Best current NHL player?

[alexz2317]

Who is the best current NHL hockey player. I will not add Sidney Crosby because he needs to grow up. Watch the video if you don't know what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wqR17KrLKw

A cheap-shot artists doesn't deserve to be on this list.

[scmarcos]

Who is the best current NHL hockey player. I will not add Sidney Crosby because he needs to grow up. Watch the video if you don't know what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wqR17KrLKw

A cheap-shot artists doesn't deserve to be on this list.

Ovechkin is the biggest cheap shotter ever. You should take him off the list too.

[alexz2317]

Ovechkin is the biggest cheap shotter ever. You should take him off the list too.
I haven't seen him play too much this year so I haven't seen anything.

[iamredbeard]

Mike Babcock was given this question and he it would be Nick Lidstrom and that it really isn't that close. So I'll be a homer and agree with the Wings head coach.

[super cool ski instructor]

Mike Babcock was given this question and he it would be Nick Lidstrom and that it really isn't that close. So I'll be a homer and agree with the Wings head coach.

I think I'll do the same :D

[iamredbeard]

I think I'll do the same :D

Let's grab some hockey sticks and do a whack attack on Alex for not putting him as a poll choice. :cool:

[alexz2317]

I am ashamed of myself. I cannot believe I forgot to put Lidstrom on there.

[iamredbeard]

I am ashamed of myself. I cannot believe I forgot to put Lidstrom on there.

As you should be. :naughty:

[super cool ski instructor]

As you should be. :naughty:

+1


Alex...we are disappointed in you!


:razz:

[megs280]

Malkin. Crosby does deserve to be on that list (though I think Malkin is better right now). He isn't a cheap-shot artist.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Of those you have listed, I went with Zetterberg and "other" (for Lidstrom)

And for argument's sake...can we get a shout for Mike Richards and Jeff Carter?

Richards is among the league's best captains in addition to best defensive forwards, and Carter is the league's leading goal scorer right now.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Malkin. Crosby does deserve to be on that list (though I think Malkin is better right now). He isn't a cheap-shot artist.

Alex has a bigger vendetta against Sidney Crosby than he has against ManOfFaith for being so anti-Lions.

[grbennett]

Gotta go with Ovechkin.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Gotta go with Ovechkin.

Have they finally started using Ovechkin on the PK yet?

[noose4]

Mike Babcock was given this question and he it would be Nick Lidstrom and that it really isn't that close. So I'll be a homer and agree with the Wings head coach.

yes i noticed him missing from the survey, he would have gotten my vote, i voted ovechkin but should have voted other.

[grbennett]

Have they finally started using Ovechkin on the PK yet?

I don't know. I usually only get to watch Jackets games.

[noose4]

Gotta go with Ovechkin.

did you vote for ovechkin in the poll? i thought i did but maybe i hit the wrong button?:redface:

[grbennett]

did you vote for ovechkin in the poll? i thought i did but maybe i hit the wrong button?:redface:

I did now. I forgot to vote before.

[noose4]

I did now. I forgot to vote before.

okay, my vote registered,

POTVIN'S CUPS!!!!:razz:

[alexz2317]

Alex has a bigger vendetta against Sidney Crosby than he has against ManOfFaith for being so anti-Lions.
Okay, in the last month, Crosby was a third man in, he punched the guy on the head with his gloves on from behind. He punched him in the balls. Then against Florida, he jumps the other player off the face-off with his head down waiting for the draw. Why no suspension? Then you get Avery's suspension for a comment about a girlfriend and another player. The league protects Crosby. They make him out to be the best player ever. He isn't the best player on his team (Malkin). Crosby has the skills to be one of the best, but his temper and his emotions always get the best of him. He was a baby during the finals against Detroit.

[grbennett]

okay, my vote registered,

POTVIN'S CUPS!!!!:razz:

I bet it feels good knowing that the Isles did more in one decade than the Rangers have done in 80 years.

[noose4]

I bet it feels good knowing that the Isles did more in one decade than the Rangers have done in 80 years.


it would if not for the current state of the islanders.

[alexz2317]

it would if not for the current state of the islanders.
No kidding, they look terrible now.

[megs280]

Okay, in the last month, Crosby was a third man in, he punched the guy on the head with his gloves on from behind. He punched him in the balls. Then against Florida, he jumps the other player off the face-off with his head down waiting for the draw. Why no suspension? Then you get Avery's suspension for a comment about a girlfriend and another player. The league protects Crosby. They make him out to be the best player ever. He isn't the best player on his team (Malkin). Crosby has the skills to be one of the best, but his temper and his emotions always get the best of him. He was a baby during the finals against Detroit.

I saw the Florida game and read Crosby's account of the event. He claimed he asked the centerman from Florida if he wanted to fight and he thought the player said yes. The guy from Florida said Crosby said something to him before the faceoff but he didn't understand. I was angry with Crosby after that and thought it was very unprofessional. He gave Florida a 4 minute powerplay which they scored on. Then the team was without him for practically the whole third period. He was punished enough for instigating the fight.

You admit Crosby has the skills to be one of the best. He is only 21 years old..he isn't perfect and gets frustrated. I'm sure he will mature and become more professional with time. Regardless of his slump, he still is third in the scoring race.

[Buffalo]

Jarkko Ruutu.

[Buffalo]

Okay, in the last month, Crosby was a third man in, he punched the guy on the head with his gloves on from behind. He punched him in the balls. Then against Florida, he jumps the other player off the face-off with his head down waiting for the draw. Why no suspension? Then you get Avery's suspension for a comment about a girlfriend and another player. The league protects Crosby. They make him out to be the best player ever. He isn't the best player on his team (Malkin). Crosby has the skills to be one of the best, but his temper and his emotions always get the best of him. He was a baby during the finals against Detroit.
I've sparred w/ ya over Crosby before but I gotta say that "fight" was about as lame as I've ever seen.

[scmarcos]

I've sparred w/ ya over Crosby before but I gotta say that "fight" was about as lame as I've ever seen.

No. The lamest fight ever was Semin playing the bongos on Mark Staal. I have never seen a bigger vagina in my life than him.

[Buffalo]

No. The lamest fight ever was Semin playing the bongos on Mark Staal. I have never seen a bigger vagina in my life than him.
That made me laugh, thanks.

[alexz2317]

I saw the Florida game and read Crosby's account of the event. He claimed he asked the centerman from Florida if he wanted to fight and he thought the player said yes. The guy from Florida said Crosby said something to him before the faceoff but he didn't understand. I was angry with Crosby after that and thought it was very unprofessional. He gave Florida a 4 minute powerplay which they scored on. Then the team was without him for practically the whole third period. He was punished enough for instigating the fight.

You admit Crosby has the skills to be one of the best. He is only 21 years old..he isn't perfect and gets frustrated. I'm sure he will mature and become more professional with time. Regardless of his slump, he still is third in the scoring race.
Yzerman and Lemeiux need to have a talk with him. He's the "captain". He should act like one. Some say it was to rile his team up, well he got 19 minutes in penalties off of that stupid play. That's not being a captain.

[snagswolf]

Who is the best current NHL hockey player. I will not add Sidney Crosby because he needs to grow up. Watch the video if you don't know what I mean.
So, in other words, you put this entire poll together just to whine about Crosby?

It's ok, you Crosby haters like to cry about him, but he's led the All-Star voting for three years running, he's always near or on the top of the scoring race, and he's the youngest captain ever to take his team to the finals, just turning 21 a few months ago.

[snagswolf]

Yzerman and Lemeiux need to have a talk with him.
Since Sidney is still bunking in Mario's spare bedroom, I'm sure he gets an earfull at the dinner table.

[iamredbeard]

So, in other words, you put this entire poll together just to whine about Crosby?

It's ok, you Crosby haters like to cry about him, but he's led the All-Star voting for three years running, he's always near or on the top of the scoring race, and he's the youngest captain ever to take his team to the finals, just turning 21 a few months ago.

I don't put much stock into the voting because that just means that he's the fan favorite and not necessarily the best. As for him being at the top of the scoring that is impressive, but being bias like I am I look at the Wings. They never have anyone in the top 5 in scoring but they always lead the NHL in scoring or close to it, because they are so deep. They don't have one or two lines carrying the team. Besides I would rather have two way players over someone who is a scoring machine, but can't play defense. Take my team for example, Zetterberg and Datsyuk put up close 80+ points every year, are often on the power kill as well as the power play, and were Selke finalists last year. Yep I'd rather have them than scoring beasts who can't play defense all that well.

[alexz2317]

I don't put much stock into the voting because that just means that he's the fan favorite and not necessarily the best. As for him being at the top of the scoring that is impressive, but being bias like I am I look at the Wings. They never have anyone in the top 5 in scoring but they always lead the NHL in scoring or close to it, because they are so deep. They don't have one or two lines carrying the team. Besides I would rather have two way players over someone who is a scoring machine, but can't play defense. Take my team for example, Zetterberg and Datsyuk put up close 80+ points every year, are often on the power kill as well as the power play, and were Selke finalists last year. Yep I'd rather have them than scoring beasts who can't play defense all that well.
Well said :clap: That's why the Red Wings are almost 2nd in points in the league and Pittsburgh is out of a playoff spot as of today.

[alexz2317]

So, in other words, you put this entire poll together just to whine about Crosby?

It's ok, you Crosby haters like to cry about him, but he's led the All-Star voting for three years running, he's always near or on the top of the scoring race, and he's the youngest captain ever to take his team to the finals, just turning 21 a few months ago.

Oh and I put this poll together for who is doing the best so far this year. Crosby is definitely showing his true age and his temper. A leader doesn't take 19 minutes in penalty minutes to "spark" the team.

[megs280]

I don't put much stock into the voting because that just means that he's the fan favorite and not necessarily the best. As for him being at the top of the scoring that is impressive, but being bias like I am I look at the Wings. They never have anyone in the top 5 in scoring but they always lead the NHL in scoring or close to it, because they are so deep. They don't have one or two lines carrying the team. Besides I would rather have two way players over someone who is a scoring machine, but can't play defense. Take my team for example, Zetterberg and Datsyuk put up close 80+ points every year, are often on the power kill as well as the power play, and were Selke finalists last year. Yep I'd rather have them than scoring beasts who can't play defense all that well.

I would say Malkin, Ovechkin (from what I've seen), and Crosby can play defense well. In fact, Malkin has a high plus-minus right now and he has an amazing ability to steal the puck when he wants and go the other way with it. I agree with you..Detroit is a great team and they are very deep but this thread is not about team depth its about who we think is the best player in the NHL right now. If you think Datsyuk is the best player in the league being more of a two way player then the rest that is fine. That criteria isn't going to be used by everybody though.

[megs280]

Well said :clap: That's why the Red Wings are almost 2nd in points in the league and Pittsburgh is out of a playoff spot as of today.

