I'm Looking For A Home...

[bayoubill]

Some time back, I replied to a thread that had this as part of its OP:

Can we use this thread as an index of who you are, what religious denomination you belong to, and three or four of the characteristics, or doctrines that you feel best define your beliefs?

My reply:

I adhere to an undefined spirituality.

Some of what I believe:

I believe there is an undefinable "Supreme and Divine Something" which is present and a part of every living and non-living thing, throughout the Universe and beyond. For ease of conversation with others, I call this Supreme Something "God".

I assume that God "made" us and all living and non-living things, throughout the Universe and beyond, but I don't know God's reason for doing this.

I believe that the nature of God, and our relationship to God, is beyond our comprehension.

But I believe you can "know" God (i.e., what God “wants of you to do”) by being still and listening to your inner voice.

I believe that this inner voice (a.k.a. “intuition”) is the same thing as The Holy Spirit of which others speak.

I believe that listening to one's inner voice is, by nature, difficult to initiate and to do on a regular basis, and that the vast majority of people do not listen to their inner voices.

I believe that God ultimately wants us to love one another, and that our inner voices tell us that.

I believe that Jesus was God’s most prefect “prophet”, in that I believe that, of all the people we know of, Jesus had the most acutely developed ability to listen to his inner voice, and that God spoke through Jesus, and that God’s purpose for Jesus was for Jesus to teach others to listen their inner voices, so that we should love one another.

I believe that Jesus was the most effective person we know of in externally presenting God’s message, and that the words of Jesus represent the path that God wants us to take.

I believe others came to us with acutely developed abilities to listen to their inner voices, and that God spoke through them. I think Siddhattha (a.k.a. Gautama Buddha) ranks just below Jesus in this ability, and that the true prophets of various religions had this ability also, to varying degrees.

I believe that Mohammad was a prophet, but only on the order of minor Old Testament prophets, who were guilty of “arrested development” in that they were violently intolerant of “non-chosen” people.

I believe the Bible is divinely inspired, but I don’t believe it is without error and inaccuracies, whether intentional or not.

I believe that Jesus’ message was highjacked by Constantine and the Council of Nicea for their own mundane purposes, and that, over the years, the interpretation of Jesus’ words has been perverted by the Christian Church in order to claim exclusive rights to the path to “salvation”.

I don’t know what salvation is, and I have no idea what lies beyond death. But that doesn’t trouble me. Jesus’ words comfort me, and I am unafraid. In the end, I know that if I follow the path Jesus has laid out for me, all will be well.

I have no trouble believing that Jesus is the son of God and has a special place in God’s domain, but I don’t believe that Jesus is God anymore than you or I are God. I believe that we’re all God’s children.

I believe that God has no gender, and that we have no proper pronoun to use for God. The closest would be "it", which seems inappropriate for God. So I avoid using pronouns when referring to God.


I could say more, but I’ll stop now.

Sorry that I went long on this.


I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’m all for everybody getting what they deserve in this world, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate for a church to take an actively organized side in the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…


So, were do I go from here?

[Thank you Troops]

I'm biased for Jesus as God's son and savior of the world. Given that I recommend reading Sid Roth and Lee Strobel. Sid Roth's history is fascinating in that he was searching also. Lee Strobel's investigative work for Christ led him to talk to the most knowledgable historians and religious researchers in the world.

[bayoubill]

I'm biased for Jesus as God's son and savior of the world. Given that I recommend reading Sid Roth and Lee Strobel. Sid Roth's history is fascinating in that he was searching also. Lee Strobel's investigative work for Christ led him to talk to the most knowledgable historians and religious researchers in the world.


Thanks, tyt...


I'll check 'em out.

[PaleoPaul]

That's really a hard question for me to answer, Bill. Sorry.

[PaleoPaul]

But to give SOMEWHAT of an answer...

I'd say the Reformed Church of America is okay. That's the kind of church I attend. Or try a non-denom church.

[Gem]

I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot poll.
sorry .

[PaleoPaul]

I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot poll.
sorry .
Even if the seeker is genuine.

[bayoubill]

I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot poll.
sorry .


:rolleyes:

It's an honest question...

[JenyEliza]

I don't have answers for you, but I suspect you already know deep in your heart where you belong.

I did the search thing too when I was in my 20's. I was raised a Cradle Catholic, but left the Church because I wasn't happy with it.

And so I wandered, not unlike the Jews in the desert, waiting for some sign from God as to where I belonged. What Church, if not the RCC? :think:

I went to several different churches, even dabbled with a New Age church. Then I had my children, and found myself in the pews of a RCC with them, returning to the beliefs and traditions of my childhood that I'd turned my back on years before.

And there I have remained the last 15 years.

Do I agree with everything the RCC promotes? No (like helping illegal aliens settle in this country and fighting for their imagined "rights", but that is not a directive from the Pope and I am free to disregard as my conscience allows). But on the big things--yes.

Here's a basic statement of our beliefs, which we share with a good many other Christian Church "homes":


The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made.

For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

[Meriweather]

So, were do I go from here?

Psalm 46:10 Be still and know that I am God.

Perhaps at this time you need a place of worship that is quiet and reflective. You will want God to lead you in this decision, not us. I'm happy that you thought we of the Religion Forum might be of help to you--but I'm going to go along with some of the others and refer you up to a Higher Authority. His hands are the best place for you to be right now.

