Prayer needs for our brothers and sisters in Israel.

[The Bos'un]

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=203746517476&id=7fdfbf08467e0b3d2577c7b02578b227We should remember our brothers and sisters in Israel in these trying times. The world sometimes overlooks the aggressions of others and the sacrifices that Israel makes each day.

"And I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year.
give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.
and he replied - Go out into the darkness
and put your hand into the hand of G_d.
That shall be to you better than light
and safer than a known way.

King George VI, Christmas ~ New Year's message, Dec 23, 1939. Quote from Minnie Louise Haskin.

Be'ahavat Yisrael

[The Bos'un]

Psalms - Chapter 130
1. A song of ascents. From the depths I have called You, O Lord.
2. O Lord, hearken to my voice; may Your ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
3. O God, if You keep [a record of] iniquities, O Lord, who will stand?
4. For forgiveness is with You, in order that You be feared.
5. I hoped, O Lord; yea, my soul hoped, and I wait for His word.
6. My soul is to the Lord among those who await the morning, those who await the morning.
7. Israel, hope to the Lord, for kindness is with the Lord and much redemption is with Him.
8. And He will redeem Israel from all their iniquities.

[Meriweather]

Psalm 129

Much have they oppressed me from my youth, now let Israel say.
Much have they oppressed me from my youth,
yet thy have not prevailed.
Upon my back the plowers plowed,
as they traced their long furrow.
But the just Lord cut me free
from the ropes of the yoke of the wicked.

May they be scattered in disgrace,
all who hate Zion.
May they be like grass on the rooftops
withered in early growth,
Never to fill the reaper's hands,
nor the arms of the binders of sheaves,
With none passing by to call out:
"The blessing of the Lord be upon you!
We bless you in the name of the Lord!"

[Mimiheart]

Avinu Shebashamiyim, (Our Father in Heaven), Rock and Redeemer of the people Israel; Bless the State of Israel, with its promise of redemption. Shield it with Your love; spread over it the shelter of Your peace. Guide its leaders and advisors with Your light and Your truth. Help them with Your good counsel. Strengthen the hands of those who defend our Holy Land. Deliver them; crown their efforts with triumph. Bless the land with peace, and its inhabitants with lasting joy.

(from Siddur Sim Shalom)

[CMike11]

Amen

[Gidon]

May the Nations stand with Israel. Lord please protect the Israeli soldiers and sailors and pilots and civilians.

[Constantine the Great]

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=203746517476&id=7fdfbf08467e0b3d2577c7b02578b227We should remember our brothers and sisters in Israel in these trying times. The world sometimes overlooks the aggressions of others and the sacrifices that Israel makes each day.



King George VI, Christmas ~ New Year's message, Dec 23, 1939. Quote from Minnie Louise Haskin.

Be'ahavat Yisrael

I pray there will be a day where Palestinians and Jews will no longer take up arms against each other.

[THE LIGHT]

Psalms 122:6-9
-6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
-7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces.
-8 For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.
-9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.

[The Bos'un]

http://www.onefamilyfund.org/Portals/0/WWH_Pics/Terror_Today/Latest_Attacks/869_GazaBorder/Tehillim.jpg
I will lift up my eyes to the hills.
Where does my help come from?

My help comes from HaShem,
Who made heaven and earth.

He will not allow your foot to be moved.
He who keeps you will not slumber.

Behold, he who keeps Israel
Will neither slumber nor sleep.

HaShem is your keeper.
HaShem is your shade on your right hand.

The sun will not harm you by day,
Nor the moon by night.

HaShem will keep you from all evil.
He will keep your soul.

HaShem will keep your going out and your coming in,
From this time forth, and forevermore.

Psalms 121

[The Bos'un]

http://www.onefamilyfund.org/Portals/0/WWH_Pics/Terror_Today/Latest_Attacks/904_HezbollahAttack/Hezbollah_kidnapped.jpghttp://www.onefamilyfund.org/Portals/0/WWH_Pics/Terror_Today/Latest_Attacks/869_GazaBorder/Cpl._Gilad_Shalit_small.jpg
"He Who blessed our forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- may He bless the fighters of the Israel Defense Forces, who stand guard over our land and the cities of our God, from the border of the Lebanon to the desert of Egypt, and from the Great Sea unto the approach of the Aravah, on the land, in the air, and on the sea. May the Almighty cause the enemies who rise up against us to be struck down before them. May the Holy One, Blessed is He, preserve and rescue our fighters from every trouble and distress and from every plague and illness, and may He send blessing and success in their every endeavor. May He lead our enemies under our soldiers' sway and may He grant them salvation and crown them with victory. And may there be fulfilled for them the verse: For it is the Lord your God, Who goes with you to battle your enemies for you to save you. Now let us respond: Amen."

[The Bos'un]

Thank you Meriweather for the reflecting verses.

[The Bos'un]

Thank you Mimiheart for your reflective verses.

[Harmonious]

Psalm 142

1. A maskil of David, when he was in the cave, a prayer.
2. [With] my voice, I cry out to the Lord; [with] my voice, I supplicate the Lord.
3. I pour out before Him my speech; my distress I recite before Him.
4. When my spirit enwraps itself upon me, and You know my path. In whichever way I go, they have hidden a snare for me.
5. Looking to the right, I see that no one recognizes me; escape is lost from me; no one seeks my soul.
6. I cried out to You, O Lord; I said, "You are my refuge, my lot in the land of the living."
7. Hearken to my cry for I have become very low; save me from my pursuers for they have overpowered me.
8. Take my soul out of confinement to give thanks to Your name; because of me the righteous will crown You, because You will recompense me.

[The Bos'un]

Thank you Harmonious for your inspirations.....

[Gidon]

זְכֹר יְהוָה, לִבְנֵי אֱדוֹם-- אֵת, יוֹם יְרוּשָׁלִָם:
הָאֹמְרִים, עָרוּ עָרוּ-- עַד, הַיְסוֹד בָּהּ. 7 Remember, O LORD, against the children of Edom the day of Jerusalem; {N}
who said: 'Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.'
ח בַּת-בָּבֶל, הַשְּׁדוּדָה:
אַשְׁרֵי שֶׁיְשַׁלֶּם-לָךְ-- אֶת-גְּמוּלֵךְ, שֶׁגָּמַלְתְּ לָנוּ. 8 O daughter of Babylon, that art to be destroyed; {N}
happy shall he be, that repayeth thee as thou hast served us.
ט אַשְׁרֵי, שֶׁיֹּאחֵז וְנִפֵּץ אֶת-עֹלָלַיִךְ-- אֶל-הַסָּלַע. 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock. {P}

HaShem stands with His people. May they root out and destroy utterly those who would take arms against them.

[nofear2]

Best to pray that Israel's leaders will not betray her to her to some phony cease-fire or peace agreement. The big problem is not Israels enemies rather it is the leaders inability to act.

[Reeder]

Praying that Israel will prevail over the scum-bag terrorists who are fighting against them.

[nofear2]

Praying that Israel will prevail over the scum-bag terrorists who are fighting against them.
G-d is on the side of the army so long as the politicians of Israel do not betray its goals.

[Meriweather]

My prayers continue for Israel. May the Lord bless and keep them.

[The Bos'un]

Amen

[The Bos'un]

Please continue your prayers for Israel. They really need it because they are also getting hit by liberal elitists and the world community who support Hamas but have turned their (elitist) backs on the 4,000 rockets, as well as thousands of mortar shells, fired by Hamas and other radical Islamist organizations since 2001.

Liberal elitists and the world community have ignored rocket attacks that increased by 500 percent after Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip in August 2005, not to mention that during an informal six-month lull, some 215 rockets were launched at Israel by Palestinian and Iranian proxy misfits.

[smyrna]

May Israel be in the Lord's will and may Israel's will be strong and of good courage.

[THE LIGHT]

Just a prophetic reminder:

Psalms 83:1-5
-1 A Song or Psalm of Asaph. Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
-2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
-3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
-4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
-5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

[meggers49]

I offer prayers for Israel and her people. I offer prayers for the safety of Jews throughout the world. "Be with us Lord, when we are in trouble, be with us Lord we pray"

Psalm 27
Of David.
1 The LORD is my light and my salvation—
whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the stronghold of my life—
of whom shall I be afraid?
2 When evil men advance against me
to devour my flesh, [a]
when my enemies and my foes attack me,
they will stumble and fall.

3 Though an army besiege me,
my heart will not fear;
though war break out against me,
even then will I be confident.

4 One thing I ask of the LORD,
this is what I seek:
that I may dwell in the house of the LORD
all the days of my life,
to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD
and to seek him in his temple.

5 For in the day of trouble
he will keep me safe in his dwelling;
he will hide me in the shelter of his tabernacle
and set me high upon a rock.

6 Then my head will be exalted
above the enemies who surround me;
at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy;
I will sing and make music to the LORD.