You are correct. Malkin and your pal Sidney must really be great players if they are #1 and 3 in the scoring race and their team is not even in a playoff spot. Anyway I wouldn't worry about Pittsburgh, when Gonchar returns I think the Pens will move up significantly in the standings.

[alexz2317]

You are correct. Malkin and your pal Sidney must really be great players if they are #1 and 3 in the scoring race and their team is not even in a playoff spot. Anyway I wouldn't worry about Pittsburgh, when Gonchar returns I think the Pens will move up significantly in the standings.

Pittsburgh is not a threat in the East this year. I would say Boston is. Montreal is not that good. The East sucks in general honestly.

[alexz2317]

I would say Malkin, Ovechkin (from what I've seen), and Crosby can play defense well. In fact, Malkin has a high plus-minus right now and he has an amazing ability to steal the puck when he wants and go the other way with it. I agree with you..Detroit is a great team and they are very deep but this thread is not about team depth its about who we think is the best player in the NHL right now. If you think Datsyuk is the best player in the league being more of a two way player then the rest that is fine. That criteria isn't going to be used by everybody though.

Pavel Datsyuk is the complete package. He can score, he can pass. He's got great moves. He can hit, just search youtube for Datsyuk hits. He can play defense. He is always at the top of the list for takeaways.

[iamredbeard]

I would say Malkin, Ovechkin (from what I've seen), and Crosby can play defense well. In fact, Malkin has a high plus-minus right now and he has an amazing ability to steal the puck when he wants and go the other way with it. I agree with you..Detroit is a great team and they are very deep but this thread is not about team depth its about who we think is the best player in the NHL right now. If you think Datsyuk is the best player in the league being more of a two way player then the rest that is fine. That criteria isn't going to be used by everybody though.

Actually I think Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. I base that on that I have heard coach after coach say that he is the best and it's not even close. Despite that he has never been a Hart Finalist. My point about Detroit being deep is that we don't need our best players to be in the top 5 in scoring. It's not how the team is built. But if Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, and Franzen were on a different team that would all have more goals. They all have potential to have 100+ point seasons, but that's not going to happen in Detroit. My point is that in terms of forwards I would rather have a great 2 way player than one who is simply a scoring machine. In Yzerman's early days he was a scoring machine, but when Bowman came in and said that he had to become a more defensive forward, he became a great 2 way player and I would say a better player than he was before.

[Beccaria]

What? No goalies on the list????

[scmarcos]

Well said :clap: That's why the Red Wings are almost 2nd in points in the league and Pittsburgh is out of a playoff spot as of today.

No it's not. Every Pens defenseman has missed significant time with injury this year, so has our starting goalie. That is why the Pens are struggling. Well that and we have an idiot for a head coach.

[alexz2317]

What? No goalies on the list????

Miikka Kiprusoff?

[Beccaria]

Miikka Kiprusoff?

Whoops! Sorry, alex-not used to seeing the names of good goalies that don't have the last names "Osgood" or "Conklin" :D

[JimGP20]

Jarkko Ruutu.

Isn't that a day spa in Reykjavik ?? :cool:

[alexz2317]

Whoops! Sorry, alex-not used to seeing the names of good goalies that don't have the last names "Osgood" or "Conklin" :D

Haha. Well Osgood has been not very good this year. Conklin has been decent. But there has been way better goalies this year so far.

[snagswolf]

I don't put much stock into the voting because that just means that he's the fan favorite and not necessarily the best.
'Fan favorite' simply means that more people think he's the best.

Of course that doesn't necessarily mean he's the best. But 'best' is just an opinion, and I'm pointing out that many people around the NHL regard him as the best, despite those who have personal grudges against him.

[snagswolf]

Oh and I put this poll together for who is doing the best so far this year. Crosby is definitely showing his true age and his temper. A leader doesn't take 19 minutes in penalty minutes to "spark" the team.
Crosby is currently third in the league in scoring.

A list of who is 'doing the best' that doesn't include the third leading scorer, and one of the leading scorers since he came in the league, is nothing more than your petty way of letting everyone know you personally don't like him.

[Buffalo]

Isn't that a day spa in Reykjavik ?? :cool:
They give crappy hand massages.

[iamredbeard]

Crosby is currently third in the league in scoring.

A list of who is 'doing the best' that doesn't include the third leading scorer, and one of the leading scorers since he came in the league, is nothing more than your petty way of letting everyone know you personally don't like him.

Personally I have nothing against him. He was called the next great one before he was even drafted and in all honesty in hasn't disappointed. I just prefer players that play both sides of the ice. I used the Yzerman example earlier. He was the last player to have 60 goals in back to back seasons (1989 and 1990). but I think his best hockey was played when Bowman came to town and convinced him to play both sides of the ice. When I see players who are mentioned as some of the best defensive forwards and still are offensive threats, well I would prefer them. Having said that I am just a homer and am bias to my team.

[alexz2317]

Crosby is currently third in the league in scoring.

A list of who is 'doing the best' that doesn't include the third leading scorer, and one of the leading scorers since he came in the league, is nothing more than your petty way of letting everyone know you personally don't like him.
Crosby is a punk, nothing more. I don't care if you love him and idol him, but I don't think he is worthy until he get's an attitude adjustment since he's "The One".

[Z_only1]

Just love the reasons for the crosby hating.

You could make the case for Iginla of the Flames. Unfortunately, this tainted wing thread is just funny, ie 3 wings.

[alexz2317]

Just love the reasons for the crosby hating.

You could make the case for Iginla of the Flames. Unfortunately, this tainted wing thread is just funny, ie 3 wings.

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Hossa

I could have put Lidstrom on but I forgot. He's arguably the best defenseman ever. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the 2 best 2-way players in the game, better than your Crosby and Malkin. Hossa is a power forward who can't be knocked off the puck. He'd be on this list if he wasn't a Wing. Don't hate on a great team. Back to back champs buddy. Just pray that your Pens make the playoffs because as of now, they are 2 spots out of the playoffs.

[alexz2317]

And we could argue between Crosby and Avery.

Avery- 6 games for a comment about his ex-girlfriend and current NHL player.

Crosby- 0 games for a low blow and a sucker punch to the back of a defenseless players head. While another guy was swinging away at him. He should have gotten a 3rd man in. Then you got that "fight" between him and the Panther. The guy was looking down waiting for the faceoff and that punk Crosby jumps on him. I've got videos to prove it. But why does Avery get suspended for something like that and Crosby gets nothing? Crosby is a goon, a cry baby, and a diver. Nothing more.

[Z_only1]

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Hossa

I could have put Lidstrom on but I forgot. He's arguably the best defenseman ever. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the 2 best 2-way players in the game, better than your Crosby and Malkin. Hossa is a power forward who can't be knocked off the puck. He'd be on this list if he wasn't a Wing. Don't hate on a great team. Back to back champs buddy. Just pray that your Pens make the playoffs because as of now, they are 2 spots out of the playoffs.

Come on man. I'm a sharks fan, pay attention.

Hossa's your best player bare none.

A little perspective, roll the clock back to last year when your team was sliding of the cliff, the losing streak.

Your wings are still 2nd in pts and yeah there's 2 more head to head.

Why are you going to the gutter with avery bs? Bettman overextended his authority.

Good luck

[alexz2317]

Come on man. I'm a sharks fan, pay attention.

Hossa's your best player bare none.

A little perspective, roll the clock back to last year when your team was sliding of the cliff, the losing streak.

Your wings are still 2nd in pts and yeah there's 2 more head to head.

Good luck

Guess who your coach came from?

San Jose seems to have been slipping as of late. Detroit is playing stronger now. Hossa is not our best player, Zetterberg is. San Jose is an awesome team, but they haven't proven themselves in the playoffs. Good luck. How did that 6-0 shellacking feel? :cool:

[alexz2317]

Oh and last year we had a horrible February yet we still won the Presidents Trophy.

[iamredbeard]

Come on man. I'm a sharks fan, pay attention.

Hossa's your best player bare none.

A little perspective, roll the clock back to last year when your team was sliding of the cliff, the losing streak.

Your wings are still 2nd in pts and yeah there's 2 more head to head.

Why are you going to the gutter with avery bs? Bettman overextended his authority.

Good luck

Well the Wings head coach will disagree with you on that.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Come on man. I'm a sharks fan, pay attention.

Hossa's your best player bare none.

A little perspective, roll the clock back to last year when your team was sliding of the cliff, the losing streak.

Your wings are still 2nd in pts and yeah there's 2 more head to head.

Why are you going to the gutter with avery bs? Bettman overextended his authority.

Good luck

Hossa is NOT their best player. Not by a long shot.

Yes...I'll take "Euros who disappear when it matters" for $400, Alex. 61 points, -1 in his career in the playoffs, and that's even including last year's performance. Before that...to classify him as a "disappointment" would be an understatement of incredible proportions.

[scmarcos]

Hossa is soft. Many of the Wings are also soft but Hossa is Charmin soft.

And Wings fans crying about diving is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. I thought they had Greg Luganis (sp?) in goal during the playoffs last year.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Hossa is soft. Many of the Wings are also soft but Hossa is Charmin soft.

And Wings fans crying about diving is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. I thought they had Greg Luganis (sp?) in goal during the playoffs last year.

Can Flyers fans complain about the exhibition the Pens put on? Sidney Louganis Crosby did a hell of a job in that series. There was one play where he went down without being touched and they called a penalty.

[scmarcos]

Can Flyers fans complain about the exhibition the Pens put on? Sidney Louganis Crosby did a hell of a job in that series. There was one play where he went down without being touched and they called a penalty.

My point is everyone dives. "Diving " Danny Briere ring a bell?

[iamredbeard]

Hossa is soft. Many of the Wings are also soft but Hossa is Charmin soft.

And Wings fans crying about diving is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. I thought they had Greg Luganis (sp?) in goal during the playoffs last year.

That is BS. I have been hearing this argument for years. The Wings are not soft.

[megs280]

Actually I think Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. I base that on that I have heard coach after coach say that he is the best and it's not even close. Despite that he has never been a Hart Finalist. My point about Detroit being deep is that we don't need our best players to be in the top 5 in scoring. It's not how the team is built. But if Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, and Franzen were on a different team that would all have more goals. They all have potential to have 100+ point seasons, but that's not going to happen in Detroit. My point is that in terms of forwards I would rather have a great 2 way player than one who is simply a scoring machine. In Yzerman's early days he was a scoring machine, but when Bowman came in and said that he had to become a more defensive forward, he became a great 2 way player and I would say a better player than he was before.

I think Lidstrom is the best defenseman in the NHL without a doubt. The forwards you list are all great players and some of the best but I don't think any of them are the best player (or forward) in the NHL right now...just my biased opinion. Both Zetterberg and Datsyuk do definately deserve to be on the list though. Its not just being a 'scoring machine' its about a player executing impossible passes that set other players up resulting in making their linemates look better, having an accurate and hard shot, and the skating ability to maneuver past the other teams defense and make it look easy. Controlling the puck in the other teams zone for long periods of time is playing good defense. To do that night after night and have 2 or 3 point games throughout the season is a testimony to the skill of the player so I do put a lot of stock in the point race..both goals and assists.