[vir doctus]

So, were do I go from here?

I'm not a big fan of religious organizations or dressing up pretty to sit in a pew one hour a day, one day a week - I can't find either in the Word of God. The Saviour of the world has called me to walk with Him, to know Him, and to make Him known - this I do by living in His shadow, communing in the real world with Believers, and serving everyone who crosses my path as best as I can. I study the Word, I study historic Christianity, and I contemplate modern abuses of Christianity; we read and pray with our children, we encourage them to serve others, and we invite them to join with us in the shadow of the Christ.

I pray you find where God wants you. :pray:

[bayoubill]

Psalm 46:10 Be still and know that I am God.

Perhaps at this time you need a place of worship that is quiet and reflective. You will want God to lead you in this decision, not us. I'm happy that you thought we of the Religion Forum might be of help to you--but I'm going to go along with some of the others and refer you up to a Higher Authority. His hands are the best place for you to be right now.


Thanks for that, Meri.


I have done the quiet and reflective thing...

and now I long for the spiritual fellowship of others

and am seeking a congregation to join.


I will wait for divine inspiration on this,

but in the meantime,

I'm open to suggestions from my fellow mortals.

[bayoubill]

I'm not a big fan of religious organizations or dressing up pretty to sit in a pew one hour a day, one day a week - I can't find either in the Word of God. The Saviour of the world has called me to walk with Him, to know Him, and to make Him known - this I do by living in His shadow, communing in the real world with Believers, and serving everyone who crosses my path as best as I can. I study the Word, I study historic Christianity, and I contemplate modern abuses of Christianity; we read and pray with our children, we encourage them to serve others, and we invite them to join with us in the shadow of the Christ.

I pray you find where God wants you. :pray:


From what I've read, the early disciples enjoyed the fellowship of one another.


Do you attend any sort of religious service, Doc?

[vir doctus]

Do you attend any sort of religious service, Doc?

We do, some more inspired than others. My favourite services are at military chapels - we have worshipped with many brands of Christians there. I had the same misgivings as you about Methodist - we had been to a bad one when we were stationed in Tucson - but when we were in Missouri something drew us to a Methodist church with a fantastic, inspired preacher. My father is a Lutheran minister - I like a lot of what Lutheran's stand for doctrinally, but how they live their lives as Christians (bland ritualists, IMO) is one reason I dug into God's Word for how we should worship Him. Sometimes we attend non-denom - but that usually means "Baptist-lite". One of our favourite preachers was a black Baptist chaplain, he was brilliant and inspiring. Ideally, I'd like to be stationed somewhere that has a home church or stay somewhere long enough to start a home church and get back to the basics.

Sorry for being so verbose. :redface:

[noelle12]

Some time back, I replied to a thread that had this as part of its OP:



My reply:




I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’m all for everybody getting what they deserve in this world, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate for a church to take an actively organized side in the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…


So, were do I go from here?

The search for religious truth is such an important one, but at the same time so personal. I could tell you what I think, but it would mean nothing to you unless the Spirit spoke to you. No person can tell you to what religious denomination you should unite yourself with.

My advice is to get on your knees every day, express to our Father in Heaven the desire of your heart, live your life in such a way that you invite the Holy Ghost to communicate with you, and you will get your answer. I also advise that you do not rely on the arm of flesh for your answer to questions of a spiritual nature. Your Father in Heaven loves you, and He hears and answers your prayers. Be faithful and be patient.

[Meriweather]

Thanks for that, Meri.


I have done the quiet and reflective thing...

and now I long for the spiritual fellowship of others

and am seeking a congregation to join.


I will wait for divine inspiration on this,

but in the meantime,

I'm open to suggestions from my fellow mortals.

Have you joined in any Bible Study groups? That may be a place for you to start. I've met some great people and enjoyed a wonderful fellowship with all Bible Study groups I've been involved with. This is usually a great first step in becoming more involved with the entire church community.

[angelicmadrigal]

Some time back, I replied to a thread that had this as part of its OP:


I have a friend that is Bahá’í , so if anyone wants some information on it and we don't have any practitioners on the board, I'd be glad to talk to her and funnel you all some information.

Personally I like having no ties to any one religious group. There's a really sense of freedom there that I enjoy.

[smyrna]

I attend a formal church to worship the Lord and to encourage others. Many Christians do not spend time in the Bible, make poor choices and have a very hard time with their lives. I want to encourage the brethren to keep going, believing, reading and doing for Christ. The Church as I understand it is all of the believers united in Christ. That is the church that I belong to. There isn't a denomination that I have found that believes exactly as I do so I question how important that is. A denomination isn't a disease that will infect me if I attend. I find a formal church to be more like a driving range and life itself to be the course. I just want to be a great golfer for Christ so to speak.

[5thIDSoldier]

Thanks for that, Meri.


I have done the quiet and reflective thing...

and now I long for the spiritual fellowship of others

and am seeking a congregation to join.


I will wait for divine inspiration on this,

but in the meantime,

I'm open to suggestions from my fellow mortals.

Perhaps you are a denomination unto yourself and could start one of your own?????

[CID_0687]

I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot poll.
sorry .
Wow, that was rude

[smyrna]

Wow, that was rude

Had it been a pole, it would have been rude...I just think she has a lot more questions...poll.:mrgreen:

[CID_0687]

Thanks for that, Meri.


