converted me was all the historical evidence and archeology that has been conducted throught the Bible, and Christianity. The very FIRST church was the chruch in Corinth known as Corinthians that the apostle Paul started. This was a church made up of Jews and Gentiles. It was NOT the Roman Catholic church thought. The Church was made up of Christ followers and such. As I've conducted research, I noticed how Christianity is the only Faith that does not require good works to recieve salvation, nor baptism. Its all about the relationship with Jesus, nothing else. With Faith comes works, but works are not needed for salvation. Also, Mormonism was my second choice, but I've conducted much research and even read some of the Book of Mormon, but here is my conclusion. Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon was given by God, but why would God give another "book" that contradicts the Bible multiple times? God does not contradice himself at all. If you have any questions regarding Christianity and what it has to offer, please email me at bduffy4j@gmail.com


Thanks for throwing rocks at the tree. It proves that the fruit is ripe and it is good.;)



Andrew, if you really want to know (I question that) You'll leave no stone unturned.

[Andrew_980]

For all you know, I may be a hypocrite who posts one thing in the Hannity forum and then does the exact opposite in real life.

Why should you believe me?

There is an outside chance that I have posted something in the past two years that has helped someone come to a better understanding of the things they already believe in. Others who post in this forum have helped me to come to a better understanding of a few things.

I certainly don't expect people I have never met to be totally "converted" because of something I have posted in a forum.

I am simply asking people to explain why someone would choose their religion, a simple summary of it. i assume that this is like any other net interaction, that they may lie, but take it at face value untill given cause not to.

[Koushi Shinigami]

The very FIRST church was the chruch in Corinth known as Corinthians that the apostle Paul started.


Did they all drive to church in Chrysler Cordobas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o

Youtube. TV Cordoba Ad, 59 seconds.

[Marleysdaddy]

What's in a name? There were certainly places of worship. Is church an inherently christian word, as opposed to temples, mosques, ..... stone circle, whatever.

It does not appear that 'church' is inherently a Christian word

O.E. cirice "church," from W.Gmc. *kirika, from Gk. kyriake (oikia) "Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord." For vowel evolution, see bury. Gk. kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" was used of houses of Christian worship since c.300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilike. An example of the direct Gk.-to-Gmc. progress of many Christian words, via the Goths; it was probably used by W.Gmc. people in their pre-Christian period. Also picked up by Slavic, via Gmc. (cf. O.Slav. criky, Rus. cerkov). Romance and Celtic languages use variants of L. ecclesia. Slang church key for "can or bottle opener" is from 1950s. Church-mouse, proverbial in many languages for its poverty, is 1731 in Eng.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=church

but I'll check my OED tonight...

I was going more with the 'place of worship' idea...

[GWFan]

actually, I don't believe in "religion"

I believe in living my life in a way that benefits my soul and that way happens to be through the teachings of christ.

I'm not going to sit here on a soapbox and tell you which religions are right or wrong. I believe the relationship between you, your soul and god are just that.

that's the beauty of free will.

[captusa]

As a previous agnostic, I've searched and researched alot of religions dufring my spiritual journey, but the one religion I thought was different than any other sect was Christianity. Not Mormanism, not Islam, not Buddhism, but Christianity. You might ask why? Its the only religion that has one simple step for salvation. Accept Christ Jesus that he died on the cross for your sins, and rose on the third day. One thing that converted me was all the historical evidence and archeology that has been conducted throught the Bible, and Christianity. The very FIRST church was the chruch in Corinth known as Corinthians that the apostle Paul started. This was a church made up of Jews and Gentiles. It was NOT the Roman Catholic church thought. The Church was made up of Christ followers and such. As I've conducted research, I noticed how Christianity is the only Faith that does not require good works to recieve salvation, nor baptism. Its all about the relationship with Jesus, nothing else. With Faith comes works, but works are not needed for salvation. Also, Mormonism was my second choice, but I've conducted much research and even read some of the Book of Mormon, but here is my conclusion. Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon was given by God, but why would God give another "book" that contradicts the Bible multiple times? God does not contradice himself at all. If you have any questions regarding Christianity and what it has to offer, please email me at bduffy4j@gmail.com

Why would God create a New Testament that redefined moral conduct described in the Old Teatament ?

[Marleysdaddy]

Why would God create a New Testament that redefined moral conduct described in the Old Teatament ?

mulligan? :razz:

[GWFan]

mulligan? :razz:
LOL! this was a good one.

[Koushi Shinigami]

mulligan? :razz:

:)) :))

[Tim]

mulligan? :razz:
:dance::)):)):)) Brilliant!

[RayMan]

Fore!

[Marleysdaddy]

Preemptive (and hopefully unnecessary) clarification - my mulligan comment was in no way intended to disrespect the teachings in the Tanakh.

[Koushi Shinigami]

:dance::)):)):)) Brilliant!

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo240/koushishinigami/brilliant-1.jpg

[ROBERTENEAL]

I am simply asking people to explain why someone would choose their religion, a simple summary of it. i assume that this is like any other net interaction, that they may lie, but take it at face value untill given cause not to.

On an objective level, I believe that history is going in the direction that Jesus and the prophets and the apostles said it would go. On a subjective level, I can say that there are intangible things that I get out of congregating with other Christians that I can't get anywhere else.

But what have I proven by saying that? There are people I disagree with on a lot of topics who can offer the same explanation.

I am sure that you do not have time to read the 4000+ posts that I have submitted to this forum, but if you were to do so you would read discussions I have had with LDS, Jehovahs Witnesses, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics,Universalists, etc., you would be able to compare my beliefs to theirs, you would learn about things I have experienced by attending Pentecostal churches, Baptist churches, and undenominational meetings, you would learn a little bit about my experiences as a kid, as a student, as an Air Force dude, as a surveyor, as a road/bridge construction inspector, as a husband, as a father, as a maintenance technician, as a political activist, as a history buff, etc.

You would learn about some of the friends and neighbors and acquaintances I have been in contact with over the years. You would learn about some of my travels.

I have come to believe the things I believe in by acquiring a lot of bits of pieces of information over a time span of almost 60 years.

Nobody is a quick study, not unless they have lived a very sheltered life.

I would not ask someone who has studied to become a psychiatrist for several years to give me a one paragraph reason why they favor one theory of psychology over another. I would not ask someone who has spent a number of years studying the different theories in the science of origins (like evolution) to offer me a quick, off the cuff explanation for favoring their favorite theory.

