Fighting Piracy may hit Children hardest

[genius]

I was just reading a heartbreaking AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCRkrQxbXdCbH0TfHp3oGe_2W1KAD94IB2F00) about how much good the pirates and the ransom money are doing for the local economy in the pirate dens. According to a local, who a is 36yo mother of 5: "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.

[sgtmac_46]

I was just reading a heartbreaking AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCRkrQxbXdCbH0TfHp3oGe_2W1KAD94IB2F00) about how much good the pirates and the ransom money are doing for the local economy in the pirate dens. According to a local, who a is 36yo mother of 5: "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.

That money is used to ensure their base of operations. That is why those communities are complicit, and why PUNITIVE EXPEDITIONS are called for to destroy their bases of operations!

[Cav Scout]

Yes earlier there was thread as well about how fighting piracy on the seas was a waste of taxpayer dollars...etc.
Amazing the pure lack of a clue some folks have about the general welfare of the trade lanes and what happens if we just let shipping companies fend for themselves...

[The Bos'un]

Ya, some real robin hoods. Nothing some good technology can take care of, if one knows where they (the robin hoods) live.

[The Bos'un]

Yes earlier there was thread as well about how fighting piracy on the seas was a waste of taxpayer dollars...etc.
Amazing the pure lack of a clue some folks have about the general welfare of the trade lanes and what happens if we just let shipping companies fend for themselves...
Some of the civilian operators have been hired to provide security for some shipping. If the pirates try to hit those ships, they will be visiting Davy Jones quickly. Maybe the Saudis are going to wake up.

[Cav Scout]

Ya, some real robin hoods. Nothing some good technology can take care of, if one knows where they (the robin hoods) live.

Have Tomahawk, will travel..:D

[sgtmac_46]

Some of the civilian operators have been hired to provide security for some shipping. If the pirates try to hit those ships, they will be visiting Davy Jones quickly. Maybe the Saudis are going to wake up.

I wish I had connections, i'd start my own contracting company and hire some guys to ride shotgun! :))

[Bertha]

I was just reading a heartbreaking AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCRkrQxbXdCbH0TfHp3oGe_2W1KAD94IB2F00) about how much good the pirates and the ransom money are doing for the local economy in the pirate dens. According to a local, who a is 36yo mother of 5: "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.

Interesting how once again, these are muslims causing problems.

[The Bos'un]

It is A FEW muslims. We must be PC.

[Extricator]

Redistributing wealth

Where did the Somali Pirates get that idea ?:rolleyes:

[E7ALR]

I wish I had connections, i'd start my own contracting company and hire some guys to ride shotgun! :))I was thinking turn a moderate shipping container into a self contained ops shelter with berths, arms/munitions storage, supplies, etc for a heavily armed 15-20 man security detail. A ship owner contracts you, you deploy the team and container(s) to the ship prior to entering the hostile zone, have a large support ship with multiple teams and containers on each end of the route. Be able to lift the containers by crane or helo on and off the ships. Contract in advance with payment at time of deployment.....

I suspect that pirate open outboards would not do well against machine gun fire from above them.

[XTankLt]

I was just reading a heartbreaking AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCRkrQxbXdCbH0TfHp3oGe_2W1KAD94IB2F00) about how much good the pirates and the ransom money are doing for the local economy in the pirate dens. According to a local, who a is 36yo mother of 5: "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.

Are you being sarcastic? I hope so. There was no rolleyes icon :rolleyes:


Anyway, anyone who advocates this AP logic needs to get their head examined.

I guess we hated the African children in Tribes who dealt with the slave trade in the early 1800's too when we did slave trade interdiction?

http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/war1812/const8.htm

[nate24168]

This is the smoking gun Warren Buffet wants to, and promotes being blown out of proportion so under the slide of hand US troops will be sent to Africa to take on war lords :rolleyes:. Our troops will be used to fight a civil war at our cost to benefit Warren Buffet wanting to be the great white hope.


Anyone else smell the BS yet. In the heat of mid summer that pile will be to ripe to miss.

[geauxtohell]

Under maritime law, can the Navy still hang pirates from the yard arm?

Just wondering what the point of being in the Navy is if you can't hang pirates from the yard arms.

No offense to those of you who have served in the Navy for the last 250+ years.