I have done the quiet and reflective thing...

and now I long for the spiritual fellowship of others

and am seeking a congregation to join.


I will wait for divine inspiration on this,

but in the meantime,

I'm open to suggestions from my fellow mortals.
Hey Bill,

I had to search for myself too...I think we all do...some of us are raised in a certain denomination, or religion and just know that it's right for us, others, such as myself, have to find God, and find the place we're most comfortable worshiping for ourselves.

I was raised Episcopalian, but also attended a Baptist church with my grandparents quite often....I later became agnostic...and then when I found my home it was in the Pentecostal church...I've attended and visited several churches, Pentecostal, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian.....and when I've gotten to the church I was suppose to be at for that season of my life, well, I just knew. My beliefs are Pentecostal...but trust me, not all Pentecostal churches are the same...you may have to do like I did...go to the other churches in your area...if one of them is where you're suppose to be, you'll just know.

Praying for you my friend.

[Gem]

Even if the seeker is genuine.

I dont think he is genuine.
I think he is fishing.

[CID_0687]

I dont think he is genuine.
I think he is fishing.
Trust me Gem, I know Bill well enough to know he is genuine. You're being disrespectful.

[PaleoPaul]

I dont think he is genuine.
I think he is fishing.
Some of us know Bill pretty well. You've only been here 3 months and hardly have any posts.

Hmm who to trust...

[hillplus]

If you are earnest in your search, I am sure God will bless you.

I found that one church could answer my questions.

What is the purpose of life?
Where did I come from?
Why am I here?
Where will I go after I die?

One other thing, be open to the possibilities. Search for truth and not just for where you feel comfortable. We all may need to tweak some of our beliefs to align with God's truth.

[CID_0687]

If you are earnest in your search, I am sure God will bless you.

I found that one church could answer my questions.

What is the purpose of life?
Where did I come from?
Why am I here?
Where will I go after I die?

One other thing, be open to the possibilities. Search for truth and not just for where you feel comfortable. We all may need to tweak some of our beliefs to align with God's truth.
Agreed

[Marleysdaddy]

I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’m all for everybody getting what they deserve in this world, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate for a church to take an actively organized side in the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…


So, were do I go from here?

You certainly don't have to adopt all aspects of the Bahá’í faith or Unitarian Universalism...

Much of your "creed" sounds very compatible with some traditions in Mahayana Buddhism...

[PaleoPaul]

If you are earnest in your search, I am sure God will bless you.

I found that one church could answer my questions.

What is the purpose of life?
Where did I come from?
Why am I here?
Where will I go after I die?

One other thing, be open to the possibilities. Search for truth and not just for where you feel comfortable. We all may need to tweak some of our beliefs to align with God's truth.
Exactly.

I've had to do lots of praying and searching to be where I am now...

[Gem]

Trust me Gem, I know Bill well enough to know he is genuine. You're being disrespectful.

Sorry if you think that way.

But from reading his post he know quit a bit about God.

But look, there is enough bibles out there for him to read in which I think he has. and I am sure that he read in the bible all about God and his ways.

He should have at least by reading the bible and know that all he would have to do is to pray and ask God to guide him to the church that is pleasing to God.

[vir doctus]

Sorry if you think that way.

But from reading his post he know quit a bit about God.

But look, there is enough bibles out there for him to read in which I think he has. and I am sure that he read in the bible all about God and his ways.

He should have at least by reading the bible and know that all he would have to do is to pray and ask God to guide him to the church that is pleasing to God.

Throwing Bibles at people does not bring them to Christ or into fellowship with Believers.

[Gem]

Throwing Bibles at people does not bring them to Christ or into fellowship with Believers.

No, but praying and getting your answer from God does.

[vir doctus]

No, but praying and getting your answer from God does.

Sometimes God answers prayers through other people.

[Gem]

Sometimes God answers prayers through other people.

Thats true, but this one I think God would give him an answer because it is such a personal thing.

I been there and done that Vir.

[Semi-Sweet]

My background is church of Christ, but my family and I are disciples-at-large meaning that we refuse to identify with any party within discipledom to the exclusion of others.

“I give you a new commandment: love one another; as I have loved you, so you are to love one another. If there is this love among you, then all will know that you are my disciples.” (John 13:34-35).

John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. We are free men in Christ.

Being a disciple-at-large means being in the fellowship with all those who are in Christ, with no lines of brotherhood being drawn because of differences in interpretation.

I pray you find your path. :pray:

[Marleysdaddy]

Sorry if you think that way.

But from reading his post he know quit a bit about God.

But look, there is enough bibles out there for him to read in which I think he has. and I am sure that he read in the bible all about God and his ways.

He should have at least by reading the bible and know that all he would have to do is to pray and ask God to guide him to the church that is pleasing to God.

I think Bill would likely find answers in some books other than the Bible :think:

[Gem]

I think Bill would likely find answers in some books other than the Bible :think:

Of course.only if he wasn't serious.

[meggers49]

bill, maybe you can try a college chapel. they are ecumenical and avoid the global issues you seem to want to remain free from. They just go and worship/pray together.

[vir doctus]

Of course.only if he wasn't serious.

God can't use other books? :eh:

[Gem]

God can't use other books? :eh:


I didnt say God could use books.

My post here was answering post # 36.