Yes, people do receive epiphanies, or revelations, or whatever you want to call it. I also believe that there is a starting point for Christians, you can call it conversion, being born again, being regenerated, born of the spirit, etc. I believe that Jesus Christ has all of the unique qualifications that the Bible says He has, and that He has done everything the Bible says He has done, and that He will do everything the Bible says He will do. But how can I be expected to "prove" any of this with a one or two paragraph statement?

And even if I were to offer such proof, why should I expect you to think that my "proof" is any better than the next guy's "proof"?

I can't offer quick explanations that do justice to the Christian faith, and to life in general. Maybe somebody else can, but I can't.

[Mikko]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.
It acknowledges the validity of all faiths.:)

[gpd®]

Why would God create a New Testament that redefined moral conduct described in the Old Teatament ?

You have evidently left "dispensationalism" out of your broad studies of the Christian Faith.

But most people do.

[Teen_Conservative]

That may have been the first Christian church, but I seriously doubt it was the FIRST church ever.


There is the same discussion of faith vs. works within Islam, and I am sure there are some Muslims who believe that works are not required for salvation.

Actually,
All Muslim sects believe works is required, and you have to pray a certain amount of times during a day.

[Mimiheart]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.Do the right thing... don't harm others' life or property, don't be cruel to animals.

I don't know, I think my beliefs fall under "common sense" but for some people that doesn't seem so common.

[Mikko]

As a previous agnostic, I've searched and researched alot of religions dufring my spiritual journey, but the one religion I thought was different than any other sect was Christianity.
Actuality, its similarities to other religions are at least as numerous as its differences.
Not Mormanism, not Islam, not Buddhism, but Christianity.
:neutral:
You might ask why? Its the only religion that has one simple step for salvation.
And this makes it true?
Accept Christ Jesus that he died on the cross for your sins, and rose on the third day. One thing that converted me was all the historical evidence and archeology that has been conducted throught the Bible, and Christianity.
This "evidence" shows that many of the settings and personages alluded to in the Bible existed; it does not prove that the faith claims of Christianity are true.
The very FIRST church was the chruch in Corinth known as Corinthians that the apostle Paul started.
Oh, so what about the pre-Pauline Christians of Jerusalem, the actual followers of Yeshua Ben Yusef? They weren't a church? What were they?
This was a church made up of Jews and Gentiles.
As I have already pointed out, the first church was made up of Jews only.
It was NOT the Roman Catholic church thought.
Careful!!!!!
The Church was made up of Christ followers and such.
"and such?" What is the "such?"
As I've conducted research, I noticed how Christianity is the only Faith that does not require good works to recieve salvation, nor baptism.
1. Not all Christians would agree with you about that.
2. Even if they did, in what way does this characteristic make Christianity any truer than faiths that hold that human works play a part in "salvation?"
Its all about the relationship with Jesus, nothing else. With Faith comes works, but works are not needed for salvation.
Again, so what?
Also, Mormonism was my second choice, but I've conducted much research and even read some of the Book of Mormon, but here is my conclusion.
Here it comes.:rolleyes:
Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon was given by God, but why would God give another "book" that contradicts the Bible multiple times?
The same question could be asked about the New Testament.
God does not contradice himself at all.
True, but there are countless contradictory anthropogenic doctrines about God.
If you have any questions regarding Christianity and what it has to offer, please email me at bduffy4j@gmail.com
I'll pass, but I've got one word for you: humility.:)

[Marleysdaddy]

It acknowledges the validity of all faiths.:)

good answer

[Marleysdaddy]

Actually,
All Muslim sects believe works is required, and you have to pray a certain amount of times during a day.

If that were true, that doesn't mean that there aren't Muslims who think faith alone is sufficient

[curtis123]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

Dont look at me. The whole Idea behind faith is that you need to convert yourself.

Some find it in the Bible. There are some here that have memorized it, along with quotations from every religious manscript they can get their hands on.

Truth is, if you put down the books and read your own soul, you'll find him. God has written volumes in it.

[meggers49]

Exactly, i want an explanation from a person instead of verses from any book. Plenty of differences in the christian sects that have the same bible for instance.

Being Catholic ..i feel a unity with so many people. I can go anywhere in the world and know that there are people who hold the same beliefs i have... but.......that isn't what makes me ......man....this is so hard to explain.

Andrew, I wish you could feel what's in my heart right now. When I am at church........I look at Christ on the Cross and see what he did for me. I am humbled and awed and sad and grateful all at the same time. I feel like Christ is wrapping his arms around me. Then I go to communion and feel just overwehlmed by the love and greatness of God. I don't know how to explain it exactly but it's like mentally and emotionally I am on my knees with my arms raised and God is reaching down to me and wrapping me in his arms.

all i want to do is be on my knees and bow down to God for his magnificence and mercy.

it is overwhelming.






andrew....i hope you're searching.... and i hope if you're searching, you find what you are looking for. May God bless your search and open your heart to truth.

[dust]

REGENERATION:

John 15:21
“….even so the Son quickenth whom he will”.
Quickening can also be described as and is know as, the new birth, born again, regeneration, illumination. The new birth is a “one time” act of God upon a rebellious sinner who is said to be “dead in trespasses and sin”, and at enmity against God.
The quickening act of God does not occur because someone wants it, nor does it occur because someone wants to confer it upon another person. Neither is it passed from parent to offspring.
St. John 2:13 “….which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God”.
The new birth is said to be a “mediate” act of God which is not dependent upon any means or men, but solely due to the choice and sovereign act of God.
Most individuals are not concerned about the new birth / regeneration / quickening. St. Jn.3:7 “…Ye must be born again”.
Most are occupied with finding a religion that “suits” them.

CONVERSION:
Conversion is the act of a born again person who has been granted spiritual life from above and therefore capacitated to see, hear and comprehend spiritual truth. Conversion can happen many time in one’s life since it is a continual learning and turning process. Regeneration happens only once. Where there has been no regeneration there can be no conversion. Failure to distinguish between Regeneration and Conversion has resulted in many man made religions.

[Gem]

Oh my! If I had an eleven foot pole I might venture a stab but having only a ten foot pole I'm not going anywhere near Teen's post.:shifty:

Lol. you better be careful about useing that sentance,
I used it in another thread something like this one and a few of the people on here really chewed me out for useing this same statement.

Just a friendly warrning. ;)

[smyrna]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

I am glad that you asked Andrew_980. It is a feeling, a confidence, a consciousness that continuously guides and comforts as I am going through life. I can look around me and see all of the pain and know that I am on the right path. Not that I don't have my share of trials but I can deal with them...at least so far because of my relationship with Christ.

