Kindler, gentler, america? Oh my...

[Penny in WV]

Saw a story on Fox this morning talking about teachers grading papers with red pens. Did anyone else see it?

Teachers who grade papers with red pens are scaring the children. Oh me, oh my.

[roger teekell]

Saw a story on Fox this morning talking about teachers grading papers with red pens. Did anyone else see it?

Teachers who grade papers with red pens are scaring the children. Oh me, oh my.

Really??!!

In elementary school they used to put a big RED "F" at the top of my paper...

Then send it home to my dad to be signed....

Only happened ONCE!!!:eek:

[Penny in WV]

Really??!!

In elementary school they used to put a big RED "F" at the top of my paper...

Then send it home to my dad to be signed....

Only happened ONCE!!!:eek:

___________________

Took your mind off the red ink, didn't it...LOL

Isn't this just sad though. Our kids don't stand a chance. No red ink, but teach them to attack armed intruders...what's happening to our society?

[TheLibertarianGuy]

Another step in the ongoing Wussification of America Program...

[AmericanSpirit]

Saw a story on Fox this morning talking about teachers grading papers with red pens. Did anyone else see it?

Teachers who grade papers with red pens are scaring the children. Oh me, oh my.

They deserve a good scaring if their paper is full of red ink and big fat "F" at the top.

[MendacityDestructor]

This sounds very Un-American. Red is a great color (see old glory)!

[dru]

I don't really think this policy is necessary, but I also can't for the life of me understand why anyone would have a problem with it either. What, specifically, do you people who seem so opposed to this policy dislike about it (other than the obvious refrain of "the wussification of America")? I mean, do you really think using a color other than red will do any actual harm to anyone? Or do you just enjoy getting ticked off about random unimportant things?

[TheLibertarianGuy]

I don't really think this policy is necessary, but I also can't for the life of me understand why anyone would have a problem with it either. What, specifically, do you people who seem so opposed to this policy dislike about it (other than the obvious refrain of "the wussification of America")? I mean, do you really think using a color other than red will do any actual harm to anyone? Or do you just enjoy getting ticked off about random unimportant things?

Some schools give trophies to every member of a sports team, so as to not make any of the players feel inferior. Some schools have given up on the valedictorian awards, because it makes lesser-accomplished students feel inferior.

This is just another step in that twisted thinking process.

[deester]

Yep, that big red 'F' scared me...with good reason:D

[buflineks]

Okay. I heard about this also.

This semester I turned in two rough drafts of my major research paper and each time it came back with red ink on it. I personally find it easy to read the notes and corrections that way ( especially the grammatical mistakes. Hey, I'm an historian not an English major)

I wonder how many things I would have missed if the instructor had marked in black rather than red? Or even blue?

to be honest, the read pen makes it easier to find the corrections. If a person has a problem with red being all over their paper, then perhaps someone needs to sit them down on their blanky and give them some cookies and milk.

[RayMan]

Okay. I heard about this also.

This semester I turned in two rough drafts of my major research paper and each time it came back with red ink on it. I personally find it easy to read the notes and corrections that way ( especially the grammatical mistakes. Hey, I'm an historian not an English major)

I wonder how many things I would have missed if the instructor had marked in black rather than red? Or even blue?

to be honest, the read pen makes it easier to find the corrections. If a person has a problem with red being all over their paper, then perhaps someone needs to sit them down on their blanky and give them some cookies and milk.

Hey buf. :D

[buflineks]

Hey buf. :D

see.:redface:

[Polkfan]

As a note, the piece in question (I read about it elsewhere) was from New Zealand.

[Penny in WV]

I don't know if this started in the UK, but it is here now. Here's a couple comments from US teachers.

When it comes to correcting papers and grading tests, purple is emerging as the new red.

"If you see a whole paper of red, it looks pretty frightening," said Sharon Carlson, a health and physical education teacher at John F. Kennedy Middle School in Northampton. "Purple stands out, but it doesn't look as scary as red."

And

"I do not use red," said Robin Slipakoff, who teaches second and third grades at Mirror Lake Elementary School in Plantation, Fla. "Red has a negative connotation, and we want to promote self-confidence. I like purple. I use purple a lot."

On the subject of correcting spellings this is taken from a school policy document on marking children’s work.

“All spelling, punctuation and grammar errors are not marked in every piece of writing but will be noted as a future teaching point. However, where punctuation, grammar or spelling is a curricular target then children will be expected to attempt to meet their current target and meet previous targets: e.g. when an adult feels that a child can correct a spelling he or she will circle the part of the word the child has spelt incorrectly in order for them to attempt to correct it."