7 Hear my voice when I call, O LORD;
be merciful to me and answer me.

8 My heart says of you, "Seek his face!"
Your face, LORD, I will seek.

9 Do not hide your face from me,
do not turn your servant away in anger;
you have been my helper.
Do not reject me or forsake me,
O God my Savior.

10 Though my father and mother forsake me,
the LORD will receive me.

11 Teach me your way, O LORD;
lead me in a straight path
because of my oppressors.

12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes,
for false witnesses rise up against me,
breathing out violence.

13 I am still confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the LORD
in the land of the living.

14 Wait for the LORD;
be strong and take heart
and wait for the LORD.

[The Bos'un]

Thank you for your prayers and words of encouragement to our Israeli brothers and sisters Smyrna, THE LIGHT and Meggers49.

I only wish a good Jewish girl like Emmy-award winning liberal, Roseanne Barr, would refrain from saying those hateful things about Israel and the Israeli people.

It seems that washed up leftists, some liberals, and entertainers are siding with HAMAS.
( http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85126 )

How hateful can some people be. She should go live in Israel for two years and have to evacuate to a bomb shelter when HAMAS terrorists launch rockets.

[The Bos'un]

Prayers are still needed. From my friends at onenewsnow:A media watchdog organization says no one should be surprised that media coverage of the war between Israel and Hamas terrorists has been overwhelmingly pro-Hamas.


In his first public comments on the conflict since Israel launched a ground offensive over the weekend, President George Bush recently said the Jewish nation is justified in protecting itself against Hamas terrorists. He told reporters that the situation "was caused by Hamas."

The mainstream media, however, continues to point out the civilian casualties inflicted upon the Palestinians in Gaza while ignoring stories about Israeli casualties at the hands of Hamas terrorists.

Tim Graham, director of media analysis at the Media Research Center (http://www.mediaresearch.org/), argues that liberal media outlets portray Israel as the "bully" in the conflict.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/uploadedImages/Media/Images/Mugs/Tim%20Graham.jpg"You can see the bias in the way they present the deaths," he offers. "For example, on the front page of the Washington Post you saw this story about a [Palestinian] man who lost five of his daughters in a missile attack -- and that's very heart rending.

"[But] on the other hand, when Israelis lose brothers and sisters and mothers and children in Hamas attacks, they're not [considered to be] newsworthy. Why? Because apparently the numbers aren't quite as impressive."

Graham says the incursions of Hamas missiles have been portrayed by the media as almost harmless attacks because, in comparison, they are not very deadly.

[ogibillm]

don't forget to pray for the palestinians as well.

[DRS]

I think it is better to pray that God's will be done and that Christians living on either side go unharmed and enjoy the freedom to worship God

[Mimiheart]

Thank you for your prayers and words of encouragement to our Israeli brothers and sisters Smyrna, THE LIGHT and Meggers49.

I only wish a good Jewish girl like Emmy-award winning liberal, Roseanne Barr, would refrain from saying those hateful things about Israel and the Israeli people.

It seems that washed up leftists, some liberals, and entertainers are siding with HAMAS.
( http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85126 )

How hateful can some people be. She should go live in Israel for two years and have to evacuate to a bomb shelter when HAMAS terrorists launch rockets.Rosanne Barr is not Jewish--at least not in any practical sense of the word.

[Mimiheart]

I think it is better to pray that God's will be done and that Christians living on either side go unharmed and enjoy the freedom to worship GodOf course, only the Christians matter.:rolleyes:

[Koushi Shinigami]

I think it is better to pray that God's will be done and that Christians living on either side go unharmed and enjoy the freedom to worship God

Your omission speaks louder than your prayer.

[DRS]

Of course, only the Christians matter.:rolleyes:

If the Christians are doing what they are suppose to do they are not harming people on either side and should be giving aid to those in need

[DRS]

Your omission speaks louder than your prayer.

I'm not going to pray for those engaged in harming one another and innocents

[Koushi Shinigami]

If the Christians are doing what they are suppose to do they are not harming people on either side and should be giving aid to those in need

No. What the Christians SHOULD be doing is getting the Hell out of Israel's way and let them finish the job. And while they're doing that, the Christians should be watching Israel's back.

[DRS]

No. What the Christians SHOULD be doing is getting the Hell out of Israel's way and let them finish the job. And while they're doing that, the Christians should be watching Israel's back.

No it is not for a Christian to take sides all governments stand in a relative position to God and the killing of innocents no matter which side does it is disgusting to God

[Koushi Shinigami]

I'm not going to pray for those engaged in harming one another and innocents

You're choice.

The conflict there has been going on for about a century now. Limited engagement does not work to save lives or foster peace.

[Koushi Shinigami]

:rolleyes: I disagree.

[DRS]

You're choice.

The conflict there has been going on for about a century now. Limited engagement does not work to save lives or foster peace.

Because people do not want peace and others will continue to egg on both sides and supply them with arms to keep killing each other while others look on and cheer

[Koushi Shinigami]

Because people do not want peace and others will continue to egg on both sides and supply them with arms to keep killing each other while others look on and cheer




I'm not going to pray for those engaged in harming one another and innocents

Interesting that you choose not to pray that those involved in the conflict come to their senses and work out thier differences peacfully.

[ogibillm]

I'm not going to pray for those engaged in harming one another and innocents

i can understand that, but it's still a good idea to pray for the innocents on both sides, regardless of religion.

[hben]

Because people do not want peace and others will continue to egg on both sides and supply them with arms to keep killing each other while others look on and cheer

This may be off topic a little, but do you even own a gun for the protection of your family? Just curious.

[Koushi Shinigami]

This may be off topic a little, but do you even own a gun for the protection of your family? Just curious.

Are Canadians allowed to own handguns?

[DRS]

i can understand that, but it's still a good idea to pray for the innocents on both sides, regardless of religion.

Christians are getting bombed on both sides by both sides

[Mimiheart]

If the Christians are doing what they are suppose to do they are not harming people on either side and should be giving aid to those in needThere are Christians in the Israeli army (for that matter there are also Muslims). I don't know about fighting for Palestine.

[ogibillm]

Christians are getting bombed on both sides by both sides

okay. pray for them too.

[DRS]

Interesting that you choose not to pray that those involved in the conflict come to their senses and work out thier differences peacfully.

That is why Christians preach so people can see the vanity in conflicct and lern to work out their differences in love

[Koushi Shinigami]

That is why Christians preach so people can see the vanity in conflicct and lern to work out their differences in love

:shrug: Prayer that they come to their senses couldn't hurt.

[DRS]

Are Canadians allowed to own handguns?

Don't go confusing him with laws

[Koushi Shinigami]

Christians are getting bombed on both sides by both sides

As are innocent, non-combatant Israeli and Palistinian civilians. Will you pray for their safety?

[DRS]

As are innocent, non-combatant Israeli and Palistinian civilians. Will you pray for their safety?

You know what Christians do for them

They bring the hope of God's kingdom as outlined in the bible where wars will be no more niether will the greed, arrogance and hatered of others based on race and nationality that fuel these wars

[Koushi Shinigami]

You know what Christians do for them

They bring the hope of God's kingdom as outlined in the bible where wars will be no more niether will the greed, arrogance and hatered of others based on race and nationality that fuel these wars

Fat lotta help that is while the rockets are raining down.

[Koushi Shinigami]

They are people who claim the Christian faith in Israelis army just as there was in....

Are you absolutely, positively, 100% certain you want to make that comparison?

[DRS]

Fat lotta help that is while the rockets are raining down.

You know is funny all this feigned concern for innocents and peace, when people rebuke Israel for their part on the world scene they arecriticised and when the world choose to aknowledge efforts made by someone like Arafat for peace it is ridiculed.

When there is talk of Israel giving land up in order to pursue peace people here ridicule it

When an Israeli PM signed papers to help bring peace one of his own citizens shot him

[hben]

Are Canadians allowed to own handguns?

I don't know, but if they all feel like DRS, they probably aren't.

[Semi-Sweet]

No it is not for a Christian to take sides all governments stand in a relative position to God and the killing of innocents no matter which side does it is disgusting to God

The OP of this thread stated that "our brothers and sisters in Israel need our prayers.' It is a simple request, why complicate it? You could either pray for them or not.

Israel is our friend. My prayer is for our brothers and sisters in Israel. :pray:

[hben]

Don't go confusing him with laws

In other words, you don't own a gun. Why didn't you just say so? Being rude is more fun...I know.

[DRS]

In other words, you don't own a gun. Why didn't you just say so? Being rude is more fun...I know.

You could easily looked in the laws in my land but owning a gun or not owning gun has nothing to do with being a Christian

Do I walk around prepared in my heart to cause harm to others?

No, for Jesus taught his followers to beat their swords into plowshears and spears into purning shears and to learn war no more, or maybe you feel that this prophecy was not fulfilled

[hben]

The OP of this thread stated that "our brothers and sisters in Israel need our prayers.' It is a simple request, why complicate it? You could either pray for them or not.