I understand your point about Detroit playing a different system. However, regardless of how the team is built they have more goals than any other team in hockey right now. I attribute that to the depth of the team like you pointed out..having more than two great lines and many talented forwards instead of just a few. Plus they have great defensemen which the Pens seem to be lacking right now. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were very high in scoring last year..and Zetterberg was first in the playoffs. I do not think Detroit’s system hampers their scoring ability unless something changed from last year..just my opinion.

[alexz2317]

I think Lidstrom is the best defenseman in the NHL without a doubt. The forwards you list are all great players and some of the best but I don't think any of them are the best player (or forward) in the NHL right now...just my biased opinion. Both Zetterberg and Datsyuk do definately deserve to be on the list though. Its not just being a 'scoring machine' its about a player executing impossible passes that set other players up resulting in making their linemates look better, having an accurate and hard shot, and the skating ability to maneuver past the other teams defense and make it look easy. Controlling the puck in the other teams zone for long periods of time is playing good defense. To do that night after night and have 2 or 3 point games throughout the season is a testimony to the skill of the player so I do put a lot of stock in the point race..both goals and assists.

I understand your point about Detroit playing a different system. However, regardless of how the team is built they have more goals than any other team in hockey right now. I attribute that to the depth of the team like you pointed out..having more than two great lines and many talented forwards instead of just a few. Plus they have great defensemen which the Pens seem to be lacking right now. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were very high in scoring last year..and Zetterberg was first in the playoffs. I do not think Detroit’s system hampers their scoring ability unless something changed from last year..just my opinion.
I totally agree. They make plays that most fans don't see. Defensive plays, smart passes. Detroit is the best passing team in the league. That's why other teams hate Detroit because of there puck possession skills.

[PhilRocksinOHIO.]

I voted for Datsuyk. IMO he is much more talented and athletic than Sergei Federov ever was. Just about every time he has the puck it's sure to be a Red Wings highlight. Amazing doesn't describe his talents on the ice alone.

[alexz2317]

I voted for Datsuyk. IMO he is much more talented and athletic than Sergei Federov ever was. Just about every time he has the puck it's sure to be a Red Wings highlight. Amazing doesn't describe his talents on the ice alone.
I always look forward to the power play for the Wings. You've got two amazing PP units. Datsyuk Hossa and Holmstrom. Then you've got Zetterberg, Samuellson and Franzen. You can't beat those two lines. That's why they've got the best PP in the league.

[not2loud]

You don't domnate teams by being soft. Living in Chicago we've had some soft teams. Wings very rarely can be called soft.

But hey..how about those Blackhawks?

[alexz2317]

You don't domnate teams by being soft. Living in Chicago we've had some soft teams. Wings very rarely can be called soft.

But hey..how about those Blackhawks?
Blackhawks can't seem to beat the Wings this year. 3 losses in regulation, 2 losses in OT/Shootout. And the Red Wings are definately not soft. Kronwall is an amazing open ice checker. Datsyuk is sick of the Lady Byng award so now he's getting more physical. The Red Wings play hard and rough if the other team is rough. Take a look at Wing's- Ducks games, they are playoff style games.

[not2loud]

Yeah its still shows Youth has a tough time with exp. We shall see how they handle the stretch run

[alexz2317]

Yeah its still shows Youth has a tough time with exp. We shall see how they handle the stretch run
Well that brings up a good point. Everyone was talking about how Pitt would beat Detroit in the finals last year because they were "faster" and full of youth. Well Detroit shut them out the first two games of the series. Kenny Holland knows what he is doing and how to assemble the team.

[Z_only1]

Guess who your coach came from?

San Jose seems to have been slipping as of late. Detroit is playing stronger now. Hossa is not our best player, Zetterberg is. San Jose is an awesome team, but they haven't proven themselves in the playoffs. Good luck. How did that 6-0 shellacking feel? :cool:

Try reading comprehension. The series is tied up with two remaining. Get a clue.

[Z_only1]

Hossa is NOT their best player. Not by a long shot.

Yes...I'll take "Euros who disappear when it matters" for $400, Alex. 61 points, -1 in his career in the playoffs, and that's even including last year's performance. Before that...to classify him as a "disappointment" would be an understatement of incredible proportions.

yeah HE is no matter how ya defend your position.

[alexz2317]

Try reading comprehension. The series is tied up with two remaining. Get a clue.

Uhhh I know that the series is tied, no denying that.

[snagswolf]

Crosby is a punk, nothing more. I don't care if you love him and idol him, but I don't think he is worthy until he get's an attitude adjustment since he's "The One".
Well, obviously you're just a Detroit homer, since your opinions differ than most hockey fans who have made him the leading All-Star vote-getter for three seasons running.

Welcome to reality.

[alexz2317]

Well, obviously you're just a Detroit homer, since your opinions differ than most hockey fans who have made him the leading All-Star vote-getter for three seasons running.

Welcome to reality.

Did you notice the voting scandal this year? How about they were allowed to vote more than once? So people like you with man-crushes on him spend a month or two in your basement voting for him non-stop.

[Z_only1]

Uhhh I know that the series is tied, no denying that.

Finally it sinks in after 3x +.:clap:

[snagswolf]

Did you notice the voting scandal this year? How about they were allowed to vote more than once? So people like you with man-crushes on him spend a month or two in your basement voting for him non-stop.
Which is why I mentioned the three years in a row. Because I knew whiners like you would bring up the ballot stuffing going on this year.

So he's won it the past two years, but this year it's because of ballot stuffing?

Hmm, maybe I'll start a poll of the best teams in the NHL, but I'll leave off the Wings because I personally don't like them.

Nah, I just remembered I was an adult.

[iamredbeard]

Of course Sid is the most popular. Before he was even drafted the NHL decided to make him the cover boy of the league. Some of us just don't think he is the best out there. As for forwards, I prefer the two way forwards who can play great defense and still score a lot than pure scoring beasts who defense is lacking like Oveckilin, Malkin, and Crosby. As for who I think is the best I go back to what I said earlier. I have heard coach after coach and not just Detroit coaches say that Lidstrom is the best and that it is not even that close. So I'll go along with them and say that he is the best player in the NHL.

[Beccaria]

Well, obviously you're just a Detroit homer, since your opinions differ than most hockey fans who have made him the leading All-Star vote-getter for three seasons running.

Welcome to reality.

And WHO won the last Stanley?

(Hint: it wasn't Crosby)

[alexz2317]

Which is why I mentioned the three years in a row. Because I knew whiners like you would bring up the ballot stuffing going on this year.

So he's won it the past two years, but this year it's because of ballot stuffing?

Hmm, maybe I'll start a poll of the best teams in the NHL, but I'll leave off the Wings because I personally don't like them.

Nah, I just remembered I was an adult.
Don't call me a child. The voting was skewed this year. Some Montreal fan made a script for IE that auto votes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/NHL-claims-all-star-votes-are-valid-explains-fr?urn=nhl,122914

So someone created one for Crosby.

[snagswolf]

Some of us just don't think he is the best out there.
That's obvious.

A minority opinion, but obvious you have it.

[alexz2317]

That's obvious.

A minority opinion, but obvious you have it.
We're not saying he sucks. But for all the coverage and ads and TV commercials he gets, he needs to grow up and act like a man, not a child. He is showing how immature he is this year. Yzerman never acted like that when his team was not doing too well. Crosby has the tools to be great. Maybe if he joined the Wings organization, then they can turn him into the best.

[Beccaria]

We're not saying he sucks. But for all the coverage and ads and TV commercials he gets, he needs to grow up and act like a man, not a child. He is showing how immature he is this year. Yzerman never acted like that when his team was not doing too well. Crosby has the tools to be great. Maybe if he joined the Wings organization, then they can turn him into the best.
I'll even go so far as to say that I don't ever recall Gretzky, Lemieux, or Lindross act like that either.

[snagswolf]

Don't call me a child. The voting was skewed this year. Some Montreal fan made a script for IE that auto votes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/NHL-claims-all-star-votes-are-valid-explains-fr?urn=nhl,122914

So someone created one for Crosby.
And you STILL keep ignoring the history of Crosby dominating in the All Star voting.

So what is your logic? He dominated the last two years, but this year he only got in because of ballot stuffing?

Makes no sense.

And I call you a child because you're posting like a child. Whaaaaa! I don't like Crosby so I'll make a poll of best players and won't include him!

Serious hockey fans can argue over who is the best, but anyone with any knowledge of the sport knows that Crosby is easily in the top five.

You do know that Gretzky was accused of being a whiner too, right? Are you old enough to remember that?

[snagswolf]

We're not saying he sucks. But for all the coverage and ads and TV commercials he gets, he needs to grow up and act like a man, not a child. He is showing how immature he is this year. Yzerman never acted like that when his team was not doing too well. Crosby has the tools to be great. Maybe if he joined the Wings organization, then they can turn him into the best.
That's pretty funny. A child whining about Crosby.

Crosby has captained his team to the finals at the age of 20. Most hockey players haven't even joined the NHL by that age. Not only did he lead his team as captian, he tied for the lead in playoff points.

Compare those acheivements to what you're doing here, and you'll see what a joke you are.

[snagswolf]

I'll even go so far as to say that I don't ever recall Gretzky, Lemieux, or Lindross act like that either.
I recall quite clearly Gretzky being labelled as a whiner, just like Crosby is now.

Lemieux got some of that too, because he was constantly bitching about all the grabbing and holding.

[snagswolf]

And WHO won the last Stanley?

(Hint: it wasn't Crosby)
So the 'Best Player in the League' can only be from the team that won the last Cup?

Wow.

[alexz2317]

That's pretty funny. A child whining about Crosby.

Crosby has captained his team to the finals at the age of 20. Most hockey players haven't even joined the NHL by that age. Not only did he lead his team as captian, he tied for the lead in playoff points.

Compare those acheivements to what you're doing here, and you'll see what a joke you are.

Whoa, personal attacks? I haven't attacked you buddy. And most players haven't even joined the NHL by the age of 20? Yzerman was 18, had 39 goals and 87 points in his rookie season. And he was the youngest to make the all-star team at 18 in his rookie season. All while being professional and humble. No Diving, no cheapshots, no WHINING!

[alexz2317]

Snagswolf hates me :((:((:((

[snagswolf]

And most players haven't even joined the NHL by the age of 20? Yzerman was 18, had 39 goals and 87 points in his rookie season.
So you pointing out ONE player disproves my claim that MOST players haven't joined the NHL by 20?

:confused:

[snagswolf]

I don't hate alex. I pity the fool.

[alexz2317]

So you pointing out ONE player disproves my claim that MOST players haven't joined the NHL by 20?