Oh me, oh my. On the same news program, they also said that some of the history literature being taught is incorrect. I didn't write down any of the names of the books, but they said you would be able to tell when you read the part about Reagan.

I also heard they are going to stop teaching about the holocaust because it is so violent.

This all just troubles me...mind conditioning starts with the children and it "scares" me when I think about the future.

[dru]

Some schools give trophies to every member of a sports team, so as to not make any of the players feel inferior. Some schools have given up on the valedictorian awards, because it makes lesser-accomplished students feel inferior.

This is just another step in that twisted thinking process.
Yes, I understand that. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Please explain to me what harm it does to kids to give every member of the team a trophy instead of just the MVP?

And I just don't think there are a whole lot of schools who give up on valedictorian awards. Many have multiple ones but that has a lot more to do with grade inflation and like 10-15 kids graduating with the maximum GPA, not with "the wussification of America."

But what I'm trying to get at here is, what explicit negative effects do you feel come from this? Do you think kids no longer strive to do well because of these policies? Because I just don't see that happening.

[sgdp]

Schools are also getting rid of the letter grade "F". Some are replacing it with "E", and if you don't get it up to a "D" by the end of the semester, it goes down to an "F".

Wait. What?! I have no idea what I just said, but I stand behind it 110%.

[Mimiheart]

Fail!!!!

[buflineks]

Oh me, oh my. On the same news program, they also said that some of the history literature being taught is incorrect. I didn't write down any of the names of the books, but they said you would be able to tell when you read the part about Reagan.

They are probably reading the Juhnke Text. Revisionist history.
I hear that it's quite big back east and in CA.

[Penny in WV]

Yes, I understand that. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Please explain to me what harm it does to kids to give every member of the team a trophy instead of just the MVP?

And I just don't think there are a whole lot of schools who give up on valedictorian awards. Many have multiple ones but that has a lot more to do with grade inflation and like 10-15 kids graduating with the maximum GPA, not with "the wussification of America."

But what I'm trying to get at here is, what explicit negative effects do you feel come from this? Do you think kids no longer strive to do well because of these policies? Because I just don't see that happening.

___________________________________

This is one of the reasons I find this "red" ink controversary so troubling. It is just another thing changing because kids are not held accountable for their actions and their lack of desire to improve.

First off, you shouldn't have anything given to you that you haven't earned. With this practice, kids automatically feel they deserve something when they have put forth very little effort to earn it. When they enter into the "real" world, they will not be given "do overs," and will have to earn everything from that point forward. The red ink issue is just another type of kindler, gentler, America that is turning our kids into people who feel they deserve things instead of feeling they need to earn them. The kids are crying over every little rule and procedure and when some, and I mean "some" of them can't handle it and refuse to listen...the rules are changed because psycho babble excuses of their "feelings." I feel this is a contributing factor with the high sucide rate with teens.

When I was young, I had to try out for my school basketball team. I practiced my little heart out. I even practiced "running," so I could become faster. The reason I did this was because I was striving to be the best and EARN the title of a "good" ball player and achieve the rank of a "letter" for my jacket. If these children are handed these things, without putting forth an effort to become the best they can be, then there is no reason, absolutely none, for them to strive to become any better because in the end...they will get their trophy anyway. I ask you, if there is a kid putting forth the effort, why should his/her recognition be the same as the ones who don't?

The discipline and accountability factors are almost gone. If you haven't recognized it, next time a teen waits on you at a restaurant or in a store, pay attention. Pay attention to the children shopping with their parents or out eating dinner at a restaurant, whining and screaming and hitting their parents. This truly does carry over to other things.

[TheLibertarianGuy]

Yes, I understand that. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Please explain to me what harm it does to kids to give every member of the team a trophy instead of just the MVP?

And I just don't think there are a whole lot of schools who give up on valedictorian awards. Many have multiple ones but that has a lot more to do with grade inflation and like 10-15 kids graduating with the maximum GPA, not with "the wussification of America."

But what I'm trying to get at here is, what explicit negative effects do you feel come from this? Do you think kids no longer strive to do well because of these policies? Because I just don't see that happening.

Check out this crap from Pittsburgh PA (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-69/1228998543273510.xml&storylist=penn), toying with an idea that every kid gets "50%" no matter how little work the kid does or how poorly the work IS done.

That kind of thinking - and the "let's give every kid a trophy so the poorer-skilled players don't feel sad" mentality - are no way to teach kids to strive and achieve.

[dru]

Check out this crap from Pittsburgh PA (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-69/1228998543273510.xml&storylist=penn), toying with an idea that every kid gets "50%" no matter how little work the kid does or how poorly the work IS done.