Israel is our friend. My prayer is for our brothers and sisters in Israel. :pray:

I agree, but I would be praying for God to protect my family if someone broke into my house in the middle of the night while my wife and daughter were inside, but I would also be trying to get my hands on my gun at the same time I was praying, too. I see nothing wrong with protecting those I love, and I don't see it as a lack of faith. :cool:

[Koushi Shinigami]

In other words, you don't own a gun. Why didn't you just say so? Being rude is more fun...I know.

Why yes..... Yes it is....... :angel:

[DRS]

The OP of this thread stated that "our brothers and sisters in Israel need our prayers.' It is a simple request, why complicate it? You could either pray for them or not.

Israel is our friend. My prayer is for our brothers and sisters in Israel. :pray:

How Israel anymore my friend that Palestine. if the love a Christian has is for all and they realize God loved the world so much he sent His only beggotten son so those having faith could be saved then should be no favouritism

[hben]

Why yes..... Yes it is....... :angel:

Somehow, I knew your opinion on this already. :)) :)) :))

[free2B]

Psalm 35
A Psalm of David.



35:1 Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.
35:2 Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help.
35:3 Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
35:4 Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.
35:6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
35:7 For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul.
35:8 Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall

[ogibillm]

Dear Lord,

Please hear my prayer.

We urge you to assist those who are under fire.
Assist those who have been bombed.
Assist those who have been orphaned.
Assist those who have been tramautised.
Help those who have bullied.
Help those farmers who were told they could no longer farm.
Help any students whos have lost their studies or careers due to bombs.
Help the weak stand up to the strong, always.
Help bring peace and justice.
Help those who have lost rights to travel.
Help those who have witnessed abuse and cruelty.
Help those who have undergone strip searches,racial abuse, robbery and petty harassment.
Help those who have lost land.
Help anyone who has been denied access to water, medical aid etc
Help anyone who has become homeless.

This has been going on for many years, now and we ask you to help those who need it most and punish those who do wrong quickly.


Amen

i like this prayer although i'm not big on asking god to hand out punishment.

[Semi-Sweet]

How Israel anymore my friend that Palestine. if the love a Christian has is for all and they realize God loved the world so much he sent His only beggotten son so those having faith could be saved then should be no favouritism

The OP asked specifically for prayers for our brothers and sisters in Israel. We are free to pray for our brothers and sisters in Palestine as well.

We also have a thread asking for prayers for Mitchell who is the son of Jeff. Do we not pray for Jeff and Mitchell because the thread didn't ask for prayers for every man and his son in the whole world? Are we men and women or are we pettish children wanting everything our way?

[Mimiheart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGW25IslCig

This is similar to the one I posted earlier.

[DRS]

The OP asked specifically for prayers for our brothers and sisters in Israel. We are free to pray for our brothers and sisters in Palestine as well.

We also have a thread asking for prayers for Mitchel who is the son of Jeff. Do we not pray for Jeff because the thread didn't ask for prayers for every man and his son in the whole world? Are we men and women or are we pettish children wanting everything our way?

Praying for the well being of Jeff's son if far different then praying for one side over another in a war when both sides are engaged in behaviour that serves to further hate

[Mimiheart]

Praying for the well being of Jeff's son if far different then praying for one side over another in a war when both sides are engaged in behaviour that serves to further hateThen don't participate.

[DRS]

Then don't participate.

It seems to me that there is a desire for prayers to be said for only one side in all this, and so long as people only see the error of one side and excuse the actions of the other then nothing will ever get done

If you do not like my views you are always welcome to keep going to the mod form

[Semi-Sweet]

Praying for the well being of Jeff's son if far different then praying for one side over another in a war when both sides are engaged in behaviour that serves to further hate

Did the OP ask for us to take sides in a war?

[DRS]

Did the OP ask for us to take sides in a war?

There is only one side mentioned in the OP and in his continued posts which display more political insight into views then the desire for peace

We should remember our brothers and sisters in Israel in these trying times. The world sometimes overlooks the aggressions of others and the sacrifices that Israel makes each day.

They really need it because they are also getting hit by liberal elitists and the world community who support Hamas but have turned their (elitist) backs on the 4,000 rockets, as well as thousands of mortar shells, fired by Hamas and other radical Islamist organizations since 2001.

Liberal elitists and the world community have ignored rocket attacks that increased by 500 percent after Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip in August 2005, not to mention that during an informal six-month lull, some 215 rockets were launched at Israel by Palestinian and Iranian proxy misfits.

[Mimiheart]

It seems to me that there is a desire for prayers to be said for only one side in all this, and so long as people only see the error of one side and excuse the actions of the other then nothing will ever get done

If you do not like my views you are always welcome to keep going to the mod form
I don't like reporting things in the mod forum. If you do things that are against the TOS because you want to be reported, seems to me that's your problem. I certainly don't report because of a difference of opinion. Also, harping over a decision--or a reporting--to the mods is against the rules.

[hben]

It seems to me that there is a desire for prayers to be said for only one side in all this, and so long as people only see the error of one side and excuse the actions of the other then nothing will ever get done

If you do not like my views you are always welcome to keep going to the mod form

I don't think anyone is praying for more killing. Most everyone I know prays for this war and all wars to be over, but in reality there must be a winner and a loser in a war for there to be any real peace in the future at least in that region. Another reality is that Jesus told us that there would continue to be wars until His return. I think we just need to pray that we are on His side whenever a war breaks out and always be prepared for the worst at all times.

[5thIDSoldier]

There are Christians in the Israeli army (for that matter there are also Muslims). I don't know about fighting for Palestine.

Your sig line and picture are the best summary of the difference ever posted anywhere on this forum. :clap:

[hben]

Your sig line and picture are the best summary of the difference ever posted anywhere on this forum. :clap:

AMEN to that...a good example of a picture being worth more than a thousand words. :clap:

[Koushi Shinigami]

Prayers offered. :pray:

[DRS]

I don't like reporting things in the mod forum. If you do things that are against the TOS because you want to be reported, seems to me that's your problem. I certainly don't report because of a difference of opinion. Also, harping over a decision--or a reporting--to the mods is against the rules.

I'm not harping I said if you do not like my opinion on a matter or a post in which fact is presented then that is your right to complain

[DRS]

I don't think anyone is praying for more killing. Most everyone I know prays for this war and all wars to be over, but in reality there must be a winner and a loser in a war for there to be any real peace in the future at least in that region. Another reality is that Jesus told us that there would continue to be wars until His return. I think we just need to pray that we are on His side whenever a war breaks out and always be prepared for the worst at all times.

Yes he said there would be wars but there is no clear cut side he is on, he did not involve himself in the fights between the Jews and the Romans in his day, seems to me the only side for the Christian is on the side of the kingdom and there is no Earthly government on that side

[Koushi Shinigami]

"You can't handle the truth!


Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.




You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall -- you need me on that wall.


We use words like "honor," "code," "loyalty." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.




I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post."

[noelle12]

Your sig line and picture are the best summary of the difference ever posted anywhere on this forum. :clap:

I agree.

[CMike11]

i agree.

+3

[Mimiheart]

:blush:

I found it on livejournal.

[hben]

Yes he said there would be wars but there is no clear cut side he is on, he did not involve himself in the fights between the Jews and the Romans in his day, seems to me the only side for the Christian is on the side of the kingdom and there is no Earthly government on that side

Choosing to be on the side that fights against the evil ones who seek to harm and/or destroy the innocent ones who can't defend and protect themselves would be a pretty safe choice, I'd say.

[DRS]

Choosing to be on the side that fights against the evil ones who seek to harm and/or destroy the innocent ones who can't defend and protect themselves would be a pretty safe choice, I'd say.

Would you have sided with Israel against the Babylonians or the Romans?

[Tucson Jim]

As always, I offer my heartfelt prayers for peace in Israel.

[hben]

Would you have sided with Israel against the Babylonians or the Romans?

I hope I would side with Israel in any situation at anytime of history.

[The Bos'un]

Continue your prayers. The vipers and wolves continue their assault on our Israeli brothers and sisters. G-d bless Israel!

[The Bos'un]

don't forget to pray for the palestinians as well.
Only the ones who truly want peace. I pray that our brothers and sisters of Islam will desire peace with the People of the Book.

[DRS]

I hope I would side with Israel in any situation at anytime of history.

Interesting as God sent those nations against Israel so you would stand against God by swtanding against those whom He uses

[ralittlefield]

Interesting as God sent those nations against Israel so you would stand against God by swtanding against those whom He uses

Why did God send those nations against Israel? Was it because He had rejected Israel?

[DRS]

Why did God send those nations against Israel? Was it because He had rejected Israel?

Babylon as a way of disciplining and Rome as prophecied for their rejection of Him by rejecting the one whom He sent

[hben]

Interesting as God sent those nations against Israel so you would stand against God by swtanding against those whom He uses

Don't be surprized. I am sure that there have been times when God brought me sickness in order to chasten me, but it didn't keep me from going to the doctor.