[sgtmac_46]

I was thinking turn a moderate shipping container into a self contained ops shelter with berths, arms/munitions storage, supplies, etc for a heavily armed 15-20 man security detail. A ship owner contracts you, you deploy the team and container(s) to the ship prior to entering the hostile zone, have a large support ship with multiple teams and containers on each end of the route. Be able to lift the containers by crane or helo on and off the ships. Contract in advance with payment at time of deployment.....

I suspect that pirate open outboards would not do well against machine gun fire from above them. :think:

[sgtmac_46]

Redistributing wealth

Where did the Somali Pirates get that idea ?:rolleyes:

Leftists have to hide behind government to rob people. I have more respect for the Pirates......at least they use a gun to rob people and look them in the eye while they do it.

[crux]

Fighting Piracy may hit Children Hardest

Pirates stole my Christmas Wii

How do you get techno-obsessives to notice a foreign conflict? Threaten their gadget supply

http://www.eaglespeak.us/2008/11/pirates-of-somalia-asymmetric-warfare.html

[Cav Scout]

I was thinking turn a moderate shipping container into a self contained ops shelter with berths, arms/munitions storage, supplies, etc for a heavily armed 15-20 man security detail. A ship owner contracts you, you deploy the team and container(s) to the ship prior to entering the hostile zone, have a large support ship with multiple teams and containers on each end of the route. Be able to lift the containers by crane or helo on and off the ships. Contract in advance with payment at time of deployment.....

I suspect that pirate open outboards would not do well against machine gun fire from above them.

Not a bad idea.

[crux]

I was thinking turn a moderate shipping container into a self contained ops shelter with berths, arms/munitions storage, supplies, etc for a heavily armed 15-20 man security detail. A ship owner contracts you, you deploy the team and container(s) to the ship prior to entering the hostile zone, have a large support ship with multiple teams and containers on each end of the route. Be able to lift the containers by crane or helo on and off the ships. Contract in advance with payment at time of deployment.....

I suspect that pirate open outboards would not do well against machine gun fire from above them.

Modern day q-ships
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/rnqships.htm





:cool:

[crux]

Under maritime law, can the Navy still hang pirates from the yard arm?

Just wondering what the point of being in the Navy is if you can't hang pirates from the yard arms.

No offense to those of you who have served in the Navy for the last 250+ years.

I favor bringing back the Keelhaul :)

[geauxtohell]

I favor bringing back the Keelhaul :)

Yeah, but there is always the prospect that a pirate might survive a keelhaul.

They might wish they were dead, but they could still survive.

Than again, in the age of prop driven ships. you'd have to deal with rope and entrails getting wrapped around the drive shaft.

Than some poor seaman is going to have to clean it up.

[Cav Scout]

Yeah, but there is always the prospect that a pirate might survive a keelhaul.

They might wish they were dead, but they could still survive.

Than again, in the age of prop driven ships. you'd have to deal with rope and entrails getting wrapped around the drive shaft.

Than some poor seaman is going to have to clean it up.

Thats why their seaman....
Kinda like painting the boat....:D

[crux]

They might wish they were dead, but they could still survive.

It's a feature... not a flaw. ;)

[Mortis]

Make sure you send me an application. I know I can still field strip a M-240

[genius]

if a warship were to intercept aa alleged pirateship on the high seas, what could they do? sink it preemptively? it would be very hard to prove the intent to commit piracy, they could say they are on a pleasure cruise and are only so heavily armed because of the reports of pirates in the area. You would have to catch them in the act and even then if they flee, should the navy sink the fleeing pirateships, that are in no way threatening anymore, wouldnt that be exessive force?
If shipping companys hire armed guards, who shoot at and kill pirates, you would see lawyers suing the shipping companies, claiming the victims were just traders, who only tried to sell something, but the contractors on board lost their nerves and shot without cause. Ofcourse the victims' families and witnesses would then come to the USA on visas that allow them to appear in court, and who knows if they ever leave again.
If the pirates were caught, say by the US navy and you convicted them in some kind of court, dont you think a few decades in a US prison hotel or even club gitmo are so much worse than life in some destitute east african village without electricity and not having enough to eat? In club gitmo they would be well fed and get good healthcare, so even the worst prospect of getting caught and convicted still results in a better life than what they could expect without piracy.

[chichimama]

Under maritime law, can the Navy still hang pirates from the yard arm?

Just wondering what the point of being in the Navy is if you can't hang pirates from the yard arms.