I read a response that you made to a person who had a very turbulent childhood and I was very moved. Your compassion and sensitivity was above and beyond. You had an insight that was wise and I could tell came from experience. I prayed right then to our Father that you would be saved. You are being called Andrew_980.

[Ron Jon]

Lol. you better be careful about useing that sentance,
I used it in another thread something like this one and a few of the people on here really chewed me out for useing this same statement.

Just a friendly warrning. ;)You mean the post where you told bayoubill that you wouldn't "touch that with a 10 foot poll (http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=46936231&postcount=6)" (in reference to his OP)?

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=46936231#post46936231

[CID_0687]

You mean the post where you told bayoubill that you wouldn't "touch that with a 10 foot poll (http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=46936231&postcount=6)" (in reference to his OP)?

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=46936231#post46936231
The circumstances surrounding the two posts are quite different.

[RayMan]

Hey Andrew. Not interested in converting you. Just wanted to drop by and say hi.

[Andrew_980]

Hey Andrew. Not interested in converting you. Just wanted to drop by and say hi.

well hello then

[terri910]

Hey Andrew. Not interested in converting you. Just wanted to drop by and say hi.
That's weird.

I just stopped in and was going to ask Andrew how the converting was going! *LOL*

I guess I could've read the thread, but, just not inclined, for some reason (it's feisty Friday)!

[RayMan]

Civility has been breaking out all over the RF today.

[Phredderikk]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.


If you are swayed, or maybe even converted, by a rational line of argument, then I believe you will have missed the main point of religion - spirituality. The problem with the biblical faiths is that they are based on ethics and behavior, and have little actual spirituality. (that is apart from some monastic groups) Gods such as Yahweh (Jehovah) or Allah are a minority in the history of religion and myth. They are 'Tribal' Gods who are claimed by one certain group of people. Those people establish laws, rituals, and doctrines according to their particular deity, and then build their society around it. The history that is evident especially in Christianity and Islam shows the truth of this. It is why there is persecution of 'heretics'... it is why there are wars over religion. It is why the Middle East is in constant chaos. It is the reason for terrorism. It is also the reason that I personally gave up many friends, destroyed over $1500 in CD's, and forced myself to live a stressful and narrow life for 10 years.

I have over the last year begun, and come close to a complete exodus from Christianity. There is no ground for ANY particular sect to stand upon to show that they are correct while others are wrong on any point of doctrine. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant... none can show that they are the true sect... besides that, I had already dismissed Islam and Judaism before leaving the fold of the Church... how was it that I could be so sure that they were wrong when I could not prove that my Baptist church was right?

It is utterly futile and ridiculous, isn't it??

So what do I believe now? Not sure, but the non-dogmatic practices of Buddhism are attractive... I believe in personal religion, not a personal 'god'.

[smyrna]

well hello then


You see...you heard Rayman. Now listen to your heart.

[Thank you Troops]

I am very impressed with the way this thread has turned out. A lot of times when somone askes a sincere question it is a cover for argument but I didn't find that here. Accolades to Andrew.

[RayMan]

Andrew is an up-front kind of guy.

[Thank you Troops]

Andrew is an up-front kind of guy.


Let's give him a gold star.

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u329/TYT_TYT/gold20star.jpg

[CID_0687]

Andrew is an up-front kind of guy.
Yes yes I am :D

[lucky]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

Just a quick perk but what kind of backing are you desiring for the quotes from a book?

[Tucson Jim]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

You and I have never gotten along very well, but in this thread you ask a very good question, one I hadn't really thought about that much until right now.

So here goes . . . bottom line . . .I believe my religion is the correct religion because when I had reached the most desperate point in my life, the time when I was ready to put my 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger (sorry for that image, but true), the absolute rock bottom, God absolutely, unequivocally, led me to the faith I now hold.

The proof for me was that He simultaneously led my wife to the same faith totally independently from me!

I attended college and graduate school in a scientific discipline and was totally hostile to religion in all its various forms from the ages of 18-31. I believed in science and thought all religions were mere superstition for all of my life as a young adult.

But at the same time, I was miserable in my personal life. This misery expressed itself in alchoholism, violence, self-centeredness and various and sundry acts I would rather not discuss in a public forum.

One night, after a particularly depraved and demeaning series of events, I was close to suicide. I had the means, I had the plan, I had the example (my stepmother committed suicide with a gun). For some reason, I finally dropped my pride and humbly prayed to God for forgiveness for all I had done and asked Him to either just kill me or use my life for His purposes. I had been witnessed to numerous times by Christians and I asked Jesus to be my Savior and Lord. I asked for His direction in my life.

Meanwhile, unknown to me, my wife, also an unbeliever, though not hostile to religion as I was, had been talking to a Christian at work and read the book he gave her: 'More than a Carpenter" about Jesus. As a result, this Christian evangelist also led her to accept Jesus as her Savior and Lord.

Two weeks after I had surrendered to the Lord without telling my wife, she told me, trembling and with tears in her eyes, that she had accepted Jesus as her Savior. Knowing my hostility to religion, she told me she didn't care what I thought, that she had given her heart to the Lord.

I told her, "I know . . . me too." You could have knocked us both over with a feather!

We found a Community Church nearby and the rest is history.

We have been Christians for 28 years now and have been married for 39 years.

I thank God, most humbly, and with all the love I have in my heart, for all He has done for me, the one who hated Him, the one who mocked Him and all those who believed in Him.

Amazing Grace!

[cmorlan]

I can explain what I beleive but only Jesus and the holy spirit can change your heart.

[Andrew_980]

Let's give him a gold star.

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u329/TYT_TYT/gold20star.jpg

you two had me ready to blush before cid startd in

[Andrew_980]

Just a quick perk but what kind of backing are you desiring for the quotes from a book?

An explanation for how it pertains to all, why it is true or what it really means to move another to accept it as fact.

[Andrew_980]

You and I have never gotten along very well, but in this thread you ask a very good question, one I hadn't really thought about that much until right now.

So here goes . . . bottom line . . .I believe my religion is the correct religion because when I had reached the most desperate point in my life, the time when I was ready to put my 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger (sorry for that image, but true), the absolute rock bottom, God absolutely, unequivocally, led me to the faith I now hold.

The proof for me was that He simultaneously led my wife to the same faith totally independently from me!

I attended college and graduate school in a scientific discipline and was totally hostile to religion in all its various forms from the ages of 18-31. I believed in science and thought all religions were mere superstition for all of my life as a young adult.