[DRS]

Don't be surprized. I am sure that there have been times when God brought me sickness in order to chasten me, but it didn't keep me from going to the doctor.

Or you could just be getting sick due to human imperfection

[hben]

Or you could just be getting sick due to human imperfection

But I know better, because I believe God loves me enough to chasten me.

[DRS]

But I know better, because I believe God loves me enough to chasten me.

Can you show me an example of Christian in the bible getting sick as a result of God?

[hben]

Can you show me an example of Christian in the bible getting sick as a result of God?

Can you show me where God said He wouldn't use sickness to chasten His children?

[DRS]

Can you show me where God said He wouldn't use sickness to chasten His children?

13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

Why do you attribute the product of imperfection to God?

God does not desire His servents to be sick

[hben]

13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

Why do you attribute the product of imperfection to God?

God does not desire His servents to be sick

I said nothing about testing, trying or tempting. I said God chastens His children of whom I am one. Chastening comes from a loving parent who wants to teach His children right from wrong. I am blessed to have a loving Father who chastens me. I would not want it any other way.

[ralittlefield]

13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

Why do you attribute the product of imperfection to God?

God does not desire His servents to be sick

James 1:13 is speaking about temptations. Earlier in the chapter he spoke about trials and told us to be glad that they come because they cause us to grow.

This passage from 1 Cor 11 contradicts your statement.

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

[hben]

James 1:13 is speaking about temptations. Earlier in the chapter he spoke about trials and told us to be glad that they come because they cause us to grow.

This passage from 1 Cor 11 contradicts your statement.

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Thanks for that passage, Ray. I hadn't even thought of that one. I know that God uses sickness to chasten His children...I've personally seen it time and time again with myself and many others, but the passage you quoted says it plain.

[DRS]

I said nothing about testing, trying or tempting. I said God chastens His children of whom I am one. Chastening comes from a loving parent who wants to teach His children right from wrong. I am blessed to have a loving Father who chastens me. I would not want it any other way.

And in the scriptures it shows how when is helped when spiritually sick

[DRS]

James 1:13 is speaking about temptations. Earlier in the chapter he spoke about trials and told us to be glad that they come because they cause us to grow.

This passage from 1 Cor 11 contradicts your statement.

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Paul is speaking of those are in that condition in the spiritual sense as Jesus referred to those fell asleep and James also talks about those who were spiritually sick, the seven letters in Revelation show also it is the spiritual condition being addressed

[hben]

Paul is speaking of those are in that condition in the spiritual sense as Jesus referred to those fell asleep and James also talks about those who were spiritually sick, the seven letters in Revelation show also it is the spiritual condition being addressed

There is nothing in this passage indicating spiritual sickness. Paul is obviously talking about physical sickness since falling asleep to a Christian is referring to physical death. He would not refer to spiritual sickness and then refer to physical death at the same time. They are both references to the physical condition of some of the Christians in the Corinthian Church.

[DRS]

There is nothing in this passage indicating spiritual sickness. Paul is obviously talking about physical sickness since falling asleep to a Christian is referring to physical death. He would not refer to spiritual sickness and then refer to physical death at the same time. They are both references to the physical condition of some of the Christians in the Corinthian Church.


So then based on this your illness must be because you take part and your not worthy to do so better be careful before your dead

[hben]

So then based on this your illness must be because you take part and your not worthy to do so better be careful before your dead

No, it could be any number of things, but the bottom line is that God does chasten His children, and if you are never chastened by Him, then you might to question whether or not you belong to Him.

[The Bos'un]

No, it could be any number of things, but the bottom line is that God does chasten His children, and if you are never chastened by Him, then you might to question whether or not you belong to Him.
You are correct that G_d does chastise us (his children) to teach us. Spare the rod and spoil the child is a true statement.

Problem with many liberals and many "thinkers" is they think that they can circumvent G_d's plan and be in control. Only problem is that is a wrong path to be on. We were made for G_d not him for us. Bravo for your dialog.

[The Bos'un]

Please continue your prayers for Israel and the people there. The world community by and large condemns Israel for defending itself.

[DRS]

No, it could be any number of things, but the bottom line is that God does chasten His children, and if you are never chastened by Him, then you might to question whether or not you belong to Him.

If God is making you sick going to the doctor will do nothing

[free2B]

I pray there will be a day where Palestinians and Jews will no longer take up arms against each other.

your prayer is heartfelt and sincere Constantine but falls deaf upon the ears of hamas, if they would forsake their arms and their mindless battle against the Israeli people, their would be peace in the land. none except the extreme would senselessly attack those who wish to live in peace in their own land

[hben]

If God is making you sick going to the doctor will do nothing

Did you see the test results?

[hben]

You are correct that G_d does chastise us (his children) to teach us. Spare the rod and spoil the child is a true statement.

Problem with many liberals and many "thinkers" is they think that they can circumvent G_d's plan and be in control. Only problem is that is a wrong path to be on. We were made for G_d not him for us. Bravo for your dialog.

Thanks for the support, and my prayers are with Israel.

[Andrew_980]

I will pray for the hundreds of innocents on the other side being killed.

[free2B]

I will pray for the hundreds of innocents on the other side being killed.

we are all saddened by the death of the innocent and pray for their protection, the difference is that hamas indiscriminately targets innocent civilians in Israel, the Israeli defenders purposefully attack the leaders of the terror, and those who mindlessly kill civilians with pointless rocket bombardment, they then hide behind the skirts of women and their children, so that the world will cry, see what they are doing, killing women and children. let the hamas terrorists stand in front of their families to fight instead of behind them

[hben]

we are all saddened by the death of the innocent and pray for their protection, the difference is that hamas indiscriminately targets innocent civilians in Israel, the Israeli defenders purposefully attack the leaders of the terror, and those who mindlessly kill civilians with pointless rocket bombardment, they then hide behind the skirts of women and their children, so that the world will cry, see what they are doing, killing women and children. let the hamas terrorists stand in front of their families to fight instead of behind them

The term coward comes to mind, and my prayers are with any innocent victims of cowardous murderers.

[PercyVere]

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=203746517476&id=7fdfbf08467e0b3d2577c7b02578b227We should remember our brothers and sisters in Israel in these trying times. The world sometimes overlooks the aggressions of others and the sacrifices that Israel makes each day.



King George VI, Christmas ~ New Year's message, Dec 23, 1939. Quote from Minnie Louise Haskin.

Be'ahavat YisraelIs it acceptable to wish the best for both sides of the conflict in Israel and Palestine, and to hope that the slaughter of children will end soon?

[wildatheart]

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=203746517476&id=7fdfbf08467e0b3d2577c7b02578b227We should remember our brothers and sisters in Israel in these trying times. The world sometimes overlooks the aggressions of others and the sacrifices that Israel makes each day.



King George VI, Christmas ~ New Year's message, Dec 23, 1939. Quote from Minnie Louise Haskin.

Be'ahavat Yisrael

I'll continue to pray for the nation of Israel.

I also pray daily that the U.S resists the temptation to get involved in the conflict.

[DRS]

Did you see the test results?

Nope just know the bible and one can not get around God

It seems interesting that a man who preaches to others so freely admits himself to having no problem rebelling against God

[Andrew_980]

we are all saddened by the death of the innocent and pray for their protection, the difference is that hamas indiscriminately targets innocent civilians in Israel, the Israeli defenders purposefully attack the leaders of the terror, and those who mindlessly kill civilians with pointless rocket bombardment, they then hide behind the skirts of women and their children, so that the world will cry, see what they are doing, killing women and children. let the hamas terrorists stand in front of their families to fight instead of behind them

Isreal has a history of destroying schools, hospitols, food. If hamas is terrorist for killing ten, what is isreal for what they have done since december? If isreal is trying to avoid civilians then they need to fire the entire military.

[nofear2]

Isreal has a history of destroying schools, hospitols, food. If hamas is terrorist for killing ten, what is isreal for what they have done since december? If isreal is trying to avoid civilians then they need to fire the entire military.
Whats wrong with destroying schools/hospitals which harbor terrorists and their weaponry?

Are you so shallow as to assign the term terrorism when only people are killed?

Being that you know nothing of war and the military and how to conduct a war you make such conclusions.

[Andrew_980]

Whats wrong with destroying schools/hospitals which harbor terrorists and their weaponry?

Are you so shallow as to assign the term terrorism when only people are killed?

Being that you know nothing of war and the military and how to conduct a war you make such conclusions.

being that you give arab life no regard you make the conclusion that it is acceptable.

[nofear2]

being that you give arab life no regard you make the conclusion that it is acceptable.

Where did I say that I do not regard Arab life?

[nofear2]

being that you give arab life no regard you make the conclusion that it is acceptable.