No offense to those of you who have served in the Navy for the last 250+ years.

:lol: No, unfortunately. We'd lock them in the brig on the ship. Of course, accidents have been known to happen where people fall down ladderwells, hit their heads and later die. ;)

[chichimama]

I wish I had connections, i'd start my own contracting company and hire some guys to ride shotgun! :))

Let's go! Can I send you my resume? :D

- Ship's Self Defense Force (qualified firearms 9mm, M16, M60 and shotgun)
- Advanced Damage Control qualified (shipboard fire fighter and flooding control)

[Mohawk5]

The pirates have a hideout?

BOOOOMMMM!!!!!

[Claymore]

Redistributing wealth

Where did the Somali Pirates get that idea ?:rolleyes:




The Somali DNC?

[crux]

if a warship were to intercept aa alleged pirateship on the high seas, what could they do? sink it preemptively? it would be very hard to prove the intent to commit piracy, they could say they are on a pleasure cruise and are only so heavily armed because of the reports of pirates in the area. You would have to catch them in the act and even then if they flee, should the navy sink the fleeing pirateships, that are in no way threatening anymore, wouldnt that be exessive force?
If shipping companys hire armed guards, who shoot at and kill pirates, you would see lawyers suing the shipping companies, claiming the victims were just traders, who only tried to sell something, but the contractors on board lost their nerves and shot without cause. Ofcourse the victims' families and witnesses would then come to the USA on visas that allow them to appear in court, and who knows if they ever leave again.
If the pirates were caught, say by the US navy and you convicted them in some kind of court, dont you think a few decades in a US prison hotel or even club gitmo are so much worse than life in some destitute east african village without electricity and not having enough to eat? In club gitmo they would be well fed and get good healthcare, so even the worst prospect of getting caught and convicted still results in a better life than what they could expect without piracy.

Here's a good article on "international laws" regarding piracy

http://www.eaglespeak.us/2008/11/pirates-and-law-what-law.html

You come across the same problems when trying to fight asymmetrical war as a crime problem.

[E7ALR]

Modern day q-ships
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/rnqships.htm





:cool:I have been considering this myself. It would seem that the best method would be to equip a small freighter or container ship. Harden its engineering, fuel and control spaces. Remote the bridge controls to deep within a sealed portion of the vessel. Make the passages into a trap maze. As the pirates are not using actual warships, I would think Russian 23mm cannons for dealing with speed boats and for wrecking the upper decks of mother ships would work fine. Also a short range small torpedo capability for holing and sinking the mother ships after disabling them with cannon fire.

Let the pirates think thay are attacking a lone pidgeon, only to find out that it is really a wolf. Allow them to make the first aggressive move (their demand that you stop and allow them to attempt to board) then blow their small boats away with cannon fire, close with and rake their mother ship with fire until it is nothing but a drifting, burning hulk, torpedo it and leave them to the mercy of the sea. Any who make it onto your decks should be shot and thrown into the sea. Afterwards you can hose off you decks for a smart, ship shape appearance.:D

[RickRhetoric]

Oogedy-boogedy Obama could stop piracy if he would give Somalia 10 trillion dollars in exchange for not resorting to piracy.

[E7ALR]

Not a bad idea.I think it could work as a business model. I suspect the average cruse is about 7 days to clear the danger zone if just passing through. Figure a standard fee of $50,000 for a one container and a 10 man team for seven days. $100,000 for a 20 man team for one week. 25 basic teams at 44 weeks per year (assuming 8 week vacation per year) = $110 million gross revenue per year. assuming the cost of purchasing and equipping the containers, arms, and overhead. Plus a $2,000 per week salary for junior team member (6 ea) and a $3,000 per week for fire team leader, $4,000 per week for Assistant Security Team Leader, $5,000 per week for Security Team Leader. Total team salary per week $27k, residual for operations and profit $23,000 per week. Figure 50 million for start up, should be profitable in 3 years.

[roger teekell]

I was just reading a heartbreaking AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCRkrQxbXdCbH0TfHp3oGe_2W1KAD94IB2F00) about how much good the pirates and the ransom money are doing for the local economy in the pirate dens. According to a local, who a is 36yo mother of 5: "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.

My first thought was why a POOR woman in Somalia has FIVE children..

I mean I know WHY...But why?