But at the same time, I was miserable in my personal life. This misery expressed itself in alchoholism, violence, self-centeredness and various and sundry acts I would rather not discuss in a public forum.

One night, after a particularly depraved and demeaning series of events, I was close to suicide. I had the means, I had the plan, I had the example (my stepmother committed suicide with a gun). For some reason, I finally dropped my pride and humbly prayed to God for forgiveness for all I had done and asked Him to either just kill me or use my life for His purposes. I had been witnessed to numerous times by Christians and I asked Jesus to be my Savior and Lord. I asked for His direction in my life.

Meanwhile, unknown to me, my wife, also an unbeliever, though not hostile to religion as I was, had been talking to a Christian at work and read the book he gave her: 'More than a Carpenter" about Jesus. As a result, this Christian evangelist also led her to accept Jesus as her Savior and Lord.

Two weeks after I had surrendered to the Lord without telling my wife, she told me, trembling and with tears in her eyes, that she had accepted Jesus as her Savior. Knowing my hostility to religion, she told me she didn't care what I thought, that she had given her heart to the Lord.

I told her, "I know . . . me too." You could have knocked us both over with a feather!

We found a Community Church nearby and the rest is history.

We have been Christians for 28 years now and have been married for 39 years.

I thank God, most humbly, and with all the love I have in my heart, for all He has done for me, the one who hated Him, the one who mocked Him and all those who believed in Him.

Amazing Grace!

That is great that it all worked out so well for you. No matter how often i find myself at odds with organized religion it is still touching to hear all of the stories of the great impact it can have on lives.

[Quantrill]

To Andrew_980 (reply #1)

Pleased to meet you. The Christian faith is the only true and right faith because it is the only one that is of the One true and living God. You asked.

You don't want Bible verses, fine. But the Christian believes what he does based upon the Scriputres being the Word of God.

Why should any consider it? They won't unless God reveals it to them.

Quantrill

[smyrna]

That is great that it all worked out so well for you. No matter how often i find myself at odds with organized religion it is still touching to hear all of the stories of the great impact it can have on lives.

Although I have loved the Lord from my youth, there was a time in my young adult life when I didn't associate with people of organized religion and I blamed it on their hypocrisy. Then the Lord laid on my heart that if what I was thinking was true...he needed me there all the more. That was 20 years ago and I have been in a church ever since. My point Andrew, is do not let your view of organized religion be your reason not to let the Lord Jesus into your life. What you do and the rest of the world does are two completely separate things. You obviously have a strong will, so the mindset that you don't appreciate doesn't have to be yours to accept the Lord.

[Thank you Troops]

You and I have never gotten along very well, but in this thread you ask a very good question, one I hadn't really thought about that much until right now.

So here goes . . . bottom line . . .I believe my religion is the correct religion because when I had reached the most desperate point in my life, the time when I was ready to put my 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger (sorry for that image, but true), the absolute rock bottom, God absolutely, unequivocally, led me to the faith I now hold.

The proof for me was that He simultaneously led my wife to the same faith totally independently from me!

I attended college and graduate school in a scientific discipline and was totally hostile to religion in all its various forms from the ages of 18-31. I believed in science and thought all religions were mere superstition for all of my life as a young adult.

But at the same time, I was miserable in my personal life. This misery expressed itself in alchoholism, violence, self-centeredness and various and sundry acts I would rather not discuss in a public forum.

One night, after a particularly depraved and demeaning series of events, I was close to suicide. I had the means, I had the plan, I had the example (my stepmother committed suicide with a gun). For some reason, I finally dropped my pride and humbly prayed to God for forgiveness for all I had done and asked Him to either just kill me or use my life for His purposes. I had been witnessed to numerous times by Christians and I asked Jesus to be my Savior and Lord. I asked for His direction in my life.

Meanwhile, unknown to me, my wife, also an unbeliever, though not hostile to religion as I was, had been talking to a Christian at work and read the book he gave her: 'More than a Carpenter" about Jesus. As a result, this Christian evangelist also led her to accept Jesus as her Savior and Lord.

Two weeks after I had surrendered to the Lord without telling my wife, she told me, trembling and with tears in her eyes, that she had accepted Jesus as her Savior. Knowing my hostility to religion, she told me she didn't care what I thought, that she had given her heart to the Lord.

I told her, "I know . . . me too." You could have knocked us both over with a feather!

We found a Community Church nearby and the rest is history.

We have been Christians for 28 years now and have been married for 39 years.

I thank God, most humbly, and with all the love I have in my heart, for all He has done for me, the one who hated Him, the one who mocked Him and all those who believed in Him.

Amazing Grace!


Thanks for sharing.

[CID_0687]

you two had me ready to blush before cid startd in
Sorry.

:hug:

[Lie Sniper]

You and I have never gotten along very well, but in this thread you ask a very good question, one I hadn't really thought about that much until right now.

So here goes . . . bottom line . . .I believe my religion is the correct religion because when I had reached the most desperate point in my life, the time when I was ready to put my 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger (sorry for that image, but true), the absolute rock bottom, God absolutely, unequivocally, led me to the faith I now hold.

The proof for me was that He simultaneously led my wife to the same faith totally independently from me!

I attended college and graduate school in a scientific discipline and was totally hostile to religion in all its various forms from the ages of 18-31. I believed in science and thought all religions were mere superstition for all of my life as a young adult.

But at the same time, I was miserable in my personal life. This misery expressed itself in alchoholism, violence, self-centeredness and various and sundry acts I would rather not discuss in a public forum.

One night, after a particularly depraved and demeaning series of events, I was close to suicide. I had the means, I had the plan, I had the example (my stepmother committed suicide with a gun). For some reason, I finally dropped my pride and humbly prayed to God for forgiveness for all I had done and asked Him to either just kill me or use my life for His purposes. I had been witnessed to numerous times by Christians and I asked Jesus to be my Savior and Lord. I asked for His direction in my life.

Meanwhile, unknown to me, my wife, also an unbeliever, though not hostile to religion as I was, had been talking to a Christian at work and read the book he gave her: 'More than a Carpenter" about Jesus. As a result, this Christian evangelist also led her to accept Jesus as her Savior and Lord.

Two weeks after I had surrendered to the Lord without telling my wife, she told me, trembling and with tears in her eyes, that she had accepted Jesus as her Savior. Knowing my hostility to religion, she told me she didn't care what I thought, that she had given her heart to the Lord.

I told her, "I know . . . me too." You could have knocked us both over with a feather!