But why couldn't God use other books ?
After all He is all power, knowledge, wisdom,knowing seeing, and hearing,

[RayMan]

Some time back, I replied to a thread that had this as part of its OP:


My reply:

I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’m all for everybody getting what they deserve in this world, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate for a church to take an actively organized side in the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…


So, were do I go from here?

Hey Bill,
I second vir's suggestion about "home" or "house church." Might be just the thing for you. If you google "house church" you will find a number of sites which have a registry of house churches located all around the country. Here's a snippet from Wiki:
----------------------------

House church (or "home church") is an informal term for an independent assembly of Christians intentionally gathering in a home or on other grounds not normally used for worship services, as opposed to a church building, due to specific beliefs. They may meet in homes because they prefer to meet informally, because they believe it is an effective way of creating "community" and engaging in outreach, or because they believe small family-sized churches were a deliberate apostolic pattern in the first century and intended by Christ.[1]

Some churches meet in houses because they lack a conventional church building; these are not normally regarded as house churches as their intent is to move into a larger more conventional facility.

Cell churches are an appendage of conventional, institutional churches that meet in homes and share some characteristics of house churches, but are not normally considered house churches due to their institutional church hierarchy and association.

Some within the house church movement consider the term "house church" to be a misnomer, asserting that the main issue for Christians who practice their faith in this manner is not the house but the type of meeting that takes place; other titles which may be used to describe this movement are "simple church", "relational church", "primitive church", "bodylife", "organic church", or "biblical church".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Church

[Marleysdaddy]

Of course.only if he wasn't serious.

That's a bit insulting to, oh, the BILLIONS of serious theists who adhere to scriptures other than the Bible.

[CID_0687]

No, but praying and getting your answer from God does.
So...you've never gone seeking the advice from people on anything spiritual in nature?

You wouldn't go to a friend from church and ask them about something you were going through?

A lot of folks would just go to their pastor...but you know...Bill doesn't have a Pastor...and he obviously felt as if he could trust people here on this forum to come to them about this issue of his spirituality...and not have to fear being belittled because of his question.

[CID_0687]

Hey Bill,
I second vir's suggestion about "home" or "house church." Might be just the thing for you. If you google "house church" you will find a number of sites which have a registry of house churches located all around the country. Here's a snippet from Wiki:
----------------------------

House church (or "home church") is an informal term for an independent assembly of Christians intentionally gathering in a home or on other grounds not normally used for worship services, as opposed to a church building, due to specific beliefs. They may meet in homes because they prefer to meet informally, because they believe it is an effective way of creating "community" and engaging in outreach, or because they believe small family-sized churches were a deliberate apostolic pattern in the first century and intended by Christ.[1]

Some churches meet in houses because they lack a conventional church building; these are not normally regarded as house churches as their intent is to move into a larger more conventional facility.

Cell churches are an appendage of conventional, institutional churches that meet in homes and share some characteristics of house churches, but are not normally considered house churches due to their institutional church hierarchy and association.

Some within the house church movement consider the term "house church" to be a misnomer, asserting that the main issue for Christians who practice their faith in this manner is not the house but the type of meeting that takes place; other titles which may be used to describe this movement are "simple church", "relational church", "primitive church", "bodylife", "organic church", or "biblical church".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Church
You know Ray, I think you may be onto something there.

[melinda]

You know Ray, I think you may be onto something there.

sure, give him something to use as a signature.... :)

[CID_0687]

sure, give him something to use as a signature.... :)
Yeah, I may should edit...we don't need his head swelling anymore than it already has. ;)

[Gem]

So...you've never gone seeking the advice from people on anything spiritual in nature?

You wouldn't go to a friend from church and ask them about something you were going through?

A lot of folks would just go to their pastor...but you know...Bill doesn't have a Pastor...and he obviously felt as if he could trust people here on this forum to come to them about this issue of his spirituality...and not have to fear being belittled because of his question.

Cid,
I did not say anything like that and you no it.

[CID_0687]

Cid,
I did not say anything like that and you no it.
You said:

Thats true, but this one I think God would give him an answer because it is such a personal thing.

I been there and done that Vir.

Which implies that people should not seek the council of others when making a decision such as this...I agree that we should seek an answer from God, but as Vir said and I agree, sometimes God speaks to us through others...and even if there is 1000 different answers in this thread, their may be one of them that Bill reads and then he hears that little voice and realizes that it's the right one.

Your very first post in this thread was spiteful, there was no need for it...you don't even know Bill, and yet you say, "I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole."

People have to search for God, maybe you didn't, but you are part of the minority if that's the case...we have to find the place where we belong...for me it was as a Pentecostal, for Meriweather it was as a Catholic, for cbut1 it was as a Baptist...for Poisonshady its Judaism...see, there's a place for everyone, and at times we just need a little help finding that place where God wants us to be.

[RayMan]

sure, give him something to use as a signature.... :)

What a marvelous suggestion, mel. :clap:

[RayMan]

Yeah, I may should edit...we don't need his head swelling anymore than it already has. ;)

Too late.

[CID_0687]

Too late.
If you want it...it's yours.

[Gem]

You said:



Which implies that people should not seek the council of others when making a decision such as this...I agree that we should seek an answer from God, but as Vir said and I agree, sometimes God speaks to us through others...and even if there is 1000 different answers in this thread, their may be one of them that Bill reads and then he hears that little voice and realizes that it's the right one.

Your very first post in this thread was spiteful, there was no need for it...you don't even know Bill, and yet you say, "I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole."