Or is it that you support Hamas and what they do. After all - they're Arabs. Should I have regard for them?

[Free Speech]

.. After all - they're Arabs. Should I have regard for them?

I dont know what you meant, in the eyes of God , Arabs and Jews are exactly equal and they both need our prayers.

Most Christians are praying for both arabs and jews in true spirit of Jesus teachings of love for all

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1243981

[free2B]

Isreal has a history of destroying schools, hospitols, food. If hamas is terrorist for killing ten, what is isreal for what they have done since december? If isreal is trying to avoid civilians then they need to fire the entire military.

again the difference is the so called ten killed by the terror org hamas are mainly the innocent children and civilians of Israel, hamas hides its weapons and terror cells in schools hospitals mosques and amongst their own children and families, if they wantonly attack Israeli innocents, they can expect no less in response, if they hide their weapons of disaster in the houses and institutions of the innocent.

[Andrew_980]

Where did I say that I do not regard Arab life?

In the now missing post where you said no arab life is worth risking a jewish one.

[Andrew_980]

again the difference is the so called ten killed by the terror org hamas are mainly the innocent children and civilians of Israel, hamas hides its weapons and terror cells in schools hospitals mosques and amongst their own children and families, if they wantonly attack Israeli innocents, they can expect no less in response, if they hide their weapons of disaster in the houses and institutions of the innocent.

Yeah, hit a hospital full of innocents to get a couple of militants and a handful of weapons. Why not just nuke it all by that logic?

[Andrew_980]

Or is it that you support Hamas and what they do. After all - they're Arabs. Should I have regard for them?

I would love to see every terrorist dead. The difference is I am not willing to commit genocide to do it. Isreal comes way to close to committing one of histories great atrocities.

[angelicmadrigal]

After all - they're Arabs. Should I have regard for them?

Excuse you? Who the hell are you to decide who's life has meaning or is worthy of "regard"?

How would YOU feel if someone said one of the following statements:

After all - they're Jews. Should I have regard for them?

or
After all - they're Blacks. Should I have regard for them?

or

After all - they're Whites. Should I have regard for them?
or

After all - they're Chrsitians. Should I have regard for them?

You know what you're doing right? You're resorting to the SAME mentality as those terrorists you have so little regard for. YOu must not have very much regard for yourself either.

[angelicmadrigal]

I would love to see every terrorist dead. The difference is I am not willing to commit genocide to do it. Isreal comes way to close to committing one of histories great atrocities.

Didn't you know Andrew, all Arabs are terrorists. ::eyeroll::

[The Bos'un]

I am glad you are praying.

As for the second comment, well.........

[The Bos'un]

When the Israelis are slaughtered no one says much of anything and somehow justifies the Palestinian hate that some profess. It is not just children who are being killed....

[angelicmadrigal]

When the Israelis are slaughtered no one says much of anything and somehow justifies the Palestinian hate that some profess. It is not just children who are being killed....

Sure they do. Mainstream media might not but there are people who have been saying that for years. The problem is it's become a tit for tat issue. It really is starting to resemble a shoving match between children.

The best thing for the people (Palestinian and Isreali) in that area that don't want to fight to do is get out any way they can. Because the truth is the militants don't give a damn about the civilians, and honestly I suspect the Isreali military doesn't either. War is war and no one gives a hoot about what happens to children or non combatants. I realize what a horrible decisions that has to be for a person to just leave everything they have behind and be forced to live as a refugee, but honestly is that thought any worse than dying because NO ONE cares about you.

[Andrew_980]

Sure they do. Mainstream media might not but there are people who have been saying that for years. The problem is it's become a tit for tat issue. It really is starting to resemble a shoving match between children.

A shoving match between impoverished people in occupied territory versus one of the strongest militaries in the world.

[The Bos'un]

While Israelis read headlines about ceasefire possibilities, there is little evidence of one in Gaza or in southern Israel, where a grad rocket exploded in the city of Beersheva Thursday, injuring five people and seriously wounded a seven-year-old boy.

[The Bos'un]

The Iranian proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, should stop the rockets

[angelicmadrigal]

A shoving match between impoverished people in occupied territory versus one of the strongest militaries in the world.

Either way it's truly ridiculous and childish. I mean I understand that the Palestinians as a group have their wants and desires and the Isreali's have thiers. But honestly, fighting is NOT the way to get what you want.

[angelicmadrigal]

While Israelis read headlines about ceasefire possibilities, there is little evidence of one in Gaza or in southern Israel, where a grad rocket exploded in the city of Beersheva Thursday, injuring five people and seriously wounded a seven-year-old boy.

As I mentioned, neither side cares who they kill.

[angelicmadrigal]

The Iranian proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, should stop the rockets

They won't do that. Why should they, they aren't really being hurt by what they're doing at all. They're just getting peopel who don't desrve to be killed, killed. People really ought to see that and LEAVE them to fight it out ALONE.

[The Bos'un]

We should not have fought our own Revolutionary war or Civil war. We should not have fought WWI and WWII. We should not have fought the Korean war.

There is a lot we should have not done.

[The Bos'un]

All we are saying is give peace a chance. How about: While Israelis read headlines about ceasefire possibilities, there is little evidence of one in Gaza or in southern Israel, where a grad rocket exploded in the city of Beersheva Thursday, injuring five people and seriously wounded a seven-year-old boy.

[angelicmadrigal]

We should not have fought our own Revolutionary war or Civil war. We should not have fought WWI and WWII. We should not have fought the Korean war.

There is a lot we should have not done.

Honestly, in some people's eyes the people who fought in the revolutionary war were insurgents and terrorits.

In my opinion as far as the Civil War goes, we don't know what would have happened had the south simply become another country. I can't say for certainity it would have been all bad. It's the same as any conflict of the past, we never know for sure what could have been. Perhaps, as my bf says, "Let me fire up the old way back machine and find out for you".

So it's all relative to what lens we are viewing through. War is not very appealing to most when viewed through the lens of the present.

[angelicmadrigal]

All we are saying is give peace a chance. How about:

As I have been saying, that isn't going to happen.

[nofear2]

In the now missing post where you said no arab life is worth risking a jewish one.

That is stressing the importance of a Jewish life not the disregard of an Arabs. But good twist :))

[nofear2]

Excuse you? Who the hell are you to decide who's life has meaning or is worthy of "regard"?

How would YOU feel if someone said one of the following statements:

After all - they're Jews. Should I have regard for them?

or
After all - they're Blacks. Should I have regard for them?

or

After all - they're Whites. Should I have regard for them?
or

After all - they're Chrsitians. Should I have regard for them?

You know what you're doing right? You're resorting to the SAME mentality as those terrorists you have so little regard for. YOu must not have very much regard for yourself either.

Great twist :)) I am simply stating that the moment Hamas shoots rockets at Israel they put their lives at the mercy of our trigger.

[nofear2]

When the Israelis are slaughtered no one says much of anything and somehow justifies the Palestinian hate that some profess. It is not just children who are being killed....

This is the world for you. This just strengthens the reason why Israel is needed. The world doesn't want us, the world wants us dead. When an errant Arab mortar shell intended for southern Israel hits a group of kids in Gaza the world does not even notice, but when Israel retaliates after waiting too patiently the world goes up in arms saying "how dare you even think of defending yourself?"
The world hasn't changed and Nazism still exists - it's evolved.

[nofear2]

I dont know what you meant, in the eyes of God , Arabs and Jews are exactly equal and they both need our prayers.

Most Christians are praying for both arabs and jews in true spirit of Jesus teachings of love for all

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1243981

Maybe your god. My G-d despises the evil in this world.

[nofear2]

A shoving match between impoverished people in occupied territory versus one of the strongest militaries in the world.

The according to your allegation of "genocide" how is it possible that Israel has not wiped them all out?

[nofear2]

Either way it's truly ridiculous and childish. I mean I understand that the Palestinians as a group have their wants and desires and the Isreali's have thiers. But honestly, fighting is NOT the way to get what you want.

So should Israel just stop batting an eyelash when Hamas fires rockets at them? Or should Israels people just all kill themselves so as to submit to the wants of the Palestinian people?

[angelicmadrigal]

So should Israel just stop batting an eyelash when Hamas fires rockets at them?
Or should Israels people just all kill themselves so as to submit to the wants of the Palestinian people?

Neither group is going to stop until the other is eradicated, so my advice is the people that don't want killed should get out the hell out, PERIOD. Honestly, if you can't get along with your neighbors feel free to kill each other, it's no skin off my nose anymore.

[angelicmadrigal]

Great twist :)) I am simply stating that the moment Hamas shoots rockets at Israel they put their lives at the mercy of our trigger.

Actually it isn't a twist, read your own post that is EXACTLY how you sound.

[nofear2]

Neither group is going to stop until the other is eradicated, so my advice is the people that don't want killed should get out the hell out, PERIOD. Honestly, if you can't get along with your neighbors feel free to kill each other, it's no skin off my nose anymore.