That kind of thinking - and the "let's give every kid a trophy so the poorer-skilled players don't feel sad" mentality - are no way to teach kids to strive and achieve.
I think you're overstating the problem in a big way though. I really don't think these few boneheaded policies (although I don't think recognizing every member of a team instead of just the best players is one of them) means that kids are no longer striving to do their best.

[dru]

___________________________________

This is one of the reasons I find this "red" ink controversary so troubling. It is just another thing changing because kids are not held accountable for their actions and their lack of desire to improve.

First off, you shouldn't have anything given to you that you haven't earned. With this practice, kids automatically feel they deserve something when they have put forth very little effort to earn it. When they enter into the "real" world, they will not be given "do overs," and will have to earn everything from that point forward. The red ink issue is just another type of kindler, gentler, America that is turning our kids into people who feel they deserve things instead of feeling they need to earn them. The kids are crying over every little rule and procedure and when some, and I mean "some" of them can't handle it and refuse to listen...the rules are changed because psycho babble excuses of their "feelings." I feel this is a contributing factor with the high sucide rate with teens.

When I was young, I had to try out for my school basketball team. I practiced my little heart out. I even practiced "running," so I could become faster. The reason I did this was because I was striving to be the best and EARN the title of a "good" ball player and achieve the rank of a "letter" for my jacket. If these children are handed these things, without putting forth an effort to become the best they can be, then there is no reason, absolutely none, for them to strive to become any better because in the end...they will get their trophy anyway. I ask you, if there is a kid putting forth the effort, why should his/her recognition be the same as the ones who don't?

The discipline and accountability factors are almost gone. If you haven't recognized it, next time a teen waits on you at a restaurant or in a store, pay attention. Pay attention to the children shopping with their parents or out eating dinner at a restaurant, whining and screaming and hitting their parents. This truly does carry over to other things.
You're being melodramatic. I don't see how using a green pen instead of a red one = giving kids "hand outs" that they haven't earned. I think you're overstating the issue.

[Penny in WV]

You're being melodramatic. I don't see how using a green pen instead of a red one = giving kids "hand outs" that they haven't earned. I think you're overstating the issue.

____________________________

You are entitled to your opinion. I find it troubling and think this is just another set back for our children. Like removing the pledge and prayer. Look where we are now.

Don't let the kids dress up in costumes for Thanksgiving, but take them to Gay weddings for a field trip, not letting them participate in JROTC program, yeah, and now red ink. Oh me, oh my.

[TheLibertarianGuy]

I think you're overstating the problem in a big way though. I really don't think these few boneheaded policies (although I don't think recognizing every member of a team instead of just the best players is one of them) means that kids are no longer striving to do their best.

If you'd read the article link, you wouldn't be saying "overstating the problem".

[RWReaganfan]

Schools are also getting rid of the letter grade "F". Some are replacing it with "E", and if you don't get it up to a "D" by the end of the semester, it goes down to an "F".

Wait. What?! I have no idea what I just said, but I stand behind it 110%.


I gave up on grading in red last year after it was noted in my annual review. Why fight it if you cannot win? I use green pens instead. Not a single kid has ever asked why I don't use red.

My school system has also substituted "U" for "F".

[angelicmadrigal]

to be honest, the read pen makes it easier to find the corrections. If a person has a problem with red being all over their paper, then perhaps someone needs to sit them down on their blanky and give them some cookies and milk.

Personally I ignore the corrections no matter what color they are in. My opinion on it is it is MY paper, my intellectual property and it will be EXACTLY how _I_ would like it. To me taking a B or C on a paper instead of an A was always fine with me because it was 100% MINE.

[dru]

If you'd read the article link, you wouldn't be saying "overstating the problem".
I read the article. It says nothing about giving kids handouts for free. That makes no sense. It is possible to hold an opinion about something without dramatically overstating your case to make it sound better. I don't think this policy makes much sense. That's what I thought about it when it was first brought up in an education class I was in, but that doesn't mean it's an illustration of everything wrong with the education system, or that it's going to hurt kids to enact this policy though.

[dru]

Personally I ignore the corrections no matter what color they are in. My opinion on it is it is MY paper, my intellectual property and it will be EXACTLY how _I_ would like it. To me taking a B or C on a paper instead of an A was always fine with me because it was 100% MINE.
Wow. That's the kind of attitude that will allow you to go through life never learning to get better at anything.

[247]

I don't really think this policy is necessary, but I also can't for the life of me understand why anyone would have a problem with it either. What, specifically, do you people who seem so opposed to this policy dislike about it (other than the obvious refrain of "the wussification of America")? I mean, do you really think using a color other than red will do any actual harm to anyone? Or do you just enjoy getting ticked off about random unimportant things?