People have to search for God, maybe you didn't, but you are part of the minority if that's the case...we have to find the place where we belong...for me it was as a Pentecostal, for Meriweather it was as a Catholic, for cbut1 it was as a Baptist...for Poisonshady its Judaism...see, there's a place for everyone, and at times we just need a little help finding that place where God wants us to be.


WOW, kinda sparkie today .
I didn't mean it to be that way Cid.
I have rather seek for my answers from God my self.
I seen in another thread where this man sat in a church before.

I dont never tell people what church to go to.
I invite them to church. but it is up to them as to what church they go to.

[gpd®]

I'm biased for Jesus as God's son and savior of the world. Given that I recommend reading Sid Roth and Lee Strobel. Sid Roth's history is fascinating in that he was searching also. Lee Strobel's investigative work for Christ led him to talk to the most knowledgable historians and religious researchers in the world.

"Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis is a must. I had it on my desk for 10 years before I read. I truly regretted waiting that long.

[CID_0687]

WOW, kinda sparkie today .
I didn't mean it to be that way Cid.
I have rather seek for my answers from God my self.
I seen in another thread where this man sat in a church before.

I dont never tell people what church to go to.
I invite them to church. but it is up to them as to what church they go to.
And I believe you'll see that the majority of the folks who have posted in this thread have said it's between a person and God where they go.

And yeah, Bill did sit in church before, but there was obviously something that soured him from doing so anymore...and now he's feeling the need to find somewhere to fellowship again...and he felt like sharing that with us...telling someone you wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole is not very helpful to his situation IMHO.

[Gem]

And I believe you'll see that the majority of the folks who have posted in this thread have said it's between a person and God where they go.

And yeah, Bill did sit in church before, but there was obviously something that soured him from doing so anymore...and now he's feeling the need to find somewhere to fellowship again...and he felt like sharing that with us...telling someone you wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole is not very helpful to his situation IMHO.


:cry:

[vir doctus]

You said:



Which implies that people should not seek the council of others when making a decision such as this...I agree that we should seek an answer from God, but as Vir said and I agree, sometimes God speaks to us through others...and even if there is 1000 different answers in this thread, their may be one of them that Bill reads and then he hears that little voice and realizes that it's the right one.

Your very first post in this thread was spiteful, there was no need for it...you don't even know Bill, and yet you say, "I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole."

People have to search for God, maybe you didn't, but you are part of the minority if that's the case...we have to find the place where we belong...for me it was as a Pentecostal, for Meriweather it was as a Catholic, for cbut1 it was as a Baptist...for Poisonshady its Judaism...see, there's a place for everyone, and at times we just need a little help finding that place where God wants us to be.

In the language of my kinfolk, "You are good people, CID." :clap:

[Fire Watch]

Behave folks.

[smyrna]

Bill, please keep in mind that the criteria for choosing a church isn't necessarily where you feel that you can get the most out of Christ but may be where Christ can get the most out of you.

Your obviously well versed.

[Constantine the Great]

Some time back, I replied to a thread that had this as part of its OP:



My reply:




I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’m all for everybody getting what they deserve in this world, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate for a church to take an actively organized side in the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…


So, were do I go from here?

You basically seem to want to belong to a religion that can be everything to eveyone without taking a specific stand. Sorry, but I find that to be somewhat lacking.

[vir doctus]

You basically seem to want to belong to a religion that can be everything to eveyone without taking a specific stand. Sorry, but I find that to be somewhat lacking.

Not all of us are blessed to know what we are looking for before we find it.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

But to give SOMEWHAT of an answer...

I'd say the Reformed Church of America is okay. That's the kind of church I attend. Or try a non-denom church.


I came out of Pentecostalism into the Reformed faith.

[RayMan]

I came out of Pentecostalism into the Reformed faith.

Aw, quit braggin'. ;)

[free2B]

too late and too tired to respond I agree with much of what bayou said in the op maybe I will chime in another time

[RayMan]

too late and too tired to respond I agree with much of what bayou said in the op maybe I will chime in another time

go to bed free

[Constantine the Great]

Not all of us are blessed to know what we are looking for before we find it.

Perhaps, but the two religions mentioned in the OP as possible choices, B'hai or U.U. both espouse an "all roads lead to God" theology. This leads me to conclude that the OP is not looking for THE path to God, but a place where any path leads to God. No rules, structure, teachings other than "be good".

[free2B]

Perhaps, but the two religions mentioned in the OP as possible choices, B'hai or U.U. both espouse an "all roads lead to God" theology. This leads me to conclude that the OP is not looking for THE path to God, but a place where any path leads to God. No rules, structure, teachings other than "be good".

from the op:

"I believe that Jesus was the most effective person we know of in externally presenting God’s message, and that the words of Jesus represent the path that God wants us to take."

[Gem]

perhaps, but the two religions mentioned in the op as possible choices, b'hai or u.u. Both espouse an "all roads lead to god" theology. This leads me to conclude that the op is not looking for the path to god, but a place where any path leads to god. No rules, structure, teachings other than "be good".

+1

Thats the reason I said in another thread that I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll. ( a old country saying from where I am from )

And I caught cane from Cid & Vir and a few others for making that statement.

[CID_0687]

wow

[RayMan]

+1

Thats the reason I said in another thread that I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll. ( a old country saying from where I am from )

And I caught cane from Cid & Vir and a few others for making that statement.