So because we are being shot at we should just leave?

[nofear2]

Actually it isn't a twist, read your own post that is EXACTLY how you sound.
Now that's how you perceive what I said.
I notice you clipped only a part of my post and quoted on it leaving out the big picture. :))

[angelicmadrigal]

Now that's how you perceive what I said.
I notice you clipped only a part of my post and quoted on it leaving out the big picture. :))

Actually those WHOLE post which is:
Or is it that you support Hamas and what they do. After all - they're Arabs. Should I have regard for them?

Does NOT make your case any better. Not only does it show your OPEN disregard for Arab lives, but your arrogance to assume because someone dosent' agree with the something you think they MUST suport terrorism. It wasn't taken out of context at all, I was trying to save you some face, but now you've totally ruined any chnce of that.

[nofear2]

Does NOT make your case any better. Not only does it show your OPEN disregard for Arab lives, but your arrogance to assume because someone dosent' agree with the something you think they MUST suport terrorism. It wasn't taken out of context at all, I was trying to save you some face, but now you've totally ruined any chnce of that.

I don't need you to cut me any slack. Andrew had stated that I have no regard for Arab life. I answered in kind by saying as I did. As a result you took it as if I have no regard to Arab life. I have no regard for anyone that fights under the banner of Hamas, that is simply what I had been saying.

[angelicmadrigal]

I don't need you to cut me any slack. Andrew had stated that I have no regard for Arab life. I answered in kind by saying as I did. As a result you took it as if I have no regard to Arab life. I have no regard for anyone that fights under the banner of Hamas, that is simply what I had been saying.

That might of been what you meant to say, but the way it reads it sounds more like what I was saying.

[nofear2]

That might of been what you meant to say, but the way it reads it sounds more like what I was saying.

I'm still new to English. It can happen.

[angelicmadrigal]

I'm still new to English. It can happen.

Really? What's your first language?

Don't worry about it.

[nofear2]

Really? What's your first language?

Don't worry about it.

I grew up speaking Hebrew and Arabic. Neither is my first language they are both.

[angelicmadrigal]

I grew up speaking Hebrew and Arabic. Neither is my first language they are both.

Don't worry English isn't so bad when you get used to it.

[nofear2]

Don't worry English isn't so bad when you get used to it.
I'm not worried - its just a process.

[angelicmadrigal]

I'm not worried - its just a process.

How old were you when you started learning english?

[nofear2]

How old were you when you started learning english?

I always knew how to speak a broken English being that many Israeli's learn the language. I began learning to perfect it when I turned 56 - 6 years ago. I still have an accent but by now I have learned context grammar and how to spell. It's one of the reasons I am on this forum. The only way to learn is by using the language.

[The Bos'un]

I think that the words of some of the more radical imams in Egypt sums up the realities of the situation. These are supporters of Hamas who help ferry the weapons that kill the Israelis and started this latest incursion. Courtesy of MEMRI:
Following are excerpts from addresses by several Egyptian clerics on the subject of martyrdom and love of death. The programs aired on Al-Rahma TV and Al-Nas TV on January 2, 8, and 11, 2009.

To view this clip, visit http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1984.htm (http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1984.htm).

TO VIEW THIS CLIP AND OTHERS, YOU MUST LOG IN/REGISTER FOR MEMRI TV. REGISTRATION IS FREE OF CHARGE. Visit www.memritv.org (http://www.memritv.org/) and click "Register" at upper right.

Al-Nas TV, January 11, 2009

Safwat Higazi: "When I Wake Up... I [Count the] Martyrs to Know How Much Happiness There Is in Heaven and On Earth... I Wake Up in the Morning to See How Many Children Will Remain Children Forever"
Egyptian cleric Safwat Higazi: "When I wake up in the morning, I check on the number of martyrs to know how much happiness there is in heaven and on earth. I do not wake up to see how many of us have been killed. No, I wake up to see how many bridegrooms have been wedded in the heavens, how many brides have been wedded in the heavens. I do not wake up in the morning to see how many children have been killed. I wake up to see how many children will vouch for their relatives. I wake up in the morning to see how many children will remain children forever. I wake up in the morning to see how many children will carry jugs of water to the sink of the Messenger of Allah.

"The blood of the martyrs shines light upon everything between heaven and earth. I want to know the number of martyrs and the number of wounded, in order to know how many liters of the blood of believers has been spilled, how many liters of the blood of believers have been spilled on the land of Gaza, increasing its purity, cleanliness, and honor."

Al-Nas TV, January 8, 2009

Sheikh Salam Abd Al-Qawi: "We Must Teach Our Children to... Hate the Jews"
Egyptian cleric Sheikh Salam Abd Al-Qawi: "Hating the enemies of Allah is very important. We must teach our children, our youngsters, our brothers, and all the Muslims to hate the accursed Zionist Jews. Why not? They teach their children to hate us. Our hatred of the Jews is based upon our faith. The Koran tells us to hate them, not to love them.

[...]

"We must teach our children to obey Allah, to obey the Prophet Muhammad, and to hate the Jews, the Zionists, and what the Zionists are planning. We must raise them on the Koranic verses that call to fight and wage jihad for the sake of Allah. We want to raise our children to love jihad for the sake of Allah. We must teach our children that death for the sake of Allah is our most lofty goal.

[...]

"We want to make our children love jihad for the sake of Allah, to teach them what sacrifice is, what it means to love jihad for the sake of Allah. We too, as fathers, must learn this. The peak of my happiness as a father is to raise a martyr, and to sacrifice him in the battleground of jihad for the sake of Allah. The peak of my happiness would be to do what the Prophet’s companions did. Every mother should raise her son, and nurse him – together with her milk – with the love of jihad for the sake of Allah, with the love of Paradise.

[...]

"What kind of honor, glory, and status can a mother wish for her son which is better than Paradise? Is there anything better than this? Is there anything better than Paradise? Is there anything better than martyrdom for the sake of Allah? That is why we want to change the culture of our children’s education. Education should not be through love, spoiling, and pampering. True, these are nice things – I’m not saying you should slaughter your sons or tie them up. These are nice things, but it is even nicer to teach our children to hate the enemies."

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) is an independent, non-profit organization that translates and analyzes the media of the Middle East. Copies of articles and documents cited, as well as background information, are available on request.

MEMRI holds copyrights on all translations. Materials may only be used with proper attribution.

MEMRI
P.O. Box 27837, Washington, DC 20038-7837
Phone: (202) 955-9070
Fax: (202) 955-9077
www.memri.org (http://www.memri.org/)"Bosun's disclaimer: Not all Muhammadans are radicals. There are many moderate Muhammadans who do truly want to live in peace. As a matter of fact, the West Bank has many good Palestinians who are prosperous and living well. When Hamas wrestled control over Gaza from Fat'ah and set up a terroristic state, bad things happened. We must address the complete problem with Hamas before peace can be restored.

Many Arab countries are in a bad situation with this. Islam calls for brotherhood to support brotherhood and this current situation to prevent rockets from raining down in Israel is loosing the support of world opinion. I hope that we pray for Israelis and moderate Muhammadans to find the way.

[Andrew_980]

That is stressing the importance of a Jewish life not the disregard of an Arabs. But good twist :))

So you are still saying that one race has more inherent worth than the other, i already got banned once for telling you how i feel about that.

Of course saying things like
"No it's what happens when you grow up in Israel and learned who the Arabs really are"

Doesn't help

[Andrew_980]

I think that the words of some of the more radical imams in Egypt sums up the realities of the situation. These are supporters of Hamas who help ferry the weapons that kill the Israelis and started this latest incursion. Courtesy of MEMRI:Bosun's disclaimer: Not all Muhammadans are radicals. There are many moderate Muhammadans who do truly want to live in peace. As a matter of fact, the West Bank has many good Palestinians who are prosperous and living well. When Hamas wrestled control over Gaza from Fat'ah and set up a terroristic state, bad things happened. We must address the complete problem with Hamas before peace can be restored.

Many Arab countries are in a bad situation with this. Islam calls for brotherhood to support brotherhood and this current situation to prevent rockets from raining down in Israel is loosing the support of world opinion. I hope that we pray for Israelis and moderate Muhammadans to find the way.

I fully agree that fundamentalist Muslims are a problem, just not one to be remedied by slaughtering the innocent.

[The Bos'un]

We agree more than you think. War is terrible. One side has to make concessions on the Hamas issue. G_d knows that Israel has tried to appease the situation. Constant rocket attacks by Hamas went on for quite some time. Now it is time to end it.

The blood of every man woman and child that is hurt or killed in this conflict is on the hands of Hamas. Israel is trying to protect itself, its people, and the Arab Israelis. G_d willing the problem has not spread to the West Bank were calmer attitudes prevail.

What do you think of the speeches by the Radical imams? All are proxies for Iran.

[nofear2]

So you are still saying that one race has more inherent worth than the other, i already got banned once for telling you how i feel about that.