On the flip side, why would anyone have an issue that needs them to change from red to some other color? Do you think the color red will do any actual harm to anyone?

[angelicmadrigal]

Wow.
I don't write for the pleasure of others, period.


That's the kind of attitude that will allow you to go through life never learning to get better at anything.

I'm good enough for what I need to do. I"m not a professional writer, nor do I intend to be. I would also like to point out that everyoen around here seem to understand my writing just fine? So, I don't really need to be any better do I?

[SalemsLot211]

If the color red scares these people, the real world will be absolutely horrifiying.

[Gixugif]

Schools are also getting rid of the letter grade "F". Some are replacing it with "E", and if you don't get it up to a "D" by the end of the semester, it goes down to an "F".

Wait. What?! I have no idea what I just said, but I stand behind it 110%.

I can totally agree with this. "E" has been missing from our grading system for too long. I mean, "A", "B", "C", "D", "F"!?? We're teaching kids the wrong alphabet!

[Cav Scout]

Wow. That's the kind of attitude that will allow you to go through life never learning to get better at anything.

Actually you are 180 off.

He who never gets anything but a perfect score never ever improves.

[spinach]

Saw a story on Fox this morning talking about teachers grading papers with red pens. Did anyone else see it?

Teachers who grade papers with red pens are scaring the children. Oh me, oh my.


give me a break.
They use red because the color attracts the most attention, so that the student won't miss seeing where the errors are.

I think kids are more in danger of being indoctrinated with liberal idiocy than being threatened with 'red ink'.

[RogerDodger]

Check out this crap from Pittsburgh PA (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-69/1228998543273510.xml&storylist=penn), toying with an idea that every kid gets "50%" no matter how little work the kid does or how poorly the work IS done.



That reminds me of way back when I took the SAT. You got a minimum number of points just for putting your name on the test. I never understood the purpose of that. I wonder if it is still that way.

[pubschteacher]

Many of you have said that teachers do not listen to parents and that that is an issue.
Red ink
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7374218/

As far as the grading scale goes, the logic is that the grading scale is overly punishing. For example, let’s say that a student has three assignments, they ace the first two 100 percent on both, but just didn't do the other assignment
200 points total, 66 percent average at this point. But the work they have done has shown proficiency. Now, should they be dinged to a D for the one missing paper, maybe, but I would bet that many of you would defend your child and their two 100 percent papers, others would say that you get what you deserve, and you should have done the work.
The solution is not to get rid of the zero, change the grading scale.
5 A
4 B
3 C
2 D
1 F
0
Same scenario, two 5's and a 0
10 points, 3 assignments, 3.3 grade point, a middle C
The student is punished for not doing the work, but not destroyed by it.

It's amazing to me how many people in here continually scream for reform in education, but try to change anything, even red ink and everyone starts screaming "It was good enough for me, it's good enough for kids today"
HIIIIlarious.

[PhantomPholly]

When America was still strong parents used to respond to poor grades by inflicting minor red welts on the backside. Performance generally improved, and no one took issue with it. Now we are "concerned" with the use of red ink, and performance is dropping with almost mathematical relation to our "fear of traumatizing the children."

[markdido]

Yes, I understand that. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Please explain to me what harm it does to kids to give every member of the team a trophy instead of just the MVP?

And I just don't think there are a whole lot of schools who give up on valedictorian awards. Many have multiple ones but that has a lot more to do with grade inflation and like 10-15 kids graduating with the maximum GPA, not with "the wussification of America."

But what I'm trying to get at here is, what explicit negative effects do you feel come from this? Do you think kids no longer strive to do well because of these policies? Because I just don't see that happening.

Because when the little darlins graduate college in 5 years (the first year taking "remedial" Engish and math classes) join the work force and get bitch-slapped by their employer for poor performance or not meeting a deadline, they will realize that in the real-world, there are winners and losers and their boss doesn't want to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with them.

[RWReaganfan]

Because when the little darlins graduate college in 5 years (the first year taking "remedial" Engish and math classes) join the work force and get bitch-slapped by their employer for poor performance or not meeting a deadline, they will realize that in the real-world, there are winners and losers and their boss doesn't want to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with them.

No! Bitch-slapping only occurs in the Navy, didn't you know that?

LCDR, USN and USNR (1978-2001)

[markdido]

No! Bitch-slapping only occurs in the Navy, didn't you know that?

LCDR, USN and USNR (1978-2001)

I do remember being roused out of my rack at O-dark-thirty on several occasions by "cat-fights" between the COMM guys on one of our mighty amphibious warships..... ;)