:confused:
Give me some time, then I can give you other players in the NHL by 20. I'm swamped at work, taking a 5 minute break. But i'll list them.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Whoa, personal attacks? I haven't attacked you buddy. And most players haven't even joined the NHL by the age of 20? Yzerman was 18, had 39 goals and 87 points in his rookie season. And he was the youngest to make the all-star team at 18 in his rookie season. All while being professional and humble. No Diving, no cheapshots, no WHINING!

Youngest captain ever, and definitely youngest captain to make the Finals.

Crosby's doing SOMETHING right.

[iamredbeard]

Youngest captain ever, and definitely youngest captain to make the Finals.

Crosby's doing SOMETHING right.

Yeah, he's doing really well. Before he even entered the NHL he was said to be the next great and he is living up to the hype. Some of us just don't think he is currently the best player in the NHL. His behavior at the SCF Press Conferences was really bad. But he'll mature as he gets older. He's something special, some of just don't think that he is the best that the game has to offer.

[alexz2317]

Youngest captain ever, and definitely youngest captain to make the Finals.

Crosby's doing SOMETHING right.
I'm not dissing his play or his skills. I just don't like his demeanor on the ice when he's frustrated. A captain shouldn't act like that.

[alexz2317]

Yeah, he's doing really well. Before he even entered the NHL he was said to be the next great and he is living up to the hype. Some of us just don't think he is currently the best player in the NHL. His behavior at the SCF Press Conferences was really bad. But he'll mature as he gets older. He's something special, some of just don't think that he is the best that the game has to offer.
Thank you! Exactly how I feel. He never gave the Wings credit during the finals. He was acting like a baby. Hossa gave the Wings credit when he spoke at the press conferences

[FactHunter]

Pavel Datsyuk is the complete package. He can score, he can pass. He's got great moves. He can hit, just search youtube for Datsyuk hits. He can play defense. He is always at the top of the list for takeaways.

This is why I voted for him. If I was putting together a team from scratch from today's players, Datsyuk would be my first pick. If Lidstrom was a few years - heck, even a couple of years - younger, I would go with him.

Heck, maybe even at his current age!

[FactHunter]

And you STILL keep ignoring the history of Crosby dominating in the All Star voting.


If All-Star voting was any kind of metric, Chicago and Anaheim would be absolutely crushing the West, with Montreal and Pittsburgh dominating the East. In the real world, however, Chicago is number four and Anaheim sixth in the West, Montreal is fourth in the East and Pittsburgh is (give me a bit of time here to look far enough down in the rankings) tenth, and currently would not even make the playoffs.

Are you seriously going to claim that leading the All-Star voting means, well, anything?

[alexz2317]

This is why I voted for him. If I was putting together a team from scratch from today's players, Datsyuk would be my first pick. If Lidstrom was a few years - heck, even a couple of years - younger, I would go with him.

Heck, maybe even at his current age!
And look how far back in the Draft the Wings got him at, 6th or 7th round.

[alexz2317]

Who cares about the All-Star voting?!? If that was any kind of metric, Chicago and Anaheim would be absolutely crushing the West, with Montreal and Pittsburgh dominating the East. In the real world, however, Chicago is number four and Anaheim sixth in the West, Montreal is fourth in the East and Pittsburgh is (give me a bit of time here to look far enough down in the rankings) tenth, and currently would not even make the playoffs.

Are you seriously going to claim that leading the All-Star voting means, well, anything?
No kidding, out of the top 3 teams in the league, none of them are starting the All-Star game. I know that only Lidstrom and Datsyuk made the reserves. I know one or two from SJ made the reserves also.

[FactHunter]

No kidding, out of the top 3 teams in the league, none of them are starting the All-Star game. I know that only Lidstrom and Datsyuk made the reserves. I know one or two from SJ made the reserves also.

Yes, Joe Thornton and Dan Boyle, and well-deserved for both of them.

I have tickets to this Saturday's Sharks-Wings game. :D:D:D^100

[alexz2317]

Yes, Joe Thornton and Dan Boyle, and well-deserved for both of them.

I have tickets to this Saturday's Sharks-Wings game. :D:D:D^100
Nice, that will be an awesome game.

[iamredbeard]

And look how far back in the Draft the Wings got him at, 6th or 7th round.

Datsyuk in the 6th round, Zetterberg, in the 7th and our best prospect, we got in the ninth round. Everyone knew Crosby and Malkin were going to be stars, but Detroit routinely finds their future stars out of nowhere.

[alexz2317]

Datsyuk in the 6th round, Zetterberg, in the 7th and our best prospect, we got in the ninth round. Everyone knew Crosby and Malkin were going to be stars, but Detroit routinely finds their future stars out of nowhere.
That is why they are a model franchise. They have the best recruits and they treat everyone that works in the Red Wings organization like family. After Jiri Fischers accident on the bench, did they send him back to wherever he came from? No. They gave him a scouting job. Classiest organization is sports.

[iamredbeard]

That is why they are a model franchise. They have the best recruits and they treat everyone that works in the Red Wings organization like family. After Jiri Fischers accident on the bench, did they send him back to wherever he came from? No. They gave him a scouting job. Classiest organization is sports.

While all that is true, the real story about the Wings drafting success, how they always seem to find diamonds in the rough is because of Hakan Anderson.

[alexz2317]

While all that is true, the real story about the Wings drafting success, how they always seem to find diamonds in the rough is because of Hakan Anderson.
Definately. He is the best. Isn't he the head scout for Europe?

[iamredbeard]

We all know that wiki is not the most reliable source out there but they have a page on Hakan Andersson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A5kan_Andersson_(ice_hockey)

[iamredbeard]

Definately. He is the best. Isn't he the head scout for Europe?

Yep, his title with the Red Wings is director of European Scouting. Holland has said over and over that Hakan is more responsible for the Wings success than anyone else.

[alexz2317]

Yep, his title with the Red Wings is director of European Scouting. Holland has said over and over that Hakan is more responsible for the Wings success than anyone else.
For sure. And he is. Without him, we probably wouldn't have Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Also, who develops these players?

[JediMindTrick]

What? No goalies on the list????

The list was intended to bash on Sidney Crosby, not actually determine who the best player is.

[alexz2317]

The list was intended to bash on Sidney Crosby, not actually determine who the best player is.
I'm not bashing Crosby. He is an amazing player. But he is letting his emotions get the best of him. We can discuss all the players on here and what they are doing right or wrong.

[iamredbeard]

For sure. And he is. Without him, we probably wouldn't have Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Also, who develops these players?

And Franzen, Filppula, Holmstrom, Hudler and Knonwall. Not to mention Ericsson who ever things is going to be a stud of a defenseman.

[alexz2317]

And Franzen, Filppula, Holmstrom, Hudler and Knonwall. Not to mention Ericsson who ever things is going to be a stud of a defenseman.
They need to let him play with Lidstrom for a bit so he can learn from the best. But look at our great players in Grand Rapids right now. Can't forget about Helm and his great play in the playoffs.

[iamredbeard]

I'm not bashing Crosby. He is an amazing player. But he is letting his emotions get the best of him. We can discuss all the players on here and what they are doing right or wrong.

He looks foolish when he lets his emotions get the best of him, but he's still young. That won't happen as he matures.

[alexz2317]

He looks foolish when he lets his emotions get the best of him, but he's still young. That won't happen as he matures.
It makes me wonder if Mario is having talks with him about this.

[iamredbeard]

They need to let him play with Lidstrom for a bit so he can learn from the best. But look at our great players in Grand Rapids right now. Can't forget about Helm and his great play in the playoffs.

The problem is that we are so loaded with defenseman that we don't have room for him and Holland isn't going to bring him up just to sit on the ice. He needs the ice time. Originally the plan was to have him paired with Kronwall, but that plan went up in flames when we traded for and resigned Stuart.

[alexz2317]

The problem is that we are so loaded with defenseman that we don't have room for him and Holland isn't going to bring him up just to sit on the ice. He needs the ice time. Originally the plan was to have him paired with Kronwall, but that plan went up in flames when we traded for and resigned Stuart.
I was glad when Stuart signed. I was having a bad feeling about that.

[iamredbeard]

It makes me wonder if Mario is having talks with him about this.

I think that is a given. I think there were talks about the SCF. What didn't help is that he was basically parroting the head coach. When your an upcoming superstar and the captain of your team and you hear your coach whine and complain and refuse to give credit to the other team. It's easy to follow his example and to do the same. My personal feelings is that Hossa saw the way Crosby and his coach dealt with SCF adversity and said I am getting out of here. I don't know if that is true or not, but that's the feeling that I get.

[alexz2317]

I think that is a given. I think there were talks about the SCF. What didn't help is that he was basically parroting the head coach. When your an upcoming superstar and the captain of your team and you hear your coach whine and complain and refuse to give credit to the other team. It's easy to follow his example and to do the same. My personal feelings is that Hossa saw the way Crosby and his coach dealt with SCF adversity and said I am getting out of here. I don't know if that is true or not, but that's the feeling that I get.
I heard this rumor back in the summer. The rumor was both Babcock and Chelios told Hossa during the handshake that they would love for him to come to Detroit.

[iamredbeard]

I was glad when Stuart signed. I was having a bad feeling about that.

See they wanted to keep Lidstrom and Rafalski together and have Kronwall mentor Ericsson, but then they saw hwo well Stuart and Knronwall plaed together so for now they are keep him at GR where he'll get plenty of ice time. They don't want to bring him up if it means he'll usually be a healthy scratch or be play with the third pairing and get little ice time. I am fine with that. I don't want to see him paired to much with Lilja and pick up on his bad habits.

[alexz2317]

See they wanted to keep Lidstrom and Rafalski together and have Kronwall mentor Ericsson, but then they saw hwo well Stuart and Knronwall plaed together so for now they are keep him at GR where he'll get plenty of ice time. They don't want to bring him up if it means he'll usually be a healthy scratch or be play with the third pairing and get little ice time. I am fine with that. I don't want to see him paired to much with Lilja and pick up on his bad habits.
Yeah Lilja scares me sometimes. Are you watching the game right now?

[iamredbeard]

I heard this rumor back in the summer. The rumor was both Babcock and Chelios told Hossa during the handshake that they would love for him to come to Detroit.

Well there is something to that to, but it would take more than that for him to come here. I hate to say this, but I hope it's just a one year thing. Zetterberg is our #1 priority, and I given a choice I would rather have Franzen than Hossa.

[alexz2317]

Well there is something to that to, but it would take more than that for him to come here. I hate to say this, but I hope it's just a one year thing. Zetterberg is our #1 priority, and I given a choice I would rather have Franzen than Hossa.
Zetterberg is definately the #1 priority right now. And if Franzen stays consistent then yes we should keep him over Hossa. Depends on how much Franzen wants.

[iamredbeard]

Yeah Lilja scares me sometimes. Are you watching the game right now?

Yeppers.