Of course saying things like
"No it's what happens when you grow up in Israel and learned who the Arabs really are"

Doesn't help

My race are my family. To me family comes first. I don't know how you feel about family but to me I care about me people above anyone else. Not say that I disregard other peoples rights - unless they have disregard for mine or my peoples.

[nofear2]

So you are still saying that one race has more inherent worth than the other, i already got banned once for telling you how i feel about that.

Of course saying things like
"No it's what happens when you grow up in Israel and learned who the Arabs really are"

Doesn't help
I happen to have served 30 years in the Israeli Army and my Arab friends know this, does it matter?

[Andrew_980]

I happen to have served 30 years in the Israeli Army and my Arab friends know this, does it matter?

I feel that it badly colors your perception of the whole conflict.

[The Bos'un]

My race are my family. To me family comes first. I don't know how you feel about family but to me I care about me people above anyone else. Not say that I disregard other peoples rights - unless they have disregard for mine or my peoples.
Good point.

[Andrew_980]

My race are my family. To me family comes first. I don't know how you feel about family but to me I care about me people above anyone else. Not say that I disregard other peoples rights - unless they have disregard for mine or my peoples.

Their are other groups that feel the same about their race, but most of us detest such beliefs. to me a white person, or to be more specific a german or pole (most of my background) have the same inherent value as any other. Any other belief on race is disgusting to me.

[nofear2]

I feel that it badly colors your perception of the whole conflict.

The only way to perceive a conflict is to be a part of it. Unless you are a part you will never understand it.
It's like a man trying to understand the pain a woman in labor (child birth) goes through.
The fact that despite my life experience in the Army I still maintain a strong tie with the Arab community speaks for itself. Because even many Arabs do not see things as you do.

[The Bos'un]

I am not sure you are seeing the complete picture Andrew. I suggest that you visit Israel and see for yourself what life is like there. I have lived in several regions of the world and interacted with many different cultures.

Individually, most are nice people. However, sometimes when you get a bunch of them together, the dynamics of the group changes and they take on a much different attitude.

Israel has tried to live at peace with its neighbors. It is very difficult when some of the neighbors preach hate and extermination. Your really should read Nonie Darwish writings on the the middle east. You should go there and live among the people there.

[nofear2]

Their are other groups that feel the same about their race, but most of us detest such beliefs. to me a white person, or to be more specific a german or pole (most of my background) have the same inherent value as any other. Any other belief on race is disgusting to me.

Enjoy your belief. My people have still not forgotten the treatment they were given in Germany and Poland. Which is why we look out for family first.

[Andrew_980]

The only way to perceive a conflict is to be a part of it. Unless you are a part you will never understand it.
It's like a man trying to understand the pain a woman in labor (child birth) goes through.
The fact that despite my life experience in the Army I still maintain a strong tie with the Arab community speaks for itself. Because even many Arabs do not see things as you do.

They find any amount of death of innocent in the name of isreal acceptable?
That is my issue, the suffering of civilians instead of (gasp) risking a few soldiers instead of starving, bombing and denying medicine to a bunch of innocents.

[Andrew_980]

Enjoy your belief. My people have still not forgotten the treatment they were given in Germany and Poland. Which is why we look out for family first.

Sorry bucky, 3 million poles died.
Maybe not as many as jews, but my people suffered too.
But we moved on.

[The Bos'un]

Excellent comment Nofear. There are Arabs and Muhammedans who do not support the radicalism of Hamas and their Iranian handlers.

Richard Meyers, then chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff said in 2005 in a little-noticed Pentagon news briefing.

"The stakes are huge," said Myers. "If the Zarqawis of the world, if (al Qaeda) were allowed to be successful in Iraq, in their view, that would be the start of the caliphate that they envision. The stakes would be huge for the region. You talk about instability. It would be instant instability in that region, in Saudi Arabia on down the Gulf states, perhaps Iran, Syria, Turkey (and Egypt)."

With those words, Myers unambiguously identified the strategic imperative for the post invasion conflicts -- preventing the birth of a fundamentalist Islamic empire spanning the entire Middle East -- al Qaeda's Caliphate. We are seeing the middle east accelerate under the banner of perceived cutting and running. This conflict is much more precarious that the Southeast Asia experience of the 1960s and 1970s. We have a radical Islamic caliphate that once controlled the Mediterranean region from Spain to the Indies river in South Asia. Their religious doctrine requires complete dominance of the world. They are massing to exterminate Israel and move beyond.

Peace is elusive. I sincerely hope the Obama administration is up to the task at hand.

I just pasted this from an email to one of my friends this morning regarding the middle east conflict esculation.

[Andrew_980]

I am not sure you are seeing the complete picture Andrew. I suggest that you visit Israel and see for yourself what life is like there. I have lived in several regions of the world and interacted with many different cultures.

Individually, most are nice people. However, sometimes when you get a bunch of them together, the dynamics of the group changes and they take on a much different attitude.

Israel has tried to live at peace with its neighbors. It is very difficult when some of the neighbors preach hate and extermination. Your really should read Nonie Darwish writings on the the middle east. You should go there and live among the people there.

When did they live in peace?
When they claimed the land, relegated arabs to second class?
When they set up camps and decided how they could live?

[The Bos'un]

Israel tried. You really should study the complete story of the middle east. I am not sure we can carry on an intelligent conversation if you do not try to Gestalt the whole situation and look at it from all angles. My friend, I encourage you to visit the Middle East and spend some time in Israel.

[nofear2]

Sorry bucky, 3 million poles died.
Maybe not as many as jews, but my people suffered too.
But we moved on.
We don't move on because the Poles and Germans haven't moved on as well. Believe me the Poles were not any nicer than Germans were and we cannot forget what happened.

[The Bos'un]

Israel tried. You really should study the complete story of the middle east. I am not sure we can carry on an intelligent conversation if you do not try to Gestalt the whole situation and look at it from all angles. My friend, I encourage you to visit the Middle East and spend some time in Israel.
Andrew, try reading something other than were you are getting some rather one sided information. And, listen less to Hamas and liberal propaganda.

[Andrew_980]

We don't move on because the Poles and Germans haven't moved on as well. Believe me the Poles were not any nicer than Germans were and we cannot forget what happened.

And the middle east is full of people that will not forget what jews did in the past and the cycle never ends. i think many want that cycle of hate and feuding to never end.

[nofear2]

They find any amount of death of innocent in the name of isreal acceptable?
That is my issue, the suffering of civilians instead of (gasp) risking a few soldiers instead of starving, bombing and denying medicine to a bunch of innocents.

Alas the burden a soldier carries will never be understood by one such as yourself. There are many times in which a soldier must decide between doing what is moral, and what is right.

Defending your people is the RIGHT thing to do, even if taking life is MORALLY reprehensible.

[The Bos'un]

What did the "Jews" do in the past, my friend?

[nofear2]

And the middle east is full of people that will not forget what jews did in the past and the cycle never ends. i think many want that cycle of hate and feuding to never end.

We do not hate, we remember and learn from our mistakes.

[Andrew_980]

We do not hate, we remember and learn from our mistakes.

Call it what you want.

[nofear2]

Call it what you want.
That we don't trust your people?
You've given us every reason not to.

[Andrew_980]

What did the "Jews" do in the past, my friend?

The genocide of midian.

They succeeded in whiping out another people.
War with their neighbors as is the history of the middle east.

[nofear2]

The genocide of midian.

Slavery in Egypt. Oh wait- Egypt is now at peace with Israel...I wonder why?

[Andrew_980]

That we don't trust your people?
You've given us every reason not to.

So people deserve treatment based on race?
and what of isreal's actions should make me trust them?

[Andrew_980]

Slavery in Egypt. Oh wait- Egypt is now at peace with Israel...I wonder why?

Most likely a mix of better economy and fear of america

[nofear2]

So people deserve treatment based on race?
and what of isreal's actions should make me trust them?

You do not have to trust us. We have nothing to do with you it is people such as yourself who want to stick your head into our business.

[The Bos'un]

Not just soldiers, but men also carry a burdent (that is they can fess up to the truth)

“Not a day goes by that a man doesn’t have to choose between what he wants,and what he is afraid to lose.” …Blues Musician Robert Cray

[The Bos'un]

Have you ever been to Egypt?

[Andrew_980]

You do not have to trust us. We have nothing to do with you it is people such as yourself who want to stick your head into our business.

Except billions of our tax dollars that help fund what is going on over there and the fact that thanks to evengelicals, america doesn't dare offend isreal or fail to back it. A war your people start will effect mine.

[Andrew_980]

Not just soldiers, but men also carry a burdent (that is they can fess up to the truth)

“Not a day goes by that a man doesn’t have to choose between what he wants,and what he is afraid to lose.” …Blues Musician Robert Cray



A justification for all atrocity.