It's pole Gem, not poll. ;)

I can't give the the punchline here in the RF.

[RayMan]

wow

Mornin' homie.

[CID_0687]

Mornin' homie.
Morning Ray, how ya feeling?

[vir doctus]

It's pole Gem, not poll. ;)

I can't give the the punchline here in the RF.

Cane pole. :whistle:

[CID_0687]

Cane pole. :whistle:
:lol:

[Gem]

It's pole Gem, not poll. ;)

I can't give the the punchline here in the RF.


Sorry, and thanks.
and afternoon to ye as well.

[bayoubill]

Thanks to everyone for all y'all's suggestions and feedback...


there's some items that have been brought up in here that I want to address...


but I'll have to save it for another time when I have time to properly do so...

[RayMan]

Thanks to everyone for all y'all's suggestions and feedback...


there's some items that have been brought up in here that I want to address...


but I'll have to save it for another time when I have time to properly do so...

Alrighty Bill.

[Gem]

It's pole Gem, not poll. ;)

I can't give the the punchline here in the RF.


Down in the mountains where I grew up the orginal old english is used most often down in the mountains in KY.

paper polk
Yender
kiver
narrey

[RayMan]

Down in the mountains where I grew up the orginal old english is used most often down in the mountains in KY.

paper polk
Yender
kiver
narrey

My dad grew up on a farm near Heber Springs, Ark. He told me once that when he was growing up back in the 1920's there were folks way back in one holler that spoke straight KJV Elizabethan English.

[Gem]

My dad grew up on a farm near Heber Springs, Ark. He told me once that when he was growing up back in the 1920's there were folks way back in one holler that spoke straight KJV Elizabethan English.

really ? :razz:

[gpd®]

Down in the mountains where I grew up the orginal old english is used most often down in the mountains in KY.

paper polk
Yender
kiver
narrey

....and pollcats

[pictor]

To the OP, do you need an specific institution to be a part of?

I know many people that simply undertake a personal exploration of God, find their own way. I have one friend who holds a multi-faith discussion group, she gets christians, jews, pagans, agnostics, independents (people who don't feel they fit a label), I don't think she has any muslims yet, but she'd be totally open to them. They get together and just reflect on their beliefs, understand where they intersect, where they diverge, etc...

Maybe you can find/start the same.

[RayMan]

Cane pole. :whistle:

Yes we cane!

[RayMan]

really ? :razz:

Yep. They had been up in that holler for generations with no school or teacher and had all learned to read and write from the KJV.

[CID_0687]

Yes we cane!
Bleeding heart lib :rolleyes:

Go hug a tree

[RayMan]

Bleeding heart lib :rolleyes:

Go hug a tree

Don't be hating. I think Desmond Dekker and the Israelites said it best.

http://www.last.fm/music/Desmond+Dekker/_/You+Can+Get+It+If+You+Really+Want

[free2B]

I don't have answers for you, but I suspect you already know deep in your heart where you belong.

I did the search thing too when I was in my 20's. I was raised a Cradle Catholic, but left the Church because I wasn't happy with it.

And so I wandered, not unlike the Jews in the desert, waiting for some sign from God as to where I belonged. What Church, if not the RCC? :think:

I went to several different churches, even dabbled with a New Age church. Then I had my children, and found myself in the pews of a RCC with them, returning to the beliefs and traditions of my childhood that I'd turned my back on years before.

And there I have remained the last 15 years.

Do I agree with everything the RCC promotes? No (like helping illegal aliens settle in this country and fighting for their imagined "rights", but that is not a directive from the Pope and I am free to disregard as my conscience allows). But on the big things--yes.

Here's a basic statement of our beliefs, which we share with a good many other Christian Church "homes":

The Apostles' Creed
(as usually recited today)
The basic creed of Reformed churches, as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles' Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell. [See Calvin]

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

[free2B]

The Apostles' Creed
(as usually recited today)
The basic creed of Reformed churches, as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles' Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell. [See Calvin]

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

apologies jeny the Nicene Creed you posted did not show up

[Mikko]

I'm biased for Jesus as God's son and savior of the world. Given that I recommend reading Sid Roth and Lee Strobel. Sid Roth's history is fascinating in that he was searching also. Lee Strobel's investigative work for Christ led him to talk to the most knowledgable historians and religious researchers in the world.
The people Lee Strobel talked to were in no way, shape nor form the most knowlegdable historians and religious researchers in the world; they were all Christian apologists with a very clear bias and ideological agenda.:)

[Marleysdaddy]

Down in the mountains where I grew up the orginal old english is used most often down in the mountains in KY.

paper polk
Yender
kiver
narrey

Original Old English is something quite different :razz:
Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum
http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/texts/a4.1.html

[RayMan]

Original Old English is something quite different :razz:

http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/library/oe/texts/a4.1.html

She didn't say original she said "orginal," which is mountain folk talk.

You really need to get a teaching gig dude. :mrgreen:

[Marleysdaddy]

She didn't say original she said "orginal," which is mountain folk talk.
I see :lol:

You really need to get a teaching gig dude. :mrgreen:
You're tellin' me...is it sad that I can still recite the first 20 lines of Beowulf in Old English?