[alexz2317]

Yeppers.
Im watching it online since im at work. Horribly quality though. Hopefully the Wings don't take the Stars too lightly and play a bad game. They should win easily.

[iamredbeard]

Zetterberg is definately the #1 priority right now. And if Franzen stays consistent then yes we should keep him over Hossa. Depends on how much Franzen wants.

What I am hearing is that Franzen will want around 5 mil (going rate for a power forward) while Hossa will want more than 7 per year.

[alexz2317]

What I am hearing is that Franzen will want around 5 mil (going rate for a power forward) while Hossa will want more than 7 per year.
Well and Hossa is deserving of that, but Detroit really doesn't have the money for that. It'd be crazy if Holland could work it out to keep them all.

[snagswolf]

If All-Star voting was any kind of metric, Chicago and Anaheim would be absolutely crushing the West, with Montreal and Pittsburgh dominating the East. In the real world, however, Chicago is number four and Anaheim sixth in the West, Montreal is fourth in the East and Pittsburgh is (give me a bit of time here to look far enough down in the rankings) tenth, and currently would not even make the playoffs.
The All-Star vote is for individual players, not teams.

Are you seriously going to claim that leading the All-Star voting means, well, anything?
Yes, I'm claiming that most hockey fans think he's the best player. That's why he leads the All-Star voting every year.

You may not agree that's he's the best. That's fine. I'm just pointing out that many hockey fans disagree with you. Of course, unless you can prove they're all voting for him because they like his hair, or his smile, or something like that.

[snagswolf]

The list was intended to bash on Sidney Crosby, not actually determine who the best player is.
Bingo.

[FactHunter]

Yeah Lilja scares me sometimes. Are you watching the game right now?

I am - and Datsyuk just showed why I'd pick him number one. The best defensive forward just juked past a defender, and scored while being hooked and with a defender on the ice in front of him to block low shots - oh, yeah, and the goalie too.

[FactHunter]

Yes, I'm claiming that most hockey fans think he's the best player. That's why he leads the All-Star voting every year.

Don't you think it's just a wee bit of a stretch to believe that hockey fans think that all of the very best players, all of the All Star starters - that's 100% of them - come from just four teams?

You may not agree that's he's the best. That's fine. I'm just pointing out that many hockey fans disagree with you. Of course, unless you can prove they're all voting for him because they like his hair, or his smile, or something like that.

I never said that he's not the "best", as that's a pretty meaningless descriptor. What I did say is that if I were putting together a team, Datsyuk would be my first choice. But to believe that the All-Star voting proves anything other than a few cities are really, really good about getting out the vote is, again, a stretch worthy of an All-Star goalie.

[snagswolf]

I'm not bashing Crosby.
I will not add Sidney Crosby because he needs to grow up.
A cheap-shot artists doesn't deserve to be on this list.

Okay, in the last month, Crosby was a third man in, he punched the guy on the head with his gloves on from behind. He punched him in the balls. Then against Florida, he jumps the other player off the face-off with his head down waiting for the draw. Why no suspension? Then you get Avery's suspension for a comment about a girlfriend and another player. The league protects Crosby. They make him out to be the best player ever. He isn't the best player on his team (Malkin). Crosby has the skills to be one of the best, but his temper and his emotions always get the best of him. He was a baby during the finals against Detroit.
Crosby is definitely showing his true age and his temper. A leader doesn't take 19 minutes in penalty minutes to "spark" the team.
Crosby is a punk, nothing more. I don't care if you love him and idol him, but I don't think he is worthy until he get's an attitude adjustment since he's "The One".
rosby- 0 games for a low blow and a sucker punch to the back of a defenseless players head. While another guy was swinging away at him. He should have gotten a 3rd man in. Then you got that "fight" between him and the Panther. The guy was looking down waiting for the faceoff and that punk Crosby jumps on him. I've got videos to prove it. But why does Avery get suspended for something like that and Crosby gets nothing? Crosby is a goon, a cry baby, and a diver. Nothing more.
But for all the coverage and ads and TV commercials he gets, he needs to grow up and act like a man, not a child. He is showing how immature he is this year.
:)):)):)):)):)):)):))

No, you're not bashing Crosby.

Since all you're doing is whining about Crosby in this thread, it's obviously the reason you started it.

I'm beginning to think that Crosby stole your girlfriend. She's calling out "Sidney!!" when she's in bed with you, isn't she?

:)):)):))

[snagswolf]

Don't you think it's just a wee bit of a stretch to believe that hockey fans think that all of the very best players, all of the All Star starters - that's 100% of them - come from just four teams?
Everyone agrees that this year is an abberation, with the Montreal fans wanting their team in there for their All-Star game.

Which is why, (for the fifth time - can't you people read?) I'm pointing out that Crosby was the leading vote getter the last two years also, so him leading it this year is nothing out of the ordinary.

Please say you understand. It's not that difficult.

I never said that he's not the "best", as that's a pretty meaningless descriptor. What I did say is that if I were putting together a team, Datsyuk would be my first choice. But to believe that the All-Star voting proves anything other than a few cities are really, really good about getting out the vote is, again, a stretch worthy of an All-Star goalie.
I'm not having a problem with anyone not thinking Crosby is the best. I'm pointing out that the OP of this thread obviously started this thread to whine about Crosby, not to find out who's the best player.

Because any knowledgeable fan knows that Crosby is at least in the top five in the league.

Which obviously excludes the OP.

[alexz2317]

:)):)):)):)):)):)):))

No, you're not bashing Crosby.

Since all you're doing is whining about Crosby in this thread, it's obviously the reason you started it.

I'm beginning to think that Crosby stole your girlfriend. She's calling out "Sidney!!" when she's in bed with you, isn't she?

:)):)):))
I don't have a girlfriend first of all. Second, i'm sick of him being a poster boy when he isn't even the best on his own team. I started this thread to see who's the best so far this year. And not everybody has the same definition of the word best. It could be leader in points or best overall play. But that was immature and classless what you said there. You should also grow up.

[alexz2317]

Snagswolf is a bandwagon Penguin fan. Plain and simple.

[alexz2317]

Isn't it great?

[iamredbeard]

Not only IMO the best player in the game is listed as an option. But you listed Kane and I don't think he is even Chicago's best player.

[alexz2317]

Not only IMO the best player in the game is listed as an option. But you listed Kane and I don't think he is even Chicago's best player.

I think he is. Toews isn't that great.

[iamredbeard]

I think he is. Toews isn't that great.

From the games that I have seen Chicago play. Which are only the ones where they play the Wings. :razz: I have been more impressed with Toews than Kane. But that's just my take. Put both of them one a 2 on 1 against Lidstrom and he will make both of them look stupid. :cool:

[alexz2317]

From the games that I have seen Chicago play. Which are only the ones where they play the Wings. :razz: I have been more impressed with Toews than Kane. But that's just my take. Put both of them one a 2 on 1 against Lidstrom and he will make both of them look stupid. :cool:

Well because Lidstrom is THE greatest.

[iamredbeard]

Well because Lidstrom is THE greatest.

Which is why I think Lidstrom is the best player of today, even though he has never been a Hart Finalist.

[alexz2317]

Which is why I think Lidstrom is the best player of today, even though he has never been a Hart Finalist.

I've been hearing more and more arguments why he should be a Hart Finalist. He deserves it.

[iamredbeard]

I've been hearing more and more arguments why he should be a Hart Finalist. He deserves it.

There was alot of talk about him getting it, but in the end he was left out. What makes the Hart different than a lot of sports it's which player is most valuable to his team, not which plays is most valuable in the league. An argument could be made that the Wings are so stocked with high end talent that they don't have a singular player that is indispensable to them, The same cannot be said for other teams. That is also the reason why goalies seem to dominate the finalist.

[alexz2317]

There was alot of talk about him getting it, but in the end he was left out. What makes the Hart different than a lot of sports it's which player is most valuable to his team, not which plays is most valuable in the league. An argument could be made that the Wings are so stocked with high end talent that they don't have a singular player that is indispensable to them, The same cannot be said for other teams. That is also the reason why goalies seem to dominate the finalist.

Well, our goalies won't be getting that this year! They've been terrible so far.

[iamredbeard]

Well, our goalies won't be getting that this year! They've been terrible so far.

Our goalies never get any Hart mention.

[Z_only1]

http://www.bp***.org/files/page0_blog_entry1_3.gif

image violation bro, 59k.

[snagswolf]

I don't have a girlfriend first of all.
Maybe you have a man-crush on Sidney then, and this is your way of denying it.

Second, i'm sick of him being a poster boy when he isn't even the best on his own team. I started this thread to see who's the best so far this year. And not everybody has the same definition of the word best. It could be leader in points or best overall play. But that was immature and classless what you said there. You should also grow up.
All I hear is Whaaaaa, whaaaaaa, whaaaaaa!

[Dr. Funkenstein]

image violation bro, 59k.

And then you quoted it :naughty:

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I don't have a girlfriend first of all. Second, i'm sick of him being a poster boy when he isn't even the best on his own team. I started this thread to see who's the best so far this year. And not everybody has the same definition of the word best. It could be leader in points or best overall play. But that was immature and classless what you said there. You should also grow up.

:think:

I'm DYING to know who the best player on the Pens is if it isn't Crosby.

[scmarcos]

Malkin is not better than Crosby, if that's what you're implying.

[snagswolf]

When comparing Crosby and Malkin, I think of them being almost equal, but having slighting different primary strengths.

Crosby's primary strength is in his playmaking - his ability to hold onto the puck and then find the open man. But he is also very good at shooting when he actually does take the shot.

Malkin's primary ability is goal scoring, but he is certainly also very talented in carrying the puck and finding his teammates.

Both of them can play very good defense, and if you think I'm wrong, you haven't been watching enough Pens games.

Bringing Ovechkin into the discussion, he's more like Malkin than Crosby, and is a better goal scorer than Malkin is. However, he's yet to show that he has the vision to be able to know where his teammates are, and set them up. And one can argue, since he isn't a center, that's not his job. But when figuring out who the 'best' is, making your teammates better is certainly one of the criteria that should be used to determine that.

Back to Crosby vs Malkin. Going forward, both players still haven't finished developing physically, and it's going to be amazing to see what their talent can do in larger bodies. Since Malkin is more of a beanpole with a big frame with the potential to REALLY develop into a horse, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually improves more than Crosby does in the next five years.

BTW, the real discussion on this topic is only between Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby. All the rest are wannabes.

[alexz2317]

:think:

I'm DYING to know who the best player on the Pens is if it isn't Crosby.

Malkin is way better than Crosby

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Malkin is way better than Crosby

So what you're saying is crack is legal in Michigan?

[Dr. Funkenstein]

When comparing Crosby and Malkin, I think of them being almost equal, but having slighting different primary strengths.

Crosby's primary strength is in his playmaking - his ability to hold onto the puck and then find the open man. But he is also very good at shooting when he actually does take the shot.

Malkin's primary ability is goal scoring, but he is certainly also very talented in carrying the puck and finding his teammates.

Both of them can play very good defense, and if you think I'm wrong, you haven't been watching enough Pens games.

I have seen plenty of Pens games. Both have the ABILITY to play good defense, and Crosby is finally starting to USE it, but Malkin doesn't give a rat's ass what happens in his own end. The classic Malkin moment last year was during the Flyers' series...just hanging out by center ice, waiting for someone to get him the puck, which they do...and he blasts one by Biron. He IS among the best snipers in hockey though...I won't debate THAT.

Bringing Ovechkin into the discussion, he's more like Malkin than Crosby, and is a better goal scorer than Malkin is. However, he's yet to show that he has the vision to be able to know where his teammates are, and set them up. And one can argue, since he isn't a center, that's not his job. But when figuring out who the 'best' is, making your teammates better is certainly one of the criteria that should be used to determine that.

Ovechkin is a goal scorer. Jari Kurri with a mean streak, if you will. He's willing to backcheck if he thinks it'll give him an opportunity to score. Setting up his teammates is a secondary concern, and that's how his team wants it.

Back to Crosby vs Malkin. Going forward, both players still haven't finished developing physically, and it's going to be amazing to see what their talent can do in larger bodies. Since Malkin is more of a beanpole with a big frame with the potential to REALLY develop into a horse, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually improves more than Crosby does in the next five years.

I think Malkin lacks the DESIRE to be a horse. I really do. I think he's content with being an offensive force.

BTW, the real discussion on this topic is only between Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby. All the rest are wannabes.

Well now you're just being short-sighted. Lidstrom has been the best d-man in the league for years now, and is as scary on the power play as anyone in hockey. And since you know what they say about offense vs. defense...why would you discount the best d-man in the sport?

[alexz2317]

So what you're saying is crack is legal in Michigan?

I don't do drugs ass. Don't accuse me of something so asinine. I give up trying to prove my point about Crosby because all of you are drinking the Bettman kool-aid about him.

[snagswolf]

I have seen plenty of Pens games. Both have the ABILITY to play good defense, and Crosby is finally starting to USE it, but Malkin doesn't give a rat's ass what happens in his own end. The classic Malkin moment last year was during the Flyers' series...just hanging out by center ice, waiting for someone to get him the puck, which they do...and he blasts one by Biron. He IS among the best snipers in hockey though...I won't debate THAT.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Malkin is constantly back in his own end chasing down the puck.

And you're not remembering that 'classic' moment correctly. Malkin wasn't just 'hanging out by center ice'. He was trying to score, and was driven into the back boards by a Flyer. He lay stunned on the ice for a moment, got himself back up, and began to make his way back towards the other end. But on his way back, the Flyers turned the puck over, and the pass came out to Malkin, who was all alone at center ice.

Here, refresh your memory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15MIy6jKeVE

Ovechkin is a goal scorer. Jari Kurri with a mean streak, if you will. He's willing to backcheck if he thinks it'll give him an opportunity to score. Setting up his teammates is a secondary concern, and that's how his team wants it.
Setting up your teammates will increase your own chances of scoring. If a defenseman knows you're not likely to pass, they will concentrate on defending you.

As good as Ovechkin is, he could be much more dangerous if he used his linemates more. Personally, as a Pens fan, I'm glad he doesn't have that vision.

I think Malkin lacks the DESIRE to be a horse. I really do. I think he's content with being an offensive force.
By 'horse' a meant a big strong guy. Malkin gets knocked off the puck often with hard checks. Add about 30-40 pounds to his frame, and he's going to be knocking others down.

And I disagree that he's content with just his offense. That's one of the things that's surprised me about him - his desire to play and play hard. I see no indication at all that he's content to let his defensive play be lacking.

Well now you're just being short-sighted. Lidstrom has been the best d-man in the league for years now, and is as scary on the power play as anyone in hockey. And since you know what they say about offense vs. defense...why would you discount the best d-man in the sport?
Lidstrom scored just 10 goals last year and is on the downside of his career. And 5 of those goals came on the powerplay, so I don't really see him being that 'scary'.

IMO, unless you're an offensive talent like Orr was, you can't compare the talents of offensive players to defensive players. Defensive players can't single-handedly dominate games like offensive players can. Lidstrom can have the best game of his career, and not allow any shots while he's out there, and his team could still lose the game. On the other hand, an offensive player can put up 4 goals, and 3 assists, and he's pretty much assured his team of a victory.

Also the fact that Lidstrom benefits greatly from playing in the Detroit defensive system that the entire team plays. Put Ovechkin on any team in the league, and he's going to score a lot of goals. Put Lidstrom on the Islanders, and see how well he does.

[snagswolf]

I don't do drugs ass. Don't accuse me of something so asinine. I give up trying to prove my point about Crosby because all of you are drinking the Bettman kool-aid about him.
Of course. Everyone's wrong and you're right. :rolleyes:

And the only 'point' you have proven about Crosby is that you don't like him.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I don't do drugs ass. Don't accuse me of something so asinine.

Relax, big fella...I'm kidding.

Watch it with the name-calling, though. Someone else might report you for that kind of thing.

I give up trying to prove my point about Crosby because all of you are drinking the Bettman kool-aid about him.

I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid. I don't even like him. I voted for Datsyuk and Lidstrom. But he's light years ahead of Malkin. Even a hater should be able to see that.

[alexz2317]

Of course. Everyone's wrong and you're right. :rolleyes:

And the only 'point' you have proven about Crosby is that you don't like him.

If you watched that video, than point about him being immature and unable to control his emotions would have sunken in to your head.

[snagswolf]

But he's light years ahead of Malkin.
I won't argue if someone claims that Crosby is better than Malkin, but 'light years'?

Sorry, but the stats don't show that, and my eyes, which have seen practically every NHL game they've played, certainly haven't seen that.

Crosby and Malkin are 1a and 1b on the Pens. Slot them in any way you want, but one isn't dominating over the other.

[scmarcos]

Malkin is way better than Crosby

In what way? The only thing that Malkin is better at is "maybe" goal scoring. Crosby is a better skater, passer, defender, makes better decisions with the puck, is better on the shootout and break aways, and is 1,000 times better on the face. Malkin being so terrible on the face off takes him out of alot of centering situations. Not to mention Crosby does all this while carrying the league on his back, which is not an easy task no matter how wrong you think the league is for making him the centerpiece.

There is really no comparison, unless of course you rarely watch the Penguins and are only going off the scoring race and media controversy.

[snagswolf]

If you watched that video, than point about him being immature and unable to control his emotions would have sunken in to your head.
I don't have to watch a video. I've seen every NHL game he's played.

And if you would have watched his entire career up to this point, you would understand that a few isolated incident don't define a player.

Crosby 'controls his emotions' night in and night out playing in the NHL. Jealous losers like you glom onto the few times he hasn't, and try to paint him as if he always does that.

[scmarcos]

I don't have to watch a video. I've seen every NHL game he's played.

And if you would have watched his entire career up to this point, you would understand that a few isolated incident don't define a player.

Crosby 'controls his emotions' night in and night out playing in the NHL. Jealous losers like you glom onto the few times he hasn't, and try to paint him as if he always does that.

This I can agree with. A holier than thou Detroit fan who thinks his **** doesn't stink because he's a Red Wings fan.

[scmarcos]

If you want to see someone who can't control their emotions, watch the Penguins play the Capitals tonight. This game will feature a jealous vagina by the name of Alex Ovechkin who will spend his whole night looking for openings to take runs at and cheap shot Evgeni Malkin.

[snagswolf]

This game will feature a jealous vagina by the name of Alex Ovechkin who will spend his whole night looking for openings to take runs at and cheap shot Evgeni Malkin.
That is fascinating to watch, isnt' it? There's got to be something behind it that's not being talked about.

Ovechkin is normally a hard hitter, but he seems to be drawn to hitting Malkin like a moth to a flame.

The funniest time was when he tried to take Malkiin's head off as Malkin came out from behind the net, and Malkin pulled up and Ovechkin went headfirst in the boards.

[iamredbeard]

Since we are primarily talking about forwards. I'll go back to what I said earlier. I would rather have an all around player than a scoring machine. Sure I'm an unapologetic homer. But think a player who is one your best scorers and also one of your best defensive forwards is better than a pure scoring machine. When you got Datsyuk and Zetterberg who are your at the top of your offensive producers and they are also on your first team powerkill. Well you got something special and I would rather have them than a pure scoring machine who has adequate defense.

Having said all that I am anxious to see how Crosby progresses. He is obvious a great talent and the league made him the leagues poster bow before he was even drafted. When I think of him I also think of Yzerman. Although he has had more early success because he has a better team around him. At their time they were both of youngest captain in the history of the league In Yzerman's early years he was a scoring machine. Then around 8 or 9 years into his career Bowman came to town and convinced him to work on his defense and he became one of the best two way forwards in the game and I think during that time he was a better player than he was when he was a scoring machine. If Cosby became a solid 2 way forward he could become even better.


Having said all that I still think Lidstrom is the best player in the game. I understand that a defenseman cannot take a game over like a forward can by scoring a hatrick, or dominate a game by shutting out the opponent like a goalie can do. I stand by what I have heard coaches say and it is not only Detroit coaches. I have heard many of them say that Lidstrom is the best player in the league and it's not even that close. I also must admit that Lidstrom is not even my favorite player.

[iamredbeard]

If you want to see someone who can't control their emotions, watch the Penguins play the Capitals tonight. This game will feature a jealous vagina by the name of Alex Ovechkin who will spend his whole night looking for openings to take runs at and cheap shot Evgeni Malkin.

That game is the warmer up. If you wanna watch a team take runs wait for the 10PM game. :twisted:

[scmarcos]

Crosby has said that growing up he was a huge fan of Yzerman. Maybe we'll see him go that route. I don't think you watch enough Pens games to make a very informed decision though. Crosby plays good defense, he is not shabby at all.

[scmarcos]

That game is the warmer up. If you wanna watch a team take runs wait for the 10PM game. :twisted:

Eh, we had the Flyers last night. That is a dirty team as well. Godard whooped Cote, and Bissonette beat up Asham (I think my not too sure though). We also played a trap most of the game and the execution was great. Moving Matt Cooke to the top line might be just what we needed. They need that grit to protect our stars. Crosby - Dupuis - Satan is a pretty freaking soft line.

[iamredbeard]

Crosby has said that growing up he was a huge fan of Yzerman. Maybe we'll see him go that route. I don't think you watch enough Pens games to make a very informed decision though. Crosby plays good defense, he is not shabby at all.

Your right I don't watch them play much. Don't have the opportunity. He might be horrendous at defense but he's not great either. I don't recall him being a member of the PK team consideration of Selke. But unlike Alex, I don't hate the guy. As I have said he is still young. My biggest complaint against him is how he handled himself during the SCF press conferences, but again I attribute much of that to being young and following his coaches lead. As he matures, I think he comes off the interviews better and not appear to be such a poor sport. Unlike Alex, I have no ill feelings towards Crosby. I save that for the Ducks and Claude Lemieux if he ends up getting called up.

[iamredbeard]

Eh, we had the Flyers last night. That is a dirty team as well. Godard whooped Cote, and Bissonette beat up Asham (I think my not too sure though). We also played a trap most of the game and the execution was great. Moving Matt Cooke to the top line might be just what we needed. They need that grit to protect our stars. Crosby - Dupuis - Satan is a pretty freaking soft line.

If your star playing receives a lot of cheap shots then you need to put someone on that line to stick up for your star and still score. That is what I saw first hand in Detroit. Detroit always put someone with Yzerman who wasn't afraid to drop his gloves and at the same time being a scoring threat. No one did that better than Shanny. The league is different now though. It not needed as much. The Wings top players of today handle themself and don't need someone out there to drop the gloves at a moments notice.

[grbennett]

That game is the warmer up. If you wanna watch a team take runs wait for the 10PM game. :twisted:

The Wings deserve to get run for refusing to carry a heavyweight enforcer.

[gonavy]

I voted other and here is why. Best goal scorer Alexander Olvechkin, without question. Best OVERALL player, again without question, Pavel Datsyuk.

Sounds kinda funny coming from a true blue Penguins fan huh?

[iamredbeard]

The Wings deserve to get run for refusing to carry a heavyweight enforcer.

The Wings hold their own. The Ducks don't beat up on us. The Ducks just like to run everyone. It's who they are and its why the lead the league in penalty minutes and in fighting majors. They are just a bunch of goons.

[iamredbeard]

I voted other and here is why. Best goal scorer Alexander Olvechkin, without question. Best OVERALL player, again without question, Pavel Datsyuk.

Sounds kinda funny coming from a true blue Penguins fan huh?

So so you have something for the guy that dominates the Lady Byng Award. ;)

[grbennett]

The Wings hold their own. The Ducks don't beat up on us. The Ducks just like to run everyone. It's who they are and its why the lead the league in penalty minutes and in fighting majors. They are just a bunch of goons.

Philly leads in fighting majors. I think they have three individual players with more fights than the Red Wings team. Vancouver leads the West in fights.

[iamredbeard]

Philly leads in fighting majors. I think they have three individual players with more fights than the Red Wings team. Vancouver leads the West in fights.

Then I stand corrected. I thought once again Anaheim led everyone in fighting majors, but indeed I was wrong.

[alexz2317]

Then I stand corrected. I thought once again Anaheim led everyone in fighting majors, but indeed I was wrong.

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they are a dirty team.

[scmarcos]

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they are a dirty team.

Is there anyone who plays for or roots for another team that meets your standards?

[alexz2317]

Is there anyone who plays for or roots for another team that meets your standards?

Yes. Boston, Chicago, New York, Buffalo, Montreal, Calgary, and others. Are you going to jump on me every time I state that I don't like someone or something? Anaheim is just a dirty team. That's why they lost to Dallas in the playoffs last year. They took wayyyy too man penalties.

[scmarcos]

Most of there fans are bandwagon fans. Where were they when Boston was terrible?

I thought you meant that.

[alexz2317]

I thought you meant that.

Boston is playing great hockey right now. There fans are still bandwagon fans.

[FactHunter]

I voted other and here is why. Best goal scorer Alexander Olvechkin, without question. Best OVERALL player, again without question, Pavel Datsyuk.


One way to answer the question of who is "best", is who would you draft first of existing players if you wanted the best team today?

Today, Datsyuk. I can't see how it's even close, with the possible exception of Lidstrom.
5 years from now? Crosby? Quite possibly - but not today.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I won't argue if someone claims that Crosby is better than Malkin, but 'light years'?

Sorry, but the stats don't show that, and my eyes, which have seen practically every NHL game they've played, certainly haven't seen that.

Crosby and Malkin are 1a and 1b on the Pens. Slot them in any way you want, but one isn't dominating over the other.

Crosby's much more of a leader than Malkin is...that's why I threw in the light years thing.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Eh, we had the Flyers last night. That is a dirty team as well. Godard whooped Cote, and Bissonette beat up Asham (I think my not too sure though). We also played a trap most of the game and the execution was great. Moving Matt Cooke to the top line might be just what we needed. They need that grit to protect our stars. Crosby - Dupuis - Satan is a pretty freaking soft line.

I haven't seen any Flyers dirtiness this year. And Bissonette didn't beat up Asham...they danced for a minute then went down because neither could get a decent arm free. I didn't see Cote/Goddard, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cote got beat up.

[scmarcos]

Bissonnette vs. Asham (please take note of the short lefts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH0QHG6dIZI

Godard vs. HOte

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xb-7BYgSDE&feature=related

[alexz2317]

Detroit needs to bring Downey up. How much worse can he do than Maltby. Downey at least fights and hits. He brings grit and agressiveness.

[snagswolf]

One way to answer the question of who is "best", is who would you draft first of existing players if you wanted the best team today?

Today, Datsyuk. I can't see how it's even close, with the possible exception of Lidstrom.
5 years from now? Crosby? Quite possibly - but not today.
The reason you think it's Datsyuk, and it's not 'close', is because you're a Wings homer.

The NHL players disagree with you:

http://www.hockeyforum.com/nhl-forum/11461-hockey-news-player-poll.html

It's their game and this is their voice. The Hockey News canvassed players on all 30 teams this winter and recieved responses from 283, getting their opinions on a variety of topics.

Who is the best player in the NHL this season?

Sidney Crosby - 56%
Joe Thornton - 8%
Vincent Lecavalier - 5%

"Aside from the great talent he possesses, the thing that distances him from the other great players in the league is his competitivness" - Brendan Shanahan (about Sidney Crosby)
-------------------------------------------

Which one of these under-22 players would you select as a foundation for your franchise?

Sidney Crosby - 76%
Alexander Ovechkin - 15%
Dion Phaneuf - 4%
Evgeni Malkin - 3%
Others - 2%

"He's obviously the real deal. He's so mature for his age. He sure doesn't look like a 19-year old out there, the way he skates and controls games...the way he makes things happen. I think he is the reason Pittsburgh has been so successful this year. He is the type of player to build a team around." - Martin St Louis. (About Sidney Crosby)


And the NHL GMs disagree with you:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=252046

NHL GMS TAKE PART IN THIRD ANNUAL POLL FOR TSN

If you could pick one player to build your team around for the next five years, who would it be? A sniper like Alexander Ovechkin? A playmaker like Sidney Crosby? Maybe a stalwart goaltender such as Roberto Luongo?

It's a tough choice, and it's one that TSN asked NHL general managers to make as part of a poll conducted for the NHL on TSN Season Preview Show, which aired Wednesday.

Twenty-eight GMs took part in the third annual poll for TSN, and the franchise player most coveted was Crosby, with 98 points in a 5-3-1 weighted system. Crosby was the top choice on 15 ballots.

Ovechkin topped Luongo 66 to 38 in terms of voting points, but its worth noting that Canucks captain had more first place votes (7) than the Russian gunner (5).

Others getting votes were Dion Phaneuf (21 points), Henrik Zetterberg (12), Carey Price (4), Zdeno Chara (3), Eric Staal (3), Ryan Getzlaf (1), top prospect Viktor Hedman (1), Evgeni Malkin (1), Ryan Miller (1), Jonathan Toews (1) and Shea Weber (1).

Your homie Datsyuk didn't even make the GM's list.

[alexz2317]

The reason you think it's Datsyuk, and it's not 'close', is because you're a Wings homer.

The NHL players disagree with you:

http://www.hockeyforum.com/nhl-forum/11461-hockey-news-player-poll.html

And the NHL GMs disagree with you:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=252046


Your homie Datsyuk didn't even make the GM's list.

How many sites did you dig through to find that?

[scmarcos]

Yeah TSN is definitely not a mainstream hockey site.

:rolleyes:

[snagswolf]

How many sites did you dig through to find that?
How much Wings Koolaid did you have to drink to start this thread?

[alexz2317]

The fact that Lecalvier is on the list, shows that it's a Canadian homer poll.

[alexz2317]

How much Wings Koolaid did you have to drink to start this thread?
Woke up and still realized that we are defending champs!

[snagswolf]

The fact that Lecalvier is on the list, shows that it's a Canadian homer poll.
Yeah, that's why that good ole Canadian boy Ovechkin was rated so high. :rolleyes:

The more you post, the more it becomes clear you don't have a clue about hockey. You're just a Wings homer who can't see anything past the red and white.

[snagswolf]

Woke up and still realized that we are defending champs!
Of course. And because the Wings won the Stanley Cup, that makes all of your biased opinions facts. :rolleyes:

[alexz2317]

Of course. And because the Wings won the Stanley Cup, that makes all of your biased opinions facts. :rolleyes:
Everyone is biased to there favorite teams. But I don't think Crosby is that great right now. He will be in the near future, but not now.

[alexz2317]

Yeah, that's why that good ole Canadian boy Ovechkin was rated so high. :rolleyes:

The more you post, the more it becomes clear you don't have a clue about hockey. You're just a Wings homer who can't see anything past the red and white.
Well of course Ovechkin is on the poll, because he's a good player. I may have different criterias to base a players skill. I don't base them soley on stats.

[snagswolf]

Everyone is biased to there favorite teams. But I don't think Crosby is that great right now. He will be in the near future, but not now.
As I pointed out, the NHL players and NHL GMs disagree with you.

But keep on proving you're clueless about the NHL beyond your home team.

[snagswolf]

Well of course Ovechkin is on the poll, because he's a good player.
But I thought the poll was biased towards Canadians?

I may have different criterias to base a players skill. I don't base them soley on stats.
Yes, I completely understand that you have different criteria when judging a player's skill, than say, most people knowledgeable about hockey, including NHL players and GMs.

That is obvious.

[scmarcos]

His criteria is first who play for the Redwings, that's for sure.

[alexz2317]

As I pointed out, the NHL players and NHL GMs disagree with you.

But keep on proving you're clueless about the NHL beyond your home team.
I'm clueless? I know way more about hockey than you do pal. I don't base a players skill on how much he is on tv and commercials.

[alexz2317]

His criteria is first who play for the Redwings, that's for sure.
I think Federov is a great player. He plays for Washington. BOOM goes your logic.

[scmarcos]

This isn't about who is good. It's about who's the best, and how your jealous homerism left out probably the correct answer.

[alexz2317]

This isn't about who is good. It's about who's the best, and how your jealous homerism left out probably the correct answer.
What is the correct answer?

[scmarcos]

I think we both know that.

[alexz2317]

I think we both know that.
I thought you said Datsyuk doesn't even come close?

[Oddball]

Other.

Miroslav Satan, because of his cool jersey. :mrgreen:

[alexz2317]

Other.