[chichimama]

My first thought was why a POOR woman in Somalia has FIVE children..

I mean I know WHY...But why?

Because the men don't take "no" for an answer?

[Cav Scout]

I think it could work as a business model. I suspect the average cruse is about 7 days to clear the danger zone if just passing through. Figure a standard fee of $50,000 for a one container and a 10 man team for seven days. $100,000 for a 20 man team for one week. 25 basic teams at 44 weeks per year (assuming 8 week vacation per year) = $110 million gross revenue per year. assuming the cost of purchasing and equipping the containers, arms, and overhead. Plus a $2,000 per week salary for junior team member (6 ea) and a $3,000 per week for fire team leader, $4,000 per week for Assistant Security Team Leader, $5,000 per week for Security Team Leader. Total team salary per week $27k, residual for operations and profit $23,000 per week. Figure 50 million for start up, should be profitable in 3 years.

So all we need is some investors...

[Mortis]

So all we need is some investors...

I'm smart enough for a top slot in that business model, but I'd very happily be a drone with a M-4.

[Reev]

Interesting how once again, these are muslims causing problems.

I don't think the fact they are are Muslim has anything to do with the piracy. Thats a pretty silly statement.

[E7ALR]

So all we need is some investors...I think so....
As a marketing point, we can do a cost analysis of the increased insurance premiums and additional costs of taking longer routes to avoid the pirate zone versus the purchase of a Sea Tarantula (Reg TM) security contract. The contract should provide a legimate mitigation measure that can be quantified in insurance premium savings on both cargo and vessel.

[E7ALR]

I'm smart enough for a top slot in that business model, but I'd very happily be a drone with a M-4.As part of the job description of senior executives, one transit every six months, as a working member of a team would be required. The purpose of this requirement is that senior leadership will maintain a thorough understanding of the conditions teams operate under and maintain a high degree of espre de corps in the organization essential to maintaing good employee relations within a paramilitary corporation.

[crux]

I think so....
As a marketing point, we can do a cost analysis of the increased insurance premiums and additional costs of taking longer routes to avoid the pirate zone versus the purchase of a Sea Tarantula (Reg TM) security contract. The contract should provide a legimate mitigation measure that can be quantified in insurance premium savings on both cargo and vessel.

Sea Tarantula! I love it. That's destined for great marketing. Spiders eat bugs... we destroy pirates..talk to your local insurance agent for more details. :)

[E7ALR]

Sea Tarantula! I love it. That's destined for great marketing. Spiders eat bugs... we destroy pirates..talk to your local insurance agent for more details. :)I'm thinking a filthy roach with an eye patch and a Tarantula on steroids with dark glasses and an M-60. Slogan: Pirates bugging you, we know what to do.:cool:

[Jíbaro]

I was just reading a heartbreaking AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCRkrQxbXdCbH0TfHp3oGe_2W1KAD94IB2F00) about how much good the pirates and the ransom money are doing for the local economy in the pirate dens. According to a local, who a is 36yo mother of 5: "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.
:)):)):))
Welcome to the Brave New World of DЭMOCЯAT Propaganda.
The only thing is that when the UN follows through and lets Pirates perform their social duties, it will stop being funny and will get downright scary.
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0008.gif

[Cav Scout]

I think so....
As a marketing point, we can do a cost analysis of the increased insurance premiums and additional costs of taking longer routes to avoid the pirate zone versus the purchase of a Sea Tarantula (Reg TM) security contract. The contract should provide a legimate mitigation measure that can be quantified in insurance premium savings on both cargo and vessel.

You are actually putting some thought into this aren't you?
Very nice.
I wonder what Loyds of London would have to say about such an endevor?

[sgtmac_46]

Let's go! Can I send you my resume? :D

- Ship's Self Defense Force (qualified firearms 9mm, M16, M60 and shotgun)
- Advanced Damage Control qualified (shipboard fire fighter and flooding control) We might just have a crew!

Blackwater has already jumped on board! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,444103,00.html

[sgtmac_46]

I think it could work as a business model. I suspect the average cruse is about 7 days to clear the danger zone if just passing through. Figure a standard fee of $50,000 for a one container and a 10 man team for seven days. $100,000 for a 20 man team for one week. 25 basic teams at 44 weeks per year (assuming 8 week vacation per year) = $110 million gross revenue per year. assuming the cost of purchasing and equipping the containers, arms, and overhead. Plus a $2,000 per week salary for junior team member (6 ea) and a $3,000 per week for fire team leader, $4,000 per week for Assistant Security Team Leader, $5,000 per week for Security Team Leader. Total team salary per week $27k, residual for operations and profit $23,000 per week. Figure 50 million for start up, should be profitable in 3 years. I'll send YOU my resume!

[GA_LP]

We might just have a crew!

Blackwater has already jumped on board! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,444103,00.html
You knew they would. They probably had calls before the news story broke.

[E7ALR]

You are actually putting some thought into this aren't you?
Very nice.
I wonder what Loyds of London would have to say about such an endevor?Can't help it, three different units I was with moved me from line leadership positions to operations staff (Once in Battalion S3 and twice to Brigade S3) for, as they put it, recognized organizational ability. Then DA did it twice with direct assignments, once to Bn Staff and then finally to a field army-forward staff. Only one of these was CONUS based, and all were tactical assignments. It just doesn't pay to bring too much attention to yourself.:lol:

I think Loyds and other marine insurers are very interested. Their history began as insurance for shipments and vessels. I would have to believe that the ability of a vessel to defend itself was a factor in the underwriting of a specific policy. I would expect Loyds to definately consider security as a matter for even putting a policy on a vessel/cargo. I think the shipping companies will look at it from a total cost position, with not only availability and cost of insurance, but also time, fuel and overhead costs. Security should also be a factor for those with cargo to ship willing to pay a premium to the shipping company for the added probability that their cargo will get through and do so on time.

It is most definately a valid business model. Still some important issues to be worked out, but a decent package could be put together with seed money, say 6 teams originally, plus about 12 support staff initially to run the business and man each end of the route.

I also have a plan for leveraging technology to allow the teams to be smaller, yet more lethal with less risk using automated strap on gun pods as part of the package.

We just need investors.

[EnchantedFrog]

Somalia has a GDP of $2.5B. (CIA Factbook) Maybe we should just BUY the entire country of Somalia from the current corrupt shamble of a government they have there, probably get it for chump-change. We put in military bases and luxury housing, high-rises, and resort hotels. Make it the United States answer to Dubai.

Ethiopia would love it, as they have been fighting off the AQ-loving warlords for some time. They would probably cooperate in rounding up all the local Imam wanna-be's that operate throughout Somalia. Consider that one of the foremost natural resources in Somalia is uranium and it becomes a national security coup as well.

[E7ALR]

Somalia has a GDP of $2.5B. (CIA Factbook) Maybe we should just BUY the entire country of Somalia from the current corrupt shamble of a government they have there, probably get it for chump-change. We put in military bases and luxury housing, high-rises, and resort hotels. Make it the United States answer to Dubai.

Ethiopia would love it, as they have been fighting off the AQ-loving warlords for some time. They would probably cooperate in rounding up all the local Imam wanna-be's that operate throughout Somalia. Consider that one of the foremost natural resources in Somalia is uranium and it becomes a national security coup as well.What it is time for is to stop just calling Somalia a failed state and start treating it as one. Give the far south to Kenya, give the middle to Ethopia and We take the North. They are not a country and breaking it up (basically a chapter 11 liquidation on the international scale) is the proper answer. They are not a nation, just a collection of minor tribes and thugs with no bonds to each other.

[Cav Scout]

Can't help it, three different units I was with moved me from line leadership positions to operations staff (Once in Battalion S3 and twice to Brigade S3) for, as they put it, recognized organizational ability. Then DA did it twice with direct assignments, once to Bn Staff and then finally to a field army-forward staff. Only one of these was CONUS based, and all were tactical assignments. It just doesn't pay to bring too much attention to yourself.:lol:

I think Loyds and other marine insurers are very interested. Their history began as insurance for shipments and vessels. I would have to believe that the ability of a vessel to defend itself was a factor in the underwriting of a specific policy. I would expect Loyds to definately consider security as a matter for even putting a policy on a vessel/cargo. I think the shipping companies will look at it from a total cost position, with not only availability and cost of insurance, but also time, fuel and overhead costs. Security should also be a factor for those with cargo to ship willing to pay a premium to the shipping company for the added probability that their cargo will get through and do so on time.

It is most definately a valid business model. Still some important issues to be worked out, but a decent package could be put together with seed money, say 6 teams originally, plus about 12 support staff initially to run the business and man each end of the route.

I also have a plan for leveraging technology to allow the teams to be smaller, yet more lethal with less risk using automated strap on gun pods as part of the package.

We just need investors.

We need to find them, I am due to retire here in a few months, and this would be a very nice new career!

[E7ALR]

We need to find them, I am due to retire here in a few months, and this would be a very nice new career!The trick I think would be to sell it to the shipping companies. They should be the easiest deep pockets to find with both desire and means for this to happen.

[sgtmac_46]

You knew they would. They probably has calls before the news story broke.

Yeah, I had no doubt......of course considering it was founded by ex-SEALS, maritime operations is a natural fit.

[sgtmac_46]

What it is time for is to stop just calling Somalia a failed state and start treating it as one. Give the far south to Kenya, give the middle to Ethopia and We take the North. They are not a country and breaking it up (basically a chapter 11 liquidation on the international scale) is the proper answer. They are not a nation, just a collection of minor tribes and thugs with no bonds to each other. EXCELLENT idea! :clap:

[TimeToRelax]

By 1783 America became solely responsible for the safety of its own commerce and citizens with the end of the American Revolution. Without the means or the authority to field a naval force necessary to protect their ships in the Mediterranean, the nascent U.S. government took a pragmatic, but ultimately self-destructive route. In 1784, the United States Congress allocated money for payment of tribute to the Barbary pirates and instructed her British and French ambassadors (John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, respectively) to look for opportunities to negotiate peace treaties with the Barbary nations. Unfortunately, the price demanded for these treaties far exceeded the amount that Congress had budgeted.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."


Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of State John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks

[nortman]

I favor bringing back the Keelhaul :)
Can you imagine if they still had keel hauling in today's navy. I would hate to be stationed on an aircraft carrier.

[RickRhetoric]

How could we in good conscience want to destroy their happiness? People, who want to stop piracy must be hating children.

Agreed.

Throughout history it has been the tradition of pirates to be romantic, socially aware, mischievous, gallant and cute -- they are the Democrats of today.

Why not just bring all the children to America?

[rhet 2]

By 1783 America became solely responsible for the safety of its own commerce and citizens with the end of the American Revolution. Without the means or the authority to field a naval force necessary to protect their ships in the Mediterranean, the nascent U.S. government took a pragmatic, but ultimately self-destructive route. In 1784, the United States Congress allocated money for payment of tribute to the Barbary pirates and instructed her British and French ambassadors (John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, respectively) to look for opportunities to negotiate peace treaties with the Barbary nations. Unfortunately, the price demanded for these treaties far exceeded the amount that Congress had budgeted.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."


Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of State John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks

Since getting that stolen tribute money is the entire purpose of the terrorism in the first place, yeah, paying up DOES encourage more of the same -- since you just PROVED that the terror tactic WORKS.

Same thing as caving in when a brat throws a temper tantrum.

The purpose of the tantrum is to TERRORIZE the adult into giving the kid what the kid demands.

If the tactic ACHIEVES THE KID'S DESIRES, you're going to find that kid using the same SUCCESSFUL tactic again and again, until the next demanded goodie sends him to the grave and relieves the victims of his torment and torture of the misery of his existence.

Pirates ARE TERRORISTS -- just like spoiled brats, they DEMAND and throw violent nasty hate-filled and destructive temper tantrums at the world around them until the rest of the world capitulates hoping they'll go away and leave us alone for awhile.

Since the tactic WORKS, they always come back to use it again to get the next whatever the hell they want, regardless of how destructive to themselves and everybody else that HABITUAL AND DISGUSTINGLY SUB_ADULT behavior becomes -- in ever increasingly violent cycles of destruction and anti-humanity.

Only Holly Freaking WEIRD would/could romanticize such vicious anti-social behaviors.

Instead, turn the brats over your knee and bust their butts for them. Demonstrate that the tactic gets the brats the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they demand -- and watch them hunt for a new tactic that WILL get them what they want, after all.

Socially destructive behaviors get the beasts destroyed.

Socially CONstructive behaviors get them what they NEED -- NOT what they WANT -- what they NEED -- need in order to continue developing and practicing socially constructive behaviors.

[TimeToRelax]

Put a patch over Hank Paulson's eye, and you have an "American" Pirate of the Highest Order ....

Who've we got to defend against such pirates ?