[The Bos'un]

Was that sand or business? ;)

[Andrew_980]

You do not have to trust us. We have nothing to do with you it is people such as yourself who want to stick your head into our business.

You would have business if america hadn't gotten involved in the past.

[The Bos'un]

Your savior Obama will change it!

[nofear2]

Most likely a mix of better economy and fear of america
You display ignorance in regard to the Arab world.
Nothing to do with fear. Egypt didn't want a bad future of war and desolation so they decided to put their differences with us aside and shake hands.

[nofear2]

You would have business if america hadn't gotten involved in the past.

America didn't get involved with us till 73.

[The Bos'un]

That is until he learns the reality of the situation. I suspect that he already has.

[nofear2]

A justification for all atrocity.
Or perhaps it is the reality of things. Try living in the world that is as opposed to how you'd want it to be.

[Andrew_980]

America didn't get involved with us till 73.

You might want to tell that to my grandfather that almost died to put an end to the nazi

[Andrew_980]

Or perhaps it is the reality of things. Try living in the world that is as opposed to how you'd want it to be.

Then the lives of the innocent are meaningless?
Wow, i perfer death to evil.

[nofear2]

Except billions of our tax dollars that help fund what is going on over there and the fact that thanks to evengelicals, america doesn't dare offend isreal or fail to back it. A war your people start will effect mine.
Divorce America then. They choose their own friends.

[Andrew_980]

Your savior Obama will change it!

Except for the fact that i loath obama

[nofear2]

Then the lives of the innocent are meaningless?
Wow, i perfer death to evil.

The death and terror my people experience mean more to me than the "innocence" the Palestinians display.

[The Bos'un]

Egypt walk a balancing beam with their diverse population. We must remember the Muslim Brotherhood ( الإخوان المسلمون ). There are several senators and congressmen in the US who think that الإخوان المسلمون is a social organization.

[Andrew_980]

Divorce America then. They choose their own friends.

I dissociate myself from most christians because of this kind of crap.

[gpd®]

Except for the fact that i loath obama

It is a bad thing that we assume non-religious people are automatically liberal.

[nofear2]

You might want to tell that to my grandfather that almost died to put an end to the nazi

Israel was created in 1948 :)) That's after World War 2

[The Bos'un]

Egypt walk a balancing beam with their diverse population. We must remember the Muslim Brotherhood ( الإخوان المسلمون ). There are several senators and congressmen in the US who think that الإخوان المسلمون is a social organization.
Hassan al-Banna was ahead of his time, or maybe a real follower of Muhammad.

[Andrew_980]

The death and terror my people experience mean more to me than the "innocence" the Palestinians display.

Then you have chosen what to become.
isreal has become a monster to fight the monster.
still a monster

[Andrew_980]

Israel was created in 1948 :)) That's after World War 2

So if they hadn't stop the mass killings of jews, do you think there would BE an isreal?

[The Bos'un]

Obama is not liberal enough? Al Qaeda does not like him either.

[Andrew_980]

It is a bad thing that we assume non-religious people are automatically liberal.

Yeah, i thought that it was the enemy that had a knee jerk reaction to go after the infedel.....

[nofear2]

Then you have chosen what to become.
isreal has become a monster to fight the monster.
still a monster

If that's the only way to defend my people then call me a monster. Means little to nothing.
As I said before, you will never understand the burden of a soldier.

[Andrew_980]

Obama is not liberal enough?

I am not liberal

Unless valuing human life is antithetical to conservitives outside the womb.

[The Bos'un]

No knee jerking here. I suspected that you were more politically attuned to change..... If you do not like Obama, why?

[nofear2]

So if they hadn't stop the mass killings of jews, do you think there would BE an isreal?
Hindsight is always 20/20
Theoretically speaking there could have been. What makes you think that there were no Jews living in the Arab world.

[Andrew_980]

If that's the only way to defend my people then call me a monster. Means little to nothing.
As I said before, you will never understand the burden of a soldier.

And you will never understand anything beyond violence, never understand the very notion of good,peace or love.
I pity you.

[Andrew_980]

No knee jerking here. I suspected that you were more politically attuned to change..... If you do not like Obama, why?

The change i want is nothing that he stands for.

[nofear2]

And you will never understand anything beyond violence, never understand the very notion of good,peace or love.
I pity you.
Actually I have very close ties with the Arab community.

[The Bos'un]

Your rap kind of sounds somewhat peaceful and sensitively liberal to me.

[Andrew_980]

Actually I have very close ties with the Arab community.

But your own words say otherwise.

[The Bos'un]

What change do you want?

[nofear2]

And you will never understand anything beyond violence, never understand the very notion of good,peace or love.
I pity you.

We live in a different world you and I - I live in a world I hope to G-d that you will never live in. I'll admit that there are times that I am still haunted by people I have harmed or the lives which I have taken. My only comfort is that in stead of giving the bullet to one of my people he will have taken it instead.

[Andrew_980]

Your rap kind of sounds somewhat peaceful and sensitively liberal to me.

Yeah, peacefull to the innocent. the guilty can be crucified and boiled in oil for all i care. A love of a properly applied death penalty and laws allowing self defense don't jive with the liberals though

[nofear2]

But your own words say otherwise.

Where do they say otherwise?

[Andrew_980]

We live in a different world you and I - I live in a world I hope to G-d that you will never live in. I'll admit that there are times that I am still haunted by people I have harmed or the lives which I have taken. My only comfort is that in stead of giving the bullet to one of my people he will have taken it instead.

Do you think their people do not suffer?
Hundreds dead
thousands wounded

Does their suffering count?
What of what they think they are doing for their people.
I think both are misguided.

[Andrew_980]

Where do they say otherwise?

That jewish life is more important, that all of these innocent casualties are better than the risk of isreali soldiers.

[nofear2]

Do you think their people do not suffer?
Hundreds dead
thousands wounded

Does their suffering count?
What of what they think they are doing for their people.
I think both are misguided.

I do not have an obligation to worry about them so long as they put my family at risk. If they had wanted to end their suffering let them oppose Hamas.

[Andrew_980]

What change do you want?

peace, safety, and liberty

What this country was meant to be.

[nofear2]

That jewish life is more important, that all of these innocent casualties are better than the risk of isreali soldiers.

That just means I love my own people more than I hate them.

[nofear2]

peace, safety, and liberty

What this country was meant to be.

No such thing as safety when your enemies want you dead.

[Andrew_980]

I do not have an obligation to worry about them so long as they put my family at risk. If they had wanted to end their suffering let them oppose Hamas.

Yes, damn those school children that were bombed for not stopping hamas.
They were such a risk to your family and all.

[Andrew_980]

No such thing as safety when your enemies want you dead.

There is no such thing as peace or liberty when you mistreat and kill the innocent.

[nofear2]

Yes, damn those school children that were bombed for not stopping hamas.
They were such a risk to your family and all.

What makes you say that they were the target?

[nofear2]

There is no such thing as peace or liberty when you mistreat and kill the innocent.

Then your aspirations are a mere dream which you may never live to see.

[The Bos'un]

Yeah, peacefull to the innocent. the guilty can be crucified and boiled in oil for all i care. A love of a properly applied death penalty and laws allowing self defense don't jive with the liberals though
To me, it sounds like you are fighting an inner battle between your idealism, socially conscious, and upbringings with the reality of present day society. It is difficult for me to follow your notions. What exactly are your rules and limitations?

[Andrew_980]

That just means I love my own people more than I hate them.

It means that no amount of dead children is worth risking soldiers. monstrous.
We could have done the same in our wars by nuking them and calling it a day, but we want to be the good guy. sacrifice to be good is better than atrocity to save your own.

[gpd®]

peace, safety, and liberty

What this country was meant to be.

Is there precedence in history where those things didn't come without paying a steep price, namely humans lives?

[The Bos'un]

You profess that Israelis are wrong to protect themselves?

[nofear2]

It means that no amount of dead children is worth risking soldiers. monstrous.
We could have done the same in our wars by nuking them and calling it a day, but we want to be the good guy. sacrifice to be good is better than atrocity to save your own.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are witness to your above mentioned statement.

[Andrew_980]

To me, it sounds like you are fighting an inner battle between your idealism, socially conscious, and upbringings with the reality of present day society. It is difficult for me to follow your notions. What exactly are your rules and limitations?

That the guilty be stopped and the innocent protected. what is so hard to understand about that.

[The Bos'un]

There appears to be some clinks in your armor. What do you believe, my friend?

[Andrew_980]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are witness to your above mentioned statement.

i cannot agree that that was a moral choice either.

[nofear2]

That the guilty be stopped and the innocent protected. what is so hard to understand about that.

Do you believe in a concept called responsibility? That one reaps what one sows?

[The Bos'un]

Who are the innocent and who are the guilty?

[Andrew_980]

There appears to be some clinks in your armor. What do you believe, my friend?

I do not have time to type a comprehensive list of my beliefs.
but protecting the innocent is at the core.