[Mikko]

I see :lol:

You're tellin' me...is it sad that I can still recite the first 20 lines of Beowulf in Old English?
It's fascinating, actually.:)

[Marleysdaddy]

It's fascinating, actually.:)

Thank you

I also know Caedmon's Hymn...:redface:

For some reason, I can't seem to forget them - I had to memorize the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales in Middle English when I was a Junior in High School, and I can still recite that too

yes, I'm a huge nerd.

[RayMan]

I see :lol:

You're tellin' me...is it sad that I can still recite the first 20 lines of Beowulf in Old English?

No, I am saying you need an outlet for your innate desire to teach. But if you tend to quote that after a few beers you and I will never go out for a few beers.

I must admit I have never been a big fan of Beowulf. I always root for Grendel.


Sci-Fi Channel did an absolutely atrocious adaptation of Beowulf about a year ago. I couldn't even make it through to the end.

[Mikko]

Thank you

I also know Caedmon's Hymn...:redface:

For some reason, I can't seem to forget them - I had to memorize the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales in Middle English when I was a Junior in High School, and I can still recite that too

yes, I'm a huge nerd.
My first degree was in linguistics, and I am a writing teacher. I have always been fascinated by words and language. I would love to hear Beowulf in old English and Canterbury Tales in Middle English, even if I couldn't understand them.:)

[Marleysdaddy]

No, I am saying you need an outlet for your innate desire to teach. But if you tend to quote that after a few beers you and I will never go out for a few beers.


:))

I don't tend to do that, but I do tend to discuss philosophy A LOT...but isn't that the point of drinking alcohol? (see Symposium)

[vir doctus]

My first degree was in linguistics, and I am a writing teacher. I have always been fascinated by words and language. I would love to hear Beowulf in old English and Canterbury Tales in Middle English, even if I couldn't understand them.:)

http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/OldEnglish/Beowulf.Readings/Beowulf.Readings.html

http://academics.vmi.edu/english/audio/audio_index.html

[Mikko]

http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/OldEnglish/Beowulf.Readings/Beowulf.Readings.html

http://academics.vmi.edu/english/audio/audio_index.html

Thanks Vir. I was googling them even as you posted. Old English sounds Scandinavian, which makes sense because it's a Germanic language. Middle English still has some of that Scandinavian sound to it.:)

[vir doctus]

Thanks Vir. I was googling them even as you posted. Old English sounds Scandinavian, which makes sense because it's a Germanic language. Middle English still has some of that Scandinavian sound to it.:)

All good things come from Norway.

[RayMan]

:))

I don't tend to do that, but I do tend to discuss philosophy A LOT...but isn't that the point of drinking alcohol? (see Symposium)

The two don't mix well but unless you are in a rowdy sports bar, they always mix after the third or fourth beer.

[Marleysdaddy]

http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/OldEnglish/Beowulf.Readings/Beowulf.Readings.html

http://academics.vmi.edu/english/audio/audio_index.html

Thanks vir...I can't hear them here at work, but I'll listen when I get home. It will be interesting to compare these readings to the pronunciation I was taught - I remember in Old English we had a professor from another university come in and read some stuff and it sounded a little different from our professor.

[RayMan]

All good things come from Norway.

Mmm...kippers.

[bayoubill]

still looking...

[bayoubill]

You basically seem to want to belong to a religion that can be everything to eveyone without taking a specific stand. Sorry, but I find that to be somewhat lacking.


Maybe you’ve misread me, Connie…

let me try to restate it…


I seek a congregation of folks that gathers together to honor our Creator…

and to give thanks for the blessings bestowed…

and to give one another the love and spiritual support that such fellowship offers.


a congregation of folks

who love and revere Jesus,

and who study and strive to follow his teachings…

but who also acknowledge and honor the right-minded teachings of other religions.


a congregation of folks

of whom many if not most may have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior,

but who don’t mind that I haven’t.


and, regarding the wider world…


a congregation of folks who feel that the most effective way to try to change the world

is by raising your children with love and disciplined attention.


a congregation of folks who feel that the best way to try to influence others

is by bearing quiet witness in our attempts at living a righteous day-to-day life.


a congregation of folks who feel duty-bound to help the less fortunate,

but who also feel that it’s inappropriate to lobby the government to do this for them.


a congregation of folks who may hold different opinions about the issues of the day,

but, for those issues on which we agree, are not afraid to let their voices be publicly heard in unison.

[bayoubill]

BTW...

I apologize for having only just now come back to revisit this thread.


I want to thank all the good folks who responded...

I sincerely appreciate the heart-felt thoughts and suggestions...


I'm on the verge of tears as I'm reading through them all...

[bayoubill]

My background is church of Christ, but my family and I are disciples-at-large meaning that we refuse to identify with any party within discipledom to the exclusion of others.

“I give you a new commandment: love one another; as I have loved you, so you are to love one another. If there is this love among you, then all will know that you are my disciples.” (John 13:34-35).

John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. We are free men in Christ.

Being a disciple-at-large means being in the fellowship with all those who are in Christ, with no lines of brotherhood being drawn because of differences in interpretation.

I pray you find your path. :pray:


Thank you, Semi...

John 13:34 is one of my favorite Bible verses...

I made a framed copy of it and have it on the wall right here next to me...

whenever I'm at the computer (like right now), it's a coupla feet to my right...