We found a Community Church nearby and the rest is history.

We have been Christians for 28 years now and have been married for 39 years.

I thank God, most humbly, and with all the love I have in my heart, for all He has done for me, the one who hated Him, the one who mocked Him and all those who believed in Him.

Amazing Grace!

Thank you for this wonderful and moving testament!:clap:

[Predecessor]

At the end of the day, I am on the path I'm on because it feels right. I can't prove that it is right. I only feel that it is and so I continue down the road. Other paths I have taken have lead to unhappiness and frustration. So I journey down the road of my faith because there is peace. Trials and tribulations still abound, for no path is devoid of obstacles. But I feel that my faith provides me with the skills and tools to overcome and reach the destination of my desires.

So my best advice for you Andrew is, keep looking for your path. When you happen upon it, the only way you'll know if it's the right one for you is to walk it awhile.

[Lie Sniper]

At the end of the day, I am on the path I'm on because it feels right. I can't prove that it is right. I only feel that it is and so I continue down the road. Other paths I have taken have lead to unhappiness and frustration. So I journey down the road of my faith because there is peace. Trials and tribulations still abound, for no path is devoid of obstacles. But I feel that my faith provides me with the skills and tools to overcome and reach the destination of my desires.

So my best advice for you Andrew is, keep looking for your path. When you happen upon it, the only way you'll know if it's the right one for you is to walk it awhile.

Hello Pred!
Been awhile.
How are you?

[Predecessor]

Hello Pred!
Been awhile.
How are you?

I'm doing great - thanks for askin' Snipe!

Ready to tackle 2009. Are you ready for the next four years? Should be interesting :shifty:

[Ron Jon]

I'm doing great - thanks for askin' Snipe!

Ready to tackle 2009. Are you ready for the next four years? Should be interesting :shifty:Well, at least the next four years will give the talk radio show hosts a lot to talk about. :lol:

[terri910]

Well, at least the next four years will give the talk radio show hosts a lot to talk about. :lol:
If they are allowed to continue, anyway....

[Andrew_980]

Sorry.

:hug:

:hug:
Not a big hugger but i will hug back

[Lie Sniper]

I'm doing great - thanks for askin' Snipe!

Ready to tackle 2009. Are you ready for the next four years? Should be interesting :shifty:

Yes sir! It will be a nice change of pace anyway.
It might be fun to be an armchair quarterback and second guess every decision. Its a lot easier to be a critic!;)

[JSHCDA]

A an awesome testimony of God's transforming power! When people come truly face-to-face with the truth of God it changes them forever!

[Tucson Jim]

That is great that it all worked out so well for you. No matter how often i find myself at odds with organized religion it is still touching to hear all of the stories of the great impact it can have on lives.

Thanks Andrew.

[Tucson Jim]

Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome! I love telling people what God did in my life!

[Tucson Jim]

Thank you for this wonderful and moving testament!:clap:

Praise God for His Love and Mercy!

[Constantine the Great]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.

Christianity Andrew is not a challenge. It is not a gauntlet to be thrown down at someone's feet. It is a relationship between you and God.

[optrader]

Exactly, i want an explanation from a person instead of verses from any book. Plenty of differences in the christian sects that have the same bible for instance.

I've always been amazed at non-believers objection to Christianity.
If you think about what Christianity teaches, love your neighbor as yourself being one of the major tenets, what is there to object to?
Since Jesus does not force people to worship Him, how does Christianity offend people?

I look at the state of our world to conclude that Christianity is "right." I look at our country and culture 40-50 years ago and see the geometric degeneration since then, and have concluded that something is up. Today we see TV shows such as Leave it to Beaver and the Brady Bunch as corny and quaint, yet they were fairly accurate portrayals of American families in that time period. God's plan was that life would be centered around the nuclear family, meaning father, mother and children and in turn they would, as a unit, center their lives around the worship of Him. The father went out and worked to bring home the daily bread, and the mother stayed home to raise the children. Both worked together to instlill values in their children. It was assumed that since every other family was doing the same thing, and had the same values, other adults such as teachers etc., that interacted with the children would be instilling the same values, teachers, coaches, policemen, and in fact most adults thus were respected by children and trusted by their parents, even most strangers.

I bring this up because I really ask you to look at the state of our society today and objectively consider if we're better off. Dysfunction is the norm in todays families. Divorce, abuse, out of wedlock births are commonplace. Our schools are failing, our prisons are overcrowded, as I said, these things have increased geometrically in the last 40-50 years. Do you believe this degenertion, in such a short time is mere coincidence?

If you consider the struggle between God and satan, you realize that if misery loves company, Satan then wishes to take as many of God's children down with him. What better way than to undermine the nuclear family, the values and love of God that we had for thousands of years. It is not coincidence. Satan knows our nature and has had thousands of years to plan his endgame. Since you asked for no quotes from a book, I won't give any but prophecy is being fulfilled. Christians know by the signs that things are indeed up. Time is short and satan is pulling out all the stops. I sincerely hope you will earnestly seek the truth, it is promised to those who wish to find it... God's blessings

[Koushi Shinigami]

I've always been amazed at non-believers objection to Christianity.
If you think about what Christianity teaches, love your neighbor as yourself being one of the major tenets, what is there to object to?



Christains who don't follow that teaching.


Since Jesus does not force people to worship Him, how does Christianity offend people?




Christians who thy to force others to worship Jesus.

Ever hear this before? Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."



Today we see TV shows such as Leave it to Beaver and the Brady Bunch as corny and quaint, yet they were fairly accurate portrayals of American families in that time period.

:eh: The norm back then? Or was it that disfunctionality was kept in the closet? Have any facts to back that up?

[optrader]

Christains who don't follow that teaching.

Christians who thy to force others to worship Jesus.

The problem is people, not Christianity. True, horrible things have been done in Christ's name (and will be again), but, the people who do these things are NOT Christians. It is our responsibility, as individuals, to learn what scripture says and live accordingly. It is not the fault of Jesus or Christianity if people mis-use His name.

Ever hear this before? Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

I accept the truth of this. However, the only way this works is if coming to Jesus is wholeheartedly voluntary. Forced "conversions" can not ever bring anyone to salvation.

:eh: The norm back then? Or was it that disfunctionality was kept in the closet? Have any facts to back that up?[/QUOTE]

I would never imply that there hasn't always been some level of dysfunction and people outside Jesus' will. Yes, I'm sure much of the problems were hidden in families back then. Today though, there is no shame in out of wedlock births, cohabitating, adultry, homosexuality etc. Substance abuse is rampant and many people see nothing wrong with doing drugs or other things. How did the shame of these things dissapear, unless people are no longer ashamed? This speaks volumes about the state of our society.

I'm sure you have heard statistics such as 35% of caucassion babies are born out of wedlock now and 69% of African American babies. Our prisons now hold over 2,000,000 people. Our high schools students are about 23rd in the scoring of world wide standardized tests. 22 countries, many of them third world score higher than our students. What, to you, would constitute proof of my assertions?

[hben]

Christains who don't follow that teaching.

Christians who thy to force others to worship Jesus.

Ever hear this before? Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

:eh: The norm back then? Or was it that disfunctionality was kept in the closet? Have any facts to back that up?

There have always been families that were not perfect...that's a given, but "screwed-up-ness" was not encouraged and celebrated as it is in today's society.

[the oldtimer]

Christianity Andrew is not a challenge. It is not a gauntlet to be thrown down at someone's feet. It is a relationship between you and God.

Even my ex-wife tells people I am not the person I was. And I can truthfully , say that it was Jesus Christ who changed me. After 30 years my testimony is still,"He changed me".
:flag:

[Andrew_980]

I've always been amazed at non-believers objection to Christianity.
If you think about what Christianity teaches, love your neighbor as yourself being one of the major tenets, what is there to object to?
Since Jesus does not force people to worship Him, how does Christianity offend people?



The topic has nothing to do with objecting to any religion, but to give people the chance to explain to someone why their specific religion or flavor of a religion is right, or at least right for them. There is no need for you to run in here on the defensive, we have been trying to have a civil talk here.

[Koushi Shinigami]

What, to you, would constitute proof of my assertions?

Statistics about the same items from the 50's.

[Koushi Shinigami]

There have always been families that were not perfect...that's a given, but "screwed-up-ness" was not encouraged and celebrated as it is in today's society.

Is it better to allow these things to be pushed out of sight and ignored? Or bring them out and shine a light on them?

[smyrna]

:eh: The norm back then? Or was it that disfunctionality was kept in the closet? Have any facts to back that up?

Koushi, that was my era. I was born in 1958. Leave it to Beaver, Dennis the Menace, Doby Gillis, Father Knows Best, Donna Reed Show, Ozzie and Harriet, these shows were what everyone watched. Families "appeared" to be that way. When I was in kindergarten through high school, I never had a friend who's parents were divorced. I don't ever remember a rape. If I remember correctly, everyone in my class graduated. Not one drop out. There was a suicide. That was terrible. It's not that these things never happened but no where near the rate it is today.

Things slowly began to change from that model to where we are today after President Kennedy got shot.IMO

[the oldtimer]

The topic has nothing to do with objecting to any religion, but to give people the chance to explain to someone why their specific religion or flavor of a religion is right, or at least right for them. There is no need for you to run in here on the defensive, we have been trying to have a civil talk here.

In other words, you don't really want any answers, you just want to talk.

:flag:

[BillyBobUSA]

Convert me!

No.

Convert yourself.

[smyrna]

Is it better to allow these things to be pushed out of sight and ignored? Or bring them out and shine a light on them?

It isn't that a light is being shined on them...it is now portrayed as the norm. Two and a half Men television show; promisuity, divorce, alcoholism, disrespect, lack of honor...I could go on and on are portrayed in a glorious light. I am apart of the problem because instead of not watching it, I'm sitting there laughing. That is the only one though...thank you TIVO.

Movies, tv shows, songs, dress, role models all lack the kind of values that you can build your life on. Country music is about the very best for promoting a good value system.

[biggles53]

I've always been amazed at non-believers objection to Christianity.
If you think about what Christianity teaches, love your neighbor as yourself being one of the major tenets, what is there to object to?

If the religion stopped at that teaching, then it would represent a shining example for the manner in which people should co-exist. But it doesn't stop there does it? It makes a whole host of pronouncements about how people should (and in the past, must) live in order to be acceptable to their fellow men.

Since Jesus does not force people to worship Him, how does Christianity offend people?

The "forcing" wasn't done by Jesus down through the ages, was it? It was done by those acting supposedly in his name...

And I give the followers of Christianity their due. The reason that, of the world's religions, it now represents one of the more benign, or less threatening forms of faith, is that there has been a steady 'watering down' of adherence to the letter of the scriptures. This has occurred at the same pace that the Western world has increased its knowledge of the world, and come to the realisation that this knowledge has flown in the face of previous belief. Thankfully, reason steadily prevails.

The huge challenge is to encourage that other major religion to undergo a similar enlightenment, before our planet disappears under a mushroom cloud.......

I look at the state of our world to conclude that Christianity is "right."

And surely, this has been one of the major problems with all religions down through the ages. A determination of what is "right" being often at odds with the needs and desires of the societies within which it exists.

I look at our country and culture 40-50 years ago and see the geometric degeneration since then, and have concluded that something is up. Today we see TV shows such as Leave it to Beaver and the BraBunch as corny and quaint, yet they were fairly accurate portrayals of American families in that time period. God's plan was that life would be centered around the nuclear family, meaning father, mother and children dy and in turn they would, as a unit, center their lives around the worship of Him. The father went out and worked to bring home the daily bread, and the mother stayed home to raise the children. Both worked together to instlill values in their children. It was assumed that since every other family was doing the same thing, and had the same values, other adults such as teachers etc., that interacted with the children would be instilling the same values, teachers, coaches, policemen, and in fact most adults thus were respected by children and trusted by their parents, even most strangers.

Your idyllic picture of life in the 50's misses just a couple of details, doesn't it? Please explain what life was like for a black person back then...or a woman who didn't agree with your picture of domestic bliss?

I bring this up because I really ask you to look at the state of our society today and objectively consider if we're better off. Dysfunction is the norm in todays families. Divorce, abuse, out of wedlock births are commonplace. Our schools are failing, our prisons are overcrowded, as I said, these things have increased geometrically in the last 40-50 years. Do you believe this degenertion, in such a short time is mere coincidence?

And I would ask you right back to consider why this might be occurring to a greater degree in a nation which professes itself to have the highest level of religious observance in the Western world?

If you consider the struggle between God and satan, you realize that if misery loves company, Satan then wishes to take as many of God's children down with him. What better way than to undermine the nuclear family, the values and love of God that we had for thousands of years. It is not coincidence. Satan knows our nature and has had thousands of years to plan his endgame. Since you asked for no quotes from a book, I won't give any but prophecy is being fulfilled. Christians know by the signs that things are indeed up. Time is short and satan is pulling out all the stops. I sincerely hope you will earnestly seek the truth, it is promised to those who wish to find it... God's blessings

Perhaps you should do some reading. The nuclearity of family life which you hanker after, is a relatively recent phenomenom, born of the industrial revolution. The 'faithful' have lived under all kinds of family/clan/tribal structures over the past 2000 years...

[optrader]

The topic has nothing to do with objecting to any religion, but to give people the chance to explain to someone why their specific religion or flavor of a religion is right, or at least right for them. There is no need for you to run in here on the defensive, we have been trying to have a civil talk here.

I wasn't trying to be defensive, just stating what I observe. There is a noticeable bias against Christianity today. It's hard to make a point about Christianity without resorting to scripture, but I am honoring your request and not doing so. However, it is Christianity that is hated (as predicted) and much of the things I posted in regards to the state of our society are quite prominent signs given in biblical prophecy about the end times.

It was prophecy that convinced me that Christianity is right. Understand, my beliefs in prophecy are not mainstream, I am a historicist, as opposed to the mainstream futurist. It is a matter of historical record that prophecy is unfolding just as scripture predicts.

I would also point out the differences between the God of Christianity and for examples, the gods of Hinduism and Islam. Consider Hinduism: a nation of a billion people, most living in abject poverty and starvation, their god fills their streets with cattle and yet forbids them to eat! IMO, that is the work of a sadist. The god of Islam isn't much better, but at least he gave his people oil so that the sheiks at least could live well. It is tyranny to oppress a people into worship and the only tyrant is Satan. God has blessed the United States abundantly throughout history. In every way, with our natural resources, His influence on the founding fathers when our government was laid out, the freedoms He gave us to become the greatest country on earth. As prophecy predicted, we are turning away from Him as a people but we still can come to Him as individuals.

I don't know what else to say, no one can give you the truth, but if you truly desire to, you will find it.

[Tim]

I wasn't trying to be defensive, just stating what I observe. There is a noticeable bias against Christianity today. (snipped)

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this concept of bias against Christianity today. If there were such a bias then it wouldn't be incumbant upon politicians to somehow afirm that they are Christians.

Just look at our current POTUS... even though he states unequivically that he believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God people still try to assert that he is either a liar or just not a "true" Christian (whatever the hell that means).

Is there really ANY DOUBT that a person of any other faith or nonfaith stands NO CHANCE of being elected POTUS? How far might a devout, peace loving Muslim (yes, there are such people) or Buddhist or atheist get in trying to even garner enough support to get on a national ticket.

In my opinion, Christians who are pounding the "poor us, were under persecution drum" are doing their cause no favors whatsoever. We live in a highly religious society and Christianity dominates in a major way.

[optrader]

If the religion stopped at that teaching, then it would represent a shining example for the manner in which people should co-exist. But it doesn't stop there does it? It makes a whole host of pronouncements about how people should (and in the past, must) live in order to be acceptable to their fellow men.

Again, the problem is people, not Christianity. Would you denounce all white people because of the actions and beliefs of the KKK? The teachings of Jesus are pretty clear, violence and coercion are NOT Christian. The instant a person or group uses either, they ARE NOT Christian regardless of their profession. God relates to us as individuals. We are not lost or saved because we belong to a specific group. It is our individual responsibility to learn the truth and live accordingly and let God worry about those that mis-use His name.


The "forcing" wasn't done by Jesus down through the ages, was it? It was done by those acting supposedly in his name...

See above...

And I give the followers of Christianity their due. The reason that, of the world's religions, it now represents one of the more benign, or less threatening forms of faith, is that there has been a steady 'watering down' of adherence to the letter of the scriptures. This has occurred at the same pace that the Western world has increased its knowledge of the world, and come to the realisation that this knowledge has flown in the face of previous belief. Thankfully, reason steadily prevails.

The Old testament law was given to the Jews. They were already believers and made a covenant with God; They would do all that God required of them. Why then should modern day people, especially Christians, look at the OT relationship God had with His people and complain about the harshness. The requirement changed with Christ and hasn't changed in 2000 years. Today, we are not under OT law


The huge challenge is to encourage that other major religion to undergo a similar enlightenment, before our planet disappears under a mushroom cloud.......

I accept the premise that Christianity is the one true religion and therefore, all other religions are the creation of the father of lies. It is not Satans intent or desire to ever bring peace but to bring chaos, misery and deception to as many people as he can. He want to take as many of Jesus' people down with him as possible. I don't believe the world will disappear under a mushroom cloud, though that may, in hindsight, be better than what actually will happen before Christ returns.

And surely, this has been one of the major problems with all religions down through the ages. A determination of what is "right" being often at odds with the needs and desires of the societies within which it exists.

We can look at the teachings of Christ and the blessings He bestowed on our country, and look at the gods of other religions and the blessings they have. To me, there is no comparison. Love vs. tyranny. Do you believe the US and our standard of living is coincidence? I don't buy it...


Your idyllic picture of life in the 50's misses just a couple of details, doesn't it? Please explain what life was like for a black person back then...or a woman who didn't agree with your picture of domestic bliss?

Again, I never said it was perfect. But on average, is our society more moral today than 50 years ago? If not, why not? I believe it is because we are rejecting God. When the majority of people reject God, He will honor our collective freewill choice and withdraw his presence. Satan is then free to fill the void. Could the increasing presence and influence of Satan be hastening our moral decline? :think:

And I would ask you right back to consider why this might be occurring to a greater degree in a nation which professes itself to have the highest level of religious observance in the Western world?

Because we have been deceived, and lost and rejected the truths we used to hold dearly!


Perhaps you should do some reading. The nuclearity of family life which you hanker after, is a relatively recent phenomenom, born of the industrial revolution. The 'faithful' have lived under all kinds of family/clan/tribal structures over the past 2000 years...[/QUOTE]

I don't buy it! If anything, the industrial revolution drove people to cities which has not been beneficial to maintaining Gods' will for His people. Gods plan is well laid out, the family is His plan upon which society should be based. As I said, destroying this notion and an all out attack on the family is Satans' most effective tool for destruction of Gods' people. Sadly, too many have become unknowing victims to Satans master plan!

[Koushi Shinigami]

In my opinion, Christians who are pounding the "poor us, were under persecution drum" are doing their cause no favors whatsoever. We live in a highly religious society and Christianity dominates in a major way.

Brings to mind the image of self flagellation.

[Gem]

You and I have never gotten along very well, but in this thread you ask a very good question, one I hadn't really thought about that much until right now.

So here goes . . . bottom line . . .I believe my religion is the correct religion because when I had reached the most desperate point in my life, the time when I was ready to put my 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger (sorry for that image, but true), the absolute rock bottom, God absolutely, unequivocally, led me to the faith I now hold.

The proof for me was that He simultaneously led my wife to the same faith totally independently from me!

I attended college and graduate school in a scientific discipline and was totally hostile to religion in all its various forms from the ages of 18-31. I believed in science and thought all religions were mere superstition for all of my life as a young adult.

But at the same time, I was miserable in my personal life. This misery expressed itself in alchoholism, violence, self-centeredness and various and sundry acts I would rather not discuss in a public forum.

One night, after a particularly depraved and demeaning series of events, I was close to suicide. I had the means, I had the plan, I had the example (my stepmother committed suicide with a gun). For some reason, I finally dropped my pride and humbly prayed to God for forgiveness for all I had done and asked Him to either just kill me or use my life for His purposes. I had been witnessed to numerous times by Christians and I asked Jesus to be my Savior and Lord. I asked for His direction in my life.

Meanwhile, unknown to me, my wife, also an unbeliever, though not hostile to religion as I was, had been talking to a Christian at work and read the book he gave her: 'More than a Carpenter" about Jesus. As a result, this Christian evangelist also led her to accept Jesus as her Savior and Lord.

Two weeks after I had surrendered to the Lord without telling my wife, she told me, trembling and with tears in her eyes, that she had accepted Jesus as her Savior. Knowing my hostility to religion, she told me she didn't care what I thought, that she had given her heart to the Lord.

I told her, "I know . . . me too." You could have knocked us both over with a feather!

We found a Community Church nearby and the rest is history.

We have been Christians for 28 years now and have been married for 39 years.

I thank God, most humbly, and with all the love I have in my heart, for all He has done for me, the one who hated Him, the one who mocked Him and all those who believed in Him.

Amazing Grace!

An awsome testamoney Tucson Jim.
And thank the Lord. Just awsome .:clap:

[Gem]

I've always been amazed at non-believers objection to Christianity.
If you think about what Christianity teaches, love your neighbor as yourself being one of the major tenets, what is there to object to?
Since Jesus does not force people to worship Him, how does Christianity offend people?

I look at the state of our world to conclude that Christianity is "right." I look at our country and culture 40-50 years ago and see the geometric degeneration since then, and have concluded that something is up. Today we see TV shows such as Leave it to Beaver and the Brady Bunch as corny and quaint, yet they were fairly accurate portrayals of American families in that time period. God's plan was that life would be centered around the nuclear family, meaning father, mother and children and in turn they would, as a unit, center their lives around the worship of Him. The father went out and worked to bring home the daily bread, and the mother stayed home to raise the children. Both worked together to instlill values in their children. It was assumed that since every other family was doing the same thing, and had the same values, other adults such as teachers etc., that interacted with the children would be instilling the same values, teachers, coaches, policemen, and in fact most adults thus were respected by children and trusted by their parents, even most strangers.

I bring this up because I really ask you to look at the state of our society today and objectively consider if we're better off. Dysfunction is the norm in todays families. Divorce, abuse, out of wedlock births are commonplace. Our schools are failing, our prisons are overcrowded, as I said, these things have increased geometrically in the last 40-50 years. Do you believe this degenertion, in such a short time is mere coincidence?

If you consider the struggle between God and satan, you realize that if misery loves company, Satan then wishes to take as many of God's children down with him. What better way than to undermine the nuclear family, the values and love of God that we had for thousands of years. It is not coincidence. Satan knows our nature and has had thousands of years to plan his endgame. Since you asked for no quotes from a book, I won't give any but prophecy is being fulfilled. Christians know by the signs that things are indeed up. Time is short and satan is pulling out all the stops. I sincerely hope you will earnestly seek the truth, it is promised to those who wish to find it... God's blessings

This is very true, every bit of it. :razz:

[optrader]

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around this concept of bias against Christianity today. If there were such a bias then it wouldn't be incumbant upon politicians to somehow afirm that they are Christians.

Just look at our current POTUS... even though he states unequivically that he believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God people still try to assert that he is either a liar or just not a "true" Christian (whatever the hell that means).

Is there really ANY DOUBT that a person of any other faith or nonfaith stands NO CHANCE of being elected POTUS? How far might a devout, peace loving Muslim (yes, there are such people) or Buddhist or atheist get in trying to even garner enough support to get on a national ticket.

In my opinion, Christians who are pounding the "poor us, were under persecution drum" are doing their cause no favors whatsoever. We live in a highly religious society and Christianity dominates in a major way.

I'm not pounding any drum. Unlike most Christians, I believe self deception will cost most people their salvation. I put myself in this category too, and strive to denounce old beliefs if new light shows them to be false. I am not claiming to be the fount of all truth and knowledge, nor that everyone who doesn't believe as I do is lost. I'm simply saying that too many people are so comfortable in their belief they become immune to the idea they could be wrong about something. It is this attitude, more so than being wrong, which I believe renders people unreceptive to new truth and thus puts their salvation in jeaopardy. From my obsevation of posts and threads in this forum, many don't take deception and Satan too seriously, and doctrines such as once saved always saved don't give much incentive to do so.

Scripture makes it clear that most will be lost and that Jesus and those that follow Him will be persecuted and hated for His names sake. Their is some of this today, but I don't believe it has begun in earnest because, IMO, few are preaching or are receptive to the truth. This will change. I believe as the end gets closer, Jesus will once again raise up prophets to warn people and open their blind eyes to the truth. You will know when this begins, just look for those being ridiculed, persecuted, jailed and killed. If this isn't happening, there's a good chance they aren't preaching truth...

I personally don't care if a Muslim, Buddhist etc. runs for office. I personally would not reject such as POTUS if I believed they were the best candidate. I don't see enough ethics in our government anymore to believe their is a shred of decency left, and this opinion is formed despite the number of politicians claiming to be Christian. They dishonor Christ by their claims and will have their reward. False is false regardless of religious proclamations.

[bayoubill]

No attacking of religions, i just want you to explain to me why your religion (or christian sect) is the correct religion. Mind you that quotes from a book do little to sway without some backing.

So tell me what makes your faith right.


checking to see if Andrew got converted... lol...

[Andrew_980]

checking to see if Andrew got converted... lol...

Nope, banned for a bit but still not a convert