Miroslav Satan, because of his cool jersey. :mrgreen:

No kidding

[snagswolf]

I'm clueless? I know way more about hockey than you do pal. I don't base a players skill on how much he is on tv and commercials.
Yes, clueless.

I'm sure the NHL players and GMs don't base a player's skill on how much he's on TV either.

The only thing you base a player's skill on, is 1) Whether he plays for the Wings, or 2) Whether he's ever done anything to 'offend' the Wings.

Clueless Wings fanboy.

[snagswolf]

I think Federov is a great player. He plays for Washington. BOOM goes your logic.
:)):)):)):)):)):))

You want to give examples that you're not a Wings homer, and the first one you can think of is Federov, who played for the Wings for 13 seasons?

Bwahahaahaha!

Wings fanboy.

[alexz2317]

:)):)):)):)):)):))

You want to give examples that you're not a Wings homer, and the first one you can think of is Federov, who played for the Wings for 13 seasons?

Bwahahaahaha!

Wings fanboy.

Everybody knows he did. How about Patrick Elias? Ryan Getzlaf?

[alexz2317]

Someone in here is still bitter over there overrated team getting smoked in the finals.

[scmarcos]

Who is bitter? I personally could care less about the Wings or their snobby fans.

[snagswolf]

Everybody knows he did. How about Patrick Elias? Ryan Getzlaf?
Those weren't the first ones you mentioned.

:)):)):))

[scmarcos]

Elias didn't even make your list either.

Somehow you managed to leave out Jarome Iginla too. Wonder why that is.

[snagswolf]

Someone in here is still bitter over there overrated team getting smoked in the finals.
That's really all you have, isn't it?

My team won the Stanley Cup, therefore my dumbass opinions mean something.

Funny.

[alexz2317]

That's really all you have, isn't it?

My team won the Stanley Cup, therefore my dumbass opinions mean something.

Funny.
I really don't feel like arguing with you anymore. Everyone has there own opinions. Just because I love my hockey team doesn't mean you can ridicule me. Good luck to your team.

[alexz2317]

Elias didn't even make your list either.

Somehow you managed to leave out Jarome Iginla too. Wonder why that is.
Oh, is that somehow racist? Give me a break. I'm only allowed 10 options. Cut me some slack.

[alexz2317]

Elias didn't even make your list either.

Somehow you managed to leave out Jarome Iginla too. Wonder why that is.
Don't hate on a perfect organization. We have to deal with the Lions and Tigers. At least we have the Wings for enjoyment.

[scmarcos]

Don't hate on a perfect organization. We have to deal with the Lions and Tigers. At least we have the Wings for enjoyment.


A perfect organization? You're kidding, eh?

[alexz2317]

A perfect organization? You're kidding, eh?
The most consecutive years making the playoffs out of all professional sports. Finding talent deep in drafts. 4 Stanley Cups in the last 11 years. Just to name a few accomplishments.

[scmarcos]

That does not make them a perfect organization. There is no such thing.

[alexz2317]

We're continuing to win this season. Can take the points lead in the West with a win over San Jose tonight. And we are Cup favorites. Pittsburgh out of the playoffs as of right now.

[scmarcos]

We're continuing to win this season. Can take the points lead in the West with a win over San Jose tonight. And we are Cup favorites. Pittsburgh out of the playoffs as of right now.

Wrong again smart smart guy. Check the standings.

[alexz2317]

Right now it's a 3-way battle. And if Cindy and his crew don't get there act together, they will miss the playoffs.

[iamredbeard]

I could care less about the Wings place in the standings. We have won the President's Cup many times and not done what is needed in the playoffs. As we all have seen, anything can happen in the playoffs. San Jose can have the President's Cup for all that I care.

[alexz2317]

I could care less about the Wings place in the standings. We have won the President's Cup many times and not done what is needed in the playoffs. As we all have seen, anything can happen in the playoffs. San Jose can have the President's Cup for all that I care.
With a win tonight, they will be in a tie with Boston for league best 70 points. They lost today.

[alexz2317]

Wanna know who definately won't make the list this year. Chris Osgood.

[iamredbeard]

Datsyuk was named the NHL's first star of the last week. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=263880&lid=sublink02&lpos=headlines_nhl

[alexz2317]

He definately deserves it. Hopefully Zetterberg signs the contract soon and get's all that weight off his shoulders. Then he can start tearing it up again.

[iamredbeard]

He definately deserves it. Hopefully Zetterberg signs the contract soon and get's all that weight off his shoulders. Then he can start tearing it up again.

Freep is reporting that Z is close to signing a 10 year contract. There is much talk about how good Malkin, Ovechkin, and Crosby are. But as I said earlier in this thread, I would rather have some who is a great 2 way defenseman. He rarely penalty's, won the Selke last year and has a good shot at getting to 100 points this season. Yep, I'd take him over those three anyday. But in all fairness he has several years on them. I am sure that their defense will get better as they mature.

[alexz2317]

Freep is reporting that Z is close to signing a 10 year contract. There is much talk about how good Malkin, Ovechkin, and Crosby are. But as I said earlier in this thread, I would rather have some who is a great 2 way defenseman. He rarely penalty's, won the Selke last year and has a good shot at getting to 100 points this season. Yep, I'd take him over those three anyday. But in all fairness he has several years on them. I am sure that their defense will get better as they mature.
Only time will tell. The biggest thing with Datsyuk is his defensive abilities and his ability to pass. He isn't a puck hog. He doesn't take over 7 shots a game like Ovechkin and Malkin do. He get's the guys around him the puck. Because Datsyuk draws such a crowd when he gets the puck.

[iamredbeard]

Only time will tell. The biggest thing with Datsyuk is his defensive abilities and his ability to pass. He isn't a puck hog. He doesn't take over 7 shots a game like Ovechkin and Malkin do. He get's the guys around him the puck. Because Datsyuk draws such a crowd when he gets the puck.

Tell that to Datsyuk's teammates. After practice some of them get together and play keep away. Pavel always seems to take the puck away really pick and usually no one can get it away from him. The rest of the team will spend 10-15 minutes trying to get it from him, but ti no avail. :)):)):))

[alexz2317]

Tell that to Datsyuk's teammates. After practice some of them get together and play keep away. Pavel always seems to take the puck away really pick and usually no one can get it away from him. The rest of the team will spend 10-15 minutes trying to get it from him, but ti no avail. :)):)):))
Good bonding time also. We need this team to bond like glue before playoffs roll around. That game against SJ wasn't the greatest.

[scmarcos]

Only time will tell. The biggest thing with Datsyuk is his defensive abilities and his ability to pass. He isn't a puck hog. He doesn't take over 7 shots a game like Ovechkin and Malkin do. He get's the guys around him the puck. Because Datsyuk draws such a crowd when he gets the puck.

Malkin doesn't take an insane amount of shots. He leads the league in assists.

[alexz2317]

Malkin doesn't take an insane amount of shots. He leads the league in assists.
I never said he took an insane amount of shots. He just takes a lot of shots. Ovechkin is the king of shot taking. So is Samuelsson. And they aren't really good shots. He is a waste of roster space on the Wings.

[iamredbeard]

I never said he took an insane amount of shots. He just takes a lot of shots. Ovechkin is the king of shot taking. So is Samuelsson. And they aren't really good shots. He is a waste of roster space on the Wings.

For whatever reason Babcock likes him and when ever his name comes up in post game conferences Babs keeps saying that Sammy is doing exactly what I want him to do. :think:

[alexz2317]

For whatever reason Babcock likes him and when ever his name comes up in post game conferences Babs keeps saying that Sammy is doing exactly what I want him to do. :think:
I hate when he is on the point of a power play. I hate when he takes shots when he can pass it to a better player. He can't hit the net. He kills momentum. I have no clue what's going on.

[alexz2317]

Has anyone seen the NHL player survey in ESPN Mag? 123 NHL players were surveyed on a bunch of questions, one being about the player who whines and complains the most on the ice. 60% said Crosby complains the most hahaha

[iamredbeard]

Has anyone seen the NHL player survey in ESPN Mag? 123 NHL players were surveyed on a bunch of questions, one being about the player who whines and complains the most on the ice. 60% said Crosby complains the most hahaha

I think part of that is due to the fact that the league made him the poster boy of the league before he even got drafted. He's young, he'll do better with that as he matures. You take a young player, who the league has anointed as the savior of the league and then combine that with a coach who cries and complains every time things don't go the way that he thinks they should and that's what you get. Then the made him the youngest captain in NHL history. I think pretty much anyone would end up that way given those circumstances.

[iamredbeard]

ESPN did a survey of 193 active players. Crosby was voted the biggest complainer and it wasn't even that close between him and #2. He got 52% of the votes, while #2, Chris Pronger, got 8% of the votes. Iginla was voted the best leader. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?page=0809playersurvey

[alexz2317]

ESPN did a survey of 193 active players. Crosby was voted the biggest complainer and it wasn't even that close between him and #2. He got 52% of the votes, while #2, Chris Pronger, got 8% of the votes. Iginla was voted the best leader. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?page=0809playersurvey
I don't see why Iginla get's soo much love.

[scmarcos]

I don't see why Iginla get's soo much love.

Then you mustn't be watching too much hockey. Iginla is a great player and puts it all out there for his team. He is a great ambassador for the game.

[iamredbeard]

I don't see why Iginla get's soo much love.

Well I don't like him, but that is because he always seems to be taking cheap shots. But he is a great player, last year was a Hart Finalist. Unlike Pronger, I'd probably feel differently if he was on my team.

[Broseph]

You kiddin' me? Crosby should be on this list. Don't be a hater.

That being said, Malkin is the best player in the league right now.

[alexz2317]

Well I don't like him, but that is because he always seems to be taking cheap shots. But he is a great player, last year was a Hart Finalist. Unlike Pronger, I'd probably feel differently if he was on my team.
Agree, would rather have Iginla than Pronger. I remember Iginals butt-ending of Schneider in the 2007 playoffs.

[alexz2317]

Then you mustn't be watching too much hockey. Iginla is a great player and puts it all out there for his team. He is a great ambassador for the game.
Sorry, I don't have the NHL Center Ice package, just basic cable.

[scmarcos]

Sorry, I don't have the NHL Center Ice package, just basic cable.

So then why do you act like you know it all when it comes to hockey if all you see of other teams is what they do against the Wings?

[alexz2317]

So then why do you act like you know it all when it comes to hockey if all you see of other teams is what they do against the Wings?
I look at stats, read other teams forums to see how they feel about there players. I don't know it all in fact.

[iamredbeard]

Today's game is a good example while I prefer a 2-way player. A player than is on the best defensive forwards as well as an offensive threat, compared to someone who is simply a scoring machine. The announcers mentioned that Malkin and Crosby were #1 and #2 in points this season, but their defensive play is lacking. I'd take Zetterberg and Datsyuk over them, great 2 way forwards, both Selke Award finalists last year and offensive threats.