[bayoubill]

Hey Bill,
I second vir's suggestion about "home" or "house church." Might be just the thing for you. If you google "house church" you will find a number of sites which have a registry of house churches located all around the country. Here's a snippet from Wiki:
----------------------------

House church (or "home church") is an informal term for an independent assembly of Christians intentionally gathering in a home or on other grounds not normally used for worship services, as opposed to a church building, due to specific beliefs. They may meet in homes because they prefer to meet informally, because they believe it is an effective way of creating "community" and engaging in outreach, or because they believe small family-sized churches were a deliberate apostolic pattern in the first century and intended by Christ.[1]

Some churches meet in houses because they lack a conventional church building; these are not normally regarded as house churches as their intent is to move into a larger more conventional facility.

Cell churches are an appendage of conventional, institutional churches that meet in homes and share some characteristics of house churches, but are not normally considered house churches due to their institutional church hierarchy and association.

Some within the house church movement consider the term "house church" to be a misnomer, asserting that the main issue for Christians who practice their faith in this manner is not the house but the type of meeting that takes place; other titles which may be used to describe this movement are "simple church", "relational church", "primitive church", "bodylife", "organic church", or "biblical church".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Church


sounds good, Ray...

but I haven't found any around here...


maybe I should start one...

I imagine there's probably other like-minded folks 'round here seeking a place to gather...


lol...

only problem is that my wife would probably divorce me if I did...

it's not like I don't already have enough demands on my time...

[bayoubill]

Bill, please keep in mind that the criteria for choosing a church isn't necessarily where you feel that you can get the most out of Christ but may be where Christ can get the most out of you.


Thanks for the reality check, S…


I understand and accept that I am a mere mortal

and that my time here on Earth is limited

and that I am infinitely insignificant in relation to our Creator

and that I should spend whatever time I have left here to honor and bear witness to our Creator.


I understand that, like all other things constructed by mortals, the “Perfect Church” simply doesn’t exist

and that I may sometimes be too picky about things.


I’d be willing to settle for a congregation that, at the very least, makes me feel “at home”

as opposed to making me feel like an alien from outer space.


I still haven’t found that yet…

[bayoubill]

You certainly don't have to adopt all aspects of the Bahá’í faith or Unitarian Universalism...

Much of your "creed" sounds very compatible with some traditions in Mahayana Buddhism...


lol...

I've spent time with the local congregations of both the Bahá’í's and the Unitarians...

in addition to having real problems with both faiths' beliefs that Governmental Action is the answer to all of our mortal problems,

it seems like the people in these congregations, and not me, are the ones from outer space.


and... lol...

wish me luck finding a congregation of Buddhists within a 500 mile radius of where I live...

[Andrew_980]

I hear you man, i have yet to find a religion (let alone specific church) that really clicks for me. I disagree with far too much dogma to really fit and being completely non-christian doesn't help

[bayoubill]

To the OP, do you need an specific institution to be a part of?

I know many people that simply undertake a personal exploration of God, find their own way. I have one friend who holds a multi-faith discussion group, she gets christians, jews, pagans, agnostics, independents (people who don't feel they fit a label), I don't think she has any muslims yet, but she'd be totally open to them. They get together and just reflect on their beliefs, understand where they intersect, where they diverge, etc...

Maybe you can find/start the same.


not looking for an institution...

simply a local gathering of like-minded folks...


the gathering of which you speak sounds interesting, but that's not what I'm looking for...

I'd like to be in a gathering of others who simply, dearly and unconditionally love Jesus

and who want to follow his example...

but who also don't buy into the exclusivity of estabished Christianity.


Is that too much to ask for? lol...

[Old_Mil]

I believe that the nature of God, and our relationship to God, is beyond our comprehension...

But I believe you can "know" God (i.e., what God “wants of you to do”) by being still and listening to your inner voice...

I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…

So, were do I go from here?

Personally, I don't think you need a church home given the above. Before you could really benefit from one, you'd need to demote yourself from the throne and let Jesus get back on it.

[vir doctus]

Personally, I don't think...

Please refrain from the personal attacks.

[bayoubill]

Please refrain from the personal attacks.


That's okay, vir...

Old_Mil is just reminding me that I must remain humble...

and I must admit I have trouble with that sometimes...

[vir doctus]

That's okay, vir...

Old_Mil is just reminding me that I must remain humble...

and I must admit I have trouble with that sometimes...

Now, that is Christlike. Never have pictured Him on a throne.

[hben]

Some time back, I replied to a thread that had this as part of its OP:

My reply:

I thought maybe the Bahá’í faith or maybe the Unitarian Universalists might be a home for me, but then I found out that both of them espouse some form of globalist government, as opposed to the innate and righteous goodness of the individual…

Moreover, they also promote “social justice”, which has always given me pause, because the proponents of social justice always seen to think that capitalism is evil and thus advocate unbridled governmental action to battle the “evils” of the free market, while at the same time never acknowledging that the actions of unbridled government have led to the most egregious violations of “social justice”.

I’m all for everybody getting what they deserve in this world, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate for a church to take an actively organized side in the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

I’ve lately thought maybe I’d be comfortable with a conventional Christian denomination like the Methodists, because, even though I don’t buy into the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to “salvation”, I love Jesus...

but the Methodists, too, espouse “social justice”…


So, were do I go from here?

I don't know what to tell you after reading what your beliefs are. Ever thought about starting your own? If you don't accept Jesus as the way, the truth and the life, any other ways, truths or lives would seem irrelevant to me.

[DRS]

Now, that is Christlike. Never have pictured Him on a throne.

Not good to picture anyone on the throne :razz: